Foodbank tatties

[orkneycadian]

Travelling in on the ferry last week, there was a leaflet in the leaflet rack from the new foodbank in Kirkwall inviting donations of food. Amongst the list was "Instant Mashed Potato". They don't appear to want proper tatties.... :roll:

Now, foodbank necessities aside, what kind of message does this send out to the users of foodbanks? That tatties must come out of packets, at great cost, even though you would get more nutrition if you just ate the packaging?

On the Tesco website, a packet of own brand "Smash" costs £1.25 for 176g of powdered sawdust. From Googling the instructions, you would add 880 ml (g) of water to make this up to 1,055g of gloop. So about £1.18 per kg of gloop.

Even Tesco's overpriced ordinary tatties are just 47p per kg. Farm gate price for tatties is about 16p per kg, and you would likely be able to pick up a 25 kg bag "retail" for about 30p per kg.

Foodbanks, and their supporters, could be providing tatties for just 16p per kg, but instead appear to prefer processed stuff at over 7 times the price.

Would it not just be a lot simpler if those in receipt of foodbank vouchers took them to Tescos and got their free provisions there? How inefficient must these buildings be, aside from the 7 times premium on tatties, to have to duplicate all the costs that Tesco has already borne in relation to heat, light, rates, rent, water, etc?

[sids]

You mean you actually peel them with your metal knives?

Clearly a most primitive people.

http://youtu.be/uKt-KR1TsRg

[orkneycadian]

Yes, apparantly this is stage 1 of stripping all the nutrition out, before all the other E numbers get added in to get it turned from tattie into something inorganic.

[RagnarRocks]

Might make a difference if instead of throwing vast tonnages of food into landfill, the supermarkets donated all the,best before and use by food to food banks the vast majority of it is perfectly edible and goes to waste. There would be certain items which couldn't be used or a more caution would need to be applied but on the whole its just a total waste of perfectly good food. Then at least those in need would be getting access to nutritious healthy food.

[orkneycadian]

Even if the food was just distributed at Tesco, or any other local shop. Then there would be ready access to fresh vegetables, rather than the tinned ones that the foodbanks invite donations of.

[Phill]

I think the whole foodbank 'crisis' is just a political football that is completely missing the point of its supposed endeavours.

From news articles and clips on TV, a large part of these 'food' supplies do seem to be processed muck, pop, sugary drinks etc. Easy ready food rather than useful groceries that can be cooked into cheap wholesome meals.

A stack of Onions, Carrots & Tatties will provide the base for the a range of filling meals for those on a budget.

[Mrs Bradey]

I think they will have requested "smash" as it will have a longer, more manageable shelf life then fresh veg. does dried fruit and veg still count as one of your five a day?

[joxville]

I know someone who helps run a foodbank, there are many disabled people using it so I guess a lot of them are unable to peel potatoes or other veg, so though Smash won't have the goodness of a real tattie, it's still edible.

[orkneycadian]

My understanding of foodbank vouchers is that they entitle you to 3 days worth of food. Smash, or even proper tatties would be hard pushed to go off in that time. And the foodbank, storing the food properly, would find that tatties, and as suggested above, carrots, onions, and other things like neeps will store for months.

[orkneycadian]

I know someone who helps run a foodbank, there are many disabled people using it so I guess a lot of them are unable to peel potatoes or other veg, so though Smash won't have the goodness of a real tattie, it's still edible.

I am sure plenty of disabled folk use Tesco's and the other available shops as well, but it doesnt stop them from selling ordinary tatties and veg. Charity can go an awful lot further if you can reduce the cost of the inputs by a factor of 7.

[Phill]

I suppose Smash is more convenient for those on a schedule. They could just munch some dry Smash on their way from the bookies to the pub and then once they've had a pint: Boom, instant fullness!

[orkneycadian]

They would need to be careful. If they munched a whole 176g packet, they would need 880ml of beer to re-hydrate it. "Same again please barman...."

[squidge]

:roll:

To make smash you need to boil a kettle - to cook potatoes you need to boil a pan for 20 minutes or own a microwave or afford an oven and the electric or gas to cook on it. If people cannot afford food they probably cant afford electric or gas, and even if they can then at this time of year it is likely they need the energy to heat their home.

[RagnarRocks]

When I lived in Germany we used to get sheets of ice on the inside walls the kitchen was the warmest room in the place, cooking produces not only nutritious filling food but warmth for the house as well, two for one has to be a bargain. Mind I guess in some people's world that's a bit to simple. Also have you ever eaten processed food for a while its not very healthy.

[squidge]

Yep my house the kitchen is often the warmest room in the house but then I don't really have to worry too much about how much electricity I use to cook the food I like to cook. If I have to choose between heating the babies room and cooking a pan of tatties then I probably would use the smash.

[ducati]

Yep my house the kitchen is often the warmest room in the house but then I don't really have to worry too much about how much electricity I use to cook the food I like to cook. If I have to choose between heating the babies room and cooking a pan of tatties then I probably would use the smash.

Or keep the baby in the kitchen, or not have a baby, or grow veggies, or find someone that grows veggies and ask for some........

[squidge]

Or maybe not have your benefit stopped out of the blue because you didnt attend an Work Programme interview in Nairn when you had already told them you had a Work Programme Interview in Inverness at the same time.

And we still have the same problem if you ask your neighbour for veggies if you dont have the money for the electricity to cook them. not because you havent budgeted but because your money has been stopped.

[Phill]

If baby is wrapped up well, they don't need a hot room.
Too many people now have their homes at the perfect level for breeding bugs and fungi creating a wealth of constantly sick kids.

[squidge]

Who said anything about a "hot" room?

They still cant cook the tatties if they have no money for electricity.

[Bobinovich]

If they have no money for electricity then how are they expected to make the Smash up :confused?

[RagnarRocks]

Well if they have no money for electricity they can't boil the kettle either so that sort of scuppers your argument

[Mrs Bradey]

:roll:To make smash you need to boil a kettle - to cook potatoes you need to boil a pan for 20 minutes or own a microwave or afford an oven and the electric or gas to cook on it. If people cannot afford food they probably cant afford electric or gas, and even if they can then at this time of year it is likely they need the energy to heat their home.yes I've seen people so poor they can't even afford a kettle! I have seen them boiling water in a teaspoon with a cigarette lighter!! ingenious eh!

[squidge]

:) Here is the address for the Foodbanks in Caithness and Orkney why dont you guys pop in and have a look for yourselves what happens there - you could even take a donation :)

Highland foodbank - Thurso
2 Sweyn Road Thurso KW14 7NW

Orkney foodbank
18 Junction Road Kirkwall Orkney KW15 1AB
07719 293 378

[RagnarRocks]

I'm sure you can pick up a second hand microwave pretty cheaply but people seem to have an aversion to second hand nowadays. Everything has to be new the latest most model. And people's lack of ability to budget is a separate issue to cooking healthy meals, especially if there are children concerned. How many people nowadays can actually cook good wholesome food with fresh ingredients. Maybe instead they should be giving them lessons in basic cookery rather than giving them packet mash and processed food, and teaching them to live on a budget. As in heat one room not the whole house. But I guess that will have some screaming its not fair.

[squidge]

Absolutely that is right Ragnar and absolutely that is what should be happening but when you suddenly find that you have no money because your benefit has been stopped what help is that then - given that none of those things happen?

[jax]

If I really had to choose between heating & cooking, cooking wins! I think I'd rather put a big fleecy on to keep warm & boil the pan of spuds than eat processed crap! You can eat really well cheaply if you think about it

[squidge]

Tell you what guys, im up in Thurso on March 6th and in Wick on March 7th, i could try to arrange a meeting with someone from the foodbank so that you can put these questions and issues to the food bank directly. It would probably need to be the Thursday Evening I think but I could try to sort it out. We can put all your concerns to the people running the foodbank directly and maybe try to help to address some of the wider issues which Ragnar raises about budgeting and food management.

Would any nof you like to go along to a meeting like that?

[RagnarRocks]

In the case of your example you would attend the interview in Nairn as requested instead of telling them you've for one in Inverness. Its called doing as you're told it works sometimes and saves confusion in the system. Then your benefits don't get stopped as you're where you're asked to be when asked to be and the problem doesn't arise.

[squidge]

Sorry Ragnar, maybe i didnt make myself clear, you had been told to attend the one in Inverness as well and you had told them these interviews clashed already. The person concerned had their benefit reinstated on appeal but still had to manage without benefit for a period

[RagnarRocks]

[QUOTE=squidge;1071770]Tell you what guys, im up in Thurso on March 6th and in Wick on March 7th, i could try to arrange a meeting with someone from the foodbank so that you can put these questions and issues to the food bank directly. It would probably need to be the Thursday Evening I think but I could try to sort it out. We can put all your concerns to the people running the foodbank directly and maybe try to help to address some of the wider issues which Ragnar raises about budgeting and food management.


As you're aware Squidge as a full time carer for my 80yr old mother and living on £59.75 a week I do have to budget and make sure I cook healthy nutritious food and ensure the house is warm. I keep chickens so I get cheap eggs, vegetable seedlings are already growing, potatoes chitting nicely but the luxury of a jaunt to Thurso to see how people on benefits live is patently ridiculous. BTW dunnet trust sell wood for £3 a bag and they last a long time and keep the house nice and warm.

