View Full Version : he said she said
Has anyone else noticed how easy it is to get muddled on these these threads: A typo, a wrong word, a misplaced punctuation mark. It is easy to pick apart what someone has typed as some people keep trying to do and there is nothing to gain by continuing to flout the rules of this board by continuing to bring up old posts for the sole purpose of winding people up. It is called trolling on this board and it needs to stop.
I think it is important to try and treat posts as ongoing conversations - if someone clarifies a post or amends what they have said it should be accepted if not the person who keeps harping back to original posts with out accepting the ongoing conversation should be warned, and if that does not work they should be banned as per the forum rules.
Have you anybody particularly in mind?
Yes Tristan, name and shame, I will if you cannot
I agree, Tristan, that it's important to treat posts as ongoing conversations. I certainly do, and I abhor trolling.
I like your new signature, BTW! :)
Thank you for that Sporran :D
If you feel it would help you do not need my permission to name and shame golach but I have no interest in naming and shaming because I am not sure how productive that course of action would be.
My post was an attempt to allow those people for whom the "shoe fits" to reflect on their behavior and perhaps find a more productive way to engage in conversation and debate without resorting to trolling though past posts to find every miss-placed word or phrase.
People come to this board to catch up on Caithness, engage in some debate, have a conversation and get a little bit of 'e' crack. I, and I am sure others here would agree, believe conversation and debate not trolling, is what makes this and other boards stimulating - it is the reason people come here. I am only asking that we keep it that way.
Royster1911
25-Mar-07, 10:09
Thank you for that Sporran :D
If you feel it would help you do not need my permission to name and shame golach but I have no interest in naming and shaming because I am not sure how productive that course of action would be.
My post was an attempt to allow those people for whom the "shoe fits" to reflect on their behavior and perhaps find a more productive way to engage in conversation and debate without resorting to trolling though past posts to find every miss-placed word or phrase.
People come to this board to catch up on Caithness, engage in some debate, have a conversation and get a little bit of 'e' crack. I, and I am sure others here would agree, believe conversation and debate not trolling, is what makes this and other boards stimulating - it is the reason people come here. I am only asking that we keep it that way.
Going back to a post you made last year, (joke). If it was not kept as history on .org then this would not be a problem. Do we need a history of what was posted? Im sure we do, for people to catch up on things. Its part of life in conversation to cast your mind back and quote things you have previously said. Is the .org not just like that? Perhaps it`s just that you dont like the quote but that does not make it a bad thing. If the quote is causing concern, speak to admin and they may remove it.
[quote=Royster1911;204822] Its part of life in conversation to cast your mind back and quote things you have previously said. Is the .org not just like that? quote]
That's very true. In a face to face conversation people may well say things that they feel afterwards they could have expressed better, didn't really mean "like that" ....but they can't actually unsay them.
Same if you're posting - and a particular post may seem hurtful or unfair to someone else. If somebody has said something that you find distressing, your mind does keep going back to it (or mine does!) The person who made the original post might not realise how much they have upset other people.
"Trolling"
This describes various practices including, starting a thread with a view to raising the tempers of others, bringing back to the top old threads that have died out naturally with a pointless quip, needling other members into a pointless argument. Accusations of trolling will be based on our own view of posts and the initial reaction by our members.
[quote=Royster1911;204822] Its part of life in conversation to cast your mind back and quote things you have previously said. Is the .org not just like that? quote]
That's very true. In a face to face conversation people may well say things that they feel afterwards they could have expressed better, didn't really mean "like that" ....but they can't actually unsay them.
Same if you're posting - and a particular post may seem hurtful or unfair to someone else. If somebody has said something that you find distressing, your mind does keep going back to it (or mine does!) The person who made the original post might not realise how much they have upset other people.
Me, I totally agree with that Angela.
Same if you're posting - and a particular post may seem hurtful or unfair to someone else. If somebody has said something that you find distressing, your mind does keep going back to it (or mine does!) The person who made the original post might not realise how much they have upset other people.
Exactly, which is why you have to treat posts and threads as ongoing conversations that evolve. If a poster was unclear or hurtful about something and they later clarify and correct their statement there is nothing to be gained by bringing up their old post unless the person is deliberately trying to provoke arguments, in-other-words trolling. People make mistakes especially when typing if we don't give them the opportunity to make amends that says an awful lot about who we are, and none of it is good.
