View Full Version : Jobless to be forced into work
Just heard on the news that the govt gave the go-ahead for a new "scheme to help jobless into work" starting as of today. But for scheme to help - read - forced into doing menial tasks and those such as grafitti removal, charity work, urban area cleanups amongst others with 100% risk of forfeiture of benefits for refusal or non-compliance.
While i'm all for any type of work being made available for lardasses, i feel it isn't right that those people should be forced into jobs that are to be created and provided solely for those on long term benefits when those same jobs could be made available to those that are actually wanting to work!
I guess what this means is that the jobs will be so mundane, soul-destroying or dirty that the long term unemployed, the ones they are aimed at, will get fed up or refuse to do the jobs and lose their benefits. Therein lies the sting!, digging a little deeper, the benefits lost will not only be unemployment benefit but housing benefit too! so "if you don't want to do the crappy unpaid work, go find a job and somewhere else to live" seems to be the message!
What a way to cut unemployment figures and reduce the welfar bill.......sad....
hopefully it is the end of the something for nothing era
why should folk be paid to sit at home
It's not about the "something for nothing era" or being paid to sit at home. If there are jobs that can be conjured up for dole scroungers, then why can't there be jobs conjured up for those that need and want work!
a "dole scrounger" should need and want work
a "dole scrounger" should need and want work
Define a "dole scrounger"?
The converse to Gaz's argument that why should these jobs be given to people when there are people that need jobs is why - if there is work to be done shouldn't people (including those who are long term unemployed) be paid at least the National minimum wage for doing the work?
These are not jobs they are forced unpaid labour. Forced because you do it or else. Unpaid because you get no more than the benefits that you get when you DONT work.
It is also costing £300 million. And do you know what the pilot projects have shown? That there is no difference at all to the number of people who move into work from this type of programme than from just applying for work. The rate of finding work is the same as doing nothing. The other parts of this programme are that people will have to sign on every day or attend Training. The evidence from pilot programmes is that this increases the rate that participants find work by 1% Thats £300 million for an improved job entry rate of 1%. Thats pretty much completely ineffective but hey, as long as it allows those of us who sneer and ridicule those who arent working to feel morally superior who cares.
The sooner we have an independent Scotland and can choose a Welfare system and Job search support that is less punitive and more effective the better cos this one is failing everyone - the person claiming benefits, the person looking for work, the tax payer paying money for lining the pockets of shareholders through the privatisation of the support being given to people who are out of work.
And btw there hasnt been a something for nothing era for years and years.
The converse to Gaz's argument that why should these jobs be given to people when there are people that need jobs is why - if there is work to be done shouldn't people (including those who are long term unemployed) be paid at least the National minimum wage for doing the work?
These are not jobs they are forced unpaid labour. Forced because you do it or else. Unpaid because you get no more than the benefits that you get when you DONT work.
It is also costing £300 million. And do you know what the pilot projects have shown? That there is no difference at all to the number of people who move into work from this type of programme than from just applying for work. The rate of finding work is the same as doing nothing. The other parts of this programme are that people will have to sign on every day or attend Training. The evidence from pilot programmes is that this increases the rate that participants find work by 1% Thats £300 million for an improved job entry rate of 1%. Thats pretty much completely ineffective but hey, as long as it allows those of us who sneer and ridicule those who arent working to feel morally superior who cares.
The sooner we have an independent Scotland and can choose a Welfare system and Job search support that is less punitive and more effective the better cos this one is failing everyone - the person claiming benefits, the person looking for work, the tax payer paying money for lining the pockets of shareholders through the privatisation of the support being given to people who are out of work.
Aptly put Squidge and telling it how it is. Just a pity some people see ALL the unemployed as wasters.....
Define a "dole scrounger"?
Dunno
Ask Big Gaz its his terminology
And btw there hasnt been a something for nothing era for years and years.
really, I dont think so
Dunno
Ask Big Gaz its his terminology
Simple really, seeing as you can't be bothered to give your definition, i'll give mine!.
My definition of a dole scrounger, just for Mi16's pleasure, is one who hasn't the will, inclination or need to get off his lardy ass and find a job, preferring to sit in his housing benefit subsidised home all day living off his taxpayer subsidised state benefit all paid for by a state to which he has probably never contributed to.
Bearing in mind that most people on jobseekers allowance/ESA/income support are decent, willing, hard working people and are perfectly capable of working but due to no fault of their own find themselves unemployed and therefore are perfectly entitled to state benefits if they so wished to claim them. They are also without a doubt seeking a job that just isn't out there at the moment.
