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View Full Version : should evangelical christian groups be allowed in our schools



outsidethebox
16-Sep-13, 16:11
Because they have been in Pennyland today will be there tomorrow and will be at the high school in their bus every evening this week

Take a look at pwamm.com to see who's behind it.

captain chaos
16-Sep-13, 16:36
There should be no religous teaching at any primary school and they should scrap religious observance in all non-denominational schools.

Rheghead
16-Sep-13, 16:37
Because they have been in Pennyland today will be there tomorrow and will be at the high school in their bus every evening this week

Take a look at pwamm.com to see who's behind it.

It's Ok if an Imam is allowed to come in and preach his Koran stuff next week.

rich62_uk
16-Sep-13, 16:48
I dont have an issue with it at all that stands for any religion, if you dont like it then you can I would imagine remove your child ?

Rheghead
16-Sep-13, 17:15
I dont have an issue with it at all that stands for any religion, if you dont like it then you can I would imagine remove your child ?

Every parent has the right to remove their child from all religious observance in school. The activities that the child does has to be meaningful and educational while the others go bible bashing.

Alrock
16-Sep-13, 17:19
This should not be happening, if it is though it should be opt-in not opt-out.

rob1
16-Sep-13, 17:19
I have a massive problem with this. Children go to school to be educated not to practice religion. The only reason I believed in god during my childhood was because I was told at school by my teachers that there was one. We were told about how to pray and all the other mumbojumbo. It is effectivly brainwashing.

Rheghead
16-Sep-13, 17:37
This should not be happening, if it is though it should be opt-in not opt-out.

It's the SNP's attempt to brainwash kids at school.

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Education/Schools/curriculum/ACE/Religion

squidge
16-Sep-13, 18:35
I dont have a problem with Assembly or even prayers or a quiet reflection - the schools my children attended made it clear what their policy was on these matters and I was quite happy to go along with that or I would have sent my child elsewhere or withdrawn them from the assembly.

Religious and Moral Education is not about religious observance - its about people and what makes them the way they are, how their beliefs influence them and the history of religions in the world. Its also about philosophy and right and wrong. My son took RME to higher and enjoyed it - it was interesting and allowed those studying it to look at various moral dilemmas from the point of view of different religious viewpoints. Something that some of the politicians talking about the niqab today should think about.

If youa re worried about it why dont you pop along and have a word with PWAMM.im sure that they will be happy to show you their "bus" and what they are talking to your children about.

billmoseley
16-Sep-13, 19:17
I think children should get a balanced education and religion being part of it so as long as children get the chance to learn about all religion then i don't see the problem

Rheghead
16-Sep-13, 19:22
Kids should be allowed to grow up in a religion free environment, then they can make up their own mind. Anything else is foisting a mythology on impressionable minds as fact.

Alrock
16-Sep-13, 19:47
The only place Religion should have in their education is as part of History due to the fact that many historical events were heavily influenced by religion.

You can have moral education without religion...

rich62_uk
16-Sep-13, 20:05
They should also be brought up in an environment free from sex, violence and drugs. Now all we have to do is get the games, internet and TV providers on board with the same ideas. Maybe the religious angle just redresses the balance.

outsidethebox
16-Sep-13, 20:16
I certainly have no problem with education of the fact that religions exist, I have no issue with education informing them of the different religions and the major systems of belief.

I have a total and utter objection to an extremist christian grouping that puts out flyers to school kids about super heros, and videos music and pizza on a bus at thurso high school, but fails to mention an evangelical agenda. This is not the first time this sort of thing has happened in Highland schools, and I find it a very worrying trend.

secrets in symmetry
16-Sep-13, 23:21
Because they have been in Pennyland today will be there tomorrow and will be at the high school in their bus every evening this week

Take a look at pwamm.com to see who's behind it.Why not visit them in their bus at the high school, and ask them to explain the fine-tuning argument for God? I bet they won't know what you're on about. :cool:

outsidethebox
17-Sep-13, 06:54
I treat real life like the virtual, never feed trolls and certainly never enter their cave to do so!

