Independent Scotland and EU Immigration

[RagnarRocks]

Just curious how people feel should Scotland become independent and stay within the EU. I'm not an expert on this but it would appear that the social benefits of living I'm Scotland will out strip those available to the United Kimgdom, .i.e ,free prescriptions, free education etc Given that the United Kingdom is currently feeling the effects of immigration from within the EU would Scotland then become the new place to go for a life and how would it affect the social dynamics of such a small country and the countries budget.

[Gronnuck]

"Stay within the EU." It has already been made clear by thon Spanish heid-honcho chappie with the unpronouncable name that as a new country Scotland would have to apply for membership just like everyone else. Even if we did become members by that time we'll be as poor as Romania and Bulgaria so people wouldn't want to come here anyway.

[Shabbychic]

I think you'll find the answers here (http://www.yesscotland.net/answers/what-about-immigration) and here (http://www.yesscotland.net/answers/what-about-european-union).

[Gronnuck]

I think you'll find the answers here (http://www.yesscotland.net/answers/what-about-immigration) and here (http://www.yesscotland.net/answers/what-about-european-union).You're links only explain the aspirations of the Yes campaign, not the process, terms and conditions and the undoubted reaction of the EU to Scotland's application for membership.The propaganda you quote says Scotland will be able to take its place at Europe's top table. Is that the same one Latvia, Estonia and Cyprus sit at? Hardly esteemed company.

[weezer 316]

We are dying for immigrants. In case you haven't noticed we desperately need immigration and need it now.

[Alice in Blunderland]

An interesting read http://news.sky.com/story/1164087/immigrants-contribute-25bn-tax-boost-to-uk

Seems like migrant workers contribute more into the system than they take out according to this study.

[Shabbychic]

You're links only explain the aspirations of the Yes campaign, not the process, terms and conditions and the undoubted reaction of the EU to Scotland's application for membership.The propaganda you quote says Scotland will be able to take its place at Europe's top table. Is that the same one Latvia, Estonia and Cyprus sit at? Hardly esteemed company.

Wooooow......Propaganda is it?? I just love it. Folkies come on here and demand answers, and if they don't fit in with their ideas, it's lies and propaganda. It's actually foresight you're looking for, and I'm afraid most of us just don't do foresight too well.....sorry.

You vote how you want, no skin off my nose. A question was asked and I attempted to suggest further reading, rather than the bile you spouted. OK?

[Mrs Bradey]

We are dying for immigrants. In case you haven't noticed we desperately need immigration and need it now. oh yes !! we definitely need more immigrants, what with all the empty council houses and billions of pounds going spare in the social security budget!!!! what we really need is to train more apprentices to fill any skills deficit, and pay them fairly whilst they are being trained!!!!!

[golach]

Wooooow......Propaganda is it?? I just love it. Folkies come on here and demand answers, and if they don't fit in with their ideas, it's lies and propaganda. It's actually foresight you're looking for, and I'm afraid most of us just don't do foresight too well.....sorry.
You vote how you want, no skin off my nose. A question was asked and I attempted to suggest further reading, rather than the bile you spouted. OK?
Looks as if the pot is calling the kettle black here. If anyone has the temerity to disagree with your thinking, we are printing bile, I think the boot is on the other foot with you

[weezer 316]

oh yes !! we definitely need more immigrants, what with all the empty council houses and billions of pounds going spare in the social security budget!!!! what we really need is to train more apprentices to fill any skills deficit, and pay them fairly whilst they are being trained!!!!!

Facepalm.

I'll let you go and check out if what I said was true. Ill gove you a clue. Start with Scotlands falling population.

[Mrs Bradey]

Facepalm.I'll let you go and check out if what I said was true. Ill gove you a clue. Start with Scotlands falling population. ok! so I bit!!! I checked out the 2011 census results (I think you should also) in 2011 Scotland recorded its highest population ever! with all a rise of 5% from 2001 census up by 233,000 to 5,295,000 !!! so I'll let you go check this out . start here:- nrscotland.gov.uk/.../2013/Scotland... so it would appear what you said isn't true .......

[Mrs Bradey]

........ and an increase if 18,000+ between 2011 & 2012

facepalm.........indeed!

[weezer 316]

Apologies, I working on my phone. Very inconvenient when I miss out the word working!

