View Full Version : Does Spelling really matter?
Do we really need to be good spellers? Do we need to pressure our children with learning complicated spelling? Do we really need to teach phonics as we can see from the writing below it is the whole word that is important?!!
How Smart are you?
Olny srmat poelpe can raed tihs. I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt!
Why stress the poor speller - Pobodys Nerfect!
Spelling seems to matter to the American Religious Right who, according to an article (http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2024762,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=12) in todays Guardian are criticising Wikipedia for using the British spelling of words.
I've nothing against America using our language and even altering it if they want to but to then claim that their version is the only correct one and should be used on a global basis is going too far where I'm concerned.
Spelling seems to matter to the American Religious Right who, according to an article (http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2024762,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=12) in todays Guardian are criticising Wikipedia for using the British spelling of words.
I've nothing against America using our language and even altering it if they want to but to then claim that their version is the only correct one and should be used on a global basis is going too far where I'm concerned.
Please do not turn an attempt at a discussion of spelling in our system into a US English v UK English or Political dabate.
How Smart are you?
Olny srmat poelpe can raed tihs. I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt!
Yes, I think spelling is important. The point you have put across, I underatand, but this is in the case of all the correct letters being there, but being in the wrong order.
If you look at other posts (and not picking on anyone in particular) you will find that a lot of people use 'text' or txt. These become increasingly difficult to work out and depends on the persons interpretation of shortening the word.
I'm not perfect and I'm sure there are spelling mistakes in my posts at times, but during an MSN conversation with someone aged 15, I struggled to understand what they were saying and doubt they would pass any exams if they answered them the way they type.
I used to give someone a lift to work and she used to text me and it would take 10 minutes to work out what she was saying.
I don't think people should be criticised for the odd spelling mistake, but to let standards drop entirely would result in txt spk bng th nrm!! I dnt kno bout u, bt I wdnt lke tht!! :roll:
:lol: Your post makes a good point Cattach, but I'm sure that, in some cases, the correct spelling of things make us a bit more safe!
(and no I can't think of any examples right now... tis WAY too elray in the mroinng - but I'm srue ohtres can!)
j4bberw0ck
02-Mar-07, 10:26
Why bother with spelling?
Why bother with any sort of activity requiring discipline, mental or otherwise?
Why bother to speak English at all?
Why bother to have manners?
Why bother to care about others?
Why bother to learn anything?
Why bother to go to school?
Why bother..........zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.. ..................
It's the use of the word "bother" that confuses me. Bother implies it's a hassle, it's trouble, it's an effort, it's a worry........
Correct spelling should be a matter of pride. Isn't that a quaint, old fashioned notion in a country where feeling proud of an accomplishment is in effect sharpening the axe for some socially incompetent knuckledragger, and putting your head on the block? Anyone can learn to spell if they wish (dyslexia, we'll leave aside for a moment).
The English language has the largest vocabulary of all languages. If people can't spell, you cancel out most of the language. Goodbye scientific papers. Goodbye poetry. Hello gibbering patois, nonsense non-communication.[evil]
j4bberw0ck
02-Mar-07, 10:30
That said, >>>this<<< (http://members.aol.com/VoxVideus/meihem.html) is witty, and in many ways logical. "Meihem in ce Klasrum", by Dolton Edwards, written 1946. Well worth a read.... perhaps it's a more logical and elegant version of what the texting generation has in store for them......
Spelling matters 100% in lots of jobs, general practicioners, surgeons, nurses, chemists, pharmacists, etc, etc.
Without good spelling peoples lives would be at stake.
It's the use of the word "bother" that confuses me. Bother implies it's a hassle, it's trouble, it's an effort, it's a worry........
Correct spelling should be a matter of pride. Anyone can learn to spell if they wish (dyslexia, we'll leave aside for a moment).
I agree jw0ck.
A member of my family is dyslexic, so for him correct spelling is an effort. He doesn't always get it right.
He does make the effort though, because to him it is a matter of pride, and because not being able to spell correctly caused him problems as a child.
For someone to say correct spelling doesn't matter devalues the time and trouble he's taken, and still takes, to get it right. :(
Spelling seems to matter to the American Religious Right who, according to an article (http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2024762,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=12) in todays Guardian are criticising Wikipedia for using the British spelling of words.
I've nothing against America using our language and even altering it if they want to but to then claim that their version is the only correct one and should be used on a global basis is going too far where I'm concerned.
