View Full Version : Madeleine McCann
Kevin Milkins
14-Oct-13, 23:59
I know it's an emotive subject and it's been done to death on many forums since the unfortunate disappearance of the poor child, but although I sort of made my own mind up of what may have happened to her, tonight's crime watch UK has made me think again. Without wanting to seem insensitive about this horrible set of circumstances, what do fellow orgers think about it now?
I know it's an emotive subject and it's been done to death on many forums since the unfortunate disappearance of the poor child, but although I sort of made my own mind up of what may have happened to her, tonight's crime watch UK has made me think again. Without wanting to seem insensitive about this horrible set of circumstances, what do fellow orgers think about it now?
You can't accuse anyone 'cos you'll get sued.
RagnarRocks
15-Oct-13, 07:51
I think that the major lesson to be taken from the whole incident is don't leave your children unattended. Criminals will always exist all we can do is mitigate their ability to operate. I have no problems with paedophiles having their rights restricted so they have no ability to interact with children to ensure society is safer .
If I had been a perfect parent, then I may have ventured an opinion, but I was not
One can only hope that the current investigation can achieve closure on the tragic case and that all responsible for it are brought to justice.It's a real pity that the Portuguese team followed the wrong line(s) of inquiry.
I hope above all that they find the wee lassie and like golach had I never made a mistake in my parenting then I would feel justified in commenting but I have and I got away with it Thank God. i went to bed and hugged my four year old girl so close last night and cried a wee bit too. I cant imangine the anguish those parents have felt and I never want to either .
rich62_uk
15-Oct-13, 11:36
Yes we have all made mistakes, but that was neglect. If it were someone other than two middle class GPs then they would of faced charges. Because of their neglect a poor young child has had who knows what done to her and could possibly still be alive or maybe dead.
outsidethebox
15-Oct-13, 12:16
If they could just summon up the courage to actually admit that they did wrong in leaving the poor wee mites alone in the apartment I might feel more forving toward the McCann's. Listening to them last night speaking about how the Madeleine had said to them "where were you when me and the twins cried last night" certainly did not improve their standing in my eyes. And then when Gerry was only able to say that he was looking forward, not backwards and Kate almost managed to accept a share of the blame but couldn't quite manage it, well again, it really did not make me warm to them at all.
If they would accept leaving kids alone is wrong it may help spread that message to others that still think it's ok.
As to Madeleine, cannot help but think she will never be seen again...
I think they have to admit and face the error of their ways every waking moment.The show was about finding the abductor(s) not admissions of wrongdoing
I am sure there is not a day goes by that both parents totally regret leaving the kids alone ,they will pay for that mistake for the rest off their lives, but who are we to judge these people its not like we never send our kids out to the shop or are able to watch them 24/7 in the hope that the some skum will no approach them. I try not to judge them as this is a waste of my time I would rather learn from their mistakes and give hope that one day they will find her. The people (skum) that did wrong were the people (skum) that took her. I pray that they find her but its a cruel world out there and don't give out much hope sadly
Interesting comments from some, all I will say is what a Particular man was supposed to have said over 2000 years ago.
Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone.
I for one will not be picking up a stone.
radiohead
15-Oct-13, 18:19
Personally I think two GPs leaving three children alone, are grossly irresponsible. The fact the children had been sedated at times during the holiday makes me wonder what really happened. Also I would think two babies who are easier to imprint on "new" parents would have been less risky to take if that was the intention. Just my opinion, so please don't question my morals, parenting etc in reply.
Personally I think two GPs leaving three children alone, are grossly irresponsible. The fact the children had been sedated at times during the holiday makes me wonder what really happened. Also I would think two babies who are easier to imprint on "new" parents would have been less risky to take if that was the intention. Just my opinion, so please don't question my morals, parenting etc in reply.
Why should no one question your Morals? Especially when you are doing exactly that to two people who you know will never see your comments and as such can not defend themselves.
Personally I think two GPs leaving three children alone, are grossly irresponsible. The fact the children had been sedated at times during the holiday makes me wonder what really happened. Also I would think two babies who are easier to imprint on "new" parents would have been less risky to take if that was the intention. Just my opinion, so please don't question my morals, parenting etc in reply.What is your theory?
radiohead
15-Oct-13, 19:04
My theory is they accidentally overdosed her and dumped her body to save their skins from manslaughter charges. After all if you are irresponsible enough to leave three children alone anything is possible. Kodiak, I added that as usually some tit will have a nasty swipe at comments made in forums.
My theory is they accidentally overdosed her and dumped her body to save their skins from manslaughter charges. After all if you are irresponsible enough to leave three children alone anything is possible. Kodiak, I added that as usually some tit will have a nasty swipe at comments made in forums.
I know exatly what you mean and this comment of yours deserves lots of nasty swipes, but I am too much of a Gentleman to write such comments.
I cant imangine the anguish those parents have felt and I never want to either .
You do not need to imagine. That mothers suffering is utterly visible and still so raw. It has eaten her. Not a day goes by that she does not castigate herself for leaving those children alone, more severely than any criticism the public may direct at them. If nothing else, what happened with Madelaine has made parents who would do ( or even did) the same to think twice.
