Benefit street parasites

[Mrs Bradey]

I watched a program on channel 4 last night '"Benefit Street" I was shocked but not surprised, what do orgers think may be the answer to sorting out the problem of fast breeding benefit cheats that are sucking the country dry? not willing to work or sort there lives out, but quite happy breeding children that the taxpayer has to clothe, feed and educate! occupying valuable housing in cities were people who work can't find housing! funding drug habits by shoplifting, theft, prostitution and mugging pensioners. is there a way that you think the government can ease this fast growing problem?

[riggerboy]

Stop giving them cash and put them on food parcels, also neuter them, enforced contraception at birth

[Big Gaz]

Better sex education at school would be a start but we all know it won't happen. Benefits should only be paid out to those who have paid in and hard as it may sound there should be strictly no extra benefits for any child if born to a mother on benefits. There is no need to bring a child into the world if you cannot afford to raise them properly. it's a simple thing to use contraception. As for benefits & housing, it's a total pi**take, as i know a 17 yr old lass who is pregnant at the moment and is in her second council house within 6 months and will be moving again when the child is born come this summer yet i know of several people who have been on the council list for some time and haven't yet even been considered for a house in the area. The 17 yr old said she that was having probs with her parents so got herself pregnant so she could get a house and has also made it clear that she has no intention whatsoever of finding a job and will probably have a 2nd and maybe a 3rd child "if she feels like it" to up her benefits money, but if they don't give her more money then she doesn't want the baby. both her and the father's parents are having a hissy-fit over this scheming little madam and her selfish and greedy behaviour and they have been told if they want to see their grandchild then they will have to help look after it when she "can't cope". She has already drawn up a rota and told them, it's saturday for her parents and sunday for his "or not at all" this is so she can have every weekend to herself. You can't win against people like her with that attitude. If her benefits get stopped, then who looks after the child/ren? = taxpayer mugs!

[Mrs Bradey]

Stop giving them cash and put them on food parcels, also neuter them, enforced contraception at birth ah yes! but what about human rights? how can you apply human rights to neutering at birth? to stop giving them cash encourages more theft, violence etc!

[joxville]

You can't win against people like her with that attitude. If her benefits get stopped, then who looks after the child/ren? = taxpayer mugs!You can win, the child is taken from her put up for adoption to people who want kids. Kick her out on her arse and she's got to make her own way in the world.

[neilsermk1]

Way to go Jox

[kosacid]

best thing was the YTS why did they do away with that, like what do they do now collage or dole bum or mc dee`s or packing shelves not relay much to chose from
and folk wonder why they get stuck in that rut they don't know nothing else

[riggerboy]

ah yes! but what about human rights? how can you apply human rights to neutering at birth? to stop giving them cash encourages more theft, violence etc!


Turn the jails back In to jails,not the hotels that they are at the moment,
Hand out stiffer penalties, yes the jails will be a bursting point for a time, but the society will soon learn, that itis not acceptable to try and live outside the law,

[Mrs Bradey]

best thing was the YTS why did they do away with that, like what do they do now collage or dole bum or mc dee`s or packing shelves not relay much to chose fromand folk wonder why they get stuck in that rut they don't know nothing elsethere were no jobs when I was young. I did a stint in yts, £23.50 a week, of which £15 went to my mum for house keeping! I enjoyed yts and then I got a job. should bring it back a large percentage may find they like to work and feel good providing for there families .

[Big Gaz]

Looks like the "stars" of the program are going to be helping police with their enquiries [lol]

http://uk.tv.yahoo.com/police-examine-documentary-claims-155348427.html

[Mrs Bradey]

Looks like the "stars" of the program are going to be helping police with their enquiries [lol]http://uk.tv.yahoo.com/police-examine-documentary-claims-155348427.htmlquite right too! in the article you linked, one of the "cast" said they were mislead as the programme was supposed to be about community. instead she said "it made us out to be scum" !!!!!!!!?!? I'm afraid not, it was the cast that did that, simply by being scum, thieving scum at that!!!

[Bobinovich]

I reckon the easiest option is to limit child benefit, tax credits, etc. to 2 children? Would make a few think twice about adding more to their brood I'm sure.

[squidge]

I reckon the easiest option is to engage brain before watching this utter claptrap and understand that it is manipulated for the viewing pleasure of the lowest common denominator. Car crash telly! Understand this and you might go half way to realising this is not a typical picture.

[Mrs Bradey]

I reckon the easiest option is to limit child benefit, tax credits, etc. to 2 children? Would make a few think twice about adding more to their brood I'm sure.limiting child benefit to 2 children, a good idea you might think. what about the rights of the innocent children who do not have the choice whether they are born or not. joxville's idea that babies be taken from young single mothers, who cannot afford to feed or house their offspring. to me sounds a reasonable suggestion. there was talk a few years back of a similar idea of putting the young mothers in hostels to take pressure off housing associations. I agree with Riggerboy that the prisons are far too soft, and offer no deterrent to these people, who when they have been in once, know what to expect- warm bed, good food, activities and most of all crime training and discussion groups on how to commit them!!!!!

[smj]

I am finding it very hard to believe what I have just read throughout this post! Why don't you just go the whole hog and have them all shot ......... Have you no humanity?

[Big Gaz]

I am finding it very hard to believe what I have just read throughout this post! Why don't you just go the whole hog and have them all shot ......... Have you no humanity?

Humanity? I suppose you approve of benefit scroungers who have multiple kids, don't work (certainly don't want to) have the full Sky TV package, internet, games consoles, top of the range mobile phones, nice car, nice private rented house paid for by housing benefit etc etc? End of the day when the govt make the cuts to the council budget allowance, the council will have no choice but to respond by cutting services. Street lighting is an option, only on during early evening and off until early morning, would you feel safe out at night in the dark?. One rubbish collection per month, watch the rats don't chew your shoes whilst you are out walking in the dark! No street cleaners, no road repairs, mind you dont trip up over the discarded bin bag or heaven forbid, fall into a pothole when crossing the road! child services cut, who's going to look after the waifs now? police & fire brigade cuts then you start whining when your house and all your worldly posessions are either stolen or burned to a crisp by some miscreant.......and the list goes on.
I myself have absolutely no issue with those who have "earned" their benefits due to paying taxes and national insurance but those who leave school, get pregnant and take a house, benefits and other handouts whilst making no effort to pay their way are just taking the ****. How would you feel if the council sent you a bill to pay for their keep on top of council tax? it might just well happen because Westminster have decided to make a £25bn cut in spending, most of which will come from cuts in the welfare bill (which is the clear intention next election).
Jobseekers allowance is £72 a week. That is the minimum as required by law that you need to live on. So say roughly £300 a month. The top Sky package is what? £40-50 a month?, mobile phone contract for the latest phone is at least £40 a month. Internet say £20 a month depending on ISP and service supplied and probably another £15 a month for line rental....so theres almost £120 a month on NON essential services thats paid for by benefits, leaving the claimants around £40 a week to feed and clothe themselves! But wait! you saved up for a month for a good night out in town and whilst you are out enjoying yourself you see a particular single parent female whom you know to have 3 kids and she is legless in Wetherspoons! how much did that cost her to get in that state? and it's not just that week, it's EVERY week! If 1 million+ "scroungers" can afford this money for the luxuries that others in work can't afford, then why are they getting so much benefit in the first place? theres £2bn+ savings right away!
Jobseekers allowance is there to support you and your family in times of unemployment. NOT to finance luxuries! and certainly not to pay you to have kids!

[linnie612]

http://forum.caithness.org/images/icons/icon1.png Benefit street parasites

Come on!, does anyone seriously think this thread was started to discuss "a way that you think the government can ease this fast growing problem?" or a platform for the usual 'let's tar all on benefits with the same (scummy) brush' brigade?

Mrs Bradey - I doubt you were "shocked" at all - you probably revelled in every minute of it ;).

[ducati]

I watched a program on channel 4 last night '"Benefit Street" I was shocked but not surprised, what do orgers think may be the answer to sorting out the problem of fast breeding benefit cheats that are sucking the country dry? not willing to work or sort there lives out, but quite happy breeding children that the taxpayer has to clothe, feed and educate! occupying valuable housing in cities were people who work can't find housing! funding drug habits by shoplifting, theft, prostitution and mugging pensioners. is there a way that you think the government can ease this fast growing problem?

Yep. that's pretty much the reaction the programme makers were aiming for. :roll:

[Mrs Bradey]

Come on!, does anyone seriously think this thread was started to discuss "a way that you think the government can ease this fast growing problem?" or a platform for the usual 'let's tar all on benefits with the same (scummy) brush' brigade?Mrs Bradey - I doubt you were "shocked" at all - you probably revelled in every minute of it ;).you are quite right I wasn't as shocked as my first post implied. however, it is very worrying to know these underclasses are not getting any smaller. in reality streets like this are not as uncommon as you might think.

[Mrs Bradey]

Yep. that's pretty much the reaction the programme makers were aiming for. :roll:yep, that's pretty much the reaction I was expecting when posting!!........................would still like to know what the answer to this escalating problem is???????

[baileys Bhoy]

Touchy subject here, when myself and my now hubby found out we were expecting I had just left college and was looking for work and hubby was a full time carer for a relative, we moved into a 1 bedroom council house as we could not afford the rent or price to buy a property for ourselves, my hubby searched and searched for work applying to many but to no avail, after around a year and a half we struck lucky and hubby found work, we had had mold problems + over crowding issues in our 1 bedroom house which the council didnt want to resolve, so pretty much as soon as we had a good income coming in we moved into a private rent, we found out we were expecting again that year and were elated as hubby was working, unfortunately the job ended a month before our LO was born, hubby immediately started hunting for work as soon as he fineshed the previous! But again the jobs were few and far between, in this time we had to go on benefits to support us, after 6 months work came up and hubby worked for 2 weeks with them before the site was shut down so due to this we had to get put back on benefits, then 2 weeks later hubby was back in work and traveled away for it, sadly this job only lasted 6 weeks and after which hubby never got paid so for a further 6 weeks my family of 4 lived on the small amount of savings we had, due to hubby being in and out of work so often it put us in a horriable situation then the fact that hubbys boss didnt pay him just made an already bad situation worse, we went back onto benefits and now hubby has been signed off work due to scoliosis of the spine although he is still searching for work against the advise of his doctor who told him he would be entitled to disability living allowance! He could be like others and reap the benefits and disability allowance! But hes not!!! We even spent thousands of our own money paying for qualifications to try and get him work! Some people do choose to stay on benefits but not all, I truely am sick of being thrown into a big heap of people being bullied for being on benefits!!! You know they are on them but you dont know the story behind why!!

[linnie612]

Well, I've just watched the programme. Danny is a plank - and it ain't because he's on benefits .....

[Big Gaz]

Some serious reactions to that show now. death threats and all!

http://uk.tv.yahoo.com/benefits-street-police-probe-39-criminality-39-135207962.html

[Mrs Bradey]

Touchy subject here, when myself and my now hubby found out we were expecting I had just left college and was looking for work and hubby was a full time carer for a relative, we moved into a 1 bedroom council house as we could not afford the rent or price to buy a property for ourselves, my hubby searched and searched for work applying to many but to no avail, after around a year and a half we struck lucky and hubby found work, we had had mold problems + over crowding issues in our 1 bedroom house which the council didnt want to resolve, so pretty much as soon as we had a good income coming in we moved into a private rent, we found out we were expecting again that year and were elated as hubby was working, unfortunately the job ended a month before our LO was born, hubby immediately started hunting for work as soon as he fineshed the previous! But again the jobs were few and far between, in this time we had to go on benefits to support us, after 6 months work came up and hubby worked for 2 weeks with them before the site was shut down so due to this we had to get put back on benefits, then 2 weeks later hubby was back in work and traveled away for it, sadly this job only lasted 6 weeks and after which hubby never got paid so for a further 6 weeks my family of 4 lived on the small amount of savings we had, due to hubby being in and out of work so often it put us in a horriable situation then the fact that hubbys boss didnt pay him just made an already bad situation worse, we went back onto benefits and now hubby has been signed off work due to scoliosis of the spine although he is still searching for work against the advise of his doctor who told him he would be entitled to disability living allowance! He could be like others and reap the benefits and disability allowance! But hes not!!! We even spent thousands of our own money paying for qualifications to try and get him work! Some people do choose to stay on benefits but not all, I truely am sick of being thrown into a big heap of people being bullied for being on benefits!!! You know they are on them but you dont know the story behind why!!you are quite obviously not on the heap with the cheats being discussed here. as you, as a couple were actively seeking work, and taking what came along. if your husband is genuinely entitled to disability living allowance, then he should take it! being unemployed, hard up, fallen on hard times, being depressed or disabled , etc does not make you a waster! being a waster does that!