If we were going to give rights of ownership to any National body to change a language as per its name then it is neither a talking point for the American Right or even the Scottish North for discussion.
But don't get me wrong, the English the gave their language to the World and aren't in control of their language anymore, it was never theirs anyway, the USA is 350 million strong, most still speak English(though Spanish is expected to overtake one day) so I think if they have a gripe about spelling mistakes on an American owned website then I fully understand where they are coming from, just recently Darkman has complained about American words on a Scottish website so what is the difference?? I think people should get off high horses over such a trivial matter, the English language is the best in the World, it is alive and susceptible to change, that is what makes it special. I don't think it should be 'open season' for bad spellers though, language change is not driven by bad spelling but by the adoption of words that the people of the time deem fit for purpose.
Personally I think the use of correct spelling is very important, spelling mistakes and bad grammar irritate me, in this day and age there is no real excuse for it unless of course the person is dyslexic.
I used to work on a helpdesk and after about 3 years I came to the sad conclusion that a hell of a lot of people in Britain today are just plain illiterate. I've also come across people who can't even spell the name of the street that they live in!
I used to work on a helpdesk and after about 3 years I came to the sad conclusion that a hell of a lot of people in Britain today are just plain illiterate. I've also come across people who can't even spell the name of the street that they live in!
That's quite scary.
Saying that, I quite often get my name "corrected" for me after I have filled in application forms etc. as my first names and surname is/are spelt the less usual way. That can be quite frustrating. I'm not exactly sure how that can happen.
ŠAmethyst
02-Mar-07, 14:18
Personally I think the use of correct spelling is very important, spelling mistakes and bad grammer irritates me, in this day and age there is no real excuse for it unless of course the person is dyslexic.
There's not really much of an excuse for dyslexics, as I see it. Hans Christian Andersen and Agatha Christie are just two names of authors I can think of with dyslexia. I know a few dyslexics, and to be honest... they can spell better than I can, I'm sure! They concentrate more on their spelling. Maybe if we all did a little more than we already do we'll be able to get that CV absolutely perfect, be able to read a little faster, not worry about what people think of your spelling in a letter... etc.
Yeah, it's important, and I believe that anyone can do it if a dyslexic can write for a living. All people have to do is apply themselves a little more.
Metalattakk
02-Mar-07, 14:31
Of course spelling is important. In fact it's vital (especially in a medium such as this - the internet messageboard) when you are trying to communicate with others.
If people can't understand what you're trying to say, then your voice is silenced. It's not rocket science.
j4bberw0ck
02-Mar-07, 15:05
the English the gave their language to the World and aren't in control of their language anymore
Funny thing about American English. The Pilgrim Fathers left England in the early 1600's, speaking the English of the time. That English became American English today, with its -ize endings, color, favorite, "gotten" as a past participle and so on, and is closer to traditional English than modern day British English. In the 18th and 19th centuries, French was the universal language of diplomacy and learning - if you had social standing, you had to speak French.
So English absorbed French influences: -ise endings, -our endings, envelope (the noun, not the verb) pronounced "on-velope" and so on, because it was thought to be a mark of learning.
And so finally, it's possible to make a case for Americans being the guardians of traditional English...... how's that for an irony?
Cattach: not trying to prise a political / anti-American rant from anyone ;) . Just trying to show that language evolves and maybe Brits don't have a monopoly on the right way to speak it.
Read any old manuscript, map etc., and you can see how our language has evolved. I don't know when the "correct English" as in most schools today was decided but I don't think it was that long ago.
Look at the words we use today without going into txt.spk. It seems to be ok to say don't instead of do not, can't/can not, you'll/you will, etc., etc., and this seems to be acceptable accross the board.
I like the way we write i.e. 20th century, but I don't/do not think we can stop it.
Buttercup
02-Mar-07, 18:36
Please do not turn an attempt at a discussion of spelling in our system into a US English v UK English or Political dabate.
How Smart are you?
Olny srmat poelpe can raed tihs. I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt!
Indeed! ;)
Spelling matters 100% in lots of jobs, general practicioners, surgeons, nurses, chemists, pharmacists, etc, etc.
Without good spelling peoples lives would be at stake.
I agree its a vital skill that seems sorely lacking these days. I wish people would take it more seriously. I have a college exam and am told if my spelling is not up to scratch I will lose marks. This seems logical to me, but seems to worry some of my classmates.
