View Full Version : Car Tax Discs Scrapped
Car tax discs moving into the modern age and going electronic now with a monthly DD option, seems like a sensible plan from the chancellor.
Perhaps, but what about people who can not do a Direct Debit? Also with the disc on a car it is easy to see who has or has not paid. So how do you check if a person is up you date with their monthly payments?
Personally I think the system of a Tax Disc is still the best way.
Annual and 6 monthly payment options will be retained. Officials check vehicle taxation electronically at the moment therefore no change. No one else needs to know about cars tax status.
You do if you are buying a second hand car!
You do if you are buying a second hand car!
If you are buying one from me, assume there is no tax. :lol:
(presumably you can print a receipt or sumink same as for insurance).
You do if you are buying a second hand car! price it as untaxed unless evidence can be provided
RagnarRocks
05-Dec-13, 14:25
I'm sure they'll put in place some method to check if a cars taxed I always do mine online nowadays much easier than pulling out all the paperwork then trudging to the post office waiting in a queue etc
I can't see the Gvot spending money on ANPR cameras up here [lol]
I can't see the Gvot spending money on ANPR cameras up here [lol]
they have mobile ones, same as a camera van really.
i would imagine that their database will flag up offenders immediatley anyway
they have mobile ones, same as a camera van really.
i would imagine that their database will flag up offenders immediatley anyway
Oh you mean like the dirty white van with the missing tail light unit and no road tax thats been driving round Wick for the last few months?
Unless there is a rise in the police presence, which we all know is the exact opposite, many chancers will get away with not paying road tax, MOT or insurance!
Oh you mean like the dirty white van with the missing tail light unit and no road tax thats been driving round Wick for the last few months?
Unless there is a rise in the police presence, which we all know is the exact opposite, many chancers will get away with not paying road tax, MOT or insurance!
how do you know its not taxed?
they have mobile ones, same as a camera van really.
i would imagine that their database will flag up offenders immediatley anyway
We see these mobile ones quite often sitting at the side of the M8
gmcborgie
05-Dec-13, 18:20
There has been ANPR cameras on the Kessock bridge for some time now, I don't see why they wouldn't bring them further north!
think they have a no plate recognition cam in Wick. why not it s the way to go. checks everything mot. road tax, insurance.
There will be more untaxed cars on the road... Period.
No need to worry about an interfering member of the public grassing you up.
A thought.
DD payments mean damn all with a paper disc, if you cancel the DD after the first payment, 'cos you still have it as pointed out previously.
The suggested DD option suggested by the government is simply a way of adding 5% revenue to the current tax take for the benefit of paying monthly.
A more important sticker I would prefer to see in your car windscreen is that you have insurance.
Surely that is a more important concern?
The same flaw of cancelling after first DD payment applies of course.
However, lacking insurance is a bigger issue than road tax which is simply another method of general taxation?
Displaying an insurance disc in your window which is NOT valid is a much more serious offence, and would be treated as such hopefully?
A thought.
DD payments mean damn all with a paper disc, if you cancel the DD after the first payment, 'cos you still have it as pointed out previously.
The suggested DD option suggested by the government is simply a way of adding 5% revenue to the current tax take for the benefit of paying monthly.
A more important sticker I would prefer to see in your car windscreen is that you have insurance.
Surely that is a more important concern?
The same flaw of cancelling after first DD payment applies of course.
However, lacking insurance is a bigger issue than road tax which is simply another method of general taxation?
Displaying an insurance disc in your window which is NOT valid is a much more serious offence, and would be treated as such hopefully? ANPR and police spot checks already take care of non taxed and insured, no need for any discs
If your car isn't taxed, the road risk on the insurance is invalid anyway.
If your car isn't taxed, the road risk on the insurance is invalid anyway. fair comment but you could be taxed but not insured or mot'd or have a valid drivers license
neilsermk1
06-Dec-13, 13:35
Why bother with road fund licence (Tax Disc) at all.
