Salmond on telly:about to abolish council tax

[percy toboggan]

I saw him this morning on the Andrew Marr programme which came from Edinburgh.

Apparently a plank in the Nationalists campaign has been to increase income tax by three pence in the pound and ABOLISH council tax. What? This sounds too much like common sense to have been uttered by a politician.
What do you think of this? Will it work - is it viable? Given the opinion polls, it must be popular.
It sounds like a boon for retirees and those who do not work.

On a day when prescription charges are abolished in Wales I feel like an English mug. The smaller constitutents of the union seem to have at least some of the answers for ordinary wage earning folk, whilst the English amongst us just seem to get shafted. From speed cameras to care homes to top up fees and everything in between. Beam me up...or across.

[Rheghead]

This would suit me because my salary is paid to me from an office in England and is put straight into my bank so it would be taxed at the English rate and I would get my Council Tax abolished thrown in. Happy Days!: Gosh, I'm gonna be a tax exile!!

Or does it just show that the SNP's tax reforms are unworkable? If it's too good to be true then it probably is.[smirk]

[rambler]

This would suit me because my salary is paid to me from an office in England and is put straight into my bank so it would be taxed at the English rate and I would get my Council Tax abolished thrown in. Happy Days!: Gosh, I'm gonna be a tax exile!!

Or does it just show that the SNP's tax reforms are unworkable? If it's too good to be true then it probably is.[smirk]

The tax reform is absolutely workable.
If you live in Scotland you will have to pay income tax in Scotland, no matter whether your salary is paid in Spain, England or the Maledives. Those with a high income will have to pay higher taxes to assist those with a lower or no salary.

I think that is a far better and socially balanced way of taxing compared with the current council tax that is not much different to the poll tax anyway.

[Rheghead]

If you live in Scotland you will have to pay income tax in Scotland.

I get paid in England but live in Scotland. My home bank branch is in England. How will I get taxed at the the more expensive Scottish rate when the tax office is in England and the company is registered in England? It is unworkable.

[rambler]

I get paid in England but live in Scotland. My home bank branch is in England. How will I get taxed at the the more expensive Scottish rate when the tax office is in England and the company is registered in England? It is unworkable.

You will have to declare your income to the Scottish tax office. Currently if someone is employed by a French company and resides and works in the UK and the salary is paid into a French bank account they still have to declare and pay taxes in the UK.
The same principle will apply to you when there are different means of taxation between England and Scotland. Fully workable.

[Rheghead]

You will have to declare your income to the Scottish tax office. Currently if someone is employed by a French company and resides and works in the UK and the salary is paid into a French bank account they still have to declare and pay taxes in the UK.
The same principle will apply to you when there are different means of taxation between England and Scotland. Fully workable.

It will be illegal as Scotland will be taxed at different rates to England. Remember the Poll Tax fiasco??

[rambler]

It will be illegal as Scotland will be taxed at different rates to England. Remember the Poll Tax fiasco??

Let Scotland be an independent country and it will be perfectly legal.

[Rheghead]

Let Scotland be an independent country and it will be perfectly legal.

Now let me get this right, Scotland will put its most gifted and well paid at a serious financial disadvantage compared with its neighbour.

As the entrepreneurs are the real drivers of any economy, what do you think is the upshot of this proposed daft piece of legislation?:confused

[rambler]

Now let me get this right, Scotland will put its most gifted and well paid at a serious financial disadvantage compared with its neighbour.

As the entrepreneurs are the real drivers of any economy, what do you think is the upshot of this proposed daft piece of legislation?:confused

There are many incentives in Scotland for the "most gifted and well paid" to stay in this country.
The big money is not created from the income tax of the workforce and it is unlikely that companies would make a decisions to invest in a country based on the income tax. We need incentives for companies to come, invest and stay in Scotland. Business tax rates are more important for companies than the income tax of the workforce.

I have no doubt, that an independent Scotland in a strong Europe will be a winner. Council tax should not be a part of a modern Scotland.

[Rheghead]

We need incentives for companies to come, invest and stay in Scotland. Business tax rates are more important for companies than the income tax of the workforce.

You won't attract any work force to work in Scotland if you tax them to the eyeballs.

