View Full Version : UDI for Scotland?
There is a lot of speculation on social media that if the SNP (or the Scottish Green Party) get a majority (30 out of the 59 Scottish MPs) in next year's General Election then Scotland's Parliament could legally issue a Unilateral Declaration of Independence. It is also a bold move since it also opens up the issue of how broken the first past the post voting system is terribly corrupt.
Alex Salmond has also hinted that there is more than one way (re. Referendum) to gain independence. For a moment I struggled to think that one through other than taking up arms but now I do see how independence can be achieved politically and peacefully.
The Yes parties' membership have skyrocketed in recent days and a Panelbase poll seems to indicate that a majority for SNP MPs is a definite possibility. It seems we are still in interesting times...
Just gotta say that I have never voted SNP before but there is now a very strong possibility that I'll be voting SNP at the next election, might even join the party myself, nearly did the other day but the website was so unresponsive.
Humerous Vegetable
03-Oct-14, 16:51
I think they have been overwhelmed by new applications, and now have more members than the national LibDem party, so please try again. Membership of the Greens has also increased.
Rheg - UDI is not an option. We need to get a majority of pro-independence MPs into Westminster next year, and get rid of all these We Know What's Best for You, So Dinnae Greet When We Gie You a Smack LibDem/Labour and Tory MPs.
There is a lot of speculation on social media that if the SNP (or the Scottish Green Party) get a majority (30 out of the 59 Scottish MPs) in next year's General Election then Scotland's Parliament could legally issue a Unilateral Declaration of Independence. It is also a bold move since it also opens up the issue of how broken the first past the post voting system is terribly corrupt.
Alex Salmond has also hinted that there is more than one way (re. Referendum) to gain independence. For a moment I struggled to think that one through other than taking up arms but now I do see how independence can be achieved politically and peacefully.
The Yes parties' membership have skyrocketed in recent days and a Panelbase poll seems to indicate that a majority for SNP MPs is a definite possibility. It seems we are still in interesting times...
You lost. Accept it.
55% of us voted before and we will again. Live with it!!!
BetterTogether
03-Oct-14, 19:13
Now let me see if I understand your correctly Rheg,despite having had a fair and just referendum which gave people two choices, either for Independence or for the Union. The results of which are now history but just too remind you, was 2,001,926 voted No and 1,617,989 voted Yes, which amounts to a clear and unequivocal vote to remain part of the United Kingdom.
You now feel along with your minority of social media compadres that its might be an idea to ignore the legitimate and democratic right of the electorate to have their word listened to and resort to political gerrymandering to get your way.
The fact that you even admit to having considered albeit briefly armed struggle shows how out of touch you are with the workings of legitimate democracy.
Lets all grow up. There would be no way the Scottish Government would unilaterally declare independence. This is a huge spin on one remark Salmond made. By that time Salmond will be a backbencher.
The only way Scotland, if ever gains independence is by a referendum of the people of Scotland. End of. That is the only way any Scottish government would go. Ask any member of this government & they will say the same thing.
This is a non story. I have no intention of saying anything else on it as I have better things to do
Lets all grow up. There would be no way the Scottish Government would unilaterally declare independence. This is a huge spin on one remark Salmond made. By that time Salmond will be a backbencher.
The only way Scotland, if ever gains independence is by a referendum of the people of Scotland. End of. That is the only way any Scottish government would go. Ask any member of this government & they will say the same thing.
This is a non story. I have no intention of saying anything else on it as I have better things to do
Every cloud has a Silver Lining, :Razz
Last country to declare UDI was Rhodesia under Iain Smith and look what happened there.
TROLLING, that's exactly what Rheghead is doing.
It's fully known that many regular and popular orgers who bring life to this general forum, were either banned or suspended during the heated 'discussions' that took place up to the actual Independence Referendum. It would appear these orgers were inclined towards the 'NO' vote.
What better methodology than to throw a red-hot statement, one that will obviously cause a reaction into the ring and then (like he has) retire and watch the fireworks. Intending, maybe, to weed out a couple more of the NO incliners with there reactions.
The inclusion of the stupid statement; "other than taking up arms" looks certain to ferment division. Is it not enough to already have a divided Scotland, with family against family, brother against brother, community against community? How the hell can such a post heal wounds and bring unity, I have no idea.
'Trolling' is what it is, how will Admin deal with this?, although I am afraid after seeing perfectly innocuous posters being suspended for much more minor postings than this remains to be seen.
