View Full Version : hunting in the early hours of the moring
blackhawkonfie
18-Sep-13, 11:05
On Monday night I couldn't get to sleep so I was awake around 2:00am to 3:30 am Tuesday morning, about 2:45am there was a discharge of a 22 rifle quite near to my house so like you do I had a nosy around and noticed a vehicle moving down the lane with no lights on, I'm just wondering if anybody else in Caithness have had similar encounters with individuals hunting in the early hours of the morning? If I have an encounter of this sort near my property again I will contact the police, I remember there was an incident near Shebster several months ago, persons were convicted!
Why wait to see if there will be another time. It is never too late so report the incident to the Police Now.
There are often vehicles on the go at night and i wonder what they are up to! I have just posted on the farming forum as we have 15 lambs that have gone missing from a field beside the road. I strongly suggest if you hear or see anything like that report it to the police as it may not be wildlife they are taking.
There are often vehicles on the go at night and i wonder what they are up to! I have just posted on the farming forum as we have 15 lambs that have gone missing from a field beside the road. I strongly suggest if you hear or see anything like that report it to the police as it may not be wildlife they are taking.
Awwww Foxy not good, all that work you have put in, raising them, sorry I cannot help
Hey, you should have reported it straight away. Even though the guys were away, this info may proove useful in establishing patterns etc that may help.
Which general area were you in?
Tilly Teckel
18-Sep-13, 13:09
My two-pence-worth... please don't jump to the conclusion that people out hunting at night are 'up to no good'. They may well have permission from the landowner, have the relevant licences, and be providing a valuable service to the farmer(s). Some aren't admittedly, but most are. Thanks!
My two-pence-worth... please don't jump to the conclusion that people out hunting at night are 'up to no good'. They may well have permission from the landowner, have the relevant licences, and be providing a valuable service to the farmer(s). Some aren't admittedly, but most are. Thanks!
Well they were commiting a motoring offence driving with no lights. Org justice demands that they be summarily executed.
Well they were commiting a motoring offence driving with no lights. Org justice demands that they be summarily executed.
Only if on the public road
orkneycadian
18-Sep-13, 15:26
I am sure the police will only be interested if this happened on your property, without your permission, or if stray fire was entering your property, or if there was imminent threat of harm to any 3rd parties. Hunting at night is not an offence, and a normal country activity, essential to keep many types of vermin in check.
Lavenderblue2
18-Sep-13, 15:34
I have often heard shots here and seen the continual flash of 'lamping' during the night. When we came to live in this house 36 years ago there were Hares and quite a lot of Roe deer etc. I haven't seen a Hare in years...I daresay they have been hunted to extinction in this area. It is such a shame...we even had names for one pair of Hares...Harold and Harriet...not anymore though.:(
orkneycadian
18-Sep-13, 17:38
If you own all the land around you, on which these hares are "being hunted to extinction" on, then you can take action, and report any unauthorised shooting on your land. Anyone shooting on your land without your permission, will be seriously up for the high jump. If however, the land is owned by others, and they have given permission for shooting on it, then that is their prerogative, especially if it is farmed land and vermin is causing damage.
In Scotland, hares are subject to an open shooting season, meaning that those who determine what species can be taken (SNH I think), feel that there are sufficient numbers of them to require controlling.
Roe deer also has an open season, so again acknowledged as requiring controlling. I am sure if there was the slightest concern over dwindling numbers, then SNH would have the open season pulled in a trice, and they would become a protected species.
If someone is lamping for Roe Deer, then that would get them in trouble, as night game shooting (1 hour after sunset to 1 hour before sunrise) is not allowed. Lamping for rabbits and hares is however permitted.
The following link may be helpful if there is any doubt as to what is legal and what is not;
http://www.basc.org.uk/en/departments/game-and-gamekeeping/game-shooting/shooting-seasons.cfm
just wondering how you knew it was a .22 round that they fired when you only heard a bang, and the main reason for the drop in hare numbers is the speed of modern farm machinery and changes to farm practices
blackhawkonfie
18-Sep-13, 23:12
just wondering how you knew it was a .22 round that they fired when you only heard a bang, and the main reason for the drop in hare numbers is the speed of modern farm machinery and changes to farm practices I know the difference between a shot gun, high calibre hunting rifle, .22 rifle and various other firearms discharge sounds "Super Mac from Canisbay"
secrets in symmetry
18-Sep-13, 23:31
On Monday night I couldn't get to sleep so I was awake around 2:00am to 3:30 am Tuesday morning, about 2:45am there was a discharge of a 22 rifle quite near to my house so like you do I had a nosy around and noticed a vehicle moving down the lane with no lights on, I'm just wondering if anybody else in Caithness have had similar encounters with individuals hunting in the early hours of the morning? If I have an encounter of this sort near my property again I will contact the police, I remember there was an incident near Shebster several months ago, persons were convicted!What would you guess they were shooting at?
