View Full Version : Why are you voting No?
It has been said by a couple of people on here now that No voters are too scared to vote yes.
Perhaps we should enlighten them. Careful what you say though boys and girls, we wouldn't want to upset anyone.:eek:
Back in the 60/70's I was a fully paid up card carrying member of the nationalist party, but I lost faith in them during the 1970 Election campaign, the dirty tricks that were pulled by the Edinburgh Area was unreal, it sickened me of nationalist politics from then on. I see no difference today in the tactics that were played back then. So I will and have always been a committed NO voter since.
Because first and foremost I am proud to be from the United Kingdom of Great Britian and Northern Ireland and I wish to remain that way.
Secondly there are far too many questions that have remained unanswered and potential problems that remain unresolved.
Thirdly I believe the fatman is on a power trip and to hell with the repercussions.
.
Because first and foremost I am proud to be from the United Kingdom of Great Britian and Northern Ireland and I wish to remain that way.
Secondly there are far too many questions that have remained unanswered and potential problems that remain unresolved.
Thirdly I believe the fatman is on a power trip and to hell with the repercussions.
.
My thoughts to the T.
See the first part I absolutely understand - to love Britain and want to stay United makes utter sense. It's exactly the same with those people voting YES who believe that Scotland is a nation in its own right and as such should have its own government. The second part I understand too, it is personal as to whether there are enough answers or answers that address your particular issues. That will depend on each individuals critical issues and will be different for each of us. The Alex Salmond thing I don't get, there is a poster thing doing the rounds which shows a man talking to a wee lassie and he says "I voted NO cos I hated Alex Salmond" and she says "Who?" Alex Salmond is transient and will pass into history either way.
Whee did I say i hated the man?
I said he is on a power trip and does not care about what is left afterward, all in my opinion.
Also it was the third and least important factor in my decision making.
Not that it was a tough decision to make, took roughly 0.3 seconds to decide.
2little2late
23-Apr-14, 13:16
I'm voting no because I am not 100% satisfied Independence is right for Scotland. Rather a no vote and we stay part of the UK than a yes vote and it all goes tits up.
Eh Hem...
Quoting Colin from the Reason Day thread:
"Both posts weren't what was asked for and therefore going off topic and trolling. If you want to start a "No Reason Day" thread then feel free, I'd be happy to delete any Vote yes posts from that thread".
Cheers
Colin
I want to vote NO because i don't see answers to the economic future and well-being of my country from the current Scottish Parliament.
But, and it's a big BUT! (no, not kardashian style either....tch tch really...)
I so want to vote YES because i feel it is right for the country and right to at least have a go on our own.
.....and stick two fingers up to the rest of the world.
Personally i would prefer to see Scotland independent of the UK AND the EU. The last thing i want to do is vote yes for independence and then get the country brought down by joining the EU again. I reckon if Salmond was toting a YES vote coupled with a NO to EU membership, the YES party would be seriously ahead!
Eh Hem...
Quoting Colin from the Reason Day thread:
"Both posts weren't what was asked for and therefore going off topic and trolling. If you want to start a "No Reason Day" thread then feel free, I'd be happy to delete any Vote yes posts from that thread".
Cheers
Colin
You are absolutely right - i have happily deleted my comments.
rob murray
23-Apr-14, 16:53
Im 100% no, cos " I fear the elephant in the room" the unmentionable by all parties actually : and no, its nothing to do with the EU in / out, monetary union / trident : We are not a united nation, we are historically a divided nation, with the bulk of population living in west scotland, holding different beliefs / values amongst themselves which certainly differs from most of the rest of Scotland. I see trouble ahead if the vote is yes : anyone like to speculate where / why they can see the trouble ??
do you think it will ignite warfare based on religious bigotry?
Interesting, its quite possible these folk that believe in mythical characters can be volatile.
wavy davy
23-Apr-14, 21:55
Because first and foremost I am proud to be from the United Kingdom of Great Britian and Northern Ireland and I wish to remain that way.
Secondly there are far too many questions that have remained unanswered and potential problems that remain unresolved.
Thirdly I believe the fatman is on a power trip and to hell with the repercussions.
.
That just about sums it up for me.
rob murray
24-Apr-14, 12:31
do you think it will ignite warfare based on religious bigotry?
Interesting, its quite possible these folk that believe in mythical characters can be volatile.
Not warfare per se, but the facts are that a certain % of the west of scotland population see themselves as unionists, another % as Irish / Scots ( seperated by religous divides ) and a certain % non committal either way, and this is in the area of the largest population : nutters make up a certain % of any society, I fear that some folk are not going to be to chuffed that their identities will be taken away, ie made to be Scottish : Im British / European and if its a yes vote I will have to accept that overnight my nationality will change whether I like it or not, my fear is some wont be so, shall we say, accepting of this scenario. Or maybe life will just trundle on with same old apathy ? Or maybe old loyalties and identites will keep pressing on regardless of a yes vote, dunno, but sectariansim is in the here and now, and wont vanish overnight because we are all Scottish, not British. The SNP have had links with loony / extremist elements in the past on the road to where they are now thats a proven historical fact, so maybe,just maybe, loony elements will spring up to protect their identities ! We are not, nor have ever been a united nation, everyone honestly knows the divide in west of scotland and Ive struggled with the notion of an independant Scotland on that very basis....we are not a united nation, thats the fatal flaw as far as I see it.
Not warfare per se, but the facts are that a certain % of the west of scotland population see themselves as unionists, another % as Irish / Scots ( seperated by religous divides ) and a certain % non committal either way, and this is in the area of the largest population : nutters make up a certain % of any society, I fear that some folk are not going to be to chuffed that their identities will be taken away, ie made to be Scottish : Im British / European and if its a yes vote I will have to accept that overnight my nationality will change whether I like it or not, my fear is some wont be so, shall we say, accepting of this scenario. Or maybe life will just trundle on with same old apathy ? Or maybe old loyalties and identites will keep pressing on regardless of a yes vote, dunno, but sectariansim is in the here and now, and wont vanish overnight because we are all Scottish, not British. The SNP have had links with loony / extremist elements in the past on the road to where they are now thats a proven historical fact, so maybe,just maybe, loony elements will spring up to protect their identities ! We are not, nor have ever been a united nation, everyone honestly knows the divide in west of scotland and Ive struggled with the notion of an independant Scotland on that very basis....we are not a united nation, thats the fatal flaw as far as I see it.
To be be fair religious bigotry in Scotland is pretty much exclusive to the Glasgow area.
The rest of us dont give a hoot about proddy or catholic following.
Regardless of the referendum result thee will still be religious bigotry displayed in that area.
Humerous Vegetable
24-Apr-14, 13:29
All parties have had links with the loony/extremist elements in the past - it's the nature of political parties to attract the politically unstable to their ranks. The Tories have had Fascist and right wing extremists, the Labour party have had communist and hard left extremists. Maybe one day the Green party will have Emerald ultra-green weirdos? No nation is a "united" nation; otherwise we would be in a Big Brother scenario, where everybody was forced to think (and vote) the same way. All we can do is accept that we have been given the chance to make our voices heard, weigh the arguments and make our decisions.
So why are you voting "NO" again??
Humerous Vegetable
24-Apr-14, 15:01
God knows, I was avoiding this thread until it started raining again this morning. At least I have had some success with my other wee debate, after hassling everybody I could think of http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27143426 I still can't believe that nobody else cares where their TV licence fee goes - maybe nobody else on here is as poor as I am.
I'm voting No because I wear my Union Jack like a football shirt.
I'm voting No because I wear my Union Jack like a football shirt. Union flag I think you will find
I'm voting No because I wear my Union Jack like a football shirt.
tch...tch.....i suppose you had your Saltire made into shorts and socks then? :D
Green_not_greed
24-Apr-14, 20:32
Because first and foremost I am proud to be from the United Kingdom of Great Britian and Northern Ireland and I wish to remain that way.
Secondly there are far too many questions that have remained unanswered and potential problems that remain unresolved.
Thirdly I believe the fatman is on a power trip and to hell with the repercussions.
.
Totally in agreement !
ywindythesecond
24-Apr-14, 23:34
I want to vote NO because i don't see answers to the economic future and well-being of my country from the current Scottish Parliament.
But, and it's a big BUT! (no, not kardashian style either....tch tch really...)
I so want to vote YES because i feel it is right for the country and right to at least have a go on our own.
.....and stick two fingers up to the rest of the world.
!
Go with with the logic BG and bin your Braveheart DVD.
And don't confuse the current Scottish Parliament with the current Scottish Ministers.
Go with with the logic BG and bin your Braveheart DVD.
And don't confuse the current Scottish Parliament with the current Scottish Ministers.
Ach ah know fine well it's only a bit of Braveheart blow but you got to put it in there :-) FREEEEDOOOOOMMMMMM!!! stabba stabba snippety snip...
As for the current wahoos, parliament or ministers, nobody, not one of them, is giving truthful or proper answers on the economic and well-being of Scotland if a yes vote happens. I also don't like that fact that the pompous pink podge is hell bent on throwing us back to the mercy of Brussels either if the yes vote goes through. It's a lose-lose lose-lose...er did i say lose-lose? situation whichever way you look at it.
piratelassie
25-Apr-14, 01:33
I'm no voting no.
ywindythesecond
25-Apr-14, 02:08
I'm no voting no.
I'll say the same to you Pirate Lassie as I said to Big Gaz. Bin you Braveheart DVD. But also get your head in gear and start thinking logically about the practicalities. NATO - stay in, but get out of Faslane? Have our own defense force? Oblige England to continue to pay for Scottish windfarms?
And massive grid upgrades? Will there be a border? Will Scotland have an immigration policy? Will the Welsh need a visa to come here?
Start thinking PL, a referendum is only for yes or no. After that there would be a long time wondering what the hell have we got ourselves in to and how are we to get out of this mess.
to all those voting no your quite welcome to stay in the united kingdom, if the yes vote wins, move
to all those voting no your quite welcome to stay in the united kingdom, if the yes vote wins, move
will you be relocating when the No vote is returned then?
moving in the event of a yes may be easier said than done
to all those voting no your quite welcome to stay in the united kingdom, if the yes vote wins, move
I take it you are voting YES? if so, then better get your moving plans in order now. I hear MacSassenachs removals do a good deal but only up to the Scottish border, further than that the price increases 10-fold and only payable in Yankee Dollah!
to all those voting no your quite welcome to stay in the united kingdom, if the yes vote wins, move
There we go! [lol]
I'll say the same to you Pirate Lassie as I said to Big Gaz. Bin you Braveheart DVD. But also get your head in gear and start thinking logically about the practicalities. NATO - stay in, but get out of Faslane? Have our own defense force? Oblige England to continue to pay for Scottish windfarms?And massive grid upgrades? Will there be a border? Will Scotland have an immigration policy? Will the Welsh need a visa to come here? Start thinking PL, a referendum is only for yes or no. After that there would be a long time wondering what the hell have we got ourselves in to and how are we to get out of this mess.You know lol it so only NO voters who mention Braveheart as a reason people are voting YES. Thinking practically ywindy there are no reasons why any of the issues you raise are not achievable in an Independent Scotland. In fact all the information about why they are achievable is out there. The energy issues you raise seem to suggest that an Independent Scotland would do just the same as what it does now as part of the Uk. We can choose something completely different and vote in 2016 for alternatives in a way we can't do now. The border visa and immigration issues are all answered and planned for. Scotland ALREADY has a border - nothing would change, an Independent Scotland would NOT require people from Wales to obtain a visa to visit Scotland and immigration policy would be decided by a Scottish Government and designed to meet the needs of an Independent Scotland in a way which Westminster's policy does not.
