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SandTiger
11-Apr-05, 00:15
Being a relative newcomer to “probably, the best place in the world” I was recently approached by some overseas students who were doing a survey on how Caithness would benefit from tourism and what could be done to improve it. This coincided with a snippet published in Boat Anglers Monthly of a rod-caught Porbeagle shark, when out on a local fishing charter boat…

http://www.go-fishing.org/upload/files/porgy.jpg

What I couldn’t help wondering was, why boat such a beautiful creature in the first place and why gaff it in the neck to do so?(ie. Kill it) Now, forgive my city ways and sure a fish like that may even mean a man gets a weeks wages if he is licensed to land it but I fail to see how it makes economic sense to remove an apex predator that could attract recreational anglers with disposable income to the area, not only benefiting the individual skipper but also the local community – pubs, hotels, shops etc…

See the Drew report for the economical value of recreational fisheries to local communities here - http://statistics.defra.gov.uk/esg/reports/SeaAngling/default.asp

Within the angling community there is concern that a lot of the rod-taken porgies caught here end up in the market and this in turn will prohibit dedicated anglers from venturing up here and spending money. I hope I’m wrong and that the local skippers can convince me otherwise because you have a great resource here which needs to be nurtured rather than taken for short gain. If that is just how things are done up here than maybe it is about time that the wider picture is realised and things changed for the benefit of all in the community?

On the West coast the target is Common Skate and they all go back alive under the tag & release programme and there is also a high level of repeat anglers returning from all over Europe every year as they know that the fish are returned in good health with a real prospect of catching maybe an even bigger one on the next visit as they have had a chance to grow and also reproduce.

gleeber
11-Apr-05, 09:00
I think the only way fishermen would release something so beautiful after catching it would be with government legislation.
You just have to look at the satisfaction and pride on the face of the young bloke in the photo to see that he has absolutely no concerns about killing one of natures wonders.
Deer stalking is a killing game too and it attracts killers (tourists) to Scotland from all over the world. How many would come if they had to shoot the deer with paintballs or spend the day shooting clay pigeons? The counter argument to your proposals could be that fishermen will stop fishing altogether if they dont get to carry out their kill. I think blood sports are popular simply because that is what they are....blood sports.

NickInTheNorth
11-Apr-05, 09:54
Gleeber, I have to take issue with you regarding your simple acceptance of the fish being killed, and your assertion that if the angler cannot kill the fish then they will stay away.

I have no problem with killing fish for the table. What I do have a problem with is killing for the sake of killing, or for commercial greed. The porbeagle pictured is only a small fish, returned to the sea it may well have grown further and provided a good target for future anglers. Killed it still provides no more for the angler that a photograph, and maybe £50 for the skipper, but more likley I suspect that it won't sell and will end up as fishmeal.

What do you reckon that the value of a group of anglers visiting Scrabster for a weekends fishing would be?

Let us say 10 anglers, fishing saturday and sunday. Staying Friday and Saturday in a local hotel, and eating and drinking for all they are worth. £3000 to £4000?

Well I for one will not be visiting Scrabster again to fish from either of the charter boats currently working from there. On one anglers are berated by the skipper if they choose to return undersized fish alive, and on the other it is clear that conservation is not a consideration.

When a conservation minded skipper starts operating in an ethical manner I will be back boatfishing from Scrabster like a shot. For now however if I visit it will be for the pleasure of a spot of shore fishing from some of the last virgin marks in the UK.

What impact has the current trend of catch and release had on the West Coast charter business? In truth it has CREATED the business. The boats that make money out of angling between Oban and Skye owe their livelihood almost exclusively to the existance of the Common Skate and the tagging program that has ensured the survival of that all too uncommon creature. Without C&R having become the norm down here charter fishing would I believe not exist. As it stands more boats are needed, anglers most certainly are not being driven from the area, rgather they are being attracted because they know that there are fish here that they want to catch, and they also know that the fish they catch will be treated with respect and returned to live and fight another day.

The attitudes of commercial fishing have no place in the Angling sector.

~~Tides~~
11-Apr-05, 15:58
And what chances are there of the same fish being caught again? Common Sence.

SandTiger
11-Apr-05, 17:08
And what chances are there of the same fish being caught again? Common Sence.

If tag & release is encouraged then we might start to develop an idea, common sense?