[jax]

Tell you what guys, im up in Thurso on March 6th and in Wick on March 7th, i could try to arrange a meeting with someone from the foodbank so that you can put these questions and issues to the food bank directly. It would probably need to be the Thursday Evening I think but I could try to sort it out. We can put all your concerns to the people running the foodbank directly and maybe try to help to address some of the wider issues which Ragnar raises about budgeting and food management. Would any nof you like to go along to a meeting like that?I think that is a nice offer of you, unfortunately I couldn't come & reveal my identity?!?! But I do think more nutritious food & some cooking ideas might do the world of good :-)

[Mrs Bradey]

[QUOTE=squidge;1071770]Tell you what guys, im up in Thurso on March 6th and in Wick on March 7th, i could try to arrange a meeting with someone from the foodbank so that you can put these questions and issues to the food bank directly. It would probably need to be the Thursday Evening I think but I could try to sort it out. We can put all your concerns to the people running the foodbank directly and maybe try to help to address some of the wider issues which Ragnar raises about budgeting and food management. As you're aware Squidge as a full time carer for my 80yr old mother and living on £59.75 a week I do have to budget and make sure I cook healthy nutritious food and ensure the house is warm. I keep chickens so I get cheap eggs, vegetable seedlings are already growing, potatoes chitting nicely but the luxury of a jaunt to Thurso to see how people on benefits live is patently ridiculous. BTW dunnet trust sell wood for £3 a bag and they last a long time and keep the house nice and warm.Happy Birthday to your mum! I remember in a post of a few weeks ago you said she was 79 so hence Happy Birthday Ragnars Mum!!!

[RagnarRocks]

I will pass on your regards she's watching country file after a nice roast lamb dinner with fresh veggies and blackberry and apple crumble non out of a packet :0))

[ducati]

I will pass on your regards she's watching country file after a nice roast lamb dinner with fresh veggies and blackberry and apple crumble non out of a packet :0))

Ooh Crumble!, I'll swap you some Rhubarb for some eggs shortly? :D

[RagnarRocks]

Works for me duc

[ducati]

Works for me duc

Blimey! We could have started something here. :lol:

[Mrs Bradey]

Works for me ducwhat's the egg to rhubarb exchange just now?

[Mrs Bradey]

what's the egg to rhubarb exchange just now?egg and rhubarb could be the new Scottish currency !!!

[RagnarRocks]

I quite happily trade eggs for things although to be fair I do have some sizeable rhubarb plants out the back just no fruit yet. In theory by end of year I should have plenty of raspberrys, blackcurrants,blackberries, gooseberrys and strawberrys along with assorted veggies tatties and of course rhubarb :0))

[RagnarRocks]

what's the egg to rhubarb exchange just now?Its negotiable

[ducati]

I quite happily trade eggs for things although to be fair I do have some sizeable rhubarb plants out the back just no fruit yet. In theory by end of year I should have plenty of raspberrys, blackcurrants,blackberries, gooseberrys and strawberrys along with assorted veggies tatties and of course rhubarb :0))

Oh! I'll have some soft fruit and gooseberrys but it will be a bit later.

[squidge]

Well you know Rags thats a real shame - I was aware that you are a carer but I have no idea about your financial situation and as I recall it wasnt about "seeing how people on benefit live" but looking at the issues that people using foodbanks face and how we could help to address some of those issues. You would surely have some really useful insights to pass on and as you guys might even have the start of a wee bartering thing going on then it would be really good to look at ways that the Trussell Trust or others could do to extending that. There are some really good sustainable food projects going on all over the UK - wouldnt it be great to see something interesting going on in Thurso.

There were a few really interesting ones in Todmorden and i think Harpurhey, if I remember rightly.

[RagnarRocks]

See Squidge I live within my means no booze I still afford sky just means I'm frugal and count my pennies ie buy own brand porridge rather than brand names watch the so called deals make sure I buy local veg as its cheap but we eat well house is always warm and trade a few eggs here and there for things which are tradeable. So I'd say with some of your people its not because it can't be done it just requires a bit of effort

[squidge]

And there you have it - some wise words already!

The effort sometimes needs to be backed up with knowledge though and many poeople dont know where to start or have not the confidence to do so. Just think what a difference some of you here might make in just one meeting!!!!Sometimes all it needs is people to share ideas

And jax you could all wear name badges saying "squidge" lol - that might be fun :lol:

[RagnarRocks]

Take packet of seeds read instructions some time later plants grow and voila food doesn't take that much. Mind the digging up here is heavy going

[jax]

And there you have it - some wise words already! The effort sometimes needs to be backed up with knowledge though and many poeople dont know where to start or have not the confidence to do so. Just think what a difference some of you here might make in just one meeting!!!!Sometimes all it needs is people to share ideasAnd jax you could all wear name badges saying "squidge" lol - that might be fun :lol:I don't think I'd get away with impersonating you.....I'm not that jenned up on politics :-!

Wouldn't want to get linched by Raynor or ducati??!! :O

[jax]

Take packet of seeds read instructions some time later plants grow and voila food doesn't take that much. Mind the digging up here is heavy goingKeeps you fit or....get a pig make your own sausage & bacon when its fin digging

[squidge]

I don't think I'd get away with impersonating you.....I'm not that jenned up on politics :-!

Apparently neither am I ;)

[RagnarRocks]

Keeps you fit or....get a pig make your own sausage & bacon when its fin diggingActually the chickens do a great job at getting rid of the weeds shame they don't discriminate between the plants I want to keep and the ones I want rid of :0))

[RagnarRocks]

I don't think I'd get away with impersonating you.....I'm not that jenned up on politics :-!Wouldn't want to get linched by Raynor or ducati??!! :OLynching is so yesterday you really must move with the times Jax :0))

[jax]

Lynching is so yesterday you really must move with the times Jax :0))Not like me to be behind the times lol I like the old ways

[Kevin Milkins]

I remember "Smash" used to be part of the weekly shop because that's what advertising and the media pointed us towards as a nutritious alternative to peeling potatoes and when you consider that I worked in agriculture and had tatties in the garden it speaks volumes for the advertising industry for brain washing us. In later life I find that processed food gives me indigestion and a feeling of not feeling good. I have discussed this with Mrs M and after the Six Nations Rugby have finished I would like to try a week or so eating and drinking only unprocessed food and drink to see how it makes me feel. I will report back.

[Alrock]

I'm sure most who use foodbanks would far prefer fresh... Probably more down to food hygiene regulations, health & safety, nice neat package for ease of handling (gotta fit in a box of a certain size)... etc

[Phill]

Probably just the patronising treatment of some of these do gooders. The great unwashed plebs are not intelligent enough to actually cook potatoes so we'll give them smash and a bit of 'there, there'.
Then they'll go home to their warm large detached houses thinking they've really done their bit for society.

[Mrs Bradey]

Probably just the patronising treatment of some of these do gooders. The great unwashed plebs are not intelligent enough to actually cook potatoes so we'll give them smash and a bit of 'there, there'.Then they'll go home to their warm large detached houses thinking they've really done their bit for society.make them feel good as they park their £50,000 bmw outside church on Sunday!

[Phill]

Bingo!

[jax]

I remember "Smash" used to be part of the weekly shop because that's what advertising and the media pointed us towards as a nutritious alternative to peeling potatoes and when you consider that I worked in agriculture and had tatties in the garden it speaks volumes for the advertising industry for brain washing us. In later life I find that processed food gives me indigestion and a feeling of not feeling good. I have discussed this with Mrs M and after the Six Nations Rugby have finished I would like to try a week or so eating and drinking only unprocessed food and drink to see how it makes me feel. I will report back.Yes I find that I get indigestion from processed food, normally buy a pie or something when I've been out shopping as a snack then totally regret eating it as feel Ill :-( ( don't know how people survive eating such crap and for that reason food banks should supply wholesome food. You can make a pan of soup for very little money with fresh veggies & soup mix if you liked.

[RagnarRocks]

Also processed food is another reason for the obesity crisis loaded with sugar and salt not good for you at all.

[Dadie]

Didn't the PPP and Ormlie Centre offer cooking classes?
Informal type classes on during the day .... to do cooking basics?... healthy cheap meals that are simple to make, stuff, most people could just throw together and make a meal from.
Might have imagined it............but thought they either still do those sort of classes or used to do them.

[orkneycadian]

I'm sure most who use foodbanks would far prefer fresh... Probably more down to food hygiene regulations, health & safety, nice neat package for ease of handling (gotta fit in a box of a certain size)... etc

Then, back to the point above, why not just send them round to Tesco to get all the fresh stuff they need? Tesco seem to have no issue with food hygiene regulations, health and safety etc. Pop round to Tesco, fill the basket with 3 days of nutritious and value for money food, hand over the voucher at the checkout, Bob's your uncle!

[orkneycadian]

:roll:

To make smash you need to boil a kettle - to cook potatoes you need to boil a pan for 20 minutes or own a microwave or afford an oven and the electric or gas to cook on it. If people cannot afford food they probably cant afford electric or gas, and even if they can then at this time of year it is likely they need the energy to heat their home.

There seems to be a presumption here that the Smash is the only thing in the "meal". Would they not be having something with it? Like mince or stew and some kind of vegetables? You would still need to put the cooker on for that, unless the menu de jour is Pot Noodle and Smash.

Steam the tatties (proper ones) in the oven, along with the rest of the veg, and cook the mince / stew / whatever in there too. 1 oven, 3 or more things all cooking together. More energy efficient, as there is much less heat loss from cooking in the oven, as opposed to cooking on a stove top. Just ask anyone with an Aga or a Rayburn. More nutritious to steam your tatties and veg rather than boil them, and infinately better than the "tatties" made up from sawdust.

I take it they don't still do home economics at school?

[Alrock]

Then, back to the point above, why not just send them round to Tesco to get all the fresh stuff they need?

Don't ask me, I have no way of knowing...
You'll have to ask the providers of the service if you want to know why they run things the way they do...

[Southern-Gal]

Anyone having to use the the food bank who sees this thread is going to feel even worse and more embarrassed.
I should think they ask for processed and packaged foods as they do not have fridges to keep fresh foods from going bad. Even though the food is being given it still has to be fit for sale and stored accordingly.

[RagnarRocks]

Makes you wonder how people survived prior to the fridge I guess.