[QUOTE=secrets in symmetry;1047805]What would you guess they were shooting at?[/QUO
Eejits who can only survive as a subservient group within the (dis)United Kingdom :Razz
Only an idiot would discharge a firearm in the dark. How do they know whats in the background...(and near dwellings ) i would report it immediately.
orkneycadian
19-Sep-13, 16:24
Are they still idiots if they were using a night vision scope?
Do you really think folk would go out and shoot in the dark when they cant see what they are aiming at?Aside from anything else, it would be an awful waste of ammo.
changilass
19-Sep-13, 16:38
I would report it to police.
If they are legit and using night sight and have permission then no harm done.
If however, they are up to no good then hopefully the police can do something about it.
Are they still idiots if they were using a night vision scope?
Do you really think folk would go out and shoot in the dark when they cant see what they are aiming at?Aside from anything else, it would be an awful waste of ammo.
Depends on the firearm. a 12 bore , short range. .22 a different story, and he could miss. a sporting rifle now that a different kettle of fish. even if he kills the game the bullit could still go right though and travel some distance. I used to do a lot of shooting untill i got sickened of it ,and i would never ever shoot in the dark night sight or no night sight AND NEVER WHERE THE AREA IS POPULATED .
orkneycadian
19-Sep-13, 19:13
I would report it to police.
If they are legit and using night sight and have permission then no harm done.
If however, they are up to no good then hopefully the police can do something about it.
Would you apply this to instances where you have to interact with your fellow human beings, and assume "no harm done" if;
You report to the police, every car that you see driven on the public road as possibly being driven by a drunk driver. The police can always stop them and breathalyse them, and when they pass - "No harm done"
You call the police everytime you see someone enter a bank and report them as a potential robber. The police can always bundle them to the floor and strip search them looking for weapons. If none are found, then "no harm done"
You report any males you see wearing long coats to the police as potential "flashers". The police can always arrest them and check out what they have under their coats. If they are fully clothed, then "no harm done"
I could go on with silly examples, which seem to be getting sillier as I add to them....
orkneycadian
19-Sep-13, 19:38
Depends on the firearm. a 12 bore , short range. .22 a different story, and he could miss. a sporting rifle now that a different kettle of fish. even if he kills the game the bullit could still go right though and travel some distance. I used to do a lot of shooting untill i got sickened of it ,and i would never ever shoot in the dark night sight or no night sight AND NEVER WHERE THE AREA IS POPULATED .
I assume if you gave it up because you were sick of it, then you're livelihood didn't depend on it, and you were just doing it for fun? Of are you one of the "incompassionate farmers" mentioned on another thread on here recently, who doesn't really care if vermin eat all the food meant for your livestock, causing them to go hungry instead?
There are a lot of misconceptions about shooting, especially when folk think that because they can hear gunshot, or heaven forbid, actually see someone with a gun, then their life is in danger, even if someones is 500 yards away and shooting in the other direction. To put it into perspective. A golf ball being driven off the tee has about 4 times the energy of a pellet fired from a legal (no firearm certificate required) airgun, and about half of that of a .22 rifle. Yet, folk go round batting golf balls in all directions, even near populated places, and even other golfers! And without Googling it, I am are sure there are deaths which have been attributed to being struck by a golf ball. So, would you be similarly concerned, if you saw someone driving golf balls, away from you, or in a direction that was not aimed towards you? Would you phone the police and get them to check it out?
I assume if you gave it up because you were sick of it, then you're livelihood didn't depend on it, and you were just doing it for fun? Of are you one of the "incompassionate farmers" mentioned on another thread on hear recently, who doesn't really care if vermin eat all the food meant for your livestock, causing them to go hungry instead?
There are a lot of misconceptions about shooting, especially when folk think that because they can hear gunshot, or heaven forbid, actually see someone with a gun, then their life is in danger, even if someones is 500 yards away and shooting in the other direction. To put it into perspective. A golf ball being driven off the tee has about 4 times the energy of a pellet fired from a legal (no firearm certificate required) airgun, and about half of that of a .22 rifle. Yet, folk go round batting golf balls in all directions, even near populated places, and even other golfers! And without Googling it, I am are sure there are deaths which have bee attributed to being struck by a golf ball. So, would you be similarly concerned, if you saw someone driving golf balls, away from you, or in a direction that was not aimed towards you? Would you phone the police and get them to check it out?
