View Full Version : Oil Price
rob murray
18-Dec-14, 14:42
Oil prices today is as below : predicted wipe out of marginal field work and suspension of ongoing work across many rigs in North Sea, hundreds laid off in ABerdeen by large players ( full time staff jobs ) with key service companies reducing conttacting rates : Ian Wood predicting the North Sea could go the way of coal...ie disappear. What chance has Salmon now got of being elected at the general election and if he is, what creditibility will he have at westminster ie he'll be laughed at - the man who was gambling an entire nations well being on sums which were out by billions. Remember his whole campaign was based on oil revenues raised from $100 a barrel, the low price will not escalate overnight !! So if we were free, we would be totally screwed as revenues would be short by billions. Oh in case I forget, the same idiot championed Scotland as the saudi arabia of renewables : well Polamis went bust a couple of weeks a go and Aquamarine ( both wave power generators ) is now down to a minimum core staff with large redundancies,wave power is practically dead, still at least we have wind farms !To those who voted NO, thank you very very much ! Those who voted YES get down on yer knees and give thanks to the sane amongst us who didnt trust the YES brigade, blatant lies and their big chief.
WTI crude oil : $56.47
Brent crude oil : $59.80
Doesn't rule out a big SNP vote.
tonkatojo
18-Dec-14, 15:05
Oil prices today is as below : predicted wipe out of marginal field work and suspension of ongoing work across many rigs in North Sea, hundreds laid off in ABerdeen by large players ( full time staff jobs ) with key service companies reducing conttacting rates : Ian Wood predicting the North Sea could go the way of coal...ie disappear. What chance has Salmon now got of being elected at the general election and if he is, what creditibility will he have at westminster ie he'll be laughed at - the man who was gambling an entire nations well being on sums which were out by billions. Remember his whole campaign was based on oil revenues raised from $100 a barrel, the low price will not escalate overnight !! So if we were free, we would be totally screwed as revenues would be short by billions. Oh in case I forget, the same idiot championed Scotland as the saudi arabia of renewables : well Polamis went bust a couple of weeks a go and Aquamarine ( both wave power generators ) is now down to a minimum core staff with large redundancies,wave power is practically dead, still at least we have wind farms !To those who voted NO, thank you very very much ! Those who voted YES get down on yer knees and give thanks to the sane amongst us who didnt trust the YES brigade, blatant lies and their big chief.
WTI crude oil : $56.47
Brent crude oil : $59.80
There is always the IMF if we would qualify lol.
rob murray
18-Dec-14, 15:18
Doesn't rule out a big SNP vote.
Aye I suppose you base that on the very large % increae in SNP membership ? A lot of very scary scenarios have been very quietly avoided by the SNP, but the day of reckoning has come, given the SNP have had minority and absolute power since 2007 they cant blame everything on westminster can they ? Oh the oil melt down and concequences will ceratinly erode the SNP's standing given their crap on $100 a barrel / large tax takes to fuel the land of milk and honey. Surely idiots can see that a YES vote would have pushed us right over ?? Fact : SNP economics behind "freedom" were based on nonsense, and a lot of new SNP members hung up on progressing the freedom agenda will I predict run for cover come 2016.
I base it on people not alway voting the way I would vote.
The hard times you predict may make people discontented. Then they may look for a handy scapegoat. The SNP could even go so far as to suggest one.
rob murray
18-Dec-14, 17:18
I base it on people not alway voting the way I would vote.
The hard times you predict may make people discontented. Then they may look for a handy scapegoat. The SNP could even go so far as to suggest one.
Not a prediction...facts / scapegoat = SNP mis management / lies, ie they have to carry the can, you cannot blame westmister for millions in subsidies paid to now failed wave power companies, mis management of Scottish NHS funds, centralising police / services, frozen council tax ( less local revenues ) and freebies that disproportionaly favour the better off = SNP : fact !
Let's see if the SNP reckon they actually can blame Westminster and claim that our problems will still be solved by "freedom."