RecQuery
17-Sep-13, 12:27
Actually reminded of this recent story, thought that was what the post was about:

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/school-bosses-kick-out-extremist-2257795
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/parents-outrage-extremist-religious-sect-2254926

One kind of wonders what the reaction would be if this was an extremist Islamic sect.

Children should be protected from this sort of thing, they are too young to decide what their opinions on religion are. You wouldn't expect a child to make decisions on their political leanings or even to know what their taste in music or books is yet them picking and following a religion is entirely normal to some evidentially.

squidge
17-Sep-13, 15:34
Actually reminded of this recent story, thought that was what the post was about:http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/school-bosses-kick-out-extremist-2257795http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/parents-outrage-extremist-religious-sect-2254926One kind of wonders what the reaction would be if this was an extremist Islamic sect.Children should be protected from this sort of thing, they are too young to decide what their opinions on religion are. You wouldn't expect a child to make decisions on their political leanings or even to know what their taste in music or books is yet them picking and following a religion is entirely normal to some evidentially.

I knew my political attitude by the time I was about 14. I couldnt have labelled it but the foundation of my adult opinions were already formed. My 5 year old knows what sort of books he likes and my four year old prefers Scooby Doo to Team Umizoomi. Rheg says children should be allowed to grow up in a religion free environment but then suggests that they could make their own minds up. How do they do that when they have no exposure to it?

There is mention of brainwashing but you know the best way to protect children from brainwashing is to talk about stuff. Its the easiest thing there is, here for those that are struggling is my guide to preventing brainwashing after they have attended one nights bus thing

Hey mum it was great i had pizza

Thats nice darling did you talk about God?

Yes mum

What did you think

Well it sounded sort of fun. Do you believe in God mum

Nope. Do you know why I dont believe in God?

Nope

Ok ill tell you...... .......... What do you think?

And there it is, you do this already Im sure. Strikes me that the same concerns are being raised here as we once had about stuff like homosexuality and Im sure none of you believe that. Children must be protected from gay people because they might be brainwashed into thinking they are gay. Children are naturally tolerant. If you truly want them to make their own mind up leave them to decide to go or not. Then if they choose to go talk to them about how you feel and what they think.

outsidethebox
17-Sep-13, 15:45
bit patronising there squidge. There is certainly no lack of discussion on any subject in my household, including religion.

I still do not believe that schools should be exposing young people to organisations whose sole objective to is to convert people to christianity (or any other religion). Or at the very least notifying parents first and allowing them to make a choice that they would prefer that their child does not take part in such activities.

squidge
17-Sep-13, 17:26
Well lol outside the box. There you go - point made.

I had no doubt that you And others who have muttered darkly about brainwashing on this thread know how to deal with this through conversation. Its a shame I had to roll my eyes and be sarky to make you remember this.

YOU know your kids. You have had the conversations already. My 4 year old asked her daddy what colour God's skin was on Sunday. He asked her - she thought it ws green. We were a little baffled unti we realised she was talking about Godzilla!!!! A bit of pizza and a computer game wont turn kids into ministers. Nor will bible stories in P3. If it really bothers you write and complain to the education people or bring it up at a parent council meeting but Dont worry about the bus. I remember from being a kid that religious people who try to be cool very very seldom are anything other than embarrassing irritants.

Rheghead
17-Sep-13, 17:39
A bit of pizza and a computer game wont turn kids into ministers.

Are you using speech recognition software?

secrets in symmetry
17-Sep-13, 23:23
I treat real life like the virtual, never feed trolls and certainly never enter their cave to do so!You aren't feeding trolls, you're educating them.

Go and visit them in their van. You can save them from the drudgery of a lifetime of trying to convert unresponsive children. It's good for the children, and it's good for them. It might even be good for you. :cool:

RecQuery
18-Sep-13, 15:38
I knew my political attitude by the time I was about 14. I couldnt have labelled it but the foundation of my adult opinions were already formed. My 5 year old knows what sort of books he likes and my four year old prefers Scooby Doo to Team Umizoomi. Rheg says children should be allowed to grow up in a religion free environment but then suggests that they could make their own minds up. How do they do that when they have no exposure to it?