Guns in the hands of anyone I don't know and some I do make me nervous. You only have to google to find a number of even recent examples of people with licences going nuts and killing people. Anyone seen with a gun should be viewed with great trepidation and suspicion in my opinion.
orkneycadian
19-Sep-13, 19:50
I trust you take the same view of cars and other motor vehicles being driven by people you don't know, and some you do Ducati? Especially as they are responsible for many more deaths?
Should we start reporting seeing cars being driven near our houses by people we do not know or trust, to the police?
I trust you take the same view of cars and other motor vehicles being driven by people you don't know, and some you do Ducati? Especially as they are responsible for many more deaths?
Should we start reporting seeing cars being driven near our houses by people we do not know or trust, to the police?
No, just guns.
orkneycadian
19-Sep-13, 19:55
And the reason for the difference being?
And the reason for the difference being?
Er.. cars don't make me nervous. If you don't think there is a difference it just confirms my suspicion that shooters are (potential) psychos.
orkneycadian
19-Sep-13, 20:05
Hmmm, I wonder who the public should be more concerned about....
The farmer using a simple tool to control vermin?
Or the guy with the unfounded paranoia that folk are out to get him? ;)
billmoseley
20-Sep-13, 19:48
Er.. cars don't make me nervous. If you don't think there is a difference it just confirms my suspicion that shooters are (potential) psychos. i have a gun and i don't consider myself a psycho just someone who enjoys a bit of sport
i have a gun and i don't consider myself a psycho just someone who enjoys a bit of sport
I seriously doubt any psycho considers themself to be a psycho. You'd better ask you friends to make sure. [lol]
AND NEVER WHERE THE AREA IS POPULATED .
Says Jacko who wants to shoot all the scorries on his own roof in a populated area [lol]
Says Jacko who wants to shoot all the scorries on his own roof in a populated area [lol]
i sure would like to , but i guess you cant kill em all . be easier to shoot the old crone that s feeding em .
(that was a joke)
b.t.w. orkneycadian. no, im not a farmer.
anyway seagull s are vermin, flying scavenging rats that serve no earthly purpose.
last thing i shot was a beautifull mallard and i thought jesus h christ i,d rather see it flying in the air.
ps. on the roof . it d be a pellet gun ,not a firearm ... BIG DIFFERENCE, as you well know.
yeah Jacko, wasn't meant to be a severe dig mate, just a wee laugh [lol]
blackhawkonfie
21-Sep-13, 00:36
Police Scotland Hare Coursing Clamp Down: http://www.scotland.police.uk/whats-happening/news/2013/september/187591/
No offence taken gaz:lol:
orkneycadian
21-Sep-13, 13:09
b.t.w. orkneycadian. no, im not a farmer.
Fair do's. Ref the example of golf balls above - Would you still be concerned if you saw someone driving a golf ball near a populated place? Over here, on or around the longest day, they play "midnight golf". I think its more an excuse to take a wander out on a bonny night with your mates and a golf bag containing 1 club, with the rest of the space taken up by refreshments. Anyway, when they are doing that, they are firing off missiles with 4 times the energy of an airgun pellet, in the near dark, near fellow golfers and beside houses, whilst under the influence of alcohol. Would that be of more or less concerning than someone doing some lamping for rabbits?
orkneycadian
21-Sep-13, 13:19
Police Scotland Hare Coursing Clamp Down: http://www.scotland.police.uk/whats-happening/news/2013/september/187591/
I would be somewhat surprised if the .22 wielding person you heard and saw the other night would have been doing any hare coursing.... :roll:
secrets in symmetry
21-Sep-13, 14:01
I would be somewhat surprised if the .22 wielding person you heard and saw the other night would have been doing any hare coursing.... :roll:Lol! Indeed. :cool:
Now secessionist coursing would be a fine sport, and you could at a pinch do it at night. :cool:
blackhawkonfie
22-Sep-13, 09:52
Hares are still around if you spend enough time in the countryside!
blackhawkonfie
22-Sep-13, 09:54
I notice the same old folk turning a decent debate, discussion sour!
orkneycadian
22-Sep-13, 10:36
As is often perceived to be the case on here, a debate doesn't turn sour just because others have a differing point of view. In many instances, threads are started off with folk hoping to get a wave of support for their view, concern, issue, whatever. Then they find that there are differing views out there that don't match their own. But, thats what debate is about. You don't see an invitation to a debating society meeting saying that Team 1 will will debate For the motion whilst Team 2 will also debate For the same motion.