Out working age population is too small and getting smaller. We simply havent enough of a working age to sustain our current system even medium term. Even the SNP will tell you this (they do pick and chose the stats they like)

http://www.workpermit.com/news/2013-06-03/scottish-government-minister-criticises-uk-immigration-policy

[Bobinovich]

Apologies, I working on my phone. Very inconvenient when I miss out the word working!

Out working age population is too small and getting smaller. We simply havent enough of a working age to sustain our current system even medium term. Even the SNP will tell you this (they do pick and chose the stats they like)

http://www.workpermit.com/news/2013-06-03/scottish-government-minister-criticises-uk-immigration-policy

Actually your link doesn't talk about the working age population decreasing, but the population of Scotland in general which, as Mrs Bradey has shown, is incorrect. It also appears your claim that the working age population is declining is also wrong - as shown here (http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/files2/stats/high-level-summary/j11198/j1119802.htm) the 30-44 age range has dropped by 9% (2001 to 2011) but 16 - 30, and 45 - 59 age groups have risen by 11% & 14% respectively.

[Shabbychic]

Looks as if the pot is calling the kettle black here. If anyone has the temerity to disagree with your thinking, we are printing bile, I think the boot is on the other foot with you

Pot here, wie ma boots oan the wrang feet.....There are many who have the temerity to disagree with my thinking, but I was referring to your post earlier on this thread, nobody elses. However, I will not argue, and bow to your experience.

[weezer 316]

OK so we are in agreement then no? A group between 16 and 29 has increased, but the groups ahead of it has declined, and teh group ahead of that is almost retired and grown bigger than the 3 behind it have?

Jesus.

IN short, we have more and more people reaching retirment, and proportianaly less people to pay for it and even less AGAIN in the medium to long term. Therefore....WE NEED IMMIGRATION!

[Mrs Bradey]

Apologies, I working on my phone. Very inconvenient when I miss out the word working!Out working age population is too small and getting smaller. We simply havent enough of a working age to sustain our current system even medium term. Even the SNP will tell you this (they do pick and chose the stats they like)http://www.workpermit.com/news/2013-06-03/scottish-government-minister-criticises-uk-immigration-policy checked out your link :- this is just reference to the views of Humza Yousaf and Alex Johnstone ,if you take into account the census results, that there was an increase of 6%in the number of children under 5year old. when these children become working age and start looking for work they will be very disappointed to find the immigrants have taken it all. its all about, balance, foresight and management. not scoring points at the expense of others...........I think.......?

[weezer 316]

No not really. Bobs link is actually better for my point.

Please dont warble on about immigrants taking jobs. Please.

[Mrs Bradey]

No not really. Bobs link is actually better for my point. Please dont warble on about immigrants taking jobs. Please. I'm sorry weezer but with unemployment in Scotland at its highest level for 5 years at over 200,000 ! I do not see how bringing in eu immigrants will benefit Scotland in the slightest !! the answer must be to train our own workforce to fill the skills deficit!!! it is predicted that the natural (homegrown) population will continue to rise......................so ............................warble ..........warble...............warble............. .....warble.............

[squidge]

Of the two million net migrants to the UK from the eight eastern european countries that joined the EU in 2004 just 13000 people have claimed jobseekers allowance. ( guardian March 2013). This is most likely to be people who have been here up to nine years worked here and paid national insurance and therefore are entitled to claim because they have paid in. Just like you and me.

UK Nationals are 2.5 times more likely to claim benefits than immigrants.

in 2007/8 it was found that the proportion of new social lets to foreign nationals was 6.5% (with 1.1% going to members of EU8 countries, 1.8% to EEA nationals, and the remaining 3.8% to non-EU residents).

Higher immigration means a larger working population which benefits the economy and reduces national debt. It is true to say that people moving here when young grow older and some suggest they become a burden which the Uk (and Scotland) could do without. But that ignores the fact that someone moving here in their 20s may work for 40 years, paying in and contributing to the economy.

The suggestion that health tourism by immigrants seeking to exploit our NHS has also been shown to be nonsense. anoher smoke screen policy by this government to give the illusion that they are doing something by doing nothing or doing something which makes almost no difference to anything. At 0.6% of the NHS budget this issue is a nothing issue - in fact it is said that the Government is to blame for almost 25% of this figure because they simply dont bother to claim back the costs where they could do so.