[Thumper]

Don't food banks rely on donations of food? So they can only Hand out what they are given! When your benefits are stopped suddenly because of some glitch,fake report,lost form or whatever then you are glad of any help and any food you can get,yes the healthier the better BUT anything us better than an empty tum x

[Southern-Gal]

Agree with you Thumper.
But from the food banks point of view, they won't want any food that has been donated to be wasted. If it has to be stored for any time at all it will spoil. Imagine the reaction if food banks were dumping donated food? The donations would dry up very quickly and they could be made to pay to get rid of the waste too.
Dried food in packets and tins will be needed so that they can store it indefinitely, not because the users are unwilling to cook.

[pat]

How are food banks monitored?
I know of one person who usually buys at least 5 bottles of wine a week, has sky and all the film and sport channels with broadband and line rental £95 a month, can afford to spend £180 and £100 on lamps, £400 to give son a larger tv in his room and always able to buy those little bits extras but yet gets food from the food bank? Also approaches various charities for handouts - usually gets something.
I personally would be cutting right back on the wine, the telephone and tv charges, definitely would not be spending that kind of money on lamps or replacing a perfectly good tv.
This person works part time (just under full time) but feels as they are working entitled to spend how they want and get topups - is it me or is it this person just does not live in the real world?
I work extremely hard to pay my bills and to have a little set aside for luxuries and emergencies.

[orkneycadian]

Makes you wonder how people survived prior to the fridge I guess.

Tatties must have been genetically different back then. They used to keep from the October "tattie holidays" right through to when the early tatties were available next year in May or June. I guess they have to be kept in fridges these days, and have to be flung out after just 3 days.

[RagnarRocks]

Tatties must have been genetically different back then. They used to keep from the October "tattie holidays" right through to when the early tatties were available next year in May or June. I guess they have to be kept in fridges these days, and have to be flung out after just 3 days.Must be the same for carrots, turnips, cabbages,brussel sprouts, apples etc etc.Supermarkets reduce the price of things a couple of times then throw them in bins and they go to landfill. Because its much better to waste things than give them to food banks who might god forgive them have to deal with throwing something away, much better to give them everything in packets and rely on donations rather than the social conscience of the corporate entities. Funny how these food banks are relatively new appearances and suddenly they have a burgeoning supply of people needing them. Mind it all depends on how you define poverty and need. My feeling is whilst there are genuine cases there must be quite abit of abuse going on. You don't really hear about people dying of starvation in this country. One of the biggest health factors is obesity.

[Mrs Bradey]

Must be the same for carrots, turnips, cabbages,brussel sprouts, apples etc etc.Supermarkets reduce the price of things a couple of times then throw them in bins and they go to landfill. Because its much better to waste things than give them to food banks who might god forgive them have to deal with throwing something away, much better to give them everything in packets and rely on donations rather than the social conscience of the corporate entities. Funny how these food banks are relatively new appearances and suddenly they have a burgeoning supply of people needing them. Mind it all depends on how you define poverty and need. My feeling is whilst there are genuine cases there must be quite abit of abuse going on. You don't really hear about people dying of starvation in this country. One of the biggest health factors is obesity.when Scotland becomes independent food banks will be obsolete, as everyone will be fit, well and in work, poverty will only exist in history and the rUk !

[Big Gaz]

How are food banks monitored?
I know of one person who usually buys at least 5 bottles of wine a week, has sky and all the film and sport channels with broadband and line rental £95 a month, can afford to spend £180 and £100 on lamps, £400 to give son a larger tv in his room and always able to buy those little bits extras but yet gets food from the food bank? Also approaches various charities for handouts - usually gets something.
I personally would be cutting right back on the wine, the telephone and tv charges, definitely would not be spending that kind of money on lamps or replacing a perfectly good tv.
This person works part time (just under full time) but feels as they are working entitled to spend how they want and get topups - is it me or is it this person just does not live in the real world?
I work extremely hard to pay my bills and to have a little set aside for luxuries and emergencies.

Thats one of the govts future plans for benefit claimants. If you have a sky contract, a mobile contract or telephone/internet contract etc,etc then you will be asked how you pay for it. Say its paid for out of benefit money and that same amount will be deducted as it isn't being used for what it should be and you have just clearly shown you don't need that money. Another way to rob the needy !

[Big Gaz]

Thats one of the govts future plans for benefit claimants. If you have a sky contract, a mobile contract or telephone/internet contract etc,etc then you will be asked how you pay for it. Say its paid for out of benefit money and that same amount will be deducted as it isn't being used for what it should be and you have just clearly shown you don't need that money. Another way to rob the needy !

Also in today's paper was an article about a food bank who have been so inundated with people wanting handouts that they have had to close because they ran out of food! beggars belief really!

[jax]

I really do have sympathy for the people needing to use the food Bank genuinely, as for the many takers there is plenty of them in modern society. Posh mobile phones & big tellys, quite trip out & get some free food take take take!

[pat]

Big Gaz
Thanks for your answer - very rarely buy a paper as they arrive too late on the island (if at all), catch the headlines on internet, very rarely watch tv.
So at the moment any person can go to a food bank and say I need food and get it most of the time - that is one way to cut the food bills of the nation!
Food banks should be for the needy but my internet, telephone and tv do not come to 95 a month, the bill for this persons wine is about £120 a month, plus all the extras like a take away once a week, expensive 'wants' and then heads to the food bank and asking charities for handouts as cannot manage, makes me stop giving to charities who hand out my donations willy-nilly.
I have stopped donating to one charity as this person managed to get a lump sum of well over £1000 very recently (5 weeks ago)to help with essentials, happened to see this person shopping after was aware money had been given and the bottles were clinking well in the trolley - my good money being peed up against the wall, discovered this person is now back asking this charity for more help, talk about brass neck and bleeding people dry.
We could all top up our earnings and be living well beyond our means, some people think we have to keep them supplied with an endless supply of whatever they want.
I really do think many many folk manage very well on not much but some folk, as in all walks of life, step well and truly over the line and are like leeches draining the blood and life out of all.

[orkneycadian]

I remember "Smash" used to be part of the weekly shop because that's what advertising and the media pointed us towards as a nutritious alternative to peeling potatoes and when you consider that I worked in agriculture and had tatties in the garden it speaks volumes for the advertising industry for brain washing us.

Good Lord. Some electronic sounding tin martians persuaded you this? I am guessing you will be a Yes voter then?

[orkneycadian]

Also in today's paper was an article about a food bank who have been so inundated with people wanting handouts that they have had to close because they ran out of food! beggars belief really!

I know. Just think how many more people they could have helped (7 times presumably....) if there were 7 times more food in the foodbank. Processed food is damned expensive, so those folk who donate it can only donate a small amount by comparison.

[Kevin Milkins]

Good Lord. Some electronic sounding tin martians persuaded you this? I am guessing you will be a Yes voter then?

In hindsight it does sound outrageous that our shopping habits where dictated by what was thrown at us in the media, (it must work or they wouldn't spend millions doing it). It has taken a lifetime to realise that it is Ok to think for ourselves. I suppose I ought to be ashamed to admit it.

I have not seen anyone from any party that I would trust or vote for so I will not be voting.

[Big Gaz]

The other thing that puzzles me and maybe some of the older Orgers can help here? State pension comes to around £140 a week for a single pensioner i'm told? yet i hear pensioners complaining that they can't live on that? JSA/ESA etc is £71 a week and people have to live off that amount. So what is different in a pensioner's needs compared to a person on JSA when they both have a house to keep and food to put on the table? Also, you don't see people on normal benefits getting a heating allowance every winter. I'm not against pensioners or having a pop but just curious to know something i have no knowledge of.

[neilsermk1]

Take packet of seeds read instructions some time later plants grow and voila food doesn't take that much. Mind the digging up here is heavy going
Good idea Ragnar but not everyone has a garden. Used to be that there were allotments where you could grow a lot of your vegetables. I remember there was a lot of bartering went on at the allotments in Thurso before the council built houses on the land

[RagnarRocks]

Good idea Ragnar but not everyone has a garden. Used to be that there were allotments where you could grow a lot of your vegetables. I remember there was a lot of bartering went on at the allotments in Thurso before the council built houses on the landWas it a Tory council they usually get the blame for trashing social schemes..mind with all the land around here I see no reason to build on allotments

[Alrock]

The other thing that puzzles me and maybe some of the older Orgers can help here? State pension comes to around £140 a week for a single pensioner i'm told? yet i hear pensioners complaining that they can't live on that? JSA/ESA etc is £71 a week and people have to live off that amount. So what is different in a pensioner's needs compared to a person on JSA when they both have a house to keep and food to put on the table? Also, you don't see people on normal benefits getting a heating allowance every winter. I'm not against pensioners or having a pop but just curious to know something i have no knowledge of.

That's always puzzled me also, along with what's the difference between the needs of someone under 25 who only gets £56.80 JSA in comparison to the £71.70 JSA that 25 & overs get....
Even stranger when you consider the fact that it is described as the amount determined that you need to live on, so whoever determines this must know the answer but are just not telling.

[Oddquine]

That's always puzzled me also, along with what's the difference between the needs of someone under 25 who only gets £56.80 JSA in comparison to the £71.70 JSA that 25 & overs get....
Even stranger when you consider the fact that it is described as the amount determined that you need to live on, so whoever determines this must know the answer but are just not telling.

As a pensioner, it has always puzzled me as well!

[Bobinovich]

It's probably nothing to do with what you need to live on tbh. If JS's were being given £140 a week it may be less of an incentive for them to look for work - many minimum wage jobs wouldn't even give that sort of take home pay unless you're working plenty of hours. And pensioners, mostly, will have paid into the pot for much of their working lives, so it may be considered that they've earned their slice back...not forgetting that pensioners also make up a large voting bloc (compared wit JS's) so which party in power is going to be daft enough to propose cutting their income?