I agree with Jab - the English language has come a very long way and generations of development have gone into what we use today. We should take pride in knowing and understanding our language thoroughly. It will, no doubt, continue to develop further as time slides by but let us not hasten its demise into some primaeval morass of gibberish by simply taking a lazy stance.
If we were going to give rights of ownership to any National body to change a language as per its name then it is neither a talking point for the American Right or even the Scottish North for discussion.
But don't get me wrong, the English the gave their language to the World and aren't in control of their language anymore, it was never theirs anyway, the USA is 350 million strong, most still speak English(though Spanish is expected to overtake one day) so I think if they have a gripe about spelling mistakes on an American owned website then I fully understand where they are coming from, just recently Darkman has complained about American words on a Scottish website so what is the difference?? I think people should get off high horses over such a trivial matter, the English language is the best in the World, it is alive and susceptible to change, that is what makes it special. I don't think it should be 'open season' for bad spellers though, language change is not driven by bad spelling but by the adoption of words that the people of the time deem fit for purpose.
Wikipedia isn't American owned, it's run by a foundation comprising of people from several countries and financed by public subscription. The content is public domain released under the GNU license.
It was Darkman who complained not me, as far as I'm concerned so long as the meaning is conveyed it doesn't matter how a word is spelt.
I agree its a vital skill that seems sorely lacking these days. I wish people would take it more seriously. I have a college exam and am told if my spelling is not up to scratch I will lose marks. This seems logical to me, but seems to worry some of my classmates.
Concentrate on your exams and make sure you do not lose any marks for spelling.
Do not worry about others not caring about losing marks for spelling errors and just do your own thing and you wont go far wrong.
Never use a metaphor, simile, or other figure of speech which you are used to seeing in print.
Never use a long word where a short one will do.
If it is possible to cut a word out, always cut it out.
Never use the passive where you can use the active.
Never use a foreign phrase, a scientific word, or a jargon word if you can think of an everyday English equivalent.
Break any of these rules sooner than say anything outright barbarous.
Kids are leaving school unable to spell or do simple arithmetic these days. My wife is a lecturer at FE college and the number of students she has who are illiterate is frankly shameful.
So yes it is important to spell correctly. If they can't even write a decent CV how can they expect to get employment?
Kids are leaving school unable to spell or do simple arithmetic these days. My wife is a lecturer at FE college and the number of students she has who are illiterate is frankly shameful.
So yes it is important to spell correctly. If they can't even write a decent CV how can they expect to get employment?
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/7695/VERGER.HTM
As far as i am concerned good spelling and more import good grammer shows a sign of paying attention. Now i know my spelling is not the best but bad grammer really annoys me. the wrong use of to or too, for example.
It makes things very hard to read, and i am always shocked when i read on here and other places the utter lack of full stops or commas. At my work we quite often have to write notes on peoples comp records and some of the younger staff, i really struggle to understand them.
i will admit, when i see REALLY bad grammer i do think less of the author.
As far as i am concerned good spelling and more import good grammer shows a sign of paying attention. Now i know my spelling is not the best but bad grammer really annoys me. the wrong use of to or too, for example.
It makes things very hard to read, and i am always shocked when i read on here and other places the utter lack of full stops or commas. At my work we quite often have to write notes on peoples comp records and some of the younger staff, i really struggle to understand them.
i will admit, when i see REALLY bad grammer i do think less of the author.
Grammar is spelt like grammar.
I believe that spelling does matter, what would happen if for instance you went to the doctor and he wrote out a prescription for you and spelt out the name of the medication you required wrongly, which in turn ment that you were given the wrong one, i am sure you would think it would matter then:confused
It was Darkman who complained not me, as far as I'm concerned so long as the meaning is conveyed it doesn't matter how a word is spelt.
It matters to me.
I believe that spelling does matter, what would happen if for instance you went to the doctor and he wrote out a prescription for you and spelt out the name of the medication you required wrongly, which in turn ment that you were given the wrong one, i am sure you would think it would matter then:confused
That's why doctors always use such clear and legible copper plate handwriting.
I think that in the thurso area anyway you can tell what primary people went to by the way they spell.Myself my spelling is bad i went to miller and we were taught to read phenitically so for the first few years every thing we read was spelt wrong. but I do know that spelling wont hold you back in exams. I have managed to get a Ba and ma in History and Im currently studying for my Phd my dissertation being Christianity a conversion or a compromise. (hi Fred guess you know who I am now I AM BACK) I found that when sitting exams the board have so many to read that they only proof read so long as your key points are in order and spelt correctly they pass you anyway.
