View Full Version : Child Abusers at Westminster?
There seems to be a report in the news that there was a UK Government cover up of child abuse in Westminster. Plus there also seems to be a place called Elm guest House where UK politicians, entertainers and Sinn Sein members all mingled together in the 1980s to abuse children which were supplied by the local authority.
Is it too much to believe or did it really go on?
This was in the papers a while ago and again just recently. There is a credible witness apparently who has been quoted as naming MP's and dignitarys amongst other top people but thats about as far as the story got.
rich62_uk
06-Jul-14, 21:30
There is a rather well known Christian pop singer's name mentioned as being a 'guest' at the house too however how true this is I am not sure obviously.
Its linked to some papers which had a list of the guest at the house that went missing from a train some years ago. Children from an orphanage were brought into the house and abused, one of the lads (now an adult with a voice) spoke out about it and had death threats so has gone into hiding.
If this true and I think it is then it is disgusting
http://cigpapers.wordpress.com/2013/04/29/the-elm-guest-house-vip-paedophile-party-list/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeAc6UwfOuM
rich62_uk
06-Jul-14, 21:39
http://ukpaedos-exposed.com/the-civil-servant-in-the-home-offices-pie-funding-inquiry-and-his-academic-articles-on-boy-love/councillorspolitical-party-affiliated/
Names and shames them .... 125 of them.
Tangerine-Dream
06-Jul-14, 22:26
Russel Brand on Rolf Harris: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-0Rb0zweS8#t=355
I think that this witch hunt has gone way out of control..... a bit of groping in the 1970's was accepted as "the way it is", it was not a crime to grope. It was a crime to drink alcohol in the USA, back in the days of prohibition, so should the American police be setting up a taskforce to prosecute 104 year old citizens who took a swig of the devil's juice (according to some eye witness who has taken decades to come forward)... no, of course they shouldn't!!
I used to think that the word "evidence" meant a lot and I respected the British justice system for it's "requirement" of evidence before prosecuting.
This is now an absolute media driven witch hunt and the "trend" is to expose anybody who may have put their hand on a woman's bosom at a party back in 1972 type of nonsense.
"Rolf Harris groped my buttocks in 1981" why has it taken you 33 years to come forth with this information? "the internet, social media and the chance that I could get a few quid out of the old git wasn't available back then"......
Evidence based on the many collaborating to extract money out of the few.... it's an utter disgrace.
Treud na Mara
06-Jul-14, 22:58
I think if you had been a young and vulnerable girl subjected to actions that made you feel uncomfortable but couldn't quite believe we're happening to you at the hands of such an admired celebrity, you would be more understanding of the delay. Sometimes it just takes one person to break through that paralysis and testify to what happened to open the floodgates and give the other victims the reassurance that they too will be listened to, so they can come forward. And just because the establishment want us to believe that was 'just the way it is' never makes it right or acceptable in any way. It was wrong then and it is wrong now and unless all the perpetrators are psychopaths, in the true sense of the word, they knew they were doing wrong. It is time they all faced justice. The media can often be a force for ill, but at it's best it can also have the power to focus attention on places and actions that need to be exposed and properly examined. Just remember how long it took for the Hillsborough victims' families to have their voices heard and to get justice. Vested interests will always protect their own and go to extraordinary lengths to save themselves. None of us would argue that Nazi war criminals should not be prosecuted because what they did was a long time ago and now they are extremely old. These crimes may seem trivial by comparison but they have blighted many lives and that requires redress.
rich62_uk
07-Jul-14, 08:43
Some people believe that Jill Dando who just before her death was investigating a large paedophile ring involving well known people was killed because of what she was finding out and that there was a big cover up over her death. All this I believe will come out with the amount of rumours being proved either true or false and arrests being made.
Treud na Mara is right, just because a crime was committed some years ago does not make it ok to be ignored. The people in the public eye abused their positions in life ie the Gary Glitters of this world to abuse youngsters. They need to be brought to justice regardless of their age or place in life.
Do not forget that just because they are older does not mean they will stop abusing youngsters, even looking at child abuse photos they are abusing a child, a child was abused to be able to take that photo they are looking at.
This has to be stopped.
If some of the stories are true, this is a bit more than a grope of someone buttocks back in the day. The allegations include snuff movies, repeated and persistent sexual abuse of young children in authority care.
A dossier full of evidence was handed to a senior cabinet minister, he denied it. The MP who handed over the dossier very soon after had both of his homes broken into, in what was considered a 'professional' manner.
