View Full Version : Jamie Stone "The clubbable MSP)
peter macdonald
18-Feb-07, 10:47
In todays Sunday Herald
http://www.sundayherald.com/news/heraldnews/display.var.1201184.0.0.php
Looks like we are not going to jamie on TV in the election runup!!
I used to have nationalistic leanings until I started to think. That doesnt mean I am accusing Nationalists of being thoughtless but in my case I hadnt thought too much about it.
What was it that made me proud to be a Scot? Why did I want Scotland to be an independant nation?
When I started to think about it I discovered some of my ammunition for independance centred on thoughts I never even knew i held about other nationalalities. They wern't horrible thoughts nor would I call them hatred for others, but I could not ignore them.
These are the corners of my mind where the phobias lurk and if I wanted a truthful answer to my original questions I couldn't ignore them.
Mostly these thoughts are unconscious but they are as important a factor in our decision makings as someone who says I am not racist....but.
I doubt if Jamie Stone considered these thoughts before the words fell out of his mouth but I would urge all Nationalists to consider the possibility that their Nationalistic pride may be sweetened by a small dose of xenephobia. :eek:
Mostly these thoughts are unconscious but they are as important a factor in our decision makings as someone who says I am not racist....but.
I doubt if Jamie Stone considered these thoughts before the words fell out of his mouth but I would urge all Nationalists to consider the possibility that their Nationalistic pride may be sweetened by a small dose of xenephobia. :eek:
I've considered it................and nope, it isn't.
My nationalism is powered by a desire to have a Scotland run for the good of those who live in it by those who live in it.
My nationalism is powered by a desire to have a Scotland run for the good of those who live in it by those who live in it.
Personally I dont care who runs Scotland.......as long as it is run well.
Humerous Vegetable
18-Feb-07, 17:00
The SNP don't really have to campaign this time around, the Lib Dems and New Labour are doing it all for them. We just need Tommy Sheridan and a couple of Greens to weigh in and give Alex Salmond a verbal kicking and it'll be a one horse race.
Nationalism in any shape or form is divisive antagonistic and discriminatory. Nothing wrong with being patriotic, but nationistic is just wrong.
North Rhins
18-Feb-07, 20:29
I sometimes wonder if the SNP are tarred with the brush of the BNP. I do not honestly believe that an independent Scotland would be governed to the detriment of non Scots. I think the word Nationalism has become a dirty word, hijacked by the PC brigade. To me Nationalism means pride, pride in ones country and its heritage. To be concerned as to the welfare of the country and its inhabitants, whoever they are. Don’t confuse the word Nationalism with the Racism, as some would have you believe.
If its nationalism or patriotism that you want then what is wrong with feeling that way about the Union?
If its nationalism or patriotism that you want then what is wrong with feeling that way about the Union?
Nothing if that's what rocks your boat..................but I have never ever felt British.
Keith Shelley
19-Feb-07, 01:58
I believe in the union. But then I have a Scotish father and an English mother. If our proud nations split what identity would I have?
mickey101
20-Feb-07, 01:32
Hi
Sorry I have to put my two feet in here. Anyone who thinks the SNP can govern anything more than a sweet shop is in for a nasty shock if enough of my fellow country men are gullable enough to swallow their guff.
Their entire premise is that Scotland's economy can be operate on it own, using the revenue from North Sea oil. Evidently Mr Salamond et al didnt get the memo " The Damn stuff is running out fast". The time for independence, if there ever was one is long past.
I occasionally listen/watch the broadcasts of the Edinburgh " Waste of space" and I am dismayed that we actually voted for these people. I have heard more reasoned arguement and debate between two ten year olds.
The UK punches well above its weight in the world because of the Union. The Union is one of the few examples I can think of were the total is far greater than the sum of its part. To break it up now given all the other instability in the world would be a huge mistake and one the Scots would regret for the rest of their lives.