You know lol it so only NO voters who mention Braveheart as a reason people are voting YES. Thinking practically ywindy there are no reasons why any of the issues you raise are not achievable in an Independent Scotland. In fact all the information about why they are achievable is out there. The energy issues you raise seem to suggest that an Independent Scotland would do just the same as what it does now as part of the Uk. We can choose something completely different and vote in 2016 for alternatives in a way we can't do now. The border visa and immigration issues are all answered and planned for. Scotland ALREADY has a border - nothing would change, an Independent Scotland would NOT require people from Wales to obtain a visa to visit Scotland and immigration policy would be decided by a Scottish Government and designed to meet the needs of an Independent Scotland in a way which Westminster's policy does not.
You just can't help yourself can you?:Razz
There we go! [lol]The point is you have a choice Ducati. If I don't like living somewhere I move away. If I want to live somewhere I move to it. Your choice - no one is chasing you out with a claymore.
The point is you have a choice Ducati. If I don't like living somewhere I move away. If I want to live somewhere I move to it. Your choice - no one is chasing you out with a claymore.
There are plenty that would like to. My point being, I am in Scotland as part of the UK as a right. I would not like to be here on sufference or subject to the whims of people I don't trust.
You just can't help yourself can you?:RazzLol lol lol. I decided you had let the thread move on without my help so I could now step in without influencing its direction. Although maybe it's just me you have a problem with :( . Also you know I can't see misunderstanding, misinterpretation, confusion lies or nonsense posted without trying to redress the balance a bit don't you. :)
Lol lol lol. I decided you had let the thread move on without my help so I could now step in without influencing its direction. Although maybe it's just me you have a problem with :( . Also you know I can't see misunderstanding, misinterpretation, confusion lies or nonsense posted without trying to redress the balance a bit don't you. :)
I can't either. I don't have a problem with you, (most people that do get banned) just some of your ideas. Is tisIivy one of your non existent nationalists?
There are plenty that would like to. My point being, I am in Scotland as part of the UK as a right. I would not like to be here on sufference or subject to the wims of people I don't trust. You are here cos you want to be. You will be given the absolute right to stay here on the day of independence and that will never be able to be taken away from you Ducati. Everyone living in Scotland on Independence Day will have a right to Scottish Citizenship. Even if you choose not to take it up. That's in addition to the rights you have as a British or EU citizen. Your rights as an English Person living in Scotland are protected up the ying yang no whim of anyone will take that away from you.
I can't either. I don't have a problem with you, just some of your ideas. Is tisIivy one of your non existent nationalists? I know you don't lol and I see no evidence to suggest tisIivy is anti English. Do you?
You are here cos you want to be. You will be given the absolute right to stay here on the day of independence and that will never be able to be taken away from you Ducati. Everyone living in Scotland on Independence Day will have a right to Scottish Citizenship. Even if you choose not to take it up. That's in addition to the rights you have as a British or EU citizen. Your rights as an English Person living in Scotland are protected up the ying yang no whim of anyone will take that away from you.
You just proved my point: "You will be given the absolute right to stay here".
I already have the absolute right to stay here.
I know you don't lol and I see no evidence to suggest tisIivy is anti English. Do you?
Do you even know where the lines are? You certainly can't read between them.:lol:
Do you even know where the lines are? You certainly can't read between them.:lol:Lol Ducati, I can read between your lines.
You on the other hand assume so much. To suggest that the post is posted by an anti English You assume that either all no voters are English or all English people are no voters. Neither of which is true.
You also assume that tisIivy is a Scottish Nationalist when that is not evident. You also assume that the post was from a Yes Voter when it may actually have been from a No voter and leaving Scotland is what they are doing.
You know if you are worried that tisIivy was one of the English hating bigots you see at every YES meeting you haven't been to or on every YES stall you haven't approached on the street or in every YES supporting household you haven't visited. You could have asked further questions of the poster before jumping to conclusions. But then that would not suit your poor persecuted minority persona and might even have lightened the chip you seem to be carrying around with you these days.
A wise person I once knew said "Assume makes an ass of you and me" - but only if I let it. I'm not and You should be smarter than that.
You just proved my point: "You will be given the absolute right to stay here". I already have the absolute right to stay here.Then nothing changes does it
Then nothing changes does it
Look. It is all about how you feel isn't it? You do, I feel, deliberately miss the point a lot. Just to make it clear. I don't need your permission now.
I don't want to need it in future.
for clarity in an earlier post Squidge stated "you WILL BE GIVEN the absolute right to stay here"
Why should he be given the right to stay when he already has the right to stay as things stand now?
You are right "be given" is perhaps the wrong phrase and it is my phrase so if Ducato and mi16 or anyone else is offended by that phrase then that's my fault. So let's take it away from the shrieking hysteria that often accompanies discussions on nationality and residence and get down to FACTS.
Fact - The white paper says that everyone living in Scotland at independence will automatically have the right to Scottish citizenship and residency. English, Scottish, Polish, Pakistani, Indian etc etc
Fact - This will not replace your British, Polish, German, French Lebanese etc etc citizenship but will be additional.
Example - I am English, born in England. I have no Scottish ancestry. The day before independence I will be English, a British citizen and an EU citizen living in Scotland as is my right as a British citizen and EU citizen. The day Scotland becomes independent I will be English, a British Citizen, an EU citizen living in an Independent Scotland as is my right as a British and EU citizen living here.The only difference is that on Independence Day I can choose to ALSO be a Scottish citizen if I want.
Fact - The right of residency is not changing one iota.
Fact - The only change is that I can choose to have something else as well.
Opinion - I probably won't to be honest. I don't feel any need to have a Scottish passport. I don't identify myself as Scottish although I do identify myself as one of Scotland's people because I live here and I am invested in this country. I will always be English and British and just like my English and British parents and sister who live in an independent France, I don't see any conflict between the place I was born and the place I live. I do however accept that this issue appears to be fundamentally important for Ducati.
not offended in any shape or form, just put the completely wrong way.
You are right "be given" is perhaps the wrong phrase and it is my phrase so if Ducato and mi16 or anyone else is offended by that phrase then that's my fault. So let's take it away from the shrieking hysteria that often accompanies discussions on nationality and residence and get down to FACTS. Fact - The white paper says that everyone living in Scotland at independence will automatically have the right to Scottish citizenship and residency. English, Scottish, Polish, Pakistani, Indian etc etc Fact - This will not replace your British, Polish, German, French Lebanese etc etc citizenship but will be additional. Example - I am English, born in England. I have no Scottish ancestry. The day before independence I will be English, a British citizen and an EU citizen living in Scotland as is my right as a British citizen and EU citizen. The day Scotland becomes independent I will be English, a British Citizen, an EU citizen living in an Independent Scotland as is my right as a British and EU citizen living here.The only difference is that on Independence Day I can choose to ALSO be a Scottish citizen if I want. Fact - The right of residency is not changing one iota. Fact - The only change is that I can choose to have something else as well. Opinion - I probably won't to be honest. I don't feel any need to have a Scottish passport. I don't identify myself as Scottish although I do identify myself as one of Scotland's people because I live here and I am invested in this country. I will always be English and British and just like my English and British parents and sister who live in an independent France, I don't see any conflict between the place I was born and the place I live. I do however accept that this issue appears to be fundamentally important for Ducati.Squidge, a wee question, Why are you continuing to post extracts from Eck's Santa clause wish list, when this thread is titled "Why are you voting no?"? Nothing to do with the reasons we are voting NO.
Golach honey you should try to keep up. I responded to previous posts. I absented myself from the thread to start with but as it was clear the thread had changed and moved on without me it seemed to be appropriate to respond to the questions being asked. Which as you know is what I always try to do pleasantly and politely.
Just want clarify this,I don't see anything else in the white paper Part 3 only referring to "Habitual residents will be Scottish citizens",nothing to say I can keep my identity at all,maybe its just me not understanding something.
Their is no other detail unless there is another white paper.
It's page 271 onwards Geoff - it says
"At the point of independence, this Government proposes an
inclusive model of citizenship for people whether or not they
define themselves as primarily or exclusively Scottish or wish
to become a Scottish passport holder. People in Scotland are
accustomed to multiple identities, be they national, regional,
ethnic, linguistic or religious, and a commitment to a multicultural
Scotland will be a cornerstone of the nation on
independence.
We plan that British citizens habitually resident in Scotland
on independence will be considered Scottish citizens. This will
include British citizens who hold dual citizenship with another
country."
It then goes on to say that
"The UK allows dual or multiple citizenship for British citizens.
If a British citizen acquires citizenship and a passport of another
country, this does not affect their British citizenship, right to
hold a British passport or right to live in the UK. The Scottish
Government will also allow dual citizenship."
There are also a series of questions with answers on citizenship from page 495 onwards - questions number 372 to 379 and following that there are questions on passports.
It is worth also knowing that the UK Border Agency leaflet BN18 - Information about dual nationality says this
"A person is a dual national if he or she holds more than one nationality or citizenship at the same time. There are normally no restrictions, in United Kingdom law, on British nationals having the citizenship of one or more other countries as well. So you will not need to give up any other nationality if you become British (but see paragraphs 2 - 4 below). Similarly, if you are a British national and you acquire another nationality, you will not normally lose your British nationality."
The "normally" refers to situations where the country you become a citizen of requires you to give up your British citizenship as a seperate issue from the law in the UK. UK law allows you to have dual citizenship with ANY other country in the world. Given that this is the case although the White paper says
" It will be for the
rest of the UK to decide whether it allows dual UK/Scottish
citizenship, but we expect the normal rules to extend to
Scottish citizens."
any suggestion therefore that the UK would deny Dual Citizenship to British Citizens living in Scotland is frankly laughable
Hope that helps Geoff :)
Here we go again, a thread entitled Why are you voting no, being taken over by Squidge, and her pro Eck propaganda. Squidge as nice as I know you are, take your propaganda to a thread that covers the pro independence discussions. Just stop stealing our Pro NO threads
Golach, sweetheart, I am answering what is being asked. That's all. I stayed away when the thread was about why people are voting no and only once they stopped simply saying why they were voting no and began asking questions did I come back to the thread. Don't want to read my stuff then block my posts but I WILL answer questions Golach if they are asked - you know me well enough to know that. People need to be informed however they vote. Propaganda? Maybe. But references are as they say, available on request if not included in post.
I am also voting No because as an Englishman I find it is my duty to keep the Union together so that UK decisions are determined in Parliament on English terms and conditions rather than on a federal basis because English MPs will swamp out the voices of the rest of the MPs.
I am also voting No because as an Englishman I find it is my duty to keep the Union together so that UK decisions are determined in Parliament on English terms and conditions rather than on a federal basis because English MPs will swamp out the voices of the rest of the MPs.