[ducati]

Anyone having to use the the food bank who sees this thread is going to feel even worse and more embarrassed.
I should think they ask for processed and packaged foods as they do not have fridges to keep fresh foods from going bad. Even though the food is being given it still has to be fit for sale and stored accordingly.

Oh they wouldn't waste energy on the computer surely?

[Oddquine]

It's probably nothing to do with what you need to live on tbh. If JS's were being given £140 a week it may be less of an incentive for them to look for work - many minimum wage jobs wouldn't even give that sort of take home pay unless you're working plenty of hours. And pensioners, mostly, will have paid into the pot for much of their working lives, so it may be considered that they've earned their slice back...not forgetting that pensioners also make up a large voting bloc (compared wit JS's) so which party in power is going to be daft enough to propose cutting their income?

Not any of them until they see how they get on in 2015 in the UK Election....then pensioner perks are back on the table for "readjusting" or means testing....Tories have said as much...and I'd hazard a guess that what they will do, NuLabour will happily copy if they get in! Never thought it was fair that pensioners were a "special case" tbh while others were getting trashed.

[Ravikaleova]

If they have no money for electricity then how are they expected to make the Smash up :confused?
Sorry! I have no answer of your question.

[Dadie]

http://forum.caithness.org/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Bobinovich http://forum.caithness.org/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?p=1071763#post1071763)
If they have no money for electricity then how are they expected to make the Smash up :confused?

Use the gas ring on the top of the stove, campstove etc...by candlelight or torch.

If they have no money for electricity of any sort there is something far wrong and need to get financial advice and help asap.

[Droopy]

Priorities.

1. Food, Electric and Rent.
2. Clothes and Shoes.
3. Furniture.

121. Sky TV.
122. Alcohol .
123. Drugs.

[Big Gaz]

Priorities.

1. Food, Electric and Rent.
2. Clothes and Shoes.
3. Furniture.

121. Sky TV.
122. Alcohol .
123. Drugs.


With some that i know the priorites are

1. Taxi to pub
2. drink all day
3. £1 burger
4. Taxi home

or

1. Ciggies
2. Bookies all day
3. chips & a coke

They then try to cadge a few quid "to get some electricity" because they are broke through buying drugs, alcohol or betting all their dole money!

Wait til the govt's next benefit cost cutting plan where if you have a mobile phone contract, sky contract or any other "non-necessity" contract then you will be asked where the money comes from to pay for these contracts. As it's obviously paid for from benefit money then that same amount of cash thats paying these contracts will be taken OFF the benefit paid as it will be deemed that as you are paying for these contracts etc etc with benefit money then you obviously don't need the money for yourself

[Oddquine]

With some that i know the priorites are

1. Taxi to pub
2. drink all day
3. £1 burger
4. Taxi home

or

1. Ciggies
2. Bookies all day
3. chips & a coke

They then try to cadge a few quid "to get some electricity" because they are broke through buying drugs, alcohol or betting all their dole money!

Wait til the govt's next benefit cost cutting plan where if you have a mobile phone contract, sky contract or any other "non-necessity" contract then you will be asked where the money comes from to pay for these contracts. As it's obviously paid for from benefit money then that same amount of cash thats paying these contracts will be taken OFF the benefit paid as it will be deemed that as you are paying for these contracts etc etc with benefit money then you obviously don't need the money for yourself

A few years back on here, we had pretty much the same type of anti-welfare because they weren't receiving the benefits themselves posts. One member actually said (and I paraphrase) that "welfare payments weren't meant to pay debts incurred before claiming benefits and if they could afford to pay off debts they were getting too much....and should only be getting food-stamps and not hard cash."

Have to say that in my time posting on this forum, the most vociferous posters have always been "Thatcher's children".....and it appears not much has changed in the intervening years.

[RagnarRocks]

Many people who live on benefits are good on honest people and I'm glad our society provides a safety net for them. I for one have to care for my mother full time due to her poor health, I could of dumped her in a care home and carried on with a highly paid career as my sister wanted but decided having lost my father not long ago, caring for her was for the best. Therefor I'm glad we have a welfare system that provides for us, when the worst comes about then its back to work for me, what does gall me is seeing people who do waste the little money paid on drugs,booze,gambling, this is money paid for by the state ergo the public to assist in times of hardship if there is evidence it's being wasted then why shouldn't that feckless wastage be addressed. Seems some people want to excuse and cosset the worst examples of humanity in their vain attempt to salve their social conscience with other people's money.

[squidge]

And again today

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/food-banks-explosion-we-were-3204631




Times are so tough, volunteers are being forced to supply “kettle boxes” for those no longer able to use a cooker due to soaring energy costs. Instead, they receive instant soup, Pot Noodles, mash and porridge – food which can be prepared by boiling a kettle.


The Trussel Trust said: “A report by Defra this year confirmed this is not about demand fuelled by our service.The numbers being referred have increased since last April’s benefit changes and the introduction of benefit sanctions.”




A review of an independent report by SCVO (http://www.scvo.org.uk/news-campaigns-and-policy/briefings-consultation-responses/independent-review-of-jobseekers-allowance-sanctions/) indicated the following


A 400% increase in sanctions in a very deprived area of South West Glasgow alone.
The impact of sanctions on tenants is affecting the work of Housing Associations; the Scottish Federation of Housing Associations is currently gathering evidence from its members.
During April 2012, over 200 sanctions were applied to claimants every working day
Citizens Advice Bureaux and other third sector organisations give examples of individuals and families left in extreme hardship because of sanctions applied with little or no consideration of personal circumstances and in some cases having wider impact on family and support networks (e.g. sanctions on those with caring responsibilities).
73% of referrals to food banks were related to benefit sanctions and delays.
Poor communication around expectations of claimants and when/why sanctions are applied cause tremendous worry and stress.
There is evidence of “stockpiling” of sanctions – Citizens Advice in Scotland have seen a number of cases where sanctions have been applied retrospectively for issues which occurred up to 14 months previously. This is as a result of the change in law made through the Jobseekers (Back to Work) Act 2013.
Sanctions are being applied for personal circumstances which a claimant cannot change – and which actually create savings for statutory services – for example, kinship and unpaid care situations. Examples are highlighted in the Coalition of Care Providers in Scotland’s response to the Expert Working Group on Welfare. Anecdotally we are aware of unpaid carers moving towards Jobseeker conditionality but with no support for their caring roles to enable them to take up employment. include:



The Tory Think Tank - Policy Exchange - published their review of sanctions recently (you can download it here (http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/publications/category/item/smarter-sanctions-sorting-out-the-system)) They found that nearly 60% of sanctions were overturned on appeal. Do you know that prior to 2010 the rate of decisions overturned on appeal was less than 20%? You can lose your benefit for SIX weeks for being ten minutes late for an appointment - even if that is not you fault - the bus broke down, there was an accident. You can be sanctioned for "withdrawing" from an interview to assess your fitness to work even though the interview was halted because the assessor told you you appeared to be having a heart attack and sent you to hospital.

The appeal process is taking months and if you consider that 60% of all decisions should not have been made in the first place then these people are suffering poverty = they have NO money, anxiety and stress for nothing. It seems that the government is stopping people's money just because they can. So someone held up on a bus journey for ten minutes because of the flooding recently was sanctioned for six weeks, had no money, no electric, no food, is it really any use to that man to know that he can appeal and he is likely to succeed and might get that payment back in 6 months?

Oh and lets not forget the next plan for this lovely government is to charge people to make an appeal against a benefit sanction.

Do none of you think this whole situation is pretty appalling? Really truly do you read these things and think that it is of no consequence or that its their own fault or that somehow these people deserve it? Do you REALLY believe that all these people - 200 people a day are receiving sanctions in Scotland and being left with nothing are wasting the money they have had by spending it on gambling, drugs and booze?

This is not about fecklessness, nor is it about laziness, nor is it about fraud... Its about a political idealogy and people are being damaged in the process - some are even dying in this drive to reduce spending by targetting those least able to help themselves.

[ducati]

And again today

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/food-banks-explosion-we-were-3204631



A review of an independent report by SCVO (http://www.scvo.org.uk/news-campaigns-and-policy/briefings-consultation-responses/independent-review-of-jobseekers-allowance-sanctions/) indicated the following

The Tory Think Tank - Policy Exchange - published their review of sanctions recently (you can download it here (http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/publications/category/item/smarter-sanctions-sorting-out-the-system)) They found that nearly 60% of sanctions were overturned on appeal. Do you know that prior to 2010 the rate of decisions overturned on appeal was less than 20%? You can lose your benefit for SIX weeks for being ten minutes late for an appointment - even if that is not you fault - the bus broke down, there was an accident. You can be sanctioned for "withdrawing" from an interview to assess your fitness to work even though the interview was halted because the assessor told you you appeared to be having a heart attack and sent you to hospital.

The appeal process is taking months and if you consider that 60% of all decisions should not have been made in the first place then these people are suffering poverty = they have NO money, anxiety and stress for nothing. It seems that the government is stopping people's money just because they can. So someone held up on a bus journey for ten minutes because of the flooding recently was sanctioned for six weeks, had no money, no electric, no food, is it really any use to that man to know that he can appeal and he is likely to succeed and might get that payment back in 6 months?

Oh and lets not forget the next plan for this lovely government is to charge people to make an appeal against a benefit sanction.

Do none of you think this whole situation is pretty appalling? Really truly do you read these things and think that it is of no consequence or that its their own fault or that somehow these people deserve it? Do you REALLY believe that all these people - 200 people a day are receiving sanctions in Scotland and being left with nothing are wasting the money they have had by spending it on gambling, drugs and booze?

This is not about fecklessness, nor is it about laziness, nor is it about fraud... Its about a political idealogy and people are being damaged in the process - some are even dying in this drive to reduce spending by targetting those least able to help themselves.