As part of the ongoing debate, we have learned that BillMosely does a bit of shooting but doesn't consider himself a psycho. That helps counter some of the debate that puts forward the point that those that do do a bit of shooting are phsycos. We (I) have also put forward a comparison and asked for views on it, in relation to damage that could be done by a golf ball vs that of an airgun pellet.
Digressing happens in any conversation - Just listen to any conversation and it will meander from one thing to another, even if still loosely connected to the starting subject, whether that be football, politics or how attractive the barmaid is! Sometimes digression is relevant, other times its not. The police clamping down on hare coursing is a totally separate matter from someone being out shooting in the hours of darkness on their own land, or land they have permission to shoot on. The hare coursing is illegal, whilst the shooting is unlikely to be.
If you are hoping for everyone to sympathise with the concerns you obviously had last week, then it looks like, with many other subjects, you will get some sympathy, mixed in with some "counter sympathy", maybe even some criticism. But thats the nature of public debate I guess....
I notice the same old folk turning a decent debate, discussion sour!
You've been an active, contributing member of the forum for four days and you feel it's ok to start discussing the 'same old folk' turning your thread 'sour'?
Nice to have you here.
Its the countryside. Dont people expect to hear the odd gunshot?
billmoseley
23-Sep-13, 16:44
I seriously doubt any psycho considers themself to be a psycho. You'd better ask you friends to make sure. [lol]
What friend they all disappeared one night after a shot was over heard lolol:eek:
Better Out Than In
24-Sep-13, 15:06
Report it to the Police - you'll still never catch me!
newweecroft
24-Sep-13, 19:15
Firearms related so I will have to weigh in.Ducati, since you are an ex rifleman I can understand you see firearms in the hands of another person are really scary but it is rather arrogant and frankly a little bemusing that you think only military personel who are taught to kill people with their firearms are safe to use them and that you assume every non serviceman who finds the need or pleasure in using a gun is scary and a psycho. Do you have a reason for this fear and ideas or is it just irrational?OP, report the shooter, they may or may not be legal, let the police find out. I am never put out when the police visit to check up on my recent shooting.
newweecroft
24-Sep-13, 19:20
Also I am well aware that I am a psycho, what I think you mean though is a potential serial killer not a psycho. Psychopaths can function quite easily and safely in society as long as they are not at the extreme end of the scale and have self control.Ducati, during your military career, did you ever kill anyone?
Firearms related so I will have to weigh in.Ducati, since you are an ex rifleman I can understand you see firearms in the hands of another person are really scary but it is rather arrogant and frankly a little bemusing that you think only military personel who are taught to kill people with their firearms are safe to use them and that you assume every non serviceman who finds the need or pleasure in using a gun is scary and a psycho. Do you have a reason for this fear and ideas or is it just irrational?OP, report the shooter, they may or may not be legal, let the police find out. I am never put out when the police visit to check up on my recent shooting.
Interesting memory you have. No, not irrational. I happen to know that the people that are responsible for approving and monitoring firearms licencing are incompetent, lazy and don't even seem to understand their responsibility.
One thing that would help is to increase the costs of a licence to actually reflect the cost of monitoring. This would allow it to be policed properly and deterr applications from people who don't really need one.
neilsermk1
25-Sep-13, 12:35
Interesting memory you have. No, not irrational. I happen to know that the people that are responsible for approving and monitoring firearms licencing are incompetent, lazy and don't even seem to understand their responsibility.
One thing that would help is to increase the costs of a licence to actually reflect the cost of monitoring. This would allow it to be policed properly and deterr applications from people who don't really need one.
Like for instance the cost of policing vehicle misuse?
They still kill many many more than fire arms in this country.
Like for instance the cost of policing vehicle misuse?
They still kill many many more than fire arms in this country.
Yeah, yeah, we've done that, do keep up.
Yeah, yeah, we've done that, do keep up.
gotta agree with you Ducati , the discussion is verging on rediculious even petty now.
orkneycadian
28-Sep-13, 07:15
One thing that would help is to increase the costs of a licence to actually reflect the cost of monitoring. This would allow it to be policed properly and deterr applications from people who don't really need one.
This suggests that the level of monitoring required exceeds the budget allowed for it. Perhaps due to police time being wasted on call outs by the mis-informed over zealous. Increasing the budget may be one solution, but reducing the level of "false alarms" may be another.
If I reported every car I saw to the police as a potential drunk driver, I would soon get a stern warning from them for wasting their time. Drink driving is a serious concern to the police, but if I expected them to investigate every single car I report to them, they would soon clamp down on me.