Simple really, seeing as you can't be bothered to give your definition, i'll give mine!.
My definition of a dole scrounger, just for Mi16's pleasure, is one who hasn't the will, inclination or need to get off his lardy ass and find a job, preferring to sit in his housing benefit subsidised home all day living off his taxpayer subsidised state benefit all paid for by a state to which he has probably never contributed to.
Bearing in mind that most people on jobseekers allowance/ESA/income support are decent, willing, hard working people and are perfectly capable of working but due to no fault of their own find themselves unemployed and therefore are perfectly entitled to state benefits if they so wished to claim them. They are also without a doubt seeking a job that just isn't out there at the moment.
A decent hard working individual who has found themselves out of work should have no objection in doing a bit of work for their benefits.
Having said that, it does make me wonder what all the years paying into the system have been for if I cannot get anything back without working for it.
Surely our tax bills should be reduced as a consequence of these changes.
Which Government is introducing this?
Which Government is introducing this?
It was the UK govt that introduced this today. Not saying the Scottish govt are going to pay heed or proceed with it if we get independence....
Southern-Gal
28-Apr-14, 18:45
Imagine being the person employed to keep the reluctant recruits in check and vaguely working? What a horrible job that would be!
More unworkable right wing crap from Westminster. How long are we going to suffer fools?
Just heard on the news that the govt gave the go-ahead for a new "scheme to help jobless into work" starting as of today. But for scheme to help - read - forced into doing menial tasks and those such as grafitti removal, charity work, urban area cleanups amongst others with 100% risk of forfeiture of benefits for refusal or non-compliance.
While i'm all for any type of work being made available for lardasses, i feel it isn't right that those people should be forced into jobs that are to be created and provided solely for those on long term benefits when those same jobs could be made available to those that are actually wanting to work!
I guess what this means is that the jobs will be so mundane, soul-destroying or dirty that the long term unemployed, the ones they are aimed at, will get fed up or refuse to do the jobs and lose their benefits. Therein lies the sting!, digging a little deeper, the benefits lost will not only be unemployment benefit but housing benefit too! so "if you don't want to do the crappy unpaid work, go find a job and somewhere else to live" seems to be the message!
What a way to cut unemployment figures and reduce the welfar bill.......sad....
How long do you have to have been out of work to qualify?
How long do you have to have been out of work to qualify?
According to some newspaper reports the govt ar going for 3+ years but the plan is to have it reduced a year per year over the next 3 years so basically it will soon be that when you lose your job, there's a grafitti cleaning one for you down the dole office.
orkneycadian
28-Apr-14, 19:17
...forced into doing menial tasks and those such as grafitti removal, charity work, urban area cleanups amongst others .....
While i'm all for any type of work being made available for lardasses,.....
Whoa! Its a brave man who tells folk like council cleansing operatives and charity workers that they are lardasses, and that what they do is menial. Have you tried making that comment in the tea break room at your local council, and tried to get out alive?
A decent hard working individual who has found themselves out of work should have no objection in doing a bit of work for their benefits.
My thoughts exactly. If I found myself between jobs, I would be quite happy to go scrub some graffiti, help old grannies across the road or pick up empty Buckie bottles.
The benefit here is the chance to get out and do some work in exchange for your keep. For too long now, benefit has come to be defined as "money for nothing"
Up in the isles here, we have plenty of folk who move to the isles with no intention of working. Having moved to an island with a population of less than 100, there is automatically no work available that meets their "skills profile". So they can semi truthfully say that they haven't been able to find work.
A scheme like this really flushes out those who, till now, will claim "Oh, but of course we want to work - Theres just no work there for us". Now there is work for them, theres sudden panic that they might actually have to do something to earn their place in society.
Bring it on.
According to some newspaper reports the govt ar going for 3+ years but the plan is to have it reduced a year per year over the next 3 years so basically it will soon be that when you lose your job, there's a grafitti cleaning one for you down the dole office.
Well if you have been out of work for 3 years, you need help. I would imagine any employer would be very reluctant to take on someone that had been out of the habit of work for that long so I can see this scheme helping employability a lot.
Whoa! Its a brave man who tells folk like council cleansing operatives and charity workers that they are lardasses, and that what they do is menial. Have you tried making that comment in the tea break room at your local council, and tried to get out alive?
I never said that council cleansing operatives or charity workers are lardasses or do menial work so don't start with the fairy stories!