Let's see if the SNP reckon they actually can blame Westminster and claim that our problems will still be solved by "freedom."
What a total load of crap. Scotland has more to offer than just oil. Lets just wait and see who the Tories blame for the now big black hole in U.K. economy due to the slump in North Sea Oil Revenue.
Oil prices today is as below : predicted wipe out of marginal field work and suspension of ongoing work across many rigs in North Sea, hundreds laid off in ABerdeen by large players ( full time staff jobs ) with key service companies reducing conttacting rates : Ian Wood predicting the North Sea could go the way of coal...ie disappear. What chance has Salmon now got of being elected at the general election and if he is, what creditibility will he have at westminster ie he'll be laughed at - the man who was gambling an entire nations well being on sums which were out by billions. Remember his whole campaign was based on oil revenues raised from $100 a barrel, the low price will not escalate overnight !! So if we were free, we would be totally screwed as revenues would be short by billions. Oh in case I forget, the same idiot championed Scotland as the saudi arabia of renewables : well Polamis went bust a couple of weeks a go and Aquamarine ( both wave power generators ) is now down to a minimum core staff with large redundancies,wave power is practically dead, still at least we have wind farms !To those who voted NO, thank you very very much ! Those who voted YES get down on yer knees and give thanks to the sane amongst us who didnt trust the YES brigade, blatant lies and their big chief.
WTI crude oil : $56.47
Brent crude oil : $59.80
The drop in the price of oil would be great for an independent Scotland so long as we are hooked on fossil fuels for our energy and we ignore climate change. If you haven't notice, we live in a pretty sparsely populated country. It is funny that you have framed the failure of the Yes campaign due to the price of oil when we all know the factors for it are outwith Scotland's influence. Even sir Ian Wood says that the contraction of the oil industry in Scotland would be just 10% despite his claims of disaster. Since Scotland has so much more to offer than just oil then an independent Scotland could easily shrug that one off.
Fail. Next...
Let's see if the SNP reckon they actually can blame Westminster and claim that our problems will still be solved by "freedom."
What a total load of crap. Scotland has more to offer than just oil. Lets just wait and see who the Tories blame for the now big black hole in U.K. economy due to the slump in North Sea Oil Revenue.
Can "Let's see" really be a total load of crap?
Do you not like seeing?
The drop in the price of oil would be great for an independent Scotland so long as we are hooked on fossil fuels for our energy and we ignore climate change. If you haven't notice, we live in a pretty sparsely populated country. It is funny that you have framed the failure of the Yes campaign due to the price of oil when we all know the factors for it are outwith Scotland's influence. Even sir Ian Wood says that the contraction of the oil industry in Scotland would be just 10% despite his claims of disaster. Since Scotland has so much more to offer than just oil then an independent Scotland could easily shrug that one off.
Fail. Next... I'm sorry but the SNP was totally relying on oil price for tax. The Whisky industry has seen drop in sales overseas, house tax will go up from April next year making it more expensive for people to sell and buy. Land reform has more tax on fragile industry. If we were independent now be disaster for Scotland.
Southern-Gal
19-Dec-14, 09:33
I have not read all the thread BUT why has the price of oil suddenly dropped?
Have we all suddenly started using a lot less energy in the middle of the winter? Or are the new measures to divert our energy use to greener types of energy started to affect the price of oil? If this is the case then the European and government plans to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels are working.
Anyone who is daft enough to put all their eggs into the oil basket and not have a back up plan should really not be trying to force everyone else to do the same! So yes I do agree the yes voters should be thanking the no voters for saving their skins as the oil was the yes campaigns biggest asset. Or so they thought!
Does everyone in oil from the bottom to the top expect the money to keep rolling in non stop forever? Wake up and move some of your eggs into greener energy or another field altogether before you go broke.
Tubthumper
19-Dec-14, 10:31
It's remarkable that, after a period of apparent international business downturn and austerity with record high oil prices, the bottom falls out of the oil market placing Russia in a very bad position, just as they're getting a bit uppity. The 'reasons' for the falling price seem a bit dubious - You'd almost think that the 'free market' was being manipulated.