* not on here much but just checked and at 18.41 on 22 Sept I got 'a Report Post' from Squidge, can't remember the last time I had a red one of those!
BetterTogether
04-Oct-14, 09:29
Im afraid I do have to agree with Bekisman about this thread it was obviously started with the deliberate intention to incite and inflame people. This would make it trolling of the highest order, it is noted that the mention of taking up arms was brief as Rheg is no doubt fully aware if he made anymore comment than that the admin of this site would be duty bound to report him to the anti terrorist unit. Although one has to wonder about the mental stability of someone who would even consider such route no matter how briefly in a stable democracy.
It would appear on the point raised by Bekisman regarding people having been removed, that certain promises where made to reinstate accounts which can still be read on the other site but have been removed on this site, but it would appear in this case a mans word is not his bond and it was no more than a quick gaseous emission of almost noxious proportion.
The referendum may be over but it is sadly quite easy to see that one side does not have the good grace to accept the democratic will of the majority but wish to find ways to undermine that. That also seems to include giving negative red posts to people, so now we see the real face of the yes campaign,
Free !
Fair !
doesnt appear to be.
More like censored, rebuked, banned, removed, silenced.
Im sure such luminaries of the left such as stalin and mao will be smiling down on the tactics used by these people but the rest of normal decent society abhor them.
TROLLING, that's exactly what Rheghead is doing.
It's fully known that many regular and popular orgers who bring life to this general forum, were either banned or suspended during the heated 'discussions' that took place up to the actual Independence Referendum. It would appear these orgers were inclined towards the 'NO' vote.
What better methodology than to throw a red-hot statement, one that will obviously cause a reaction into the ring and then (like he has) retire and watch the fireworks. Intending, maybe, to weed out a couple more of the NO incliners with there reactions.
The inclusion of the stupid statement; "other than taking up arms" looks certain to ferment division. Is it not enough to already have a divided Scotland, with family against family, brother against brother, community against community? How the hell can such a post heal wounds and bring unity, I have no idea.
'Trolling' is what it is, how will Admin deal with this?, although I am afraid after seeing perfectly innocuous posters being suspended for much more minor postings than this remains to be seen.
* not on here much but just checked and at 18.41 on 22 Sept I got 'a Report Post' from Squidge, can't remember the last time I had a red one of those!
Are you being obtuse? It won't be the first time. No way was I inciting violence. I was merely trying to interpret what Alex Salmond meant by 'more than one route to independence' until I finally realised that he meant that if Scotland delivered a majority of pro-independence MPs in 2015 then that would be a legal basis for independence should Holyrood decide to do so.
Im afraid I do have to agree with Bekisman about this thread it was obviously started with the deliberate intention to incite and inflame people. This would make it trolling of the highest order, it is noted that the mention of taking up arms was brief as Rheg is no doubt fully aware if he made anymore comment than that the admin of this site would be duty bound to report him to the anti terrorist unit. Although one has to wonder about the mental stability of someone who would even consider such route no matter how briefly in a stable democracy.
It would appear on the point raised by Bekisman regarding people having been removed, that certain promises where made to reinstate accounts which can still be read on the other site but have been removed on this site, but it would appear in this case a mans word is not his bond and it was no more than a quick gaseous emission of almost noxious proportion.
The referendum may be over but it is sadly quite easy to see that one side does not have the good grace to accept the democratic will of the majority but wish to find ways to undermine that. That also seems to include giving negative red posts to people, so now we see the real face of the yes campaign,
Free !
Fair !
doesnt appear to be.
More like censored, rebuked, banned, removed, silenced.
Im sure such luminaries of the left such as stalin and mao will be smiling down on the tactics used by these people but the rest of normal decent society abhor them.
Well it just goes to show how shallow you really are if you are prepared to hide behind your own maligned interpretation of my words. UDI would be a legitimate method of gaining independence if Scotland returns a majority of pro-independence MPs in 2015. It would have extra legitimacy if the numbers that vote also got the popular vote as well.
Are you being obtuse? It won't be the first time. No way was I inciting violence. I was merely trying to interpret what Alex Salmond meant by 'more than one route to independence' until I finally realised that he meant that if Scotland delivered a majority of pro-independence MPs in 2015 then that would be a legal basis for independence should Holyrood decide to do so.
Mr Salmond was simply conveying to us that he is graceless in defeat.