Put the taxation on the fuel, then everyone contributes depending on how much fuel they use. You can then sack an entire government department.
Use the MOT system to issue a licence.
That would add roughly 13p on a litre of fuel Ok for a low mileage driver But think of the lost revenue from multi vehicle owners Don't follow the liscence issue via mot though
Strange but I've been issued with a licence reminder today.
Strange but I've been issued with a licence reminder today.
Why is it strange? Did it run out in June?
RagnarRocks
07-Dec-13, 01:04
I'm more concerned with unroadworthy vehicles running without MOTS, than lack of a tax disc although not paying for your RFL does invalidate your insurance. Personally if it was my world you'd get a five year ban just for putting others at risk then be forced to sit an advanced test with some form of psychiatric testing to see if you're actually a fit person to be allowed in charge of a motor vehicle.
Why bother with road fund licence (Tax Disc) at all.
Put the taxation on the fuel, then everyone contributes depending on how much fuel they use. You can then sack an entire government department.
Use the MOT system to issue a licence.
Please don't talk crap!!
although not paying for your RFL does invalidate your insurance.
Says who?
............
If your car isn't taxed, the road risk on the insurance is invalid anyway.
Where do you get that idea from?
And what is the "road risk?"
Where do you get that idea from?
And what is the "road risk?" if you have no RFL you car is not permitted on public roads therefore any insurance held for use on the public road becomes null and void.
if you have no RFL you car is not permitted on public roads
Yes.
therefore any insurance held for use on the public road becomes null and void.
You're making that bit up.
No I am not A clause in your policy will state your car must be roadworthy
No I am not A clause in your policy will state your car must be roadworthy
Yes, but that's the condition of the car.
If you disagree, find an authoritative reference.
Ask your insurer if they will pay out should you crash your car whilst un taxed.
Ask your insurer if they will pay out should you crash your car whilst un taxed.
What if you crash your car on your way to get it MOT'd which needs to be done before you can tax it?
What if you crash your car on your way to get it MOT'd which needs to be done before you can tax it?
There is a special provision in law to get around this. If your MOT appointment is pre-arranged then you are insured but it has to be with the nearest MOT station.
KnowItAll
07-Dec-13, 18:32
unless your insurance policy has a clause that states your policy is invalid without a vehicle excise duty disk then it is valid.
It is legal to drive to a pre booked MOT test without one, or back from a test, or to a place of repair in connection with a test...
However the current law is actually to do with the display of the disc, so even if you posses a valid tax disc and for some reason are not displaying you commit an offence
Ask your insurer if they will pay out should you crash your car whilst un taxed.
They've tried to get out of paying, on excuses more feeble than that, but they would be liable for your claim.
There is a special provision in law to get around this. If your MOT appointment is pre-arranged then you are insured but it has to be with the nearest MOT station.
That arrangement is not directly connected to insurance.
You don't need the tax disc, you don't need MoT, you do need insurance and the vehicle must be roadworthy, to drive directly to and from the test station.
KnowItAll
07-Dec-13, 18:41
What if you crash your car on your way to get it MOT'd which needs to be done before you can tax it?
What if the car is legally parked on your own property, whilst SORN'd, without an MOT and someone crashes into it...
KnowItAll
07-Dec-13, 18:43
That arrangement is not directly connected to insurance.
You don't need the tax disc, you don't need MoT, you do need insurance and the vehicle must be roadworthy, to drive directly to and from the test station.
All cars must be roadworthy at all times, however many are not. MOT does not prove roadworthiness, even as you drive away with a shiny new MOT receipt.
At last- KnowItAll is here!
Let's leave it to her.
What if the car is legally parked on your own property, whilst SORN'd, without an MOT and someone crashes into it...Their insurance will pay out.