Recently the former cabinet member 'remembered' the dossier, but he passed it to someone else to shred, sorry, review.
Other files documenting evidence have apparently gone missing too.
Apparently some people wanting answers are getting 'warned off'.
There's no smoke without fire.
Despite having read some blogs about Jimmy Savile and coming to the conclusion that there has been 100's of lies been printed about him and before anyone lynches me I'd urge them to read anna raccoon blog amongst several others because I think any sane person might start to question the stuff that's been printed in the newspapers having done so .. even if they still felt the same. I had my doubts about the Rolf Harris situation and that perhaps he had been a very naughty man, however having read what is currently available as to the evidence I am beginning to wonder if a miscarriage of justice has occurred.
I'm not apologising for his general behaviour, having an affair with your daughters best friend is not morally a good idea, however he contends that it was after she was 18 ... she says otherwise .. so one persons word against another. A person who had a relationship with RH until she was 32! That relationship ended acrimoniously and she blackmailed him and she has a drink problem (not crucial but could cloud her judgement)
Another case (which appeared as the smoking gun) was that during it's a knockout in 1974 (when she was 14) he touched her inappropriately (remember he got 6 years for this) ... yet no it's a knockout with RH could be identified until 1978 when she would have been 18 (and legal) and she didn't get the location correct. Remember a man is going to go to jail - the facts should be 100% recollectable because we are imprisoning on no other evidence than one person against another.
Another case upon which he was found guilty the prosecution could find no knowledge that RH had ever been in Portsmouth and yet he apparently touched an 8 year old girls bum - her word against his - from over 40 years ago.
And finally the woman (15 at the time)who claims she was on tour with him and as a consequence of being touched (no rape or additional activity) she lost 6 kilos in weight during the tour. It was then identified that the event she claims could only have happened in the last week of the tour... so she lost 6 kilos in 1 week - that's some weight loss. She also accepted £33,000 in fees from a newspaper before she made the allegation .. she's clearly going to get a lot more in fees now.
As a man with 2 daughters and 2 sons married for 24 years and been with the same woman faithfully for 33 years .. I find it hard to believe that a man can be sentenced to 6 years for claims that have no corroboration and individually have very little to offer. In fact even as a group they have little to offer... I realise that rape is difficult find evidence of unless violent but there wasn't a rape charge amongst them.
rich62_uk
08-Jul-14, 10:32
You seem to hang a lot of weight onto the word rape. You do not have to be raped to of been abused.
There will be many things not released as yet and I for one do not believe he would of been given 6 years for the things you have mentioned, I do not claim to know any more than you do however I feel over the next few months more will come to light.
More women are now coming forward so we will have to wait and see what else he is accused of.
I don't hang any weight specifically onto the word rape ... I am quite aware sexual abuse has many aspects.
The latest information that is being bandied around in the newspapers and the media - whom I have now come to disbelieve in almost all apsects - is that RH had pictures of little girls and titles of websites are being used to identify this.
I haven't viewed these websites but the "other side of the coin" is suggesting that these sites are merely common or garden pornographic sites .. the defence robustly defended by obtaining photo id's of these women from these sites to prove their age. This is why those prosecutions were dropped from the allegations RH was obliged to defend himself of.
Now let me be quite clear, I do not frequent such sites and I'm not sure that I would condone RH doing so - however viewing such sites is not illegal. I notice that this website has links to Ukrainian chat rooms .. these are likely to be only one link away to the very websites RH has viewed.
When newspapers start throwing mud - I start to question their motives.
It doesn't sit easy with me that a girl of 8 would even know that she had been touched inappropriately by a "firm hand on the bum" in a queue of people and then held it with her for 40 years and then gets a man sent down for 2 years - 40 years later.
I thank God that I have been faithful to my wife and not indulged in male sexual behaviour because it looks like it could come back and bite you several decades later... should a woman have a vindictive nature.
From yewtree ... public document - anyone can read it
This is the kind of allegation that yewtree is forcing the NHS to investigate
Perhaps they do have to be investigated - but it demonstrates the delusion/confusion of unfortunate people
Operation Yewtree recorded an allegation that a former member of staff witness A, who worked at the RVI, had reported that Savile had visited the hospital around 1991.A full investigation was commissioned.