I have not read all the thread BUT why has the price of oil suddenly dropped?
Have we all suddenly started using a lot less energy in the middle of the winter? Or are the new measures to divert our energy use to greener types of energy started to affect the price of oil? If this is the case then the European and government plans to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels are working.
.
Efficiency measures appear to be a minor part of the reasons for the drop in oil price.
Renewables need high oil prices, or they become economic suicide.
Short term, it appears that the main cause of low oil price is World economic downturn and a bit of increased supply from Lybia, among other things that I don't know about. I could Google a bit more!
placing Russia in a very bad position, just as they're getting a bit uppity.
Annexing territory is very uppity.
I'm sorry but the SNP was totally relying on oil price for tax. The Whisky industry has seen drop in sales overseas, house tax will go up from April next year making it more expensive for people to sell and buy. Land reform has more tax on fragile industry. If we were independent now be disaster for Scotland.
I don't know what world you have been observing but it isn't this one.
A spokesman for Mr Swinney said: “Oil is a bonus, not the basis of Scotland’s economy"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/oilprices/11299962/SNP-rejects-inquiry-into-independence-oil-predictions.html
This is in contrast with the UK economy where the oil is definitely being relied upon and it saved Thatcher's economic woes throughout the 80s.
I don't know what world you have been observing but it isn't this one.
A spokesman for Mr Swinney said: “Oil is a bonus, not the basis of Scotland’s economy"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/oilprices/11299962/SNP-rejects-inquiry-into-independence-oil-predictions.html
This is in contrast with the UK economy where the oil is definitely being relied upon and it saved Thatcher's economic woes throughout the 80s. I'm only observed the one before the referedum SNP based their tax on oil to support Scotland being independent, of course now the oil falls low SNP would say it bonus to Scotland, for consumer yes for the country no
windymiller
20-Dec-14, 11:18
The 'reasons' for the falling price seem a bit dubious - You'd almost think that the 'free market' was being manipulated.
No way, really?
I have not read all the thread BUT why has the price of oil suddenly dropped?
Have we all suddenly started using a lot less energy in the middle of the winter? Or are the new measures to divert our energy use to greener types of energy started to affect the price of oil? If this is the case then the European and government plans to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels are working.
Anyone who is daft enough to put all their eggs into the oil basket and not have a back up plan should really not be trying to force everyone else to do the same! So yes I do agree the yes voters should be thanking the no voters for saving their skins as the oil was the yes campaigns biggest asset. Or so they thought!
Does everyone in oil from the bottom to the top expect the money to keep rolling in non stop forever? Wake up and move some of your eggs into greener energy or another field altogether before you go broke.
Pretty good explanation here........http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2014/12/economist-explains-4
and here http://www.vox.com/2014/12/16/7401705/oil-prices-falling
Seems to me the oil price is a bigger worry for the UK than it would have been for an independent Scotland......because, however much every unionist seems to think that an indy Scotland would spend all the country's income on the same immensely bloated Government set-up, international presence, and WMDs etc as does the UK, the oil income would not be so necessary to meet day to day obligations in the short/medium term post 2016. It may well have been useful initially, on first achieving independence, to help cover our share of UK debt interest until we got essential departments sorted out, sensible and cost-effective tax/benefit/procurement etc policies up and running and economic growth encouraged, but it was never going to be as essential to the Scottish economy as it has been to the UK one since the 1970s.
Scotland's public revenue, without oil income, is only 0.1% different from England’s.....and we wouldn't be spending so much helping to finance the above mentioned bloated Westminster machine...and the city-state of London.
Pretty good explanation here........http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2014/12/economist-explains-4
and here http://www.vox.com/2014/12/16/7401705/oil-prices-falling
Seems to me the oil price is a bigger worry for the UK than it would have been for an independent Scotland......because, however much every unionist seems to think that an indy Scotland would spend all the country's income on the same immensely bloated Government set-up, international presence, and WMDs etc as does the UK, the oil income would not be so necessary to meet day to day obligations in the short/medium term post 2016. It may well have been useful initially, on first achieving independence, to help cover our share of UK debt interest until we got essential departments sorted out, sensible and cost-effective tax/benefit/procurement etc policies up and running and economic growth encouraged, but it was never going to be as essential to the Scottish economy as it has been to the UK one since the 1970s.