Good man :cool:
rogermellie
25-Apr-14, 19:16
I am also voting No because as an Englishman I find it is my duty to keep the Union together so that UK decisions are determined in Parliament on English terms and conditions rather than on a federal basis because English MPs will swamp out the voices of the rest of the MPs.
it's strange how a huge number of english people don't share this 'duty' and actually support independance for scotland ... oh wait, that's right ... they live in england :roll:
it's strange how a huge number of english people don't share this 'duty' and actually support independance for scotland ... oh wait, that's right ... they live in england :roll:The opinion of an England resident layman is irrelevant
rogermellie
25-Apr-14, 19:40
The opinion of an England resident layman is irrelevant
does this include ducati, rheghead and all the orgs other resident englanders ?
does this include ducati, rheghead and all the orgs other resident englanders ? If they reside in anywhere other than Scotland then yes, I'm not clued up on where orgers live to be honest
rogermellie
25-Apr-14, 19:57
If they reside in anywhere other than Scotland then yes, I'm not clued up on where orgers live to be honest
sorry, i was being a pedant, i meant they reside on the org
sorry, i was being a pedant, i meant they reside on the orgDon't know about pedant but it defiantly begins with p and ends in s
I am also voting No because as an Englishman, my country can continue to loot Scotland's fossil fuel, mineral and renewable energy wealth to my fellow countrymen all beneath the Scots noses. This cosy arrangement's greatest triumph is to convince Scots that this is good for the Scottish economy. And I know full well that without Scotland's huge renewable energy resource, England will default on its EU green obligations, so I will try my utmost to save my England from fines from the EU and to prevent my family's country pile from having to be near a wind farm.
rogermellie
25-Apr-14, 20:09
Don't know about pedant but it defiantly begins with p and ends in s
lol touche ...... (you meant penis right ?)
lol touche ...... (you meant penis right ?)
ill not answer that
you cannot beat a bit of org banter
rogermellie
25-Apr-14, 20:17
I am also voting No because as an Englishman, my country can continue to loot Scotland's fossil fuel, mineral and renewable energy wealth to my fellow countrymen all beneath the Scots noses. This cosy arrangement's greatest triumph is to convince Scots that this is good for the Scottish economy. And I know full well that without Scotland's huge renewable energy resource, England will default on its EU green obligations, so I will try my utmost to save my England from fines from the EU and to prevent my family's country pile from having to be near a wind farm.
you're spot on there, but if the yes vote wins, do all the wind farms in scotland belong to scotland ? who actually owns them ?
you're spot on there, but if the yes vote wins, do all the wind farms in scotland belong to scotland ? who actually owns them ?
I'm fearful that the Scottish Green Party will gain power in Scotland and nationalise the wind farms (as they have alluded to) and then the profits will cease to flow southwards into my countrymen's pockets. The worse case scenario is that the profit will then be redirected to provide health care and education for Scottish people through central provision.
rogermellie
25-Apr-14, 20:36
I'm fearful that the Scottish Green Party will gain power in Scotland and nationalise the wind farms (as they have alluded to) and then the profits will cease to flow southwards into my countrymen's pockets. The worse case scenario is that the profit will then be redirected to provide health care and education for Scottish people through central provision.
careful now, or golach will insist you remove these posts and put them in the pro independance threads.
seriously though, thanks for your answer.
careful now, or golach will insist you remove these posts and put them in the pro independance threads.
seriously though, thanks for your answer.
Cheers, I need to keep the Union together because England is going to a greater profit based economy where I am convinced that profit will trickle down into meaningful benefits like rich employment for all. Scotland on the other hand is too left leaning for my liking so it is imperative that it goes along with what England is doing. The Scots even have the soppiness to put the word 'Compassion' on their ceremonial mace, you won't see such namby pamby nonsense on the English ceremonial mace in Westminster.
Oh yes...I'm voting no because of the nutters as well.
I'm voting NO just to spite the English and leave them lumbered with Scotland! :D
What? Anti Englishness in the no campaign? Surely not lol
What? Anti Englishness in the no campaign? Surely not lol Not to mention welsh and northern Irish
I'm fearful that the Scottish Green Party will gain power in Scotland and nationalise the wind farms (as they have alluded to) and then the profits will cease to flow southwards into my countrymen's pockets. The worse case scenario is that the profit will then be redirected to provide health care and education for Scottish people through central provision.
At least if that happens there won't be any more of the things.
I'm voting no because I want to benefit from modern Nuclear energy in future.
Well not me, I generate my own with a giant diesel generator and a couple of solar panels and a teeny wind turbine.
I'm voting no because I want to benefit from modern Nuclear energy in future.
Well not me, I generate my own with a giant diesel generator and a couple of solar panels and a teeny wind turbine.
Not gonna be much use when Scotland runs out of oil, the skies darken (as predicted by some) and there will be so many windfarms that there will be no wind left for any private individual and his teeny wind turbine [smirk]
I'm voting no because i am worried about the country's future. Aye it could be good as yes campaign want us to beleive but what about the people out there who are disabled and can't work due to their diability and are worried about what will happen to them because no one is really answering the key questions so many need answered. So unless the yes campaign can actually answer key questions about the future of our country then i will vote no.
The way the uk is run as a whole is not great and it is about time english paraliment listened to the scots instead of as so many english people do, think we don't exist in the uk. I despair everytime i see someone in england say there are north of the uk. Some of my english friends do untill i teasingly remind them there are alot of north ahead of them in scotland.
The UK lets face it faced a really bad weather with alot of damage and flooding. Who's to say thats not going to happen again this winter. With too many flood plains built on it will happen again. The Uk needs to stand united together but better as a team. Together we can weather anything but split with stupid arguments about who is the best as is still clearly done by so mnay people, we will just fall.
Things have to change but not as split countries. Our current system will not support itself forever and things like bedroom tax need to be scrapped due to what it is doing to so many people. Isn't the fact that food banks in both scotland and england have suddenly becoem so urgently needed a sure sign of the poverty put on the uk's residents not good enough to abolish that tax that is crippling so many residents of the uk?
We need to stand together and make changes together as one big team. Split one side of the border will fall but together we can stand strong.
Now if it was a stay in the eu vote coming up i'd be voting no for sure as we are defintly better off out of it.
You do realise Westminster is not the English parliament, it's the British parliament
You do realise Westminster is not the English parliament, it's the British parliament
No it isn't the British Parliament......it is just called the British Parliament......but it is just the English Parliament of 1707 with all the attendant trappings still in place, and with a minority of representatives from the other Countries.
Do tell how much say Scotland (and/or NI/Wales) has when English Constituency MPs vote to implement something the majority of their MPs have voted against? That would be none, of course.
No it isn't the British Parliament......it is just called the British Parliament......but it is just the English Parliament of 1707 with all the attendant trappings still in place, and with a minority of representatives from the other Countries.
Do tell how much say Scotland (and/or NI/Wales) has when English Constituency MPs vote to implement something the majority of their MPs have voted against? That would be none, of course.
And yet, we are still voting NO. :D
I'm voting NO because despite whatever reasoned argument that is placed before me, nobody can accuse me of changing my mind on such important matters like the UK Constitution.
I'm voting no so that I can celebrate with the rest of the winners come September 19th
rob murray
01-May-14, 13:17
No it isn't the British Parliament......it is just called the British Parliament......but it is just the English Parliament of 1707 with all the attendant trappings still in place, and with a minority of representatives from the other Countries.
Do tell how much say Scotland (and/or NI/Wales) has when English Constituency MPs vote to implement something the majority of their MPs have voted against? That would be none, of course.
1979, thats why I wont vote yes, SNP bringing post war consensus to a bitter and complete end, paving the way for the nutcase monetarist experiment that destroyed industry and the attendant social fabric, ironically most "effective" in Scotland : Bathgate, Linwood, Motherwell Steel, Invergordon smelter etc etc...argue against that one !!
The SNP have a revisionist agenda, re writing history to suit themselves, they screwed the country up in 79 and will do again, lies lies lies, dunno, dunno, maybe yes maybe no, thats what we get fed. There are so many improbables within the seperatist debate, Salmon knows this and expects us, the electorate to trust him and his acolytes...sorry but outwith 3 SNP MSP figures, the rest are nothing more than toon councillors on a well paid jolly, why would anyone trust any of them ? Stay where we are and fight for devo max powers see how we get on, buys time to see how the country does running most of its own affiars and get honest real legally standing answers on fiscal stuff, trident, you know the elephants in the room that Salmon insists aint there....look at the elephants ? fit elephants...we cant see any....are you mad....trust us they aint there !!!! ( SNP line ).
I am voting no because in addition to my other reasons it has been announced that an independent Scotland will get a credit rating similar to that of a homeless person.
I am voting no because in addition to my other reasons it has been announced that an independent Scotland will get a credit rating similar to that of a homeless person.
According to the news, the very least rating an independent Scotland would probably get is an A, which in anyones book is reasonably good.
Other reports says that Scottish independence would actually increase the UK's credit rating? no doubt because the English govt would have gotten rid of the Scottish spongers...aye right!
Then there is the one that says Scotland will have the largest fiscal deficit in the world within a year of independence....hmmm, can't see Scotland owing more than £12 trillion after a year (US debt at present) because other reports say it will have a poor credit rating so where is all this money going to come from? You can't borrow with a crap credit rating and you certainly can't spend what you don't have and to say £12t debt in 1 year is a joke.....
One professor says that Scotland may be forced to hand over all it's oil in exchange for debt relief from the EU? So give the EU (who incidentally refuse to allow Scotland to rejoin) all of Scotland's oil in exchange for a basic debt-free lifestyle but one with no spare change to invest in the country's future? hmmm.....
Then you have the Caithness Orger who says that Scotland will collapse under it's own govt (is fat eck planning a subway for Edinburgh now?) that Scotland will become the pauper of the world and that no-one will want to live here anymore. Seems to me that people will have no choice but to live here due to their house values falling off the cliff...
Ach, independence blether, what a palaver.....you couldna make it up, but most people are!!!
it is two grades below the rating which we currently have, how can you spin that as a positive?
According to the news, the very least rating an independent Scotland would probably get is an A, which in anyones book is reasonably good.
This would push up the cost of borrowing. Spin it how you like it would be a disaster for anyone with a mortgage, car loan, credit card. It would effect the property market both private and commercial, plus as most of the lenders are English, how would the cross border disparity in interest rates effect all sorts of things including business finance, transactions between financial institutions etc?
...and other credit ratings agencies say Scotland will get a much better credit rating than A
.... Interest rates will be what they will be. Disappointingly for me it appears that we are likely to have a currency union so interest rates will be the same across the whole of the UK. If it's disastrous for borrowing here then it will be the same elsewhere in the UK.
... And the cross border disparity in interest rates would dealt with by the businesses in the same way as happens with cross border financial services between the UK and the rest of the world today! These businesses work across many countries and often throughout the world - to suggest that the systems for trade, financial services, transaction costs etc etc are going to be prohibitive and excessively costly when it works across many many other much more complicated borders than that between the rest of the UK and Scotland makes no sense. But if you want to believe it do so... ....
...Devo max? Devo numpty more like, labour is offering powers which will enable us to implement tax changes that will benefit no one and increase Scotland's income by not one jot: which give us the responsibility for health and safety exec but not the power to amend or draw up our own health and safety legislation. Waste of time and space. Wait and see? Tell that to those people using food banks, being conned by useless Work Programmes and as Scotland's budget gets so smaller as the rest of the UK laughs up their sleeve. This referendum is not about the SNP nor is it about 1979 - in fact many folks voting won't have been born in 1979. This referendum is about the future. What WE do with it and how WE - the people of Scotland make it happen.
it is two grades below the rating which we currently have, how can you spin that as a positive?
