View Full Version : Food Prices if Scotland goes independent
RagnarRocks
10-Dec-13, 19:01
Curious to know people's views on the articles in the media today about the potential increase in food prices should Scotland become Independent. It would also appear that Stan Blackeley who is part of the Yes Campaign has stated that he wants tescos asda sainsburys and morrisons out of Scotland with the cost of 75000 jobs. Is this what you expect or want from and independent Scotland ?
Mrs Bradey
10-Dec-13, 19:16
Curious to know people's views on the articles in the media today about the potential increase in food prices should Scotland become Independent. It would also appear that Stan Blackeley who is part of the Yes Campaign has stated that he wants tescos asda sainsburys and morrisons out of Scotland with the cost of 75000 jobs. Is this what you expect or want from and independent Scotland ? quite ridiculous how on earth can he expect anyone to vote YES with crazy ideas of this nature. And if the vote is YES then; haggis and needs it is then!
So if this loony wants tesco, asda, sainsburys and morrisons out of Scotland then just who will fill the void?
So if this loony wants tesco, asda, sainsburys and morrisons out of Scotland then just who will fill the void?
Exactly, Eck & Nicola's cornershop?
Yet another scaremongering, mountain out of a molehill type thread... [disgust]
a) this guy was writing in a private capacity and not as the Yes Campaign. Not many people have supported him.
b) I have seen responses from Tesco's Morrisons, Asda & Lidl's saying they have no plans to increase prices if a yes vote. It depends on the taxes that a scottish government would have. Therefore they also say prices are as likely to come down as increase. This of course has not been report by the media.
A total non-story as most of these are.
RagnarRocks
10-Dec-13, 21:38
So a non story that's been reported in just about all the national newspapers and on the news channels odd how that happens all the time
Why let facts get in the way of a good story.
RagnarRocks
10-Dec-13, 21:45
Yes much better to read a 670 page fantasy document than actually deal with facts and figures
Hey folks.the moon is made of applewood smoked cheese..and I'm a Unionist politician/journalist/fellow Unionist forum poster.....and am selling it at £25 a pound.....which of you lot...who believe everything you are being told if you are told it by the "Union" via their lackeys and lickspittles, is is going to be first in the queue to hand over your fiver? (You are, you do realise, surely, no more guaranteed to get an edible applewood cheese flavoured wedge of the moon from me than Scotland is guaranteed not to get to use sterling, join NATO, join the EU, get any assets, keep the geographical share of the oil and gas,etc?
I know all you pro-Union posters find it hard to come up with benefits of being in the Union....and I do sympathise, really I do...but for the love of Pete...stop with the regurgitation of Project Fear crap..it is getting wearing......and how anyone would think that an unremiting. relentless series of scaremongering,threats and lies are going to do any more good for the NO campaign than the same tactics did for Labour in 2011 in the Scottish Elections beats me.
The FT did the pro-Union media twist to suit the Government..as usual. What was actually said by Morrison's company executive (or what was reported as being said by the FT) was “If the regulatory environment was to increase the burden of the cost structure on business, that would potentially have to be passed through to consumer pricing, because why should the English and Welsh consumer subsidise this increased cost of doing business in Scotland?” and what the Asda one said was “A yes vote in 2014 could result in Scotland being a less attractive investment proposition for business, and put further pressure on our costs.” Now that is fair enough....but how the heck the FT made their headline and first paragraph read as if it was a promise and not a possibility I'm blowed if I know...but then I can read....and they obviously cannot. No supermarket has said that prices will rise in an independent Scotland or that they are planning to do any such thing after Independence and those of you who are assuming the headline had much to do with the article really want to start reading past the first paragraph of an article. If you haven't actually read it all......it is here http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/064cc436-5e7e-11e3-8621-00144feabdc0.html
Of course, I suppose, given the tendencies of the UK media to hack and lie.....the FT may well have had a bug on the fly on the wall of the private room where the big grocers are privately talking about halting this practice [of absorbing the extra costs]if Scotland becomes an independent nation. Morrison's has said that prices will, (as prices always do, of course) depend on increased/decreased taxation/regulation. (which was what their boss said and the FT very liberally interpreted!) and other market forces..like competition. Tesco denied they had spoken to the Financial Times and Asda joined Morrison's in saying they had no plans to increase prices.