There is mention of brainwashing but you know the best way to protect children from brainwashing is to talk about stuff. Its the easiest thing there is, here for those that are struggling is my guide to preventing brainwashing after they have attended one nights bus thing

Hey mum it was great i had pizza

Thats nice darling did you talk about God?

Yes mum

What did you think

Well it sounded sort of fun. Do you believe in God mum

Nope. Do you know why I dont believe in God?

Nope

Ok ill tell you...... .......... What do you think?

And there it is, you do this already Im sure. Strikes me that the same concerns are being raised here as we once had about stuff like homosexuality and Im sure none of you believe that. Children must be protected from gay people because they might be brainwashed into thinking they are gay. Children are naturally tolerant. If you truly want them to make their own mind up leave them to decide to go or not. Then if they choose to go talk to them about how you feel and what they think.

Children are predisposed to believe what they're told by those in authority.

I don't imagine your political opinions were fully formed by the the time your were 14 nor did anyone expect them to be that's the difference, the Conservative party didn't come to your school and proselytise - well Cameron hasn't done that yet anyway, but watch this space - you were free to change your opinions.

Your children won't always like Scooby Doo and if they change their opinion when they're older, or even right now suddenly decide they prefer Team Umizoomi to Scooby Doo. I don't imagine legions of Scooby Fans will tell them they're going to die in a world without him or that he is the only one who truly loves them and that they should hurry up and die so they can be with him. People don't threaten to disown their children if they don't believe in Scooby Doo or to not take them to the doctor when they're sick and instead pray to Scooby Doo.

Changes in such opinions will be a fairly minor thing. Whereas removing yourself from a religious community or reversing your indoctrination, no so much.

On the most part people dislike when Toy or Food manufacturers target children and specifically market towards them. On the most post people deplore the cult tactics used by Scientology and other minor religions and cults. Yet when a major religion does any of these things it's seemingly fine, you have people coming out of the woodwork and praising them.

maverick
18-Sep-13, 21:16
Having read some of the posts in this thread, I would like to dip my oar in the water. I think teaching children about Christianity is a good thing, I feel it would be better for our children to understand who God is, after all how many parents often use the phrase Oh my God and for God's sake and Christ this and Jesus that. After all our children are allowed to go to school and learn about reproduction, smoking, alcohol and drugs. I have often wondered why the UK has the highest rate of teenage pregnancy and abortion in Europe, and why the UK has the heaviest teenage binge drinkers in Europe especially teenage girls. I recently read somewhere that the UK has the highest rate of drug abuse in Europe, and has one of the highest number of drug related deaths. It would appear that as a society we are happy to allow our children to pursue any avenue they want, as long as it doesn't involve God. I believe that all Christians would wish to guide our children away from those types of dangers. Yet there are parents who actively encourage their children to pursue these habits. I for one have no problem with evangelism, but I would be very wary of the group who are doing the evangelising.

Alrock
18-Sep-13, 21:39
After all our children are allowed to go to school and learn about reproduction, smoking, alcohol and drugs.

That is education, an evangelic equivalent would be to encourage them to go out there, have sex, smoke cigarettes, drink alcohol & take drugs.

maverick
18-Sep-13, 23:02
That is education, an evangelic equivalent would be to encourage them to go out there, have sex, smoke cigarettes, drink alcohol & take drugs. Unfortunately it's education or what our children are learning in the education establishments, that's leading them down these various routes, and probably the reason that the UK top the charts in Europe for various substance abuses.

secrets in symmetry
18-Sep-13, 23:37
That is education, an evangelic equivalent would be to encourage them to go out there, have sex, smoke cigarettes, drink alcohol & take drugs.That's my kind of school!

Come to think of it, that's exactly what we did. :cool: