Land Closure

[taliesinnorth]

Now then,

How legal is it for a "landowner" to forcibly bar access to an area of land? Particularly if that piece of land has a "right-of-way" across it.

I refer to the path between Scrabster lighthouse and Holborn Head. I saw the annual request sign (No dogs or walkers - Lambing) was up a couple of weeks ago, but wasnt heading in that direction at the time. However, last night I was travelling along the coast from Scrabster Quarry to the Lighthouse. When we arrived at the gate it was very securely tied shut with barbed wire. We had to climb the fence to access the road, I dont think we did any damage to the fence (but we were three men, and of a fair weight for a fence), fortunately we did no damage to ourselves as that may have been a different story.

As a regular visitor to "open land" I have alot of respect for the work done on the farms/crofts and estates around Scotland (even England), however I do get a little wound-up when faced with forcible restraint.

I believe the Land Access reform requires a landowner to give 6 weeks notice of closure of land, a court order, and must provide a reasonable alternative route if a right of way is involved.

I think the best way forward will be to consult the Highland Council Access officer for advice.

By the way, there wasnt a sheep nor lamb in site during our journey. They were all safely tucked away in an enclosed field.

taliensinnorth

[Tugmistress]

Hi,
I know exactly the sign you are referring to, i too avoided going across the tops to holborn head yesterday evening and used the coastal path instead (damn sight harder going) out of respect for lambing sheep. But like you i saw none.
As far as i am aware, there is no restriction on where you can walk on open land as long as you cause no stress to any animals around on the land, no damage to property ie fences etc and no damage to the environment. i am going up to holborn head again this afternoon but i will be taking the top path as i will be carrying a load of fishing gear with me, there are no sheep in there at the moment, not sure if it is the same sheep as around me that arrived on sunday.

[kat311]

The farmer probably had to tak this action due to others not following the "country code". Some people have no idea about how to behave when around livestock and to shut gates behind them.

[taliesinnorth]

I well understand the concern of farmers during lambing / calving concerning irresponsible access through land they farm. I have seen the results on many occasions and sometimes despair......however, the vast majority of people exercise responsible access as is their duty and right. You will also find that a large number of these people will help or even put right situations they come across...(ill/dead sheep, sheep on their backs, litter, reporting vandalism, etc.)

I believe that landowners need to get some information out at popular access points to their land and educate people why the country code is so important and isnt just another set of rules we have to follow.

Meantime, forcible restraint of access is not an acceptable solution...

[Tugmistress]

I went up again this afternoon, and yes the barbed wire was around the two access points to the field on the hill at the back of the lighthouse. If coming the way you came yesterday or whenever the first you know about it is when you get to this field, and as there is a stile there i wouldn't guarantee that everyone would notice it. The sheep are certainly not in the field the access uses, yes they are lambing, saw a couple of newborn lambs whilst we were walking back. Why is it necessary to use barbed wire? why not just make people aware that the sheep are lambing by use of the sign that is up anyway? anyone with half an ounce of common sense knows to shut gates, not chase sheep, and not throw litter anyway.

[grmacken]

get on to your counciler, they cant stop people using a public right of way, land reforms or not, people in hemlsdale had a simular problem and the comunity council has fought to keep a road public.

[~~Tides~~]

The new land access code and Land Reform Act Scotland means that a land owner has No right what so ever to stop you walking across his land as long as you are behaving resposibaly. Disrupting ground during lambing would not be acting responsibly.

Couple of useful links:
http://www.scotland-legislation.hmso.gov.uk/legislation/scotland/acts2003/20030002.htm
http://www.mountaineering-scotland.org.uk/access/lrs_bill.html

Equally, i think but am not 100% sure, a land owner has no right to move you on if you are camping on his land as long as it is short term and you are acting responsibly.

[kat311]

People have to remember that these sheep are someone livelyhood. People shouldn't be denied the right to walk in the countryside but just think about how the behave.

[taliesinnorth]

Thanks

Looks like we are all in general agreement.

I will try and contact the HC access officer and see if he will have a word with the farmer.

Thanks again for your replies to my post.

Dave

[The Pepsi Challenge]

This place you talk of, 'tiz where the fairies lie.

[~~Tides~~]

I will try and contact the HC access officer and see if he will have a word with the farmer.

Why bother though. The farmer is not doing anything wrong. Callin the acess officer is just waisting everybodys time. Why do you want to go up there so direly.

[watten311]

Have a little respect for the farmer in this case, do you know how hard it is being a farmer at lambing time ?? Late nights and early starts, and having disrespectful people like you mis-mothering his lambs and sheep don't help. Surely having to take another route for a month won't hurt you.....

[Drutt]

Why bother though. The farmer is not doing anything wrong. Callin the acess officer is just waisting everybodys time. Why do you want to go up there so direly.
That's a bit strong, Tides. Taliesinnorth has only decided to speak to the Access Officer, not sue the farmer for restricting access.

Surely "acting responsibly" means that you don't take dogs with you during lambing, as opposed to just not using rights of way at all in case there are pregnant sheep around? Which, you'll have noted from taliesinnorth's and Hamnavoe's posts, there weren't anyway.

Access rights are just that, not access-rights-when-it-suits-the-farmer-at-that-particular-point-in-time.

[Tugmistress]

Have a little respect for the farmer in this case, do you know how hard it is being a farmer at lambing time ?? Late nights and early starts, and having disrespectful people like you mis-mothering his lambs and sheep don't help. Surely having to take another route for a month won't hurt you.....

read back a bit, the sheep are not even in the access pathway area. they are in a separated off field.
Do you know the pathway we are talking about?..... in a not so extreme situation, the other route available 'could hurt you'.
no i am not being disrespectful to the farmer, the field next to me has very pregnant sheep in it too, the dogs are now penned unless in the house or out on the lead with me, do the sheep worry?..... no, they seem to like tormenting the dogs!
i have been involved with lambing a few years ago and i know the hours thank you very much. i also know it is not right what this guy has done. yes i did climb over the barbed wire the other day when i went fishing, in no way did i worry any sheep, go within 100yds of them even, yes i saw newborn lambs, very sweet, and carried on my hike the safe way.

[golach]

If you want to worry sheep....whisper "Mint Sauce" in their lowg
Golach

[taliesinnorth]

Watten311

You realy shouldn't assume you know how or where people were raised, nor what their experience and background is..........also, please take the advice others have given and read back through the posts....

My family has a farming tradition back to the mid 16th century in borders and north England, my brother runs a small holding by Brampton (Borders) raising sheep and fowl. my dad, blah blah blah...... Yes I do realise how hard farming can be.......thats why I opted out! By the way, you forgot to mention the all-nighters stood by lambing sheep...

The sign has stayed up most of summer for the past five years that I know of......do you know when lambing finishes? Thats right, about the time calving starts.....however our farmer doesnt seem to keep cattle. Will the barbed wire come off in May I wonder?

Taliesinnorth