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piratelassie
05-Feb-15, 00:44
The way this man is talking lately it won't surprise me if he promisies independence if Labour win the Westminster election.

Gronnuck
05-Feb-15, 10:56
The man has always been a new Labour blairite, a red Tory, the type of Labour politician we've been trying to get rid of since 2007. For all his talk his aspirations are with the Westminster elite. He's got an uphill battle to bring true Labour alive again in Scotland but a new John Smith he is not.

rob murray
05-Feb-15, 17:43
The man has always been a new Labour blairite, a red Tory, the type of Labour politician we've been trying to get rid of since 2007. For all his talk his aspirations are with the Westminster elite. He's got an uphill battle to bring true Labour alive again in Scotland but a new John Smith he is not.

JOhn SMith....the last old style moderate, true labourite, the likes we will never ever see again...you cant unwish Blairs presence in ( new ) labour, it was his vision and a popular one at that = 3 term government ( rightly or wrongly ) anything remotedly left of centre has no chance in the UK...thats Blairs legacy and the politics of c21... at least Murphy wasnt a brownite..whatever that meant...time will out though...Murphys pseudo new labour v ideologically bankrupt SNP, only one winner there Im afraid....wee nicky and the extremist braveheart free by 45 brigade....yuk eh !

Rheghead
05-Feb-15, 20:13
Jim Murphy lost all credibility during his 100 towns for the union road trip. I don't mean the content of his message, it was all pretty much standard No voter stuff. What he did do was play to the gallery for being a victim of abuse when clearly it was a bit of give and take on both sides. That tells me he isn't leadership material, snivelling little wind up merchant who gives the slopey shoulder of responsibility for his own actions more like.

Murdo
06-Feb-15, 11:54
I think it says it all about Westminster Labours attitude to Scotland when they had not one single Holyrood MSP that they felt capable of leading the party here and had to parachute this guy in. I for one will never vote Labour again until they begin to re-find their roots.

Westward
06-Feb-15, 13:32
Jim Murphy, in my opinion is not the man for this particular job of work, his attitude is one of a "Londoner" whereby, delegation is the name of the game and in particular, anything Scotland. He has not only forgotten Labours roots he has clearly forgotten his own and therefore, commands no respect North of Westminster.

rob murray
06-Feb-15, 15:05
I think it says it all about Westminster Labours attitude to Scotland when they had not one single Holyrood MSP that they felt capable of leading the party here and had to parachute this guy in. I for one will never vote Labour again until they begin to re-find their roots.

AT least Labour recognised that SCottish MSP's were little more than toon cooncilors, what Labour roots are you on about, "socialism"...last socialist labour party was Atlee's in the 40's, everything since has had to be close to / right of centre or they would never have got in. The true left has been found in splinter parties which themselves have a habit of imploding. Face it only a small minority would vote for a socialist left party as things stand, we would need to be in dire straights for this to happen ( Greece ) Vote "labour" and keep Cameron out thats the choice, I dont trust the SNIPS, if they clean up Scottish labour seats, King makers eh...well they would be sitting down with their right of centre pals...I for one will never vote SNP as they betrayed Scotland and the UK in 1979 bringing down Callaghan and paving the way for Thatcher...less we ever forget the irony of Scotlands hatred of Thatcher for destroying our industrial base...sweet irony eh !

golach
08-Feb-15, 09:55
I have to say I admire a man that can run into a burning bar "The Clutha" in Glasgow and help save people, dont think Eck Salmond would/could do similar.

sids
08-Feb-15, 11:01
dont think Eck Salmond would/could do similar.

He might have saved loads of people, had he been there. Who knows?

Could say the same about John Thurso, Harriet Harman and Keith Vaz. They might have been very heroic.

gerry4
08-Feb-15, 12:45
I have to say I admire a man that can run into a burning bar "The Clutha" in Glasgow and help save people, dont think Eck Salmond would/could do similar.

That has to be one of the most pathetic statements made on this forum. Most people would try to help others in danger. Absolutely pathetic & adds zero to the argument.

Gronnuck
08-Feb-15, 23:04
I have to say I admire a man that can run into a burning bar "The Clutha" in Glasgow and help save people, dont think Eck Salmond would/could do similar.

Jim Murphy did not "Run into a burning bar". There was no fire. He was among the first on the scene. In his own words he described how he arrived at the scene went into the pub and helped people out through the dust and debris, as did many others.
Of course there might have been the possible danger of a fire or explosion but as he said himself everyone, meaning more than just him, went to help.

rob murray
10-Feb-15, 15:57
Yep have to agree.........