Okay rant over, I await the flak
M
peter macdonald
20-Feb-07, 09:22
Heres some regarding the northern Highlands....please discuss the following Post Office closures, demise of the fishing industry , rural transport cuts, depopulation , loss of manufacturing jobs , lack of support for crofting ,lack of support for tourism etc etc now to prove my point take a wee look around at places such as Lairg and remember what was there 20 years ago and what is there now ..... then take a run up to Kinlochbervie and see how much fish is being landed and then take a look at this forum and see the posts regarding the future after Dounreay If the rest of the highlands is any thing to go by then we are in deep "clag" and ..what the rest of the northern Highlands has was given to them by the system you seem to want to keep I personally dont care who it is that is in government but they sure as the devil have failled in their duty to look after ALL of the UK We in this corner have been sheltered by Dounreay but that is going ....and the future isnt pretty unless there is a fundimental change somewhere...............Rant over
ps i also realise that it is no better in West Wales SW Scotland and probably worst of all in Cornwall but I live and work here as have my family for generations but this i fear will end with me
[quote=mickey101;192419]Hi
Sorry I have to put my two feet in here. Anyone who thinks the SNP can govern anything more than a sweet shop is in for a nasty shock if enough of my fellow country men are gullable enough to swallow their guff.
Their entire premise is that Scotland's economy can be operate on it own, using the revenue from North Sea oil. Evidently Mr Salamond et al didnt get the memo " The Damn stuff is running out fast". The time for independence, if there ever was one is long past.
I occasionally listen/watch the broadcasts of the Edinburgh " Waste of space" and I am dismayed that we actually voted for these people. I have heard more reasoned arguement and debate between two ten year olds.
The UK punches well above its weight in the world because of the Union. The Union is one of the few examples I can think of were the total is far greater than the sum of its part. To break it up now given all the other instability in the world would be a huge mistake and one the Scots would regret for the rest of their lives.
Okay rant over, I await the flak
M[/quote
Correct me if I am wrong but it is my understanding that the May elections is for the " wee pretendy parliment in Edinburgh" which by definition must be "nationalist" as it only takes to do with Scottish matters. That being the case then it does not matter if the SNP gets a shotty of running it. After all they can't be any worse or do us any more damage than the jokers that are in charge of running it at the moment. Surely for the union to be broken the SNP would have to win the majority of the seats at a General Election.
peter macdonald
20-Feb-07, 16:14
Thaks Jaykay for a realistic view of the subject Funny how thankfull we show be for our "Lot in life" according to some ..............and thank you Rhegers for the appreciation of my rant!!!!!!
I had an SNP rep on the phone last night. He wondered if I could help in a short telephone survey. I told him I had no interest in any of the parties as there is not an honest person amongst them. OK he says, let me ask you a non-political question:-
"If there were a referendum on Scottish Independence tomorrow, which way would you vote?"
Non-political? What planet do they get these people from? Come back Gordon Campbell all is forgiven.
mickey101
20-Feb-07, 18:22
Hi
To answer JayKay's question regarding the Wee pretend parliament. The SNP have made it quite clear that if they win a majority in the Scottish Parliament elections they will use this as a mandate to call for a referendum on Independence for Scotland. So make no bones about this. It is no game.
And Scotland is on the verge of going down a road to economic hell.
M
Hi
To answer JayKay's question regarding the Wee pretend parliament. The SNP have made it quite clear that if they win a majority in the Scottish Parliament elections they will use his as a mandate to call for a referendum on Independence for Scotland. So make no bones about this. It is no game.
And Scotland is on the verge of going down a road to economic hell.
M
Erm, mickey101..............having a referendum doesn't automatically mean winning a referendum.
In the end, this time round..........if it happens......... whether your camp, who doesn't want independence, or mine, which does, wins.............it will be the will of the Scottish people, and will have to be accepted for the moment.
That's democracy.
You have a problem with that?
I'd have thought that, as you are so sure independence would be such a bad idea and we Scots would surely not be so stupid as to vote for it, you'd welcome getting the issue out of the way for the next few years.
Or are you feart we might just go for it.............despite your warnings?
I had an SNP rep on the phone last night. He wondered if I could help in a short telephone survey. I told him I had no interest in any of the parties as there is not an honest person amongst them. OK he says, let me ask you a non-political question:-
"If there were a referendum on Scottish Independence tomorrow, which way would you vote?"
Non-political? What planet do they get these people from? Come back Gordon Campbell all is forgiven.
That isn't really a political question..............there are a lot more than people than SNP, Green, SSP voters who are inclined towards independence.
But of course those who are anti will tend to look on it as political oriented question rather than one about an all/non-political swing for self determination, and a all/non-political swing against a Greater London oriented Westminster Government of whatever complexion.