Scotland's public revenue, without oil income, is only 0.1% different from England’s.....and we wouldn't be spending so much helping to finance the above mentioned bloated Westminster machine...and the city-state of London. So why was it big issue for SNP to push for Independent, all the TV debate from Alex was on oil.
So why was it big issue for SNP to push for Independent, all the TV debate from Alex was on oil.
It was very important and would make us all rich. I remember them boring us about it.
But that was then and this is now. Oil now has no importance to the Scottish mega-economy. Oddquine told me so.
So why was it big issue for SNP to push for Independent, all the TV debate from Alex was on oil.
Actually, no it wasn't, but the MSM would have the gullible believer that. They are still doing it....and the gullible are obviously still believing the MSM. Even Ian Wood, fracker extraordinaire and the fount of all Westminster's oil wisdom, it seems, hedges his words about job losses and production with the use of could and might, but he also says that " but predictions that the region is “close to collapse” are exaggerated" and suspects low prices will last for a year to 18 months. So if we had voted for independence, the price would probably be heading upwards by the time of independence day, anyway. I suppose you do realise that the oil price has been lower than $60 before.....for most of 2008 into 2009, in fact?
The issue was more the fact that the UK Government has, since the 1970s been widdling what could have produced an oil fund for the UK, as recommended by McCrone, if not specifically for Scotland, up against a wall as they were leaving the brewery in which they have proven, over the years, that they couldn't arrange a boozy party.
I do notice that they have learned a lesson, so fracking income in the North of England will produce an oil fund for that area, as it did for Shetland...but Scotland can just go whistle. Buying votes much?
Master Slave Manipulator?
Methylsulfonylmethane?
rob murray
20-Dec-14, 20:19
I'm sorry but the SNP was totally relying on oil price for tax. The Whisky industry has seen drop in sales overseas, house tax will go up from April next year making it more expensive for people to sell and buy. Land reform has more tax on fragile industry. If we were independent now be disaster for Scotland.
Spot on mate, some people on here can deny facts until they are blue in the face but the entire Salmonella economics behind braveheart was based on $100 a barrel and the other part of the lie ( pretence ) was Scotlands supposed diverse economy ( call centres, collapsing financial services and retail !! ) we didn't really depend on oil eh !!!!...well try telling that to the 100's paid off from full time on shore oil jobs in Aberdeen these past few weeks...goggle this until you find numbers that contradict this....no doubt some idiot will find some propaganda...I notice no one has made any informed comments on the total collapse of wave power...a lot of blind and deaf people on here eh... still pretending that "we" blew the chance of freedom....lol lol lol get real. SNP lies will be coming home, Sturgeon hasn't any answers or creditability after all she echoed Uncle Alexi's lies and gamble...liars and total fakes the lot of them
rob murray
20-Dec-14, 20:24
The drop in the price of oil would be great for an independent Scotland so long as we are hooked on fossil fuels for our energy and we ignore climate change. If you haven't notice, we live in a pretty sparsely populated country. It is funny that you have framed the failure of the Yes campaign due to the price of oil when we all know the factors for it are outwith Scotland's influence. Even sir Ian Wood says that the contraction of the oil industry in Scotland would be just 10% despite his claims of disaster. Since Scotland has so much more to offer than just oil then an independent Scotland could easily shrug that one off.
Fail. Next...
