View Full Version : Man comits suicide via webcam...
Reported in the news today, is a kevin whitrick, who hung himself infront of his webcam :eek: whilst talking in a chat room...Police were alerted when another chat room person saw what had happened and dialled 999...Police sped to his house, but were unable to revive him..:( ...His family must be so distraught, but i dont feel that it was fair on those people who were in the chat room at that time.....He had his reasons for doing it,but i think he went the wrong way about it...Uneccessary stress on the public.....
I cannot imagine what that must have been like for someone to watch another person hanging.....
Totaly irrelevent bit...My heart lies with the families of the 15 british navy personel that have been kidnapped at gun point in the gulf by the iranians...May they have a safe return....
percy toboggan
23-Mar-07, 19:36
They must have been a boring lot of beggars in that chatroom. A bit like that bloke in the film 'Airplane' when everyone he sat next to strung themselves up.
percy toboggan
23-Mar-07, 19:38
[quote=justine;204365]He had his reasons for doing it,but i think he went the wrong way about it...Uneccessary stress on the public.....
quote]
I must add Justine - you are a master of understatement.:D
i know but i dont like to express myself fully, it normaly causes arguments...
It's so strange because I've just returned from a suicide intervention course and we were talking about it this afternoon. I know there are chat rooms where people self harm and in one case they are trying to prosecute some of the people there for egging him on. I don't know if anyone was able to talk to him in the moments prior to doing it but it's such a pity they didn't try and speak to him about reasons for living.
j4bberw0ck
23-Mar-07, 19:59
he went the wrong way about it...Uneccessary stress on the public.....
I cannot imagine what that must have been like for someone to watch another person hanging....
Yep, every last one of those who watched had no "close" button on the browser window..... what a coincidence. Forced to sit there and watch to the bitter end..... :lol:
after having 2 friends (one very close friend) commit suicide I can't imagine anything more horrific. In fact in my lower moments i have imagined what happened.
I caught the very close friend trying to commit suicide via overdose on about 4 occasions whilst he was growing up - he moved away in his late 20's and eventually hung himself.
I hope that those people that saw it on the webcam were put off from ever doing anything like that.
I know that I can no longer watch scenes on TV or on film of this kind of thing.
I know that I can no longer watch scenes on TV or on film of this kind of thing.
Me neither, although I haven't had these dreadful experiences you've had Victoria.
The whole thing seems appalling.
I caught the very close friend trying to commit suicide via overdose on about 4 occasions whilst he was growing up - he moved away in his late 20's and eventually hung himself.
It's a sad fact but if someone has made attempts they are more likely to do it again and make it successful because the previous attempts have failed.
The_man_from_del_monte
23-Mar-07, 21:10
They must have been a boring lot of beggars in that chatroom.
LOL! just what I was thinking :Razz
I caught the very close friend trying to commit suicide via overdose on about 4 occasions whilst he was growing up - he moved away in his late 20's and eventually hung himself.
It's a sad fact but if someone has made attempts they are more likely to do it again and make it successful because the previous attempts have failed.
yeah I know - sad as it is we always knew he was more 'prone' to it. The attempts when he was younger were related to upbringing but he had grown up and go over a lot of these problems.
When he hung himself it turned out that the owed a lot of the 'wrong sort of people' money and he felt that it was his only way out.
God the emotions that we went through were unbeleivable. Us, his friends and family couldnt get our head around that fact that he never asked us for any help. He knew that any one of us could have helped him out of the situation he was in.
HomeFixit
23-Mar-07, 21:16
It must have been horrific for the other people in the chat room. Maybe sometimes people attempting suicide just want to know that someone else knows even if they think no-one cares. Looking on the bright side at least someone did care enough to call 999! That would have been really bad... if no-one had bothered!
HomeFixit
23-Mar-07, 21:29
God the emotions that we went through were unbeleivable. Us, his friends and family couldnt get our head around that fact that he never asked us for any help. He knew that any one of us could have helped him out of the situation he was in.