Should i say the same for a jobless trucker who can't find a job that all truckers are lardasses?
A jobless postman perhaps? are all postmen lardasses?
A jobless charity worker? are all charity workers lardasses then?
NO! so stop twisting the story to get a bit of attention and wow factor out of it for yourself!
orkneycadian
28-Apr-14, 19:41
...doing menial tasks and those such as grafitti removal, charity work, urban area cleanups amongst others...
:confused What bit about that is ambiguous? :confused
I think big gaz described the "dole scrounger " pretty well, it's the difference between someone who has made a career out of filling in benefit forms and the unfortunate individual who has been made redundant.No point trying to sensationalise his description we all know what he meant by it.
:confused What bit about that is ambiguous? :confused
the part that was said on the news report by the commentator. I didn't say it.
Nor did i specifically mention any type of job when i said i was all for any type of work being given to lardasses. If a lardass can do any type of job that is suitable for him then he should be doing it. end of!
orkneycadian
29-Apr-14, 19:24
If a lardass can do any type of job that is suitable for him then he should be doing it. end of!
So whats the issue? Graffiti removal, urban clean ups and charity work are all worthy things to be doing. I am not expecting that those who, by means of disability, cannot do any any particular task will be expected to do it. But being terminally lazy should not be a justifcation to not have to do anything. I expect that graffiti removal should be a task capable of being undertaken by virtually all job seekers. Those who genuinely cannot, can always be found something else to do.
The folk who should really be removing the graffiti are of course the dorks who put it there in the first place. But until we have a fit for purpose justice system, thats unlikely to happen.
So whats the issue?
Not This...
Graffiti removal, urban clean ups and charity work are all worthy things to be doing. I am not expecting that those who, by means of disability, cannot do any any particular task will be expected to do it. But being terminally lazy should not be a justifcation to not have to do anything. I expect that graffiti removal should be a task capable of being undertaken by virtually all job seekers. Those who genuinely cannot, can always be found something else to do.
The issue is that if there are jobs for the unemployed to do, then pay them a fair wage to do it....
What's the point in having a National Minimum Wage & employment laws to prevent the exploitation of workers, if the very body that set it up & enforces it can just ignore it themselves....
Bobinovich
29-Apr-14, 23:17
What's the point in having a National Minimum Wage & employment laws to prevent the exploitation of workers, if the very body that set it up & enforces it can just ignore it themselves....
OK don't bite my head off here but say a person is getting £63.10 in benefits for not working, and the national minimum wage for their age is £6.31, would you say it's unfair to suggest they work 10 hours a week doing these sort of jobs? That way the Government are not ignoring their own laws, the taxpayers feel that the unemployed aren't getting something for nothing, and those on benefits are able to do something for their money without being exploited, but still leaving them sufficient time in a week to look for employment. Thoughts?
OK don't bite my head off here but say a person is getting £63.10 in benefits for not working, and the national minimum wage for their age is £6.31, would you say it's unfair to suggest they work 10 hours a week doing these sort of jobs? That way the Government are not ignoring their own laws, the taxpayers feel that the unemployed aren't getting something for nothing, and those on benefits are able to do something for their money without being exploited, but still leaving them sufficient time in a week to look for employment. Thoughts?
To be classed as "Employed" by the Government you must be working 30 or more hours per week, thus entitling you to the "In Work" benefits many of the working rely on...
So, I would say that 30 hours per week is more than reasonable & if they can't find enough 30 hour jobs, then maybe it is time to admit that in a vibrant capitalist society, unemployment is just a natural part of the economy & stop treating those unemployed with so much contempt, they are just as much a vital cog in the workings of this society as anybody else...
There is only one way to massively reduce unemployment to a negligible level & that is communism & I'm sure you wouldn't want to go down that route.... Would you?
There is only one way to massively reduce unemployment to a negligible level & that is communism & I'm sure you wouldn't want to go down that route.... Would you?
The way our Blobby Blooter of an FM has been publicly stating his admiration for Vlad, communism might not be too far off for us Scotskis!:eek:
The maximum community service sentence a judge can pass is 300 hours over 12 months. The unemployed people forced to do unpaid community work will have to do 780 hours. That's 30 hours a week for 26 weeks and it won't improve their employment prospects. Why are we treating the unemployed worse than those convicted of a criminal offence?
