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piratelassie
14-Dec-13, 19:59
When Scotjand votes for an Independent future next September the 3 big questions Europe, NATO, and the pound will obviously be settled through negoitation. Nobody seriously believes Scotland would not be successful in gaining all 3.

joxville
14-Dec-13, 20:15
As much as I support the Yes camp, I have to be honest piratelassie and say these threads that you start are becoming tedious.

cptdodger
14-Dec-13, 21:02
When Scotjand votes for an Independent future next September the 3 big questions Europe, NATO, and the pound will obviously be settled through negoitation. Nobody seriously believes Scotland would not be successful in gaining all 3.

IF piratelassie, if, not when. It is not a foregone conclusion by any stretch of the imagination.

sids
14-Dec-13, 21:03
...Scotjand

Never heard of it


negoitation.

What's that- Jim Crow laws?

tonkatojo
14-Dec-13, 21:29
Never heard of it



What's that- Jim Crow laws?


Steady sids lad it is well after 6pm and it is Saturday night afterall. Hic up.:eek:

RagnarRocks
14-Dec-13, 21:41
When Scotjand votes for an Independent future next September the 3 big questions Europe, NATO, and the pound will obviously be settled through negoitation. Nobody seriously believes Scotland would not be successful in gaining all 3.It's a big IF for starters Mr Van Rumpoy said some very interesting things regarding new countries which used to be parts of larger countries ie Scotland and Catalonia. NATOs position is reasonably clear unless the no ask no tell rules are played which would be gross hypocrisy and alas the Pounds position has been quoted as highly unlikely. That's an awfully lot of negotiation for a new country to undertake with no guarantees for success. Unless you of course accept everything Europe asks accept the Euro and all the other rules new members have to accept. Which then puts point three about the Pound as a moot point. You can't have both. Lets see NATO Scotland says no to nukes that'll upset the USA so bang goes NATO as well.

mi16
14-Dec-13, 21:42
These threads are as transparent as leggings on a fat girl

sids
14-Dec-13, 21:44
These threads are as transparent as leggings on a fat girl

Stoppit!

Phoarr!

Gronnuck
14-Dec-13, 22:11
When Scotjand votes for an Independent future next September the 3 big questions Europe, NATO, and the pound will obviously be settled through negoitation. Nobody seriously believes Scotland would not be successful in gaining all 3.Should we really be part of the EU? The diktats from Brussels will be as onerous as those we currently tolerate from Westminster. NATO is largely influenced and controlled by the USA and it is not going to be happy with the SNP's attitude to nuclear, there's every possibility they'll dismiss Scotland as a nonentity. The pound and our use of it in international transactions will be controlled by the Bank of England so this alone rather negates the bid for independence. The negotiations are not a forgone conclusion, Brussels, Westminster and Washington could just turn their back on us; they all have more important issues to deal with.

golach
14-Dec-13, 23:40
Nobody seriously believes Scotland would not be successful in gaining all 3.
I do !!!! You have not got a snowballs chance

sids
15-Dec-13, 00:12
When Scotjand votes for an Independent future next September the 3 big questions Europe, NATO, and the pound will obviously be settled through negoitation. Nobody seriously believes Scotland would not be successful in gaining all 3.

http://www.enotes.com/shakespeare-quotes/lady-doth-protest-too-much-methinks

ducati
15-Dec-13, 09:59
When Scotjand votes for an Independent future next September the 3 big questions Europe, NATO, and the pound will obviously be settled through negoitation. Nobody seriously believes Scotland would not be successful in gaining all 3.

Negotiation relies on two or more willing participants. There has to be something in it for all parties. My feeling is that GB will be so hacked off by then, they will just offer a giant " Up yours". The incumbant UK government has to try to get re-elected afterall and is very likely to reflect the attitude of the voters. I can see a long period where the Scots will be as welcome as rabies in a dogs home in the UK.

RagnarRocks
15-Dec-13, 10:48
Mind what you also have to consider is do the sums still work.Scotland has oil and gas but now we know its actually cheaper to buy American shale gas and then Scottish oils not so cheap either. That has to throw an awful lot of the pro independence campaigns fiscal policies Into turmoil as it would appear that the independence lobby are banking on oil and gas revenues.

orkneycadian
05-Jan-14, 12:32
Lets see NATO Scotland says no to nukes that'll upset the USA so bang goes NATO as well.

I know is only wild speculation (which is always good on here! ;) ) in the Daily Mail, but there is an interesting paragraph in this report....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2533846/Battle-stations-Navy-scrambles-destroyer-challenge-Russian-warship-British-coast-takes-24-hours-make-600-mile-journey-Portsmouth-base-Putin-testing-response-time.html
(http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2533846/Battle-stations-Navy-scrambles-destroyer-challenge-Russian-warship-British-coast-takes-24-hours-make-600-mile-journey-Portsmouth-base-Putin-testing-response-time.html)
....saying;

‘The Russians may also be inspecting nuclear installations in Scotland, with a view towards the independence referendum. Certainly the Russians would see the country as more vulnerable if it were no longer part of Britain.
‘The approach was part of a pattern of behaviour, and the action is more threatening when considered in this context.

billmoseley
05-Jan-14, 13:08
The only home ruling that goes on in my house is what the wife says. :eek:

Mrs Bradey
05-Jan-14, 15:09
The only home ruling that goes on in my house is what the wife says. :eek:GO Mrs Moseley !!!