You are so right, Victoria, its difficult to imagine why someone wouldn't ask for help when they are that desperate. It is so hard for the people they leave behind. Maybe when someone is suicidal their self-esteem is so low that they don't want to be a burden on their friends and family.
When he hung himself it turned out that the owed a lot of the 'wrong sort of people' money and he felt that it was his only way out.
Friend of a friend did this last year for same reason. Left behind a wee that his parents don't get to see now. But anyway people don't think about what's left behind cause they are so focussed on death.
It seems that just asking the question 'are you going to commit suicide' can be the exact thing someone wants to be asked but so few of us do, get the connection first.
I can never understand why someone wants to kill themselves. I've suffered from depression and other stressful things but i would never ever kill myself and it must have been scary for the person on the other end :eek:
HomeFixit
23-Mar-07, 22:15
It seems that just asking the question 'are you going to commit suicide' can be the exact thing someone wants to be asked but so few of us do, get the connection first.
Its not like you can just drop that one casually into conversation... it would have to be a really close friend to be able to broach the subject of suicide with them. I have had friends who were very depressed and I suggested they phoned the Samaritans, not that they were suicidal, but just that they needed someone to open up to. When you are really down it is easier to be honest with a stranger over the phone than with a close friend who is emotionally involved in the situation.
I can never understand why someone wants to kill themselves. I've suffered from depression and other stressful things but i would never ever kill myself and it must have been scary for the person on the other end :eek:
I'm not sure we need to understand it. The most important thing is that the person is in pain emotionally and perhaps physically. There are so many other factors to consider as well. Yes very scary but with the right responses it can often be stopped or delayed. I've been on a LOT of training in my day but I actually feel that if I had to use the ASIST course I would definately be able to, amazing stuff. There is going to be one in Thurso soon and it's free. It's aimed at the community.
danc1ngwitch
24-Mar-07, 20:52
I can never understand why someone wants to kill themselves. I've suffered from depression and other stressful things but i would never ever kill myself and it must have been scary for the person on the other end :eek:
The human mind is a strange thing indeed.
Who really knows what went on in this persons life.
Possibly an abusive mother, father or brother in law.
Speculation says he possibly did it because he owed money.
Maybe he was sensitive towards life, had things that hurt
in his face day after day?
Laughing up themsels peoples or so he possibly thought while he did it.
Some people let them be selfish or not, can be cruel, wea out
even knowing it.
This man probably thought he was going to get help, because he probably
had no one.
Not another person he felt he could as much as talk to.
I think he probably did it on cam thinking his so called viewer friends
would be able to help him.
Poor guy probably had no one.
I feel so sorry for him, and i also feel for the ones who saw this,
for they have to live with this image for the rest of their lives.
I hope they bear no guilt for his doing.
It is so hard for the people they leave behind. Maybe when someone is suicidal their self-esteem is so low that they don't want to be a burden on their friends and family.[/quote]
People who want to die can't think about the future or what will be left behind, they are so focussed on dying. They don't ask for help because they are at a point where they don't think anything else will work.
It's so strange because I've just returned from a suicide intervention course and we were talking about it this afternoon. I know there are chat rooms where people self harm and in one case they are trying to prosecute some of the people there for egging him on. I don't know if anyone was able to talk to him in the moments prior to doing it but it's such a pity they didn't try and speak to him about reasons for living.
You people have no idea at all have you????
SORRY FOR SHOUTING, BUT DO YOU THINK HE WOULD HAVE DONE IT, IF HE COULD SEE ANOTHER WAY OUT??
get a grip you people - do you know the first thing about mental illness?? Aparently not!! You obviously have no idea what REAL depression is then.
If he could have seen another way out, he would have taken it - he must have been in such a state that he just couldn't face living another day and trying to get to the end of it. THAT is scary. Give the guy a break.