In addition to the allegation reported to MPS, during the course of this investigation, we were told of a further two or possibly three visits made by Savile. These visits were made to a Children’s Ward at the RVI (which has since been demolished) and the Northern Centre for Cancer Treatment (NCCT), which at the time was at Newcastle General Hospital (NGH). From witness recollections, these visits took place between 1987 and 2000. Witnesses also recalled seeing Savile in public areas. On all occasions, witnesses reported that Savile was accompanied by his entourage. T
hroughout the course of this investigation, no allegations were received in relation to inappropriate behaviour or abuse carried out by Savile, either in relation to patients or staff. Neither was any evidence found to suggest Savile had any on-going or regular association with any of the hospitals – or was ever unsupervised, or indeed alone with patients.In June 2014, the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children (NSPCC) published a report which implicated Newcastle Hospitals. One of the informants suggested that Savile had unsupervised access to children, but we were unable to substantiate or indeed investigate this, as the NSPCC were unable to provide us with the contact details . Therefore, the NSPCC report does not change the conclusions of this investigation.
None of us were in the courtroom or the jury room for the Rolf Harris Trial and so we have no idea what went on. Rolf Harris was sentenced using the guidelines that were in place when the offences were committed and he was lucky to get a lighter sentence because of that.
Sexual rules were different in the 70s and 80s and in fact even into the 90s. Patting someone's bum is one thing but putting a hand inside underwear has never been appropriate. Using, wealth, power or position to intimidate a girl or woman to putting up with unwanted sexual behaviour is never acceptable.
Many of us who grew up in those years have several stories of such behaviour. Women were told they should be flattered, told they were imagining things, told to grow up or just ignore it or forget about it. During these years a woman working hard to get ahead in her chosen career knew fine well she had to put up with lewd jokes, casual sexual touching and even more unpleasant inappropriate sexual touching or assault. If she didn't then she could find herself sidelined and thought of as trouble and this could affect her career. Even today the attitude that women should just put up with this sort of behaviour continues. Projects like "everyday sexism" try to highlight some of these issues.
Last week this article appeared in the guardian. http://linkis.com/www.theguardian.com/FZjZQ. This indicates that many many women are still facing this shocking behaviour. I try to hope that we have gone a long way to changing behaviour from the days when I used to get off the bus coming home from work and have to try to avoid the obnoxious idiot who would bellow "JUGS" down the road after me. He used to hide round corners to make sure that I didn't see him. His behaviour got worse and worse and more inappropriate until he got hold of me. I never told anyone. I felt like it was my fault somehow. But this article suggests nothing much has changed.
People can make excuses for the Rolfs and the Jimmys and all the celebrities and politicians they like but unwanted sexual attention can scar people for life. The sense of persecution, lack of control and often overwhelming shame because women and girls were and are still conditioned to believe that they are somehow responsible for the behaviour of predatory men.
All I know is that one persons word against yours could have you in the clink for certain allegations like sexual assault, sexual harassment, racial harassment etc etc. These cases are actually tried and with very little evidence you are at risk of a bigger penalty than if you'd stabbed someone.
You may think otherwise but having been on the receiving end of a racial aggravation case - which unbelievably I won .. most people don't... I know otherwise and I know how the police and the cps work towards their objective once you're in the cross hairs.
So I am not as accepting of court cases as the average bod who hasn't been on the other end irrespective of the actual allegation.
RH 's case doesn't sit well with me and having read JS blogs
How about one more - HEADLINES JS had sex with dead bodies
Any bets on the idea that it came from the yewtree report?
Barnet and Chase Farm (http://www.bcf.nhs.uk/docs/22838_0187118190.pdf?_ts=1233&_ts=1233) 25 pages by the Chief Operating Officer and 5 man ‘investigating’ team plus Capsticks Solicitors, LLP to provide legal assurance of the investigation.
Operation Yewtree recorded an allegation by a lady who remembered being a patient on an orthopaedic ward at BGH in 1985. She described having a conversation with the nurses in which they allegedly said they spied on JS and observed him having sex with a dead body.The conversation reported by the witness happened at BGH, however the incident of JS having sex with dead bodies was alleged to have happened at a different hospital.
That it is likely that the conversation with the nurses happened as the witness said it did however the details of the incident described are hearsay as they were not directly witnessed by the patient who reported the incident.
That the witness cannot be clear in identifying the actual hospital where the alleged incident occurred.
That the Trust could not identify the nurses from the patient’s records and therefore could not interview them to corroborate the allegation.The investigation undertaken by the Trust could find no record of JS being involved with BGH, either through fund raising events, VIP visits or charitable donations.
