View Full Version : Controlled from the moment of birth
The Control Freaks have come up with the ultimate lunacy. The recent Government statements saying mothers of young children should be pushed back into work suddenly make sense.
They intend to get babies into nurseries and child care as soon as they can get their hands on them. They will be subjected to close scrutiny to ensure they conform to the set standard model.
Take a look at this article and decide for yourselves what you make of what is intended for future new born babies.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=442389&in_page_id=1770
Personally I’m horrified at the possibilities it opens up and how such schemes have been use by certain regimes in the past.
I'm interested to know how other's view what is proposed.
j4bberw0ck
15-Mar-07, 09:11
I rather enjoyed the bit about babies "showing pleasure in personal hygiene".
They should all be taught to pooh in a small box, which can then be sent first class mail to the Minister responsible.
The Control Freaks have come up with the ultimate lunacy. The recent Government statements saying mothers of young children should be pushed back into work suddenly make sense.
They intend to get babies into nurseries and child care as soon as they can get their hands on them. They will be subjected to close scrutiny to ensure they conform to the set standard model.
Take a look at this article and decide for yourselves what you make of what is intended for future new born babies.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=442389&in_page_id=1770
Personally I’m horrified at the possibilities it opens up and how such schemes have been use by certain regimes in the past.
I'm interested to know how other's view what is proposed.Haven't you seen the rugrats and all the amazing things they can do when the parents aren't looking?[lol]
So at very same time that we are producing legions of illiterate and inarticulate school-leavers........Is this not exactly what the government wants, It makes their control over all the more potent over an apathetic generation?
Absolutely nobody bar family would or will be getting near any of my kids at such an early age and nobody else, (I would imagine), would feel any different unless for some reason it was convenient for them to do so.
It's difficult to form an objective opinion about the daily Mail article, without balancing it with some of the facts that the journalist manages to body swerve in her attempt at influencing others to her own discontent.
She has already caught a few big fish on caithness.org as the above posts will vouch for.
Whoever thought this scheme up is probably working at the frontier of development psycholgy. What most of the mockers call political correctness gone mad, I call searching for answers to mankinds hidden ailments.
As children we all go through a process of natural development. There are stages in our growth that come from knowhere, like a flower from a bud. These moments need to be understood and in my opinion we should all be privvy to the research done in this area. If we are not nurtured correctly at this stage in our development, not only the individual, but society as a whole is the loser.
Stress and depression are at epidemic proportions in our society and the opponents of political correctness who are influenced by comic book journalism dont consider for one moment the object of the excercise. Well, that's wrong. They see it as some big government conspiracy to control us even more than they feel controlled now.
One of my favourite quotes from Freud concerns this area of our lives.
Civilisation overcomes the dangerous aggressivity of the individual by weakening, him disarming him and setting up an internal authority to watch over him, like a garrison in a conquered town.
It's my opinion that the internal authority is the problem, not the people who seek to free them.
Shades of Brave New World!!
I thought Adolf was dead?
Apparently not.......................
This govt. won't be satisfied until they have total control over every aspect of our lives. If this report is true then it's yet another govt. department legislating on something about which they obviously know nothing. One scheme after another is rolled out only to be found that - surprise - it doesn't actually work because they didn't bother to consult those directly involved.
What are they going to do with the babies who won't conform? Apart from removing funding from the unfortunate nursery, how will they teach these wretched babies to gurgle, count their toes, play with their rusks etc.? Can you imagine the scene? Will there be cctv watching their every move, marking down or up as they score points. O brave new world.
Sure gleeber, our children need to be nurtured properly but by their family not as some government sociology experiment, reminds me of the film peeping tom.
j4bberw0ck
15-Mar-07, 15:19
What are they going to do with the babies who won't conform? Apart from removing funding from the unfortunate nursery, how will they teach these wretched babies to gurgle, count their toes, play with their rusks etc.?
As i understand it, any nursery which won't buy in to the new "guidelines" will indeed lose any government funding; Steiner and other nurseries which have their own curriculum will therefore have to compete with nurseries which are effectively State sponsored, so they may well close.
And when you look at how well State-funded enterprises - like the education system and the health system, not to mention government bodies like the CSA - function and fulfil their obligations, I'd suggest parents of small children should join the ranks of the Very Worried, quickly.
A) Apparently the DfES intends this to "reassure parents that their child's development is being supported".
How exactly...? By ticking boxes? Surely the money this will cost could be spent in better ways?
Most parents have a pretty good understanding of their children's development...most nursery staff and childminders have their hands full doing the job of caring for the children... without being pressurised with this nonsense...and they would raise any concerns they had with the parents.
I thought also that a supporting role in monitoring children's development was already carried out by health visitors....and has been for many years.
B) The children's minister has stated that she thinks "the examples [of monitoring] are really what brings it to life for professionals".
I would have thought what brought it to life was....the children there, in front of their noses...:roll:
The piece that struck me most forcibly was that children aged 40-60 months should "understand what is right, what is wrong, and why"...and should "value and contribute to own well-being and self-control"....
Well -wouldn't it nice if more politicians were that advanced in their development? :lol:
Maykbe we should turn the tables on politicians and start inspecting them in Parliament. Now wouldn't that be interesting? Given the way they behave even when the cameras are on them. Shouting, trading insults, interrupting, boring on and on to time bills out - I think funding should be withdrawn immediately.