Who said it was a positive? I merely said that the rating would be an A.....i don't think any homeless person would have such a good rating...do you?
This would push up the cost of borrowing. Spin it how you like it would be a disaster for anyone with a mortgage, car loan, credit card. It would effect the property market both private and commercial, plus as most of the lenders are English, how would the cross border disparity in interest rates effect all sorts of things including business finance, transactions between financial institutions etc?
The way you blether on about the English lenders, they will be lucky to see any Scotsman's money! that's if they have any left after independence :lol:
... And the cross border disparity in interest rates would dealt with by the businesses in the same way as happens with cross border financial services between the UK and the rest of the world today! These businesses work across many countries and often throughout the world - to suggest that the systems for trade, financial services, transaction costs etc etc are going to be prohibitive and excessively costly when it works across many many other much more complicated borders than that between the rest of the UK and Scotland makes no sense. But if you want to believe it do so... ....
We are being told it will be business as usual, independence will make no difference. Who should we believe?
.... Interest rates will be what they will be.
I had to go away and think about this for a bit. Are you seriously dismissing interest rates as unimportant?
It is the single most important factor in anyone's financial wellbeing. Even a small increase will see the vast majority of us thousands of pounds (or whatevers) a year worse off. It will increase mortgage costs which will increase rents. It will reduce the spending power of every council, government and social agency and charity. The only people not adversly affected by higher interest rates are the very wealthy.
This leads me to believe you either don't understand the problem, or you are so wrapped up in your own narrow political agenda that you just don't care about the consequences. Which is it?
So that is why I am voting No. There are no consequences to voting No
rob murray
05-May-14, 11:29
...and other credit ratings agencies say Scotland will get a much better credit rating than A
.... Interest rates will be what they will be. Disappointingly for me it appears that we are likely to have a currency union so interest rates will be the same across the whole of the UK. If it's disastrous for borrowing here then it will be the same elsewhere in the UK.
... And the cross border disparity in interest rates would dealt with by the businesses in the same way as happens with cross border financial services between the UK and the rest of the world today! These businesses work across many countries and often throughout the world - to suggest that the systems for trade, financial services, transaction costs etc etc are going to be prohibitive and excessively costly when it works across many many other much more complicated borders than that between the rest of the UK and Scotland makes no sense. But if you want to believe it do so... ....
...Devo max? Devo numpty more like, labour is offering powers which will enable us to implement tax changes that will benefit no one and increase Scotland's income by not one jot: which give us the responsibility for health and safety exec but not the power to amend or draw up our own health and safety legislation. Waste of time and space. Wait and see? Tell that to those people using food banks, being conned by useless Work Programmes and as Scotland's budget gets so smaller as the rest of the UK laughs up their sleeve. This referendum is not about the SNP nor is it about 1979 - in fact many folks voting won't have been born in 1979. This referendum is about the future. What WE do with it and how WE - the people of Scotland make it happen.
Your being a bit Salmonish here : correct me if Im wrong, but one only party ever wanted a referendum, the SNP, their sole reason for existance is and always has been to gain independance, so how can you argue that the referendum is not about the SNP, only they have instigated it, if they hadnt then we wouldnt be where we are : how can you link HES issues with food banks ? makes no sense ( agree there should not be the need for food banks in the UK period ! ) 1979 : showed you couldnt trust the SNP a jot, this "debate" has to many maybe ayes, maybe nahs, on the really important issues, its this lack of detail that will make people stick with the known. The lack of answers to real details. makes me opt for an increased devo max, followed after a period of time when we ( the electorate ) should have access to full facts on fiscal policy, trident and EU membership to an informed referdum ( a half way house rather than this all or nothing approach being taken by the SNP ) . We are being asked to vote definitively yes / no without full knowledge of key facts, and thats not on : are we supposed to fall at the feet of ALexi and believe everything that falls out of his mouth when elements of his own party are now publically expressing doubts over supposed SNP statements ??? Nah !
Who said it was a positive? I merely said that the rating would be an A.....i don't think any homeless person would have such a good rating...do you?
What makes you think A is good rating?
It would put us on a par with other global financial superpowers such as Oman, Slovakia and Trinidad & Tobago.
rob murray
05-May-14, 13:41
ANother good reason to vote no, I dont hear the SNP trumpeting the cause of devolved power within an indepandant Scotland : Salmon goes on about our Nordic neighbours all the time : Sweden has c 290 local authorities all with devolved power : Salmons Scotland will continue to see centralisation of power to the centre of power : Edinburgh, so we are left with a choice between London or Edinburgh : devo max : more powers to Edinburgh who in turn devolve to localities, makes sense !
Scottish local authorities are too remote from their communities and have too little power, according to a new report.Scotland would be “fairer, wealthier and healthier” if local communities had control over the issues that matter to them, according to Scotland’s first Commission on Strengthening Local Democracy. The commission, which was set up by the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities (COSLA) and features a number of experts from across civic life, also found local democracy in Scotland has been “gradually dismantled” over the last 50 years.
It said Scotland is now one of the most centralised countries in the western world. David O’Neill, chairman of the commission and president of COSLA, said: “Scotland has a proud and important tradition of deciding on things locally. But local democracy is now under real pressure in this country.
“Over the decades, we’ve seen a culture in which more and more services and decisions have been taken away from local communities and put into the hands of distant bureaucracies.
“As a country, we have got so used to this approach that we’ve come to think of it as the only way to improve public services, even though that has meant that for most people decisions are now taken
Your being a bit Salmonish here : correct me if Im wrong, but one only party ever wanted a referendum, the SNP, their sole reason for existance is and always has been to gain independance, so how can you argue that the referendum is not about the SNP, only they have instigated it, if they hadnt then we wouldnt be where we are : how can you link HES issues with food banks ? makes no sense ( agree there should not be the need for food banks in the UK period ! ) 1979 : showed you couldnt trust the SNP a jot, this "debate" has to many maybe ayes, maybe nahs, on the really important issues, its this lack of detail that will make people stick with the known. The lack of answers to real details. makes me opt for an increased devo max, followed after a period of time when we ( the electorate ) should have access to full facts on fiscal policy, trident and EU membership to an informed referdum ( a half way house rather than this all or nothing approach being taken by the SNP ) . We are being asked to vote definitively yes / no without full knowledge of key facts, and thats not on : are we supposed to fall at the feet of ALexi and believe everything that falls out of his mouth when elements of his own party are now publically expressing doubts over supposed SNP statements ??? Nah !
Is someone else posting for you Rob? This makes little sense but ill have a go at unpicking it.
I don't particularly like AS but you know what. As much as some of you would like to think he marched into Holyrood after some sort of military coup - he didn't. Do you know what Rob? He won an election. Moreover he won an election with a majority in a parliament designed to to ensure that did not happen. Even more, he won an election whilst saying categorically, clearly and unambiguously that an SNP majority would deliver a referendum on Scottish Independence.
Maybe you think the electorate is stupid Rob. Maybe you think they can't read, understand and assimilate information Rob. Maybe you think we are "not genetically programmed" to govern ourselves Rob because that's the only way I can see that you would think this is not about what people chose. The electorate CHOSE a Scottish referendum.that might irritate the hell out of you and others - well too bad. That is how come this referendum is not about the SNP. It is about the fact that the people who voted chose to have a referendum and it is about the type of country we want to live in - independent or not. The SNP did not instigate a referendum, they offered a choice and the people who voted for them chose a referendum.
No one - not one single opposition party Is guaranteeing further devolution Rob - not one. It's in no one's manifesto. No promises, no coherence nothing. So you vote for nothing nada the opportunity to change nothing. I'll vote for the chance to take the power and control of tax, of spending and put that power in the hands of Scotland's voters because I want the opportunity to have a better fairer society and I have hope and expectation that we can begin to achieve this with independence.
Ducati . I know what matters to you is house prices, interest rates. How much money you can make from your investments and I understand that honest I do.... It's admirable. I also know that since I had my first mortgage in 1986 interest rates have gone up and down and sometimes it's been hard and sometimes it's been not so hard. What I said was they will be what they will be because in a currency union the BoE will set the same rates for both countries. I also know that there is utterly no guarantee what interest rates will be in a year, two years, five years or ten years whichever way the referendum goes.
You won't vote yes because everything will change and you are voting no because nothing will change. Ok. On ya go!
Anyone got anything to say that isn't Alex Salmond is the antichrist or we are all doomed? It's getting a bit dull even for me!
Is someone else posting for you Rob? This makes little sense but ill have a go at unpicking it.
I don't particularly like AS but you know what. As much as some of you would like to think he marched into Holyrood after some sort of military coup - he didn't. Do you know what Rob? He won an election. Moreover he won an election with a majority in a parliament designed to to ensure that did not happen. Even more, he won an election whilst saying categorically, clearly and unambiguously that an SNP majority would deliver a referendum on Scottish Independence.
Maybe you think the electorate is stupid Rob. Maybe you think they can't read, understand and assimilate information Rob. Maybe you think we are "not genetically programmed" to govern ourselves Rob because that's the only way I can see that you would think this is not about what people chose. The electorate CHOSE a Scottish referendum.that might irritate the hell out of you and others - well too bad. That is how come this referendum is not about the SNP. It is about the fact that the people who voted chose to have a referendum and it is about the type of country we want to live in - independent or not. The SNP did not instigate a referendum, they offered a choice and the people who voted for them chose a referendum.
No one - not one single opposition party Is guaranteeing further devolution Rob - not one. It's in no one's manifesto. No promises, no coherence nothing. So you vote for nothing nada the opportunity to change nothing. I'll vote for the chance to take the power and control of tax, of spending and put that power in the hands of Scotland's voters because I want the opportunity to have a better fairer society and I have hope and expectation that we can begin to achieve this with independence.
Ducati . I know what matters to you is house prices, interest rates. How much money you can make from your investments and I understand that honest I do.... It's admirable. I also know that since I had my first mortgage in 1986 interest rates have gone up and down and sometimes it's been hard and sometimes it's been not so hard. What I said was they will be what they will be because in a currency union the BoE will set the same rates for both countries. I also know that there is utterly no guarantee what interest rates will be in a year, two years, five years or ten years whichever way the referendum goes.
You won't vote yes because everything will change and you are voting no because nothing will change. Ok. On ya go!
Anyone got anything to say that isn't Alex Salmond is the antichrist or we are all doomed? It's getting a bit dull even for me!
Well, you charged into the thread.
And you want to vote yes to wreck everyone's life except your select few.
You try to make me sound like some kind of olligark (whatever), I clean cars for a living :lol:. I am very ordinary, just like millions of others who will be affected severely by higher interest rates in Scotland. We know there will be no currency union, that ship has sailed, so the Interest rates won't be protected artificially as the rest of the UK's will continue to be for some time. Face it Squidge, yes always was a bad idea, it is looking worse all the time.
