View Full Version : Advice needed - Feedback destroyers
Ok folks, as anyone who has been to an Empty Fortune or Duress pub gig lately may have noticed, Our PA sometimes feeds back due to the close proximity of amps, mics & speakers. was thinkin about buyin a feedback destroyer but want to find out if they are any good and if it would work on my PA head. Its a carlsbro Marlin PA amp/mixer combo thingy (im not good with techincal terms).
Ok folks, as anyone who has been to an Empty Fortune or Duress pub gig lately may have noticed, Our PA sometimes feeds back due to the close proximity of amps, mics & speakers. was thinkin about buyin a feedback destroyer but want to find out if they are any good and if it would work on my PA head. Its a carlsbro Marlin PA amp/mixer combo thingy (im not good with techincal terms).
I have two Berringers which I never use. You are welcome to borrow one and check it out.
I have two Berringers which I never use. You are welcome to borrow one and check it out.
Thatd be grand dude. Il be in contact with you shortly to borrow it.
Once again thanks very much
Chobbersjnr
02-Apr-07, 16:18
do you put your PA cabs on stands??????
Obviously the F/back dstroyer will help but it could be cut dramatically if your speakers are UP high
do you put your PA cabs on stands??????
Obviously the F/back dstroyer will help but it could be cut dramatically if your speakers are UP high
Ah-hah! No i dont actually. Usually plonk em on top of the nearest empty table in the bar. totally see where ur coming from tho. hmmmm of to ebay i shall trot to try acquire some cheap stands.
ok, went on ebay (thats where e boats sail into!) and purchased 2 high speaker stands and also got 2 SM58s to see if quality mics make a difference. will get back to gleber2 on the feedback destroyer next week if i still have probs with the sound.
Feedback destroyers are a good idea but they ultimately will degrade your signal path (by notch filtering certain frequencies out of the spectrum). I would advise that careful placement of mics speakers etc is always better to sort first, if possible. Feedback destroyers should be a last resort.
I always try and have the band as far behind the main PA speakers (for the audience to hear) as possible. As Chobbers suggests, get your High/Mid frequency speakers up high (the sound will also carry further so you don't need to be so loud).
Use angled floor monitors for the band to hear themselves with. (lots at low volume are better than few at high volume) Position your mics in direct line to the monitors. The pick-up pattern of typical mics will reject most sound from their back. Also try reducing some bass heavy frequencies may also help. Lots of trial and error depending on the instruments used is the key. Try cupping your hand on a microphone, does it start to feedback? If so, reduce its input gain or adjust its position or EQ. Every venue will also have different acoustic characteristics (hard or soft reflective surfaces etc).
It's a bit of a mind field, but eventually you'll learn what works better for your sound and system. As with everything in life, if you can afford it, buy the best equipment you can. Cheap gear usually is more difficult to get a good sound out of (particularly PA speakers/systems).
Chobbersjnr
03-Apr-07, 00:13
Hmmmmmmmmm
when at eden court watching Preston Reid, Amos Garret & Albert Lee & hogan's Heros I remember the soundman (appropriately named Tone) doing the single shot feedbacks across the frequency spectrum to tune the feedback destroyers to the room across the vocal mics
these guys at the top of the level using feedback destroyers. It also occurs to me that the feedback destroyer only works when something starts to feedback. I remember hearing it work when we used them. The mic starts to go & it is quickly destroyed
In order to do single shots with a feedback destroyer you have to generate feedback & doing this 12 times (I think) in your average bar could result in a punch in the jaw. I heard it being done in an empty eden court & the noise was spectacular
So in answer Deemac I would suggest that the frequency is notched for as long as it takes to kill the feedback
Ta
Jeemag_USA
03-Apr-07, 01:31
You could always try being an unplugged band. I remember my time in the South of Ireland, most of the bars I went into if you mentioned the word "amplification" they'd think you were from outer space. Guys hammered their guitars, squeezed the life out of button boxes, set fiddles on fire and sang at the top of their voices, not a mic or amplifier in sight and they were playing to upwards of 100 people :Razz
Chobbersjnr
03-Apr-07, 02:20
You could always try being an unplugged band. I remember my time in the South of Ireland, most of the bars I went into if you mentioned the word "amplification" they'd think you were from outer space. Guys hammered their guitars, squeezed the life out of button boxes, set fiddles on fire and sang at the top of their voices, not a mic or amplifier in sight and they were playing to upwards of 100 people :Razz
aye & end up wi a throat lek a furnace & fingers lek battle scarred gladiators..........