KnowItAll
07-Dec-13, 18:58
as they will if it is parked on the road outside your property, or being driven, unless there is a specific clause in the policy which states that your policy is invalid if you do not have a current tax disc. They cannot do so because that would be trying to exclude a legal provision that states you can drive a car on the road without a valid tax disc.
Having worked in insurance for 34 years until I retired 3 years ago, 12 of those years as a senior claims manager, I have never come across a single policy which purports to invalidate your insurance for no tax disc.
Where do you get that idea from?
And what is the "road risk?"
The insurance document/schedule/contract (if you read it). It means depending on your policy, it may be covered for theft or damage or fire, but not on the road.
as they will if it is parked on the road outside your property, or being driven, unless there is a specific clause in the policy which states that your policy is invalid if you do not have a current tax disc. They cannot do so because that would be trying to exclude a legal provision that states you can drive a car on the road without a valid tax disc.
Having worked in insurance for 34 years until I retired 3 years ago, 12 of those years as a senior claims manager, I have never come across a single policy which purports to invalidate your insurance for no tax disc.
You must have missed the memo about 30 years or so ago.
If you are so convinced go and have a crash in an un-taxed car and see if they pay the claim.
KnowItAll
07-Dec-13, 19:07
You must have missed the memo about 30 years or so ago.
If you are so convinced go and have a crash in an un-taxed car and see if they pay the claim.
Your policy may have an exclusion, maybe you could post a scan or photo of the particular clause?
I've paid out several dozen claims in that situation, the biggest of which was hefty 6 figures due to personal injury to three passengers...
Your policy may have an exclusion, maybe you could post a scan or photo of the particular clause?
I've paid out several dozen claims in that situation, the biggest of which was hefty 6 figures due to personal injury to three passengers...
Like I scan all my documents just to prove a nutter wrong.:lol:
KnowItAll
07-Dec-13, 19:15
Like I scan all my documents just to prove a nutter wrong.:lol:
Not asking for all your documents, just one clause, of one document. Alernatively feel free to let me know which underwriter provides your cover and I'll find their policy docs and scan the relative clause for you.
In all the times in all the forums I have asked for an image of such a clause no-one has ever provided one. It is just an urban myth. Some elements of the claim may be struck out on an item by item basis, but your policy is never invalidated because of the lack of a tax disc. It might be that you don't get paid for the claim you put in for your own vehicle damage, but all third party liability will still be paid out. In many cases the claim will be paid in full including damage to your own vehicle, it will as always depend on the individual circumstances of the case.
Not asking for all your documents, just one clause, of one document. Alernatively feel free to let me know which underwriter provides your cover and I'll find their policy docs and scan the relative clause for you.
In all the times in all the forums I have asked for an image of such a clause no-one has ever provided one. It is just an urban myth. Some elements of the claim may be struck out on an item by item basis, but your policy is never invalidated because of the lack of a tax disc. It might be that you don't get paid for the claim you put in for your own vehicle damage, but all third party liability will still be paid out. In many cases the claim will be paid in full including damage to your own vehicle, it will as always depend on the individual circumstances of the case. perhaps I was not talking in the correct jargon, I was taking it as read that 3rd party would be paid, I was referring to the policyholders claim
KnowItAll
07-Dec-13, 19:27
but if a policy is invalid no-one gets paid out. As I said it is decided on a case by case basis. Your insurance company will probably start by saying no, but when challenged almost everyone gets paid if the reason for refusal is lack of tax disc.
but if a policy is invalid no-one gets paid out. As I said it is decided on a case by case basis. Your insurance company will probably start by saying no, but when challenged almost everyone gets paid if the reason for refusal is lack of tax disc. I can see that, like I said I was not using the correct jargon. I note you say ALMOST everyone, so not in every case then.
KnowItAll
07-Dec-13, 19:37
I should also say that I completely agree with your OP, about the first good idea from this government. Let the dinosaurs insist on paying by cheque in a lump sum, I'll have 12 monthly installments by DD any day of the week.