"Trolling"
This describes various practices including, starting a thread with a view to raising the tempers of others, bringing back to the top old threads that have died out naturally with a pointless quip, needling other members into a pointless argument. Accusations of trolling will be based on our own view of posts and the initial reaction by our members.
I don’t want to assume anything so please correct me if I am wrong but it looks like you are accusing me of trolling so I am asking you to please explain your post.
Thank you
Keep a grip on perspective.
Forums anywhere are just for fun. Sometimes they become serious and sometimes not. I agree that some people can be pains in the rear but at the end of the day none of this is particularly serious.
Keep a grip on perspective.
Forums anywhere are just for fun. Sometimes they become serious and sometimes not. I agree that some people can be pains in the rear but at the end of the day none of this is particularly serious.
I believe that the forums are just for fun and keeping in touch with others aswell as being able to air you're views on differrent subjects, Which if done right can be enjoyable but there are some who just cant have a proper debate without trying to stir things up even when they have had things explained to them over and over again, they just seems to get some sort of enjoyment from going through folks posts picking away at certain bits and trying to twist them.
But i guess you will always come across one or two like that no matter where you are or what you do.
I don’t want to assume anything so please correct me if I am wrong but it looks like you are accusing me of trolling so I am asking you to please explain your post.
Thank youI am simply pointing out what the rules say is considered as Trolling.
Kaishowing
25-Mar-07, 15:32
As am I concerning:
Duplicate Posting
Our forum is a fairly neat and tidy place (makes it easier to use). However, some users feel that in order to get their point across, they should post their views more than once. This does nothing but clog up our system with useless duplicates and hence will not be tolerated.
Duplicate posting carries 1 Infraction point, duration 1 month.
I am simply pointing out what the rules say is considered as Trolling.
Good, I am glad to hear that. Although I am curious why, after posting, did you go back and edit it to bold a particular line. Unlike you to do something like that without a reason you always seem very particular in your postings.
It was your deliberate bolding of the line that made me thing you were trying to accuse me or someone in this thread of something rather than just making a duplicate posting of a rule. May as well add the other definitions of trolling which include
Deliberately posting false information in order to elicit responses from people who really want to help. A typical response might be, "No, Bart Simpson was NOT one of our founding fathers.
Deliberately provoking arguments on newsgroups or bulletin boards, with no other intent than to gain attention for the sake of attention. Originally: fishing by dragging a line fitted with one or more hooks behind the boat.
I am sure there are others.
As I say thanks for clearing up my question, glad you meant nothing personal by it.
[quote=Royster1911;204822] Its part of life in conversation to cast your mind back and quote things you have previously said. Is the .org not just like that? quote]
That's very true. In a face to face conversation people may well say things that they feel afterwards they could have expressed better, didn't really mean "like that" ....but they can't actually unsay them.
Same if you're posting - and a particular post may seem hurtful or unfair to someone else. If somebody has said something that you find distressing, your mind does keep going back to it (or mine does!) The person who made the original post might not realise how much they have upset other people.
i agree with angela....Some of you might remember i posted a very happy thread which turned into a nightmare...Itmade me realise that i should have kept my news to myself...I joined the org because i was told that it was a fun place to be but i found it so different when i posted my thread.....It put me off posting and i have spent a lot of time reflecting on what people said and i can say that i felt crap instead of great....But then there are alot of sincere people aswell....:)
changilass
25-Mar-07, 16:15
I think part of the problem is that new threads are sometimes started as a direct result of something that has been said on another post, whilst this is totally understandable, it can be seen as just another way of continuing the same discussion just in another way.
If the discussion uses examples, someone will ultimately feel that another poster is picking on them and that it is personal (this again is unfortunate but true). Clarification may need be sought to ensure that this is not happening,
Generalisations will always upset someone, why should the majority have to suffer for the minority that cause the problems.
I hope this has come out the right way, if however, you read it the wrong way, then sorry, but hey, I tried:D
I think part of the problem is that new threads are sometimes started as a direct result of something that has been said on another post, whilst this is totally understandable, it can be seen as just another way of continuing the same discussion just in another way.