The_man_from_del_monte
26-Mar-07, 13:36
get a grip you people - do you know the first thing about mental illness?? Aparently not!! You obviously have no idea what REAL depression is then.
These people who have never suffered depression and spend their time on courses thinking they understand people with depression haven't got a clue.... I totally agree with you 100%.
These people who have never suffered depression and spend their time on courses thinking they understand people with depression haven't got a clue.... I totally agree with you 100%.
I agree it's very hard, maybe impossible to really understand something you haven't experienced yourself, and I would say depression is a prime example.
But does that make it wrong to try to learn more about it, in the hope of understanding? :confused
You people have no idea at all have you????
SORRY FOR SHOUTING, BUT DO YOU THINK HE WOULD HAVE DONE IT, IF HE COULD SEE ANOTHER WAY OUT??
get a grip you people - do you know the first thing about mental illness?? Aparently not!! You obviously have no idea what REAL depression is then.
If he could have seen another way out, he would have taken it - he must have been in such a state that he just couldn't face living another day and trying to get to the end of it. THAT is scary. Give the guy a break.
Calm down Dozerboy! No one claimed to know all the ins and outs of mental illness and depression.
I think you'll find people were mearly drawing on any experiences they'd had ie. sweetpea has recently done a course to try and understand it better and my experiences on being 'the one left behind'.
No if you don't mind we'll get back to our nice quiet, symparthetic thread wilthout all the ranting and raving.
hi.well after reading all the responses, i see again that i started a thread that could easily go off the rail...I still find it strange that he had to do it infront of the web cam, his reasons for doing it are his own and i just think that he could have done it privately...I tried it when i was 17, took an overdose, but i was lucky one i got help...I feel for his family and i hope the guys that put pressure on him for the money atleast show a little remorse for this. I am not saying it is there fault but i bet they didnt help the matter.....
hi.well after reading all the responses, i see again that i started a thread that could easily go off the rail...I still find it strange that he had to do it infront of the web cam, his reasons for doing it are his own and i just think that he could have done it privately...I tried it when i was 17, took an overdose, but i was lucky one i got help...I feel for his family and i hope the guys that put pressure on him for the money atleast show a little remorse for this. I am not saying it is there fault but i bet they didnt help the matter.....
Dont worry about your tread going off the rails - just ignore the people trying to stir it up and we'll continute to post nicely.
At the time I had masses of mixed feelings....anger at my friend...anger at the people he owed money to....sympathy, confusion then back to anger again.
It just felt like such a needless thing to do but then I've never felt like that so I can't comment about why someone would do that kind of thing. :confused
there are many many reasons for committing suicide....I feel some sence of loss when people take their own lives.....I have been low and know what it is like not wanting to live, but i would not have done it in front of anyone....Those that do that want attention and help, but to do t whilst chatting to people what was he thinking...He neverconsidered how they might feel, although someone did make a suggestion that the other epople wanted to watch, which i find strange......We need to find a way for people to get help when it is needed.
there are many many reasons for committing suicide....I feel some sence of loss when people take their own lives.....I have been low and know what it is like not wanting to live, but i would not have done it in front of anyone....Those that do that want attention and help, but to do t whilst chatting to people what was he thinking...He neverconsidered how they might feel, although someone did make a suggestion that the other epople wanted to watch, which i find strange......We need to find a way for people to get help when it is needed.
I agree that we need to find a way to get to these people before they do something like this.
Who know what was going though his mind - maybe he thought that someone would stop him before he actually did it. From what I heard some of the people on the chat room were goading him but thats just what I've read in the paper.
Jumping off a very tall building is the only sure way to commit suicide without changing your mind halfway. Any other method is just attention seeking.
HomeFixit
26-Mar-07, 20:48
If he could have seen another way out, he would have taken it - he must have been in such a state that he just couldn't face living another day and trying to get to the end of it. THAT is scary. Give the guy a break.