Oddquine
15-Feb-15, 01:51
AT least Labour recognised that SCottish MSP's were little more than toon cooncilors, what Labour roots are you on about, "socialism"...last socialist labour party was Atlee's in the 40's, everything since has had to be close to / right of centre or they would never have got in. The true left has been found in splinter parties which themselves have a habit of imploding. Face it only a small minority would vote for a socialist left party as things stand, we would need to be in dire straights for this to happen ( Greece ) Vote "labour" and keep Cameron out thats the choice, I dont trust the SNIPS, if they clean up Scottish labour seats, King makers eh...well they would be sitting down with their right of centre pals...I for one will never vote SNP as they betrayed Scotland and the UK in 1979 bringing down Callaghan and paving the way for Thatcher...less we ever forget the irony of Scotlands hatred of Thatcher for destroying our industrial base...sweet irony eh !

And that just shows your ignorance of facts. The SNP didn't bring down Callaghan, as Callaghan himself admitted. The Labour MPs who instituted the 40% rule brought down their party. If there had been no 40% rule, there would have been no motion of censure tabled by the SNP(which is not the same as a Vote of No Confidence) when Callaghan refused to set up the devolved legislature for which Scots had voted. And if there had been no motion of censure Margaret Thatcher would not have used the intentions of the SNP to stand by their right to call Callaghan out on his decision to drop the bill, and turn it into a vote of no confidence The confidence vote was Thatcher's, the blame for it was Labour's, and the majority of one could have been an SNP MP, a Tory MP, a Liberal MP, a DUP MP a UUP MP or a UUUP MP. How come it is always the SNP which gets the blame...that would be because SNP Bad for being more left wing than NuLabour and gradually encroaching on their perceived vote entitlement in Scotland

rob murray
16-Feb-15, 16:39
And that just shows your ignorance of facts. The SNP didn't bring down Callaghan, as Callaghan himself admitted. The Labour MPs who instituted the 40% rule brought down their party. If there had been no 40% rule, there would have been no motion of censure tabled by the SNP(which is not the same as a Vote of No Confidence) when Callaghan refused to set up the devolved legislature for which Scots had voted. And if there had been no motion of censure Margaret Thatcher would not have used the intentions of the SNP to stand by their right to call Callaghan out on his decision to drop the bill, and turn it into a vote of no confidence The confidence vote was Thatcher's, the blame for it was Labour's, and the majority of one could have been an SNP MP, a Tory MP, a Liberal MP, a DUP MP a UUP MP or a UUUP MP. How come it is always the SNP which gets the blame...that would be because SNP Bad for being more left wing than NuLabour and gradually encroaching on their perceived vote entitlement in Scotland

Well another truth denying SNP revisionist

rob murray
16-Feb-15, 16:48
And that just shows your ignorance of facts. The SNP didn't bring down Callaghan, as Callaghan himself admitted. The Labour MPs who instituted the 40% rule brought down their party. If there had been no 40% rule, there would have been no motion of censure tabled by the SNP(which is not the same as a Vote of No Confidence) when Callaghan refused to set up the devolved legislature for which Scots had voted. And if there had been no motion of censure Margaret Thatcher would not have used the intentions of the SNP to stand by their right to call Callaghan out on his decision to drop the bill, and turn it into a vote of no confidence The confidence vote was Thatcher's, the blame for it was Labour's, and the majority of one could have been an SNP MP, a Tory MP, a Liberal MP, a DUP MP a UUP MP or a UUUP MP. How come it is always the SNP which gets the blame...that would be because SNP Bad for being more left wing than NuLabour and gradually encroaching on their perceived vote entitlement in Scotland

Is this what you mean : On 1 March 1979 a Referendum on the Scotland Act (http://forum.caithness.org/wiki/Scottish_devolution_referendum,_1979) saw a majority vote for devolution, but a threshold imposed by anti-devolution MPs requiring 40% of the electorate (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/electorate) to be in favour was not reached due to low turnout (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/turnout).[4] (http://forum.caithness.org/#cite_note-bbc.co.uk-4) When the Government refused to implement the Act (per its special threshold legislative clause) the Scottish National Party (http://forum.caithness.org/wiki/Scottish_National_Party) MPs put down a motion of no confidence. After consulting with the Liberal Party to confirm that they were still supporting motions of no confidence, Leader of the Opposition, Margaret Thatcher (http://forum.caithness.org/wiki/Margaret_Thatcher) put down an Opposition motion which took precedence. If the SNP hadnt put dowm its motion then the rest wouldnt have happened : The SNP are right of centre and always have been so dont kid tersel on, Labour..well they stopped being socialist if thats what you mean by left wing in the early 50's and certainly abandonded socialaist princplis over the 60's and finally killed them off in 1976...Callaghans famous speech...you cant buy your way out of a recession....a labour power player publically burying keynsiasm and welcoming in the monetarist consensus which is still in place today!