And, having had Gordon Campbell for years as my MP..he ain't forgiven! ;)
Heres some regarding the northern Highlands....please discuss the following Post Office closures, demise of the fishing industry , rural transport cuts, depopulation , loss of manufacturing jobs , lack of support for crofting ,lack of support for tourism etc etc now to prove my point take a wee look around at places such as Lairg and remember what was there 20 years ago and what is there now ..... then take a run up to Kinlochbervie and see how much fish is being landed and then take a look at this forum and see the posts regarding the future after Dounreay If the rest of the highlands is any thing to go by then we are in deep "clag" and ..what the rest of the northern Highlands has was given to them by the system you seem to want to keep I personally dont care who it is that is in government but they sure as the devil have failled in their duty to look after ALL of the UK We in this corner have been sheltered by Dounreay but that is going ....and the future isnt pretty unless there is a fundimental change somewhere...............Rant over
ps i also realise that it is no better in West Wales SW Scotland and probably worst of all in Cornwall but I live and work here as have my family for generations but this i fear will end with me
Good post, peter macdonald!
That isn't really a political question
And, having had Gordon Campbell for years as my MP..he ain't forgiven! ;)
What category would you put it under then?
Gordon Campbell MP?
Member perhaps, surely he has never added the Parliament to that title?
mickey101
20-Feb-07, 23:30
Hi Oddquine
You are correct that calling a referendum does not automatically mean you will win it, but few referendums are called unless the group calling for it are pretty damn sure they will win.
To date the Pro independence parties have yet to spell out exactly what the true cost to Scotland will be if it goes it alone. and the tax burden that will be leived to fund this Dream.
Where will the money come from for :-
Cost of setting up our own Social services and running them.
Currency
Economy
Defence
Police
loss of jobs( and trust me there will be alot)
the list goes on. None of this I ever hear spoken of by the Pro Independence groups.
To most people the question of Independence simply boils down( and the pro Independence are happy for that to continue) Not taking order from the English. Like we do already. I thought that was what the "Waste of space" in Edinburgh was supposed to be for. If they did their job, instead of scoring points off each other all day long.
So I say To Mr Salmond et all. Put your cards on the table, ALL OF THEM. Show the Scots the true cost of this dream and let them decide based on all of the facts not just the good bits you wish to drip feed us with.
If they show me that Scotland is better off on it's own they will get my vote but up until now all they have shown is that they are no better than the Policial Parties they claim are the bad guys.
M
What category would you put it under then?
Gordon Campbell MP?
Member perhaps, surely he has never added the Parliament to that title?
Ooops, sorry!
So what Gordon Campbell are you talking about? The only one I've ever heard of was once the MP for my old area!
Hi Oddquine
You are correct that calling a referendum does not automatically mean you will win it, but few referendums are called unless the group calling for it are pretty damn sure they will win.
Not in this case...............the core independence vote is solid, but the polls fluctuate too much for any certainty at all. The SNP know full well that an SNP vote is not necessarily a vote for independence.
If they believed that was the case, a simple majority in Edinburgh would give them the mandate to seek a divorce.
To date the Pro independence parties have yet to spell out exactly what the true cost to Scotland will be if it goes it alone. and the tax burden that will be leived to fund this Dream.
Where will the money come from for :-
Cost of setting up our own Social services and running them.
Currency
Economy
Defence
Police
loss of jobs( and trust me there will be alot)
the list goes on. None of this I ever hear spoken of by the Pro Independence groups.
I'm not the person to ask............I just want independence whatever the cost...............the nuts and bolts are not important as far as I'm concerned.
But we will, of course, get credit for our share of the UK assets............just as in any divorce..............so I guess the monetary equivalent for some which aren't physically transferrable, and the physical acquisition of buildings etc in other cases would go some way to funding the official set up.
To most people the question of Independence simply boils down( and the pro Independence are happy for that to continue) Not taking order from the English. Like we do already. I thought that was what the "Waste of space" in Edinburgh was supposed to be for. If they did their job, instead of scoring points off each other all day long.
Maybe to most people, but not to me.
That "waste of space" in Edinburgh can't stop us being involved in the likes of Iraq..........or Iran if our over-lord the US of A decides to move in........it can't remove Trident, can't stop Westminster handing over our fishing industry, can't stop Westminster privatising our water by stealth, can't stop Westminster making us have nuclear power stations and be covered in windfarms for the benefit of English consumers if they decide to over-rule whatever is decided by Edinburgh.
OK, they can do what all of us do from week to week, they get an amount of money, and divide it up as required........but, as far as I'm concerned being in control of your housekeeping means nothing when you aren't earning it for yourself.