Oddquine
05-Jan-14, 18:45
I know is only wild speculation (which is always good on here! ;) ) in the Daily Mail, but there is an interesting paragraph in this report....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2533846/Battle-stations-Navy-scrambles-destroyer-challenge-Russian-warship-British-coast-takes-24-hours-make-600-mile-journey-Portsmouth-base-Putin-testing-response-time.html
(http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2533846/Battle-stations-Navy-scrambles-destroyer-challenge-Russian-warship-British-coast-takes-24-hours-make-600-mile-journey-Portsmouth-base-Putin-testing-response-time.html)
....saying;

‘The Russians may also be inspecting nuclear installations in Scotland, with a view towards the independence referendum. Certainly the Russians would see the country as more vulnerable if it were no longer part of Britain.
‘The approach was part of a pattern of behaviour, and the action is more threatening when considered in this context.




Lol! Does just go to show that what we are pumping into Westminster on defence would be better used to defend ourselves.and would cost us a third less! More secure and safer as part of the UK...yeah, right!

Big Gaz
05-Jan-14, 20:11
Lol! Does just go to show that what we are pumping into Westminster on defence would be better used to defend ourselves.and would cost us a third less! More secure and safer as part of the UK...yeah, right!

Precisely!. If Putin had decided to declare war on Scotland, theres a shed load of damage that could be done by that particular missile boat before any retaliation could occur and i'm sure the scrambled planes would have had it rough too. Not to mention that the rest of the Russian fleet were on operations not too far away!

RagnarRocks
05-Jan-14, 20:20
Of course there are never any subs lurking close by that the RN will admit to.

linnie612
06-Jan-14, 01:13
Where's the rest of the thread?????:confused:

joxville
06-Jan-14, 01:41
We've been neutered Linnie!

linnie612
06-Jan-14, 01:53
Would seem so - not entirely sure why!!

joxville
06-Jan-14, 03:03
Probably for not using English.

joxville
06-Jan-14, 03:06
Anyway, I still stand by my earlier, (removed), comment. I quite fancy being a McOligarch :-)

gerry4
06-Jan-14, 13:25
When Scotjand votes for an Independent future next September the 3 big questions Europe, NATO, and the pound will obviously be settled through negoitation. Nobody seriously believes Scotland would not be successful in gaining all 3.

Can I just point out a small thing, 'Home Rule' & 'Independence' are two different things. Home Rule is where e.g Scotland has its own parliament, with powers over most things but with a overruling Parliament at Westminster, a type of Federal system. That was the Home Rule movement in the early 20th century, advocated by the Labour Party & Liberals.

cptdodger
06-Jan-14, 13:35
I know is only wild speculation (which is always good on here! ;) ) in the Daily Mail, but there is an interesting paragraph in this report....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2533846/Battle-stations-Navy-scrambles-destroyer-challenge-Russian-warship-British-coast-takes-24-hours-make-600-mile-journey-Portsmouth-base-Putin-testing-response-time.html
(http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2533846/Battle-stations-Navy-scrambles-destroyer-challenge-Russian-warship-British-coast-takes-24-hours-make-600-mile-journey-Portsmouth-base-Putin-testing-response-time.html)
....saying;

‘The Russians may also be inspecting nuclear installations in Scotland, with a view towards the independence referendum. Certainly the Russians would see the country as more vulnerable if it were no longer part of Britain.
‘The approach was part of a pattern of behaviour, and the action is more threatening when considered in this context.




I was going to ask (but I could'nt translate it into Russian !!) Why are the Russians so interested in us, surely they would not consider Scotland to be a threat to them ?

billmoseley
06-Jan-14, 17:33
Not invade but befriend. Haven,t you read Rogue Nation?

RagnarRocks
06-Jan-14, 17:46
Yes they befriend a newly independent Scotland before it joins the EU or NATO and send in peacekeeping troops to monitor the actions of football fans on a Saturday afternoon just in case :0))

cptdodger
06-Jan-14, 18:15
Not invade but befriend. Haven,t you read Rogue Nation?

I can't say I have Bill. I have just looked it up, but I'm not sure if this is the book you are meaning ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_Nation_%28book%29

Keyser_soze
12-Jan-14, 10:57
When Scotjand votes for an Independent future next September the 3 big questions Europe, NATO, and the pound will obviously be settled through negoitation. Nobody seriously believes Scotland would not be successful in gaining all 3.