You are right about that Dozerboy, we should give the guy a break. When someone is intent on killing themselves there is nothing anyone can do to stop them... it must be a horrible, hideous place to be and no-one knows what it is like unless they've been there themselves, on the brink of life and finding death the kinder option.
But you should give everyone else a break too Dozerboy. Depression comes and goes, the darkness is followed by a time when things are less bad. Suicide is not an easy option and is often the last resort after months or years of procrastination, searching for another way out. If someone like Sweetpea thinks they could talk around a suicide case just long enough to get them out of their darkest hour then I say all credit to her. The next week or the next month they might feel the same again or they might have found another way to move forward in life.
Jumping off a very tall building is the only sure way to commit suicide without changing your mind halfway. Any other method is just attention seeking.
I am sorry but I don't like your attitude towards suicide. If you just label every suicide failure as 'attention seeking' then I think you could be trivialising a serious issue that affects the lives of countless people. Do you really think that people are thinking straight when they do this, do you really think that attention seeking is foremost in their minds?[disgust]
I am sorry but I don't like your attitude towards suicide. If you just label every suicide failure as 'attention seeking' then I think you could be trivialising a serious issue that affects the lives of countless people. Do you really think that people are thinking straight when they do this, do you really think that attention seeking is foremost in their minds?[disgust]
Agree with you totally here Rheghead.
Even if a suicide attempt could be classed as a "cry for help" it should always be taken very seriously....nobody in that situation is able to think clearly.
As Homefixit said in his/her very good post, if someone attempts suicide or even thinks about it because they are clinically depressed, it may be possible to give them hope to continue living, and avoid a great deal of distress for everyone.
Eventually they may be able to get through a desperately bleak time in their life and living may become bearable for them again.
I am sorry but I don't like your attitude towards suicide. If you just label every suicide failure as 'attention seeking' then I think you could be trivialising a serious issue that affects the lives of countless people. Do you really think that people are thinking straight when they do this, do you really think that attention seeking is foremost in their minds?[disgust]
If someone really wants to leave this mortal coil, who are we to stop them? Surely it is better just to let them get on with it, than to spend years prolonging their misery with therapy?
Legalise euthanasia, at least then they can do it out of sight in a non messy way.
If someone really wants to leave this mortal coil, who are we to stop them? Surely it is better just to let them get on with it, than to spend years prolonging their misery with therapy?
Legalise euthanasia, at least then they can do it out of sight in a non messy way.
Sorry, but I think this is the most ill-informed and unpleasant post that I have ever had the misfortune to read on the Org.
Therapy?
Euthanasia?
Non-messy way?
Have you got even the faintest idea what you are talking about? [disgust]
I believe it would be much kinder for those who really want to die to be helped on their way in a humanitarian way. That has to be better than going through years of therapy, being on suicide watch and only having DIY methods as options.
I think this keep them alive at any cost attitude is cruel. We treat animals with more respect than that.
This thread has been a real eye opener for me, maybe I am naive but I had no idea that suicide chatrooms even existed, I'm really shocked.
I believe it would be much kinder for those who really want to die to be helped on their way in a humanitarian way. That has to be better than going through years of therapy, being on suicide watch and only having DIY methods as options.
I think this keep them alive at any cost attitude is cruel. We treat animals with more respect than that.
I don't believe in keeping people "alive at any cost" either. I am in favour of euthanasia where people are terminally ill, with no hope of recovery or any quality of life.
But some people do go through times of very deep depression, often as a reaction to a very sad life event, when life is hard to bear and death seems far preferable- and possibly the only option. They do "really want to die" - at that time.
In an earlier post you referred to failed suicide attempts as "attention seeking". That isn't always the case. Often they are just that, genuine attempts that fail.
Sometimes they are "cries for help" when a person simply can't cope with life and doesn't know what else to do, but that doesn't mean that they won't recover their mental health and feel able, and indeed want, to live again. Quite often, people discover that life is precious after all.
It's always hard being bereaved, but bereavement when someone close to you has committed suicide is particularly dreadful.