Oh yeah.... I never framed an oil price collapse on Scotland and well you know it...hooked on fossil fuels...get real...the only credible options left are wind and nuclear as wave power is screwed.
rob murray
20-Dec-14, 20:26
Actually, no it wasn't, but the MSM would have the gullible believer that. They are still doing it....and the gullible are obviously still believing the MSM. Even Ian Wood, fracker extraordinaire and the fount of all Westminster's oil wisdom, it seems, hedges his words about job losses and production with the use of could and might, but he also says that " but predictions that the region is “close to collapse” are exaggerated" and suspects low prices will last for a year to 18 months. So if we had voted for independence, the price would probably be heading upwards by the time of independence day, anyway. I suppose you do realise that the oil price has been lower than $60 before.....for most of 2008 into 2009, in fact?
The issue was more the fact that the UK Government has, since the 1970s been widdling what could have produced an oil fund for the UK, as recommended by McCrone, if not specifically for Scotland, up against a wall as they were leaving the brewery in which they have proven, over the years, that they couldn't arrange a boozy party.
I do notice that they have learned a lesson, so fracking income in the North of England will produce an oil fund for that area, as it did for Shetland...but Scotland can just go whistle. Buying votes much?
And your point is ??
Oh deary me, Norway is in a worse state than we are in the Union
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4a83b09e-811c-11e4-896c-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3MTDjAaBl
Oh yeah.... I never framed an oil price collapse on Scotland and well you know it...hooked on fossil fuels...get real...the only credible options left are wind and nuclear as wave power is screwed.
I never said that. You did. I said you are framing the failure of the Yes campaign due to the price of oil.
I never said that. You did. I said you are framing the failure of the Yes campaign due to the price of oil.
You're not wrong. The Yes vote failed long before the oil price.
rob murray
22-Dec-14, 13:29
I never said that. You did. I said you are framing the failure of the Yes campaign due to the price of oil.
I didnt, I stated that if we voted yes we would be in an undeniable hole ! I thanked the no voters as they saved us from a melt down. The yes campaign failed for numerous reasons as you well know, and the oil price back then was nearer Salmons $113 a barrel !!! Just goes to show how a black swan cannot be forecat or predicted
Better Out Than In
22-Dec-14, 15:22
I was told that oil prices are primarily low due to price manipulation between the big players not market forces as a fight back against USA shale oil. Arab countries can recover oil at a few $ a barrel which is less than fracked shale and much less than deep water offshore. So they can afford to see price drop more than the USA and North sea is even more vulnerable. So to use oil, whose price is controlled by others, as a means to bank rolling Scottish independence was always a high risk strategy. I agree with comments - we have been saved from very early ruin by the skin of our teeth.
Low oil prices does not just affect direct workers - for example half built vessels are still on their chock being mothballed as not longer market viable.
Regards wave energy - the amount of money invested (wasted?) in developing this technology is a small fraction compared to what has been spent on fast breeder and Dounreay decommissioning. Long term it is a viable energy source and green, it just needs the right incentives and support to kick off. However, whilst land lubbers might like the idea of marine energy more than land renewables , it does interferes with other marine users.
Norway. Very early on Norway took the decision not to spend their oil revenues but to invest it and then only spend the interest (put simply). So Norway's home economy is not directly affected by oil prices even though an oil economy. It is more affected by international markets - which do respond to oil prices but dampened and slower. They also have very cheap hydro power and cause this to make up energy deficits.
I didnt, I stated that if we voted yes we would be in an undeniable hole ! I thanked the no voters as they saved us from a melt down. The yes campaign failed for numerous reasons as you well know, and the oil price back then was nearer Salmons $113 a barrel !!! Just goes to show how a black swan cannot be forecat or predicted
Your argument doesn't stand either. If independence had gone ahead then the Scottish government would not have taken over until March 2016 and it would have been the UK government that still would have suffered and by which time the oil price could have recovered. In any case, the Scottish government is not reliant on high oil prices as oil is a bonus.
[QUOTE=Rheghead;1106078]Your argument doesn't stand erelither. If independence had gone ahead then the Scottish government would not have taken over until March 2016 and it would have been the UK government that still would have suffered and by which time the oil price could have recovered. In any case, the Scottish government is not reliant on high oil prices as oil is a bonus.[/QmUOTE] I'm amazed you can predict the future so only two years then all perfect. Remember the recession? had taken more 4 years to come out of it. Aberdeen is soley reliant on oil jobs in center off city, this will have knock-on effect through out Scotland. SNP with out doubt based it's argument on oil, what other income would it based it's income on to support Scotland. Whisky is up and down, only survives on low tax, if we came independent tax would all go up to pay for it on fragile economy.