So I say To Mr Salmond et all. Put your cards on the table, ALL OF THEM. Show the Scots the true cost of this dream and let them decide based on all of the facts not just the good bits you wish to drip feed us with.
If they show me that Scotland is better off on it's own they will get my vote but up until now all they have shown is that they are no better than the Policial Parties they claim are the bad guys.
M
Again, I'm not the one to ask because being better off isn't something which worries me. I guess it depends on whether you equate being better off as in richer.....I'm afraid I don't..............I'd be quite pleased not to be worse off, but I could hack that if I was worse off because we did it ourselves.
But what "all of them" do you mean?
The same kind of "all of them" that we get from Westminster when they are telling us that we can't afford independence...that we need subsidies from them to survive.......the "all of them" that ignores oil income and the hidden subsidies to the South of England.?
If I dig through my stuff, I undoubtedly have hard copies of loads of SNP facts, figures and budget examples.............but frankly, I've given up bothering to produce them on forums.............because all those who believe that we can't afford independence...that we need subsidies from them to survive.. ..aren't going to take any notice of SNP figures, however detailed....and if anyone is really interested, they can be found online anyway.
mickey101
21-Feb-07, 02:18
Oddquine
You are a perfect example of why Independence is a bad idea.
No 1 my question regarding how it will be financed were not directed at you but at the larger audience reading and contributing to this thread. I did think foolishly that this was an open debate in which people can air their views for others to agree or refute.
No 2 Your statments are typical of the Xenophobic attitude which Jamie Stone said exists and I have seen you in another thread decry, refute and claim foul. Independence at any cost NO THANKS. I have no wish to see the country I love turned into a Third class Nation at the hands of the dogmatic nationalists, dependent on the charity and hand outs from our European neighbours. Assuming we are allowed back into the EEC. Break up the union and our membership of that club becomes null and void.
No 3 Sorry to tell you this but you are just at risk of something equally stupid as going to war with IRAQ happening even if we got Independence, probably more so given the calibre of MSP we have. We are still counting on our elected officials doing the right thing. If they dont we already have a mechanism to deal with it, VOTE THEM OUT.
No 4 For every fancy bound document the Independence group have ever produced saying Independence is the greatest thing since sliced bread, I can probably produce one that says doing it is a bad idea. Sorry it is the same old dogma, nothing new. See the CBI statment in todays P & J
So why dont you engage in a proper debate on the issues at hand rather than trotting out the same dogma or passing the buck on the important questions.
As a floating voter I still am waiting to be convinced
M
PS Evidently you didnt get the memo either. let me spell it out. NORTH SEA OIL IS RUNNING OUT.
Oddquine
You are a perfect example of why Independence is a bad idea.
No 1 my question regarding how it will be financed were not directed at you but at the larger audience reading and contributing to this thread. I did think foolishly that this was an open debate in which people can air their views for others to agree or refute.
So if you didn't want me to reply, you shouldn't have started it by saying Hi Oddquine, should you?
I'd still have replied, but not personalised it.
No 2 Your statments are typical of the Xenophobic attitude which Jamie Stone said exists and I have seen you in another thread decry, refute and claim foul. Independence at any cost NO THANKS. I have no wish to see the country I love turned into a Third class Nation at the hands of the dogmatic nationalists, dependent on the charity and hand outs from our European neighbours. Assuming we are allowed back into the EEC. Break up the union and our membership of that club becomes null and void.
tbh, Mickey101, neither of us are going to get more than one vote when it comes to the crunch...........so what you want to see and what I want to see are down to a lot of other people.
I am not xenophobic, I just have no time for Westminster Government of any colour or national membership. I don't actually mind English people. I do, however have no time for people of any nationality, including pro-Union Scots who talk of Scotland and the Scots as if they were incapable of running a theme park.
If people make sensible commnts, I'll make sensible replies.
No 3 Sorry to tell you this but you are just at risk of something equally stupid as going to war with IRAQ happening even if we got Independence, probably more so given the calibre of MSP we have. We are still counting on our elected officials doing the right thing. If they dont we already have a mechanism to deal with it, VOTE THEM OUT.
Do we?...........I don't think so for a minute..because there would never be a big enough majority under PR to let any prime minister do what he likes.
But we could do that with a Scottish Government...we don't have to have a Government in Westminster.