If all this stuff is happening, And I'm not sure I believe you would have benefit stopped for being late to one appt. once. Perhaps if you make a habit of it? It is the fault of the people making the decisions. Not the Government for approving the strategy. These people, working for the types of organisations (private and public) are likely to be socialists and union members. Perhaps your are blaming the wrong people?

[Big Gaz]

If all this stuff is happening, And I'm not sure I believe you would have benefit stopped for being late to one appt. once. Perhaps if you make a habit of it? It is the fault of the people making the decisions. Not the Government for approving the strategy. These people, working for the types of organisations (private and public) are likely to be socialists and union members. Perhaps your are blaming the wrong people?

I can confirm losing a days benefit for turning up late after my car got a puncture. Despite me turning up with filthy hands and offering to go out to the car and bringing in the offending tyre, i was still docked and that was the fist time i had ever been late to sign on. Nobody liked signing on if the "wicked witch" was handling your claim, the slightest excuse gave her reason for sanctioning you. I even got crap off her because i was told to phone 2 employers every week and i phoned one and called in to another when i was passing and was told i was being sanctioned for not doing enough to find a job. Should have seen her face when i told her i had just got a phone call before i was due to sign on, from the company i had called into, offering me a start on the following monday. The joy of telling her where to stick my benefit book was bliss and i was duly escorted off the premises by the security guard (who was laughing too and said good one for me telling her where to stick my benefit book!) :D

[Oddquine]

Many people who live on benefits are good on honest people and I'm glad our society provides a safety net for them. I for one have to care for my mother full time due to her poor health, I could of dumped her in a care home and carried on with a highly paid career as my sister wanted but decided having lost my father not long ago, caring for her was for the best. Therefor I'm glad we have a welfare system that provides for us, when the worst comes about then its back to work for me, what does gall me is seeing people who do waste the little money paid on drugs,booze,gambling, this is money paid for by the state ergo the public to assist in times of hardship if there is evidence it's being wasted then why shouldn't that feckless wastage be addressed. Seems some people want to excuse and cosset the worst examples of humanity in their vain attempt to salve their social conscience with other people's money.

No, RR.......most......as in the majority of people who live on benefits are good honest people. Sure, there are definitely people who take advantage of a badly set up system......just as there are people who "know their rights" or can "afford accountants" and find loopholes in any system where loopholes exist and con men taking advantage of the gullible.

But don't you think it is telling of the Government mindset in the UK today that, to get hold of those who are bilking the benefits system of about £1 billion annually, ten times more people are employed in targeting them than are employed in targeting the big businesses and the wealthy who use accountants to take advantage of the loopholes in the taxation system to the tune of about £30 billion in taxes "lost" to the Treasury every year?

And don't you think it is telling of the somewhat irrational pious attitude of those who read the MSM, particularly the gossip-laden red-tops, that they read about one chancer who found a loophole.....and from that individual extrapolate that everyone on benefits is a chancer.......except themselves, of course..and then daemonise them on forums like this? Funnily enough, there is much less ire produced at global companies/big businesses/highly paid celebrities who pay next to no tax at all.

The system itself allows registered alcoholics/drug addicts to claim in order to maintain their habits...and you may well disagree with that, as I do.....however, do you know which of those people you see, who drink and drug, are registered addicts......and which are feckless wasters of benefit receipts? It would be great if everyone were as honest as me and you.....but it would be even greater if our highly paid legislators could, just once in a while, come up with some method of abstracting and disbursing money from and to the various members of society which was carefully thought through. Unfortunately, joined up thinking and Westminster are not compatible....and that isn't the fault of those being subjected to faulty legislation.

It is much, much easier for Westminster to encourage the MSM induced condemnation of "benefits scroungers/cheats", by chasing them down via HMRC, DWP, ATOS etc and removing their income altogether, knowing they are people who are easy to trash, and don't really matter in the great scheme of things to those who have been so thoroughly brainwashed by the media.........because that allows them to continue with impunity to turn a blind eye to the high end manipulation of the taxation system by the businesses they hope will employ them when their political career ends....... in the knowledge that the bulk of the population will be so busy railing over the small stuff they have been convinced harms them somehow...to notice what our legislators are doing as they get on happily with schmoozing the big stuff to their own personal advantage.

[RagnarRocks]

I can confirm losing a days benefit for turning up late after my car got a puncture. Despite me turning up with filthy hands and offering to go out to the car and bringing in the offending tyre, i was still docked and that was the fist time i had ever been late to sign on. Nobody liked signing on if the "wicked witch" was handling your claim, the slightest excuse gave her reason for sanctioning you. I even got crap off her because i was told to phone 2 employers every week and i phoned one and called in to another when i was passing and was told i was being sanctioned for not doing enough to find a job. Should have seen her face when i told her i had just got a phone call before i was due to sign on, from the company i had called into, offering me a start on the following monday. The joy of telling her where to stick my benefit book was bliss and i was duly escorted off the premises by the security guard (who was laughing too and said good one for me telling her where to stick my benefit book!) :DAh you've got to love bureaucrats who get a wee bit of power then let it go to their heads and wield it like the big stick, shame most of them are devoid of a bit of common sense most of the ones I've met are very much of one political persuasion.

[ducati]

I can confirm losing a days benefit for turning up late after my car got a puncture. Despite me turning up with filthy hands and offering to go out to the car and bringing in the offending tyre, i was still docked and that was the fist time i had ever been late to sign on. Nobody liked signing on if the "wicked witch" was handling your claim, the slightest excuse gave her reason for sanctioning you. I even got crap off her because i was told to phone 2 employers every week and i phoned one and called in to another when i was passing and was told i was being sanctioned for not doing enough to find a job. Should have seen her face when i told her i had just got a phone call before i was due to sign on, from the company i had called into, offering me a start on the following monday. The joy of telling her where to stick my benefit book was bliss and i was duly escorted off the premises by the security guard (who was laughing too and said good one for me telling her where to stick my benefit book!) :D

And what was her backround? Do you think she was a Tory? :mad:

[RagnarRocks]

[QUOTE=Oddquine;1073292]No, RR.......most......as in the majority of people who live on benefits are good honest people. Sure, there are definitely people who take advantage of a badly set up system...



Just for the record I am a fully grown adult and in complete control of my mental faculties so I'd be happy if you didn't try and correct my statements in future if I say many, I don't mean most. I'm fully aware of your personal preferences politically and how you think the nanny state should do everything for everybody but that doesn't include rewriting what I've posted.

[RagnarRocks]

And again todayhttp://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/food-banks-explosion-we-were-3204631A review of an independent report by SCVO (http://www.scvo.org.uk/news-campaigns-and-policy/briefings-consultation-responses/independent-review-of-jobseekers-allowance-sanctions/) indicated the following The Tory Think Tank - Policy Exchange - published their review of sanctions recently (you can download it here (http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/publications/category/item/smarter-sanctions-sorting-out-the-system)) They found that nearly 60% of sanctions were overturned on appeal. Do you know that prior to 2010 the rate of decisions overturned on appeal was less than 20%? You can lose your benefit for SIX weeks for being ten minutes late for an appointment - even if that is not you fault - the bus broke down, there was an accident. You can be sanctioned for "withdrawing" from an interview to assess your fitness to work even though the interview was halted because the assessor told you you appeared to be having a heart attack and sent you to hospital. The appeal process is taking months and if you consider that 60% of all decisions should not have been made in the first place then these people are suffering poverty = they have NO money, anxiety and stress for nothing. It seems that the government is stopping people's money just because they can. So someone held up on a bus journey for ten minutes because of the flooding recently was sanctioned for six weeks, had no money, no electric, no food, is it really any use to that man to know that he can appeal and he is likely to succeed and might get that payment back in 6 months? Oh and lets not forget the next plan for this lovely government is to charge people to make an appeal against a benefit sanction. Do none of you think this whole situation is pretty appalling? Really truly do you read these things and think that it is of no consequence or that its their own fault or that somehow these people deserve it? Do you REALLY believe that all these people - 200 people a day are receiving sanctions in Scotland and being left with nothing are wasting the money they have had by spending it on gambling, drugs and booze?This is not about fecklessness, nor is it about laziness, nor is it about fraud... Its about a political idealogy and people are being damaged in the process - some are even dying in this drive to reduce spending by targetting those least able to help themselves.I sincerely hope you're enjoying your time off work :0))

[Big Gaz]

And what was her backround? Do you think she was a Tory? :mad:

how the hell would i know her background? and i couldn't give two hoots if she was Maggie Thatcher herself! she was one evil woman, that i can say!!

[Phill]

But don't you think it is telling of the Government mindset in the UK today that, to get hold of those who are bilking the benefits system of about £1 billion annually, ten times more people are employed in targeting them than are employed in targeting the big businesses and the wealthy who use accountants to take advantage of the loopholes in the taxation system to the tune of about £30 billion in taxes "lost" to the Treasury every year?

It's also worth actually looking into these sound bites a bit more closely too. This magic figure on the billions lost to the Treasury, seems to have steadily increased from about 16bn to now 30bn. Where does this figure come from? Who makes it up?

If there is a loophole in the system, and the system allows it, there is no one to target but the system.
I quite agree that many corporations are playing the system, but, a lot of that is a system regulated by the EU. Did you vote for Van Pimpy BTW?

[squidge]

I sincerely hope you're enjoying your time off work :0)).

You cant help yourself can you!

If you would like to send me a pm i will provide you with the email of my boss and you can raise issues around my time keeping and productivity with her directly.

[RagnarRocks]

. You cant help yourself can you!If you would like to send me a pm i will provide you with the email of my boss and you can raise issues around my time keeping and productivity with her directly.My, my you are tetchy you assured me you where on a day off last time so I naturally assumed you where having more time off as you made such a big deal that you never go on forums whilst at work. I'd never dream of calling you a hypocrite so assumed as you'd posted yesterday and today during the hours you claimed to be working that you are having some time off and wished you well with it. One can't even be polite without you taking offence. I'm glad I'm not in your sphere of the caring sharing society seems awfully fraught with unwritten rules that you take offence at whim.