The maximum community service sentence a judge can pass is 300 hours over 12 months. The unemployed people forced to do unpaid community work will have to do 780 hours. That's 30 hours a week for 26 weeks and it won't improve their employment prospects. Why are we treating the unemployed worse than those convicted of a criminal offence?
Why won't it improve their employment prospects?
The maximum community service sentence a judge can pass is 300 hours over 12 months. The unemployed people forced to do unpaid community work will have to do 780 hours. That's 30 hours a week for 26 weeks and it won't improve their employment prospects. Why are we treating the unemployed worse than those convicted of a criminal offence?
Or less than an average 2 days a week across the year, which leaves you over 5 days a week to find a job that you deem yourself to be worthy of.
Plus you will have gained new skills and experience, got back into the swing of removing the buttocks from the sofa and maybe met some new contacts.
The Jeremy Kyle show can be recorded for viewing later.
Its a win, win, win, win and win scenario
Why won't it improve their employment prospects?
The DWP's own results from the pilot programmes have shown that the compulsory work part has achieved no increase in those people finding work compared to those who were not participating. They also show only a 1% increase in finding work for those participating in the Ongoing case managent.
This programme is costing £300 million pounds for something shown to be ineffective. The government scrapped the future Jobs fund which increased the chance of someone finding work by 11%. In Scotland we have the Community Jobs Programme which is achieving 40% of participants finding work albeit on a smaller scale. All the evidence from Europe and further afield show these programmes do not work to move people into employment.
This programme is NOT designed to improve employment prospects it's designed to humiliate, vilify, and denigrate those people who are out of work for a long time. Some have suggested there should be an unemployment "uniform" that people have to wear. Utterly bonkers.
GIZZA JOB!!
About me:- Hard-working, etc,
Qualifications:- No formal ones but i did finish tenth in my class of eight so i left school with a big smile having "beaten" the education system, but i learned that I was not nearly as clever as I’d always assumed I was. I went on courses repeatedly and repeated them until i was passed out. I have excellent memory skills, can count to 100 without taking a breath, i have excellent memory skills, i can read the alphabet backwards and i have excellent memory skills too!
Work Experience:-
I can use a Word processor and learned programing and graphics all on a Spectrum ZX, i can also type, 5 words a minute, 7 with a strong coffee and a fag.
I can push a chair about the floor, sometimes tables too if they aren't too heavy
I am able to collect letters and papers from the office next door. I can walk more than 50 metres if needed to do so too!
I can comfortably check, alone if need be, that toilets and wastepaper baskets are not full and still there.
I can follow "to-do" lists properly, especially the long one on the back of the toilet door.
I am able wash dishes until somebody tells me it is time to wash the floor, also pretend i was cooler than i really am and that i was ok with all this washing up
I can pretend to be on the phone excellently. This got me a huge bonus in one job until they unplugged my phone and saw i was still using it.
Employment objectives:- To have my skills and ethics challenged on a daily basis
Reason for gap (if any) in employment:- Any gap in employment is due purely to being unemployed
Marital Status:- Often
Children:- Them too, to 3 different burds
Hobbies:- watching movies, eating Chinese and Italians, drinking beer with mates and reproducing
Reason for leaving last employment :- I have never quit a job! The company made me a scapegoat, just like the previous four did
Current salary:- circa £3500 p.a. plus housing benefit. Desired Salary:- £250,000 plus bonus, commission, company car, house and personal assistant.
Please state why you would want this job:- All in all, my relationship with social security benefits is growing old and i need to move on from several years of working with them and to better myself.
Update to CV on 30 april 2014 due to new govt ruling:-
Recently done a dole program so i can scrub off tag marks and whistle at the passing females but it's not really the kind of thing i want to do, especially when it's cold...and wet....and windy...oh and when Jeremy Kyle show or "the great escape" is on!. Looking more along the lines of a more relaxed and casual, indoor, laid back kind of day.
Just joined this debate, I think its right people on the dole should do something, but its wrong to call it "community service" as isn't that something criminals do as an alternative to jail ?
orkneycadian
30-Apr-14, 18:52
The maximum community service sentence a judge can pass is 300 hours over 12 months. The unemployed people forced to do unpaid community work will have to do 780 hours. That's 30 hours a week for 26 weeks and it won't improve their employment prospects. Why are we treating the unemployed worse than those convicted of a criminal offence?
Er, I think you will find that the convicted doing community service do not get paid....