I normally pay the year up front online
You also have the loss of revenue for the independent post offices. Another nail in the coffin for them!
what do you reckon the PO makes out of the sale of a tax disc?
Cannot be more than a couple of pence surely, if that even.
RagnarRocks
07-Dec-13, 22:06
Seems a lots changed in the last three years
neilsermk1
08-Dec-13, 23:07
That would add roughly 13p on a litre of fuel Ok for a low mileage driver But think of the lost revenue from multi vehicle owners Don't follow the liscence issue via mot though
The more fuel you use is probably a fair indication of how much you use the roads. Ignore the small amount of fuel for lawnmowers etc. So the more you use the roads the more fuel you use, it even gets round the gripe of I cant ride my motor bike at the same time I am driving my car so why should I pay 2 road fund licences.
The bit about the MOT goes like this. It is a requirement of the road traffic act and probably your insurance policy that your car is in a roadworthy condition.
All vehicles which use the roads should have an MOT test every year, even new cars, and a disc issued on the basis of passing the test.
I know some out there will correctly point out that it is only valid at the time of the test, but I believe it is a good starting point.
It would sort out the SORN silliness.
The more fuel you use is probably a fair indication of how much you use the roads. Ignore the small amount of fuel for lawnmowers etc. So the more you use the roads the more fuel you use, it even gets round the gripe of I cant ride my motor bike at the same time I am driving my car so why should I pay 2 road fund licences.
The bit about the MOT goes like this. It is a requirement of the road traffic act and probably your insurance policy that your car is in a roadworthy condition.
All vehicles which use the roads should have an MOT test every year, even new cars, and a disc issued on the basis of passing the test.
I know some out there will correctly point out that it is only valid at the time of the test, but I believe it is a good starting point. ok but what is the point of the disc? On thinking about it 13p seems rather conservative now, that wasn't taking into account the multi car families that as you say can only work one vehicle at a time. Maybe 18p would be nearer the mark for the government to maintain status quo on revenue
It would sort out the SORN silliness.sorn is not any bother to keep on top of
When i lived in Germany 20 years ago, if i remember rightly, they used a system whereby you purchase a pair of registration plates from the motor department. When you buy a vehicle (new or 2h) you must show that you have plates, insurance and that the vehicle is tested and you get a circular insurance tag and a TUV (MOT) circular tag and then you get the tags officially put on by the motor department. only then can you put your registration plates on that vehicle. Road tax was around £10 a year. The plates meant that you are insured and the vehicle roadworthy. You couldn't sell a car with the plates on it as they had to be handed in when you sold it or when you wanted to dispose of the vehicle you hand the plates back in to the motor department, failure to do so meant a hefty fine.
neilsermk1
08-Dec-13, 23:30
When i lived in Germany 20 years ago, if i remember rightly, they used a system whereby you purchase a pair of registration plates from the motor department. When you buy a vehicle (new or 2h) you must show that you have plates, insurance and that the vehicle is tested and you get a circular insurance tag and a TUV (MOT) circular tag and then you get the tags officially put on by the motor department. only then can you put your registration plates on that vehicle. Road tax was around £10 a year. The plates meant that you are insured and the vehicle roadworthy. You couldn't sell a car with the plates on it as they had to be handed in when you sold it or when you wanted to dispose of the vehicle you hand the plates back in to the motor department, failure to do so meant a hefty fine.
This Is what I had in mind for the MOT cert. But the number plate way is a better idea
RagnarRocks
09-Dec-13, 08:25
The German system is good and if you do work on your car you still have to take it to a garage and have a mechanic check out that your work is up to scratch. Hence you don't see many self build cars as the cost becomes prohibitive but it does stop a lot of dangerous self maintained cars getting on the road
I dont see what all the clamour about adopting this or that system is all about.
What benifit can come from an MOT disc on a persons screen?
As things stand the DVLA and police can see at a glance if a car has all the relevant paperwork in place.