PantsMAN
16-Feb-15, 18:18
SNIP
!

Can you give us the reference please?

Strange that Roy Hattersley doesn't seem to have the same version...

"The government had lived precariously for more than two years - cobbling together majorities night by night by recruiting whatever allies were available. By the carefully chosen day on which Margaret Thatcher had put the no confidence motion on the House of Commons order paper it was too late to hope that salvation would come from the support of the smaller parties. The Liberals had formally ended the "pact" which had sustained Labour since 1977. Their official reason was the failure to deliver devolution but, in truth, they were under the influence of intoxicating opinion polls which gave the Conservatives (http://www.theguardian.com/politics/conservatives) a 14% lead. Plaid Cymru was safe and solid in its support. But the Scottish National party had declared political independence from the government. "
http:// http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2009/mar/22/james-callaghan-labour-1979-thatcher

Also, to quote from House of Commons Library - Parliament and constitution Centre Section,

"The fact that the Official Opposition has precedence over other opposition parties in censure
debates is demonstrated by the fact that two SNP motions in the late 1970s, to reduce the
Prime Minister’s salary by half, 10 and a motion on 22 March condemning the Government’s
policy following the 1979 devolution referendum 11 were not treated as motions of censure
presumably because they did not emanate from the Official Opposition. In the latter case the
Official Opposition put down a no-confidence motion later that day, and this was debated on
28 March. "

Ref - http://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN02873.pdf

And finally from http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1979/mar/28/her-majestys-government-opposition-motion

(http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1979/mar/28/her-majestys-government-opposition-motion)HER MAJESTY'S GOVERNMENT (OPPOSITION MOTION)
HC Deb 28 March 1979 vol 965 cc461-590
3.34 p.m. (http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1979/mar/28/her-majestys-government-opposition-motion#S5CV0965P0_19790328_HOC_188) Mrs. Margaret Thatcher (Finchley) (http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/people/mrs-margaret-thatcher) Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, That this House has no confidence in Her Majesty's Government."

Somehow, I don't think Mrs Thatcher was waiting for the SNP...

rob murray
17-Feb-15, 17:40
Can you give us the reference please?

Strange that Roy Hattersley doesn't seem to have the same version...

"The government had lived precariously for more than two years - cobbling together majorities night by night by recruiting whatever allies were available. By the carefully chosen day on which Margaret Thatcher had put the no confidence motion on the House of Commons order paper it was too late to hope that salvation would come from the support of the smaller parties. The Liberals had formally ended the "pact" which had sustained Labour since 1977. Their official reason was the failure to deliver devolution but, in truth, they were under the influence of intoxicating opinion polls which gave the Conservatives (http://www.theguardian.com/politics/conservatives) a 14% lead. Plaid Cymru was safe and solid in its support. But the Scottish National party had declared political independence from the government. "
http:// http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2009/mar/22/james-callaghan-labour-1979-thatcher

Also, to quote from House of Commons Library - Parliament and constitution Centre Section,

"The fact that the Official Opposition has precedence over other opposition parties in censure
debates is demonstrated by the fact that two SNP motions in the late 1970s, to reduce the
Prime Minister’s salary by half, 10 and a motion on 22 March condemning the Government’s
policy following the 1979 devolution referendum 11 were not treated as motions of censure
presumably because they did not emanate from the Official Opposition. In the latter case the
Official Opposition put down a no-confidence motion later that day, and this was debated on
28 March. "

Ref - http://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN02873.pdf

And finally from http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1979/mar/28/her-majestys-government-opposition-motion

(http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1979/mar/28/her-majestys-government-opposition-motion)HER MAJESTY'S GOVERNMENT (OPPOSITION MOTION)
HC Deb 28 March 1979 vol 965 cc461-590
3.34 p.m. (http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1979/mar/28/her-majestys-government-opposition-motion#S5CV0965P0_19790328_HOC_188) Mrs. Margaret Thatcher (Finchley) (http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/people/mrs-margaret-thatcher) Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, That this House has no confidence in Her Majesty's Government."

Somehow, I don't think Mrs Thatcher was waiting for the SNP...



Interesting didnt know that, is Cameron waiting on the SNP ?

PantsMAN
17-Feb-15, 20:28
Interesting didnt know that, is Cameron waiting on the SNP ?

Too cryptic for me, I'm afraid...