Well, you charged into the thread.And you want to vote yes to wreck everyone's life except your select few.You're like a wee boy. "Well you started it... Well you want to do bad things"
The select few???? I'm sitting in England looking after my cousin who has broken her back falling off her horse. Who was discharged from hospital in a spinal brace three days after an operation to a house where she has no one. She isn't married, she has no kids, no boyfriend no parents- they are dead- and which is full of stairs and steps. She could hardly walk. She could hardly go up stairs, she can't lift anything, raise her hands above her shoulders, shower, wash her hair. She can't bend, cook for herself or make a blasted cup of tea. She can't drive but she lives five miles from a shop. They sent her home on last Friday with no help coming in until today. She is in awful pain and taking morphine. We tried to get a frame for round the loo on Sat morning so she could go to the toilet by herself. We haven't got one. I love my cousin dearly. I had to drive from Inverness to Yorkshire to look after her until my mum can get here from France. No one cared, no one gave a crap that they were sending home a frightened, pain filled woman to an empty house miles from a shop with no support for four days.
Now I know that social services have similar problems in Scotland. But the difference is that in Scotland we have an opportunity to do something to change this. There is no opportunity to change things like this, welfare; we don't have the power to get rid of the bedroom tax -we have to pay it. We don't have the power to raise our own taxes or choose our own spending priorities, we can't choose our own tax rates, we can't increase our own income we have to be "given" those things by Westminster because they choose FOR us. We can't choose to keep our pension age at the age of 65 or 67 despite the fact that life expectancy in Scotland is lower.
Spending on health and social services and actually everything else too will REDUCE if we remain in the union because the money we get is based on how much is spent in England. Both main parties have policies of privatisation, reduction in size of the public sector and in spending. Health and social services affect EVERYONE. Welfare impacts on everyone. The only chance we have to change these things, to look after each other better than we do now is to vote for independence.
That in itself will not change things but the power control and opportunity it gives us is not to be missed.
PS Its now 1pm. Despite making 4 phone calls on Saturday, 7 phone calls this morning, despite the Dr faxing a letter thro last Friday to the "fast response intermediate team" - privately run, contracted by the NHS - we still have no visit and no prospect of one. The "fast response intermediate care team" apparently looked at the letter on Friday and decided that it was not on the right form but interestingly decided not to do anything about that. So ignored it. They knew there was an injured incapacitated woman for whom care was required and chose to do nothing about it. This happens in Scotland too BTW... See Ducati, I know you valet cars for a living, I also know you aren't an "oligarch" ;) but for many people THESE are the things that are their critical issues. You seem to suggest that makes them foolish, naive, economically illiterate or ignorant at how the world works and that trying to take the opportunity to have the power to do things differently is foolish. It's not. Interest rates, currency unions, GERS reports don't make a society, people do.
rob murray
06-May-14, 13:41
Is someone else posting for you Rob? This makes little sense but ill have a go at unpicking it.
I don't particularly like AS but you know what. As much as some of you would like to think he marched into Holyrood after some sort of military coup - he didn't. Do you know what Rob? He won an election. Moreover he won an election with a majority in a parliament designed to to ensure that did not happen. Even more, he won an election whilst saying categorically, clearly and unambiguously that an SNP majority would deliver a referendum on Scottish Independence.
Maybe you think the electorate is stupid Rob. Maybe you think they can't read, understand and assimilate information Rob. Maybe you think we are "not genetically programmed" to govern ourselves Rob because that's the only way I can see that you would think this is not about what people chose. The electorate CHOSE a Scottish referendum.that might irritate the hell out of you and others - well too bad. That is how come this referendum is not about the SNP. It is about the fact that the people who voted chose to have a referendum and it is about the type of country we want to live in - independent or not. The SNP did not instigate a referendum, they offered a choice and the people who voted for them chose a referendum.
No one - not one single opposition party Is guaranteeing further devolution Rob - not one. It's in no one's manifesto. No promises, no coherence nothing. So you vote for nothing nada the opportunity to change nothing. I'll vote for the chance to take the power and control of tax, of spending and put that power in the hands of Scotland's voters because I want the opportunity to have a better fairer society and I have hope and expectation that we can begin to achieve this with independence.
Ducati . I know what matters to you is house prices, interest rates. How much money you can make from your investments and I understand that honest I do.... It's admirable. I also know that since I had my first mortgage in 1986 interest rates have gone up and down and sometimes it's been hard and sometimes it's been not so hard. What I said was they will be what they will be because in a currency union the BoE will set the same rates for both countries. I also know that there is utterly no guarantee what interest rates will be in a year, two years, five years or ten years whichever way the referendum goes.
You won't vote yes because everything will change and you are voting no because nothing will change. Ok. On ya go!
Anyone got anything to say that isn't Alex Salmond is the antichrist or we are all doomed? It's getting a bit dull even for me!
Well Salmon is the key player here, so what do you expect, he isnt the anti christ, but the key player in Scottish politics, so by definition he is the centre of the debate, and we may well be doomed if he gets his way, facts are we dont really know. ? Why does the posting make no sense ? You are being far to over the top / personal here ie "Maybe you think the electorate is stupid Rob. Maybe you think they can't read, understand and assimilate information Rob". No, I dont, but one thing we can agree on, is there are to many unanswered improbables within this whole scenario and splits are occurring within the nats ranks over the lack of planned detail and need for plan b's in ceratin strategic matters.. The all or nothing stance, then is to much of a reckless gamble, did you ever consider for example that the nats could use the threat of separation to leverage more power from the status quo and make real change, as I said a half way house? I notice that you very neatly side swerved my earlier postings on the elephant in the room and lack of devovled local power : we are not a united nation, not now and never were and there will never be a united Scotland. The Nats dismantled HIE, transferring millions of budgets and power / decision making to Glasgow ( Scottish Enterprise and Skills Development Scotland ) whats left of HIE is a reletaively powerless rump, largely then, denying the area of local economic representation / development . A separtist Scotland will be ruled from Edinburgh, show me one instance of devolved power in Scotland ie devolved from Edinburgh to the localaties, or point me in the direction of a Nats statement that power will be devolved to local areas ? You think I am stupid, and cant as you put it assimilate information : however there is a difference between real factual information and unsubtantiated, at best, propoganda. To many maybe ayes / maybe nahs, making things up on the hoof for me, I am very sorry to say. Gimme the factual answers to the big questions and I will glady read / listen.
PS You are not Nicola Surgeon in disguise are you, she is brilliant at the sarcastic sniggering put downs : its the Eck and Nicola show and their mannerism's wont attract any undecided voters.
rob murray
06-May-14, 13:46
You're like a wee boy. "Well you started it... Well you want to do bad things"
The select few???? I'm sitting in England looking after my cousin who has broken her back falling off her horse. Who was discharged from hospital in a spinal brace three days after an operation to a house where she has no one. She isn't married, she has no kids, no boyfriend no parents- they are dead- and which is full of stairs and steps. She could hardly walk. She could hardly go up stairs, she can't lift anything, raise her hands above her shoulders, shower, wash her hair. She can't bend, cook for herself or make a blasted cup of tea. She can't drive but she lives five miles from a shop. They sent her home on last Friday with no help coming in until today. She is in awful pain and taking morphine. We tried to get a frame for round the loo on Sat morning so she could go to the toilet by herself. We haven't got one. I love my cousin dearly. I had to drive from Inverness to Yorkshire to look after her until my mum can get here from France. No one cared, no one gave a crap that they were sending home a frightened, pain filled woman to an empty house miles from a shop with no support for four days.
Now I know that social services have similar problems in Scotland. But the difference is that in Scotland we have an opportunity to do something to change this. There is no opportunity to change things like this, welfare; we don't have the power to get rid of the bedroom tax -we have to pay it. We don't have the power to raise our own taxes or choose our own spending priorities, we can't choose our own tax rates, we can't increase our own income we have to be "given" those things by Westminster because they choose FOR us. We can't choose to keep our pension age at the age of 65 or 67 despite the fact that life expectancy in Scotland is lower.
Spending on health and social services and actually everything else too will REDUCE if we remain in the union because the money we get is based on how much is spent in England. Both main parties have policies of privatisation, reduction in size of the public sector and in spending. Health and social services affect EVERYONE. Welfare impacts on everyone. The only chance we have to change these things, to look after each other better than we do now is to vote for independence.
That in itself will not change things but the power control and opportunity it gives us is not to be missed.
PS Its now 1pm. Despite making 4 phone calls on Saturday, 7 phone calls this morning, despite the Dr faxing a letter thro last Friday to the "fast response intermediate team" - privately run, contracted by the NHS - we still have no visit and no prospect of one. The "fast response intermediate care team" apparently looked at the letter on Friday and decided that it was not on the right form but interestingly decided not to do anything about that. So ignored it. They knew there was an injured incapacitated woman for whom care was required and chose to do nothing about it. This happens in Scotland too BTW... See Ducati, I know you valet cars for a living, I also know you aren't an "oligarch" ;) but for many people THESE are the things that are their critical issues. You seem to suggest that makes them foolish, naive, economically illiterate or ignorant at how the world works and that trying to take the opportunity to have the power to do things differently is foolish. It's not. Interest rates, currency unions, GERS reports don't make a society, people do.
Sorry to hear your news, genuinely sorry. Fiscal management / economics / EU membership / trident / renewables : all add up to the economic means to deliver a fairer soceity and I support your desire 100% on wishing for a decent society, however we all need more info on the big issues, if these are not planned / thought through, then we can only hope that things would be fairer in a seperate Scotland, I would like to know not hope, that a fairer society would be delivered.
Not ignoring it Rob just knackered and you know what, when you say " And what about this issue...." I have to think about it, research it and it's usually more than one sentence to reply fully. Sometimes posts are quite long enough.
There is quite a bit of work going on about devolving power both within and out with the Scottish Government. Various meetings have taken place in Island and rural communities around Scotland about that very issue which have been instigated and include ministers and others from the Scottish Government. In addition the Electoral reform society has looked at different ways of governing an independent Scotland through a series of workshops going back over a year ago. You rattle on about the SNP but the Green Party have shown their plans for more local responsibility and the SDA I think, support a more Swiss style democratic policy.
You know what though, it costs money to pass out budgets and decision making from the centre. We currently do not have the wriggle room within the Scottish budget to afford the costs of more local decision making. If We are having to spend the money we get on a Community Jobs fund ( which works better than the UK's shabby effort, on paying everyone's bedroom tax, on mitigated the effects of council tax benefit changes on capital projects to create jobs, then we cannot afford to pass bits of it out to local authorities...
As far as KNOWING a fairer society will be delivered, look at what is happening in Scotland today with the work thAts being done to mitigate the effects of welfare reform. to ensure free education, to keep free prescriptions. These things have been prioritised now. Some will be enshrined in the constitution of a new Scotland - if we can do these things now then we can do more with independence. There are no guarantees, no utopia, no land of milk and honey just an opportunity, a priceless, once in a lifetime chance to do something better. Whether we take it and what we do with it is up to us - the voters, the people of Scotland. Are you really going to refuse to take that opportunity?
The key to making ANY of the changes you talk about is control over taxation and spending. We do not have that now, we WILL have it with Independence. That's it really.
Runt... That's the best reason there is to vote NO and really the only one I truly understand.
rob murray
06-May-14, 14:25
Not ignoring it Rob just knackered and you know what, when you say " And what about this issue...." I have to think about it, research it and it's usually more than one sentence to reply fully. Sometimes posts are quite long enough.
There is quite a bit of work going on about devolving power both within and out with the Scottish Government. Various meetings have taken place in Island and rural communities around Scotland about that very issue which have been instigated and include ministers and others from the Scottish Government. In addition the Electoral reform society has looked at different ways of governing an independent Scotland through a series of workshops going back over a year ago. You rattle on about the SNP but the Green Party have shown their plans for more local responsibility and the SDA I think, support a more Swiss style democratic policy.
