View Full Version : independance
should scotland vote for independance?
linnie612
08-Feb-14, 20:13
No .......
RagnarRocks
08-Feb-14, 20:20
No ! ........
My heart says yes.....common sense says no
Why do we have a 3rd Independence thread. Surely one would be enough? Just saying :)
BTW I will be voting Yes
my wife is going to vote yes, I am going to vote No - and yes I am Scottish
No...I'll take any and all oportunities to say er No
should scotland vote for independance?
Yes...........!
ywindythesecond
09-Feb-14, 01:08
Yes...........!
I know you are committed to independence and you will have your own reasons for it. My question is, do you believe that the present Scottish Government is competent/trustable to take Scotland into independence? I do not want independence for Scotland, but I know of a few people who do want it and like me don't believe the present incumbents are fit for the job.
Tinkerbell09
09-Feb-14, 01:10
I'll be voting yes :)
ywindythesecond
09-Feb-14, 01:27
I'll be voting yes :)
I'll ask you the same question I asked Oddquine then:
I know you are committed to independence and you will have your own reasons for it. My question is, do you believe that the present Scottish Government is competent/trustable to take Scotland into independence? I do not want independence for Scotland, but I know of a few people who do want it and like me don't believe the present incumbents are fit for the job.
Tinkerbell09
09-Feb-14, 02:16
I'll ask you the same question I asked Oddquine then:
I know you are committed to independence and you will have your own reasons for it. My question is, do you believe that the present Scottish Government is competent/trustable to take Scotland into independence? I do not want independence for Scotland, but I know of a few people who do want it and like me don't believe the present incumbents are fit for the job.
I've done my research enough to support my decision. I do think independance will work if we are in the right hands!
Green_not_greed
09-Feb-14, 02:19
Its independence, not a dance of some sort. A little more important than that.........
I'll ask you the same question I asked Oddquine then:
I know you are committed to independence and you will have your own reasons for it. My question is, do you believe that the present Scottish Government is competent/trustable to take Scotland into independence? I do not want independence for Scotland, but I know of a few people who do want it and like me don't believe the present incumbents are fit for the job.
The simple answer is in 2016 you and those who do not like the SNP vote for another party. The SNP do not have a divine right to be in power, it is down to the voters in Scotland.
The simple answer is in 2016 you and those who do not like the SNP vote for another party. The SNP do not have a divine right to be in power, it is down to the voters in Scotland.
Actually, that is one of my pet derranged rants. If the SNP are kicked out in 2016, the chances are they will be replaced by a party commited to the Union. :confused
You understand it is me derrangedly ranting.
Blinking Heck Duc I've just thought the same (Labour trying to run Scotland!)
BETTER TOGETHER
RagnarRocks
09-Feb-14, 15:03
Labour running Scotland = financial ruination within 5 yrs
SNP running Scotland = financial ruination within 5 months
SNP running Scotland = financial ruination within 5 months
Labour running Scotland = financial ruination within 5 yrs
So which party if any would you like to see running an Independent Scotland?
Actually, that is one of my pet derranged rants. If the SNP are kicked out in 2016, the chances are they will be replaced by a party commited to the Union. :confused
You understand it is me derrangedly ranting.
I think the date set of independence is before the election is due.
RagnarRocks
09-Feb-14, 23:37
So which party if any would you like to see running an Independent Scotland?One that doesn't ruin Scotland by appeasing the voters with give always but manages the economy with a sense of responsibility which therefor benefits the entire population.
undecided but erring on a no
YES And before you ask Ywindy - I think that the political landscape will change after the referendum. AS Ducati has pointed out currently the parties that exist now are pro union. They will have to change and develop a vision for an Independent Scotland. IT is likely that we will have different choices. i will vote for whichever party convinces me that it will serve Scotland best and that it will implement policies which will improve the life of the people who live here. Whichever party will take the opportunities to redesign the welfare system, the tax system to ensure a fairer life for everyone. I dont know who that will be yet.
RagnarRocks
10-Feb-14, 09:51
Or you'll end up with exactly the same as we've got now just scaled down in size. I don't get where all this fairer bit comes from who's particular idea of fair are we dealing with. Fair means vastly different things to different people. What I do see here is fair meaning more socialist enforced state spending.
I think the date set of independence is before the election is due.
Yes I know. My (too subtle obviously) point is, after a yes vote, the next party elected into government is quite likely to be pro Union. So what happens then? 50 years campaigning to get back into the UK I should think.
Or you'll end up with exactly the same as we've got now just scaled down in size. I don't get where all this fairer bit comes from who's particular idea of fair are we dealing with. Fair means vastly different things to different people. What I do see here is fair meaning more socialist enforced state spending.
The thing is we can have what we choose. There is a lot of work going on just now through the Electoral Reform committee which is looking at the sort of democracy that we can decide upon once we are Independent. We will certainly have what we have now to start with, but we can change that at any time. There is work being done on a constitution which is likely to be in place in time for Independence Day which will set out in law fundamental and basic rights for Citizens of an Independent Scotland.