I know that ... However the Most someone who broke the law and is sentenced would have to do is 300 hours unpaid community work - someone unemployed has to do more than double that. And if we are saying the unemployed are "paid" through their benefits to do this "work" then they should be paid the NMW. And if they are "paid" they shouldn't be subjected to the bedroom tax but guess what... They will be. And if they are on the work programme and only getting benefits then they should still be counted in the unemployment figures but guess what... They will not be. It's a great big con. Smokescreen politics at its worst
orkneycadian
30-Apr-14, 19:08
But they don't have to do double the unpaid community work? They are working in return for their benefits, to get them work experience and generally get them into a work ethic. Working in return for benefits is not a sentence!
Er, I think you will find that the convicted doing community service do not get paid....
But they don't lose their dole money do they? i'm sure my mates kid didn't when he got done for fighting and had to do 120 hours.
orkneycadian
30-Apr-14, 19:15
Since this programme has not yet been implemented, I am sure your mates kid will have found out that he had to do 120 hours community service, while his mate, who is also on the dole but had not been done for fighting, didn't....
Maybe if your mates kid had been out working, he wouldnt have had the time, nor the inclination from watching too much Jeremy Kyle to go fighting.
The programme has been implemented in places which is how we know that it does not help people find work and is being implemented nationwide from this week.
But Let's look at the two people mentioned above. Person found guilty of fighting has to do 120 hours community work still gets his benefit and will do it a few hours a week. Once he reaches the 120 hours he will stop. If he can't attend his community work then it will be rearranged for him as long as he has a valid reason for that. Even if he misses a session he will still get his benefit because his community service will not impact on his benefit entitlement. He will not be taken back to court simply for missing one session.
Unemployed person who has been unable to find work will have to do 30 hours a week every week and it will not be rearranged to suit the person even if he has no valid reason. If he misses a session then he will lose his benefit for 4 weeks and his housing benefit He will have to do 30 hours per week for six months.
Seems like it's harsher, longer punishment for being unemployed than you get for fighting and other crimes.
Since this programme has not yet been implemented, I am sure your mates kid will have found out that he had to do 120 hours community service, while his mate, who is also on the dole but had not been done for fighting, didn't....
Maybe if your mates kid had been out working, he wouldnt have had the time, nor the inclination from watching too much Jeremy Kyle to go fighting.
Tell you what, I'll make a point of telling him that once he has run his next 1/2 marathon in aid of the charity that has paid for two operations to try and repair his sight shall i? Around 4 years ago, the lad developed eyesight problems. He now has severely reduced sight in his right eye and has almost lost the sight completely in his left eye and thus is jobless, because lets face it, who really wants to employ a nearly blind (and according to you) lardass layabout that sits on his arse all day watching Jeremy Kyle while bleeding the system dry and therefore he is just like the rest of them. Oh, and the fight was about some pisshead trying to trip him up deliberately and thinking it would be a laugh to take the piss out of a poor jobless, lardass, blind person who i very much doubt can see the TV properly never mind watch Jeremy Kyle!
You and your tarring brush severely need a rest !
The programme has been implemented in places which is how we know that it does not help people find work and is being implemented nationwide from this week. But Let's look at the two people mentioned above. Person found guilty of fighting has to do 120 hours community work still gets his benefit and will do it a few hours a week. Once he reaches the 120 hours he will stop. If he can't attend his community work then it will be rearranged for him as long as he has a valid reason for that. Even if he misses a session he will still get his benefit because his community service will not impact on his benefit entitlement. He will not be taken back to court simply for missing one session. Unemployed person who has been unable to find work will have to do 30 hours a week every week and it will not be rearranged to suit the person even if he has no valid reason. If he misses a session then he will lose his benefit for 4 weeks and his housing benefit He will have to do 30 hours per week for six months. Seems like it's harsher, longer punishment for being unemployed than you get for fighting and other crimes. Surely if you are on benefits and have to do this community work and then are also convinced of a crime which you are sentanced to community service, you would need to do both the benefit community work and the community service time in order to stay above the law and retain your payment?If that is not the case then it bloody should be
gingernut
30-Apr-14, 21:32
OK don't bite my head off here but say a person is getting £63.10 in benefits for not working, and the national minimum wage for their age is £6.31, would you say it's unfair to suggest they work 10 hours a week doing these sort of jobs? That way the Government are not ignoring their own laws, the taxpayers feel that the unemployed aren't getting something for nothing, and those on benefits are able to do something for their money without being exploited, but still leaving them sufficient time in a week to look for employment. Thoughts?