You know what though, it costs money to pass out budgets and decision making from the centre. We currently do not have the wriggle room within the Scottish budget to afford the costs of more local decision making. If We are having to spend the money we get on a Community Jobs fund ( which works better than the UK's shabby effort, on paying everyone's bedroom tax, on mitigated the effects of council tax benefit changes on capital projects to create jobs, then we cannot afford to pass bits of it out to local authorities...
As far as KNOWING a fairer society will be delivered, look at what is happening in Scotland today with the work thAts being done to mitigate the effects of welfare reform. to ensure free education, to keep free prescriptions. These things have been prioritised now. Some will be enshrined in the constitution of a new Scotland - if we can do these things now then we can do more with independence. There are no guarantees, no utopia, no land of milk and honey just an opportunity, a priceless, once in a lifetime chance to do something better. Whether we take it and what we do with it is up to us - the voters, the people of Scotland. Are you really going to refuse to take that opportunity?
The key to making ANY of the changes you talk about is control over taxation and spending. We do not have that now, we WILL have it with Independence. That's it really.
Runt... That's the best reason there is to vote NO and really the only one I truly understand.
Ok thanks, you make your point and are obviously passionately pro seperatism and I accept and agree with your desire for a fairer society, which I feel is at the heart of your choice to be pro seperatism : I wont trade insults "You rattle on..." personally speaking, the greens are nothing politically speaking
I'm pro independence Rob. Separating Scotland from the rest of the UK would need an earthquake. And as a Lancashire girl rattle on is no insult it is simply a word. I rattle on all the time and not just about independence. BTW it's 3pm and we still have no answer.
rob murray
06-May-14, 16:55
I'm pro independence Rob. Separating Scotland from the rest of the UK would need an earthquake. And as a Lancashire girl rattle on is no insult it is simply a word. I rattle on all the time and not just about independence. BTW it's 3pm and we still have no answer.
Fine, lost in translation lol. All the best, as I said, I share your desires for a more equal and fairer society, if the vote is yes, well I live with it, actually the day after yes will be when the real big issues will kick in. Interestng time between now and the vote and very interesting times ahead if its a yes vote.
I find if you work harder, life gets fairer. There is no real trick to it. :D
I wish it was that simple too.
I find if you work harder, life gets fairer. There is no real trick to it. :D
hmmm, been working hard all my life up until recently when i realised there was no point in knocking your pan in because there is always someone else slacking and leaving you to do all the work...fair? i think not!
hmmm, been working hard all my life up until recently when i realised there was no point in knocking your pan in because there is always someone else slacking and leaving you to do all the work...fair? i think not!
perhaps it was not hard enough, the work that is
perhaps it was not hard enough, the work that is
The work has always been hard and i've always worked hard, i wouldn't be where i am in life now without doing so. You are more than welcome to try working hard, putting in 14 -16 hour days and often longer, in your own business and see where it gets you. As for the slackers, they didn't last long.
The work has always been hard and i've always worked hard, i wouldn't be where i am in life now without doing so. You are more than welcome to try working hard, putting in 14 -16 hour days and often longer, in your own business and see where it gets you. As for the slackers, they didn't last long.What's work ethics got to do with reasons for voting No? My main reason for voting is because Squidge , weeboyagee and Rheghead are voting yes allegedly :D
What's work ethics got to do with reasons for voting No? My main reason for voting is because Squidge , weeboyagee and Rheghead are voting yes allegedly :D
it was originally a reply to Ducati's post #106
I'm still on the NO side until i see positive proof that Scotland and it's people will be better off as an independent country.
it was originally a reply to Ducati's post #106
I'm still on the NO side until i see positive proof that Scotland and it's people will be better off as an independent country.
I watched Scottish questions today, I can't normally catch it but plenty of convincing argument that Scots will be better off remaining in the UK.
Failing that, listen to the people that create the wealth, pretty unanimous it would seem.
The work has always been hard and i've always worked hard, i wouldn't be where i am in life now without doing so. You are more than welcome to try working hard, putting in 14 -16 hour days and often longer, in your own business and see where it gets you. As for the slackers, they didn't last long.
you dont need to tell me about any of the above, 4am starts and 10pm finishes etc
What's this? A who works harder contest? It doesn't really matter how hard you work. Life has a way of surprising you - sometimes good surprises, sometimes horrid surprises.... You could fall off a horse/motorbike/ladder and break your back! Then have to wait 6 days and counting for some professional help from an increasingly stretched health sector. You could find your marriage breaks down and you suddenly have no home, no furniture, no money and three children to look after - hard work isn't always the key to fairer society or even personal success.
What's this? A who works harder contest? It doesn't really matter how hard you work. Life has a way of surprising you - sometimes good surprises, sometimes horrid surprises.... You could fall off a horse/motorbike/ladder and break your back! Then have to wait 6 days and counting for some professional help from an increasingly stretched health sector. You could find your marriage breaks down and you suddenly have no home, no furniture, no money and three children to look after - hard work isn't always the key to fairer society or even personal success.
Maybe not, but it doesn't happen without it. If you work hard you can Insure to mitigate most of the above. In fact if you don't take responsibility for your own insurance, then you can hardly complain about a basic service you receive.
None of this however has anything to do with why you are voting no. Remind us again will you?
Maybe not but it has EVERYTHING to do with why I'm voting YES.
Maybe not but it has EVERYTHING to do with why I'm voting YES.
You are voting yes so you don't have to work hard? Good luck with that!
Don't be obtuse.
Try the cool car thread for a bit, it might cheer you up. :)
Trying to distill all my reasons. I think overall, if you want to leave the UK, the best place in the world to live in my opinion, you'd better have a very good reason. I haven't heard one yet.
orkneycadian
15-May-14, 14:08
I will be voting no, as it appears that the government we would be voting in if we voted yes, would complete their transition into a dictatorship, who persistently ignore the wishes of the population, and for whom, consultations are nothing more than a "tick in a box" to say "We consulted before we did anything".
The Yes camp are starting to have scarily similar aspirations to the pro-Russian factions in Eastern Europe.
I will be voting no, as it appears that the government we would be voting in if we voted yes, would complete their transition into a dictatorship, who persistently ignore the wishes of the population, and for whom, consultations are nothing more than a "tick in a box" to say "We consulted before we did anything".
The Yes camp are starting to have scarily similar aspirations to the pro-Russian factions in Eastern Europe.
The referendum is not voting in a Government! Sheesh! The Government has already been voted in and will be the Government until May 2016. In May 2016, then we will vote in a Government to be the first Government of iScotland. And if that Government happens to be majority SNP....then that would be because we voted for it..just as we did in 2011.
You know, you are starting to sound a lot like a Daily Fail/Torygraph/BBC etc "journalist" or a Unionist politician most of the time now.....as in if you can't say anything factual in support of the Union, just make crap up, no matter how ridiculous.
orkneycadian
15-May-14, 20:42
The referendum is not voting in a Government! Sheesh! The Government has already been voted in and will be the Government until May 2016. In May 2016, then we will vote in a Government to be the first Government of iScotland. And if that Government happens to be majority SNP....then that would be because we voted for it..just as we did in 2011.
You know, you are starting to sound a lot like a Daily Fail/Torygraph/BBC etc "journalist" or a Unionist politician most of the time now.....as in if you can't say anything factual in support of the Union, just make crap up, no matter how ridiculous.
Er, isn't this supposed to be the "Why are you voting No" thread? Where its all about No reasons? No Yes rhetoric allowed, like no No rhetoric was allowed in the "Whay are you voting Yes" thread?:confused
I will be voting no, as it appears that the government we would be voting in if we voted yes, would complete their transition into a dictatorship, who persistently ignore the wishes of the population, and for whom, consultations are nothing more than a "tick in a box" to say "We consulted before we did anything".
The Yes camp are starting to have scarily similar aspirations to the pro-Russian factions in Eastern Europe.
Quite agree. Worst thing that happened to Scotland was when it virtually became a one party state giving its First Minister far too much power. I'm not keen on Westminster but at least they have a decent sized opposition. Scotland has none and a Yes vote in September will end in this being a dictatorship. We've all seen what happens in other countries where one man thinks he can do what he likes. All power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Besides we don't know what we're voting for with Yes - too many questions unanswered or will only be answered too late. Once done, there's no going back.
orkneycadian
16-May-14, 23:20
And this seems to be what the Yes camp are pinning our hopes on....
23904
I'm voting no because, some say, Alex Salmond is an Alien, he hopes to infiltrate Europe and gain clear skys over Bonnybridge.
orkneycadian
20-May-14, 06:38
To us up here in the north, the Central Belt orientated line up in the SNP is indeed quite alien. To them, Orkney and Shetland is probably merely "that place where the oil comes from" [lol]
Because first and foremost I am proud to be from the United Kingdom of Great Britian and Northern Ireland and I wish to remain that way.
Secondly there are far too many questions that have remained unanswered and potential problems that remain unresolved.
Thirdly I believe the fatman is on a power trip and to hell with the repercussions.
.
Nothing to do with being a Rangers fan then lol.
Nothing to do with being a Rangers fan then lol. What on earth does football have to do with the referendum?
Thats a very good question.....watp
Thats a very good question.....watp You will need to be a bit less cryptic here buddy.I do not see how the team a person follows has any influence what so ever on their political viewpoint.Can you please explain in more detail?
I will be voting no, as it appears that the government we would be voting in if we voted yes, would complete their transition into a dictatorship, who persistently ignore the wishes of the population, and for whom, consultations are nothing more than a "tick in a box" to say "We consulted before we did anything".
The Yes camp are starting to have scarily similar aspirations to the pro-Russian factions in Eastern Europe.Something like Westminster then?
The first ever community owned tidal power turbine in the world has started exporting electricity to the grid. I think that's truly exciting and it's happened in Shetland. Here is the link to read about it. http://news.scotland.gov.uk/News/World-first-for-community-tidal-scheme-cac.aspx
rob murray
21-May-14, 11:36
Something interesting / factual reasons to question the yessers :
A striking statistic is that men in the Shettleston area of Glasgow have a life expectancy of 68, while their counterparts in Lenzie, eight miles away, can expect to be on this earth for 82 years.
So everyone knows about life expectancy as a symptom of massive inequalities within Scotland which cry out to be addressed. We do not need to look beyond our borders. Poverty lives cheek by jowl with plenty, all within our own small nation, our own cities, our own towns. Eight miles and 14 years of life apart.
That should be a central challenge for any Scottish Government worthy of the name, using the many levers at their disposal. It goes to the root of questions about whether finite resources are being used to attack such inequalities – which, patently, they are not – or to sustain and indeed widen them.
But then fast-forward to last week’s ludicrous proposal from Shona Robison, on behalf of the SNP administration, that Scottish pensioners should be paid earlier than English ones because “we” die younger.
The geographic comparison which Ms Robison selected was not between Shettleston and Lenzie. Instead, it was between “some areas of Glasgow” and Harrow, which is a posh-sounding place in the south of England; a place for which, unlike Shettleston and Lenzie, Ms Robison and the Scottish Government have absolutely no responsibility.