[baileys Bhoy]

Thank you Mrs Bradey, I just feel tarnished whilst seeing a post like this one appear on the org, we genuinely would prefer to be working and as a mother to two young children I really dont have the time at the minute but I fully intend to take a job as soon as my youngest is in school, even if its only for a couple of hours whilst they are not around. Hubby has been given an opportunity of more work now so fingers crossed all goes well. To those who are scrounging, you should be ashamed of yourselves, there are a lot of hard working folk paying for your children and lifestyle! So maybe there should be some way for you to repay us, hubby and I always joke that the bin men, street cleaners etc should all be jobs for people on job seekers, that way they are working for there money! Not a bad idea in my opinion!

[golach]

hubby and I always joke that the bin men, street cleaners etc should all be jobs for people on job seekers, that way they are working for there money! Not a bad idea in my opinion!

Although I sympathise with your present predicament, I do not understand you throwing brickbats at bin men and street cleaners. those are not jobs for shirkers, shame on you.

[sweetpea]

Thank you Mrs Bradey, I just feel tarnished whilst seeing a post like this one appear on the org, we genuinely would prefer to be working and as a mother to two young children I really dont have the time at the minute but I fully intend to take a job as soon as my youngest is in school, even if its only for a couple of hours whilst they are not around. Hubby has been given an opportunity of more work now so fingers crossed all goes well. To those who are scrounging, you should be ashamed of yourselves, there are a lot of hard working folk paying for your children and lifestyle! So maybe there should be some way for you to repay us, hubby and I always joke that the bin men, street cleaners etc should all be jobs for people on job seekers, that way they are working for there money! Not a bad idea in my opinion!

Whilst I get the idea of doing something in return for benefits not sure why you would target bin collectors and street cleaners jobs as being the answer, they are really good jobs to have, probably why you don't see them advertised much, as folk tend to hold onto a good job like that.
I don't think the solution is a one size fits either, yes there will always be shirkers but there is also a lot of people on benefits really trying hard to find work although I reckon a lot of people need to look at their job seeking strategies and be taught the right skills to find work these days.
Also the whole job seeking agreement seems to be becoming a joke with people firing off CV's and emails randomly just to fill in their universal job match.

[baileys Bhoy]

sorry golach and sweatpea, it wasnt ment the way it sounded, I was putting across the point that there wouldnt be much training required, it would kind of be a "walk in job" as training would be needed for many other jobs no doubt being paid for by the tax payer, I know many people that go on offered courses to "keep the jobcentre happy" they have no intention of using the new qualifaction to find work! My hubby asked for funding towards (not even the full amount) getting his required tickets, a covering letter was given by a prospective employer that had offered the work as long as hubby had the tickets, the jobcenter declined! As a result the job went to someone else! We have now payed for it out of the little savings we have/had! Its difficult to live on benefits and if we had the choise we would work or even work to get our benefit payments!

[weefee]

I would be more interested in seeing a documentary of the top tax evading companies directors and the lovely luxury lifestyles they lead.......costing this country a hell of a lot more than benefit cheats,

the comment about bin men and street sweepers was pretty indicative of snobbery or just idiocy , these are worthwhile jobs and i'm pretty sure they get paid more than a nursery assistant or carer, you have already judged these people as worthless, not worth training into something productive and rewarding, it's attitudes like that these people face all their lives, they are probably up to their eyes in debt with payday loans, the media are manipulating these people, i don't condone the sense of entitlement that some seem to have, but tarring all people on benefits with the same brush isn't fair.

The statement about you had to pay for your partners own training out your own pocket because the job center refused you....how is that any different wanting something for nothing? My daughter is at college and will be paying all her student loans off to gain her education....she isn't asking the government for money, she has just turned 18. You had savings so why would you not use these to improve your job prospects. You are lucky you can save, I work and I can hardly afford to heat my house! I am a single parent and i worked with two young children and received no maintenance payments, it is your choice not to work and for you to be looking down your nose at other people is a bit harsh and hypocritical.

[weefee]

best thing was the YTS why did they do away with that, like what do they do now collage or dole bum or mc dee`s or packing shelves not relay much to chose from
and folk wonder why they get stuck in that rut they don't know nothing else

There is the employability fund, which offers training in employability skills, work experience and a training allowance of £55 per week , bus fares over £3 per week are also refunded, this is available for all ages not working from 16+ , there is also activity agreements for 16 - 19 year olds to help them access training and build skills to make them more employable, so yes there is plenty of things to be doing if people actually look

And what is wrong with working in McD's or packing shelves.....why do people continually put jobs down as or pointless or worthless, "oh your a dole bum, your worthless" "oh you work in mcD's your worthless" make up your minds.....surely doing something, anything productive that benefits your community is worthwhile, who says that staking shelves i tesco won't lead to a store managers position later on, and MacDonalds have a really good managment scheme, so stop putting people who do these jobs down, they are just like you and me and trying to do something , who are you to judge their job as worthless?

[sweetpea]

sorry golach and sweatpea, it wasnt ment the way it sounded, I was putting across the point that there wouldnt be much training required, it would kind of be a "walk in job" as training would be needed for many other jobs no doubt being paid for by the tax payer, I know many people that go on offered courses to "keep the jobcentre happy" they have no intention of using the new qualifaction to find work! My hubby asked for funding towards (not even the full amount) getting his required tickets, a covering letter was given by a prospective employer that had offered the work as long as hubby had the tickets, the jobcenter declined! As a result the job went to someone else! We have now payed for it out of the little savings we have/had! Its difficult to live on benefits and if we had the choise we would work or even work to get our benefit payments!

That's a shame about the training. I reckon funding information should be made more public as there are a number of funds that can be accessed but the information about them or how to access them is not put out there for public consumption, that would be a job for someone to collate it all and put it out using social media or something and offer free help to people to navigate these things! plus having heard similar tales like yours it probably doesn't help that there is a certain amount of adviser discretion shall I call it (if your face fits). Hope your hubby gets sorted now, but by the grace of God and all that I've never had to sign on but that is only by pure luck of the generation I am as jobs have always seemed to be aplenty when I've needed one plus I was lucky enough to be brought up with a strong work ethic whereas now it's the more and more common to see generations of families who haven't worked.

[sweetpea]

I would be more interested in seeing a documentary of the top tax evading companies directors and the lovely luxury lifestyles they lead.......costing this country a hell of a lot more than benefit cheats,

the comment about bin men and street sweepers was pretty indicative of snobbery or just idiocy , these are worthwhile jobs and i'm pretty sure they get paid more than a nursery assistant or carer, you have already judged these people as worthless, not worth training into something productive and rewarding, it's attitudes like that these people face all their lives, they are probably up to their eyes in debt with payday loans, the media are manipulating these people, i don't condone the sense of entitlement that some seem to have, but tarring all people on benefits with the same brush isn't fair.

The statement about you had to pay for your partners own training out your own pocket because the job center refused you....how is that any different wanting something for nothing? My daughter is at college and will be paying all her student loans off to gain her education....she isn't asking the government for money, she has just turned 18. You had savings so why would you not use these to improve your job prospects. You are lucky you can save, I work and I can hardly afford to heat my house! I am a single parent and i worked with two young children and received no maintenance payments, it is your choice not to work and for you to be looking down your nose at other people is a bit harsh and hypocritical.

Well said!

[mackay5255]

sorry golach and sweatpea, it wasnt ment the way it sounded, I was putting across the point that there wouldnt be much training required, it would kind of be a "walk in job" as training would be needed for many other jobs no doubt being paid for by the tax payer, I know many people that go on offered courses to "keep the jobcentre happy" they have no intention of using the new qualifaction to find work! My hubby asked for funding towards (not even the full amount) getting his required tickets, a covering letter was given by a prospective employer that had offered the work as long as hubby had the tickets, the jobcenter declined! As a result the job went to someone else! We have now payed for it out of the little savings we have/had! Its difficult to live on benefits and if we had the choise we would work or even work to get our benefit payments! Yes, but what we all want to know is: how big's your telly?

[orkneycadian]

Without defining the actual positions, there are plenty opportunities for employment that could be filled on a temporary basis by those seeking benefits. As posted above, these would be jobs where little or no training is required. Other countries manage to do this, so why not us? Instead, our terminally unemployable have no qualms about sitting back and seeing the work go to harder working immigrants.

[baileys Bhoy]

As stated in my apology post the comment about bin men etc wasnt said as an insult, a dear friend of mine is a bin man and he also agrees that people on jsa should get into work to pay for there benefits! He was the one who got me thinking about the training side of the argument..... who will pay for it!? I am certinly no "snob" I have debt including an amount owed to my parents! The only reason we had any savings at all was because hubby earned £47000 in 2012, with this we payed off a lot of debts icluding our student loans from while we had been on benefits! We also payed the £4000 for the tickets! So yes i suppose we have been quite lucky! But hubby worked long hours to get there! Even when hubby is working we never go out, we dont drink or smoke, our children have what they need not what they want! All in all we asked for help because we had been told that the job center would maybe be able to help if there was a job to be had at the end, we were only asking for money towards not the full amount.... the work my hubby has found and has been working for was found by looking himself and companies seeing his C.V online, not through help from the jobcenter!

[donnick]

There is also the point of work ethics ,I have worked from the age of thirteen to earn my money as we never got pocket money when young. I have worked all my life barr two weeks I was made redundant and when i went to sign on I was embarrassed to sign on .I think folk need to take pride in working for there money .benefits are there to help you when your out of work not a way of life (my friends said that quote) .I once heard a customer call benefits wages omg wages are worked for .stop blaming the government because folk are to bloody lazy to go out and earn living

[jacko]

Turn the jails back In to jails,not the hotels that they are at the moment,
Hand out stiffer penalties, yes the jails will be a bursting point for a time, but the society will soon learn, that itis not acceptable to try and live outside the law,

agree fully with you there, if they make doing time HARD, really hard , if they dont like it then they wont want to go there.
and as for human right s , in my opinion they gave up their right to that when they landed in jail.

about time we were allowed to set our own rules instead of those fools in Brussels ruling us.

[Azabache]

There are people that are on benefits due to change of circumstance that are outwith their own control by job loss or ill health but there are others who are just pure lazy gits and dont want to earn or couldnt possibly work for someone else, so ust dont bother as it is too easy to let the rest of the state pay for their lazy hides being sat on a sofa swigging beer playing computer games, its them that should be targeted not the genuine people.

[Thumper]

There are people that are on benefits due to change of circumstance that are outwith their own control by job loss or ill health but there are others who are just pure lazy gits and dont want to earn or couldnt possibly work for someone else, so ust dont bother as it is too easy to let the rest of the state pay for their lazy hides being sat on a sofa swigging beer playing computer games, its them that should be targeted not the genuine people.. This is the problem though, people are only too happy to tar everyone with the same brush,when there are genuine people on job seekers who want to find work! Making people work for their benefits worn work,all it will do us get these who do want to work have to do these menial jobs whilst the dole bludgers will come up with yet more creative ways to ensure they don't have to work,some people have never and never gave any intention of doing anything but claim,it's sad as it names the genuine ones suffer badly while the work shy walk away Scott free yet again x

[baileys Bhoy]

There are people that are on benefits due to change of circumstance that are outwith their own control by job loss or ill health but there are others who are just pure lazy gits and dont want to earn or couldnt possibly work for someone else, so ust dont bother as it is too easy to let the rest of the state pay for their lazy hides being sat on a sofa swigging beer playing computer games, its them that should be targeted not the genuine people.

Well said!!!

[Liz]

. This is the problem though, people are only too happy to tar everyone with the same brush,when there are genuine people on job seekers who want to find work! Making people work for their benefits worn work,all it will do us get these who do want to work have to do these menial jobs whilst the dole bludgers will come up with yet more creative ways to ensure they don't have to work,some people have never and never gave any intention of doing anything but claim,it's sad as it names the genuine ones suffer badly while the work shy walk away Scott free yet again x

Exactly! These type of programmes deliberately portray benefit claimants in the worst possible light to get the kind of reaction shown on this thread.

[billmoseley]

How about giving claimants a credit card which is topped up with credits each week by the government. Theses credits can be used for food and house hold utilities and clothing not cigs or drink.

[lybster111]

don't you get the drift mrs bradey....its the government who orchestrated this scenario

[Big Gaz]

How about giving claimants a credit card which is topped up with credits each week by the government. Theses credits can be used for food and house hold utilities and clothing not cigs or drink.

That would involve shops having to change their tills etc., to ensure the punters buy only what is allowed. No doubt there would be a surcharge slapped on usage of the card for by that particular shop . i think this idea was looked at a while ago and not many shops were keen. Some even quoted that they didn't want to get aggro when refusing to sell a product that wasn't allowed.