[squidge]

Are you taking notes rags. You are just being a bit weirdly stalkerish. I wasn't working yesterday... Day off. Today I WAS working but you know what? I had a break during my 8am to 4pm shift... Isn't that just shocking? I thought this wasn't about me honey. Although you seem to insist on making it so. I have offered you an outlet for your concerns, now please leave me alone cos it's just a bit weird this.

[Phill]

Can you two get a room!

[RagnarRocks]

Are you taking notes rags. You are just being a bit weirdly stalkerish. I wasn't working yesterday... Day off. Today I WAS working but you know what? I had a break during my 8am to 4pm shift... Isn't that just shocking? I thought this wasn't about me honey. Although you seem to insist on making it so. I have offered you an outlet for your concerns, now please leave me alone cos it's just a bit weird this. your paranoia is showing itself I can't be bothered monitoring your time the only unease is that which you visit upon yourself by your constant posturing and no more pms please. I won't wish you enjoying time off in future my apologies for showing a modicum of civility to you.
Easily dealt with you're now on the of ignore list.

[squidge]

Is that your response to my perfectly polite pm, explaining how your recent posts have made me feel, saying that I am sure that wasn't your intention and asking you pleasantly and politely to please stop because it's making me feel uncomfortable then thank you. I am happy to accept your assurances that you were not intentionally trying to make me feel under scrutiny or to suggest that I was dishonest or lying and I am sorry if you have felt unfairly treated by me. Hopefully we can return to the issues in hand and give everyone a rest

[Alrock]

Nobody liked signing on if the "wicked witch" was handling your claim....

Do the initials LL mean anything here?

[Southern-Gal]

Heard on the radio today that a lot of people in Scotland are walking miles to get to the food banks as they have no choice. And that they are really in trouble financially.
Did anyone think that for someone carrying the food miles home that the Smash type potatoes would be a lot easier to carry?

[Phill]

They could save the walk and ask for the smash to be posted.

[RagnarRocks]

Can't say I've ever seen anyone trudging miles with bags of shopping since being up here. The media always love to make a story sound worse than it actually is, also the food banks rely on the generosity of the public so make it worse than it actually is. Mind with 56000 using food banks now that's nearly as many people as there are Gaelic speakers maybe on the top of each road sign they should put directions to the food banks.

[Big Gaz]

Do the initials LL mean anything here?

nope sorry Alrock, This was in a jobcentre in England when i lived there.

[Alrock]

nope sorry Alrock, This was in a jobcentre in England when i lived there.


Oh well... Guess you get them everywhere.

[Mrs Bradey]

Mind with 56000 using food banks now that's nearly as many people as there are Gaelic speakers maybe on the top of each road sign they should put directions to the food banks.that's exactly (almost) what I said to Mr bradey tonight when I saw it on the news!

[squidge]

If all this stuff is happening, And I'm not sure I believe you would have benefit stopped for being late to one appt. once. Perhaps if you make a habit of it? It is the fault of the people making the decisions. Not the Government for approving the strategy. These people, working for the types of organisations (private and public) are likely to be socialists and union members. Perhaps your are blaming the wrong people?

All this stuff IS happening ducati.... It seems far fetched I know but it is true. The rules say this


Low level sanctions apply when a claimant fails to comply with a requirement that was designed to improve their chances of finding work or preparing for work, for example failing to attend an adviser interview at the Jobcentre.

The sanction periods are the following fixed periods set out below:
• 4 weeks for a first failure;
• 12 weeks for a second failure committed within 52 weeks of the previous failure There are a range of other sanctions too.

But if your bus breaks down and you are too late for your interview, if you dont get the letter inviting you for an interview, or if you "forget" then you will lose your benefit for 4 weeks for a first failure. Do it again or have another transport mishap and that's thirteen weeks without any money. The rules provide for Common sense to be used when making a referral but the truth is that staff are under pressure to impose sanctions. The number of appeals which result in the orignal decsion being overturned is evidence is that people are being sanctioned unfairly and inappropriately. The fact that this is evident throughout the UK is an indicatiopn that the driver for this is policy and not about interpreting the rules wrongly - if that was the case then it would be patchy, isolated and random when you looked at the evidence but it isnt. Ian duncan-Smith has said in parliament that there are no targets for Sanctions - that is not true. I know from speaking to some jobcentre managers - not anywhere in Highland - I hasten to add - that they are required to phone their District Manager every week to discuss the number of Benefit Sanctions their staff have imposed. This is because their offices are not imposing enough sanctions.

A "whistleblower" told the guardian last December that
on one occasion the entire staff at a job centre were warned they would be disciplined unless they increased the number of claimants coming off the register, or raised the number threatened with the loss of their benefit entitlement.....They say to you that not enough people are coming off the claimant register and that if you do not get more people off the register you may be subject to an internal disciplinary assessment – a personal improvement plan.If you ask managers how many people you are supposed to get off the register, they say more and more continuously. It is your job to make the claimant's life difficult, they say. It creates a target culture."

The complainant wishes to remain anonymous, saying they were made ill by the strain of seeking to complain, the whistleblower said: "I tried to raise these matters on many occasions both face-to-face and in writing with management, but each time I was rebuffed and my concerns ignored.


Again if this was an isolated incident then you would expect stories like this to be few and far between but they are not. Many staff are worried about their jobs. To blame staff for the effects we are seeing on people is wrong they qappear to be under threat of losing their jobs if they fail to reach these targets.

Just imagine how different it would be if the targets set and pursued to rigorously were those of getting people into work. That could make a huge difference.

[squidge]

Its worth taking a look at this http://www.bbc.co.uk/democracylive/scotland-26432858 this is the Welfare Reform Committee. If you are skipping then watch Dennis Curran from 7 minutes and then 46 minutes and 17 minutesish for the Trussell Trust spokesman.

Dennis Curran " people come to us and they are broken.... [we need to]get to the heart of the matter and the heart of the matter is people are starving... we are living in a 21st Century society and we have 1930 values cos you need a voucher to go to a foodbank"

Watch it - its really interesting

[ducati]

All this stuff IS happening ducati.... It seems far fetched I know but it is true. The rules say this

There are a range of other sanctions too.

But if your bus breaks down and you are too late for your interview, if you dont get the letter inviting you for an interview, or if you "forget" then you will lose your benefit for 4 weeks for a first failure. Do it again or have another transport mishap and that's thirteen weeks without any money. The rules provide for Common sense to be used when making a referral but the truth is that staff are under pressure to impose sanctions. The number of appeals which result in the orignal decsion being overturned is evidence is that people are being sanctioned unfairly and inappropriately. The fact that this is evident throughout the UK is an indicatiopn that the driver for this is policy and not about interpreting the rules wrongly - if that was the case then it would be patchy, isolated and random when you looked at the evidence but it isnt. Ian duncan-Smith has said in parliament that there are no targets for Sanctions - that is not true. I know from speaking to some jobcentre managers - not anywhere in Highland - I hasten to add - that they are required to phone their District Manager every week to discuss the number of Benefit Sanctions their staff have imposed. This is because their offices are not imposing enough sanctions.

A "whistleblower" told the guardian last December that

Again if this was an isolated incident then you would expect stories like this to be few and far between but they are not. Many staff are worried about their jobs. To blame staff for the effects we are seeing on people is wrong they qappear to be under threat of losing their jobs if they fail to reach these targets.

Just imagine how different it would be if the targets set and pursued to rigorously were those of getting people into work. That could make a huge difference.

Where are the unions? Why is there not a deluge of unfair dismissal claims?

[RagnarRocks]

Where are the unions? Why is there not a deluge of unfair dismissal claims?As per usual with her posts its anonymous sources doing the usual smear on anything that doesn't suit their cause. Socialists like her enjoy one thing getting paranoid and trying to suppress others freedoms in their search for a utopian society.Maybe just maybe she can't grasp that Job seekers allowance is paid for seeking a job,lord help us these people should be required to actually look for work. The fact that so many people seem to be late or missing appointments shows how widespread the problem is that action has had to be taken. As for forgetting an appointment that's almost laughable.

[squidge]

Where are the unions? Why is there not a deluge of unfair dismissal claims?Unions do not have the power or the membership they once had, even the PCS is nowhere near as influential as it once was. RR is right much of the information is anonymous but you know, staff in any government department, whether it is DWP or any other have to follow policy and procedure. The government make the policy and they are responsible for the procedures. It is wrong to blame Mrs Smith sitting in a jobcentre for the levels of poverty.

This financial year alone 56 000 people in Scotland have had to use food banks. You cannot just pop into a food bank, you have to be referred. In East Kilbride, that man on the welfare reform committee said, people see a social worker for a referral and then have to walk 4 miles for their food packages. Hungry because many of them have been struggling for a while on minimum levels of food; cold because it's march in Scotland and you are always colder when you are hungry. Like the man says, people get to them and they are broken - mentally.

We can mutter about DWP tribunal rates and we can rummage about looking for sickness rates but let's remember that in Scotland - our country - since April, more than 56,000 households did not have enough to eat.

You can't get away from those figures, you can't say that all those people, lied, were wasters, lazy, feckless, spendthrift: that they were all alcoholics, drug addicts or criminals..... Well you can I suppose, just like you can say they should all plant their own tatties and they would be fine as we tuck Into our breakfasts, our lunches and our dinners but how much of an ignorant, compassionless isolationist do you need to be to believe all those things.

These are people. Real people with no food. Do we really think this is the best we can be as a society?

[Southern-Gal]

There will be a few who are taking advantage no doubt but the majority of people entitled to food from the food bank will be justified. It does not seem to be as simple as turning up and holding out your hands. For me to have to ask I think I would be in a really desperate state. To be in such dire straits then to see your plight ridiculed publicly could just be the last straw for some. Personally I feel pity for those who cannot empathise or show some tolerance.