Interested in the concerns about investment......were they not the same concerns being shouted loud and long to any UK media representative who would report it as fact, by Michael Moore and other members of Cabinet a year or two back because of the "uncertainty" of Scotland's position within the UK because of the referendum...and didn't the number of foreign direct investment projects in Scotland increase by 16% in 2012-13, according to official figures, while UK Trade and Investment said the figure for the UK as a whole rose by 11%? Methinks it is more worrying for foreign investment not knowing if the UK is going to stay in the EU?
Have to say if it wasn't so pathetic it would almost be funny........ the part that says Ed Davey, energy secretary, has warned that Scottish Households would also face the risk of higher utility bills because at present its renewable industry gets disproportionate support from the rest of the UK might actually mean something if it wasn't for the fact that the North of Scotland is hoaching with bliddy windmills producing electricity...Scotland exports electricity to England........and we are still charged the highest prices per unit in the UK!!!!!!!![evil]
I'd be more worried about the costs of staying in the Union myself.......because if you all want the security blanket of certainty rather than take a punt on hope for the country and its children.....that is the best you are going to get......and UK future isn't looking too good.....(Headlines only as you all seem to prefer basing opinions on headlines only).....Analysis of autumn statement by Institute for Fiscal Studies predicts real incomes will be no higher in 2015 than in 2002. I could do you more from the Unionist media....like.....Britain can no longer afford the Welfare State says Osborne....or 800,000 people ‘lifted’ out of fuel poverty – by redefining it and People now in their forties will have to wait until they are 68 to receive the State Pension....and lots more!
RagnarRocks
10-Dec-13, 22:56
You're entitled to your opinion but do you honestly believe calling people with opposing views lackeys and lickspittles will enamour any sane person to your cause I didn't bother reading a word past that . Well done how to disenfranchise people from debate !
So if this loony wants tesco, asda, sainsburys and morrisons out of Scotland then just who will fill the void?
Aldi and Lidl?
Aldi and Lidl?
Only if your still in the EU, and that I dont think so
You're entitled to your opinion but do you honestly believe calling people with opposing views lackeys and lickspittles will enamour any sane person to your cause I didn't bother reading a word past that . Well done how to disenfranchise people from debate !
I meant the media which tells the forum posters what to regurgitate......I generally call the media lackeys and lickspittles..or words in the same vein, because they are. Maybe shouldn't have tacked on the forum posters because of the applewood smoked cheese moon pitch....but hey......if you want to take offence.....feel free! It is, after all, a good excuse not to have to read posts.
So if this loony wants tesco, asda, sainsburys and morrisons out of Scotland then just who will fill the void?
Aldi and Lidl?Eh! :eek: Where's this pro German anti English campaign come from?
RagnarRocks
11-Dec-13, 09:44
It's the way forward for independent Scotland support and ingratiate yourself with any other country bar rUK. Russian and Chinese warships docked on the Clyde next :0))
It's the way forward for independent Scotland support and ingratiate yourself with any other country bar rUK. Russian and Chinese warships docked on the Clyde next :0))
It would be better than Trident! :Razz Why bother to ingratiate ourselves with a Government and its pet media intent on scaremongering, smearing and downright lying because they have nothing else to say......and not for the first time?
http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-opinion/8453-a-supermarket-price-war-independence-style
RagnarRocks
11-Dec-13, 22:59
It would be better than Trident! :Razz Why bother to ingratiate ourselves with a Government and its pet media intent on scaremongering, smearing and downright lying because they have nothing else to say......and not for the first time? http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-opinion/8453-a-supermarket-price-war-independence-styleYou mean like the don't ask don't tell rule which Mr Salmond would probably use to ensure the Americans can still use Faslane and get Scotland into NATO . Also I don't get how you can keep using this blanket term of the governments pet media its not really realistic the media do align themselves sometimes with governments but they also slate them whenever it suits. All the parties smear and lie and its delusional to think the SNP are any different or that an independent Scotland will become some land of Milk and Honey. You seem to espouse the rule of take a chance on Independence because it will be so much better but all I hear is a lot of socialist rhetoric but non of it based on substantive facts or figures which aren't picked apart immediately by a whole host of varied bodies. Some are Uk based others not. It is the job of separatists to convince everyone else why it would be so good to be Independent as of yet I've not seen a single thing which has not got more holes in than Rab C Nesbits vest being presented. Trident is an issue for some but the anti nuclear brigade aren't as vocal as they used to be the public less concerned for the majority you don't see the big protests anymore but people seeing the prices of energy soaring are asking why such a vocal minority are stopping nuclear stations being built...Times have changed since the 70s and 80s greenham common and those types of protestors don't get the credibility they used to anymore. So lets try hearing some facts which will convince me that its worth taking such a big risk which will effect generations to come. It will stop nuclear submarines docking at Faslane isn't a good one,as there will still be nuke subs out there and American ones still docking full of nukes.