Tell me why a person on benefits who gets the minimum amount required by law to live on (£72 and change) yet can afford a mobile phone contract, telephone & broadband contract and most (not all) have a Sky contract. I reckon if you are on benefits, you should not be entering into any sort of contract or agreement to pay out money on a monthly basis. The money is given to live on, not support a techno lifestyle

[Mrs Bradey]

don't you get the drift mrs bradey....its the government who orchestrated this scenario I get the drift - always did - you seem to doubt my intelligence. I was as much interested in the reaction of the orgers, as the programme makers were in the viewers reaction! just as it makes good provocative telly, it makes for good provocative debate on here!....... now why do YOU think the government would be behind a programme of this nature? ............. to start civil unrest? ........... why would they show their own system failing?

[Thumper]

That would involve shops having to change their tills etc., to ensure the punters buy only what is allowed. No doubt there would be a surcharge slapped on usage of the card for by that particular shop . i think this idea was looked at a while ago and not many shops were keen. Some even quoted that they didn't want to get aggro when refusing to sell a product that wasn't allowed.Tell me why a person on benefits who gets the minimum amount required by law to live on (£72 and change) yet can afford a mobile phone contract, telephone & broadband contract and most (not all) have a Sky contract. I reckon if you are on benefits, you should not be entering into any sort of contract or agreement to pay out money on a monthly basis. The money is given to live on, not support a techno lifestyleAh BUT the dwp now expect you ti have internet access! Or travel to libraries to access it,and if you don't live near one then you have to pay the cost to get there,so really they gave you by the bahoolies no matter what! X

[billmoseley]

There has to be some fair way of sorting it out so the ones who deserve it get what they need and the scroungers get to realise that the world doesn,t owe them anything.

[Mrs Bradey]

How about giving claimants a credit card which is topped up with credits each week by the government. Theses credits can be used for food and house hold utilities and clothing not cigs or drink. I think this is a good idea, if it was made that the card holder had to present id at the check out this would restrict fraudulent use of cards. obviously not eliminate it though.

[orkneycadian]

That would involve shops having to change their tills etc., to ensure the punters buy only what is allowed. No doubt there would be a surcharge slapped on usage of the card for by that particular shop . i think this idea was looked at a while ago and not many shops were keen. Some even quoted that they didn't want to get aggro when refusing to sell a product that wasn't allowed.

Its a lot simpler than that. It just needs to be a card that says its a benefits card, but is still a Mastercard, Visa Card, etc. So the tills would still accept it, it would just be the shop staff that filter out what it can and cannot be used for. And they don't seem to have any problem with potential aggro from under 25's who are challenged for proof of age ID. Given that much of the benefit abuse goes on luxuries such as tobacco and alcohol, then the shop staff should be pretty well used to being selective about who they sell to.

[Alrock]

...the world doesn,t owe them anything.

On that basis the world doesn't owe anybody anything, let's just have a state of complete anarchy & live by the rule of survival of the fittest, everything goes, with no recourse to the law (as there will be no laws).

[Alrock]

Its a lot simpler than that. It just needs to be a card that says its a benefits card, but is still a Mastercard, Visa Card, etc. So the tills would still accept it, it would just be the shop staff that filter out what it can and cannot be used for. And they don't seem to have any problem with potential aggro from under 25's who are challenged for proof of age ID. Given that much of the benefit abuse goes on luxuries such as tobacco and alcohol, then the shop staff should be pretty well used to being selective about who they sell to.

Or to make it even easier for the scum to be identified, then why not just sew yellow stars on their jackets to make it obvious to everyone that they are second class citizens, the dregs of society & should be shunned.

[billmoseley]

On that basis the world doesn't owe anybody anything, let's just have a state of complete anarchy & live by the rule of survival of the fittest, everything goes, with no recourse to the law (as there will be no laws). Some of these people have never worked a day in there lives and have no intention too. So why should they be entitled to anything. Most of us work hard and pay our taxes but i'm sorry when i see people and hear people gloating about what they have got for nothing it angers me.

[Thumper]

Some of these people have never worked a day in there lives and have no intention too. So why should they be entitled to anything. Most of us work hard and pay our taxes but i'm sorry when i see people and hear people gloating about what they have got for nothing it angers me. I can see why it would anger you,but you are classing all unemployed together,the ones who abuse the system will still find wats of doing so,and rest assured they won't go without luxuries! Spend a few hours in the local offices and you can see those who get away with everything and those who don't! Sine people get everything they want handed to them,others struggle to get what they are entitled to! X

[billmoseley]

No i'm not classing them all the same. some people can't not avoid having to claim and should be entitled to benefits. But a lot just take what they can get.

[Mrs Bradey]

I reckon the easiest option is to engage brain before watching this utter claptrap and understand that it is manipulated for the viewing pleasure of the lowest common denominator. Car crash telly! Understand this and you might go half way to realising this is not a typical picture.episode 2 is on tonight channel 4 9pm hope you are going to watch the "car crash" I certainly will be, popcorn at the ready. I will engage my brain and see if I can convince myself this is not typical!! although this will be difficult as the street is sort of reminiscent of some streets in wick, thurso and even castletown!!!...................Lybster111 hope you are going to watch too, perhaps afterwards you can demonstrate how the government orchestrated it!!!

[Kevin Milkins]

I watched it and had to wonder how is it possible to be a good shoplifter? it must be impossible to keep a low profile with a film crew following you around. It cant be for real, surely not.

[Mrs Bradey]

I watched it and had to wonder how is it possible to be a good shoplifter? it must be impossible to keep a low profile with a film crew following you around. It cant be for real, surely not.you have to wonder!? never actually saw any shoplifting being carried out though! however film crew in your shop would be a good distraction:

[Anfield]

50+ posts and not one mention of the UK's biggest "Benefit Scroungers", step forward Mr. & Mrs Windsor, and their ever expanding dynasty of parasites
We should also mention the "Cheats" in the House of Lords, who attend for 30 minutes a day in order to claimed their £250 daily allowance.
And of course you may have forgotten the scores of "(dis)honourable MP's who made "mistakes" when submitting their expenses claim forms.

[squidge]

Honestly - I despair sometimes!!!!

Those of you who want to give cards to people who get benefits .....

1. Do you think those on benefits are second class citizens - not equal to you or I or deserving of the same respect or rights?

2. Do you think therefore that those people on JSA, ESA, Carers Allowance, DLA, Tax Credits, Income support and any other benefit do not deserve a packet of cigarettes or a bottle of wine? Do you think they should be denied mobile phone top ups, a sky dish either with or without a subscription, or a computer or internet access? Even if they manage their benefits to budget for all or any of those things?

3. Do you think being on benefits automatically makes a person incapable or unable to manage their benefit money and if so is that the fault of the people on benefits? OR do you think that people on benefits should be punished by not being allowed to manage their money?

4. Are you suggesting that there are deserving and undeserving poor? That there should be some point at which people should be punished simply for being on benefit regardless of whether they meet the eligibility criteria and the entitlement conditions? If so, who would you like to decide that point?

Lets put some facts into this ridiculous conversation - how much of the welfare budget is spent on unemployment benefit? Its around 3%.

What is the rate of fraud? 0.8% of total benefit expenditure.

How many families on out of work benefits have more than three children? Only 8% of "benefit claimants" ( of any benefit) have more than three children and only 130 families who are reliant on benefits in the whole country have 10 children or more. There is no evidence to suggest that families reliant on benefits have more children than those who are not reliant on benefits.

How many households are there where three generations of the same family have never worked? the answer is miniscule. In fact despite research and determined effort the Joseph Rowntree Foundation couldnt find any.The number of families where two generations havent worked was less than 1 percent - they found no evidence of "a culture of worklessness".

How many families are getting over £100 000 in benefits as George Osborne suggested? The answer is less than five families in the whole country are getting that amount in housing benefit.

The much trumpeted benefit cap reduced benefits of just 58 000 families.

The biggest bit of any benefit is likely to be housing benefit and that is outwith the control of the people receiving it. Landlords set rents - people have to live somewhere - so lets punish those in reciepts of benefits for the level of rent their landlord chooses.

I wouldnt suggest that the government engineered this ridiculously skewed programme but it plays right into the hands of their policies of punishing the poorest and least empowered people in societly for the mistakes of often the richest and most influential. Ian Duncan Smith must get a real kick out of seeing Channel four pander to the hysterical and completely misled bunch of numpties that watch these programmes and think they are true examples of real life told as it is.

All the figures I have quoted are verifiable and you can google them if you are even remotely interested in being INFORMED about welfare and the benefits system in the UK today. On the other hand - where's the remote...... turn up the nonsense who cares about the facts......

You choose!!!!

[rich62_uk]

I would be more interested in seeing a programme letting us know who and how the Gov employees are conning this Country out of money ! Bet that programme wont see the light of day .....

[kosacid]

I would be more interested in seeing a programme letting us know who and how the Gov employees are conning this Country out of money ! Bet that programme wont see the light of day .....
they wont simply because all hell would be let lose even if they don't show any conning ways they still get money for everything including food and trips of 100 yards in a taxi to get there

[Mrs Bradey]

Honestly - I despair sometimes!!!!Those of you who want to give cards to people who get benefits .....1. Do you think those on benefits are second class citizens - not equal to you or I or deserving of the same respect or rights? 2. Do you think therefore that those people on JSA, ESA, Carers Allowance, DLA, Tax Credits, Income support and any other benefit do not deserve a packet of cigarettes or a bottle of wine? Do you think they should be denied mobile phone top ups, a sky dish either with or without a subscription, or a computer or internet access? Even if they manage their benefits to budget for all or any of those things? 3. Do you think being on benefits automatically makes a person incapable or unable to manage their benefit money and if so is that the fault of the people on benefits? OR do you think that people on benefits should be punished by not being allowed to manage their money? 4. Are you suggesting that there are deserving and undeserving poor? That there should be some point at which people should be punished simply for being on benefit regardless of whether they meet the eligibility criteria and the entitlement conditions? If so, who would you like to decide that point? Lets put some facts into this ridiculous conversation - how much of the welfare budget is spent on unemployment benefit? Its around 3%.What is the rate of fraud? 0.8% of total benefit expenditure. How many families on out of work benefits have more than three children? Only 8% of "benefit claimants" ( of any benefit) have more than three children and only 130 families who are reliant on benefits in the whole country have 10 children or more. There is no evidence to suggest that families reliant on benefits have more children than those who are not reliant on benefits. How many households are there where three generations of the same family have never worked? the answer is miniscule. In fact despite research and determined effort the Joseph Rowntree Foundation couldnt find any.The number of families where two generations havent worked was less than 1 percent - they found no evidence of "a culture of worklessness". How many families are getting over £100 000 in benefits as George Osborne suggested? The answer is less than five families in the whole country are getting that amount in housing benefit. The much trumpeted benefit cap reduced benefits of just 58 000 families. The biggest bit of any benefit is likely to be housing benefit and that is outwith the control of the people receiving it. Landlords set rents - people have to live somewhere - so lets punish those in reciepts of benefits for the level of rent their landlord chooses.I wouldnt suggest that the government engineered this ridiculously skewed programme but it plays right into the hands of their policies of punishing the poorest and least empowered people in societly for the mistakes of often the richest and most influential. Ian Duncan Smith must get a real kick out of seeing Channel four pander to the hysterical and completely misled bunch of numpties that watch these programmes and think they are true examples of real life told as it is. All the figures I have quoted are verifiable and you can google them if you are even remotely interested in being INFORMED about welfare and the benefits system in the UK today. On the other hand - where's the remote...... turn up the nonsense who cares about the facts......You choose!!!! a lot of words there, and not saying much! Firstly; in answer to your numbered questions, my answers would be; 1. NO; 2. NO, (as you put it) but it is not as simple as deserving a bottle of wine and a packet of cigarettes, is it? and you know it. there are a plethora of illegal drugs on the shopping list of the parasites being discussed here, not the broad spectrum of those on benefit you describe! 3. NO, quite the opposite, many people on benefits become quite shrewd, and should be proud of, and applauded for how they manage! 4. YES, I am suggesting there are undeserving poor. and, NO, i don't think people should be punished simply for being on benefits regardless, as you suggest! Now some of your RIDICULOUS FACTS........ 0.8% benefit fraud; this is for the total benefit expenditure. it would be interesting to see what percentage of that 0.8% were claiming JSA ! only 8% of benefit claimants (of ALL benefit claimants) have 3 or more children. with 130 families with 10 or more (that's more than I would have thought). How many families have 8 or 9 ? 3 generations of permanent unemployed in one household that have NEVER worked. never is a very definite word. there will be many like this where one for two weeks here or there have been worked (probably forced by DSS)! YOU should become a politician, as you seem good at taking irrelevant facts and statistics and manipulating to suit yourself, and trying to cover the issue at hand with blanket statements!!! who cares about the facts? obviously not you Squidge !