[ducati]

As per usual with her posts its anonymous sources doing the usual smear on anything that doesn't suit their cause. Socialists like her enjoy one thing getting paranoid and trying to suppress others freedoms in their search for a utopian society.Maybe just maybe she can't grasp that Job seekers allowance is paid for seeking a job,lord help us these people should be required to actually look for work. The fact that so many people seem to be late or missing appointments shows how widespread the problem is that action has had to be taken. As for forgetting an appointment that's almost laughable.

That's what I was thinking. You aren't supposed to have anything more important to do. I used travel hundreds of miles for appointments and was able to get there on time. If it was me, and my money depended on it, I would get there on time.

But on the other points, are the Job Centre staff so heartless they can send people away knowing they will starve? I could not do that and I am supposed to be a 'nasty'. I'm sorry, if Squidge on the one hand is saying Scots are starving and the other, we are so wealthy we don't need to worry about seperating from the UK, something doesn't add up.

[RagnarRocks]

I went for a series of interviews before Christmas required me driving to Glasgow and Edinburgh on two separate occasions with associated costs as both interviews lasted all day, I found the money to do it and made sure I was there on time for both even though both started early in the morning. As for benefits staff I've had to visit these establishments a couple of times they like to sit there shuffling files, chatting to each other whilst you sit patiently and wait then you have the questions. I went in one afternoon to ask a simple question they where all sitting around chatting and told me to come back with an appointment. So I'd say from my very limited experience of these establishments they seem poorly run and disorganised. I'm supposed to be right wing but I'd never send someone home without money to live and I'm sure even George Osborne and Mr Cameron wouldn't so I tend to feel that maybe some of the staff are to engrossed with scoring petty political points than the genuine welfare of the people they are supposed be helping. It's quite widely circulated within the press how heavily politicised much of the civil service and government agencies have become over the last two decades.

[golach]

These are people. Real people with no food. Do we really think this is the best we can be as a society?

How many of these "Real" people are going to the food banks with a packet of cigarettes in their pockets and mobile phones in their hands? To me these things are luxuries and if I was starving those would be among the first things I would get rid of.

[squidge]

You are absolutely right to say it isnt the fault of the person sitting on the front line in a jobcentre and I can see why you would get confused Ducati between the two issues. This issue does affect the whole of the Uk. Unfortunately, Scottish voters make no differnce to the results in the rest of the UK we do however have the opportunity to do something about it here in Scotland and to show an alternative route for a rich and prosperous nation.

Its about priorities The people on benefit and the people using food banks are only a priority for savings within the UK. If Scotland was Independent then we could choose our own priorities and our make our own choices about where to target the spending cuts. There is evidence that Scotland would make different choices - partly because of our different political profile but also because we could choose spending and saving priorities that are focused on what Scotland needs.

60% percent of Scotland's MPs oppose trident but we still have it,
72% of Scottish MPs voted against the introduction of this and yet we have it.
81% of Scottish MPs voted against Welfare cuts and yet we get welfare cuts
82% voted against VAT rises but We got them anyway

It makes no difference what our MPs choose in Westminster for Scotland - They will be outvoted wherever those choices are at odds with the political ideology of Westminster Governments.

In an independent Scotland we have the CHOICE to do something different and that is a huge opportunity both for us and the rest of the UK.

[squidge]

How many of these "Real" people are going to the food banks with a packet of cigarettes in their pockets and mobile phones in their hands? To me these things are luxuries and if I was starving those would be among the first things I would get rid of.

There is evidence that the trip to a foodbank is absolutely the last resort Golach. the evidence seems to show that ALL other avenues have been explored because it is such a devastating and embarrassing thing to do to go to a foodbank. Mobile phones ARE a necessity especially if you are on benefits because you have tobe able to be contacted about work and a mobile phone is cheaper than a landline and can receive calls without credit.

It might be worth you popping to your local food bank to ask them about this.

[Big Gaz]

There is evidence that the trip to a foodbank is absolutely the last resort Golach. the evidence seems to show that ALL other avenues have been explored because it is such a devastating and embarrassing thing to do to go to a foodbank. Mobile phones ARE a necessity especially if you are on benefits because you have tobe able to be contacted about work and a mobile phone is cheaper than a landline and can receive calls without credit.

It might be worth you popping to your local food bank to ask them about this.

Mobile phones aren't a necessity and certainly not required by the jobcentre in order to claim benefits. Although it was required that you phone 2 prospective employers a week, how do you do that with no mobile and the ever decreasing public call box? so now it is contact, not phone. If you can't afford one, don't want one or don't want to use one, this doesn't ban you from receiving benefits. You can go into the JC and use their phone until they get pissed off with you and send you to the Surestart people to annoy them instead. There are still such things as a stamp, envelope and letter that the JC seem so keen on not using. Likewise with the internet, they are pushing people to start a claim on the internet. so what if you don't have access to or cannot afford the net? you going to go without benefits then? IDS and his not-so-merry bunch are pushing through changes that makes it easier for them, not easier for the claimant and if you don't fall in line, you get punished.

[RagnarRocks]

One thing that has amazed me when you do visit the offices the mount of people who hang around outside smoking. Also and this is more to the younger people who sport all manner of piercings and tattoos, I'm sure they don't come free but I've seen a number with fresh tattoos which must cost money.

[squidge]

In one case a man told a CAS adviser he had no money for food, gas or electricity. However, he was still sanctioned after he failed to keep his mobile phone topped up and could not apply for work. Seems like it IS a necessity (http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/hundreds-of-benefit-claimants-are-fined-each-day.23230201) in some places

Big Gaz you are right Mobil phones Arent a requirement but they ARE a necessity for many - for jobsearch, for contact for parents with children at school, for hearing from employers, for accessing the internet.... you dont actually have to have credit on them to be able to make use of them. But like I say -ask the foodbanks or the trussell trust or the CAB they know miles more about it than me

[Mrs Bradey]

How many of these "Real" people are going to the food banks with a packet of cigarettes in their pockets and mobile phones in their hands? To me these things are luxuries and if I was starving those would be among the first things I would get rid of.and calling in on their drug dealer on the way back

[Big Gaz]

and calling in on their drug dealer on the way back

That's too much work. last time i used the Wick office i saw a well-known dealer plying his trade outside the shop in Girnigoe st

[ducati]

You are absolutely right to say it isnt the fault of the person sitting on the front line in a jobcentre and I can see why you would get confused Ducati between the two issues. This issue does affect the whole of the Uk. Unfortunately, Scottish voters make no differnce to the results in the rest of the UK we do however have the opportunity to do something about it here in Scotland and to show an alternative route for a rich and prosperous nation.

Its about priorities The people on benefit and the people using food banks are only a priority for savings within the UK. If Scotland was Independent then we could choose our own priorities and our make our own choices about where to target the spending cuts. There is evidence that Scotland would make different choices - partly because of our different political profile but also because we could choose spending and saving priorities that are focused on what Scotland needs.

60% percent of Scotland's MPs oppose trident but we still have it,
72% of Scottish MPs voted against the introduction of this and yet we have it.
81% of Scottish MPs voted against Welfare cuts and yet we get welfare cuts
82% voted against VAT rises but We got them anyway

It makes no difference what our MPs choose in Westminster for Scotland - They will be outvoted wherever those choices are at odds with the political ideology of Westminster Governments.

In an independent Scotland we have the CHOICE to do something different and that is a huge opportunity both for us and the rest of the UK.

I'm saying it is the fault of the people sitting on the front line in the job centres.

And I do want to keep Trident, we are watching on the news everyday what happens to countries that don't have a credible ,independent deterent.

[squidge]

Then we disagree Ducati and you know what ..... thats ok.. and do you know what else? Im GLAD we disagree life would be awful boring if everyone thought the same.:)

Is it not a nice day for a Blast? It is here - have a husband like a caged lion cos his beloved bike is off the road.....:confused

[Whatever]

I've met quite few people who work in job centres, local government, social services and charities they all seem the same type to me bossy people who think they know it all and get all upset when you try say there's a different view on life. The reason probably don't receive their benefits is because the people who work in the job centres have taken a partisan view on who gets paid.

[rob murray]

and calling in on their drug dealer on the way back

What an absolutely idiotic remark.....and you would know eh...I rather suspect that you are a dealer, a dealer that deals in crap !! Stick to corrie and eastenders eh and do us all a favour.

[Southern-Gal]

http://www.scriptonitedaily.com/2014/03/05/rich-going-on-poverty-safari-in-poor-areas-of-uk-to-watch-poor-people-live-like-animals/



Are we guilty of the above?

[orkneycadian]

Not necessarily. I started off the thread wondering why the local foodbank doesn't want to accept locally produced, wholesome, cheap, filling and nutritious food. Instead, they would rather accept "foreign", manufactured, expensive food of questionable nutritional value. Its mildly ironic that those getting their Smash from the foodbank also have the time on their hands to grow their own food, but I do accept that that takes a while to plan, and foodbanks are supposed to be there for folk that suddenly find themselves in need.

[squidge]

The link that I posted for the committee meeting at holyrood does in life some discussion around how the providers of good can include fresh and local food. I can't remember where abouts in the recording it is but you might be interested to get a look to see what is being done Orkneycadian :)

[Southern-Gal]

Not necessarily. I started off the thread wondering why the local foodbank doesn't want to accept locally produced, wholesome, cheap, filling and nutritious food. Instead, they would rather accept "foreign", manufactured, expensive food of questionable nutritional value. Its mildly ironic that those getting their Smash from the foodbank also have the time on their hands to grow their own food, but I do accept that that takes a while to plan, and foodbanks are supposed to be there for folk that suddenly find themselves in need.