Training our young people and better apprenticeships and better help for those unemployed to return to work is vital but not at the expense of immigration. The two are complimentary not exclusive. To suggest that immigrants are "taking our jobs" is as untrue now as it was in the 50s, 60s and before. IT was said about West Indians, pakistanis and bangladeshis; The same comments were made about poles, jews, ukranians after WW2 im surprised no one has added "they are taking our women too" IT makes about as much sense.

http://fullfact.org/factchecks/immigration_and_benefits-28846

[ducati]

Of the two million net migrants to the UK from the eight eastern european countries that joined the EU in 2004 just 13000 people have claimed jobseekers allowance. ( guardian March 2013). This is most likely to be people who have been here up to nine years worked here and paid national insurance and therefore are entitled to claim because they have paid in. Just like you and me.

UK Nationals are 2.5 times more likely to claim benefits than immigrants.

in 2007/8 it was found that the proportion of new social lets to foreign nationals was 6.5% (with 1.1% going to members of EU8 countries, 1.8% to EEA nationals, and the remaining 3.8% to non-EU residents).

Higher immigration means a larger working population which benefits the economy and reduces national debt. It is true to say that people moving here when young grow older and some suggest they become a burden which the Uk (and Scotland) could do without. But that ignores the fact that someone moving here in their 20s may work for 40 years, paying in and contributing to the economy.

The suggestion that health tourism by immigrants seeking to exploit our NHS has also been shown to be nonsense. anoher smoke screen policy by this government to give the illusion that they are doing something by doing nothing or doing something which makes almost no difference to anything. At 0.6% of the NHS budget this issue is a nothing issue - in fact it is said that the Government is to blame for almost 25% of this figure because they simply dont bother to claim back the costs where they could do so.

Training our young people and better apprenticeships and better help for those unemployed to return to work is vital but not at the expense of immigration. The two are complimentary not exclusive. To suggest that immigrants are "taking our jobs" is as untrue now as it was in the 50s, 60s and before. IT was said about West Indians, pakistanis and bangladeshis; The same comments were made about poles, jews, ukranians after WW2 im surprised no one has added "they are taking our women too" IT makes about as much sense.

http://fullfact.org/factchecks/immigration_and_benefits-28846

They can have our women. [lol]

[Mrs Bradey]

Just curious how people feel should Scotland become independent and stay within the EU. I'm not an expert on this but it would appear that the social benefits of living I'm Scotland will out strip those available to the United Kimgdom, .i.e ,free prescriptions, free education etc Given that the United Kingdom is currently feeling the effects of immigration from within the EU would Scotland then become the new place to go for a life and how would it affect the social dynamics of such a small country and the countries budget. well we've had our go, now RagnarRocks old boy, perhaps you can enlighten the debate with your opinion.

[Mrs Bradey]

with regard to immigrants taking us women folk, at present there are 2,577,140 men and 2,736,460 women in Scotland. so you guys should not feel too threatened! but then some of those eastern Europeans are quite hunky, don't cha think

[shazzap]

[QUOTE= but then some of those eastern Europeans are quite hunky, don't cha think[/QUOTE]

NO. But what ever floats your boat. :)

[RagnarRocks]

well we've had our go, now RagnarRocks old boy, perhaps you can enlighten the debate with your opinion.
Well not that old to be fair.
My views on immigration are varied, if we are attracting hard working honest people then its not a problem, but if we find that large numbers of people are arriving and not adding only taking then its a problem.
I have always held the opinion that free trade between nations is to be encouraged and migration of workers around the EU is in itself a good thing, but if one nation then finds itself bearing the costs of a disproportionate amount of social benefits due to migrants moving purely to gain better circumstances without any intention of benefiting the host nation then some redress must be considered.

[Mrs Bradey]

Well not that old to be fair.My views on immigration are varied, if we are attracting hard working honest people then its not a problem, but if we find that large numbers of people are arriving and not adding only taking then its a problem.I have always held the opinion that free trade between nations is to be encouraged and migration of workers around the EU is in itself a good thing, but if one nation then finds itself bearing the costs of a disproportionate amount of social benefits due to migrants moving purely to gain better circumstances without any intention of benefiting the host nation then some redress must be considered.I very much agree with you, but is worrying when you see on tv programs the many gangs of pick pockets, shoplifters, sexual predators etc. many of them made up of immigrants (migrant workers) . even taking into account the scare mongery tactics of the media this is still a big concern, and should be to all, proper screening of immigrants must take place. and I stand by what I said about there not being enough jobs to go round. there you go, not so old boy.