Well, one cannot be negative otherwise the Polis will come a knocking at the McCann's behest. Whilst it is interesting to see how their utter neglect can be swept under the carpet whilst they make a fortune off the back of the poor girl.
My theory is they accidentally overdosed her and dumped her body to save their skins from manslaughter charges. After all if you are irresponsible enough to leave three children alone anything is possible. Kodiak, I added that as usually some tit will have a nasty swipe at comments made in forums. based on what evidence? By that theory the entire party must have been in on it, they were in a strange country yet managed to dispose of a body so professionally that it has never been discovered. Then they embark on a relentless campaign for an international investigation for six years just to create a smokescreen. Sounds like some movie plot, I don't buy it.
based on what evidence?
Based on the unethical book of Goncalo Ammaral, "me thinks".
radiohead
15-Oct-13, 23:52
This has been my opinion since it emerged about the doping of their children, not that of Goncalo Ammaral, who until you posted his name was a man I was unaware of. Amazing how they get the press coverage again, when someone expresses doubts on their story. And if I remember rightly Mrs McCann was photographed perfectly dressed and made up within days of the disapperance which, having lost a child myself, was not a priority for months after the funeral. If they were the usual "Brits abroad", leaving their children sedated and alone would have landed them in court for neglect.
What makes you think the mcanns sedated their kids? As far as I know there has been nothing to prove that accusation.
https://www.facebook.com/ltough2/posts/10202251920045450I know its facebook but that says it all for me...
https://www.facebook.com/ltough2/posts/10202251920045450I know its facebook but that says it all for me...It says nothing to me!
Neil Howie
17-Oct-13, 23:11
The Facebook site is down as far as I can tell but I will reply quote from the Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1566664/Proof-McCanns-did-not-sedate-Madeleine.html) "just another smear":
It has been repeatedly alleged in Portugal that the couple, who are formal suspects or arguidos in the case, gave the four-year-old an accidental overdose of drugs and then panicked and hid her body.
The couple, both 39, has always dismissed these claims as “utterly ludicrous” and insisted they never gave any of their three children - including two-year-old twins Sean and Amelie - any such medication.
Their spokesman Clarence Mitchell said: “Kate and Gerry have never used sedatives on their children and any suggestion to the contrary is both offensive and defamatory.
“The lawyers working on their behalf are constantly assessing all the aspects of the case and will take action as they deem appropriate.”
It is understood the couple’s legal team hired forensic specialists to examine hair samples from the twins, who were in the same room as Madeleine in the Ocean Club apartment in Praia da Luz when she disappeared an May 3, and no trace of sedative was found.
A source close to the legal team said: “It would be logical for tests to be carried out on the twins to show that they have never been given sedatives.
“It would be right to say those tests show no evidence of sedatives in their systems. It backs up Kate and Gerry’s claims that they have never sedated the children and explains why they are so certain they can prove that the allegation is just another smear.”
RagnarRocks
18-Oct-13, 07:59
Yes tests on the hair where taken some months after the incident and the Mccanns protesting their innocence means absolutely nothing most guilty people protest there innocence.What will never ever change is the fact they left three very young children alone for hours on end without even entering the room to check the kids where ok. They also left their remaining children with strangers so they could whizz off to see the Pope, incredibly narcissistic behaviour and now we have a new e fit picture of a man who looks similar to Mr McCann.
cptdodger
18-Oct-13, 11:42
I honestly believe it depends where you brought your own children up as to whether you find leaving three young children on their own acceptable or not. My children grew up in Chatham in Kent, put it this way, if Kent is the garden of England - I lived in the compost heap. There is no way in this world, I would have left my kids unattended for five minutes, let alone for hours, locked in a room while I went out for a meal. My kids were never sent to the shops on their own, they were only allowed out to play if an adult was present, they very rarely got to play in play parks mainly because of discarded needles and druggies congregating. Living in Caithness is a world away from living where I did, but I was still surprised to see children out playing when it was getting dark without a parent in sight. Please do'nt think I am knocking anybodies parental skills, I'm not - it's just something I could not allow my own kids to do. So, yes I was horrified that the Mccanns left three young children in a room on their own for that amount of time. There have been so many cases where people have done that in Britain, been found out and had social services on their backs (rightly) for evermore. I cannot understand for the life of me why it was acceptable for the Mccanns to do just that.
radiohead
18-Oct-13, 11:46
I think that if they wanted a holiday where they could eat and drink with their friends they should have left the kids at home. In any view leaving children on their own is not acceptable, responsible behaviour.
cptdodger
18-Oct-13, 11:49
I think that if they wanted a holiday where they could eat and drink with their friends they should have left the kids at home. In any view leaving children on their own is not acceptable, responsible behaviour.
I have to agree with you, and having read your last post radiohead, I am so sorry for your loss.
sassylass
18-Oct-13, 17:01
You do not need to imagine. That mothers suffering is utterly visible and still so raw. It has eaten her. Not a day goes by that she does not castigate herself for leaving those children alone, more severely than any criticism the public may direct at them. If nothing else, what happened with Madelaine has made parents who would do ( or even did) the same to think twice.