Hmmm, so it is preferable to see a Russian or Chinese nuclear weapons system in Scotland than a rUK (read English (friendly)) one.
Hmmm, so it is preferable to see a Russian or Chinese nuclear weapons system in Scotland than a rUK (read English (friendly)) one.
On current showing...where do you get friendly rUK, honestly? Where did I say nuclear weapons system and stockpile....and anyway do surface ships carry nuclear weapons nowadays?
RagnarRocks
12-Dec-13, 00:22
On current showing...where do you get friendly rUK, honestly? Where did I say nuclear weapons system and stockpile....and anyway do surface ships carry nuclear weapons nowadays?Don't ask, don't tell. Who knows what's on board what and where at anytime
Bill Fernie
12-Dec-13, 14:26
I think the main factors affecting our food prices are set out in this article in the Telegraph on 9th December 2013
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/consumertips/household-bills/10504187/Steak-to-become-a-luxury-item-as-food-prices-tipped-to-soar-by-as-much-as-6-in-2014.html
I (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/consumertips/household-bills/10504187/Steak-to-become-a-luxury-item-as-food-prices-tipped-to-soar-by-as-much-as-6-in-2014.html)ndependence is unlikely to be the a big factor. World demand, fuel and energy costs are the main factors and these have all been rising. Wages have been held down for a couple of years but if that change then this will add to the upward spiral.
We may not al be able to grow our own meat or fish but perhaps we can all grow a few more vegetables in gardens if we have one. The interest in allotments has been rising and this looks set to continue for people who have families to feed.
On current showing...where do you get friendly rUK, honestly?Do you honestly think there is a military risk to an Indy Scotland from rUK?
*...goes to man the barricades*
Do you honestly think there is a military risk to an Indy Scotland from rUK?
*...goes to man the barricades*
We have oil......they'll be in on the coat-tails of the USA as they come after it..but shouldn't think they'll start anything themselves (as long as Trident is still on the Clyde! :Razz
I think the No campaign is doing itself and the Union no favours if we do vote NO after the tactics they have used so far.....one thing about we Scots is that we have long memories for slights! .
It will be interesting to see what the Union will be like if we vote NO......the Westminster lot only have 9 days before the Electoral Commission deadline to set out what is going to happen after a NO vote. Problem with them promising anything is that they rarely keep their promises.
. Problem with them promising anything is that they rarely keep their promises.
how about the wish list that Eck published, at our expense, will that ever be able to come true? I do not belive in Santa Clause or the tooth fairy
how about the wish list that Eck published, at our expense, will that ever be able to come true? I do not belive in Santa Clause or the tooth fairy
That would be the same our expense as all the Westminster produced papers on how poor, wee and stupid Scots are..and how much we need to swing from England's teat.....the ones we have paid for and are still paying for with regular monotony....and will pay for if they ever get round to producing their positive vision for Scotland in the Union........that our expense? :roll: I don't believe in Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy either....which one is Cameron and which is Clegg......want a list of the promises they made to get elected......and have since ignored? And you thrust them to be truthful and decent? :confused
Writing in the Herald today (Thursday) ASDA Chief Executive Andy Clarke stated “I am not saying prices have to rise in an independent Scotland. I am saying that politicians of all sides need to work with business if they want to reduce the cost of doing business and in turn the cost of living.”Morrisons earlier in the week said it was wrong to suggest they had said prices would rise in an independent Scotland and that “if an independent Scotland increased or decreased regulation or taxes we'd have to take a second look at our pricing. Clearly that could work for or against Scottish customers depending on the direction of travel.”Tesco have already distanced themselves from this assertion earlier in the week. So there you have it from the companies themselves.
I don't believe in Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy either
to me Eck would be Santa, and his clone Nicola would be the Tooth Fairy, how can anyone believe in those pair?
Better Out Than In
13-Dec-13, 15:00
I agree with earlier thread. Food prices are likely to be dictated by external factors. Supermarkets keep supply chain prices low (what farmers get paid) so whether good to keep them or get rid of them being depends on your perspective. Their mark up on food is actually very low. I doubt even SNP would directly drive them out but could tax them out over time. As much as I dislike fat Salmon and his dictatorial style, I can't but agree that the SNP has done some good things.