[weezer 316]

Bleeding this country dry eh.......

Only one benefit claiming mob are bleeding this country dry and it aint the mob in benefit street or the immigrants, its the pensioners! £82bn at the last count, more than half the benefits budget. Jobseekers allowance and income support account for a measly 11bn

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8dY-3hzSftCMng5TFBkaFdSb3M/edit?pli=1

[golach]

Bleeding this country dry eh.......

Only one benefit claiming mob are bleeding this country dry and it aint the mob in benefit street or the immigrants, its the pensioners! £82bn at the last count, more than half the benefits budget.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8dY-3hzSftCMng5TFBkaFdSb3M/edit?pli=1

At least we pensioners have paid our way, I personally worked for 55 years, and I get no benefits apart from my state pension, heating allowance, and a bus pass,

[jacko]

At least we pensioners have paid our way, I personally worked for 55 years, and I get no benefits apart from my state pension, heating allowance, and a bus pass,

I agree entirely with Golach. i too am a pensioner , Ive never claimed unemployment benefit , worked all my life untill 65, paid a shed load of income tax....Paid into a private pension & recieve an occupational pension + state pension, i am well enough off ,...but i paid and earned everything i have. i own my own home, i still pay tax ,rates ,etc.I recieve no benefits nor do i ask or need any.
SO how do you figure the pensioner a burden...... im interested in your reply...reply..................................... ................ps/ i do have a bus pass which i rarely use as i have bought and paid for my own car .

[weezer 316]

Well I'm 30 on Friday, worked full time since was 17. What happens if I lse my job? Am I a scrounger, lower than low, scum of the earth?

Oh quite the burden you lot. Saddled us with heaps of debt for a start. The the fact you have worked your ENTIRE lives but still rely on teh state, all the while paying a pittance in national insurance. Furthermore, your as unhealthy a lot as can, obviously due to age at times, but also down to your vastly higher rates of smoking, drinking and complete lack of health and safety led many of you to being a far bigger burden on the state than you will ever admit. If you have worked all your life you can organise a pension yourself. God knows I do, no chance I am seeing a state pension and we have no money to invest anywhere it seems as Pensions and healthcare for on 60s eat up nearly half our budget.

First thing i would do is abolish the state pension and have a credit card like the benefit idea for pensioners who coudlnt pay their way. Apparently its OK to be a sponger and take way more than you ever gave if your old.

And please dont get upset about the generalizations here. Based on this thread its a speciality of you lot!

[rob murray]

ANy one see the One Show last night : they featured a bit on Benefits street, its now recognised that its the worst kind of skewered TV, playing into the hands of the anti benefits / hang and flog em Daily Mail brigade,the presenters seemed to suggest that there seemed to be some doubts if the series was going to be allowed to continue. Paul O Grady was on, and his take was honest and to the point : ie what does Ian Duncan Smith know or ever knew about being poor ? O Grady suggested that they re open work houses and be done with it. go the whole hog : work or want.

Top 5 Money Wasters

Bankers / High Finance people on huge bonuses ( leaching off the money of honest working people )
Corporate international Businesses who can avoid taxation dues, cos they have the money to buy advise on how to play the system : no difference between them and an "informed" benefits claiman, they are both at itt
Business owners ( famed entreprenuers ) who can afford to employ top paid accountants to help them avoid paying corporation tax
Payments for the House of Lords ( all of them )
All this crap due the over 60;s : universal benefits ( bus passes etc ) given to all regardless of income status..come one stop this now

Sort the above out, as for the benefit street voyeurs...must be great having your prejudices played out eh ! Me...well lets say I hold more humane views eh !

[weezer 316]

Rob I suggest book learning or medication.

Banker and finance top waste of money is the worst shout ever from you too.........Awful shout

[rob murray]

Rob I suggest book learning or medication.

Banker and finance top waste of money is the worst shout ever from you too.........Awful shout

Care to explain what you mean, as Im thick but, how can a state owned bank ( RBS ) pay large bonuses in a failing bank ?? I suggest you lie down in a dark room mate and take yer medication

[rob murray]

Rob I suggest book learning or medication.

Banker and finance top waste of money is the worst shout ever from you too.........Awful shout

Just checked a couple of yer posts...yer a wind up merchant ta ta, amuse yourself at some one elses expense, once again cant be bothered with this crap, so back into org exile, possibly post in another couple of months, but I will leave the BNP / UKIP elements here to crack on.

[weezer 316]

Right.....first off its not a failing bank. The losses over the past few years are due to write downs on their property portfolio and changes in the value of their own debt. Likely be in profit this year. And even then, the bonus pool is like £400m, on top of wages, from a turnover of about £30bn. It's literally a drop in the ocean. Now you can argue day and night if anyone should get a bonus but your ludicrous assertion that such sums constitute the greatest waste going is laughable and is why no one takes your point seriously.

Secondly, the top 1% generates 26% of income tax. What should they pay and why shouldn't I pay more seeing as I get services that I cant hope to possibly pay for myself? I paid ZERO income tax last year for the record.

[squidge]

Now some of your RIDICULOUS FACTS........ 0.8% benefit fraud; this is for the total benefit expenditure. it would be interesting to see what percentage of that 0.8% were claiming JSA ! only 8% of benefit claimants (of ALL benefit claimants) have 3 or more children. with 130 families with 10 or more (that's more than I would have thought). How many families have 8 or 9 ? 3 generations of permanent unemployed in one household that have NEVER worked. never is a very definite word. there will be many like this where one for two weeks here or there have been worked (probably forced by DSS)! YOU should become a politician, as you seem good at taking irrelevant facts and statistics and manipulating to suit yourself, and trying to cover the issue at hand with blanket statements!!! who cares about the facts? obviously not you Squidge !

Ok lets unpick this rambling a little bit Mrs Bradey


Now some of your RIDICULOUS FACTS........ 0.8% benefit fraud; this is for the total benefit expenditure. it would be interesting to see what percentage of that 0.8% were claiming JSA !

Here are the Government Figures provided by oooh guess what ....the Government themselves.:roll:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/203097/nsfr-final-090513.pdf

0.7 percent of total benefit expenditure is caused by fraud

4.6% of JSA expenditure is caused by fraud and error

You can look at the statistics themselves by looking around this particular page. You can check the figures going back a couple of years too if you like.


only 8% of benefit claimants (of ALL benefit claimants) have 3 or more children. with 130 families with 10 or more (that's more than I would have thought). How many families have 8 or 9 ?

I did make a mistake actually - It seems that the 8% is of families on out of work benefits not ALL benefits. Here is the link - you can follow it to the links to read the actual articles and research at the bottom of this article but it covers your questions quite well.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/apr/06/welfare-britain-facts-myths

What it tells us is that at the moment the research was done there were 1080 families where there are 8 children and 360 where there are nine children. It also means that some of these families will be receiving JSA but some will also be receiving ESA because they are not fit to work - not necessarily their fault or something they can do anything about. Also it is worth pointing out that 80% of people leave benefits before ever getting as far as the work programme - people are on and off benefits and so many of these families will only be on benefits a short time.


never is a very definite word. there will be many like this where one for two weeks here or there have been worked (probably forced by DSS)

http://www.jrf.org.uk/blog/2012/12/cultures-worklessness
http://www.policypress.co.uk/display.asp?K=9781847429100

The graphic on the guardians page illustrates the issue quite well.
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/4/6/1365278275653/Patterns-of-work-in-worki-001.jpg

So there are less than one percent of families where neither generations have worked and of that 1% only 9% have never worked and 39% have worked in the last two years. To break your claim for benefit and start a new one you have to have been off benefit for at leat 8 weeks - possibly 13 - I cant find the information on the internet just now.

That does mean that only around 0.09% of familes receiving out of work benefits have two generations where no one has ever worked.


YOU should become a politician, as you seem good at taking irrelevant facts and statistics and manipulating to suit yourself, and trying to cover the issue at hand with blanket statements!!! who cares about the facts? obviously not you Squidge !

I think you will find that the statistics and research that I quoted is absolutely relevant to this thread which YOU started and which focused on


the problem of fast breeding benefit cheats that are sucking the country dry? not willing to work or sort there lives out, but quite happy breeding children that the taxpayer has to clothe,

I made no "blanket statements" I focused specifically on detailed research and analysis which showed that your "blanket statements" are exactly that and also probably "ridiculous". I have no wish to be a politician Mrs Bradey but I do think it is important that ignorance the like of which is demonstrated in this thread should be challenged. I havent even got started on the second half of your disgusting statement - what was it?
that the taxpayer has to clothe, feed and educate! occupying valuable housing in cities were people who work can't find housing! funding drug habits by shoplifting, theft, prostitution and mugging pensioners. or the appalling suggestion by a variety of posters that people on benefits should have their children removed - honestly I cant beleive what I read sometimes. Like I said - reach for your remote and turn up the volume or do your own research and learn something. However you can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink.

Edit -

Actually perhaps I am doing you a disservice - maybe you would like to share with your where YOU get your information from that leads you to think that people are the way you describe. Perhaps you could link us to some of your research - apart from benefits street I have already seen that. Perhaps you could also share with us what your experiences are of working with or dealing with people on benefits and how they have demonstrated their reluctance to work, their criminal tendencies and their urge to "fast breed". I would be really interested to read some of the detailed research and statistics that you have used.

[Mrs Bradey]

Ok lets unpick this rambling a little bit Mrs BradeyHere are the Government Figures provided by oooh guess what ....the Government themselves.:roll:https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/203097/nsfr-final-090513.pdf0.7 percent of total benefit expenditure is caused by fraud 4.6% of JSA expenditure is caused by fraud You can look at the statistics themselves by looking around this particular page. You can check the figures going back a couple of years too if you like. I did make a mistake actually - It seems that the 8% is of families on out of work benefits not ALL benefits. Here is the link - you can follow it to the links to read the actual articles and research at the bottom of this article but it covers your questions quite well. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/apr/06/welfare-britain-facts-mythsWhat it tells us is that at the moment the research was done there were 1080 families where there are 8 children and 360 where there are nine children. It also means that some of these families will be receiving JSA but some will also be receiving ESA because they are not fit to work - not necessarily their fault or something they can do anything about. Also it is worth pointing out that 80% of people leave benefits before ever getting as far as the work programme - people are on and off benefits and so many of these families will only be on benefits a short time. http://www.jrf.org.uk/blog/2012/12/cultures-worklessnesshttp://www.policypress.co.uk/display.asp?K=9781847429100The graphic on the guardians page illustrates the issue quite well. http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/4/6/1365278275653/Patterns-of-work-in-worki-001.jpg So there are less than one percent of families where neither generations have worked and of that 1% only 9% have never worked and 39% have worked in the last two years. To break your claim for benefit and start a new one you have to have been off benefit for at leat 8 weeks - possibly 13 - I cant find the information on the internet just now. That does mean that only around 0.09% of familes receiving out of work benefits have two generations where no one has ever worked. I think you will find that the statistics and research that I quoted is absolutely relevant to this thread which YOU started and which focused on I made no "blanket statements" I focused specifically on detailed research and analysis which showed that your "blanket statements" are exactly that and also probably "ridiculous". I have no wish to be a politician Mrs Bradey but I do think it is important that ignorance the like of which is demonstrated in this thread should be challenged. Like I said - reach for your remote and turn up the volume or do your own research and learn something. However you can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink. great work. but all that aside, how would you help the long term unemployed (the ones that don't want to work) get into work? and if they refuse to work or help themselves, then what? I know they are a small percentage of the unemployed, what's the answer then? try and answer without graphs and charts this time!

[squidge]

After tea and bedtime!

[jacko]

Thinking Weezer would like to do to the pensioners what Hitler did to the Jews . exterminate them,??
I wonder what his views on OAP,s are when his time comes.

[golach]

Thinking Weezer would like to do to the pensioners what Hitler did to the Jews . exterminate them,??
I wonder what his views on OAP,s are when his time comes.

Ignore the troll

[Alrock]

4.6% of JSA expenditure is caused by fraud...

Any idea what that equates to money wise & how that compares to how much is "saved" through the fraudulent use of sanctions?

[weezer 316]

Thinking Weezer would like to do to the pensioners what Hitler did to the Jews . exterminate them,??
I wonder what his views on OAP,s are when his time comes.

Yeah execute the lot of them......clearly I am advocating that. Just cant deal with the issue at hand without making stuff up some of you lot.

Care to justify why Im never gonna see a state pension and Im saddled with debt for the baby boomers, many of whom coudlnt think far enough ahead to pay enough to keep themselves in retirement, all the while attempting to provide a pension for myself? Its a clear cut case mate. Work your ENTIRE life and still don't have your own pension?