Maykbe we should turn the tables on politicians and start inspecting them in Parliament. Now wouldn't that be interesting? Given the way they behave even when the cameras are on them. Shouting, trading insults, interrupting, boring on and on to time bills out - I think funding should be withdrawn immediately.
Exactly - many of them don't seem to have got past the "terrible twos" stage of development! [lol]
This is potty!
The only thing I can say is that it struck me if the government concentrated more on the kids born into situations where they are neglected, and looking for the thousands of kids that are not known to the system and missing instead of dreaming up more pointless exercises like this then that would be worthwhile.
Ok I know it is possible to trace back criminal behaviour in people who missed out on the necessary developmental stages between 0-3, even to pinpoint an exact event that might have happened or not as the case may be. It's these poor kids they should be looking for and trying to measure success with.
sassylass
16-Mar-07, 00:45
OMG that's wrong in so many ways! :eek: It's terrifying to think about it.
So, am I to assume that every poster on this thread has formed an opinion on this important initiative from reading the report in Jaws daily comic?
Has anyone considered trying to understand the research behind this and some of the other, so-called, politically correct initiatives and the reasoning behind them?
Of course, we can always go for the other end of the spectrum such as the two families in Plymouth who have been charged with goading their respective toddlers into punching each other and filming the whole issue. Now that should be the parenting model that we should all be following! (just kidding) ;)
So, am I to assume that every poster on this thread has formed an opinion on this important initiative from reading the report in Jaws daily comic?
Has anyone considered trying to understand the research behind this and some of the other, so-called, politically correct initiatives and the reasoning behind them?Sorry Gleeber but I gave up reading the Government's Official Comic years ago when it left Manchester and became nothing more thn a Nodding Donkey.
Pray do tell me, should I be reading Pravda or Izvestia to obtain correct information so I can just parrot the Official Party Line? (Just a minute all the bleepers are going off so I will have to check what today's Hymn Sheet says)
I take it you have checked and
understand the research behind this and some of the other, so-called, politically correct initiatives and the reasoning behind them so that you would have all the relevant information to be able to rubbish the article with some authority.
For those who wish to read the Official Party Line, the Government's version can be found at
http://www.surestart.gov.uk/_doc/0-BD0048.pdf
You will see on the second page when the baby should be able to "Glug Glug" and "Coo Coo".
You will be amazed to discover something I certainly had never realised before. During the first three months of life, babies communicate mainly be crying!
Wow, I wonder how much research it took to discover that amazing, previously unknown fact?
The list of "References" at the end of the piece makes interesting reading also.
Don't young mothers talk to one another about their babies any longer? I seem to recall from when my children were babies it was difficult to get them to discuss anything else.
I don't remember them running round putting ticks in little boxes though, how did they survive without them?
It's easy to mock research that describes a babys delight at drawing lines in a bowl of banana blurp with a farleys rusk.
As a caricature the link to the Daily Mail report is both funny and alarming but for anyone to suggest it approaches the reality of the situation would suggest that the author of the article and those who believe her are as ignorant about the subject as I am about nuclear physics.
Research has shown that all babies have an inherant, built in process where an emerging sense of self develops over a period from birth (some would say pre-birth) to 18 months. This process is very natural, of the utmost importance and most parents will recognise the different quantum leaps as they happen.
The ideas behind testing people who care for other peoples babies is as sound as testing children at diffent stages in their schooling. developmental difficulties based on the latest scientific research can be spotted at an earlier age than the "too late stage" that now plagues society with it's hordes of delinquent children.
I imagine most working mothers will be comforted in the though that their childrens carers are bing tested by the latest research available.
No Jaws, I hadnt read the report yo ulinked in your last post but I knew enough about the subject to recognise a mischief maker when I saw one.
Ther's a highly readable book called The Interpersonal World of the Infant by developmental psycholgist Daniel Stern, written 25 years ago and covers most of the ideas presented in this new initiative.
sassylass
18-Mar-07, 19:09
There's no doubt children benefit most from watchful, educated caregivers. In my experience, however, children's needs quickly and easily get lost in the tangle of bureaucracy created by well meaning but out of touch administrators. Often what looks good on paper does not translate to the real world.
Well said Gleeber. A child's development is "natural" and so is a mother's responses. I have yet to meet a mother who needs to be told her baby's first steps or first words are a landmark. These are not test for those who are working in Child Care, they should already have been trained far beyond those levels.
These are "developments" that are to be checked on and "ticked off" similar to marking the correct answer on a exam sheet. These are tests for the babies, and not, as you doubtless very well know, in any way a teat of the ability of Child Carers to recognise them.
To try to imply that this is to ensure parents are reassured that Child Carers are capable of seeing such things is clearly nonsense. I am quite certain that most Child Carers are already well aware that new born babies communicate by crying. That is the level that most of the “Guide Lines” are set at.
This is simply about gathering as much information as possible simply for the sake of it.
Were it intended to do anything to improve the early discovery of medical problems I would immediately say it was a good thing. This, however is simply to give “pass marks” to the vast majority of perfectly healthy babies.
It is Record Keeping for the sake of Keeping Records and nothing else.
Were I simply “Scare-mongering” there are a lot of suggestions I could make about the reasons for keeping such information, but have not done so.
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