I think you'll also find that a significant number will also be getting their rent and council tax paid for them. In which case their weekly benefit payments will amount to more like £150-£160 per week. That equates to more like 25 hours of work per week at minimum wage.
I think you'll also find that a significant number will also be getting their rent and council tax paid for them. In which case their weekly benefit payments will amount to more like £150-£160 per week. That equates to more like 25 hours of work per week at minimum wage.
Then, if it's not going to cost the taxpayer any more money giving them a job paid by the taxpayer than giving them the benefits, then give them some dignity & a job...
Except that it wouldn't work out like that, being low paid they'd probably receive the "In Work Benefits" that so many low paid workers rely on & end up costing the taxpayer even more money...
Hey... Here's an idea... Why not make all those who are working & in receipt of benefits, after a week's hard work, pick up litter at the weekends to cover their benefits???
Then, if it's not going to cost the taxpayer any more money giving them a job paid by the taxpayer than giving them the benefits, then give them some dignity & a job...Except that it wouldn't work out like that, being low paid they'd probably receive the "In Work Benefits" that so many low paid workers rely on & end up costing the taxpayer even more money...Hey... Here's an idea... Why not make all those who are working & in receipt of benefits, after a week's hard work, pick up litter at the weekends to cover their benefits???Absolutely
rob murray
01-May-14, 14:12
Ok we live in hard times, aint thru the woods yet according to government, hence economic arguement to lower benefits coupled by the make them work fascists ( never mind the fact if we are so bloody broke how come we can afford to buy paintings costing milions bought for the state using our money ) If these clowns running the country had any business expereince they would know that the first thing that goes in a business down turn is all non core business expenses...so all money, until we get sustained growth ( hence more real jobs ) should be spent on advancing the economic well being off the country not p***ed away on frivalous nonsense.
Lowering benefits coupled by the make them work fascists..... A good example is Hitlers Germany which supposedly grew massively over a 4 year period in economic terms ( achieving almost zero unemployment ) , this should have caused inflation ( wage / price psuh inflation ) it didnt, cos many people were made to work for nowt. In July 1934 the Hitler government formed the Reichsarbeitsdienst (the RAD, or ‘National Labour Service’). The RAD attacked unemployment by conscripting out-of-work Germans into vast work teams. RAD workers were given an armband, a shovel and a bicycle, then sent to wherever public works, construction, clearance or agricultural labour were needed. One of the earliest RAD programs was the construction of massive autobahns: hundreds of miles of freeway connecting Germany’s major cities. So lets come clean and stop the top handed fascism, be upfront, embark on major infrastructural projects, eg re do the A9 using unemployed people, formed into a National Labour Service, wor,k or if they refuse, send them to concentration camps ( state work houses ) or lets just shoot the idle and be done with it.
If you support the, make them work brigade, then I take it you also support the state spending millions of your money/ taxes on rubbish and your also the type of person who would take great glee in making the unemployed perform in a National Labour Service : oh and before any seperatists come on with the land of milk and honey a sperate scotland would provide : 2 words GET REAL !!!
What do you think would happen to welfare in an Independent Scotland then Rob? There is an impetus in Scotland to do something different already, why do you think nothing will change
What do you think would happen to welfare in an Independent Scotland then Rob? There is an impetus in Scotland to do something different already, why do you think nothing will changeDo please remind me Squidge, how is this welfare utopia you see in an independent Scotland be funded?
rob murray
02-May-14, 16:24
What do you think would happen to welfare in an Independent Scotland then Rob? There is an impetus in Scotland to do something different already, why do you think nothing will change
There is talk and some action on wlelfare / socital inequalities. I agree with you there,and it does come largely from the SNP, as labour is rolling over and playing the westmister game, cuts for austerity blah blah blah, forget LIb Dems / Tories they dont count : hence I wouldnt in an independant Scotland, presumably ruled by a labour majority, expect any massive changes : anybody can talk and promise all they wish, facts are, welfare will be dependant on economics / financial position of Scotland, fueled by real growth, backed up by a general attitude change and acceptance that long term unemployment is a very complex scenario to manage. Given these 2 interconnected variables I cant see any major changes, if a yes vote / SNP government emerges. An SNP government deemed soft on welfare, if this sites anything to go by, would soon find itself out on its ear / or is the fact that unfortunatly this site is inhabited largley by the make em work / hang em and flog em brigade. Some of the postings on this thread are at best woefully ignorant of the facts, and at worst borders on out and out nastism ( is that the word ! or have I mis spelt it ? )
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