And there are people now who cant get a house because you lot own them all and decided you coudlnt be be bothered building more, and these same people are losing their jobs from cuts in the public sector for debts YOU lot ran up to sustain a benefit system that means you can watch things like BBC1 for free.

Utter joke. Nothing we can really do about it now but like I say, I would abolish the state pension or we agree to raise NI to an amount that rises year on year as pension costs rise. But that will never be agreed so it would be easier to abolish it all together.

[Big Gaz]

i'm concerned by the facts about the benefit fraud. The govt give figures on how much is being defrauded so they must know who is doing it but why on earth aren't they reeling the fraudsters in and getting the cash back?

[jacko]

Ignore the troll

yes Golach , your right.

[squidge]

Any idea what that equates to money wise & how that compares to how much is "saved" through the fraudulent use of sanctions?

Well the JSA Figure is fraud and error - they dont split it up but it equates to £220m. Sanctions are a difficult one to quantify especially as the Government utterly fail to admit there are targets for sanctions but make no mistake there are.
League tables, targets both personal and organisational targets. There have been many leaks and many reports of people being sanctioned harshly and unethically - whether these are fraudulent it is hard to establish. If you bear in mind also that the government changed the law retrospectively so that they avoided a court judgement. I dont understand how that is legal but it strikes me as thoroughly immoral.

[squidge]

great work. but all that aside, how would you help the long term unemployed (the ones that don't want to work) get into work? and if they refuse to work or help themselves, then what? I know they are a small percentage of the unemployed, what's the answer then? try and answer without graphs and charts this time!

You seemed to need the charts and graphs as you clearly didnt understand without them.

Firstly there is only really one answer to lowering the out of work benefits bill and that is for there to be more jobs. Its not rocket science - it times when there is good economic growth and plenty of jobs, unemployment falls. More jobs impacts not only on JSA costs but on ESA and Incapacity payments as well. If there are plenty of jobs then employers will need to be more inclusive in their recruitment, they will be more inclined to be flexible to accomodate those people who have additional support needs and therefore people with disabilities or health problems are more likely to be able to find a job which will be suitable for their abilities.

Secondly the attitude to Benefit recipients needs to change at a Government and individual basis. Sanctions do not persuade people to find work they simply punish them for being unemployed. There absolutely needs to be sanctions but they should be a last resort not a first action. Change the focus of the staff dealing with those claiming benefits from sanctions and punishment to support and encouragement to work and you will see that the number of people finding jobs will increase.

You need a comprehensive programme for school leavers which doesnt focus simply on those who are going to university or who are academically bright but on those for whom semi skilled or unskilled work is likely to be their starting point. A QUALITY programme.You can call it an apprenticeship if you like but it need not be in traditional industries. You need realistic careers advice which looks at whats available locally and gives people REAL options. You need good quality FE colleges with courses that support the local labour market. This will help to prevent long term youth unemployment.

Next you need a programme for those who are struggling to find work which looks at the underlying reasons for their unemployment. This should be tailored to the needs of the individual and help them to overcome the problems that someone who has not worked for some considerable time may have which prevent them being able to re enter the labour market.

These programmes should only be delivered by public sector organisations or charities or not for profit companies. There should be NO OPPORTUNITY for business like A4e to make money out of the misery of individuals.

There should be Fraud officers and systems that speak to each other to ensure that the opportunity for committing Fraud is reduced. Big Gaz asked why there is not enough done about it - well thats perhaps because Fraud is such a small part of the system that they dont really care enough to resource it properly.

In nearly thirty years of working with people on various benefits I have only met a very few who were seriously and coldly playing the system. I had no worries about sanctions being applied in any of those cases. However I met loads of people who appeared to be playing the system and yet, when you put in work and effort and imagination even those people who seemed to be this way found work. Dealing with the underlying issues they kept hidden often from themselves as much as anyone else meant many people found a way into work that they would not have been able to do otherwise.

There may need to be a sort of community work programme too - not compulsory but which pays a living wage for people who cannot find work otherwise. It would need to have value and to move people along the way to employment but I am not sure how I would structure that. ANY work programme MUST pay a living wage. To do less treats people with contempt and as second class citizens and that is not acceptable.

The benefits system should also change somewhat - it has built in an incentive for people to commit fraud - why on earth do we pay people less for living together than we do for living apart? That doesn't make sense. The rate of benefit for couples should be the same as for two individiuals. Carer's allowance should be removed and carers should be paid a "wage" and considered as employment for the purposes of Tax credits - they save the country millions.

Above all - all these things must be accompanied by a sense that they are there to help and support people into work and out of poverty rather than to punish them for having to rely on benefits.

Hows that for starters? Because I havent even touched the support and help that should be there for those people who are sick or disabled and who RIGHT NOW are being denied their benefits because some ill equipped and ill informed or just plain stupid system says they are fit for work even whilst they are receiving chemotherapy, or even wilst they are in hospital or even whilst they have such complex needs that they cant tell you what day it is or retain information for more than two minutes. People who whilst already anxious sick disabled or suffering are then having their benefit stopped and having to wait months for an appeal which often reinstates that benefit. People who are committing suicide due to the utter hopelessness they feel or who are spending their last few weeks trying to get ready for an appeal which comes too late because they have died.

But then lets give them cards so they cant have fags or a drink - lets take their children off them because they cant love them or care properly for them and they certainly dont deserve them cos they are on benefits. Lets take their homes from them because they cant possibly deserve a roof over their head, lets charge them for an extra bedroom because they must be able to move and who cares if they have to live miles away from their families after all they are scroungers, skivers, workshy idlers playing the system and deserve our contempt. let them use the foodbanks after all its their own fault they cant manage their lives - most of them are just pretending anyways - we dont have poverty in Scotland [disgust] or maybe - just maybe we could do something different and look differently at people and think for one minute. Then we might just realise there but for the grace of god go I.

[Mrs Bradey]

YAWN !! it is you Squidge that appear not to understand the question! we are not talking about individuals that find it difficult to find work, and need to rely on benefits!! we are talking about the fraudsters taking benefits when they have no intention of ever working legitimately! thus bringing the honest decent folks on benefits into disrepute by association! most of what you say I agree with, but you have still to tell those of us, concerned about the problem, your answer.

[squidge]

The answers are above - the "fraudsters" would be dealt with by improved fraud investigations and systems paid for by not paying for the profits of private companies who do very little to move people back into work as I said above tadaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

As for my failure to understand anything......May I remind yet AGAIN of the questions that you started the thread with.


I watched a program on channel 4 last night '"Benefit Street" I was shocked but not surprised, what do orgers think may be the answer to sorting out the problem of fast breeding benefit cheats that are sucking the country dry? not willing to work or sort there lives out, but quite happy breeding children that the taxpayer has to clothe, feed and educate! occupying valuable housing in cities were people who work can't find housing! funding drug habits by shoplifting, theft, prostitution and mugging pensioners. is there a way that you think the government can ease this fast growing problem?

What I have tried to show you is that

1. The problem of
fast breeding benefit cheats that are sucking the country dry? is small and does not really exist in the way you suggested when you said it was a
fast growing problem

2.That your suggestion that
benefit cheats that are sucking the country dry? not willing to work or sort there lives out, but quite happy breeding childrendoes not exist in the way you suggest.

3.that where you said "in reality streets like this are not as uncommon as you might think" you were wrong.

4. That where you described all the things above as
this escalating problem you are mistaken

5. That where you describe people as
a waster you are not describing the vast majority of people on Benefits - even JSA

6. That there are very few people who are truly
terminally unemployable and that we have always had the tools to deal with people who are.

7. That there are other ways of getting people back to work than reducing benefits, paying them on some sort of card, sewing yellow stars on their clothes or viewing them as scum or wasters - in fact that by encouraging that attitude in people like you - the government and the media make it harder for people to find work and get off benefits.

Programmes like Benefit Street do not represent the reality of life on Benefit as you and it appears several others seem to think it does. It doesnt even appear to portray the reality of life on the street shown Benefit Street itself. It is a programme made and edited to pander to the prejudices of people who are too ignorant or lazy to look for the truth. What did I say about horses and water?

Equus Est.

[jacko]

Well I'm 30 on Friday, worked full time since was 17. What happens if I lse my job? Am I a scrounger, lower than low, scum of the earth?

Oh quite the burden you lot. Saddled us with heaps of debt for a start. The the fact you have worked your ENTIRE lives but still rely on teh state, all the while paying a pittance in national insurance. Furthermore, your as unhealthy a lot as can, obviously due to age at times, but also down to your vastly higher rates of smoking, drinking and complete lack of health and safety led many of you to being a far bigger burden on the state than you will ever admit. If you have worked all your life you can organise a pension yourself. God knows I do, no chance I am seeing a state pension and we have no money to invest anywhere it seems as Pensions and healthcare for on 60s eat up nearly half our budget.

First thing i would do is abolish the state pension and have a credit card like the benefit idea for pensioners who coudlnt pay their way. Apparently its OK to be a sponger and take way more than you ever gave if your old.

And please dont get upset about the generalizations here. Based on this thread its a speciality of you lot!
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .......
Well in the case of you becoming unemployed . you can do what i did. i chased work all over the country and abroad,
maybe i was lucky , I had certain skills, After i served my time at my trade i made a point of gathering new skills.
Thing is Weezer life is what you make , not what you lie down & accept. if this country dos nt do it for you.. try another .
If you dont like the tree s stay outta the forest. MOVE TO SURROUNDINGS BETTER SUITED TO YOUR NEEDS. ??

BUT I GUESS WITH YOUR ATTITUDE IN LIFE . YOUR STUCK . EITHER DO SOMETHING OR LIVE WITH IT??
the choice is alway s yours.


PS. Im through here no point arguing with a bigot.

[golach]

.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .......Well in the case of you becoming unemployed . you can do what i did. i chased work all over the country and abroad, maybe i was lucky , I had certain skills, After i served my time at my trade i made a point of gathering new skills.Thing is Weezer life is what you make , not what you lie down & accept. if this country dos nt do it for you.. try another .If you dont like the tree s stay outta the forest. MOVE TO SURROUNDINGS BETTER SUITED TO YOUR NEEDS. ??BUT I GUESS WITH YOUR ATTITUDE IN LIFE . YOUR STUCK . EITHER DO SOMETHING OR LIVE WITH IT??the choice is alway s yours.PS. Im through here no point arguing with a bigot.Hear hear Jacko, I did likewise, worked all over the world, changed careers more than once, moved away from home to find work too

[weezer 316]

.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .......
Well in the case of you becoming unemployed . you can do what i did. i chased work all over the country and abroad,
maybe i was lucky , I had certain skills, After i served my time at my trade i made a point of gathering new skills.
Thing is Weezer life is what you make , not what you lie down & accept. if this country dos nt do it for you.. try another .
If you dont like the tree s stay outta the forest. MOVE TO SURROUNDINGS BETTER SUITED TO YOUR NEEDS. ??

BUT I GUESS WITH YOUR ATTITUDE IN LIFE . YOUR STUCK . EITHER DO SOMETHING OR LIVE WITH IT??
the choice is alway s yours.


PS. Im through here no point arguing with a bigot.

Lol! A bigot. You either dont know what that means (in which case you shouldn't be using it) or your inventing things.

Lets say I lose my job. I choose to stay here and search for work. Should I be entitled to benefits or are you being 'bigoted' towards the unemployed? What if I dont have the means to travel to a city? What then? Your assertions are ludicrous in comparison to saying someone works for 55 YEARS AND CANT PROVIDE A PENSION FOR THEMSELVES!

I got a great attitude lad, Some of your generation would benefit from my outlook I dare say!

[jacko]

Lol! A bigot. You either dont know what that means (in which case you shouldn't be using it) or your inventing things.

Lets say I lose my job. I choose to stay here and search for work. Should I be entitled to benefits or are you being 'bigoted' towards the unemployed? What if I dont have the means to travel to a city? What then? Your assertions are ludicrous in comparison to saying someone works for 55 YEARS AND CANT PROVIDE A PENSION FOR THEMSELVES!

I got a great attitude lad, Some of your generation would benefit from my outlook I dare say!

big·ot noun \ˈbi-gət\ : a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc. : a bigoted person; especially : a person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group

[weezer 316]

OK so I'm not a bigot then haha! Why they hell did you call me one then!

