Can you believe it?

[fishfanatic]

Just thought I would put this up for you all to read as I can not believe it happened. DVLA loop hole.

I have not mentioned names as I may be taking this matter further with our solicitor. What do you think? Have you been in the same situation?

This is the basic scenario (The full story link is at the bottom, it’s a long story but it is unbelievable.)

1. You go to see a car from a private seller.
2. You do basic HPI checks on the car
3. You agree to the sale and hand over payment (money or goods to the value)
4. V5 Documents are signed in accordance with DVLA rules
5. You and seller both agree to sign a reciept of the deal. With name, address, date, time, details of the car or deal and both parties signatures, just incase the new owner gets done speeding or in trouble with the police before the V5 is in the new owners name.
6. You take the car home that day and over the following week you spend a lot of time and money getting the car back up to standard.
7. You meet the guy a week later to get an extra item for the car. (standard springs). He is still happy with the deal.
8. A week and a few days after the sale, the guy has to get his car back because his mother tells him to.
9. The guy comes back to your partners house (not an address that was ever given to him, he had obviously been asking around about you). He threatens you when you run out to see what is happening in the driveway. He takes the car from you with a spare set of keys he said he never had and just drives away
10. In his slight favour he leaves you the money(less than what you paid) or damaged/used consumable goods back that you paid with.
11. He also goes off with your toolbox, CDs and various car items.
12. You phone the police on him for theft.
13. He is detained in Dornock police station, questioned and let go without charge
14. Police can do nothing as he has not sent the V5 documents to DVLA. The guy also tells police that it was a weeks trial agreement…. Is that not laughable.
15. DVLA can do nothing as he has not sent the V5 document to DVLA
16. Signed confirmation of the deal means nothing to the police.
17. Police that interviewed you knew the guys you were complaining about. Calls you later to tell you that the guys that threatened you are very nice guys really… the cheek - he then confirms that it’s a civil matter - although you were threatened by thugs and your stuff was stolen along with the car you had in your possession for over a week.
18. No compensation is offered by the guy for all the work you have done improving his car and increasing its value.


Crazy or what? This happened to my partner James and I the other night. It will probably cost a fortune to take this guy to court to get some compensation.


This is a giant loop hole in the DVLA process in favour of the original owner of the car. The car is not legally yours in the eyes of the police and DVLA even with the green slip from the V5--so the original owner can do what they want with the car after the sale until they send the V5 away.

The original owner can just say he/she had lost the V5 (the one with the signatures on)buy a new copy of the V5 and go get his car back. Where is the proof you paid money for the car? A receipt is not worth the paper its written on in the eyes of the police.

The funny thing is the guy thinks he has done nothing wrong to us and has been sending horrible text messages after i asked him to stay away from my home and caithness in general. I don't want them coming back and threatening us again.

Full story
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/2/10/757133/DVLA%20loophole.doc

[j4bberw0ck]

Sounds extraordinary to me.

The DVLA records the Registered Keeper, which is not necessarily the owner and so registration at DVLA is not proof of ownership. The receipt is evidence of a contract of sale but the Police are right - enforcement of that is a civil matter. If though the guy came and removed the car - with or without leaving you some or all of the money you paid - that's theft and is definitely a Police matter.

I suspect they see it as his word against yours and so won't "waste" time on it. I'd complain to the Chief Constable in writing as a starter. Starting a civil process would be expensive; you need the Police to live up to their responsibilities or explain why they can't do anything.

[garycs]

That is theft, pure and simple. The signed receipt makes the car yours no matter what happens with the V5 so it is very much a police matter.

Just a thought, if you had been caught speeding by a camera in the few days you had the car who would they chase up?

[fishfanatic]

Hi Gary

On the speeding fine - The police would send a letter to the registered DVLA owner for the speeding fine. It is up to the owner to say that it was someone else that was driving at that time and date. They need to provide the police with the other persons name and address. Without proof of sale the new owner can say they had not bought the car by then.

The full story is more complicated. But we do have a reciept detailing the swap of car with names, address, date, time, details of the swap and both our signatures. To me, legally this is a reciept for the purchase of his car.

I have sent emails to various solicitors to find out how to take this further. Its a matter of principle as i don't think he should get away with this. I would imagine it would be more than £500 he would owe us.

[fishfanatic]

Roy

Do you have any idea how to progress with small claims. Am i doing the right thing by contacting solicitors. None have come back to me but i'll chase up on Monday
I have no idea what a summary cause warrant is.

[Torvaig]

I advise you to contact the Citizens Advice Bureau in the first place to get free information.

http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/

[ywindythesecond]

I advise you to contact the Citizens Advice Bureau in the first place to get free information.

http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/


Good advice. CAB helped me once in a difficult situation.