The_man_from_del_monte
26-Mar-07, 23:04
I get very depressed at times and have contemplated pulling the plug on many occasions but my only real fear is that it doesn't work (ie: I wake up braindead or something) and I don't want to upset anyone close to me (not that many to upset as it goes). It's a bad place to be but that's depression for you, fortunately mine comes and goes and I've got used to being up and down like a yoyo... the "ups" are pretty uppy and the downs very low but I wouldn't have it any other way, some times it can feel good to wallow in depression (those that suffer from it may understand what I mean) there is nothing worse than these constantly "uppy" people telling someone to snap out of it though, if only it were that straight cut......
The_man_from_del_monte
26-Mar-07, 23:21
It's so strange because I've just returned from a suicide intervention course
And how long did that last.... a day or a couple of days? Had a friend go on one of these "ASIST" (applied suicide intervention skills training) courses (lasted a DAY) and he was giving out like he was some expert on the subject! A little knowledge is a very dangerous thing ;)
I believe it would be much kinder for those who really want to die to be helped on their way in a humanitarian way. That has to be better than going through years of therapy, being on suicide watch and only having DIY methods as options.
I think this keep them alive at any cost attitude is cruel. We treat animals with more respect than that.
insensitive or what, but if you ever get to that piont in your life when you have had enough i am sure that people will remember to put you out of your misery the humanitarian way.
I get very depressed at times and have contemplated pulling the plug on many occasions but my only real fear is that it doesn't work (ie: I wake up braindead or something) and I don't want to upset anyone close to me (not that many to upset as it goes). It's a bad place to be but that's depression for you, fortunately mine comes and goes and I've got used to being up and down like a yoyo... the "ups" are pretty uppy and the downs very low but I wouldn't have it any other way, some times it can feel good to wallow in depression (those that suffer from it may understand what I mean) there is nothing worse than these constantly "uppy" people telling someone to snap out of it though, if only it were that straight cut......
sounds more like manic depression mate - you should get yourself seen to and on medication. i believe they have good medications now, better than Lithium I think also.
insensitive or what, but if you ever get to that piont in your life when you have had enough i am sure that people will remember to put you out of your misery the humanitarian way.
And I sincerely hope they do. If I ever ended up so desperate only death was appealing, then I would rather it was over and done with, than being kept as a drugged up vegetable in a padded room.
You advocate enforced suffering, I advocate humane release from that suffering.
I think my way is far more humanitarian than yours.
And how long did that last.... a day or a couple of days? Had a friend go on one of these "ASIST" (applied suicide intervention skills training) courses (lasted a DAY) and he was giving out like he was some expert on the subject! A little knowledge is a very dangerous thing ;)
Why "dangerous" ? What's the worst outcome?
If I ever ended up so desperate only death was appealing, then I would rather it was over and done with, than being kept as a drugged up vegetable in a padded room.
But that isn't necessarily the outcome.
Are you saying that everyone who attempts suicide on ONE occasion remains/is labelled as mentally ill for ever?
But that isn't necessarily the outcome.
Are you saying that everyone who attempts suicide on ONE occasion remains/is labelled as mentally ill for ever?
Yes they are. Their Doctor will ask them on every new visit "Have you had any suicidal thoughts since I last saw you?"
Yes they are. Their Doctor will ask them on every new visit "Have you had any suicidal thoughts since I last saw you?"
No. You are wrong. This does not happen in every case.
You may have experience of this happening.
I have quite the opposite.
Just to clarify a few things. The course I did was for 2 days - 2 days more than most people will ever spend on the subject. It was run by 3 psychiatric nurses who between them had 58 years experience at New Craigs, I myself have 12 years experience in this settiing and another 6 in a different setting. I have personal experience on MH problems as well but will not go into that here.
25 people in Highland complete suicide every year and for each of them there is another 100 who injure themselves through attempts, research proves that those who attempt often go onto complete but more often are glad that soemone has intervened. 25 people also die on our roads.