If the discussion uses examples, someone will ultimately feel that another poster is picking on them and that it is personal (this again is unfortunate but true). Clarification may need be sought to ensure that this is not happening,
Generalisations will always upset someone, why should the majority have to suffer for the minority that cause the problems.
I hope this has come out the right way, if however, you read it the wrong way, then sorry, but hey, I tried:D
I know that some threads are started because of other threads, which is the way it should be in some circumstances, but sometimes threads that start off genuine are ripped to shreads because some feel it is right to "have the preverbial go"..unfair and unjust in some cases and it will put people off posting...
Not all people feel as though they are being victimised...but there are some that will find it a hard place to post..........Opinions from some can come over far to strong for some to reply without feeling like they are being attacked....Thats what i felt like when it happened to me...And to come back and post a few more threads, that to me were important..Maybe i have this wrong, but i feel that threads that cant warrent a good argument from some are mostly ignored.....
If people post on here it is because they want to share something with others or to get peoples opinions, not to find that they suddenly become the worst type of person walking...:eek:
Justine, it would not be the first time that a thread similar to the one you mentioned has been turned into exactly the same thing you suffered. When the Thread was locked because of some posters making some very distasteful comments a similar thread has been immediately started about exactly the same situation but phrased in very general terms and allegedly aimed at no particular person enabling the same comments being repeated.
Occasionally the same sort of comments are regurgitated using a different thread which has been started about a different matter which is vaguely related.
What is being said and what is actually meant sometimes is not intended to coincide.
Justine, it would not be the first time that a thread similar to the one you mentioned has been turned into exactly the same thing you suffered. When the Thread was locked because of some posters making some very distasteful comments a similar thread has been immediately started about exactly the same situation but phrased in very general terms and allegedly aimed at no particular person enabling the same comments being repeated.
Occasionally the same sort of comments are regurgitated using a different thread which has been started about a different matter which is vaguely related.
What is being said and what is actually meant sometimes is not intended to coincide.
maybe their intentions were not to be nasty or too opinionated,but there are some out there that seem to insist on bringing out the worst for some.....I am glad that my thread was locked.It was getting to the point of me requesting it to be locked.....I am now very careful about what i post as i find alot of poeple are very narrow minded....but that is what forums are about..Some times we get into disscusions and things dont go quite the way we want,but i dont think anyone should have to put up with alot thats gets said.....
Dont do or say unto others, what one does not like being said or done to themselves.....my father swore by that and so do i, but then i do like a good argument now and then....
Justine, yours is not the first case of somebody suffering such an attack on a situation not all that unconnected.
Justine, yours is not the first case of somebody suffering such an attack on a situation not all that unconnected.
no it aint but then it wont be the last either..I will just be careful which threads i get involved in ..its just a pity somany poeple have to go through it...
Originally: fishing by dragging a line fitted with one or more hooks behind the boat.
I am not a fisherman but is that not usually known as Trawling?
danc1ngwitch
25-Mar-07, 20:01
I am not a fisherman but is that not usually known as Trawling?
i was eatin pop corn while readin this thread, an i nearly choked[lol]
silently gigglin ta masel.
I am not a fisherman but is that not usually known as Trawling?
Trawling is a different type of fishing. If you google there lots of examples and definitions of trolling including one that links to trolling on Scottish lochs.
Bobinovich
25-Mar-07, 21:06
I think it is very important for both the thread starter and for each poster to be very careful about what they write. I would say it is even more important for the initial post to be totally clear otherwise the poster may be setting out and putting people on the wrong foot straight away!
IMHO far too many posters barge in in the heat of the moment and click the Submit button before reading through their post to see if the meaning can be misunderstood.
So, thread starters, until you hit the Submit button to start the thread take your time, compose and read through your post with care - especially where the subject can be contentious - and then you won't need to clarify or modify your original point as the thread progresses.
I think it is very important for both the thread starter and for each poster to be very careful about what they write. I would say it is even more important for the initial post to be totally clear otherwise the poster may be setting out and putting people on the wrong foot straight away!
IMHO far too many posters barge in in the heat of the moment and click the Submit button before reading through their post to see if the meaning can be misunderstood.