Jeemag_USA
03-Apr-07, 02:52
aye & end up wi a throat lek a furnace & fingers lek battle scarred gladiators..........
aye thur's nothin lek it! [lol]
When I did a PA for Preson Reid in Thurso, he didn't want any monitors and his guitars were mixed quite bass heavy (he used seven different guitars that evening). We carefully found how far the system would tollerate gain before feedback issues arose and never went above that level. Admittedly he only used a vocal mic to announce stuff between songs which helped.
Seemed to work quite well.:Razz
lol dont think calum would take too kindly to playing completely unplugged! He chipped in half for the PA and just bought a nice new amp especially for playing in the band so dont think he'd appreciate putting e wild howl out of him for 3 hours a night!
Thanks for all e advice though folkies. hopefully the stands will be here 2moro so il be experimenting wi them in the balckstairs on Friday night, 9pm (tell your friends!)
Chobbersjnr
03-Apr-07, 13:33
When I did a PA for Preson Reid in Thurso, he didn't want any monitors and his guitars were mixed quite bass heavy (he used seven different guitars that evening). We carefully found how far the system would tollerate gain before feedback issues arose and never went above that level. Admittedly he only used a vocal mic to announce stuff between songs which helped.
Seemed to work quite well.:Razz
He didn't want monitors in eden court either...............but Amos did. Albert Lee did (had 2 vox mics in fact) Pete Wingfield did & so did the drummer Peter Baron. Now your gain level using guitar is considerably higher without feedback than it is using mics as well. In the siituation with the feedback destroyer in E/court there happened to be mightily high powered amps on stage not to mention high powered monitors & these professional people still deemed it necessary to use a feedback destroyer....He only used the vocal mic to announce in between numbers as well
& you're kind of stating the obvious when finding out the limits of the system & not going beyond it. It's elementary PA stuff
Every system has it's limit & if you have the time & an empty room then feedback destroyers help you get more out of the system A LOT MORE
I seem to recall something about Grannies and sucking eggs quoted recently!! This appears to be ring bells as I read this (sorry couldn't resist).
I'll bring the large claymore over right away.
PS: When am I getting back my leads?
Chobbersjnr
03-Apr-07, 18:50
I seem to recall something about Grannies and sucking eggs quoted recently!! This appears to be ring bells as I read this (sorry couldn't resist).
I'll bring the large claymore over right away.
PS: When am I getting back my leads?
hee hee................
LEADS!!!!! what leads????? OH aye that'll be the one's Moncur bought on ebay yesterday................Did they work Dick????
hee hee................
LEADS!!!!! what leads????? OH aye that'll be the one's Moncur bought on ebay yesterday................Did they work Dick????
the ones that were held together wi gaffa tape? aye work just topping so long as they dont move too much! oh yeah wheres my silver lead fae the big gig 2006?
Jeemag_USA
03-Apr-07, 20:04
Sorry to change the subject, but do you guys get Monster Cable in the UK. They are now the leading cable maker in the USA because they have a gaurantee that if it ever breaks you can take it into any store and they replace it, even if you did not buy it there. So theoretically if you buy a dozen cables from them, you'll never have to buy any ever again, because if one breaks you just take it back. and it does work because one of mine did start to short and I got it replaced, since then I have bought two more 15ft guitar cables and a mic cable. Good way to corner the market!
http://www.guitarcenter.com/shop/home/navigation?q=monster+cables&x=0&y=0
hee hee................
LEADS!!!!! what leads????? OH aye that'll be the one's Moncur bought on ebay yesterday................Did they work Dick????
No - that will be the leads you borrowed at the Thurso Hogmanay Street Party - LAST YEAR!!!!!!!
Don't worry I'll deduct 10% of your salary from the 35 bookings I just posted to you . . . . . .[evil]
Sorry to change the subject, but do you guys get Monster Cable in the UK. They are now the leading cable maker in the USA because they have a gaurantee that if it ever breaks you can take it into any store and they replace it, even if you did not buy it there. So theoretically if you buy a dozen cables from them, you'll never have to buy any ever again, because if one breaks you just take it back. and it does work because one of mine did start to short and I got it replaced, since then I have bought two more 15ft guitar cables and a mic cable. Good way to corner the market!
http://www.guitarcenter.com/shop/home/navigation?q=monster+cables&x=0&y=0
Monster make good stuff. I bought some Monster cables a few years ago and I ended up getting a few free cables as well.
Chobbersjnr
03-Apr-07, 21:47
No - that will be the leads you borrowed at the Thurso Hogmanay Street Party - LAST YEAR!!!!!!!
Don't worry I'll deduct 10% of your salary from the 35 bookings I just posted to you . . . . . .[evil]
ooh shouting & an evil face
Deemac it doesn't suit you in fact it's pretty funny
your leads are in my studio safe & sound
Just to let u guys know. the speaker stands made a big difference along with the decent microphones at last nights gig. PLUS because the speakers were up high, nobody used them as bar tables!
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