[XR2]

That is terrible, and so wrong that the fact you have both signed the V5 for changing the details over and it means absolutely nothing. Very scary.

Hope you get things sorted and it all works out ok for you.

[newpark]

If I buy a car I always ask the seller to signt he V5 Doc while i'm there and then tell them that I will post it on way home that way you never get a problem like this.
Hope you get it sorted I know what its like to be stuck without a car.

[pentlander]

Go smash up the car in the middle of the night.

[fishfanatic]

Thanks 'XR2' x

That was very tempting 'Pentlander. But i'm not like that. Although saying that, i'm sure he would be in big trouble if he came back up to the Caithness area again or near my house to threaten me again. There are so many Caithness people that don't agree with what he has done.

Problem is he was Caithness born. He was born in Thurso and grew up in Bettyhill and now lives in Dornock. I'm sure he has family and friends in Thurso, so I apologise to them if i eventually name and shame the guy.

It is the responsibility of the seller to send away the V5 according to DVLA but from now on i'll be insisting that i do it like you said 'newpark''. I just wanted to let everyone know that the original owner can come get the car without any consequences in the eyes of the police and DVLA.

I phoned the DVLA when he stole the car back. The advice they gave me was something like this:

The original owner can phone DVLA before the V5 is produced and sent to the new owner(within 4 weeks) and have the change of keeper cancelled. I was told if the signed V5 document had been sent in the post, all i needed to say to them was that the sale did not go through.

The good thing is we have two different solicitors wanting to take the case on. I really hope we can make this guy pay for what he has done to us.

[johno]

Just thought I would put this up for you all to read as I can not believe it happened. DVLA loop hole.

I have not mentioned names as I may be taking this matter further with our solicitor. What do you think? Have you been in the same situation?

This is the basic scenario (The full story link is at the bottom, it’s a long story but it is unbelievable.)

1. You go to see a car from a private seller.
2. You do basic HPI checks on the car
3. You agree to the sale and hand over payment (money or goods to the value)
4. V5 Documents are signed in accordance with DVLA rules
5. You and seller both agree to sign a reciept of the deal. With name, address, date, time, details of the car or deal and both parties signatures, just incase the new owner gets done speeding or in trouble with the police before the V5 is in the new owners name.
6. You take the car home that day and over the following week you spend a lot of time and money getting the car back up to standard.
7. You meet the guy a week later to get an extra item for the car. (standard springs). He is still happy with the deal.
8. A week and a few days after the sale, the guy has to get his car back because his mother tells him to.
9. The guy comes back to your partners house (not an address that was ever given to him, he had obviously been asking around about you). He threatens you when you run out to see what is happening in the driveway. He takes the car from you with a spare set of keys he said he never had and just drives away
10. In his slight favour he leaves you the money(less than what you paid) or damaged/used consumable goods back that you paid with.
11. He also goes off with your toolbox, CDs and various car items.
12. You phone the police on him for theft.
13. He is detained in Dornock police station, questioned and let go without charge
14. Police can do nothing as he has not sent the V5 documents to DVLA. The guy also tells police that it was a weeks trial agreement…. Is that not laughable.
15. DVLA can do nothing as he has not sent the V5 document to DVLA
16. Signed confirmation of the deal means nothing to the police.
17. Police that interviewed you knew the guys you were complaining about. Calls you later to tell you that the guys that threatened you are very nice guys really… the cheek - he then confirms that it’s a civil matter - although you were threatened by thugs and your stuff was stolen along with the car you had in your possession for over a week.
18. No compensation is offered by the guy for all the work you have done improving his car and increasing its value.


Crazy or what? This happened to my partner James and I the other night. It will probably cost a fortune to take this guy to court to get some compensation.


This is a giant loop hole in the DVLA process in favour of the original owner of the car. The car is not legally yours in the eyes of the police and DVLA even with the green slip from the V5--so the original owner can do what they want with the car after the sale until they send the V5 away.

The original owner can just say he/she had lost the V5 (the one with the signatures on)buy a new copy of the V5 and go get his car back. Where is the proof you paid money for the car? A receipt is not worth the paper its written on in the eyes of the police.

The funny thing is the guy thinks he has done nothing wrong to us and has been sending horrible text messages after i asked him to stay away from my home and caithness in general. I don't want them coming back and threatening us again.

Full story
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/2/10/757133/DVLA%20loophole.doc i heard about this through the grapeline & i reckon you and your hubby have been hard done by. from what i heard these guys are to say the least very distasteful people . hope you nail em good and hard[ legally] [disgust]