I have been wondering why the report that Geoffrey Dickens delivered to the Home Secretary has disappeared. I knew Geoffrey Dickens. not well, he was my MP. I met him a number of occasions in regard to my work and voluntary work. He was considered a bit of a buffoon. his constituency was Littleborough and Saddleworth which is next door to Rochdale and he had previously been the MP for Huddersfield which is just along the road. He would have known Cyril Smith well and I have wondered whether the person he described by saying "One of the people among those eight has been a friend of mine." was Cyril Smith. I see that today David Mellor has said there was no cover up, Norman Tebbit has said that there was a tendency to protect the system. I dont know what is true but Geoffrey Dickens was considered a bit of a fool, a bit of a bumbler and I wonder whether what actually happened was that people just couldnt conceive of these things happening and so assumed that Geoffrey Dickens had "lost the plot" a wee bit and so disregarded his dossier with just a token effort at investigation. I am rubbish at believing conspiracies and so can beleive that happened far easier than I can believe there was a wholesale cover up.
I'm beginning to wonder if the JS debacle is actually a smoke and mirrors for something more sinister because all the blogs I've been to have evidence to demonstrate the generally poor nature of accusations.
Perhaps the media moguls and civil service (Sir Humphrey) have been trying to hide something. We'll see - but I'm not holding my breath.
LOL Squidge
I seem to have gone the other way and found myself believing the conspiracies more and more as I get older.
It doesn't really matter either way because neither of us can do much about anything.
But once I started to read the blogs with an open mind it just flooded in and their claims seem perfectly reasonable and the good blogs give reference points.
Anna raccoon is currently reading the whole yewtree dossier and she's finding some genuine abuse cases - just not related to JS - Having read about JS he probably would have been happy to sacrifice his lifes' history to identify some genuine cases.
That doesn't mean I think he was an angel - just that I don't believe the sordid stories any more.
All these stories are sordid but you suggest that these allegations are the result of vindictive women. That makes me uncomfortable. See if woman realised that the man that assaulted her 30 years ago was arrested and she realised that he had done that to other women too does it make her vindictive to report her assault? Or does it mean that other women who were braver or maybe assaulted worse than she was had somehow made her realise that it wasnt "just me" or "my fault". Does it remind her of how awful it was and how scared she was and how she was manipulated by a predatory man or a predatory adult. Its hard to judge when we were not in the Courtroom but to dismiss historical cases as people have done as somehow a witch hunt is misunderstanding the issues surrounding this type of crime and its victims.
I'm not suggesting that all of anything are the claims of vindictive women.
I'm suggesting that having read the JS blogs ... and they run into hours of reading - not simply newspaper headlines - you find that there is misinformation.
Stuart Hall, for example, a convicted felon faced 12 allegations of rape and was acquitted by a jury. That alone tells you that some women were probably telling porkies ... a jury didn't even believe that a convicted felon was guilty of these lurid claims.
It's easy to assume that all women are nicer than nice .. particularly if you happen to be a nice woman yourself (I don't know if you're male or female) but perhaps you're simply a nice person.
I'll give you an example. Nice enough looking woman, seemed mature and sensible and well brought up. I asked her if it was reasonable that she had parked so far onto the pavement that my 2 young children and I had to walk on my neighbours lawn. 1 month later I was asked to the police station to answer a charge of racially aggravated harassment, spent 18 months in fear of the up coming trial. She claimed I might have had a knife, that I got into her car and threatened her children.
She seemed nice enough to me - just a pain in the ass car parker. I found out different ... wondering now if she'll turn around and say I sexually assaulted her as well.
I was found not guilty by the way ... purely on the coincidence that I assisted another parent who had run out of petrol. She told me she'd seen everything and was giving a statement to the police.
Her statement never appeared from the police investigation and I was informed there was no additional evidence. I got a statement from her via my solicitor. Had it not been for her I would have had a £2000 fine (and that's just for allegedly calling her a f p bitch - her statement not mine). At one point the CPS had me potentially being locked up for 2 years .... this just for being annoyed with people's inconsiderate parking habits.
The lass who stood up for me .. must have been ironic for the CPS and the police ..... she was an Asian woman... as a consequence of her testimony I was acquitted.
These things are rarely as they seem and the blogs point that out... not all - you do have to choose the ones that have done their research.
Ill maybe take a look at the blogs after the referendum..... i havent time for anything else just now lol.
Well apart from reeanctments and swimming lessons and making kit and oh yes.... work lol.
There are allegations now that Thatcher personally covered up child abuses while in government. She could even be more villified that Hindley. Rotten from the core.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/margaret-thatcher-personally-covered-up-3848836#.U8J_BXmPfSI.facebook
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