View Full Version : chosing your baby's sex
well, should we be able to chose our babies sex?
I see no problem with it, we can choose our own later in life after all...
champagnebaby
24-Mar-05, 15:17
I see no problem with it, we can choose our own later in life after all...
When it's put like that i suppose we should.
But what happens when we've a world full of gerls and no boys to keep the humane race going or vice versa??
I can't see the point anway cos you're gonna love your baby just the same regardless of it's sex.
Arguably there are too many people on this planet, so any imbalance in the sexes will affect population won't it? A good thing if you ask me. In the west, I think there will be as many who want boys as there will be those who want girls.
However, if Islamic couples choose boys then they may have some problems keeping their population levels....
champagnebaby
24-Mar-05, 15:32
Forgot to say before . . . I do agree with it in certain circumstances like was there not something about a couple wanting a baby boy so they could get genes(or something) to help his sibling get well and it would have to be a boy they had as only a boy would carry the necessary genes
also in the cases where only a certain sex caries a hereditary disease and they can choose to have the other sex.. so that way they can have a child without having to bring one into the world with all the inherant problems
Naefearjustbeer
24-Mar-05, 21:50
no
Arguably there are too many people on this planet, so any imbalance in the sexes will affect population won't it? A good thing if you ask me.
A good thing? Tell that to China. It doesn't do a lot for societal wellbeing when the majority of men can't find wives.
In the west, I think there will be as many who want boys as there will be those who want girls.
How can you be so sure it'll balance out?
However, if Islamic couples choose boys then they may have some problems keeping their population levels....
Is there any reason why you're applying this issue specifically to Islam? Surely if any society or culture chooses boys there'd be subsequent population issues?
also in the cases where only a certain sex caries a hereditary disease and they can choose to have the other sex.. so that way they can have a child without having to bring one into the world with all the inherant problems
This is already permissable.
Arguably there are too many people on this planet, so any imbalance in the sexes will affect population won't it? A good thing if you ask me.
A good thing? Tell that to China. It doesn't do a lot for societal wellbeing when the majority of men can't find wives.
In the west, I think there will be as many who want boys as there will be those who want girls.
How can you be so sure it'll balance out?
However, if Islamic couples choose boys then they may have some problems keeping their population levels....
Is there any reason why you're applying this issue specifically to Islam? Surely if any society or culture chooses boys there'd be subsequent population issues?
How come Chinese men can't find wives? Are they already choosing the sex of their babies?
I guessed it would balance up purely on random thought if western people (especially British) do not seem to bother which sex is their children.
I only thought of Islam first, I accept that there may be other religions which may affect the choice of sex, even christianity has a slight bias towards the extra 'divinity' of men.
How come Chinese men can't find wives? Are they already choosing the sex of their babies?
Head down a rabbit hole, Rheghead?
China instituted a one child policy in 1979. In a country which places higher value on males, this led to disdain for female babies, and subsequently more neglect and abandonment, which led to a higher mortality rate in girls. There were very many cases of infanticide (which freed up the parents to go on to have a boy instead).
It is thought that there are around half a million missing girls in China (some relating to infanticide, other relating to baby girls not being registered in order for the parents to escape the official policy). The policy resulted in 118 males for every 100 females in China.
Let us put the rights and wrongs of China's policy to one side and ask 'Is it tackling population growth?'
So by letting couples to choose their baby's sex will prevent infanticide?
Let us put the rights and wrongs of China's policy to one side and ask 'Is it tackling population growth?'
In China yes, it is believed to have reduced population growth by 300 million in 20 years.
So by letting couples to choose their baby's sex will prevent infanticide?
Are we still talking about China? In the West, I don't believe the sex of a child, chosen or not, has any impact on infanticide (and there is a low instance of it in any case). In China, the problem was/is the low value placed on girls/women. If they were allowed to choose their baby's sex, there may still be a population issue with too high a proportion of men to women. The removal of the one child policy would be the key to reducing infanticide.
We appear to be moving off on an unhelpful tangent here.
Getting back to the point, you suggested that population growth restrictions as a result of disproportionate numbers of men and women would be a good thing, I suggested that this would not be a healthy development in any society.
I also think that any effort to curb population is a good thing, a good old war, especially a nuke one in certain areas might be helpful. It would provide a good old Spring cleaning and the World would come out refreshed. :)
I also think that any effort to curb population is a good thing, a good old war, especially a nuke one in certain areas might be helpful. It would provide a good old Spring cleaning and the World would come out refreshed. :)
Oh yes, very profound. Superbly helpful.