No 4 For every fancy bound document the Independence group have ever produced saying Independence is the greatest thing since sliced bread, I can probably produce one that says doing it is a bad idea. Sorry it is the same old dogma, nothing new. See the CBI statment in todays P & J
So why dont you engage in a proper debate on the issues at hand rather than trotting out the same dogma or passing the buck on the important questions.
As a floating voter I still am waiting to be convinced
M
PS Evidently you didnt get the memo either. let me spell it out. NORTH SEA OIL IS RUNNING OUT.
I'm sure you can, but if it is a Government produced set of figures, they certainly won't have much detail.
Of course North Sea Oil is running out.......so what?
If we are lucky, we'll maybe get some of the income from it to ourselves before it finally goes.
But North Sea Oil isn't the be all and end all of the Scottish Economy.
Don't kid yourself............you are no more a floating voter than I am.
Floating voters have open minds.............you can tell that by the tone of their posts.
No open mind here..............
Their entire premise is that Scotland's economy can be operate on it own, using the revenue from North Sea oil. Evidently Mr Salamond et al didnt get the memo " The Damn stuff is running out fast". The time for independence, if there ever was one is long past.
Humerous Vegetable
21-Feb-07, 10:27
[quote=mickey101;192680]Oddquine
You are a perfect example of why Independence is a bad idea.
No 2 Your statments are typical of the Xenophobic attitude which Jamie Stone said exists and I have seen you in another thread decry, refute and claim foul. Independence at any cost NO THANKS. I have no wish to see the country I love turned into a Third class Nation at the hands of the dogmatic nationalists, dependent on the charity and hand outs from our European neighbours. Assuming we are allowed back into the EEC. Break up the union and our membership of that club becomes null and void.
Handouts? Charity? You seem to see the EC as some kind of rich but slightly potty old uncle Fritz who doles out a bit of pocket money to his poor relations. It's our money - the European taxpayer pays, via their national governments, into the Common Agricultural Fund, and what's left over after the 1000s of bureaucrats have taken their cut is then doled out as MEPs see fit. I would imagine that politicans from independent nations would have more clout and influence over directing funding to their own country's priorities
Hi
To answer JayKay's question regarding the Wee pretend parliament. The SNP have made it quite clear that if they win a majority in the Scottish Parliament elections they will use this as a mandate to call for a referendum on Independence for Scotland. So make no bones about this. It is no game.
And Scotland is on the verge of going down a road to economic hell.
M
I don't see any problems with having a referendum!! If the majority want independence then they should have independence. If the majority don't want independence then we won't have independence. It's whats called democracy. Do you have a problem with democracy Mickey?
I don't see any problems with having a referendum!! If the majority want independence then they should have independence. If the majority don't want independence then we won't have independence. It's whats called democracy. Do you have a problem with democracy Mickey?
I think you are putting up a strawman arguement with asking jaykay if he has a problem with democracy on the basis of whether or not he wants a referendum on Independence. In principle, he probably doesn't as do I. If Scotland votes in the SNP and then we have a referendum then fair enough, roll yer dice and takes yer chances!
Where I have a problem with is calling for a referendum without a proper debate on this issue or selectively choosing a time when the Nation may be in euphoria over the SNP getting in, ie straight after they come to power in the exec. Don't you think that it would be fair to let the SNP prove itself for at least a full term in office where they can defend their majority before going to the country on Independence?
Afterall, Scotland has had greater economic growth by being in a Union with a greater economic and trading power and you only notice what you had when it is gone.
mickey101
21-Feb-07, 13:15
Hi All
I stand by what I want but if you look at my first post on this topic.
I have no problem with a referendum as long as.
1) It is called at an appropriate time
2) All the facts are presented to the people not just the ones that paint one or other paticular rosie picture for or against Independence.
BTW Oddquine I took your advice and looked up the economics of independence on the net. There was as many for as against and as a floating voter ( something else I have stated from the start before everyone rounds on me once again). So I am not further forward.
M
peter macdonald
21-Feb-07, 14:07
Aye its great how democracy works in this country wrt referendums isnt it
1 st March 1979
Devolution referendum. The Scottish people voted in a referendum to set up a Scottish Assembly. For a Scottish Assembly 1,230,937 votes (51.6 %), against 1,153,502 votes (48.4 %). However, London Labour, later SDP, MP George Cunningham had proposed that 40 % of the electorate must vote Yes, thus effectively counting abstainers as No voters. 32.9% of the electorate had voted Yes. Had the same conditions been imposed on the 1975 EEC referendum, Scotland would have left the EEC.
A heck of a lot of African dictators would have taken a red face over that episode
re Mickys comment about the standard of debate in Edinburgh I hope he listened to PMs questions today. Between Tony Blairs non answer to a Northamptomn MP about the NHS and the forelock tugging "question" by Michael Connerty (I wonder what job he is after??) about investment in Scotland Dear me dear me Actually there are some very good debates in Brussells ..far ahead of that pantimime today in Westminster
weeboyagee
21-Feb-07, 15:48
Where will the money come from for :-
Cost of setting up our own Social services and running them.
Currency
Economy
Defence
Police
loss of jobs( and trust me there will be alot)
the list goes on. None of this I ever hear spoken of by the Pro Independence groups.
Oh dear - do these entities exist on our soil only while the Union is functioning? Will our police, defence (which has provided the British some powerful defence over the centuries!!) and the like all sell up and move south of the border under command when we gain independence? How stupid of me to think that we would already have the infrastructure we have at the moment continuing in such an event as independence.
Our currency - now there's a thing - our Banks will all have to give their notes to England will they - who don't want them cause they tell us to stick them up our jacksie every time we try to spend them down there.
Our economy will fall to pieces because all the financial institutions will up sticks for fear of an economic meltdown???? Well,........Lord help us, but this all sounds like paradise to me than being governed by an ultimate parliament that TRULY governs for the millions no more north of the Watford gap than Scotland itself.
No-one will ever frighten me into being afraid of our own independent nation with our own identity. Any problems that we are likely to face then can be taken on and sorted out. If we have to pay an extra in tax for it - so be it - BRING IT ON!!!!! I'd rather pay extra tax to exist as an independent nation than to exist as an unwanted attachment north of the neighbour's borders.
To most people the question of Independence simply boils down( and the pro Independence are happy for that to continue) Not taking order from the English. Like we do already. I thought that was what the "Waste of space" in Edinburgh was supposed to be for. If they did their job, instead of scoring points off each other all day long.
Are you blind?? Deaf? Or plain ignorant? It's a disgrace to watch the pantomime parliament of Westminster. What happens in Holyrood is TAME in consideration of the conduct of the House of Commons which is now so aptly named! Given the fact that there is an element of "attachment" between the politicians and their parties in Holyrood and Westminster it is little wonder that there is an element (albeit lesser) of poor behaviour on show. An independent Scotland should ensure a parliament with representation through decency in address and communication - not the babble that are "supposed" to be representative of us in THAT joke of a parliament that can be left to run England. They won't be able to complain about our lot running their country then!
If they show me that Scotland is better off on it's own they will get my vote but up until now all they have shown is that they are no better than the Policial Parties they claim are the bad guys.
Rubbish - put YOUR cards on the table and state that you've made up your mind already - all your posts show that!
Rheggers - you wind me up about this subject all the time - but I'm biting my lip on your posts pal! ;) As usual!!!
WBG :cool:
mickey101
21-Feb-07, 19:10
Hi Weeboyagee
Nice to see this has only taken two pages too get down to the direct personnel act level.
And just to put my cards on the table the way that people round on Rheghead pretty much say it all. Either you agree with certain peoples opinion or you are automatically the enemy. Well sorry folks, bring it on you will find me a tad harder to chew up.
Yes I have seen the behaviour of the parliament in Westminster and yip they are just as bad as the Edinburgh " Waste of Space" so I heartily agree on that point.
And yes all the infrastructure you commented on does exist in Scotland and i think you will find it is no small matter for it to be split off and set up anew in an independent Scotland. All of it exists for the UK not its seperate nations.
As to my cards I was born a Scot and I will die a Scot, but I also believe in the Union. I love my country and all it stand for but what I wont do is join the rest of the lemmings in the blind dive for Independence without having all the options layed out on the table.
And if we did get independence it would make no difference as we would still be North of Perth and therefore only good for putting Windfarms on. The Scottish Parliament dont know we exist anymore that Westminster does.
M
I'd rather pay extra tax to exist as an independent nation than to exist as an unwanted attachment north of the neighbour's borders.
You're not like that Mishter Blofeld character then. Tax dodging Janus, talking out his anus, waving the flag for an Independent Scotland all the way from his haven in the Bahamas. "Get me Alexsh Shalmond, Missh Honeypushy"
mickey101
21-Feb-07, 21:35
Scorrie
NICE ONE !!!!!!!
