View Full Version : Scottish General Election.
piratelassie
08-Mar-14, 22:55
Some people seem to think a vote for independence is a vote for a particular political party, it's not. it's a vote for Scotland's future.With a yes result there will be a Scottish general election in 2016 and whatever government is formed they will then, and only then, start talks with Westminster regarding shared asset's and debt's. At this stage all rhetoric will turn to reality,so if anyone is looking for answers just now you won't get any because Westminster won't talk........yet.
To say a vote for Scottish independence is not a vote for Scottish Nationalism is something of a leap.
Bobinovich
08-Mar-14, 23:28
...With a yes result there will be a Scottish general election in 2016 and whatever government is formed they will then, and only then, start talks with Westminster regarding shared asset's and debt's...
I'm sure you posted that on another thread recently and I recall that Squidge corrected you in that cross-party talks with Westminster (and most likely the EU too) would start straight after a Yes vote in September, and continue through to the election in 2016...
To say a vote for Scottish independence is not a vote for Scottish Nationalism is something of a leap.
SNP is the Scottish National Party, not the Scottish Nationalist Party, big difference.
piratelassie
09-Mar-14, 01:55
Talks will start right after a yes vote. What I was trying to say was that after the 2016 election it would be a fully elected Scottish Government doing the talking.
orkneycadian
09-Mar-14, 02:46
...in 2016 and whatever government is formed they will then, and only then, start talks with Westminster
Talks will start right after a yes vote.
Theres something about everything that the Yes camp say that makes me wary. Just can't quite put my finger on what it is though....
Just like any campaign people are trying to make sense of what they read and hear. In the same way as some who believe NO vote is the right action because they think they will lose their British citizenship, or because they think that armed forces personnel are being denied a vote, or that Standard life are instructing their staff to start packing boxes , people sometimes misunderstand the information that is out there. That's why I like to go back to the law, the actual press release, the white paper.... Then you know what is actually being said or proposed. In this case negotiations will take place between a YES vote and the date of Independence.
orkneycadian
09-Mar-14, 12:31
And in the unlikely event of a Yes vote in September, when is the 2nd Neverendum to be held? The one where Eck and Nic update us on the outcome of these "negotiations" and ask if we still want to go ahead or not? The one where they tell us that they have been unsuccessful in negotiating a currency union, fast track EU membership, NATO membership, etc, and here is how it is going to be if we vote to go ahead?
weezer 316
09-Mar-14, 13:52
Theres something about everything that the Yes camp say that makes me wary. Just can't quite put my finger on what it is though....
Yes I too struggle to pinpoint exactly where it all goes awry at time with piratelassie. She usually makes such accurate and incisive statements too.
orkneycadian
09-Mar-14, 14:42
I wonder how well squidge and piratelassie would fare if Eck and Nic were travelling salespeople, selling double glazing, driveway tarring, roof cleaning or whatever....
"Here doll, just sign this legally binding contract and give us your credit card details. We can't tell you how much the job will cost, what it will entail or when we will actually do it, but just sign the contract anyway. You know you can trust us." :)
orkneycadian
09-Mar-14, 14:52
"Oh, and by the way doll, we forgot to mention, theres no statutory 7 day cooling off period where you can change your mind. Once you've signed, you're locked in to the contract."
"Oh, and by the way doll, we forgot to mention, theres no statutory 7 day cooling off period where you can change your mind. Once you've signed, you're locked in to the contract."
It seems to me then that a Yes vote brings political unity whereas a No vote will perpetuate a politically split Scotland.
orkneycadian
09-Mar-14, 23:52
To be honest, to us up here, Edinburgh is so far away it might as well be London, or Brussels. The Weegies might think they have local rule in the event of independence, but up here, we are still going to be ruled by folk a long way away, whether they be English or "Lowlanders". I have no problem with either of these demographic groups, but being ruled from the Central Belt fills me with no more enthusiasm than being ruled from Westminster. This is, I feel, why the "Our Islands, Our Future (Our Oil)" campaign is finding so much support in the Northern and Western Isles.
It seems to me then that a Yes vote brings political unity whereas a No vote will perpetuate a politically split Scotland.
How do you work that out? :confused
orkneycadian
13-Mar-14, 19:27
And in the unlikely event of a Yes vote in September, when is the 2nd Neverendum to be held? The one where Eck and Nic update us on the outcome of these "negotiations" and ask if we still want to go ahead or not? The one where they tell us that they have been unsuccessful in negotiating a currency union, fast track EU membership, NATO membership, etc, and here is how it is going to be if we vote to go ahead?
Anyone know how to do one of those Tumbleweed smileys? You know, the one that people post when there's a deafening silence?
I'm a bit lost on that one too - care to elucidate Reggy?
orkneycadian
18-Mar-14, 19:38
Anyone know how to do one of those Tumbleweed smileys? You know, the one that people post when there's a deafening silence?
Yep, that sure is a deafening silence!