I could think of better approaches to world population control, if you'd be interested. None of which relate in any way to allowing people to choose the sex of their baby.
I am in interested in your population control ideas, lets hear 'em.
My last post obviously was not entirely sincere as you should have guessed. :o)
I am in interested in your population control ideas, lets hear 'em.
Well, there are demographic issues all over, with the West facing real population crises as a result of low birth rates (with predictions particularly dire for Italy). There will not be enough workers to sustain us in our old age. This country will desperately require immigrants. I find it entertaining that we squeal about immigration. Without it, we will all rot and die in our old age - there will be no workers available for old folks' homes or sheltered housing.
Other areas face issues of overpopulation. China has sought to control it. India appears not to. The issue appears to be most critical in Africa.
In Africa, food shortages and starvation continue (regardless of whether British boy bands and Rachel Stevens sing for them or not). Mortality rates are high, so people have many children, in an attempt to keep the family alive in some form, to have workers/earners in the family. In essence, the best thing we can do to address population crises in Africa is to address the poverty. Sort poverty, sort population.
When I mentioned food shortages, there's no actual shortage of food in the world. There is an problem of food distribution (ie it's inadequate).
I'm part way through reading Not on the Label (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0141015667/qid=1111710846/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/026-6707848-9518000). It's scary stuff, more alarming even than Fast Food Nation (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0141006870/qid=1111710939/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_3_1/026-6707848-9518000). You'll be aware of the increasing power of our supermarkets, but I hadn't realised until reading this about the global power our supermarkets have. Large proportions of food produced by farmers is rejected and dumped by supermarkets for not meeting precise expectations.
Fruit and vegetables are required to be precise sizes, precise shapes, precise colours with absolutely no marks or bruising. Think about when you buy carrots in a supermarket. Twenty years ago, they were various sizes, straight and bendy, varied naturally in terms of colour and texture, and the carrot tops might even (shock horror) be a bit green. Now, every carrot is nearly identical. Did they breed out the variation? No - the supermarkets just dump anything that doesn't meet their precise specifications. The Prince of Wales's own farm has a rejection rate of 40%.
There are farms in Africa which grow green beans for British consumers. They must be straight, a precise size and a precise colour. Tonnes and tonnes of green beans which do not meet this are dumped by the supermarkets, even when there are starving people just a few miles away.
The world's gone wrong somewhere for sure, and allowing people to choose the sex of their babies just won't fix it (see how I got back on topic there :D ).
My last post obviously was not entirely sincere as you should have guessed. :o)
Of course, and I really ought to have ended my response with :p or to have agreed that it was a great idea and that we should start with your house. ;)
agreed that it was a great idea and that we should start with your house.
That's not very nice, plus it would be a bad idea. Reay is not a densely populated area...
Oh crumbs, I didn't even finish talking about population control.
Adequate education about, and access to, contraception, would be an obvious one. It would help if the Catholic Church would butt out of the reproduction issue in third world countries generally. As 24.5 million Africans have AIDS, it would be particularly helpful if the Catholic Church would stop propagating lies that condoms cannot prevent the spread of HIV infection. As with poverty, AIDS is encouraging people to have more children, and so all we have are more people dying. As far as I'm concerned, the Catholic Church wilfully contributes to the deaths of millions.
I fully expect to have offended some people with this post. It should be noted that it is the establishment within the Catholic Church that I take issue with, not Catholic faith itself.
I agree with you that poverty should be tackled. But I am a bit doubtful whether it would tackle population growth rate. I can see it may even accelerate it in certain cultures.
I am also worried about Globalisation, but the supermarkets don't reject greeny carrots, I expect they just put them into processed food where the green is not obvious.
That's not very nice, plus it would be a bad idea. Reay is not a densely populated area...
Of course, you're right. I think perhaps we ought to abandon this tangent now, as I suspect I'll take issue with any densely populated area you propose nuking, even in jest. ;)
That's not very nice, plus it would be a bad idea. Reay is not a densely populated area...
Of course, you're right. I think perhaps we ought to abandon this tangent now, as I suspect I'll take issue with any densely populated area you propose nuking, even in jest. ;)
Nuking Reay would get rid of Dounreay's problem at Sandside beach. ;)
I am also worried about Globalisation, but the supermarkets don't reject greeny carrots, I expect they just put them into processed food where the green is not obvious.
Such is the power of the supermarkets that sadly this is incorrect. There is a discussion in the book about the produce of a particular British plum grower. He says that in the past, the large plums would be sold as fresh fruit, the medium ones would be canned and the small ones would be used for jamming. Nowadays, the small ones and most of the medium ones are dumped (literally binned). Globalisation, the power of supermarkets, and the lack of collective power of farmers have meant that food producers must meet specifications or be dropped like a hot stone, as the supermarket buyers can go elsewhere at the drop of a hat.