Fair does not mean a socialist enforced state spending at all. It means to offer a level playing field. It means addressing things like Tax avoidance and abuse, it means tackling health inequalities, (I know you seem to just think Scotland;s problems are cos their people stuff their faces with too much junk but just as the reasons that I am a fat lady are more complicated than eating too many bisuits - the health issues Scotland faces are vastly more complex. It is about access to healthcare, education, housing, childcare, employment,Some areas you may have to spend money - many you wont. Just because other places have poverty does not mean we should allow poverty in Scotland.
RagnarRocks
10-Feb-14, 16:48
The electoral reform commission would have no impact on an independent Scotland as its UK based so that no good. Have you seen the problems having a constitution has given the USA. On my travels around the world I've tend to have found that in impoverished countries obesity has a tendency to be in the better off classes, in this country we hear all about the various rationales behind obesity but the bottom line is, its on the majority caused through over consumption of calories and lack of physical activity. There are a few medical conditions that may cause it but on the whole these represent a very small minority. We have one of the most accessible health care systems in the world whilst it isn't perfect its a lot better than the vast majority yes it could get better but it could also save a lot of money.Childcare is one of those Thorny subjects but I've never seen when its been the states job to provide childcare. Education is the same in Scotland anyone with the where with all gets free education so its up to the Individual to do the work and make something of themselves. There are some health issues which result as to living in this part of the world MS being one of them. But alcoholism & drug abuse are nothing but self inflicted. All this stuff about free and fair societies seems to miss the point that we already live in one of the most free and fair societies in the world. Tax avoidance happens everywhere in the world I've yet to see a country which has a water tight taxation system. Basically what you are suggesting is more state interference into people's lives. A rich prosperous United Kingdom with more people working, paying taxes means the country can afford more social spending, the state only spends money it does not generate it. So therefor if you want more hospitals better treatment , better schools its better to have a robust working economy than one speeding money and running the country into more debt, which then impacts on future generations causing more poverty, hardship and inequality.
papigoeloon
10-Feb-14, 16:55
none let us stay a UNITED KINGDOM
Even Chance
10-Feb-14, 17:26
Keich, Indy all e way. Aye fae me it is fer sure..
The electoral reform commission would have no impact on an independent Scotland as its UK based so that no good.
IT has a role in advising and educating Scotland both now and potentially after a YES vote prior to Independence as you can see here (http://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/democracy-max/)
All this stuff about free and fair societies seems to miss the point that we already live in one of the most free and fair societies in the world.
And one of the most unequal http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk-most-unequal-country-in-the-west-1329614.html
Like people being left with no money because of a political impetus to punish rather than support
(http://kittysjones.wordpress.com/2014/02/08/punishing-poverty-a-review-of-benefits-sanctions-and-their-impacts-on-clients-and-claimants/)
Like people being in poverty despite actually being in work ,
(http://www.leftfootforward.org/2014/02/five-million-workers-excluded-from-recovery-says-living-wage-commission/)Like people being sanctioned for not applying for work which doesnt exist
(http://www.channel4.com/news/why-is-government-website-carrying-fake-jobs)
Like huge bonuses for bankers
(http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/fatcat-bankers-received-80billion-bonuses-3130125#.UvjSJLGh9Fc.twitter)
Like poor housing
(http://www.24dash.com/news/housing/2014-02-04-Life-is-getting-harder-for-Brits-as-parents-blame-poor-housing-for-tough-times#.Uvj28_sshcr)Like homelessness and the attitude towards it
(http://www.katebelgrave.com/2014/02/the-real-problem-with-homeless-people-theyre-attracted-to-cardboard/)Like the public money spent on welfare reforms is actually good value - NOT
(http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/feb/05/welfare-reform-waste-duncan-smith-universal-credit)Like its all their own fault anyway! (http://diaryofabenefitscrounger.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/the-big-benefits-row.html)
Like no-one has NO money in this day and age
(http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/exclusive-claimants-lose-all-their-income-under-disability-benefits-reform-9107586.html)
Tax avoidance happens everywhere in the world Oh well thats ok then - after all does it matter when we can screw those who dont have the choice to avoid tax to the floor?
. So therefor if you want more hospitals better treatment , better schools its better to have a robust working economy than one speeding money and running the country into more debt, which then impacts on future generations causing more poverty, hardship and inequality.
And what do you think is better than choosing to spending money on improving health rather than on paying private companies to deliver health services which cost more than they were under the public finance? What is better than spending public money on schools and education rather than forcing PFI initiatives on us which mean we are going to be forking out for spending for YEARS and YEARS to come. The last Scottish Labour Government saddled Scotland with a massive PFI bill for years and yet returned millions of pounds to Westminster because they "couldnt find anything to spend it on. A robust working economy means choosing to spend money on Back to work programmes which actually GET people into work not millions of pounds on making no difference at all. Spending money to improve people's health, education, housing and therefore improving their chances of finding and staying in work. IT means having the choice to abolish bedroom tax, PFI, Trident; having the choice NOT to spend money on high speed rail links, on the house of Lords, on London Sewers. Independence means having those choices - the choice to spend our money on things that will make a difference - will make people better off - not only financially but also health wise, housing wise, aspiration wise. Independence isnt the END of the process it is the beginning and if you cant see that then its no wonder you can only see what we have as the best there is.
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.