That's why doctors always use such clear and legible copper plate handwriting.
I'm sure that you would be just as facetious,:Razz if you were to be prescribed the wrong medication due to a doctor's spelling mistake and were seriously ill as a result[disgust]
Kids are leaving school unable to spell or do simple arithmetic these days. My wife is a lecturer at FE college and the number of students she has who are illiterate is frankly shameful.
So yes it is important to spell correctly. If they can't even write a decent CV how can they expect to get employment?
I'd totally agree with your wife, I've met a few myself. I know there are some that can't because of conditions that prevent them but there are so many that can't because of other learning needs, lack of being in school, application to stucy at school and plain old bad teaching at times:(
Spelling seems to matter to the American Religious Right who, according to an article (http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2024762,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=12) in todays Guardian are criticising Wikipedia for using the British spelling of words.
I've nothing against America using our language and even altering it if they want to but to then claim that their version is the only correct one and should be used on a global basis is going too far where I'm concerned.I read that article. Did you see the guff they they wanted to replace Wikipedia's entries with? It was so extreme that no-one should take it seriously. Then we said that about Gubba Wubba Bush and look where that got us.
How often do we see posts complaining about bad grammer (sic)? I think grammar is the least of our problems. Spelling is sometimes bad but punctuation is usually much worse.
j4bberw0ck
03-Mar-07, 12:54
Pet gripe (yes, another one :lol: ) of mine is the confusion of words which have completely different meanings, such as:
"Amount" used instead of "number" (e.g. "the amount of visits to this website is increasing" when what's meant is "the number of visits")
"Less" used for "fewer" (e.g. "there are less visitors to this website today than there were yesterday" when it should be "there are fewer visitors".
Even the BBC - that so-called authority on the language - gets those wrong more and more often.
And don't even get me started on some of the stuff reported on in the news on TV - the Pry Minister (is this the person in charge of ID cards and tracking cars for road pricing?) , the Home Sekkertree and his mate the Foreign Sekkertree, the deteriation (for deterioration) of spoken English and various other examples of diabolical pronunciation.
Oh yes - and ishoos...... [lol]
I read that article. Did you see the guff they they wanted to replace Wikipedia's entries with? It was so extreme that no-one should take it seriously. Then we said that about Gubba Wubba Bush and look where that got us.
Yep, I saw it but I thought I'd limit my post to the subject of spelling so as not to get flamed.
Lotta good it did me.
Suppose it's like anything else really - if it's worth doing it's worth doing well. You can either take a pride in what you do or you can go through life seeing what you can get away with (says she ending with a preposition [disgust] ). Sometimes bad spelling/grammar does makes it hard to understand what you're trying to read, which is annoying. Like J4bberw0ck I get furious with radio/tv and have your listened to presenters of children's programmes? Why is it the media assume children can't appreciate and understand good English, art, music etc.? It's insulting the way the media talk down to children.
Sorry, had to take this thread back to the top after being irritated by the advert in the Caithness Courier for a Krazy Korner Klothing Klearance at Buttress's - how can we expect 'the younger generation' to learn anything ?? [evil] [evil]
percy toboggan
04-Apr-07, 18:36
Do we really need to be good spellers? Do we need to pressure our children with learning complicated spelling? Do we really need to teach phonics as we can see from the writing below it is the whole word that is important?!!
How Smart are you?
Olny srmat poelpe can raed tihs. I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt!
Why stress the poor speller - Pobodys Nerfect!
My gut reaction was to give you bad feedback for such a ridiculous post. This is a completely stupid question. I resisted my first instinct - I have never done that to anyone and it is a petty gesture. However, if a person cannot spell very well he/she will never be in the top drawer academically. We can't all be and there are other more important attributes but to answer you question....Emphatically YES. Of course I read you mis-spelt paragraph without any trouble whatsoever, as will have mos twho scan this board. Had I not known it was deliberate I would have deduced it was written by a dyslexic,or an ill educated lummox. I'd have made allowances for the former, and felt pity for the latter. Were it part of an appication from him/her for a journalistic job or similar they'd not have got an interview.
Of corse it is important to be abel too spel!
I don't have a problem with poor spelling.............I do, however, have a problem with wrong spelling (and grammar) in schools not being corrected...............and with teachers who can't spell teaching children.