It is up to the YES vote to clearly state benefits. Scotland already punches above its weight internationally from within the UK. It may sink into non-existence if separated. I have yet to see underpinned facts and figures that support the YES vote so to me it is launching a whole country into the unknown. It may work, especially short term, but most probably (as that is the way the risks are weighted) it won't work - especially long term.
At the moment I am not against a YES vote but will remain on the safe side with NO until given a proper justified explanation as to why YES is better.
At the moment I am not against a YES vote but will remain on the safe side with NO until given a proper justified explanation as to why YES is better.
What is not being spoken about except in England & Wales is the scrapping or changing of the Barnett formula and not to Scotland's benefit.
Also the correction of 'Lothian question' i.e. scottish MP's not voting on devolved issues. Fair enough except Scottish MP's will be restricted as to the jobs they can do as they maybe banned from voting on measure affecting the department that work in. Maybe even no Scottish PM ever, as half of the bills their government try to pass they would not be able to vote for.
I agree with earlier thread. Food prices are likely to be dictated by external factors. Supermarkets keep supply chain prices low (what farmers get paid) so whether good to keep them or get rid of them being depends on your perspective. Their mark up on food is actually very low. I doubt even SNP would directly drive them out but could tax them out over time. As much as I dislike fat Salmon and his dictatorial style, I can't but agree that the SNP has done some good things.
It is up to the YES vote to clearly state benefits. Scotland already punches above its weight internationally from within the UK. It may sink into non-existence if separated. I have yet to see underpinned facts and figures that support the YES vote so to me it is launching a whole country into the unknown. It may work, especially short term, but most probably (as that is the way the risks are weighted) it won't work - especially long term.
At the moment I am not against a YES vote but will remain on the safe side with NO until given a proper justified explanation as to why YES is better.
According to the Electoral Commission it is up to both sides of the discussion/argument to produce their vision for the consequences/possibilities of both a YES and a NO vote by 21st December. We have the YES version...and we await the NO version with interest..but will bear in mind that the devil is in the detail.......as while the Scotland Act 2012 sounds good in bullet points.....it is going to cost us twice for services we already pay for...just as Scottish Businesses under the Scottish Trade body,if they attempt b to get our foreign embassies to host the same kind of affairs as they do for the UK Trade equivalent, have to pay £3000 on top of what we already do as part of the UK.
Care to quantify just on which body Scotland carries any weight? It would be more realistic to say that the UK punches above its weight because it has Trident parked on the Clyde. Apart from the SNP MPs in Westminster, there is nobody representing Scotland on anything.at all...they are all representing the UK and voting for what is best for the UK.....and that is what benefits London and the South of England in practice.
RagnarRocks
15-Dec-13, 09:38
And if you'd of lived down in sunny England you'd be hearing how Scottish MPs always vote against everything which stops the uk improving, its a silly argument because politicians of all sides really don't care that much about the rest of the country,its quite normal for them to be more of the listen to me because I'm always right type rather than caring about constituents until its voting time. Now when you consider that people seem to complain that RUk is so wealthy and does nothing for Scotland might it be time to consider that voting the way you always do may have an adverse effect on wealth creation. Just a thought if you wonder why swimming against the tide is such a wonderful idea.
And if you'd of lived down in sunny England you'd be hearing how Scottish MPs always vote against everything which stops the uk improving, its a silly argument because politicians of all sides really don't care that much about the rest of the country,its quite normal for them to be more of the listen to me because I'm always right type rather than caring about constituents until its voting time. Now when you consider that people seem to complain that RUk is so wealthy and does nothing for Scotland might it be time to consider that voting the way you always do may have an adverse effect on wealth creation. Just a thought if you wonder why swimming against the tide is such a wonderful idea.
But that's the whole point of wanting out from under the Westminster thumb, RR........the very fact that people living in sunny England actually believe that rolling back the welfare state, privatising just about everything which isn't nailed down, allowing big businesses and the richer elements of society avoid/evade tax with impunity, going to war at the behest of the USA, the replacement of Trident (as long as it's next to Glasgow and not in the South of England), an increase in Food Banks from 300 in 2008 to 14300 in 2013 etc improve the UK.
I assume they would also think it is fine that the EU CAP convergence money due to Scottish farmers this year (about £233 million) is being distributed by Westminster over the whole UK....while applauding the ingathering of CAP amounts like £748,716 by the Duke of Westminster, £730,628 by the Queen etc?