M
You're not like that Mishter Blofeld character then. Tax dodging Janus, talking out his anus, waving the flag for an Independent Scotland all the way from his haven in the Bahamas. "Get me Alexsh Shalmond, Missh Honeypushy"
You don't think that maybe he just doesn't want to live in a Scotland in the Union and give his money in taxes to a Westminster Government to fritter away? He is happy to put his money into the country in other ways such as the Scottish International Education Trust and other Scottish oriented charities...........and he does pay taxes on work he does in the UK.........like everybody else.
He has always said he'll be back at the toot when we get independence!
There are, of course, loads of pro-British Scots and English people who don't contribute to the British tax system........and who don't do anything for the country at all voluntarily either.......so why pick on one man..or is your bias showing?
weeboyagee
21-Feb-07, 22:26
You're not like that Mishter Blofeld character then. Tax dodging Janus, talking out his anus, waving the flag for an Independent Scotland all the way from his haven in the Bahamas. "Get me Alexsh Shalmond, Missh Honeypushy"
Erm,.... no I'm not scorrie and even that had my sides splitting - well done - a right funny post, a good laugh and a good take-off. I am not a fan of the shed Mishter Connery and hish shcottishness from afar!
WBG :cool:
You don't think that maybe he just doesn't want to live in a Scotland in the Union and give his money in taxes to a Westminster Government to fritter away? He is happy to put his money into the country in other ways such as the Scottish International Education Trust and other Scottish oriented charities...........and he does pay taxes on work he does in the UK.........like everybody else.
He has always said he'll be back at the toot when we get independence!
There are, of course, loads of pro-British Scots and English people who don't contribute to the British tax system........and who don't do anything for the country at all voluntarily either.......so why pick on one man..or is your bias showing?
I have never questioned where my taxes went, why should Shean be above the common man?
Scottish oriented charities? SNP perhaps? i.e. Sean's Nae Payin
You don't think that maybe he just doesn't want to live in a Scotland in the Union and give his money in taxes to a Westminster Government to fritter away? He is happy to put his money into the country in other ways such as the Scottish International Education Trust and other Scottish oriented charities...........and he does pay taxes on work he does in the UK.........like everybody else.
He has always said he'll be back at the toot when we get independence!
There are, of course, loads of pro-British Scots and English people who don't contribute to the British tax system........and who don't do anything for the country at all voluntarily either.......so why pick on one man..or is your bias showing?
If I had Big Tam's money I would not be living in this cold damp country either, he has contributed Thousands if not a Million pounds to the aforementioned schemes and Charities.
What has the man done that upsets you Scorrie...be successful? His James Bond accent and character have done more for Scotland, and IMHO your jibes at a Freeman of my Adopted home are insults to the man.
Sean Connery is a great actor, I enjoy his films immensely, but all great actors are great at pretence, it comes with their trade, they can use their skills to manipulate and dupe people, their outward non-verbal communications may be because they genuinely feel about the issues but they may also be as a result of good acting skills. We only had to see Ronald Reagan and Arnold Schwarzneggar for examples.
ywindythesecond
22-Feb-07, 00:26
Hi Weeboyagee
And if we did get independence it would make no difference as we would still be North of Perth and therefore only good for putting Windfarms on. The Scottish Parliament dont know we exist anymore that Westminster does.
M
Tried to keep out of this one so far, but well said Mickey
And if we did get independence it would make no difference as we would still be North of Perth and therefore only good for putting Windfarms on. The Scottish Parliament dont know we exist anymore that Westminster does.
M
But at least any small benefit would accrue to the Scottish people, either through cheaper electricity......or being paid by England for what they export...................rather than having electricity prices in England cheaper than up here as at the moment.
ywindythesecond
22-Feb-07, 00:38
But at least any small benefit would accrue to the Scottish people, either through cheaper electricity......or being paid by England for what they export...................rather than having electricity prices in England cheaper than up here as at the moment.
Oddquine,
Google "OFGEM RESPONSE" to learn about the real cost of "cheaper electricity" from windfarms, not just in Scotland, all over the UK.
mickey101
22-Feb-07, 01:52
Hi
Many thanks for pointing that out that ywindythesecond. Saves me uttering those two words that are oft explained to the politicians but they cant seem to grasp. BASE LOAD. opps I guess I just did.