Most people who want seriouslyto die do it when nobody is around, like when the postie has past etc I personally believe that to do something like this on a webcam is a cry for help. Suicide intervention is about connecting with that person, trying to understand what is happening and putting a plan of hope together with them.
Incidentally 2 13 year old girls talked down a guy of a multi storey a few weeks ago. What are we to say to them, you shouldn't have bothered? When asked the guy said he would be eternally grateful to them because he is now getting the help he needed and wanted but couldn't ask for.
A man jumped of the golden gate bridge and survived which is very unusual. When asked what his thoughts were as he was going down he said "this is wrong".
I couldn't care less what anyone on this thread thinks and have MY OPINION which I am entitled to and stand by (not something I would do if I came accross someone in emotional turmoil)
very nicely put...I agree that it wasa cry forhelp, but i dont think that the genuine people in the chat room would have seen it like that....I know of a friend whos father hung himself..He was found by his own son, he was hanging from a tree that they used to climb when they were boys....Then to add insult to injury the young boys younger brother hung himself from the same tree one year to the date of his fathers death....My mate fell apart and there was nothing we could do or say to him that could offer any kind of help....He went on to comit suicide..Leaving his mother without a son or husband...I feel fort hose that comit suicide and think greater measures should be put in place to help them....
Well done Sweetpea for taking the time out to learn something about this.
I wish there was someone like you around when my friend made his decision to end it all then we all could have helped him though his problems.
Do some of you out there really think that someone would rather die than live a happy life free from their MH problems? you're probably the kind of people that shout JUMP! if you see someone contemplating throwing themselves off a building. sick.
As someone who has suffered with depression for most of my life and battled a suicidal drive and a couple of attempts neither of which were, in retrospect, determined; I would suggest that it can often (but won't always) be a desperate last ditch cry for help.
A depressive nature makes the idea much easier to drift towards and palate but the reasoning behind suicides and attempts is an inability on the part of that person to cope with the problems that hang over them (and feel) like the sword of Damocles.
If the only upshot of 'saving' a person from commiting suicide is to merry prattle "that's it! you're alive, I saved you, things aren't really *so* bad - you'll see". Then shooing them away, leaving them to deal with exactly the same problems that they were facing them before without any real or constructive effort being made to help alleviate the load the person has to bear or aid them in dealing with it. Six to eighteen months later when they can get an appointment to see a Psychiatrist is no use at all. I think it's pretty clear why failed suicides don't fail the next time.
To veer slightly off on a tangent, Americans, if you believe the movies, feel some sort of sense of debt or obligation
that is placed upon the person who 'saves' another to help that person in accordance with promises made - spoken or unspoken, because of their intervention - a 'follow up' if you like.... but also there is implicit a sense of debt on the part of the person saved though it seems to be a little more woolly - indeed like a sheep to a shepherd.
Notwithstanding I also would do anything I possibly could to help prevent a suicide, but sometimes preventing it once, goodbye, is not enough.
I agree with that too emb123 but surely the first step is to save them first!
There do need to be better support networks in place to help these people after the 'saving' - like you said some people wait a very long time to see someone and whats the point in that.
I agree in some areas people can wait a long time for professional help. One thing that I think we underestimate is the power of ordinary people in a helping relationship. Some of the best work I know of (with all aspects of MH) has come about by people in the community.One of the aims of ASIST is exactly that, to train people in the community because suicide is far more commonplace than we think and there are so many people out there who have thoughts, attempt and injure themsleves and don't always complete suicide that need help. Anyone is at risk but obviously some groups more than others. The elderly for instance in care homes or alone in their own homes who don't have access to mainstream psychiatric help.
Dont worry about your tread going off the rails - just ignore the people trying to stir it up and we'll continute to post nicely.
refering to me per chance?
I was not stirring with my post. Merely stating that by the time the guy had got to that stage he was way passed the listening stage. I am allowed my opinion too am I not?
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