Statistically, only a very small minority of drivers at any one time are over the limit. Just the same as statistically, only a very small minority of shooters are behaving illegally. I might even hazard a guess that at any one point in time, there are more drivers over the limit on UK roads than there are illegal shooters on UK land. And even then, the "illegality" of the shooters may be trivial rather than dangerous - For example, shooting rabbits or pigeons on land without permission, rather than firing off AK-47's in the direction of nearby villages.
This suggests that the level of monitoring required exceeds the budget allowed for it. Perhaps due to police time being wasted on call outs by the mis-informed over zealous. Increasing the budget may be one solution, but reducing the level of "false alarms" may be another.
If I reported every car I saw to the police as a potential drunk driver, I would soon get a stern warning from them for wasting their time. Drink driving is a serious concern to the police, but if I expected them to investigate every single car I report to them, they would soon clamp down on me.
Statistically, only a very small minority of drivers at any one time are over the limit. Just the same as statistically, only a very small minority of shooters are behaving illegally. I might even hazard a guess that at any one point in time, there are more drivers over the limit on UK roads than there are illegal shooters on UK land. And even then, the "illegality" of the shooters may be trivial rather than dangerous - For example, shooting rabbits or pigeons on land without permission, rather than firing off AK-47's in the direction of nearby villages.
Why do you keep going on about cars?
RagnarRocks
30-Sep-13, 08:49
Why do you keep going on about cars?Prime example of why civvies shouldn't be allowed weapons we have one who thinks a car and a weapon are the same thing !!! Personal view is the armed forces and some section of the police have legitimate uses for weapons! Some farmers may have a requirement for a shotgun or small bore rifle for vermin but those aside I see no reason for weapons in society. They are designed for one thing only KILLING !All other users want the, either as sport recreational usage ...I'd not want to be in the same town with someone who enjoys killings random animals for fun commonly known as a precursor for bigger prey. Or the others are those who just wish to kill and destroy because its the way they are wired. Shooting at night near occupied housing is reckless and irresponsible and whoever is doing it should be arrested brought to trial and locked up as a lesson for the others who think its ok.
orkneycadian
30-Sep-13, 12:51
Use cars, or whatever you fancy. I am not fussed. In any case, the comparison was to do with the dangers of drink driving, as opposed to cars. I could reverse RagnorRocks' point and suggest that he/she thinks that drinking and driving is nothing to get concerned about, and that polices efforts should concentrate on legal shooting, whilst everyone else careers home from the pub after 10 pints.
Cars aside then, I am still prepared to hazard a guess then that within any 24 hour period (as opposed to at any point in time as I used before), there are less people shooting illegally and dangerously in the UK than there are;
Operating plant on a construction site whilst still under the influence of alchohol after last nights session
Engaging in domestic violence
Putting their own health, and the safety of others at risk, through excessive alcohol consumption
Putting at risk the health of their children by smoking in the home, car, or any other place not covered by smoking legislation.
Putting the lives of emergency services at increased risk by wandering off onto mountains in a pair of shorts and flip flops.
I could compare all day.
Ragnorrocks highlights some of the issues. He/She says he would not want to be in the same town as someone who kills small animals, and also that night shooting, even near inhabited housing is dangerous and reckless. This suggest he or she is probably a townie, with little understanding of life outside the 30 mph limits. I too would suspect that killing animals in the town with a gun is reckless, and in honestly, I cant say I have ever seen many rabbit infestations in shopping malls.
It would however suggest that townies should be banned from buying or possessing things like fly paper, fly spray, mouse traps, rat traps, midge eaters or any other device that allows them to engage in the act of "killing random small animals". They should also be banned from buying anything like bleach that kills any poor harmless organisms that live under the toilet rim. We country folk can seem to manage without killing them off, primarily because we have septic tanks, but also since we are not eating our dinner off the underside of the rim.
If you don't like country living, theres plenty of towns you could live in! ;)
Thinking here that the plot has been lost, wandered to drunk driving , on the road s , on construction sites , domestic violence ,cant see what all that has to do with the original poster who was alarmed about shot s from a firearm close to his/her home ???, and going into statistics , i,ve no need to hazard a guess that there are millions more vehicle driver s than there are shooters. so placing one set against the other is meaningless .j.h.c. man even shooters drive cars.
so in Orcadians point of view ,that would make them double the risk .. huh??
orkneycadian
30-Sep-13, 13:49
According to a BBC news website, there are 141,569 shotguns and 72,005 firearms legally owned in Scotland. (source = http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-22702176)
In Scotland in 2011, there were 13 deaths arising from guns. (source = http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/scotland) Takes a bit of drilling down to find it.