[rambler]

You won't attract any work force to work in Scotland if you tax them to the eyeballs.

The workforce is where the work is.
Attract businesses to come to Scotland and to create jobs, because that matters. The workforce is already here and most don't really want to go. It's jobs that are missing in some places. Most average paid people will only benefit from a new taxation system anyway. It is those with the above average income that might have to pay a little more, so what? Sureley some may consider a move to a place with less taxation, let them go, but most will stay in Scotland. Iceland and Norway to name but two have high income taxes and yet the people stay. And they like it.

[Rheghead]

Attract businesses to come to Scotland and to create jobs, because that matters.

Two thirds of Scotland's business leaders are against Independence.

[rambler]

Two thirds of Scotland's business leaders are against Independence.

Not to worry, that will change soon. As is most Scottish businesses have their roots in England and that explains a lot. We'll get over that!:D

[The_man_from_del_monte]

The workforce is already here and most don't really want to go.

Get REAL, China is the place for cheap labour these days.... Scotland has ZILCH to offer to companies. A second rate tourist resort is all Scotland has to offer.... independence? Bring it on! I can't wait to see "independence" in action.... it'll be a shambles / joke just like the national football team and that so called "Scottish parliament" ;)

What a joke!

[Humerous Vegetable]

Get REAL, China is the place for cheap labour these days.... Scotland has ZILCH to offer to companies. A second rate tourist resort is all Scotland has to offer.... independence? Bring it on! I can't wait to see "independence" in action.... it'll be a shambles / joke just like the national football team and that so called "Scottish parliament" ;)

What a joke!

It beats me why you want to stay in such a sad country - don't they want you back in England either? Maybe you should do a Frank Bruno/Paul Daniels who both said they would leave the UK if Labour won the 1997 election. We'd all miss you of course, but bigots are like buses, there'll always be another one along if you wait.

[golach]

It beats me why you want to stay in such a sad country - don't they want you back in England either? Maybe you should do a Frank Bruno/Paul Daniels who both said they would leave the UK if Labour won the 1997 election. We'd all miss you of course, but bigots are like buses, there'll always be another one along if you wait.
Ach come on HV maybe TMFDM is a political refugee, or an asylum seeker for an oppressed country, be a little generous to our visitors

[Rheghead]

It beats me why you want to stay in such a sad country - don't they want you back in England either?

And anyone else who just utters a word of criticism against Scotland and who doesn't have at least 3 Scottish great grandparents should also return to their country of origin eh?[disgust]

If we want to live here we'd better be quiet about it.........or else

[Humerous Vegetable]

I don't consider someone calling my country a joke to be a "word of criticism". As my mother was English, presumably I have just as many English as Scottish great grandparents and, whichever of the 2 countries I decided to live in, I hope that I would show respect for their customs and institutions.

[The_man_from_del_monte]

I don't consider someone calling my country a joke to be a "word of criticism".

"your" country? you own it do you? I've got every right to call this country a joke, in fact I think the whole of the UK is a joke these days and going downhill day by day. Why do you assume that I'm a "foreigner"? I was born in Scotland and my entire family are Scottish (no English mothers either) so get off your daft "my country" narrow mindedness and don't assume that everyone who doesn't gush enthusiasm for everything "Scottish" is English or a foreigner.

If you read my post you'd realise I was calling the Scottish parliament a "joke" and I think it is, personal opinion you don't have to agree with it... you may think Scotland rules the world but I don't having been out of the joint for more than a few weeks and experiencing life in other parts of the UK. You ever driven down the motorway and seen all the full lorries delivering stuff up to Scotland and all the empty lorries returning back down South? Without all that gear coming up from England Scotland would be a ghost town..... but, of course, we'd have plenty of "oil".............

[The_man_from_del_monte]

Ach come on HV maybe TMFDM is a political refugee, or an asylum seeker for an oppressed country, be a little generous to our visitors


I'm neither of the above Golach, just experienced life on the other side of the fence and Scotland really isn't all some people make it out to be, it's a nice place to live but it ain't the only nice place to live on the planet ;)

[Boozeburglar]

As long as they have some scheme to prevent folks keeping empty holiday homes I am for it, about time Scotland had control of our own tax, first step to true solo flight.