No matter actually, call me what you want if it helps you avoid dealing with the issue at hand like the questions I posed

[Mrs Bradey]

The answers are above - the "fraudsters" would be dealt with by improved fraud investigations and systems paid for by not paying for the profits of private companies who do very little to move people back into work as I said above tadaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAs for my failure to understand anything......May I remind yet AGAIN of the questions that you started the thread with. What I have tried to show you is that 1. The problem of is small and does not really exist in the way you suggested when you said it was a 2.That your suggestion that does not exist in the way you suggest. 3.that where you said "in reality streets like this are not as uncommon as you might think" you were wrong.4. That where you described all the things above as you are mistaken5. That where you describe people as you are not describing the vast majority of people on Benefits - even JSA6. That there are very few people who are truly and that we have always had the tools to deal with people who are. 7. That there are other ways of getting people back to work than reducing benefits, paying them on some sort of card, sewing yellow stars on their clothes or viewing them as scum or wasters - in fact that by encouraging that attitude in people like you - the government and the media make it harder for people to find work and get off benefits. Programmes like Benefit Street do not represent the reality of life on Benefit as you and it appears several others seem to think it does. It doesnt even appear to portray the reality of life on the street shown Benefit Street itself. It is a programme made and edited to pander to the prejudices of people who are too ignorant or lazy to look for the truth. What did I say about horses and water?Equus Est.OK Maybe "sucking the country dry" is a bit strong it was a metaphor,not to be taken literally, but intended to be provocative! in answer to your numbered points (excuse the rambling layout working on phone) .............1. they ( the wasters ) are breeding fast. a lot faster than ( what I would call ) decent people, who would have 1,2 or even 3 children, (not that anyone who decides to have more cannot be decent also ) The problem may not be massive but it exists.............. 2. covered in point 1. ..............3. I don't think I'm wrong, I have seen many streets like this on my travels. .............4. I am not mistaken! it can be described in no other way than escalating ie, the problem is getting bigger. the population is adjusting, as can be seen being discussed in other .org threads! ........... 5. I agree, and as I printed out previously, it does not describe the vast majority of JSA claimants! ........... 6. what are these tools (brief answer please ) ........... 7. it is not about getting people back to work!!! these people have never worked and don't want either!! ...............I don't think the programme showed anything like what life is like on benefits! it is well edited to show what life is like to be a waster! I started this thread looking for heated debate , and to see if there is an answer as I am !concerned!!!! that's all. not all those shown shown are portrayed as wasters !!

[Alrock]

I don't think the programme showed anything like what life is like on benefits! it is well edited to show what life is like to be a waster!

No... It is well edited to demonize those on benefits... It was after all, called "Benefit Street" not "Waster Street"

[Mrs Bradey]

No... It is well edited to demonize those on benefits... It was after all, called "Benefit Street" not "Waster Street"you do have a point.

[squidge]

but intended to be provocative! What REALLY???? but surely people dont do that? And yet you seem to think the media and the government arent being provocative.


1. they ( the wasters ) are breeding fast. a lot faster than ( what I would call ) decent people, who would have 1,2 or even 3 children, (not that anyone who decides to have more cannot be decent also ) The problem may not be massive but it exists..............

What??? So people who YOU approve of can have as many children as they like and still be decent. Does that include me Mrs Bradey? I have five children. I have spent time as a single parent and I have been on benefits. In fact I didnt work for five years, Was I a waster then? My husband is on the sick at the moment is he a waster - if he is still on the sick in five years will he be a waster then? Would we also need to worry about having our children taken into care because we have five and we would be on benefits? have I ever been a waster? Am I decent? How do I make sure that I meet your arbitrary criteria for being a decent person? Is a waster always a waster their whole lives or can they stop being a waster and then if they stop being a waster surely they werent ever a waster in the first place. What a ridiculously useless word that is - a ridiculous label and a ridiculous was to describe a person. IT is utterly meaningless except as a word which makes those using it feel righteously superior.


2. covered in point 1.

There is no evidence that people on benefits are having children any faster than people who are not on benefits and no evidence that benefits act as a spur for people to have more children. I already linked to that evidence. There is more and you could find it if you chose to look ....


3. I don't think I'm wrong, I have seen many streets like this on my travels. Streets like what? Full of wasters? Well we have already seen what that term means - utterly nothing.


4. I am not mistaken! it can be described in no other way than escalating ie, the problem is getting bigger. the population is adjusting, as can be seen being discussed in other .org threads!
Where is your evidence that this is escalating and which bit does "this" refer to? I have asked you for evidence of what you say and you have not given me any.... I have shown you research that shows there is no evidence that people on benefits are having more children than people not on benefits. The population is falling and the average number of children in a family has been steadily falling so what is escalating? Long term unemployment? Well that maybe rising - jobs have been scarce and the programme the Government is using to try to help people into work is failing..... although it is putting money in the pockets of private companies..... so maybe thats the governments criteria for success...



5. I agree, and as I printed out previously, it does not describe the vast majority of JSA claimants! So how many DO you think are "wasters" what percentage and where do you get that evidence from?


6. what are these tools (brief answer please ) Sanctions, disallowances, Actively seeking work rules, Availability rules, restricted availability rules, Fail to attend rules, Jobseeker direction rules, Refusal of Employment rules, These have been available for years and years - in fact most of these powers have been in place since JSA replaced Unemployment Benefit and many were available to be used before that. The difference is that since 1997 the focus was on finding people work not punishing them. Since 2010 they have been used as a massive big stick and people have been beaten with them in a completely unfair and arbitrary way.


7. it is not about getting people back to work!!! these people have never worked and don't want either!! Says you.And from what - watching some programme on the telly? 2 hours worth of footage edited to "be provocative". Reading the papers and buying wholeheartedly into the idea that those in receipt of benefit are only worthy of our contempt and poking with a metaphorical stick. You have clearly demonstrated prejudice and ignorance in these posts and I can only hope that you are being deliberately "provocative" and really can see that you are wrong on almost everything you say.

I have seen people after people after people find work and stay in work that you would have labelled "wasters" which sort of suggests they werent wasters after all.....


I don't think the programme showed anything like what life is like on benefits! it is well edited to show what life is like to be a waster! I started this thread looking for heated debate , and to see if there is an answer as I am !concerned!!!! that's all. not all those shown shown are portrayed as wasters !!

I think Alrock answered that point already.

[squidge]

you do have a point. Halleluya........ is the penny starting to drop?

[Mrs Bradey]

Halleluya........ is the penny starting to drop? maybe I should have started this thread by saying " watched a programme last night - was about a street where lots of lovely people lived - they spent days standing outside there lovely homes - drinking champagne out of special brew cans - dumping their rubbish all over the place in silken sacks - shouting and screaming pleasantries at their lovely children - awaiting a lovely visit from the nice mister drug dealer "..........I hope all these lovely lovely people come and live on my street ! or better still (I don't want to be spoiled ) yours.!

[RagnarRocks]

It must be nice to live such a cosseted existence that you never come across people like those on benefit street alas whilst many honest hard working people find themselves on benefits of one sort or another there will always be a feckless minority who play the system for all its worth or have no intention of living a decent lifestyle. Having rubbish all over the street is nothing to do with benefits its about self esteem or lack of it. Drug dealers are the scourge of every town up and down these fair isles. You can blame everyone else but at the end of the day I've seen people in many countries with an awful lot less than those people who still manage to conduct themselves more civilly.

[squidge]

Oh Mrs Bradey!!!!!! What you should have done is use what God gave you and THOUGHT about what you were watching.and realised it is as typical of real life as East Enders or Corrie. What you did was to repeat the lies half truths and utter rubbish that people are fed through the media and this dreadful government. Whether you mean to do so or not, every time you and others support this absolute rubbish you make it harder for people to get into work and get off benefits, every time people are deluded enough to swallow this rubbish and use words like wasters, scum and layabouts it is harder for people to hold their heads up as they feel the shame and desperation that often accompanies long term sickness and unemployment.
As for living on MY street.... why do you assume that I havent been there and bought the blasted tshirt?

Ragnar, you are right a minority and as the research shows a tiny one at that. Benefit recipients are not always criminals. Drug dealers are not always benefit cheats What is true is that areas of deprivation, high in the number of workless households, high in the number of sickness claims are often high in crime and drug problems. We could debate cause and effect if you lije but it does not follow that if you are on benefits you are more llikely to be a criminal.

[RagnarRocks]

Reality is when I lived south of the border I've met people like that and when away from the social workers etc they laugh and joke about how they pull the wool over their eyes tell them what they want to hear to maximise their benefits and of course the soppy social workers swallow it hook line and sinker. The bad backs depression so much of it made up almost like their is a scammers handbook they refer to. The minority is bigger than you think they are just very adept at playing the system.

[Mrs Bradey]

Reality is when I lived south of the border I've met people like that and when away from the social workers etc they laugh and joke about how they pull the wool over their eyes tell them what they want to hear to maximise their benefits and of course the soppy social workers swallow it hook line and sinker. The bad backs depression so much of it made up almost like their is a scammers handbook they refer to. The minority is bigger than you think they are just very adept at playing the system.well said ranger!! Oops ragnar .

[Mrs Bradey]

Oh Mrs Bradey!!!!!! What you should have done is use what God gave you and THOUGHT about what you were watching.and realised it is as typical of real life as East Enders or Corrie. What you did was to repeat the lies half truths and utter rubbish that people are fed through the media and this dreadful government. Whether you mean to do so or not, every time you and others support this absolute rubbish you make it harder for people to get into work and get off benefits, every time people are deluded enough to swallow this rubbish and use words like wasters, scum and layabouts it is harder for people to hold their heads up as they feel the shame and desperation that often accompanies long term sickness and unemployment. As for living on MY street.... why do you assume that I havent been there and bought the blasted tshirt?Ragnar, you are right a minority and as the research shows a tiny one at that. Benefit recipients are not always criminals. Drug dealers are not always benefit cheats What is true is that areas of deprivation, high in the number of workless households, high in the number of sickness claims are often high in crime and drug problems. We could debate cause and effect if you lije but it does not follow that if you are on benefits you are more llikely to be a criminal. listen at you miss high and mighty!! What I think has nothing to do with an imaginary being in the sky for a start!! There are more of these people than you think, and as ragnar suggests , they are pulling the wool over the eyes of people like YOU! .. .. .. For your information I have worn the tee shirt ! I have not lived in but have spent many nights on streets like this , with people ,who at the time I thought friends! I have witnessed (first hand ) children aged 9 or 10 being sent out at 3am to score drugs by their parents! The children wearing filthy soiled clothes on their errand to score with benefit money that should be feeding them! These people are scum and most will stay scum forever, however if there is an answer I would like to know what it is ! Because I may be to late for the scum waster parents, but the children might be saved!!!! it does not matter how small the problem is! Its not a red wine stain in your axminster you can cover with your puffé!!! I was unemployed and on benefit, then I woke up and smelt the coffee! I slept rough in parks whilst travelling looking for work! Oh yes I've got the tee shirt!!!! Have you?

[kosacid]

i watched it the other night seem they are trying to tell immigrants not to come here or they end up on the streets with no money to get back, working for some sort of gang leaders who going to kill them if they don't work, take it the bill boards didn't work so they put the message on the tv lol

[squidge]

High and mighty? Fine .... all I am going to say about that is that I am not the one that places myself above others.

I am shortly to be fifty. I have a happy life but it has not always been that way. I have pointed out the way in which you are wrong in my opinion. If younwant to trade personal insults on ya go but I am not playing that game.

[Thumper]

listen at you miss high and mighty!! What I think has nothing to do with an imaginary being in the sky for a start!! There are more of these people than you think, and as ragnar suggests , they are pulling the wool over the eyes of people like YOU! .. .. .. For your information I have worn the tee shirt ! I have not lived in but have spent many nights on streets like this , with people ,who at the time I thought friends! I have witnessed (first hand ) children aged 9 or 10 being sent out at 3am to score drugs by their parents! The children wearing filthy soiled clothes on their errand to score with benefit money that should be feeding them! These people are scum and most will stay scum forever, however if there is an answer I would like to know what it is ! Because I may be to late for the scum waster parents, but the children might be saved!!!! it does not matter how small the problem is! Its not a red wine stain in your axminster you can cover with your puffé!!! I was unemployed and on benefit, then I woke up and smelt the coffee! I slept rough in parks whilst travelling looking for work! Oh yes I've got the tee shirt!!!! Have you?So by this recent post of yours you are saying all benefit recipients are on drugs? They all send kids out to buy drugs? Why didn't you report these people there and then? No matter if I thought they were friends or not I would not stand by and watch them take drugs,buy drugs,or use their kids to go pick it up! You said you slept rough while looking for work? Total respect to you for having that commitment, can someone with say 3 kids sleep rough with them to find work? If so when they find work will they get help to move to that area? What if they then get paid off and back onto benefits because there are no jobs available in their new area,does that make the scroungers again? Then they are stuck somewhere with no money,no family and no friends but hey at least they aren't NIMBYS then! The point is screaming and shouting and calling every one scroungers does not do anything to help,those who reap the rewards of mocking the system still will,while posts like MOST on here just makes this'd who have a genuine need feel even more worthless. I would be ashamed to be seen as someone who is so narrow minded,bigoted and blinkered! X

[Mrs Bradey]

So by this recent post of yours you are saying all benefit recipients are on drugs? They all send kids out to buy drugs? Why didn't you report these people there and then? No matter if I thought they were friends or not I would not stand by and watch them take drugs,buy drugs,or use their kids to go pick it up! You said you slept rough while looking for work? Total respect to you for having that commitment, can someone with say 3 kids sleep rough with them to find work? If so when they find work will they get help to move to that area? What if they then get paid off and back onto benefits because there are no jobs available in their new area,does that make the scroungers again? Then they are stuck somewhere with no money,no family and no friends but hey at least they aren't NIMBYS then! The point is screaming and shouting and calling every one scroungers does not do anything to help,those who reap the rewards of mocking the system still will,while posts like MOST on here just makes this'd who have a genuine need feel even more worthless. I would be ashamed to be seen as someone who is so narrow minded,bigoted and blinkered! X I have never said everyone on benefits is on drugs! or that all those on drugs use their children as mules! I have never said all people on benefit JSA etc are scroungers or wasters! Having children is a life choice, and as consequence makes it harder to find work.!! These people were never my friends, I was in a very dark likely place at this time! I have by no means lead a sheltered life,and will say no more on the subject ( my life that is)!