I'm amazed you can predict the future so only two years then all perfect. Remember the recession? had taken more 4 years to come out of it. Aberdeen is soley reliant on oil jobs in center off city, this will have knock-on effect through out Scotland. SNP with out doubt based it's argument on oil, what other income would it based it's income on to support Scotland. Whisky is up and down, only survives on low tax, if we came independent tax would all go up to pay for it on fragile economy.
Gosh! horror! Calamity!
We must be the only small nation that can't support itself even with oodles of oil left in the North sea. Here is the truth, we are flippin brainwashed into thinking we are too small, too weak and too drunk to help ourselves.
I'm ashamed of that and I feel sorry that you believe it too.
Gosh! horror! Calamity!
We must be the only small nation that can't support itself even with oodles of oil left in the North sea. Here is the truth, we are flippin brainwashed into thinking we are too small, too weak and too drunk to help ourselves.
I'm ashamed of that and I feel sorry that you believe it too. This may help suggest why not all would work out ok http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2014/09/08/scotlands-pipe-dream-in-three-charts/
rob murray
23-Dec-14, 15:51
I was told that oil prices are primarily low due to price manipulation between the big players not market forces as a fight back against USA shale oil. Arab countries can recover oil at a few $ a barrel which is less than fracked shale and much less than deep water offshore. So they can afford to see price drop more than the USA and North sea is even more vulnerable. So to use oil, whose price is controlled by others, as a means to bank rolling Scottish independence was always a high risk strategy. I agree with comments - we have been saved from very early ruin by the skin of our teeth.
Low oil prices does not just affect direct workers - for example half built vessels are still on their chock being mothballed as not longer market viable.
Regards wave energy - the amount of money invested (wasted?) in developing this technology is a small fraction compared to what has been spent on fast breeder and Dounreay decommissioning. Long term it is a viable energy source and green, it just needs the right incentives and support to kick off. However, whilst land lubbers might like the idea of marine energy more than land renewables , it does interferes with other marine users.
Norway. Very early on Norway took the decision not to spend their oil revenues but to invest it and then only spend the interest (put simply). So Norway's home economy is not directly affected by oil prices even though an oil economy. It is more affected by international markets - which do respond to oil prices but dampened and slower. They also have very cheap hydro power and cause this to make up energy deficits.
Very well put, clear and truthful, we cant turn back time, the Norwegians were in a position years back to take the decision to accumulate an oil fund, we would have to have started from scratch with depleting resources and price volatility : a large percentage of the population were brainwashed into thinking that oil prices would be $113 a barrel and hence we could be "free" and create a more just Scotland ( nothing wrong with aspiring for a more just socially inclusive Scotland..how will it be paid for ? ) and that Scotland was the "Saudi Arabia" of renewables...both courtsey of Alex Salmond and both massively, massively wrong. Salmon had a high risk strategy, to high to soon.
This may help suggest why not all would work out ok http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2014/09/08/scotlands-pipe-dream-in-three-charts/
That is laughable when unionist parties have been recently discussing an oil fund for the whole of the UK because of the fall in oil prices. You know, people on the No side have to agree or not whether the oil is a good thing or not and stop squeezing the last bit of propaganda out of this slump in oil prices.
You know, people on the No side have to agree or not whether the oil is a good thing or not and stop squeezing the last bit of propaganda out of this slump in oil prices.
No they don't.
No they don't.
They won't because they want to squeeze the maximum amount of bogus propaganda as possible out of it.
They won't because they want to squeeze the maximum amount of bogus propaganda as possible out of it.
But... that's what you're doing.
But... that's what you're doing.
No, it wasn't me who started the thread but I am all too happy to correct the OP on his misconceptions.
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