Death rate due to guns = (141,569 + 72005) / 13 = 1 death per year per 16,429 guns
Number of road vehicles in Scotland = 2.7 million (source = http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Transport-Travel/TrendMotorVehicles )
Number of road fatalities in Scotland = 170 (source = http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/news/road-casualties-statistics-2012 )
Death rate due to road accidents = 2.7 million / 170 = 1 death per year per 15,882 registered road vehicles.
So, there is a higher death rate on the roads than there is from guns. And thats the rate per gun/vehicle and taking into account the higher number of vehicles on the road than there are guns in the field.
The OP should therefore have been more concerned that he or she saw a car in the night near his / her house, as there is a higher risk that it would have run him or her over than of being shot by the gun. To the OP then. I hope you reported the car that almost killed you to the police, and that they have suitable spoken with the driver and chastised them in relation to driving round the country at night, putting lives at risk.
Laughing out loud here, thats exactly the response i was expecting.
vehicles are a way of life without them the modern world could not function.
gun s are a way of death , that,s the reason they were invented AND are used (to kill ) no other purpose. vehicle s help save lives. ambulances. police cars. firetrucks etc.
but your splitting hairs here to suit your own ends .
i dont know the figures but i think vehicle.s outway guns IN NUMBERS. there are million s more vehicles than there are guns.
so taking percentages on the no of gun s & the no of vehicles about i think you,d find guns kill more %of people than vehicles.
so taking traffic fatality s into the equasion you have to take wars etc into same equasion , after all road wars ..
world wars , invasions, murders , all have to be counted . BUT, THAT S NO HELP TO THE PERSON WHO HEARD THE GUNSHOTS NEAR HIS/HER HOME IN THE DARK OF NIGHT.
orkneycadian
30-Sep-13, 15:27
so taking percentages on the no of gun s & the no of vehicles about i think you,d find guns kill more %of people than vehicles.
[lol] So you genuinely didn't read my posting then? Or else you are not arithmetically able to convert a "one in XXXX" number into a percentage.
Go back and read my posting again. Then have a google for basic numeracy classes in your area. You may find them helpful!
I suspect there will never be any agreement in this thread, and from some, it appears that there will always be unfair portrayal of the tools of the trade that those involved in the country require. Its the classic townie vs farmer debate, where the townie forms the opinion that beef and lamb comes from Tesco in little polystyrene trays and not an actually from an animal that wanders around in a field eating grass.
It may come as a shock to townies when they decide to move from their 2 up 2 down in the city out to the "idyllic rural retreat", that its not all just country golf courses and little pubs up little lanes. The animals that provide the meat that goes into those Tesco trays live here too, and we drive fairly big and slow tractors and implements from one field to the next to make sure that these animals can be provided for.
Anyway, concensus will never be reached I don't think. If country life troubles you, there are probably fewer guns per head of population in your nearest big city, where I am sure there are plenty nice little apartments that may be suitable. And there are probably more adult numeracy classes nearby too! ;)
According to a BBC news website, there are 141,569 shotguns and 72,005 firearms legally owned in Scotland. (source = http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-22702176)
In Scotland in 2011, there were 13 deaths arising from guns. (source = http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/scotland) Takes a bit of drilling down to find it.
Death rate due to guns = (141,569 + 72005) / 13 = 1 death per year per 16,429 guns
Number of road vehicles in Scotland = 2.7 million (source = http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Statistics/Browse/Transport-Travel/TrendMotorVehicles )
Number of road fatalities in Scotland = 170 (source = http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/news/road-casualties-statistics-2012 )
Death rate due to road accidents = 2.7 million / 170 = 1 death per year per 15,882 registered road vehicles.
So, there is a higher death rate on the roads than there is from guns. And thats the rate per gun/vehicle and taking into account the higher number of vehicles on the road than there are guns in the field.
The OP should therefore have been more concerned that he or she saw a car in the night near his / her house, as there is a higher risk that it would have run him or her over than of being shot by the gun. To the OP then. I hope you reported the car that almost killed you to the police, and that they have suitable spoken with the driver and chastised them in relation to driving round the country at night, putting lives at risk.
I am willing to bet that there is also a higher death rate in hospitals and care homes than any of the above.
Does that make them a dangerous place to be?
orkneycadian
30-Sep-13, 15:59
Yes, especially if you go there by car or other road vehicle! [lol]
i used to be shooter my own self and dont have an issue with guns .but how can you POSSIBLY compare a gun to a car.
Up here, to me ,my car is a must have to get about . my guns wer.nt . I had a shotgun license & an open firearm certificate for a proper hunting rifle , large calibre. but now i would rather shoot those beautifull birds & animals with a camera.
that s now my choice, As far as the food chain is concerned i go to the butcher or tesco or where ever suit s me.