Oh come on Rheghead
Insulting me by stating "Are you being obtuse?" (i.e. stupid, slow-witted, dull-witted, unintelligent, ignorant, simpleminded, witless...)
And Bettertogether: "just goes to show how shallow you really are" (i.e. people who don't have much emotional or intellectual depth...)
I'm sure you can do better than throwing personal insults to both of us, OK I can understand that the frustration of having your arse kicked by the majority of Scottish voters, may well cause you "chagrin" (distress or embarrassment at having failed or been humiliated) but lowering yourself to bluff and bluster is not on old chap.
Additionally methinks you're on a looser "trying to interpret what Alex Salmond meant" (failed politician).
Anyway one must congratulate the Admin on this occasion of the obscuration of this ex-forum thread
Oh come on Rheghead
Insulting me by stating "Are you being obtuse?" (i.e. stupid, slow-witted, dull-witted, unintelligent, ignorant, simpleminded, witless...)
And Bettertogether: "just goes to show how shallow you really are" (i.e. people who don't have much emotional or intellectual depth...)
I'm sure you can do better than throwing personal insults to both of us, OK I can understand that the frustration of having your arse kicked by the majority of Scottish voters, may well cause you "chagrin" (distress or embarrassment at having failed or been humiliated) but lowering yourself to bluff and bluster is not on old chap.
Additionally methinks you're on a looser "trying to interpret what Alex Salmond meant" (failed politician).
Anyway one must congratulate the Admin on this occasion of the obscuration of this ex-forum thread
I asked a question.
Up till now you have accused me of being a troll, a loser and an inciter of armed rebellion. I think you need to have a deep hard look at who is insulting who here.
BetterTogether
04-Oct-14, 15:54
Rheg dear boy you seem to struggle with a simple concept..democracy...what you are suggesting is that a party that wins one general election has sufficient mandate. Considering this country has just had a referendum in which only 37.5% of the electorate choose independence, the rest either didn't vote or voted to remain in the union.
I assume after two years of campaigning for a free and fair society youre not suggesting that the free and fair wish of the majority of the electorate be ignored by one party ?
As for your mention of armed insurgency, unless I'm totally incorrect you in your first post toyed with the idea.
Now I wouldnt for one moment be so crass as to suggest that anyone but a simpleton wouldn't realise that a lift in SNP party membership would only be from those who voted yes so would not give the snp any extra impetus in elections but may bring them extra problems as the influx of new members with new ideas muddy the water for them.
From what ive read in your posts though the snp do not veer hard enough to the left for you, maybe youd be more comfortable with the communist party
billmoseley
04-Oct-14, 19:16
Surely now it doesn't matter who won or lost. What matters is that Westminster stand by the pledges they made. i call on all the yes and no voters to join together to ensure this. This continued bickering its tearing a great country apart.
Surely now it doesn't matter who won or lost. What matters is that Westminster stand by the pledges they made. i call on all the yes and no voters to join together to ensure this.
I'd say what matters is the decision against independence. I'd have voted "no" in absence of any pledges.
I'd say what matters is the decision against independence. I'd have voted "no" in absence of any pledges.I go along with you sids , the pledges meant nothing to my decision to Vote No
billmoseley
05-Oct-14, 09:52
they may have not swayed your vote but do you not think if something that is promised should be kept?
but do you not think if something that is promised should be kept?
Yes, to promise falsely is a sin.
I do hope the leaders of political factions wouldn't do that!
Right, who was turned off by the SNP?*1
Who said that Alex Salmond should resign?*2
And who was running someone down for their 'irrational obsession with the SNP'? *3
*1 "I'm turned off by the SNP's irrational obsession with Scottish Independence, I just don't get it. Partly or mainly because they have a clever little answer for everything that is critical of it"
Did Alex Salmond tell lies?
*2 "I agree (w), it does look more than ever that he mislead us all. I think his resignation may now be the only option open for him if he is to save the Yes campaign."
*3 "I would dare to add that you (x) are the perfect example of one who has an irrational obsession with SI. It is a matter of public record of your track record on the subject. That is the problem that you have, how can you convince someone of the merits of SI when you are irrationally obsessed by it? You've been presented by umpteen examples of why economics of an independent scotland would mean higher taxes for all of us yet you don't acknowledge it or you simply say that you don't care and that is not your main concern."
Most certainly a Damascus Road experience!, but pretty rich navigating a 180 degree turn?