So whats the problem with the UK system?
WRT to the comment on self built cars, a self built car in the UK must pass an IVA prior to being register for use on the road, the IVA is a much more stringent test than the UK MOT to ensure the build quality and that all safety requirements have been met.
Wars have been fought to keep "German systems" out of here!
neilsermk1
09-Dec-13, 13:11
Please don't talk crap!!
explain please
RagnarRocks
10-Dec-13, 21:27
Curious as to how knowitall has spent 34 years doing insurance . Served in the Falklands and done tours of NI with a service number of 2462 mines 2460 and I'm only 50 the numbers don't add up I smell bovine excrement
Bobinovich
10-Dec-13, 22:02
Can you clear some PM space RR...
It does seem like a busy career
RagnarRocks
10-Dec-13, 23:17
Unfeasibly condensed unless the reme where doing insurance work on mount tumbledown at the time who knows maybe they needed a bit of vehicle Insurance in those conditions
The other problem thats well battered on here is boy racers. If the govt do actually go the "original spec" route then it means that there will be absolutely no modified vehciles allowed on UK roads. The Germans have a TUV (MOT) for everything that doesn't come as standard with the vehicle so if you lower the suspension, fit better shocks, change the exhaust, fit better brakes, tint the windows, change the wheels ( and tyres) skim and port the head, fit better carburettor, fit a racing clutch....etc etc then thats at least another 10 TUV fees you have to pay every year. Imagine all the sulking skint boy racers.....
The other problem thats well battered on here is boy racers. If the govt do actually go the "original spec" route then it means that there will be absolutely no modified vehciles allowed on UK roads. The Germans have a TUV (MOT) for everything that doesn't come as standard with the vehicle so if you lower the suspension, fit better shocks, change the exhaust, fit better brakes, tint the windows, change the wheels ( and tyres) skim and port the head, fit better carburettor, fit a racing clutch....etc etc then thats at least another 10 TUV fees you have to pay every year. Imagine all the sulking skint boy racers.....Do you need a separate test for each mod each year?
RagnarRocks
11-Dec-13, 09:37
Nope each modification needs to be inspected if you do all the mods in one hit then they get inspected in one hit but the price of them being certified by a qualified mechanic prior to your TUV would make it just a cheap as getting the mechanic to do it in the first place. That's why most don't bother
Nope each modification needs to be inspected if you do all the mods in one hit then they get inspected in one hit but the price of them being certified by a qualified mechanic prior to your TUV would make it just a cheap as getting the mechanic to do it in the first place. That's why most don't bother
Ah my bad, i thought that the TUV station inspected each part and charged you separate fees. But i suppose the mechanic doing the inspection would charge just as much anyway. Just goes to show during the conversation with the mechanic over there that my German was bad...really bad
There will be more untaxed cars on the road... Period.The shift to an all electronic system will effectively remove the need for any physical checks. Your vehicle needs to be either taxed or sorn'ed, failure on either will lead to an automatic fine.
Like I scan all my documents just to prove a nutter wrong.:lol:
Could you send a scan of your bank accounts, passport etc. etc.
Also what's you PIN?
(asking for a friend)
Could you send a scan of your bank accounts, passport etc. etc.
Also what's you PIN?
(asking for a friend)
Damn! I didn't know you wanted a scan, I've already sent the originals to some bloke in Nigeria. I'm sure they will be back soon though. :D
RagnarRocks
11-Dec-13, 19:17
Ah my bad, i thought that the TUV station inspected each part and charged you separate fees. But i suppose the mechanic doing the inspection would charge just as much anyway. Just goes to show during the conversation with the mechanic over there that my German was bad...really badI always find the most fluent German is spoken after a few steins and a bottle of apfelkorn especially if you've had a curry wurst and chips prior :0)) but that was Munster Ortze 32 aer they speak different up that neck of the woods all those schneverdingers lol
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