[Mrs Bradey]

High and mighty? Fine .... all I am going to say about that is that I am not the one that places myself above others. I am shortly to be fifty. I have a happy life but it has not always been that way. I have pointed out the way in which you are wrong in my opinion. If younwant to trade personal insults on ya go but I am not playing that game.me too! I don't think I insulted you, it was definitely not my intention! I'm done!

[katarina]

I reckon the easiest option is to limit child benefit, tax credits, etc. to 2 children? Would make a few think twice about adding more to their brood I'm sure.

The thing is, it's not the child's fault. And don't forget there are many genuine cases out there that are on benifits through no fault of their own, and are desperate to get a job. That program only shows the dregs. There should be more balance. Having said that I never did think money should be doled out for doing nothing. There are plenty community jobs that would keep the scroungers busy.

[jacko]

Bleeding this country dry eh.......

Only one benefit claiming mob are bleeding this country dry and it aint the mob in benefit street or the immigrants, its the pensioners! £82bn at the last count, more than half the benefits budget. Jobseekers allowance and income support account for a measly 11bn

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8dY-3hzSftCMng5TFBkaFdSb3M/edit?pli=1

.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .........
Exciting new Programme:








You're a sick senior citizen and the government says they are going



to sell your house to pay for your nursing care. So what do you do?








Our plan gives anyone 65 years or older a gun and 4 bullets. You are allowed to shoot




four Politicians.

Of course, this means you will be sent to prison..... where you will get three meals a day,



a roof over your head, central heating, air conditioning and all the health care you need!

Need new teeth? No problem. Need glasses? That’s great. Need a new hip, knees, kidney,



lungs or heart? They’re all covered.

As an added bonus, your kids can come and visit you as often as they do now.

And who will be paying for all of this? It’s the same government that just told you that they cannot afford to pay for your nursing care.

And you can get rid of 4 useless politicians while you are at it.

Plus, because you are a prisoner you don't have to pay income tax.




Is this a great country or what ?!!!!!!!!!!!

[cesare]

me too! I don't think I insulted you, it was definitely not my intention! I'm done!
You shouldn't of started!, Honestly your opinion manifested into Hatred , Trollism , Ignorance, I Personally think you are in a different planet..maybe you should cut down on your meds and get out more

[Mrs Bradey]

You shouldn't of started!, Honestly your opinion manifested into Hatred , Trollism , Ignorance, I Personally think you are in a different planet..maybe you should cut down on your meds and get out moreI don't hate anyone! Why should I not have started? What planet do you think I'm on? If I'm a troll for having an opinion then so be it, there are many worse than I on the org including yourself. As clearly you have only posted to have a go at the bunfight!! It is yourself cesare that is insulting me with reference to my being on or requiring medication.... Happy orging TROLL!!

[linnie612]

Why should I not have started?

Because your 'question'


I watched a program on channel 4 last night '"Benefit Street" I was shocked but not surprised, what do orgers think may be the answer to sorting out the problem of fast breeding benefit cheats that are sucking the country dry? not willing to work or sort there lives out, but quite happy breeding children that the taxpayer has to clothe, feed and educate! occupying valuable housing in cities were people who work can't find housing! funding drug habits by shoplifting, theft, prostitution and mugging pensioners. is there a way that you think the government can ease this fast growing problem?

was disingenuous.......

[Mrs Bradey]

Because your 'question'was disingenuous.......which one? ......What do orgers think may be the answer to sorting out the problem of fast breeding benefit cheats that are sucking the country dry ? ....Or ..... Is there a way that you think the government can ease this fast growing problem? ....both are genuine questions and many orgers have tried to answer them and given their opinion, as I have ! What your answer?

[linnie612]

which one? ......What do orgers think may be the answer to sorting out the problem of fast breeding benefit cheats that are sucking the country dry ? ....Or ..... Is there a way that you think the government can ease this fast growing problem? ....both are genuine questions and many orgers have tried to answer them and given their opinion, as I have ! What your answer?

I found your 'question(s)' disingenuous in that I don't believe you were expecting informed answers to what you say you believe to be 'a fast growing problem'. I therefore have no answer for you. I am sure you are a harmless enough bloke, but there are plenty of people who take this kind of 'red top' nonsense seriously, and therein the problem lies ...

[Mrs Bradey]

I found your 'question(s)' disingenuous in that I don't believe you were expecting informed answers to what you say you believe to be 'a fast growing problem'. I therefore have no answer for you. I am sure you are a harmless enough bloke, but there are plenty of people who take this kind of 'red top' nonsense seriously, and therein the problem lies ...fair enough! You believe what you want. This problem IS going to get worse as others are not breeding as much and many people are opting out of parenthood all together. You are wrong as I would love to see a solution to a problem that could potentially (far fetched I admit) bring the world to its knees! But if there is no answer - so be it !

[squidge]

fair enough! You believe what you want. This problem IS going to get worse as others are not breeding as much and many people are opting out of parenthood all together. You are wrong as I would love to see a solution to a problem that could potentially (far fetched I admit) bring the world to its knees! But if there is no answer - so be it !

The answer is that you are wrong there is no evidence to suggest that people on benefits are "breeding" faster or having more children than people who are not on benefits. Again - where is your evidence to support your assertion.In fact the 2011 census shows that where there are families with more than three children - nine out of ten of those families have one or both parents in work.

It appears that families are getting smaller as the percentage of families who have one dependent child has increased by five percentage points, from 42% in 1996 to 47% in 2012. Meanwhile the percentage of families with three or more has decreased by three percentage points to 14%.

Even births to teenage mothers have fallen 8% in the year to march 2013 - thats a bit of a crude measure - it includes mothers aged from 13 to 19. In addition less than 2% of single parents are teenagers and the average age of single parents is around 38. In 1998 24% of families were single parent families and in 2011 this was 26%. So no fast breeding programme there either.

So..... who is "breeding" more if most larger families are in work and the majority of single parent families are not teenagers, the number of families with more than three children is decreasing and teenage pregnancy numbers arent increasing?

These are ONS statistics and Census results.

[Alrock]

fair enough! You believe what you want. This problem IS going to get worse as others are not breeding as much and many people are opting out of parenthood all together. You are wrong as I would love to see a solution to a problem that could potentially (far fetched I admit) bring the world to its knees! But if there is no answer - so be it !

Have you been watching "Idiocracy" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiocracy)?

[RagnarRocks]

So many bridges,so many trolls, life's a drug, or is that drag,mon dieu give me another hit of caffeine and send me a benefits cheque please :0))

[Mrs Bradey]

Have you been watching "Idiocracy" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiocracy)? no I haven't, but it does look quite amusing.

[Mrs Bradey]

So many bridges,so many trolls, life's a drug, or is that drag,mon dieu give me another hit of caffeine and send me a benefits cheque please :0))send the billy goats in! Think ill vote yes for independence! Not for Scotland for me and my opinion!!

[RagnarRocks]

send the billy goats in! Think ill vote yes for independence! Not for Scotland for me and my opinion!!Now you do realise that if you're going for the troll vote freedom of thought and expression are expressly forbidden. I suggest you queue outside the benefits office and hope you don't get turned to stone by the turgid waft of mind numbing political correctness that emanates from the bowels of the establishment :0)) trip trap trip trap

[linnie612]

So many bridges,so many trolls, life's a drug, or is that drag,mon dieu give me another hit of caffeine and send me a benefits cheque please :0))

The opening 'question' (in question) would appear to be an example of trolling.

[RagnarRocks]

The opening 'question' (in question) would appear to be an example of trolling.

Well I've checked under a few bridges, spoken to the rep for Jotunn Trolls of Caithness Union apparently the question in question is just a question and there's no question about it.
He suggests standing you get Mrs Bradey to walk in the sunlight to definitively prove she has no troll blood or affiliations. He also demands your wife if you've been married for more than twelve years and a bag of gold for all his efforts.
These Trolls are very demanding creatures you know and easily upset :0))

[Mrs Bradey]

Well I've checked under a few bridges, spoken to the rep for Jotunn Trolls of Caithness Union apparently the question in question is just a question and there's no question about it. He suggests standing you get Mrs Bradey to walk in the sunlight to definitively prove she has no troll blood or affiliations. He also demands your wife if you've been married for more than twelve years and a bag of gold for all his efforts. These Trolls are very demanding creatures you know and easily upset :0))I'll be alright I've got factor 6000 ! And I'll put it on twice!!!

[Moira]

I found your 'question(s)' disingenuous in that I don't believe you were expecting informed answers to what you say you believe to be 'a fast growing problem'. I therefore have no answer for you. I am sure you are a harmless enough bloke, but there are plenty of people who take this kind of 'red top' nonsense seriously, and therein the problem lies ...

Couldn't agree more.

Anyone who abuses the exclamation mark deserves to be ignored!!
Oops!! It must be catching......!!

[Big Gaz]

I'll be alright I've got factor 6000 ! And I'll put it on twice!!!

You planning on auditioning for the part of Raven/Mystique in the next X-Men movie then? [smirk]

[linnie612]

Well I've checked under a few bridges, spoken to the rep for Jotunn Trolls of Caithness Union apparently the question in question is just a question and there's no question about it.
He suggests standing you get Mrs Bradey to walk in the sunlight to definitively prove she has no troll blood or affiliations. He also demands your wife if you've been married for more than twelve years and a bag of gold for all his efforts.
These Trolls are very demanding creatures you know and easily upset :0))


I'll be alright I've got factor 6000 ! And I'll put it on twice!!!


Couldn't agree more.

Anyone who abuses the exclamation mark deserves to be ignored!!
Oops!! It must be catching......!!

[lol] all round!!! :D

[Southern-Gal]

Not read the thread at all but have you all read this before you put forward your opinion?

http://www.theguardian.com/housing-network/2014/jan/17/benefits-street-things-you-should-know-myths-birmingham

[orkneycadian]

I haven't seen this programme, and have not a lot of desire to. But I have gone as far as Googling it, particularly the images in Google. Sometimes a picture says a thousand words.... And cuts across all the predjudices.

For example, one aerial picture, allegedly of this street shows every back garden about knee deep in grass and rubbish. Now, if everyone is supposedly willing to work, hard working and not on the scrounge, why do none of the gardens appear to be kept and cultivated? With all that time on their hands through being Jobseekers, and food being "so expensive", where are all the vegetable plots?

Pulling out ones finger and taking account of oneself is the same no matter if you are black, white, pink or yellow - 27th generation English or newly arrived immigrant.

Or is it just too easy to sit back and let someone else sort out your dinner for you, whether it be from the local takeaway, Tesco's or the Food Bank?

[Mrs Bradey]

I haven't seen this programme, and have not a lot of desire to. But I have gone as far as Googling it, particularly the images in Google. Sometimes a picture says a thousand words.... And cuts across all the predjudices.For example, one aerial picture, allegedly of this street shows every back garden about knee deep in grass and rubbish. Now, if everyone is supposedly willing to work, hard working and not on the scrounge, why do none of the gardens appear to be kept and cultivated? With all that time on their hands through being Jobseekers, and food being "so expensive", where are all the vegetable plots? Pulling out ones finger and taking account of oneself is the same no matter if you are black, white, pink or yellow - 27th generation English or newly arrived immigrant.Or is it just too easy to sit back and let someone else sort out your dinner for you, whether it be from the local takeaway, Tesco's or the Food Bank? I very much agree. Mr bradey and myself save a lot by growing our own veg we estimate a couple of hundred quid per annum!!