If anyone takes off the cuff jibes about Scotland being a second rate tourist resort seriously get a grip. World class tourist destination is definitely the fact, despite the wind farm polluters best efforts, don't rise to it.

;)

[The_man_from_del_monte]

World class tourist destination is definitely the fact

That's a matter of opinion... read some of the comments (especially the ones from tourists) http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=478592007

[golach]

That's a matter of opinion... read some of the comments (especially the ones from tourists) http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=478592007

Sorry TMFDM, of the 45 comments, 90% are from regular posters to the Scotsman and Evening News and are expert wind up merchants, of the other 5 % not many of them are tourists.
I work in the Scottish Tourist industry and last year I heard nothing but praise for Edinburgh, Scotland and its people, in that order and this was from foreign visitors.

[sorghaghtanibeki]

I am not scotish but it is good to see that freedom to talk is permited herein scotland!

[percy toboggan]

In my view Scotland, as a tourist destination is world class, in fact it's in a league of it's own because it is so relatively close to me.
I gathered that another Salmond (SNP)policy is to reduce corporation taxes thereby- hopefully for the nats - attracting companies and increasing employment. Looking at opinion polls they are likely to be elected as the largest single party. I hope that independence does not follow though, I really do. Although many Scots will disagree with me the sum of the UK is greater than that of its constituent parts. I'd be genuinely upset if the union was ended. I'd probably have to get some Euro's before coming up on holiday - although, conveniently Salmond says an independent Scotland would retain Sterling in the short term - talk about cakes and eating them??

[Boozeburglar]

Even I whine about hotel prices, but book a nice B&B, or stay in one of our many friendly hostels and you get a different story.

What I am referring to when I say world class are the amenities, and most of them are natural.

The cost of a hotel in Thurso is not going to change the fact we have one of the finest surfing locations.

Fort William or Aviemore hotel prices are not going to diminish the benefit of Cairngorm or the Nevis range as serious training tools for some of the world's finest climbers.

That you might feel ripped off by a hotel in Portree, Stornoway or Kyle does not alter the West Coast's reputation as THE sea kayaking destination.

Funny though, most of the folks enjoying these activities probably care less about their accommodation and a good few of them rough it in hostels or campsites.

I have met a lot of tourists over the years and Scotland looms large in the imagination of those who have yet to visit, mainly on the back of the fond recollections of those who have already been.

What we don't need is the Train Spotting nihilism of the 'Scotland is crap but I am too lazy to get off my backside and leave, I'd rather moan about it' brigade. I rarely meet these types up a hill or on a beach.



;)

[The_man_from_del_monte]

I work in the Scottish Tourist industry and last year I heard nothing but praise for Edinburgh, Scotland and its people, in that order and this was from foreign visitors.

Don't get me wrong the place is wonderful but scenery and history on their own do not make up 100% of the holiday experience. A friend of mine from the states visited last year and commented that the service was "goddam awful" (and that's putting his comments politely) he referred mainly to the food, the service and the accomodation.

I have to agree that the level of service in quite a few places is abysmal and it seems like you're bothering the staff (who vacantly stare into space) when you ask them for a glass of water or a cup of tea...... it's certainly not a "have a nice day" kind of experience like it is in some other countries!

Sure, Scotland has got wonderful scenery but the rest of the "holiday experience" is let down by poor service and over priced accommodation. I'm sure there are a few fantastic hostelries off the beaten track but quite a few of the ones I have experienced have been rather dire. Different story with bed and breakfast, the majority of those I've tried have been superb with the owners going out of their way to help you but these mainstream tartan and haggis venues on the tourist trail staffed by vacant teenagers have proved most disappointing (in my experience) YMMV.

[Rheghead]

I find it ironic when people find it offensive when another complains about the state of Scottish tourism when it is universally accepted that Caithness seriously and sadly under sells itself. It is either, closed for lunch, outpricing itself, shut from October 31st to May 31st or advertising its radiocative beaches more than its own beauty.

[JAWS]

Be honest, Rheghead, Caithness doesn't underself itself, it doesn't sell itself at all!