Aye and the toothfairy will be in my house tonight , ITS NEVER GONA HAPPEN . so dream on

billmoseley
12-Jan-14, 19:40
I can't say I have Bill. I have just looked it up, but I'm not sure if this is the book you are meaning ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_Nation_(book) try this one. http://www.scotsman.com/lifestyle/books/book-review-rogue-nation-1-1353707

cptdodger
13-Jan-14, 00:18
try this one. http://www.scotsman.com/lifestyle/books/book-review-rogue-nation-1-1353707

Thanks Bill, that looks very interesting !

joxville
13-Jan-14, 16:15
When Scotjand votes for an Independent future next September the 3 big questions Europe, NATO, and the pound will obviously be settled through negoitation. Nobody seriously believes Scotland would not be successful in gaining all 3.Have you anything else to add to this thread? A month has gone by since you started it and you've been quiet since then, aren't you going to counter people's arguments?

Mrs Bradey
13-Jan-14, 17:38
Have you anything else to add to this thread? A month has gone by since you started it and you've been quiet since then, aren't you going to counter people's arguments?I think piratelassie is in the same boat as lybster111 ! no debate (argument) in them.

orkneycadian
18-Jan-14, 22:41
I was going to ask (but I could'nt translate it into Russian !!) Why are the Russians so interested in us, surely they would not consider Scotland to be a threat to them ?

Well, if the contents of the "Yes!" Newspaper Election Communication propaganda is anything to go by, we are awash with so much oil in the North Sea, that an independent Scotland can afford to pay everyone in Scotland a £600 bonus if they vote yes.

What puzzles me is why 30 years ago, you could hardly move in Scapa Flow for oil tankers with 3 or 4 or more in there at any one time. Now there are so few, that Orkney Towage are on the brink of winding up, as the 1 tanker or less a month brings in so little revenue for them. In fact, there seems to be more Russian Warships around than there are tankers. Would Pirate Lassie like to explain why?

bekisman
29-Nov-15, 23:32
When Scotjand votes for an Independent future next September the 3 big questions Europe, NATO, and the pound will obviously be settled through negoitation. Nobody seriously believes Scotland would not be successful in gaining all 3.

Whoops wrong again!

davth
30-Nov-15, 07:38
Losers.......

squidge
30-Nov-15, 10:03
Beks have you nothing better to do than dredge up old threads from 2 years ago? Surely you are more imaginative than that

rob murray
30-Nov-15, 10:16
Beks have you nothing better to do than dredge up old threads from 2 years ago? Surely you are more imaginative than that

Europe, NATO, the pound and oil volatility (collapse) are as relevant now as they were 2 years ago, although you could make the case that theyre slightly irrelevant as theres to be no indy2 until conditions are favourable and favourble conditions will be centred around answers to these core questions along with proven econonomic sustainablity.

bekisman
30-Nov-15, 11:12
Beks have you nothing better to do than dredge up old threads from 2 years ago? Surely you are more imaginative than that

Oh come on Squidge, I was simply pointing out that some people try so very hard to ram ideas down one's throat, so it's delightful to say "hang on a minute, you got that wrong didn't you" surely you are not saying It's wrong to point this out? I am sure Piratelassie can stick up for her/his self without you wading in to protect her/him - will it be yet another PM?. My actual wording below this pertains to the FACT that Scotland voted NO and the weasel words of those who deny that it was ever said: "another referendum will not be for another generation" and yet straightaway renege on what they said.. You as an English SNP member know that a Referendum is a 'reserved matter' and nothing - such as voting to leave EU etc can be a 'trigger'.. I think I will replay that Desert Island Discs one with ms Sturgeon retelling how she cried when it looked like it would be a big fat NO. Never mind IF the UK votes to come out of the EU, it's only a referendum, so we can always ignore the results and have another one, that's the Nationalist way isn't it?

rob murray
30-Nov-15, 17:29
Oh come on Squidge, I was simply pointing out that some people try so very hard to ram ideas down one's throat, so it's delightful to say "hang on a minute, you got that wrong didn't you" surely you are not saying It's wrong to point this out? I am sure Piratelassie can stick up for her/his self without you wading in to protect her/him - will it be yet another PM?. My actual wording below this pertains to the FACT that Scotland voted NO and the weasel words of those who deny that it was ever said: "another referendum will not be for another generation" and yet straightaway renege on what they said.. You as an English SNP member know that a Referendum is a 'reserved matter' and nothing - such as voting to leave EU etc can be a 'trigger'.. I think I will replay that Desert Island Discs one with ms Sturgeon retelling how she cried when it looked like it would be a big fat NO. Never mind IF the UK votes to come out of the EU, it's only a referendum, so we can always ignore the results and have another one, that's the Nationalist way isn't it?



The SNP havent actually fully reneged, theyve sorta reneged, sturgeon has said indy 2 will occur when she judges that the SNP will win, and that they will be concentrating on governing over the immediate future.... she has to manage expectations of hard line yessers hasnt she. Given their oil fiscal sums were out by 6,000% and structural changes in North Sea oil activities ( things wont ever be the same there again ) she will need plenty of time to get ( ie if ever ) an economy that can sustain full independance, at least she recognises, unlike Salmon and hard hard liners, that it was the no perception of the economy and unanswered big questions that led to yes being rejected not late interjections of "the vow". SHe is on record with this ie these are not my words Im qouting from sturgeon and indeed swinney, so yes folk should just accept the situation, we are where are.