If anyone wants to shoot they should have the proper certificates & the permission of the land owner and they should show consideration for the welfare & well being of the folk s around them .
i did read your post Orcadian and im not convinced one iota. Im sure YOU are a safe shooter but like everything else in this world MISTAKES happen ...I honestly believe that there aught to be stricter control on the issue of firearm licensing. After all one has to pass a driving test to drive a dangerous weapon such as a car .So why not to a gun???
people poaching in the dead of night are the careless kind that care less who or what they disturb and scare.
Any way im through with this topic and i shall not comment on it again.
RagnarRocks
30-Sep-13, 17:55
Use cars, or whatever you fancy. I am not fussed. In any case, the comparison was to do with the dangers of drink driving, as opposed to cars. I could reverse RagnorRocks' point and suggest that he/she thinks that drinking and driving is nothing to get concerned about, and that polices efforts should concentrate on legal shooting, whilst everyone else careers home from the pub after 10 pints.Cars aside then, I am still prepared to hazard a guess then that within any 24 hour period (as opposed to at any point in time as I used before), there are less people shooting illegally and dangerously in the UK than there are;
Operating plant on a construction site whilst still under the influence of alchohol after last nights session
Engaging in domestic violence
Putting their own health, and the safety of others at risk, through excessive alcohol consumption
Putting at risk the health of their children by smoking in the home, car, or any other place not covered by smoking legislation.
Putting the lives of emergency services at increased risk by wandering off onto mountains in a pair of shorts and flip flops.
I could compare all day.Ragnorrocks highlights some of the issues. He/She says he would not want to be in the same town as someone who kills small animals, and also that night shooting, even near inhabited housing is dangerous and reckless. This suggest he or she is probably a townie, with little understanding of life outside the 30 mph limits. I too would suspect that killing animals in the town with a gun is reckless, and in honestly, I cant say I have ever seen many rabbit infestations in shopping malls.It would however suggest that townies should be banned from buying or possessing things like fly paper, fly spray, mouse traps, rat traps, midge eaters or any other device that allows them to engage in the act of "killing random small animals". They should also be banned from buying anything like bleach that kills any poor harmless organisms that live under the toilet rim. We country folk can seem to manage without killing them off, primarily because we have septic tanks, but also since we are not eating our dinner off the underside of the rim.If you don't like country living, theres plenty of towns you could live in! ;)I am a he for starters also an ex member of the armed forces and quite used to handling weapons of many sizes and calibres also I mentioned in my post there are legitimate reasons for farmers to hold some small bore weapons and shotguns for vermin control but I doubt most of the weapons in ownership are used for vermin/pest control, from my experience they are owned by hooray henrys and clods with no training who just like to shoot things.Trying to mix the issue up with drunk drivers etc is frankly ridiculous there are laws to deal with them and if you want to find a drunk driver I doubt you'll find one skulking in the bushes late at night. Infact if you can't distinguish that there is a fundamental difference between guns and cars and the relevant safety laws surrounding them, that would lead me consider you definitely not the sort to handle weapons without strict supervision. As for name calling ( townie )well that just shows the maturity level and mentality of those who argue weapons are safe in their hands (cough ) I would struggle to name a car crash act of domestic violence,smoking or wandering in the mountains that has shocked the nation to its core but can mention numerous weapons massacres that we can all reel off !
Going back to the original concern. If a supersonic rifle round spanged off a tree branch, for instance, at night or any other time for that matter, it doesn't matter which direction you were shooting, Prof Brian Cox himself couldn't tell you where it would end up, poss. a mile or more away.
i remember when i was young wee were shooting rats with a 410 i was only about 12, the burn ran through the village so it was close to the houses, anyway wee were not having much luck hitting them so wee went up the road got the 12 bore out lol, the dam thing used to knock us on ower ass, got a few then, the only thing was wee were a bit close to the local police mans house he came out and told us to get the hell up the fields and use it, the only complaints wee got was not coming back with anything, wee used to sell the things wee got to the local butcher to pay for the cartridges, wee used to walk through the village gun in hand used to get stopped by folk getting there orders in
try that now you would get like 20 police cars round you with armed response how times have change, i am only 43 so it wasn't that long ago folk didn't mind you doing a bit shooting
i remember when i was young wee were shooting rats with a 410 i was only about 12, the burn ran through the village so it was close to the houses, anyway wee were not having much luck hitting them so wee went up the road got the 12 bore out lol, the dam thing used to knock us on ower ass, got a few then, the only thing was wee were a bit close to the local police mans house he came out and told us to get the hell up the fields and use it, the only complaints wee got was not coming back with anything, wee used to sell the things wee got to the local butcher to pay for the cartridges, wee used to walk through the village gun in hand used to get stopped by folk getting there orders in
try that now you would get like 20 police cars round you with armed response how times have change, i am only 43 so it wasn't that long ago folk didn't mind you doing a bit shooting
Yes, life was cheap in olden times! :lol:
i remember when i was young wee were shooting rats with a 410 i was only about 12, the burn ran through the village so it was close to the houses, anyway wee were not having much luck hitting them so wee went up the road got the 12 bore out lol, the dam thing used to knock us on ower ass, got a few then, the only thing was wee were a bit close to the local police mans house he came out and told us to get the hell up the fields and use it, the only complaints wee got was not coming back with anything, wee used to sell the things wee got to the local butcher to pay for the cartridges, wee used to walk through the village gun in hand used to get stopped by folk getting there orders in
try that now you would get like 20 police cars round you with armed response how times have change, i am only 43 so it wasn't that long ago folk didn't mind you doing a bit shooting
Which butcher was buying rats?