And therein lies the kernel of why Nationalism is such an unpleasant and deceptive creed. To recognise the inequalities within Scotland involves both challenge and responsibility. In contrast, pretending that the difference which matters is between the poorest places in Scotland and the richest places in England is a grotesque caricature, intended to encourage prejudice and gross misunderstanding. And also, of course, to evade responsibility.
The weird demand for pension-age differentials comes out of the same political dung-heap. Are rich Scots to benefit from this distinction along with poor ones? Is a factory worker in Liverpool to qualify for her pension later than Ann Gloag or the Weirs? Or is it all just ill-considered rubbish designed, like so much else, to drive wedges and resentments on the basis of identity?
Comments invited !!
orkneycadian
21-May-14, 20:23
A striking statistic is that men in the Shettleston area of Glasgow have a life expectancy of 68, while their counterparts in Lenzie, eight miles away, can expect to be on this earth for 82 years.
So everyone knows about life expectancy as a symptom of massive inequalities within Scotland which cry out to be addressed. We do not need to look beyond our borders. Poverty lives cheek by jowl with plenty, all within our own small nation, our own cities, our own towns. Eight miles and 14 years of life apart.
According to Wikipedia, the reason for Shettleston having a falling life expectancy is "poor diets and remarkably high smoking rates"
Now, I don't see why the rest of the country, Scotland or UK, should take the blame for people choosing to live on a diet of chips, pizzas, kebabs and deep fried mars bars rather than exercising some home economics and rustling up something altogether more nutritious. Similarly, if people can afford the luxury hobby of smoking, then they should really have the funds to cover it. Smoking is not an essential to life. That it cuts it short is somewhat ironic.
Health inequalities are shocking.
It's not just central belt stuff though - check out life expectancy in South Kessock compared to Milton of Leys or Pulteneytown compared to Areas of Thurso. It's important to note that health inequalities are not only an NHS issue. That social issues like poverty, poor education, poor housing, unemployment, are the drivers that lead to huge health inequalities.
Rob suggests that the Scottish Gov has not done anything or enough to tackle these. Well off the top of my head they have introduced measures to reduce the effect of some of the welfare reforms, the reduction in council tax benefit, the bedroom tax - a significant amount of the limited money the Scottish Government is allocated has gone to reduce the effect of these "reforms". They have introduced free prescriptions, they have increased support for carers, the Scottish Welfare Fund, the Community Jobs Fund, the initiatives to improve breast feeding, the early years workers and so on and so on. They are doing more than many of us would think to tackle the underlying issues which lead to health inequalities.
Why are we not seeing massive improvements then. Well that is because the most important powers required to reduce health inequality in any society is control over welfare, taxation and spending priorities. Scotland can only do what it can with the money it is GIVEN. Not the money it raises, not the money WE earn, the money that we are given to spend on the bits that we can. Scotland, whilst it can do what it can is not able to change things FUNDAMENTALLY because we do not have the power to do so. The power to change welfare policy, to raise and spend our own taxes. To slag off the Scottish Government for failing to address health inequalities ignores this and makes no sense. Only a YES vote will give Scotland the power to tackle this issue.
The pension age thing is a different issue - this policy is not about health inequalities. Nor is the comparison Rob has taken such exception to, about ethnic agitation.
Firstly for anyone to get up tight because the Scottish Government discusses life expectancy when developing pension policy is a bit naive. Your life insurers and your own pension providers make a judgement about how long people live when developing their policies. That's normal actuarial practice.
The issue with pension age is that Scotland does not have the power to design or develop it's own pension policy just now. And so we have the Westminster policy being implemented which is to raise the pension age because people are living longer. And so they are - in Harrow! People in the rest of the UK ARE living longer but here in Scotland we are not. Scotland has no need for this policy because the issues which affect harrow, or jarrow for that matter are not affecting Scotland and Yet we cannot say, actually we don't need this policy because we don't have this issue. Just like the bedroom tax was designed to address issues around housing in London and South East or the immigration policy is designed to address issues in the rest of the UK, the pension age rise ignores what Scotland needs or doesn't need. The comparison was not some narrow nationalist racist claptrap but a comparison which clearly indicates the need for Scotland to be able to design policies which meet our own needs and address our own problems. Only a YES vote gives Scotland that power.
Rob clearly is angry about health inequalities and the lack of improvements in this area and yet he doesn't want to vote for the powers to change things. I don't get that. If we want changes in Scotland, in the UK, in the world then we have to take the opportunities offered to us.
Be the change you want to see in the world someone said - independence gives us the chance to do exactly that.
Southern-Gal
22-May-14, 07:42
I will vote no because when I emailed the yes gang about my concerns I got a reply promising me the good life then before the email was done they stated that it could change as nothing is finalised yet or something similar. If they cant even decide what will be their policy and have to warn me that they still dont have much idea of how it will pan out for mr then how can I trust anything they say at all?
Bobinovich
22-May-14, 07:55
I will vote no because when I emailed the yes gang about my concerns I got a reply promising me the good life then before the email was done they stated that it could change as nothing is finalised yet or something similar. If they cant even decide what will be their policy and have to warn me that they still dont have much idea of how it will pan out for mr then how can I trust anything they say at all?
You do understand that they can only sell you a vision, as nothing is written in stone yet. Don't forget that while the SNP may be in government, they have said that post-Yes negotiations to determine the future of Scotland will be cross-party - therefore some of what the SNP would like to introduce into a Scottish Constitution might be countered by other parties during said negotiations. We can only hope that the parties involved will agree to do what is best for ALL of Scotland - but at least it will be decided by people voted for within this country!
Southern - Gal did you email the Better Together gang to ask them exactly the same question?
Southern-Gal
22-May-14, 14:59
Southern - Gal did you email the Better Together gang to ask them exactly the same question?
I posted my email and reply in a separate thread some time ago Squidge. Have a look through my post you will find it easily enough as I started a new thread for it :)
Southern-Gal
22-May-14, 15:21
Here it is :)
http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?221204-Response-from-Scottish-Government-re-my-question-put-to-them.
Thanks southern-gal :) . I remember the thread lol. Did you ask Better Together and get a response from Them too? I have checked through the thread and can't see a post referring to a reply from Better Together.
Southern-Gal
23-May-14, 08:32
I am now not sure who I emailed. I sent it to an address from what I thought was their official website!
Are you telling me that the yes brigade have many different replies to the same question depending on which of their different websites you contact?
Surely the response should be the same from whichever official source I get it from???
Oh dear - Im not making myself clear. I know you asked the YES campaign and i saw your reply and read it - I am asking did you send the same or a similar email to the BETTER TOGETHER campaign - you know - the NO campaign to ask THEM what they are saying will happen in the event of a no vote and I am wondering what their reply was to the same question.
So mi16 are you saying that in five years time nothing will have changed? I would ask you or anyone else - Rob perhaps, or orkneycadian or anyone else who is voting no to answer some of the questions that I asked of the main No supporting parties over the last couple of years.
Lets look at what is important to me and some of the other issues raised on this forum over the last wee while and see if you can answer these questions for me
In the event of a No vote for Scottish Independence can you please tell me what income tax rate I will be paying in Scotland and in the rest of the UK in
2016?
Can you also tell me what the policy in Scotland and the UK will be for disability benefits will be in 2016?
Can you tell me how you propose to enable people unemployed in Scotland and the UK to return to work in 2016?
Can you explain to me what the policy for immigration into Scotland and the UK will be in 2016?
Over a longer period of time can you tell me how the UK will address the issues of inequality in life expectancy and health inequalities in Scotland and the UK over the next ten years?
Can you also tell me whether house prices in Scotland will rise or whether they will stagnate in the three years immediately after 2016? and further whether they will rise or fall in the next ten years and how that will compare to the rest of the UK.
Can you tell me what Westminster will do to curtail the need for people to use foodbanks in Scotland and the UK over the next five years?
Can you tell me what Westminster will do to make childcare more affordable for Families in Scotland and the UK over the next ten years?
Can you tell me how Westminster will support and promote Scotland's whisky industry and its food industry over the next five years?
Can you tell me what Westminster will do to support the fishing industry in Scotland and the UK over the next five years?
Can you tell me how Westminster will ensure that Scotland doesnt get involved in offensive action in other countries?
Can you tell me how Westminster will enable Scotland to become Nuclear weapon free in the next twenty years?
Can you tell me what Westminster will do to promote renewable energy in 2016?
Also I would like to know how much more borrowing the UK will need to do over the next five years and what the UK credit rating and the exchange rate with the euro and the dollar will be in 2016.
Can you tell me whether you will continue to use the Barnett Formula to allocate money to Scotland or not and how much money will be allocated for Scotland in 2016?
Finally can you tell me if there will still be a Scottish Parliament in ten years time.
Regards
So mi16 are you saying that in five years time nothing will have changed?
- No
I would ask you or anyone else - Rob perhaps, or orkneycadian or anyone else who is voting no to answer some of the questions that I asked of the main No supporting parties over the last couple of years.
Lets look at what is important to me and some of the other issues raised on this forum over the last wee while and see if you can answer these questions for me
In the event of a No vote for Scottish Independence can you please tell me what income tax rate I will be paying in Scotland and in the rest of the UK in
2016? - No, can you?
Can you also tell me what the policy in Scotland and the UK will be for disability benefits will be in 2016? - No, can you?
Can you tell me how you propose to enable people unemployed in Scotland and the UK to return to work in 2016? - by getting off their lazy behinds and finding a job, same as it has always been!!
Can you explain to me what the policy for immigration into Scotland and the UK will be in 2016? - No, can you?
Over a longer period of time can you tell me how the UK will address the issues of inequality in life expectancy and health inequalities in Scotland and the UK over the next ten years? - No, can you?
Can you also tell me whether house prices in Scotland will rise or whether they will stagnate in the three years immediately after 2016? and further whether they will rise or fall in the next ten years and how that will compare to the rest of the UK. - No, can you?
Can you tell me what Westminster will do to curtail the need for people to use foodbanks in Scotland and the UK over the next five years? - No, can you?
Can you tell me what Westminster will do to make childcare more affordable for Families in Scotland and the UK over the next ten years? - No, can you?
Can you tell me how Westminster will support and promote Scotland's whisky industry and its food industry over the next five years? - No perhaps by drinking more, can you?
Can you tell me what Westminster will do to support the fishing industry in Scotland and the UK over the next five years? - No, can you?
Can you tell me how Westminster will ensure that Scotland doesnt get involved in offensive action in other countries? - the tartan army do that every away game
Can you tell me how Westminster will enable Scotland to become Nuclear weapon free in the next twenty years? - I hope we are not
Can you tell me what Westminster will do to promote renewable energy in 2016? - have you seen all the turbines and solar panels across the UK?
Also I would like to know how much more borrowing the UK will need to do over the next five years and what the UK credit rating and the exchange rate with the euro and the dollar will be in 2016. -No, can you?
Can you tell me whether you will continue to use the Barnett Formula to allocate money to Scotland or not and how much money will be allocated for Scotland in 2016? No, can you?
Finally can you tell me if there will still be a Scottish Parliament in ten years time. - I hope not
That's exactly the answers I expected mi16 and not in a smug way but in a matter of fact way.
However there are a couple of certainties I did find.
1. If we vote yes then all money raised in Scotland will be spent, by a Scottish Government on Scottish priorities which will be decided on by us - the voters when we vote in 2016 for ever more
2. If we vote No then the Scottish vote will continue to make no difference to the outcome of any General election for ever more.