So, thread starters, until you hit the Submit button to start the thread take your time, compose and read through your post with care - especially where the subject can be contentious - and then you won't need to clarify or modify your original point as the thread progresses.
Excellent post and one that I totally agree with. Although I do appreciate mistakes happen and it is important that we allow that process to develop and people to make amends.
I think it is very important for both the thread starter and for each poster to be very careful about what they write. I would say it is even more important for the initial post to be totally clear otherwise the poster may be setting out and putting people on the wrong foot straight away!
IMHO far too many posters barge in in the heat of the moment and click the Submit button before reading through their post to see if the meaning can be misunderstood.
So, thread starters, until you hit the Submit button to start the thread take your time, compose and read through your post with care - especially where the subject can be contentious - and then you won't need to clarify or modify your original point as the thread progresses.
Excellent post and one that I totally agree with. Although I do appreciate mistakes happen and it is important that we allow that process to develop and people to make amends.
Well said, both of you! :)
Parts of the Org definition of "Trolling" is more akin to flaming than trolling IMO. True internet trolls tend to be playing a game - there is a point to the game, and that point is to win.
This site explains the old meaning of troll/ing -
http://www.jfo.org.uk/info/new/troll.htm
Wikipedia describes them as:
In Internet terminology, a troll is a person who enters an established community such as an online discussion forum and intentionally tries to cause disruption, often in the form of posting messages that are inflammatory, insulting, incorrect, inaccurate, absurd, or off-topic, with the intent of provoking a reaction from others.
The contemporary use of the term first appeared on Usenet groups in the late 1980s. It is widely thought to be a contraction of the phrase trolling for suckers, itself derived from the sport fishing technique of trolling. The latter can be compared with trawling.
The term does come from the fishing use of the term - throw out a baited line and wait for someone to bite.
The Org rule states:
...starting a thread with a view to raising the tempers of others (Trolling),
bringing back to the top old threads that have died out naturally with a pointless quip (Thread necromancy/necroposting)
needling other members into a pointless argument. (Flaming)
Obviously the catch all of trolling has been chosen to cover all these - excuse the pedantry...
The_man_from_del_monte
25-Mar-07, 23:21
Parts of the Org definition of "Trolling" is more akin to flaming than trolling IMO.
Yup, being a troll is a totally different kettle of fish.
Good, I am glad to hear that. Although I am curious why, after posting, did you go back and edit it to bold a particular line. Unlike you to do something like that without a reason you always seem very particular in your postings.
It was your deliberate bolding of the line that made me thing you were trying to accuse me or someone in this thread of something rather than just making a duplicate posting of a rule. May as well add the other definitions of trolling which include
Deliberately posting false information in order to elicit responses from people who really want to help. A typical response might be, "No, Bart Simpson was NOT one of our founding fathers.
Deliberately provoking arguments on newsgroups or bulletin boards, with no other intent than to gain attention for the sake of attention. Originally: fishing by dragging a line fitted with one or more hooks behind the boat.
I am sure there are others.
As I say thanks for clearing up my question, glad you meant nothing personal by it.
Your needing to take a doze of chill pills!! You are sounding as if posting on here is going to either destroy or save the planet!!
Lighten up, FFS!!
Your needing to take a doze of chill pills!! You are sounding as if posting on here is going to either destroy or save the planet!!
Lighten up, FFS!!
Bit rude of you to swear I think.
I don't see anything wrong with asking for clarity in a post not do I see anything wrong with with thanking jaws for clearing the air.
As for saving the planet, it we all stopped posting and shut of our computers it would do a bit towards conserving electricity[lol]
Bit rude of you to swear I think.
I don't see anything wrong with asking for clarity in a post not do I see anything wrong with with thanking jaws for clearing the air.
As for saving the planet, it we all stopped posting and shut of our computers it would do a bit towards conserving electricity[lol]
Swear? I don't see a swear word anywhere!
You still need to chill though - a bit uptight I feel!
Swear? I don't see a swear word anywhere!
You still need to chill though - a bit uptight I feel!
I thought the acronym you used in your first post seemed very clear, but it must be me. I am sure you have a perfectly innocent meaning behind it.:Razz
I thought the acronym you used in your first post seemed very clear, but it must be me. I am sure you have a perfectly innocent meaning behind it.:Razz
Yes, it must be you - LOL
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