For every pretty windmill in this country whirring around there is a conventional power station ready to take over for the 75%( optimistic fiigure probably nearer 80%) of the time they are not whirring around.
Scotland is at present a net exporter of power. Once Torness and Hunterston ( those nasty nuclear power stations) shut down we will be a net importer and no amount of wind farms will ever change that.
But i guess this is just another fact to the independence lobby forget to mention along with the Oil is running out.
M
Oddquine,
Google "OFGEM RESPONSE" to learn about the real cost of "cheaper electricity" from windfarms, not just in Scotland, all over the UK.
Yeah, good theory but who decides the fixed return on each unit of renewable energy. Government? Do you trust them? And how do you encourage the use of renewable energy in times like this when prices of gas are falling?
Oddquine,
Google "OFGEM RESPONSE" to learn about the real cost of "cheaper electricity" from windfarms, not just in Scotland, all over the UK.
Perhaps you could explain this to me ...........or convince me that it is a load of hot air.............though I can say with authority that I have, in the past tackled the company representatives and had the fact confirmed.
The Quarterly Energy Prices published by the Department of Trade and Industry, released this week, show that consumers in Scotland are paying more per unit of electricity than those living in England. Scotland is a net exporter of electricity with almost one fifth of electricity generated in Scotland being used by the rest of the UK.
According to the DTI figures, we have a ridiculous situation where consumers south of the border are paying less for electricity generated in Scotland than those living in Scotland.
The average price for a standard credit unit of electricity in Scotland costs 6.5% more than in England. It also shows that the average price for a unit of electricity paid by direct debit cost 9% more than in England.
Fair? Equitable?
What I said was...............But at least any small benefit would accrue to the Scottish people, either through cheaper electricity......or being paid by England for what they export...................rather than having electricity prices in England cheaper than up here as at the moment.
Given the above......can you tell me I am wrong?
Hi
Many thanks for pointing that out that ywindythesecond. Saves me uttering those two words that are oft explained to the politicians but they cant seem to grasp. BASE LOAD. opps I guess I just did.
For every pretty windmill in this country whirring around there is a conventional power station ready to take over for the 75%( optimistic fiigure probably nearer 80%) of the time they are not whirring around.
Scotland is at present a net exporter of power. Once Torness and Hunterston ( those nasty nuclear power stations) shut down we will be a net importer and no amount of wind farms will ever change that.
But i guess this is just another fact to the independence lobby forget to mention along with the Oil is running out.
M
As the highlighted fact is true, perhaps you can explain why we pay more for our electricity than the country to which we export it............but then, of course the regulation of the electricity and gas markets is a reserved matter.........what a surprise! :roll:
mickey101
22-Feb-07, 04:16
Hi Oddquinne
It has nothing to do with the location of the government. It has everything to do with the power companies, so I suggest you take it up with them. I could give at least one probable reason why this is the case but you will undoubtable consign it as Unionist dogma. I also doubt very much that situation will change if you get your independence.
One thing I am curious is how long it will take people who bury their head in the sand over the Nuclear and hold up their pretty windmills as the solution to everything to start squealing when the lights start going out. We only have about 5 to 6 years to wait until we find out.
M
If I had Big Tam's money I would not be living in this cold damp country either, he has contributed Thousands if not a Million pounds to the aforementioned schemes and Charities.
What has the man done that upsets you Scorrie...be successful? His James Bond accent and character have done more for Scotland, and IMHO your jibes at a Freeman of my Adopted home are insults to the man.
Freeman? That title will suit Thomas right down to the ground.
I happen to think that the people best suited to saying what is good for Scotland are the common people that live here all year and not those who like the temperature high and the taxes low. Yer not much of a Loyal Scot yersel if you would desert the Country at the drop of a Lottery Ball.
ps I'll have a go at Sean or anyone else I feel like, that is Free Speech and not jealousy of an Actor I class as good but not great.
Yer not much of a Loyal Scot yersel if you would desert the Country at the drop of a Lottery Ball.
Cannot see your logic scorrie, there are plenty loyal Scots who are ex Pats and living & working all over the world for one reason or another, (many can be seen on here), because I would wish to live in a warmer EU climate if I could afford it, does not make me any less loyal a Scot.
The_man_from_del_monte
22-Feb-07, 22:31
He has always said he'll be back at the toot when we get independence!
Good god, then let's hope Scotland never gets independence... that's all we need.... an incontinent, slavering, old actor with a speech impediment roaming the hills ;)
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