I do, however, have a problem with wrong and grammar in schools not being corrected...............and with teachers who can't spell teaching children.
Run that one by me again -
"and with teachers who can't spell teaching children."
Yup - You said it!
Funny that this all relates to an article in the Guardian - a paper so famed for its spelling mistakes that it's often referred to as the Grauniad!
Yes, I'd say it was pretty important really. Typos is another thing entirely (I rattle off loads of them :) )
Some people cannot spell due to dyslexia which can affect even their ability to read with any comfort. I think that's different.
Others can't spell because they were poorly educated or made a poor showing at school or took no interest when they were supposed to be being educated.
Yet others just have no real ability with English, they might be brilliant artists, mathemeticians or plumbers, they just can't spell. A friend of mine who is a member of MENSA has an uncanny ability with three-dimensional image and form manipulation... in his head, but his spelling is attrocious.
Others are simply too thick!
I think the main thing is not to make any spelling mistakes or typos on your Curriculum Vitae. :)
Bobinovich
04-Apr-07, 22:49
I'm one of those people who tut and shake my head at bad spelling, punctuation and grammar. I take my time in composing my messages, whether they be e-mails, posts, SMS, or whatever means I am currently using.
I only use txt speak in SMS messages if I'm running out of characters! preferring to use predictive input to spell the whole word instead - sad I know but once you get used to it it's actually quite fast.
My son is in Miller Academy and I do much of his homework with him. He must get annoyed with me sometimes as I do tend to repeatedly go over mispronounced words in his reading and when verbally doing his spelling. However I do praise him to the hilt and try and make it fun whenever possible - from his reports the methods seem to be working.
Sadly for me I've all but lost the ability to write neatly though :( - I was never that great TBH but after almost 15 years of using computers day in, day out, my scrawl would make a doctor proud!
Run that one by me again -
"and with teachers who can't spell teaching children."
Yup - You said it!
I'm talking from the viewpoint of watching my son correcting, for the teacher, in red, her version of the spelling my grandson had to do for homework...................and also from my grandson being penalised for correcting his teacher in one of her history "facts".
I'm afraid that I am reluctantly coming to the conclusion that education has been dumbed down so much that even the teachers don't have to have an adequate one.
So what chance do our children and grandchildren have? :confused
I get so annoyed by mispelling that at times steam has been seen to come out of my ears!
This weekend my sun in not coming to visit ! I will not bough to The Queen and I will not find it awefull.
I am always surprised that people cannot take the time to learn the correct spelling of words let alone what they mean and also the pronunciation.
Whilst appreciating that the language is a mix of many and dialects are also an influence surely the basic rules could be taught without too much hardship.
I would not denigrate those who are dyslexic as that can be a real trial although with help even they can resolve the problem.
I suspect that the era of the sixties has alot to answer for in this matter when it was considered improper to correct a child in whatever form they chose to express themselves.
To quote the words of a very famous book, "As you sow, so shall you reap."
"I rest my case m'lud."
B]Emphatically YES. Of course I read you mis-spelt paragraph without any trouble whatsoever, as will have mos twho scan this board. [/B]
Just to be a pedant.
You have mis-spelt mis-spelled. In other words, mis-spelled was mis-spelt.:p
I'm talking from the viewpoint of watching my son correcting, for the teacher, in red, her version of the spelling my grandson had to do for homework...................and also from my grandson being penalised for correcting his teacher in one of her history "facts".
Not to labour your point too much here, but:
Is the teacher in red?
and
You are watching your son correcting her version of the spelling?
So what chance do our children and grandchildren have?
j4bberw0ck
05-Apr-07, 12:51
Not to labour your point too much here, but:
Is the teacher in red?
Have to come to Oddy's defence on that one. The use of commas correctly indicates the subject is the correction, not the teacher, though the construction of the sentence might benefit from some work :lol: .
But her missing of a comma you picked up on in a previous post was grammatically important, and changed the meaning of the sentence from teacher's ability to spell, to the teacher's ability to spell "children spelling".
Important particularly as it was a complaint about poor grammar!
Isn't English wonderful? :eek: And doesn't it just show that without spelling and grammar it's just a sort of imprecise grunting?
Isn't English wonderful? :eek: And doesn't it just show that without spelling and grammar it's just a sort of imprecise grunting?
beautifully phrased! Couldn't have said it better myself, or even as well :)
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