Answers please on a postcard to Gordon Lamb House...EH8 8PJ
Right, who was turned off by the SNP?*1
Who said that Alex Salmond should resign?*2
And who was running someone down for their 'irrational obsession with the SNP'? *3
*1 "I'm turned off by the SNP's irrational obsession with Scottish Independence, I just don't get it. Partly or mainly because they have a clever little answer for everything that is critical of it"
Did Alex Salmond tell lies?
*2 "I agree (w), it does look more than ever that he mislead us all. I think his resignation may now be the only option open for him if he is to save the Yes campaign."
*3 "I would dare to add that you (x) are the perfect example of one who has an irrational obsession with SI. It is a matter of public record of your track record on the subject. That is the problem that you have, how can you convince someone of the merits of SI when you are irrationally obsessed by it? You've been presented by umpteen examples of why economics of an independent scotland would mean higher taxes for all of us yet you don't acknowledge it or you simply say that you don't care and that is not your main concern."
Most certainly a Damascus Road experience!, but pretty rich navigating a 180 degree turn?
Answers please on a postcard to Gordon Lamb House...EH8 8PJ
It definitely was a Damascus road experience Bekisman! I spent years propping up the same old unionist propoganda like you do. As an Englishman, I was institutionally conditioned to accept that the full weight of English votes at Westminster made the UK into effectively an extended English state. I cared not whether the UK was extracting Scottish resources and spreading the benefits of them amongst 60 million rather than 5 million because I was convinced that the Greater State of the UK was a just cause. I was blind to the fact that Scotland contributed more to the UK than she reaped back.
But what I didn't realise then was that I consider myself to be a human being on planet Earth before I am English or a resident in Scotland. I see the political surge to UKIP, BNP and the tory right wing in England which is unapologetically British nationalistic and insular from europe. I fear the wider political landscape in the UK as being increasingly neoliberal in its economic policies and anti-environment. Very distasteful in my opinion. I also see the continual erosion of public services that I hold dear but those public services will be enshrined in a written constitution in an independent Scotland. As a socialist, I feel that totally compelling. A realised that a Yes vote was not for Scottish nationalism, it was a vote for social democratic change that benefits the people and the environment and not the elite. I see a No vote as a vote for elitism but I also see its resulting unfair society as an unsustainable society.
Sorry Reggie, I'll get back to your earlier treatise, but still can't find the exact period in which you had this amazing revelation, the actual point of realisation you were banging the wrong drum.. I have time on my hands at the moment and apart from my pastime of pulling wings off flies had a wee look over your various comments for the last 5 years.
By the look of it, going from what you've written below to now your near fanatical support of SNP and poor Alex (failed) Salmond, was, to quote from your past words on "Cloud Cuckooland"!
Of course I'll concede that anyone can 'change their minds' but to go from rampant anti-SNP to rampant pro-SNP (Policies), does, I'm afraid take away a lot of your credibility. Telling us that for example "Salmond knows full well that North Sea oil is on its last death throes", and many ideas and views which may well have influenced others reading your earlier proclamations, who may have taken these on board in their voting intentions, with the resultant swing along your previous lines i.e. you caused some to vote 'no', how ironic!
I digress and better not dally, as no doubt your Mentor and protector Squidge will soon be back from Hols and award me yet another red negative point against me 'on your behalf' - very surprised Reggie, as even you don't do that, but then you do know that for many years you and I have had these rather un-private tête-à-tête conversations and I actually hold no malice towards you.
A little morsel from your earlier utterances, about the political surges to BNP (thought their membership had fallen by 58%?.. Oops must desist, this will be for later.
Enjoy:
"It seems Alex will lead a one man campaign to push up the tax burden in a independent Scotland. In the meantime he is just content to treat his own dentist to dinner and a concert ticket. Out of touch or what?.. Alex Salmond in Expenses Row again. It seems Alex will lead a one man campaign to push up the tax burden in a independent Scotland. .. Ah right, that must be the SNP that He was referring to as they are on cloud cuckooland.. The Scottish National Party have been accused of having private talks with wind farm developers about wind farm planning applications. Such activity is in direct contravention of the MSP code of conduct sparking fears that the SNP will sell out rural Scotland to a heavy phase of aero-industrialisation in the near future.... I see Salmond is trying to get the debate blocked from being shown on Scottish TV channels. Blatant censorship if you ask me and pretty childish. Alex Salmond, does he just bungle along? He is now in favour of the Trident missile system. What next? A new reactor at Dounreay?..Salmond knows full well that North Sea oil is on its last death throes, Scotland will become a net importer of oil soon enough but he knows that Scotland sits on quite a lot of recoverable coal...Just wondering if the pro-independence voters are more certain then a delay to Autumn 2014 will lead to campaign fatigue/impatience and turn voters off thus being better for unionists. I know a vote in the 700th anniversary of Bannockburn would be better for independence but a 2 year campaign is a high risk strategy for the SNP et al. (you were right there Reggie!!)