So am I right in thinking then that we vote in September, so an outcome we have no idea on, and once its voted for, thats it, no going back, no matter how badly the "negotiations" go?
I wonder how Russia / Ukraine / Crimea can rustle up a referendum in a matter of weeks, when our lot have taken years, and can't even manage a 2nd referendum to ask us if we want to go ahead or not, post negotiations?
I reckon it's pretty obvious now how Russia can do it.
Flood the country with unidentified armed men, take over key installations, suppress the opposition, organise your own 'referendum'. Bob's your aunty's husband!
Bet Westminster wish they had thought of that before signing paper in Edinburgh.....
I wonder how Russia / Ukraine / Crimea can rustle up a referendum in a matter of weeks, when our lot have taken years....
Not as long as it'll take the Westminster Tory Government to rustle up their promised referendum on Europe, last I heard it is now planned for 2017, a whole 3 years away yet.
Bobinovich
18-Mar-14, 23:08
Not as long as it'll take the Westminster Tory Government to rustle up their promised referendum on Europe, last I heard it is now planned for 2017, a whole 3 years away yet.
That's assuming they get back in of course - Labour are saying an outright nein to a referendum on the EU!
That's the thing though isn't it? We vote yes and we don't get a vote on Europe, how is that democratic? Salmond just assumes he has the power to negotiate EU membership without consulting the Scottish people.
Bobinovich
19-Mar-14, 00:01
That's the thing though isn't it? We vote yes and we don't get a vote on Europe, how is that democratic? Salmond just assumes he has the power to negotiate EU membership without consulting the Scottish people.
In the event of a Yes vote in September, there is due to be cross-party talks to discuss what's best for Scotland, so it's not up to Salmond & the SNP alone. There are a few questions which could easily be put to a public vote such as 'Do you want to remain in, or apply for membership of, the EU', 'Do you want to continue having nuclear weapons based in Scotland', 'Do you want to continue having nuclear power based in Scotland', and so on to determine what the majority of Scots actually want, and then they can go and negotiate as required.
In the event of a Yes vote in September, there is due to be cross-party talks to discuss what's best for Scotland, so it's not up to Salmond & the SNP alone. There are a few questions which could easily be put to a public vote such as 'Do you want to remain in, or apply for membership of, the EU', 'Do you want to continue having nuclear weapons based in Scotland', 'Do you want to continue having nuclear power based in Scotland', and so on to determine what the majority of Scots actually want, and then they can go and negotiate as required.
Sounds like a lot of ifs, buts, and maybes to me
Isn't it better the Devil you know?
Isn't it better the Devil you know?
Bit of a cliché there, would you say that to a domestic violence victim trying to get out of the abusive situation & going into the unknown?
2little2late
19-Mar-14, 00:32
I must admit. When I vote in the EU referendum I'll be voting for the United Kingdom to leave.
orkneycadian
19-Mar-14, 20:11
The Scottish independence neverendum debate has taken a new twist with the news that the "Our Islands, Our Future (Our Oil)" campaign has marched forward, and there are now calls, and a petition for, a referendum on Orkney, Shetland and Western Isles independence from Scotland;
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/10705477/Shetland-and-Orkney-should-get-vote-on-whether-to-leave-Scotland.html
(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/10705477/Shetland-and-Orkney-should-get-vote-on-whether-to-leave-Scotland.html)
It will be interesting to see how this one pans out. We can fully expect that Holyrood should be 100% supportive of this. It would, after all, be completely hypocritical to be extolling the benefits of independence on one hand, whilst suggesting we would be "better together" on the other.
I expect that there may have to be some rewriting of the prospectus for Scottish independence. If Orkney, Shetland and the Western Isles vote for independence a week after Scotland does, then the loss of much of the North Sea oil revenue to Scotland will make some of the projections in Scotlands prospectus somewhat inaccurate.
tonkatojo
19-Mar-14, 20:22
The Scottish independence neverendum debate has taken a new twist with the news that the "Our Islands, Our Future (Our Oil)" campaign has marched forward, and there are now calls, and a petition for, a referendum on Orkney, Shetland and Western Isles independence from Scotland;
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/10705477/Shetland-and-Orkney-should-get-vote-on-whether-to-leave-Scotland.html
(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/10705477/Shetland-and-Orkney-should-get-vote-on-whether-to-leave-Scotland.html)
It will be interesting to see how this one pans out. We can fully expect that Holyrood should be 100% supportive of this. It would, after all, be completely hypocritical to be extolling the benefits of independence on one hand, whilst suggesting we would be "better together" on the other.
I expect that there may have to be some rewriting of the prospectus for Scottish independence. If Orkney, Shetland and the Western Isles vote for independence a week after Scotland does, then the loss of much of the North Sea oil revenue to Scotland will make some of the projections in Scotlands prospectus somewhat inaccurate.
This will be worth watching as you say "see how it pans out", it could knack a few of the plans in Mr Salmonds white paper. I wonder if it is NO to the current referendum will the Isles be petitioning the UK instead.
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