Thats it really. Want to make any sort of difference? Want the opportunity to change things? Want the chance to develop policies and systems which make a difference to Scotland - your family- your children and grandchildren? Then you really have to vote Yes. With a no vote you might as well not vote at any general election for the rest of your life because that is the amount of influence that the Scottish vote has in the General Elections.
That's exactly the answers I expected mi16 and not in a smug way but in a matter of fact way.
However there are a couple of certainties I did find.
1. If we vote yes then all money raised in Scotland will be spent, by a Scottish Government on Scottish priorities which will be decided on by us - the voters when we vote in 2016 for ever more
2. If we vote No then the Scottish vote will continue to make no difference to the outcome of any General election for ever more.
Thats it really. Want to make any sort of difference? Want the opportunity to change things? Want the chance to develop policies and systems which make a difference to Scotland - your family- your children and grandchildren? Then you really have to vote Yes. With a no vote you might as well not vote at any general election for the rest of your life because that is the amount of influence that the Scottish vote has in the General Elections.
All the money raised by our British government is spent by our British government on Britain's priorities.
I do not want be any part of the independence train wreck that I believe is headed in our direction.
Incidentally can you answer any of the questions you posted in an independent Scotland scenario?
No, of course not. That is precisely the point- there are no certainties or definites with either vote. In both scenarios all the information and intentions rely on whoever is in government.
I think also that you think independence is likely to be a train wreck when I think that the UK governments are driving us directly into a train wreck. I also think that Westminster spend the UKs money on the priorities of the South East and London at the expense of the rest of the UK and that they fail to represent Scotland's interests properly even when requested to do so. I guess that is what makes our views differ. You think the status quo is ok. I think we can do better.
Southern-Gal
23-May-14, 18:12
Squidge are you involved in politics in a professional way or are you an average but passionate woman in the street?
What do you do for a living?
No, of course not. That is precisely the point- there are no certainties or definites with either vote. In both scenarios all the information and intentions rely on whoever is in government. I think also that you think independence is likely to be a train wreck when I think that the UK governments are driving us directly into a train wreck. I also think that Westminster spend the UKs money on the priorities of the South East and London at the expense of the rest of the UK and that they fail to represent Scotland's interests properly even when requested to do so. I guess that is what makes our views differ. You think the status quo is ok. I think we can do better. I dare say we will never see eye to eye on this subject.But we've no died a winter yet
Squidge are you involved in politics in a professional way or are you an average but passionate woman in the street?What do you do for a living?I work part time for a charity as a training officer. I have never been a politician, am not a member of any political party although I was a union rep 25 years ago for a while before we moved to Scotland . Does it matter?
Oh and I am ABSOLUTELY average lol
Tangerine-Dream
23-May-14, 21:26
status quo
They are headlining the Montrose music festival (as we speak!) http://www.montrosemusicfestival.co.uk/wp/?p=5775 A damned good reason to stay part of the union..........
Tangerine-Dream
23-May-14, 21:34
I work part time for a charity as a training officer.
That's very good of you offering your services free of charge..... "or" are you part of the charity that gets a company car and 40K a year salary? The ones that are "training" the unemployed FREE workforce usually get paid and is the main reason why I never donate to "charity"....... NOBODY should be paid, no £20,000 "1st prize" raffles should be offered, no "win a car" scams should be legal etc. etc.... ALL of the money should go direct to the charity and ALL of the people donating their time to the cause should be doing it totally free of charge.
Just my two bobs worth.....
Tangerine-Dream
23-May-14, 21:47
There should be ZERO money gained from donations going to "area managers" blah blah blah....... ALL of the workforce, from the ground upwards, should be doing it for FREE.... as soon as a charity starts deducting for admin costs I smell a rat.... a damned good earner though! People GIVE you stuff for free, you sell it at a premium and some people (in the pecking order) get to drive about in Mercedes cars / £40K a year wages and the poor sods "on the ground" get a pat on the back, if they're lucky.... what a joke!
Southern-Gal
23-May-14, 23:08
I work part time for a charity as a training officer. I have never been a politician, am not a member of any political party although I was a union rep 25 years ago for a while before we moved to Scotland . Does it matter?
Just interested in your background, curious about what type/class/origin of person is very keen either way on the vote :) See I worry because I am from England about the vote being yes but you are from England too and think it will be a good thing for Scotland. Actually that in itself is a bit reassuring for me :)
Have to agree with Tangerine Dream. Some (though maybe not all) charities are anything but charity. But that is really another thread :)
Jeezo Tangerine Dream, I don't get a company car and I don't earn 40k and I don't work doing anything to do with the unemployed. I work for a local charity and get paid - it's my job. I also volunteer for another charity and I spend weekends doing stuff for a not for profit organisation. In fact I'm lying in my medieval tent listening to the sound of pipes and drums inside the grounds of Stirling Castle. Fab!
Southen Gal yup am english too. The driver for me to vote yes is the need for change that I see. I have worked for many years for a better fairer society and I believe an Independent Scotland is the best chance of achieving that. That's why I will vote yes
Chook a demus
31-May-14, 11:45
I've decided to vote No because when asked simple and direct questions about the costs involved in becoming independent the first minister has consistently failed to give credible answers. If Scotland was a business no one would ever allow them to set up using other peoples money without knowing the costs involved.I don't like the centralisation of services within Scotland like the police who as recently reported have started routinely carrying weapons in the highlands and have nearly double the amount of stop and search procedures carried out compared to down south.The failure to hit their own targets on the NHS .And then at this late stage of the game still no clear answer on currency membership of the EU or a whole plethora of other unanswered questions.I'm no lover of the first past the post system or Westminster but I do believe that if we stay part of the Union we will get more devolved powers without having to go it alone.As for immigration it's currently a big issue down south in places which have seen and felt the influx but up here we've been hardly affected at all. With the projected requirement for 1 million people having to come to our country to fulfil the projected dreams being floated that would mean with a population of 5 million that 1 in 5 would be immigrants that's a massive amount of people for a wee country to take, it no doubt it would effect the cultural distinctiveness that makes us unique for the rest of this isle. There are other reasons which add to the uneasy feeling I have about the divineness that's been created by the whole debate and the lack of respect of others views on the subject.
orkneycadian
31-May-14, 12:42
John Swinney was on the radio talking about these costs the other day (Radio Scotland I think).
After ridiculing the start up costs estimated by others, he then refused to answer a direct question about a dozen times about how much the SNP think it will really cost.
Thats what we are up against with the SNP and the Yes camp. They either do not know, or will not say how it is going to be.
As Chock a demus says, if anyone went to the bank to borrow money to start up a business with the same attitude as the SNP, they would be laughed out the door, empty handed! [lol]
Certainly would be worried about any administration resembling the present one. Children's Bill? Did anyone see that slipping through? - This piece of legislation has been passed, with provision for a "state-appointed guardian" for every child from 0-18 years of age. Rob Gibson's latest piece in the 'Groat is headlined "We need control of Broadcasting" There is no revising chamber in Scotland, and until this is rectified, we will continue to get this sort of rubbish creeping into every aspect of normal life
Do we really want this sort of loony left state control stuff in a free society.
Is this the same Rob Gibson who headed up the Aberdeen Uni Socialist Workers' Party group in the 70s? SNP has been a convenient banner for him and a few other nutters .
I can't think of a single reason to say 'yes'.
Green_not_greed
31-May-14, 22:26
John Swinney was on the radio talking about these costs the other day (Radio Scotland I think).
After ridiculing the start up costs estimated by others, he then refused to answer a direct question about a dozen times about how much the SNP think it will really cost.
Thats what we are up against with the SNP and the Yes camp. They either do not know, or will not say how it is going to be.
As Chock a demus says, if anyone went to the bank to borrow money to start up a business with the same attitude as the SNP, they would be laughed out the door, empty handed! [lol]
Have you noticed how close Swinney is to Swindle ?
Tangerine-Dream
31-May-14, 23:10
Who is John Swinney? is he the manager of the Krankies?
All I know about the SNP is that they are all ugly looking folk with as much integrity as a shart.......
Salmond, Swinney and Sturgeon.... are they some type of fish?
I'll be voting for the Scottish guy....... Cameron I think his name is?
;)
Tangerine-Dream
31-May-14, 23:21
Look at the odds...... these guys are NOT stupid folks ;)
http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/scottish-independence/referendum-outcome
Tangerine-Dream
31-May-14, 23:30
We will remain part of the union and thank god..... I just hope the SNP "STFU" up when they lose so that normal TV viewing can go back to normal and is not spoilt by having to endure their nonsensical 2 minute "broadcasts"...... One way or another, whatever the outcome, the losing party should guarantee they will shut up for a period of, at least, 25 years.
Look at the odds...... these guys are NOT stupid folks ;)http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/scottish-independence/referendum-outcome Yes win 3/1No win 1/3However a chap here just won £900 from a £30 stake on tonight's wonderful display of British boxing.Well done Carl Froch a great punch and a Great British champion.George Groves will be back though.
Tangerine-Dream
31-May-14, 23:52
Yes win 3/1No win 1/3However a chap here just won £900 from a £30 stake on tonight's wonderful display of British boxing.Well done Carl Froch a great punch and a Great British champion.George Groves will be back though.
British you say? What part of the United Kingdom was he from?
Tangerine-Dream
31-May-14, 23:58
Scotland?
Wales?
Northern Ireland?
Westminster?
Tangerine-Dream
01-Jun-14, 00:01
or Bradford?
Perhaps Hammersmith?
What have you got against places like Bradford T-dream, that you manage to get a mention into a thread entitled 'why are you voting No?' ?
British you say? What part of the United Kingdom was he from?
Nottingham I believe, whats your point?
Chook a demus
01-Jun-14, 09:50
Current position is roughly 60% NO and 40% yes, so at the moment the majority of people appear to be looking forward to us retaining a position within the UK. I'm still not comfortable with a first minister who cannot answer serious questions about the costs of independence without resorting to that silly little smirk of his and some inconsequential comment which doesn't directly address the very serious questions being posed to him.
orkneycadian
09-Jun-14, 00:51
We will remain part of the union and thank god..... I just hope the SNP "STFU" up when they lose so that normal TV viewing can go back to normal and is not spoilt by having to endure their nonsensical 2 minute "broadcasts"...... One way or another, whatever the outcome, the losing party should guarantee they will shut up for a period of, at least, 25 years.
I would have though that on a no vote, that Alex, Nicola, et al, would be tendering their resignations and we would be into a new round of Scottish Government elections? Or perhaps that wold be the cue for the disbanding of the Scottish Government, and Holyrood being given over to a soup kitchen or an art gallery or something?
youngarthur
21-Jul-14, 13:19
Undecided. Too many......What If?, for me to make a rational decision.
I cannot think of one good reason to vote yes.
elvisisallive
21-Jul-14, 14:14
No way guys!
Redsnapper
22-Jul-14, 13:09
Have any of you ever watched PMQ ? and this wonderful group of self-seeking -snouts in the trough- spineless, self interested millionaires from whatever political leaning who actually purport to have any interest in anything north of Watford except to get re-elected and you are happy to re-elect that? , than to take a chance on having something possible more equitable-- shame on you all.
.
Redsnapper
22-Jul-14, 14:37
What a convincing arguement gollach--- (and reasons to vote no??)
Because I do not want Scotland`s future being decided here in Scotland. I would rather get a Government I did not vote for.
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