True, their faces show they fully understand and regret their error in judgement. They have paid the price thousandfold. Now the focus needs to be on finding Madeleine, poor child.
Neil Howie
19-Oct-13, 00:25
From pB - Madeleine McCann exposing the myths (http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbworks.com/w/page/39076140/Main%20Page):
The McCann case is unprecedented in the levels of misinformation which have been published about it. Drs Kate & Gerry McCann have successfully taken legal action against several newspapers which published false stories which were deemed harmful to the search for their daughter.
Much of this misinformation continues to circulate the Internet today.
Assertion: What will never ever change is the fact they left three very young children alone for hours on end without even entering the room to check the kids where ok.
Answer:That is incorrect. G McCann checks on children at 9.05. M Oldfield and R Obrien check at 9.30 but do not enter apartment. K McCann checks at 10.00pm and discovers Madeleine is missing, raises alarm.
Assertion: They also left their remaining children with strangers so they could whizz off to see the Pope, incredibly narcissistic behaviour
Answer: Leaving small children with close family members, not strangers, while raising awareness for Madeleine amd asking for the Pope's prayers hardly seems narcissistic for people who are devout Catholics.
Day 25 - 28th May 2007 Confirmation arrived this evening that we are to attend the Vatican and a service with The Pope. It is likely we will be seated in the front row and may have an opportunity to speak with the Holy Father and ask for prayers for Madeleine. This is a hugely important visit both personally, for Kate and I, but also for the wider campaign to publicise Madeleine’s disappearance...
...This will NOT be a Tour- it is a series of very brief visits with the specific aim of raising awareness and we aim to get back here as quickly as possible....
Day 25 - 28th May 2007 ...We have decided that for the majority of trips it will not be practicable, or fair, to take S*** and A***** with us. They have an established routine which we do not want to disrupt and will be looked after by very close family.
Day 26 - 29th May 2007
It has been very difficult to leave S*** and A***** but it is only for one nght and we will be back to see them before bedtime tomorrow.
Assertion : and now we have a new e fit picture of a man who looks similar to Mr McCann.
Answer: that's just the kind of policing we need in this country, case closed!
RagnarRocks
19-Oct-13, 08:01
I love liberal apologists
But why let the truth get in the way of a good story eh?
RagnarRocks
19-Oct-13, 09:03
I prefer to wait until the police have finished their investigation until she is found in my view all options remain open why not put the parents under forensic investigation if nothing else it would close the chapter.
Do you not think that perhaps the police have investigated the possibility of the parents being behind it?I do feel that they should have to answer child neglect charges for leaving those kids unattended, but I am not sure what the Portuguese law says on that matter.
That is incorrect. G McCann checks on children at 9.05. M Oldfield and R Obrien check at 9.30 but do not enter apartment. K McCann checks at 10.00pm and discovers Madeleine is missing, raises alarm.
Regardless of how you want to dress this up, two educated, intelligent professionals. GP's at that, who should know better than most about child welfare. Decided to leave their very young children and go on the lash instead.
Irresponsible at best, neglect at worst.
They have since managed a very calculated media campaign whilst cashing in on the girls disappearance.
I'm running with obfuscation myself.
Regardless of how you want to dress this up, two educated, intelligent professionals. GP's at that, who should know better than most about child welfare. Decided to leave their very young children and go on the lash instead.Irresponsible at best, neglect at worst.They have since managed a very calculated media campaign whilst cashing in on the girls disappearance.I'm running with obfuscation myself.Go on then quantify how they "cashed in" on her disappearance?How have they confused matters?
RagnarRocks
19-Oct-13, 13:07
Some might consider operating the Madeline fund as a ltd co rather than a charity suspect in the cashing in area
And some may not
Does anyone know how many british children have disapeared since this little girl? It would be great if all the cases were treated with the same vigor and publicity.
A lot of credit has to go to mr and mrs mcann for keeping this case in our minds
Neil Howie
19-Oct-13, 22:24
Does anyone know how many british children have disapeared since this little girl? It would be great if all the cases were treated with the same vigor and publicity.
It's a good question.
I haven't seen any figures.
That is, those who stay missing : those missing minus those found.
Plus some of the missing are likely to be abducted by a parent in a custody dispute.
There is a charity website Missing Kids (http://www.missingkids.co.uk/) but that doesn't record all missing children.
Article on the Indy (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/the-missing-each-year-275000-britons-disappear-1801010.html)in 2009 looked at missing people in the UK.
Southern-Gal
20-Oct-13, 15:41
I wonder if the little girl found with the roma couple has been discovered as a result of enquiries leading from the Madelaine McCann investigation?
Neil Howie
20-Oct-13, 21:57
As far as I know she was just discovered by chance by a sharp eyed policeman who noticed her hair sticking out from some bedclothes.
The reason given (at least in the press) for the raid is per bbc report (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24589614):
Police raided the Roma camp, near Farsala in central Greece, to search for drugs and weapons. The little girl was allegedly being used to beg on the streets
.
They noticed the lack of resemblance between the blonde-haired, green-eyed, pale-skinned little girl and her parents, and found further discrepancies when they investigated the family's documents.
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