By the look of it, going from what you've written below to now your near fanatical support of SNP and poor Alex (failed) Salmond, was, to quote from your past words on "Cloud Cuckooland"!
I refer you back to post #24. What you talking about? Are you on cloud cuckoo land? I've never supported the SNP.
I refer you back to post #24. What you talking about? Are you on cloud cuckoo land? I've never supported the SNP.
Whoops! forgot to put in 'policies' with ref to SNP.
"never supported the SNP"? It seems you Reggie a Cumbria lad and Squidge a Lancashire lassie are one and the same person! Squidge was also challenged about supporting the SNP, her response "This referendum is not about the SNP..." and the answer from
(Rob Murray) "only party ever wanted a referendum, the SNP, their sole reason for existence is and always has been to gain independence, so how can you argue that the referendum is not about the SNP, only they have instigated it, if they hadn't then we wouldn't be where we are".. good point. (Apologies to Rob)
My connection to this particular website (only) is very slow, NOT a MU Hack I hope?
Your fairy stories get more bizarre, I'm also a Lancastrian if you please.
Your fairy stories get more bizarre, I'm also a Lancastrian if you please.
Oh you are funny Reggie, of COURSE I know you are not a Cumbria lad, all I wanted was for you to admit that you and Squidge ARE one and the same person - ta!
Oh you are funny Reggie, of COURSE I know you are not a Cumbria lad, all I wanted was for you to admit that you and Squidge ARE one and the same person - ta!
If I admitted that then I'd get banned for having a sockpuppet ;)
Oh you are funny Reggie, of COURSE I know you are not a Cumbria lad, all I wanted was for you to admit that you and Squidge ARE one and the same person - ta!
Sad to say they are two seperate persons Beki' have met them both, they used to be reasonable folks, I blame the referendum [lol]
Sad to say they are two seperate persons Beki' have met them both, they used to be reasonable folks, I blame the referendum [lol]
Oh well never mind, that's one theory up the spout, must admit though they seem to speak exactly the same language, and getting a Red mark from Squidge on behalf of Reggie, did get me thinking they were clones.
;)
piratelassie
09-Dec-14, 21:59
you all believed the lies first time round, have spoken to many who wished they had voted YES, and they will not be fooled a second time !
you all believed the lies first time round, have spoken to many who wished they had voted YES, and they will not be fooled a second time !Well I was not fooled, and now Eck wants to join the place he wanted to get rid off, he got paid £65k the last time he left, will he return that now?.......I think not.
piratelassie
11-Dec-14, 00:21
[Q Lizz, do I take it from this remark that you agree with colonialism?
UOTE=LIZZ;1099187]Last country to declare UDI was Rhodesia under Iain Smith and look what happened there.[/QUOTE]
piratelassie
09-Mar-15, 01:23
You might think the independence argument is over, you can think again
Now let me see if I understand your correctly Rheg,despite having had a fair and just referendum which gave people two choices, either for Independence or for the Union. The results of which are now history but just too remind you, was 2,001,926 voted No and 1,617,989 voted Yes, which amounts to a clear and unequivocal vote to remain part of the United Kingdom.
You now feel along with your minority of social media compadres that its might be an idea to ignore the legitimate and democratic right of the electorate to have their word listened to and resort to political gerrymandering to get your way.
The fact that you even admit to having considered albeit briefly armed struggle shows how out of touch you are with the workings of legitimate democracy.
For all the hot air on this thread and despite the pronouncements regarding democracy by bekisman, golach, Better Together etc. there are many who are disillusioned with the Westminster elite and their paymasters. It’s a poor reflection of democracy that resides there.
The Scottish Referendum showed that people can be galvanized in to action. Currently there appears to be little difference between conservative, labour and liberal ideologies; they offer only the same old-same old. That’s why increasing numbers of people are looking for innovative change and something different.
There will be people who will vote SNP; not because they want independence, but because they don’t see any of the Westminster parties working for them.
UKIP and SNP will add an interesting dimension to whatever happens on May 7th.
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