Did not mean the topic, its a fair enough question.
I was meaning some of the below the belt digs at anyone who need to use the food bank :)

[orkneycadian]

I don't think they are all digs - More concerns about why people feel they need to use them, when they have so much other disposable income.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/10/25/food-banks-myths_n_4161759.html
(http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/10/25/food-banks-myths_n_4161759.html)
seems to suggest that even the Trussell Trust promote non-perishable foods that will last. Isn't this supposed to be a 3 day "emergency box"? Why would it need to last more than 3 days?

It also suggests that 50% of children in child poverty in this country are from working households. But what is that definition of poverty?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24384814 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24384814)

suggests that mobile ownership is actually falling amongst the 5 to 15 year olds from 49% in 2012 to 43% in 2013. As a result of poverty? No - As a result of them swapping their mobile phones for tablets. And not the kind to ease their ailments from living below the breadline.

If modern day relative child poverty means that you can't afford the latest tablet like 60% of your mates, then perhaps we need to redefine the meaning of "relative poverty" and also redefine priorities.

So no, I don't think some of the above posts are below the belt. They express genuine concern over the lack of some peoples ability to prioritise their spending, and their belief that someone will always be there to plug the gaps in their family budgets, irrespective of how they choose to spend their money.

Meanwhile, the likes of the Trussell Trust need to give themselves a shake and reconsider what help they actually accept, and pass on. Orkney is not renowned for its Smash factories. But there are plenty folk grow tatties on a (admittedly small these days) commercial scale. The pictures on the link above show a food bank stuffed to the ceiling with tinned produce, bags of rice, fajita kits and the likes. All things that you cannot prepare by pouring a kettle of water into it. If someone can boil a pan of long-grain rice, they can boil a pan of tatties. Whilst its been a wet winter over here, and we do have a few paddy fields, we haven't quite yet ramped up our rice production. ;)

[Oddquine]

I don't think they are all digs - More concerns about why people feel they need to use them, when they have so much other disposable income.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/10/25/food-banks-myths_n_4161759.html
(http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/10/25/food-banks-myths_n_4161759.html)
seems to suggest that even the Trussell Trust promote non-perishable foods that will last. Isn't this supposed to be a 3 day "emergency box"? Why would it need to last more than 3 days?

It also suggests that 50% of children in child poverty in this country are from working households. But what is that definition of poverty?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24384814 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24384814)

suggests that mobile ownership is actually falling amongst the 5 to 15 year olds from 49% in 2012 to 43% in 2013. As a result of poverty? No - As a result of them swapping their mobile phones for tablets. And not the kind to ease their ailments from living below the breadline.

If modern day relative child poverty means that you can't afford the latest tablet like 60% of your mates, then perhaps we need to redefine the meaning of "relative poverty" and also redefine priorities.

So no, I don't think some of the above posts are below the belt. They express genuine concern over the lack of some peoples ability to prioritise their spending, and their belief that someone will always be there to plug the gaps in their family budgets, irrespective of how they choose to spend their money.

Meanwhile, the likes of the Trussell Trust need to give themselves a shake and reconsider what help they actually accept, and pass on. Orkney is not renowned for its Smash factories. But there are plenty folk grow tatties on a (admittedly small these days) commercial scale. The pictures on the link above show a food bank stuffed to the ceiling with tinned produce, bags of rice, fajita kits and the likes. All things that you cannot prepare by pouring a kettle of water into it. If someone can boil a pan of long-grain rice, they can boil a pan of tatties. Whilst its been a wet winter over here, and we do have a few paddy fields, we haven't quite yet ramped up our rice production. ;)


We didn't rise up en masse and say to Governments that we have decided this is a free market, home owning, consumer society in which our sole purpose in life is to keep up with the Jones'...it was Governments which did that, in order to increase tax take from VAT on spending and taxes on the profits of (some) businesses. We didn't say that poverty should be defined as "poor compared with those who have spare cash, after making their essential payments, to buy the latest unnecessary gadget as soon as it comes on the market"....the government did that by defining a ball-park figure for "relative poverty" which was too high....and introducing benefits to try and ease the individual nearer to what was defined as the norm (and it was only a very accidental by-product of those benefits that they also enabled employers to pay crap wages in order to maintain/increase their profits, of course!:roll:).

However, what the "I'm all right, Jacks" tend only to see is the mobile phones and sky dishes etc.....and not the struggle there is behind closed doors to pay contracts in order not to have to pay penalties for cancelling them and to pay rent/mortgage, council tax, utility bills etc. Those of us who have been there in the past, because of sudden and catastrophic changes in circumstances, can understand.....and DWP sanctions, or unemployment, in a situation in which someone is already struggling to make ends meet, is a sudden and catastrophic change in circumstances...as is an unexpected bill on a low income.

We are harking back to Victorian times (fulfilling Thatcher's ambition), relying on charity in the early 21st Century, because we have a Government full of "I'm all right, Jack" millionaires and MPs who simply don't understand what it is like to live on less than £65K a year, plus expenses, and don't have to worry about getting their pensions or the possibility of being made redundant before completing the redundancy qualification period. Nobody in Parliament has had to live on a part-time job on minimum wage, or a zero-hour contract job....with the addition of benefits, which are then removed/reduced/capped so the rich can get tax cuts. As a result, we no longer just have the "under-class" of the unemployed, the sick and the disabled to be penalised for the fraudulence of bankers and pay for the perks of the rich.....the working poor are in this as well now..and it is sickening to see the same Daily Mail type blanket assumptions being made on here on the subject of food banks as have been made about the unemployed, the disabled, immigrants etc in other threads.

Re the non-perishable items within date as opposed to fresh food, that would most likely be because a large proportion of foodstuffs are collected at places outwith the main foodbank outlet, and are not necessarily transmitted to the main holding area daily.I would also suspect that it costs a fair bit to install and run fridges etc to keep fresh food for longer. Fresh food would be more useful to food banks which also incorporate soup kitchens and/or cafe style set-ups where they will be used pretty much on receipt.

I used to feel upset, and donate, when there were collections for local charities which rescued animals to help feed them....now I am horrified to see, in place of collections to feed the animals we neglect, collections to feed the people our Government unfortunately doesn't neglect, but specifically targets.

Such a pity we are becoming America-lite by importing all the worst aspects of American life.

[sonofagun]

What surprises me more than anything, is the tolerance of so many people who are unemployed or sick and for no particulier reason whatsoever have had their benefits suspended by this Government, they use this method to massage the unemployment figures and these unfortunate people are used as cannon fodder as a means to an end.
It seems that this coalition Government can do as they like and those at the bottom of society are treated by them like lepers, they are unable to challenge their decision even at the ballot box because usually they do not vote, perhaps the people of your county should challenge your elected member of parliament regarding their human rights, rather than see his loyal constituents treated like the dregs of a rich man's society.

[orkneycadian]

I would also suspect that it costs a fair bit to install and run fridges etc to keep fresh food for longer.

Has the modern consumer really evolved to the point where they don't know how to store vegetables? Have they ceased to become aware that you don't keep things like tatties in the fridge, and that properly stored, they will keep for 6 months or more, without need for electricity? Is the modern consumer incapable of preparing any food that doesn't have a picture on the front of the packet, instructions on the back, and a best before date at the top? :roll:

[squidge]

Food bank users are not consumers they have no choice about where they get their food and little choice about what they eat. I think oddquine was talking about fridges and the like for food bank providers rather than users. Most food banks are in small or borrowed premises and don't have the choice of a place big enough or suitable enough to store tatties. Many are in church halls or a wee office where they have shelves from floor to ceiling on which they can store tins and packets but not much else. If you are providing food for fifty people a day like Glasgow City mission, and giving three days worth of food, that's probably quite a bit of tatties you need to store.

[Phill]

Has the modern consumer really evolved to the point where they don't know how to store vegetables? Have they ceased to become aware that you don't keep things like tatties in the fridge, and that properly stored, they will keep for 6 months or more, without need for electricity? Is the modern consumer incapable of preparing any food that doesn't have a picture on the front of the packet, instructions on the back, and a best before date at the top? :roll:
Yes.

We've been nannied by successive govts in every aspect of our lives, had education eroded so the output from school & universities recently have been retarded automatons reliant of the states teat, this in turn retains the 2 party system in the UK.

Being self responsible and self sufficient has been removed from our daily lives.

[Oddquine]

Food bank users are not consumers they have no choice about where they get their food and little choice about what they eat. I think oddquine was talking about fridges and the like for food bank providers rather than users. Most food banks are in small or borrowed premises and don't have the choice of a place big enough or suitable enough to store tatties. Many are in church halls or a wee office where they have shelves from floor to ceiling on which they can store tins and packets but not much else. If you are providing food for fifty people a day like Glasgow City mission, and giving three days worth of food, that's probably quite a bit of tatties you need to store.

That is exactly what I meant, squidge....... cost of purchase, cost of running and, in places where space is at a premium, the waste of space which could store more at less cost.

Have to say I keep my tatties in the bottom drawer of the fridge, as it is the darkest, coolest place in a small flat with very few cupboards in a narrow galley kitchen. You can only store vegetables in the way approved by those who know all, if there is somewhere appropriate in which to do that.

[squidge]

Being self responsible and self sufficient has been removed from our daily lives. You are right. And yet so many of us expect the poorest, those with least power, least resources, least money, least influence to be able, in the midst of their often chaotic, often broken, personal difficulties to have thought ahead far enough to have planted tatties and a whole range of fruit and veg to ensure they are able to feed themselves six months hence. And when they haven't our politicians and media often deride them as feckless spendthrifts who of course choose to queue at food banks for noodles and smash than eat tasty, healthy fresh meat and veg whilst they tuck into their Sunday roast and eat out when they choose. Changes need to happen to address food security across society so no one needs to use a food bank, especially because they have been left without benefits unfairly.

[samanthaflax02]

Nice information. Thanks for sharing!