George Brims
11-Apr-05, 17:27
Now tag and release is a good idea from the point of view of conservation, but my only problem with it is why bother to catch something in the first place if it isn't a food fish? I have caught my share of Loch Watten and Wick River trout, and a few salmon, and fished the sea off California and Hawaii, but I've never fished for something like a porbeagle that I wouldn't want to eat. That just reduces fishing to the level of fox hunting - killing for killing's sake. And even a released fish must surely have some chance of NOT surviving, from the trauma of being caught, and potentially infection from being wounded by the hook and/or tag.

My other major objection is that sharks worldwide are endangered. Huge numbers (totalling approximately 240,00 tons a year) are caught as bycatch in commercial fishing for other species and thrown away as trash, and tens of MILLIONS are slaughtered for their fins, used in shark fin soup. The whole ecology of the world's oceans is under attack from pollution, global warming, and overfishing, and pulling out the top predators to the point where their numbers are seriously reduced is simply going to aggravate the situation. For example Canadian Fisheries estimate hammerheads, makos, great white etc are down 50 to 90 percent in numbers in the northwest Atlantic.

NickInTheNorth
11-Apr-05, 17:51
The interesting thing about tag and release is it is a very valuable tool for the conservation of endangered species.

At a recent meeting regarding protection of the common skate the fisheries scientists present claimed that there were few or no common skate in several areas where the population is actually quite healthy. They really sat up and took notice when the actual captures and recaptures of skate within those areas was scientifically demonstrated using data from the tagging program.

That the numbers caught by a specific fishing effort can be demonstrated, and the migration of the population can be demonstrated by means of recapture data gives a deep insight into population of specific fish over time.

If the boats in scrabster would take part in the shark tagging program and practise catch and release, and encourage the commercial fleet to do likewise it may just be possible to:

a) increase the knowledge of the porbeagle aroung UK coasts
b) provide a boost to the economy of the area by increasing the numbers of visiting anglers

There is no better sight in my mind than seeing a great fish swim away to live for another day. Without an economic reason for being allowed to do so the chances of such fish being released is slim. I think we could learn lessons from Kenya were endangered populations of elephant are now being protected by the "poachers" who once decimated there numbers. The reason for this change - conservation is now paying more than killing.

SandTiger
11-Apr-05, 18:05
Hello George

My quickest recapture of a Common Skate is 40 minutes from initial capture into 400 foot of water – this tends to suggest that these animals are a lot more robust than we may give them credit for. Also if an animal is distressed then it will not be feeding. Recaptures are extremely common and can range from the same day to years later.

With regards to potential infections; salt water (saline) is a perfect cleansing agent.

The tagging programs are actively supported by WWF, Shark Trust and other bodies as it is recognised that the valuable data gathered helps to build a picture in relation to our dwindling shark populations.

George Brims
12-Apr-05, 00:14
Well your sakte may have come back for more, but don't ever imagine sea water is a cleansing agent! Saline solution out of a sterile plastic bag yes, but sea water is full of bacteria. That's why many scuba divers routinely put in ear drops after a dive.

SandTiger
12-Apr-05, 09:41
Fair enuff, but I was trying to discuss the matter in relation to sea creatures within their natural enviroment not divers :)

Tugmistress
12-Apr-05, 09:51
I think the only way fishermen would release something so beautiful after catching it would be with government legislation.
You just have to look at the satisfaction and pride on the face of the young bloke in the photo to see that he has absolutely no concerns about killing one of natures wonders.
Deer stalking is a killing game too and it attracts killers (tourists) to Scotland from all over the world. How many would come if they had to shoot the deer with paintballs or spend the day shooting clay pigeons? The counter argument to your proposals could be that fishermen will stop fishing altogether if they dont get to carry out their kill. I think blood sports are popular simply because that is what they are....blood sports.

I can understand the bloke being proud of his catch and you can't exactly photograph yourself holding a 'large' shark that is still alive, but in reality this size of porgie is basically the equivalent of taking a 'teenager' :( they can grow to upwards of 600lbs. Deer stalking is a totally different kettle of fish (excuse the pun) they are not a predator, let alone one of the top predators around. they are a grazing animal, they are also killed to control numbers and keep the damage they do to a minimum around the land. The porgie is not yet on the endangered list, but it soon will be if we do not control or try to control the killing of such creatures. If you do some reading of the sea fishing forums (of which there are plenty) you will find that 99% ish of anglers return most of their catch alive and take what they want for the table, the same as when people shoot deer for the table.
to save you doing a search, here are a couple of links you may like to look at;

http://www.anglersnet.co.uk/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=forum;f=2

http://www.nesa.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=XForum&file=index

http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/fish/Gallery/Descript/Porbeagle/Porbeagle.html