not rats lol that was for fun rabbits and stuff mind you if wee could sell them wee would have rofl
orkneycadian
07-Oct-13, 20:53
Going back to the original concern. If a supersonic rifle round spanged off a tree branch, for instance, at night or any other time for that matter, it doesn't matter which direction you were shooting, Prof Brian Cox himself couldn't tell you where it would end up, poss. a mile or more away.
Prof Cox would probably be the ideal man to put this in perspective. We have already, without his help, learned that we are at greater risk of being run over by a car. Prof Cox would be the ideal man to slot the risk into a table of other things that might just kill us - Like falling meteorites, unfriendly green beings landing their spacecraft on the Causeymire and inflicting their death ray or of the sun exploding in a supernova and swallowing us all up. :roll:
So whats next on your hit list Ducati? Banning tractors in case there are any more agricultural accidents? A compulsory cull on all bulls in case a townie out walking their dog gets trampled? Fertility treatment for all rabbits and rats? ;)
Prof Cox would probably be the ideal man to put this in perspective. We have already, without his help, learned that we are at greater risk of being run over by a car. Prof Cox would be the ideal man to slot the risk into a table of other things that might just kill us - Like falling meteorites, unfriendly green beings landing their spacecraft on the Causeymire and inflicting their death ray or of the sun exploding in a supernova and swallowing us all up. :roll:
So whats next on your hit list Ducati? Banning tractors in case there are any more agricultural accidents? A compulsory cull on all bulls in case a townie out walking their dog gets trampled? Fertility treatment for all rabbits and rats? ;)
I don't have a list. You are the nutter with the list. Each of your posts are not making me feel safer and safer if that is the intention?
orkneycadian
08-Oct-13, 20:59
I suspect that I will never have the ability to make a paranoid reverse their thoughts and fears that folk are out to get them - I'll leave that for the professionals to do.
In the meantime, I'll continue to focus on what farmers and landowners do, and use the land to grow food for the population (paranoid or otherwise), and use every available legal means to control the pests and vermin that do their best to eat or otherwise spoil the populations food. In some cases, this involves shooting them, including rabbits. As the most effective time to shoot rabbits is after dark, then that safe and legal practice will continue on lands round these parts at the very least.
If there are any paranoids around that are concerned that farmers, landowners and folk they give shooting permissions to are out to get them, then they are completely at liberty to share their thoughts, concerns and fears with any quack of their choice.
I suspect that I will never have the ability to make a paranoid reverse their thoughts and fears that folk are out to get them - I'll leave that for the professionals to do.
In the meantime, I'll continue to focus on what farmers and landowners do, and use the land to grow food for the population (paranoid or otherwise), and use every available legal means to control the pests and vermin that do their best to eat or otherwise spoil the populations food. In some cases, this involves shooting them, including rabbits. As the most effective time to shoot rabbits is after dark, then that safe and legal practice will continue on lands round these parts at the very least.
If there are any paranoids around that are concerned that farmers, landowners and folk they give shooting permissions to are out to get them, then they are completely at liberty to share their thoughts, concerns and fears with any quack of their choice.
But don't stand too near the quack at night in case you get your head blown off. :lol:
orkneycadian
08-Oct-13, 23:50
Just keep taking the tablets Ducati. The voices might go away eventually.
Just keep taking the tablets Ducati. The voices might go away eventually.
If you really believe that it is unreasonable to be concerned that random people with guns are driving about and shooting near your house at night (and are not just trolling) then there is genuinely something wrong with you. You certainly should not be allowed a licence for a firearm or shotgun, or anything sharper than a banana as far as I'm concerned, and I only hope you are caught soon.
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