[orkneycadian]

Even Tesco's do seed tatties, according to their website. £4.49 for 2.5 kilos. Should be enough to yield about a hundredweight. An awful lot better value for the "down on his/her luck" street resident than buying 2 kilos of eating tatties at the same Tesco's for £2.

[RagnarRocks]

I've always grown fruit and vegetables not only does it save a lot of money its a good way of keeping healthy

[Mrs Bradey]

I've always grown fruit and vegetables not only does it save a lot of money its a good way of keeping healthymaybe on tonights episode! the "government" will explain, that the whole programme was an elaborate hoax! apologise to all the participants and double up their giros for a few weeks.

[orkneycadian]

Maybe what is needed is a Garden Tax. If you are provided with a house, courtesy of the taxpayer, and it has a garden that is used for nothing more than the Divil Dug to do its business in, perhaps you should downsize to a gardenless house, and let someone who is in need of a garden, use it to grow their dinner in. Or else, have a cut in benefits. One way or another, that will help with the benefits bill - The occupants with no interest in gardening would be able to occupy a smaller abode, maybe on the 10th floor, with no need to "worry" about the state of the garden, whilst a new family, maybe finding it hard to get by with food prices as they are, can make use of the garden to supplement what they can afford to buy. A win-win situation. Unless you are a Divil Dug of course....

Other benefits would be the new occupants finding it easier to get work. Writing as a hobby on a CV or application form - "Growing food in the garden for the table" would impress a prospective employer an awful lot more than "Playstation" or "Smoking"

[Southern-Gal]

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l269/dona_10/1013358_10153731360595052_201077024_n_zpsb7695716. jpg (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/dona_10/media/1013358_10153731360595052_201077024_n_zpsb7695716. jpg.html)

What about other 'parasites'?

We are all parasites in one way or another.

[Mrs Bradey]

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l269/dona_10/1013358_10153731360595052_201077024_n_zpsb7695716. jpg (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/dona_10/media/1013358_10153731360595052_201077024_n_zpsb7695716. jpg.html) What about other 'parasites'?We are all parasites in one way or another. I see from your link that 16 bn goes unclaimed! Why don't the government get in touch with those who it should be going to. After all the must know who it should be going to, if not how do they work out 16bn is unclaimed?

[RagnarRocks]

I see from your link that 16 bn goes unclaimed! Why don't the government get in touch with those who it should be going to. After all the must know who it should be going to, if not how do they work out 16bn is unclaimed?Because that would require the people who work in those various depts to actually do some work instead of bleating how hard done by they are before they retire early and draw their very nice pensions.

[Southern-Gal]

Just looking to add some balance :)

[Big Gaz]

I see from your link that 16 bn goes unclaimed! Why don't the government get in touch with those who it should be going to. After all the must know who it should be going to, if not how do they work out 16bn is unclaimed?

Years ago there used to be a handbook for the benefit advisors. This outlined everything you were entitled to and the situation then was "if you don't ask, you don't get". If you did ask, the reply was "how do you know about that?".. My mate who was living with his parents in a council house was told by his parents that they were retiring early and leaving the area and didn't invite him to join them so he applied for the council house for himself which he was given and spoke to benefits for a decorating grant and one to furnish it with necessities. Back then it was a common thing and everyone usually got something but he got knocked back for both and given just a bed from remploy and a cooker from the local refurb place (his parents knew they were going and took everything and spent nothing on decoration over the previous few years) The council later gave him a chit to spend at a local wallpaper/paint shop so that sorted him for decorating but he was pretty teed off about not getting the grant for furniture basics etc when everyone else was getting one so took it to a solicitor who went to town on the benefit claim refusal and quoted the above mentioned handbook. End result was (i can only remember a few absurd items) £22 for a table and a chair (where do you buy a table with 1 chair?) £3 for shades and light bulbs, £13 for a cruet set...yes! a cruet set. He also got money for a milk jug and spoon, toast rack, cutlery, crockery, washing machine, fridge, steam iron & table and the list went on and on....3 full A4 pages.... coming to a grand total of over £1400! He got virtually everything that he was "entitled" to in that handbook because the solicitor asked for it all, word-for-word and attached the copies of the relevant pages of the handbook to the claim. Only things he didn't get were items that were female only and some items that were necessary for a household with a child/children. He furnished the house top to bottom, carpeted the lot, painted and decorated and bought everything on the list new, but mostly cheaper and he actually ended up with almost £300 over but as he was given the cash as a grant and didn't have to repay it as long as he bought what was on the list and had receipts to prove he had bought the items, he was fine. That book was no longer "available" to others who had heard about the claim and i'm certain the story was also in the local paper, leading to a rush in similar claims.
Far cry from nowadays eh!

[Mrs Bradey]

Have heard of the table and one chair before, this was on a tv programme some time ago . It was granted to a freshly released prisoner, his parole or probation officer would presumably stand when visiting! Maybe they carry around a folding chair?!

[rob murray]

Not read the thread at all but have you all read this before you put forward your opinion?

http://www.theguardian.com/housing-network/2014/jan/17/benefits-street-things-you-should-know-myths-birmingham

I notice no one has made any mention to your url as above, could it be the words : Guardian / myths.... that push people away ? You know, the angry people, the type that live in a world of soup and want only to use a fork !

[squidge]

Or is it just too easy to sit back and let someone else sort out your dinner for you, whether it be from the local takeaway, Tesco's or the Food Bank?

This is an extract from an article I read today


I met a woman with cancer at the Glasgow North West foodbank. The government had dismissed medical opinion and insisted that she was fit to work. Hers is a story so horrendous that it requires a hefty leap of the mind to try to catch even a sliver of what she had gone through. Imagine it: to be diagnosed with stomach cancer, stricken with inflamed kidneys and high blood pressure that turns the backs of your legs a deep, worrying red. Depression naturally follows. Then you have to attend a meeting with a benefits adviser to be told – after little more than a glance and a sneer – that you’re actually quite healthy, now take your cancer pills, your inhaler and your stick and go out and get a damn job. Imagine that sheaves of medical evidence and the opinion of a team of specialist doctors means nothing. A government jobsworth can undo it all with the stroke of a cheap biro. Imagine getting up each morning, with the hideous weight of cancer pressing on you, lifting your crimson, trembling legs out of bed, knowing that there’s no money in your purse and that the fridge is full of nothing but white light.



Aye - dig your garden right enough! :roll:

[Oddquine]

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l269/dona_10/1013358_10153731360595052_201077024_n_zpsb7695716. jpg (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/dona_10/media/1013358_10153731360595052_201077024_n_zpsb7695716. jpg.html)

What about other 'parasites'?

We are all parasites in one way or another.

If you are on the org, you would focus on the benefit fraud one..by a country mile!

I can see the point of punters whining about folk on benefits if they weren't picking up benefits like tax credits, pension credits, winter heating allowances, cold weather payments, child benefits, housing benefit, council tax rebates etc...but there are relatively few who don't take something out of the system.

I wonder how many who whine at everything which turns up on "reality" telly and on the likes of the Daily Fail, which chimes with their views of everyone but themselves, actually pick up the phone and report neighbours who are defrauding the system? I know I don't....not because it doesn't annoy me......but because it is the fault of a system which 66 years on from its inception hasn't worked out how to stop people finding the glaring loopholes they always manage to find....and that goes for the tax avoiders as well as those who get benefits. If a highly paid Government with a lot of highly paid advisors and employees can't be bothered to set up a system which works.....why blame the punters who take advantage of their ineptitude?

[Oddquine]

I haven't seen this programme, and have not a lot of desire to. But I have gone as far as Googling it, particularly the images in Google. Sometimes a picture says a thousand words.... And cuts across all the predjudices.

For example, one aerial picture, allegedly of this street shows every back garden about knee deep in grass and rubbish. Now, if everyone is supposedly willing to work, hard working and not on the scrounge, why do none of the gardens appear to be kept and cultivated? With all that time on their hands through being Jobseekers, and food being "so expensive", where are all the vegetable plots?

Pulling out ones finger and taking account of oneself is the same no matter if you are black, white, pink or yellow - 27th generation English or newly arrived immigrant.

Or is it just too easy to sit back and let someone else sort out your dinner for you, whether it be from the local takeaway, Tesco's or the Food Bank?

ROFLMAO, you do lead a sheltered life, which is probably why you have such black and white opinions! Believe me, there are lots of places where gardens are knee deep in grass and rubbish ...but I happen to know that some of them in my area have at least one and sometimes two adults working...and others have a disabled person who can't look after it. Not looking after your garden is not an indication of fecklessness or extracting the urine...it could as easily be lack of time, of inclination, not being bothered about what the neighbours' think..or not being able physically or mentally to do it. I was brought up to worry about what the neighbours' thought....so I definitely kept the garden tidy.....but you really wouldn't have wanted to enter my house..because the neighbours didn't see that.

I'm on a fair few forums, and this one is one of the nastiest.

[rob murray]

ROFLMAO, you do lead a sheltered life, which is probably why you have such black and white opinions! Believe me, there are lots of places where gardens are knee deep in grass and rubbish ...but I happen to know that some of them in my area have at least one and sometimes two adults working...and others have a disabled person who can't look after it. Not looking after your garden is not an indication of fecklessness or extracting the urine...it could as easily be lack of time, of inclination, not being bothered about what the neighbours' think..or not being able physically or mentally to do it. I was brought up to worry about what the neighbours' thought....so I definitely kept the garden tidy.....but you really wouldn't have wanted to enter my house..because the neighbours didn't see that.

I'm on a fair few forums, and this one is one of the nastiest.

Couldnt agree more....quite a few folk struggling to eat their soup with a fork lol

[Big Gaz]

I'm on a fair few forums, and this one is one of the nastiest.


OOOH!!! what a nasty comment about us Orgers, but i'm sure you wouldn't have it any other way on here [smirk]

[orkneycadian]

ROFLMAO, you do lead a sheltered life, which is probably why you have such black and white opinions! Believe me, there are lots of places where gardens are knee deep in grass and rubbish ...but I happen to know that some of them in my area have at least one and sometimes two adults working...and others have a disabled person who can't look after it. Not looking after your garden is not an indication of fecklessness or extracting the urine...it could as easily be lack of time, of inclination, not being bothered about what the neighbours' think..or not being able physically or mentally to do it. I was brought up to worry about what the neighbours' thought....so I definitely kept the garden tidy.....but you really wouldn't have wanted to enter my house..because the neighbours didn't see that.

I'm on a fair few forums, and this one is one of the nastiest.

Yep, that confirms what I suspected. That its easier to sit back and wait for someone else to come and make sure you get fed....

Anyone out of work (plenty time on their hands) and going hungry should have the best ability and incentive for a bit of self preservation. Those in work, have the least, since, as you point out they are working all day and have the income means to be able to afford to buy their tatties. If they make their income from their own labour, then they have that choice. However, it appears that their labour also means that others don't have to bother.

Yep, bring in the garden tax!

[Mrs Bradey]

Yep, that confirms what I suspected. That its easier to sit back and wait for someone else to come and make sure you get fed....Anyone out of work (plenty time on their hands) and going hungry should have the best ability and incentive for a bit of self preservation. Those in work, have the least, since, as you point out they are working all day and have the income means to be able to afford to buy their tatties. If they make their income from their own labour, then they have that choice. However, it appears that their labour also means that others don't have to bother.Yep, bring in the garden tax!is this one of your black opinions or is it a white one? I'm confused as all your opinions seem the same colour to me........?

[Oddquine]

Yep, that confirms what I suspected. That its easier to sit back and wait for someone else to come and make sure you get fed....

Anyone out of work (plenty time on their hands) and going hungry should have the best ability and incentive for a bit of self preservation. Those in work, have the least, since, as you point out they are working all day and have the income means to be able to afford to buy their tatties. If they make their income from their own labour, then they have that choice. However, it appears that their labour also means that others don't have to bother.

Yep, bring in the garden tax!

Sorry.....what is that meant to mean? You suspected this is one of the nastiest forums I frequent.......or I sit and wait for someone to feed me because I don't like housework....and admit it?

Having an untidy/unkempt garden is not necessarily an illustration of a feckless person........should never go by appearances of people or their homes..and particularly not on the television in what are laughingly called "reality" shows.

[samanthaflax02]

It is really sad that all this happening in our society. We must enforced contraception at birth.

[dandod]

All this comments only one step away from comments you might see from adolf himself I wonder how many might change there tune if it were there daughter or son who could not get a job I bet that would be ok and I wonder how many people wrote a Nasty comment who are claiming some kind of benefit themselves but are working like tax credit child benefit or housing benefit considering we live in one of the lowest paid places in the uk . There are people that will always take advantage of the system but you can't write everyone off lets face it how many jobs are they in caithness for youths.

[sids]

We must enforced contraception at birth.

Birth is a late time for contraception.

[orkneycadian]

You don't want to be applying these things too late in life....

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