I agree with you that poverty should be tackled. But I am a bit doubtful whether it would tackle population growth rate. I can see it may even accelerate it in certain cultures.
Perhaps - which cultures are you talking about?
In Africa, there are clear correlations between poverty, mortality rates and resulting birth rates as families compensate.
Such is the power of the supermarkets that sadly this is incorrect. There is a discussion in the book about the produce of a particular British plum grower. He says that in the past, the large plums would be sold as fresh fruit, the medium ones would be canned and the small ones would be used for jamming. Nowadays, the small ones and most of the medium ones are dumped (literally binned). Globalisation, the power of supermarkets, and the lack of collective power of farmers have meant that food producers must meet specifications or be dropped like a hot stone, as the supermarket buyers can go elsewhere at the drop of a hat.
If that's the case, it does sound like a big waste of food.
I meant the cultures that advocate that to prove you are a man then you gorra have lots of kids, that just sums up them all I guess.
I meant the cultures that advocate that to prove you are a man then you gorra have lots of kids, that just sums up them all I guess.
Sorry, I'm stumped. Which cultures?
"The Lord said 'Go forth and multiply'"
That is Judaism and Christianity for a start. Roman Catholic families are characterised by being large aren't they?
"The Lord said 'Go forth and multiply'"
That is Judaism and Christianity for a start.
Neither of which would appear to have overpopulation issues (quite the opposite in fact). Maybe men no longer feel the need to prove their manhood through virility.
"The Lord said 'Go forth and multiply'"
That is Judaism and Christianity for a start.
Neither of which would appear to have overpopulation issues (quite the opposite in fact). Maybe men no longer feel the need to prove their manhood through virility.
Famous Monty Python film sketches not withstanding then? :)
Or not-so-famous, since I haven't a clue what you're talking about. Perhaps that's showing my age. :confused
I agree with you that poverty should be tackled. But I am a bit doubtful whether it would tackle population growth rate. I can see it may even accelerate it in certain cultures.
Perhaps - which cultures are you talking about?
You said 'perhaps' yourself, which cultures did you have in mind?
I agree with you that poverty should be tackled. But I am a bit doubtful whether it would tackle population growth rate. I can see it may even accelerate it in certain cultures.
.
The population rates in the western world have fallen because poverty is not a real issue. these reasons follow. a lot of women want careers before or instead of a family. We don't need to have lots of children in the hope some will survive. Our children are expensive! So - yes, tackling poverty will also tackle the population areas that can least afford it.
Even in this country - have you noticed the number of large families who live on income support?
Katarina, I don't buy your point at all. Some families in GB may be poor, but they are hardly large to ensure that some children will survive. Have you never heard of the NHS?
Also, I am more inclined to think that women go to work because of poverty rather than it's a sign of emancipation from it.
I'm not tarring everyone with the same brush - far from it. And yes, a lot of mother's have to work, but also a lot would rather live off the state or fiddle the system in some way.
I still think statistics looking at the different cultures prove my point.
[mad] Choose your babies sex???
[evil] Terri Schiavo's case. It is said that it is wrong toplay ''GOD'' and let this woman die by cutting of her food supply. It is also said wrong for people to commit voulantry euthanasia. So it is wrong to play ''GOD'' is it??? Well then is it not playing ''GOD'' when we start choosing the sex of our babies? I see it o.k to help people have children who aren't fertile ect however stop it there. Choosing the sex is the beggining of the end to many boys = no more babies, and vice-versa. So why don't the wacky scientists take thier heads from the clouds realise that they are only human and let nature take it's course... :mad:
Dr Evil, how do you know for sure that God's will is not being exercised by our ability to choose our babies sex?
Can you speak personally for what God wants?
The same goes for Terri Schiavo, have you considered the possibility that God wants her life ended? If he is a personal and caring God then it could be a possibility...
He was there when he inspired the Gospels and God made us in his own image...
using that arguement, then Terri should be dead, because only man- made technology kept her alive. But in the same instance chosing a babies sex is man made and therefore shouldn't happen. Or you could argue that god gave man the ability to do these things, so therefore condones it. This is getting all too deep for me.
Exactly my point Katarina, I just don't like it when people presume to speak for God and what he would and wouldn't approve of.
champagnebaby
26-Mar-05, 20:43
Who knows if there even is a god?!?!?!
wow - now we're getting into deep water - maybe we should have a pol on that.
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