Where do you get the idea that voting for the SNP in elections....or voting YES in a referendum would have an adverse effect on wealth creation? Do you have examples you can cite? I'd have thought the biggest problem re wealth creation would be the uncertainty as to whether the UK is going to be in or out of the EU. Certainly, despite Westminster scaremongering, Scotland appears to be doing better regarding inward investment than the UK as a whole.
Personally, I'd rather swim against the tide than tread water trying not to go under for the umpteenth time.
RagnarRocks
15-Dec-13, 18:00
Well trident is a bit of a white herring most people of both nations believe that having a strong deterrent is worth having and the only reason Faslane is picked is because of its geographic postion if Portsmouth or Plymouth offered the same facilities the subs would dock there. And currently whilst perpetually stating their desire to be rid of nuclear weapons the SNPs policy is very vague around the actuality.Creation of wealth is very important because it funds all the social welfare programmes, I keep hearing about privatising the NHS and scaling back benefits but the whole system does need sorting it out, its overloaded with managers and lacking in frontline staff which is what I see happening at the moment. The benefits system should be a catch net for those unable to help themselves not a lifestyle choice which most people agree with. So I'd say reforming these institutions is required unless you think just dishing out money for managers and dossers is acceptable. Those people are the ones who are taking healthcare and money from the genuinely needy.As for food banks yes they are an unfortunate example of the disaster that happened a few years ago and the economy will take time to recover so hopefully in time the need for those will vanish as well, but on the same hand I've no doubt there are those taking the food who don't genuinely need it, I bet you'll see people there who still drink and smoke so I've my issues with food banks although in principle they are a good thing if helping only those in genuine need not those who just take advantage of the system. I'd prefer a system that wasn't linked to subsidies via Europe for agriculture as our farms tend to be mor efficient than those in most of Europe so as far as cap etc is concerned its a corrupt European method of taking £10 from us giving us £5 back and saying aren't we lucky.Its not for me to decide whether its better to have big business's here or down south the reality is even an independent Scotland would need those wealth producing companies with their executives to make an independent Scotland wealthy so nothng there would change just more bureaucracy more fat cats which seems to defeat your argument, unless you're suggesting an independent Scotland has some mystical way of raising Billions to make the economy viable without big business that no one else knows about.Seems to me an independent Scotland is more about idealism than reality as I've yet to see or read any hard facts on how we would be better off.Now why is it every time the Government says to Alex no that's not the case, or Europe,NATO disagree with Mr Salmomds assertions that he can use the pound join Europe and NATO no probs its scaremongering, the fact is its reality he will have to negotiate for everything as a new country and isn't likely to get all or even some of what he wants. big Business ask questions its reported as facts not just questions that need answering. It appears to me the pro independence lobby have done a great job at launching a 670 page manifesto that's very light on hard facts and figures and then just shuts down anyone who asks those awkward but as yet unanswered questions.Like North Sea gas if we are supposed to rely on this for so much income why are we buying American shale gas.
And let us not forget this massive problem was brought to us under the stewardship of messr Blair,Brown the wonderful Labour Party 13 yrs of inefficient govts wasteful spending corruption and illegal wars. What is it makes you think things are going to be so much better ?
Well trident
snoring
so much better ?
Para, para, paragraphs, paragraphs, paragraphs...
Para, para, paragraphs, paragraphs, paragraphs...
Wow, great to see evidence of original thinking here.
RagnarRocks
17-Dec-13, 18:47
Para, para, paragraphs, paragraphs, paragraphs...Sorry its harder reading than the beano or dandy I shall try simplify in future..
Sorry its harder reading than the beano or dandy I shall try simplify in future..
I notice that you commented on a previous post that you stopped reading after encountering phrases you didn't like - an unbroken block of text is just boring looking.
White space makes for a more enjoyable read - have a look in any book.
Except maybe the phone book...
Wow, great to see evidence of original thinking here.
Ah, plagiarism as well ? LOL
RagnarRocks
17-Dec-13, 19:39
I notice that you commented on a previous post that you stopped reading after encountering phrases you didn't like - an unbroken block of text is just boring looking.White space makes for a more enjoyable read - have a look in any book.Except maybe the phone book...Oooh you're reading my posts I can send you an autographed copy if you like would you prefer ,Kleenex or Andrex ? but bear in mind I believe in recycling :0))
Ah, plagiarism as well ? LOL
Busted! :roll: If I just copy other people's posts it saves me going to the trouble of having to think of anything to say.
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