[j4bberw0ck]

Evenin' all

It's been widely reported that Salmond's Council Tax abolition is utterly dependent on the UK Treasury giving Scotland £380 million to replace the Council Tax benefits payments received by those who for one reason or another are excused payment of council tax.

In addition the figures that he's provided (it has again been widely reported) would mean the Scottish Executive having to find £450 million to give to local authorities; where, dear taxpayers, do you think that will come from?

And how many of the 10% who are the high earners who'll be much worse off in Salmond's Class War live and work in the Central Belt? I'd bet it's the overwhelming majority; I wonder how many will decide to toddle off over the border and buy a house in Berwick..... or does Salmond want that back as well?

From "The Scotsman", mid-March:


But the SNP's claim that the plans had been endorsed by the respected Institute for Fiscal Studies were called into question when the think-tank itself cast doubt over some of the assumptions.
The SNP claimed the £1.25 billion the IFS said can be raised in local income tax would need an extra £450 million from the Executive - as well as £380 million from the Treasury to compensate for the abolition of council tax benefit - to make up the total £2.13 billion which currently comes from the council tax.
However, Stuart Adam, a senior research economist at the IFS, said the £450 million would leave a "hole in local authorities' finances". And he questioned the SNP's claims that the money would be found from efficiency savings made in the Executive.
Mr Adam added: "Whether voters would see the spending cuts as a price worth paying for the tax cuts remains to be seen - the effects would be very different for different families and in different areas - but the trade-off would no longer be at the discretion of local decision-makers."

[The_man_from_del_monte]

Caithness doesn't undersell itself, it doesn't sell itself at all!

And thank god for that! Nothing worse than living in a goldfish bowl with strange passers by (tourists) eyballing you when you're laying butt naked in the garden being eaten alive by midges. I'm glad they don't promote the place I could think of nothing worse than Caithness swarming with English tourists "hey up luv, only £80,000 for a house we could sit on patio with a glass of wine" Even worse would be some foreigner crashing into you in a rented Citreon Saxo............

Promote radioactivity is what I say! Keep them away from the place or it'll just end up just like every other oversubscribed / overpopulated "development" full of pretentious / stressed up people crammed into new built houses with no room to swing a cat.

The beauty of this place is the lack of people... promote it and fill it up with people and bang goes the peace. Some class mobs of people descending on a place as "progress" I class it as destruction of a way of life (and a way of life that should be preserved).

[the nomad]

The tax reform is absolutely workable.
If you live in Scotland you will have to pay income tax in Scotland, no matter whether your salary is paid in Spain, England or the Maledives. Those with a high income will have to pay higher taxes to assist those with a lower or no salary.

I think that is a far better and socially balanced way of taxing compared with the current council tax that is not much different to the poll tax anyway.
Sorry I really don't agree with what you are saying. I have worked since leaving school and have earned the position and salary I know have the hard way. I am all for supporting lower income families who struggle but are prepared to work, I know I have been there myself.....however I can see no reason why I am penalised for the non working element of our society. Unless through circumstances beyond their control, such as ill health or redundancy then why should I be penalised for a bunch of dole scroungers. I already have hit the higher tax brcaket and it is crippling, another 3% to support a bunch of lazy so and so's, no way. Mind you I might still be better of this way my council tax is high due to loaction property market, no I'm not in a mansion.

[j4bberw0ck]

This is a pretty good analogy of how income tax works. It would need to be adjusted slightly for the UK tax regime but the analogy works anyhow:



Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.
So, that's what they decided to do.
The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20." Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?' They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay. And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).
Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.
"I only got a dollar out of the $20," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man," but he got $10!"

"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!"
"That's true!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!"
"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!"
The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.
The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!
And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

[percy toboggan]

. I'm glad they don't promote the place I could think of nothing worse than Caithness swarming with English tourists "hey up luv, only £80,000 for a house we could sit on patio with a glass of wine" ).

Aye up! Haz thar bin eavesdroppin' or summat? :lol:
I've always dreamt of me orn paddy o'doors.
Mind you a warming glass of Bovril might be more apt.

(English and patient)
p.s. 'only 80 grand? we live north of Watford and to us that's still a tidy sum.