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View Full Version : Ban the Eurocopter 332, L1, L2 & EC 225 superpuma. sign the petition.



vwgolf
25-Aug-13, 20:51
If you have any friends or family who work offshore please sign the change.org petition to ban the superpuma choppersThese choppers have had there chance and know one in the industry has faith in these death traps.Lets do our very best to get these out the sky once and for all.Thanks vdub.

mi16
25-Aug-13, 22:17
If you have any friends or family who work offshore please sign the change.org petition to ban the superpuma choppersThese choppers have had there chance and know one in the industry has faith in these death traps.Lets do our very best to get these out the sky once and for all.Thanks vdub.

Are you privvy to some information regarding the recent incident involving the L2 theat the rest of the industry does not know of yet?

I hope your petition is worded better than your post here.

theone
25-Aug-13, 22:46
I work offshore but I'll wait until the findings of the crash investigation before making any decisions on whether or not I feel these are safe.

I actually laughed when I heard one campaign group demanding the the army should fly us offshore to ensure we're safe. That'll be the army that still flies chinooks that were taken out the industry after workers raised concerns of their safety after a crash 27 years ago.

Too many people jumping on the bandwagon at the moment.

Unless an unmanageable fault is found, my main concern won't be the super puma, it will be the overweight people allowed to sit next to me onboard who couldn't fit through the window in an emergency.

mi16
26-Aug-13, 00:06
I work offshore but I'll wait until the findings of the crash investigation before making any decisions on whether or not I feel these are safe.

I actually laughed when I heard one campaign group demanding the the army should fly us offshore to ensure we're safe. That'll be the army that still flies chinooks that were taken out the industry after workers raised concerns of their safety after a crash 27 years ago.

Too many people jumping on the bandwagon at the moment.

Unless an unmanageable fault is found, my main concern won't be the super puma, it will be the overweight people allowed to sit next to me onboard who couldn't fit through the window in an emergency.

Indeed, always get out of the lounge either first or last to ensure a window or door seat.

Droopy
26-Aug-13, 05:47
I work offshore but I'll wait until the findings of the crash investigation before making any decisions on whether or not I feel these are safe.I actually laughed when I heard one campaign group demanding the the army should fly us offshore to ensure we're safe. That'll be the army that still flies chinooks that were taken out the industry after workers raised concerns of their safety after a crash 27 years ago.Too many people jumping on the bandwagon at the moment.Unless an unmanageable fault is found, my main concern won't be the super puma, it will be the overweight people allowed to sit next to me onboard who couldn't fit through the window in an emergency.
Excellent and brave post there Theone.

Its always the hard hitting things that people are afraid to say at times like these that are actually very relevant. Overweight people wouldn't have caused a chopper to ditch but reality is that they will prevent themselves and others from exiting a window to safety. But yet due to PC, it's allowed to continue. The industry has attempted to promote healthier living etc but they havent actually come out with a "fat people can't fly" policy........yet.

And the bandwagon aspect is well and truly with us also, facebook wives campaigns only stir up knee jerk reactions and play on raw emotions and the feeling of shock in the immediate aftermath of tragedies like this. There is a choice for everyone who works offshore not to.

Oil rig work has the potential for danger, it's a choice between risk and lifestyle. The industry needs choppers and they will always be needed, and unfortunately more accidents will happen.

Before the guilt mongers jump down my throat about the above, this post is not specifically about the most recent tragedy, but more about what has become an unspoken problem that is treated with a fingers crossed approach offshore.

Simply put, the emergency window exits on choppers are impossible to exit by some people on a flight due to their size, if this was a building onshore it wouldn't be allowed, but a chopper exits can only be a certain size due to the fact it's a helicopter.

vwgolf
26-Aug-13, 06:18
Mi 16. 1 its not my petition.2 its hard to write comment on the org on your mobile phone.3 Your not the one offshore having to think about their future. Very little of us have trust in the superpuma so please sign the petition.Mi 16 if your still not happy just keep it shut. Thanks vdub

Gronnuck
26-Aug-13, 07:48
I would have thought that if a worker had no faith in their equipment or environment they would resign and take a 'safer' job elsewhere. You only have to look at the turnover in the military or the police. So what is it about off-shore oil workers that compels them to continue to work in such a dangerous environment?

mi16
26-Aug-13, 08:51
Mi 16. 1 its not my petition.2 its hard to write comment on the org on your mobile phone.3 Your not the one offshore having to think about their future. Very little of us have trust in the superpuma so please sign the petition.Mi 16 if your still not happy just keep it shut. Thanks vdub

1. Thank goodness, created by knee jerk merchants for knee jerk merchants.
2. No it is not.
3. Really..... I could've sworn that Tiger took me to the NSP on Friday, why is all this sea around me? why was I up in the middle of the night with a GPA howling in my ear? I'm so confused now!!

The reality is, if you want to work offshore you have to use a chopper to get there and back, and as the facts still remain unknown about the latest incident, I will be sitting on the fence until we get some clarity. For all you know the pilots may have made an error (not that I am suggesting they have).
You are still at a far greater risk of death driving your car than as an aviation passenger.

vwgolf
26-Aug-13, 10:21
Pilot error ? to drop a chopper out the sky with no mayday call, I dont thinks so !!!!Driving to work crashes are caused mainly by people error or weather conditions, not equipment failure like these super pumas dropping out the sky !!!!!!You must be a true northsea tiger !!!!!!

Phill
26-Aug-13, 10:30
if your still not happy just keep it shut. Thanks vdubHmmmm, so you have th right to demand people sign an ill thought out petition but no one else has the right to question it?

I've followed each of these tragedies very closely, the first couple in real time as they were happening. This one, so far, we do not know what happened.
The previous ones included pilot error and a fault that has been rectified.
The S92 also has had issues. The military machines that I've seen reference to being used are nowhere near to civil standard of safety for many reasons.

The 330 series of EC/aerospatial is undeniably a global workhorse with a good safety history. Helicopters by their design bring inherent risk when considered along side fixed wing aircraft, everything that keeps it in control in the air is all channeled though one point. If anything goes wrong you have very little else to fall back on to help with the situation.
But that is the same for every helicopter type.

Do you really prefer boat & basket transfers? Because if you remove the 330 series what else have you got in the region, a handful of S92's and a few Dauphins or AW139's (half to third capacity).
And once you increase the use of these, you increase the risk and shift the statistics. From following other forums it seems clear that their are questions about the UK North Sea operations, but these don't really concern the type specifically.

Additionally there has been for a while, questions over the size & fitness of some of the peeps on these flights. Who deals with this and how is an issue for further investigation.
But, knee jerk half baked reactions on the like of Facebook, filled with half facts and effectively lies, demanding all and sundry sign a petition isn't a sensible way forward.

Informed debate backed up by facts is.
Let the investigators do their work first.

mi16
26-Aug-13, 10:36
Pilot error ? to drop a chopper out the sky with no mayday call, I dont thinks so !!!!Driving to work crashes are caused mainly by people error or weather conditions, not equipment failure like these super pumas dropping out the sky !!!!!!You must be a true northsea tiger !!!!!!

I could be wrong here but was the helicopter not at a low altitude at the time of the incident? therefore leaving little time to make a mayday call.

golach
26-Aug-13, 10:49
Mi 16. 1 its not my petition.2 its hard to write comment on the org on your mobile phone.3 Your not the one offshore having to think about their future. Very little of us have trust in the superpuma so please sign the petition.Mi 16 if your still not happy just keep it shut. Thanks vdub
Remarks like that,just put me off signing the petition. You have not done yourself or the cause any favours.

mi16
26-Aug-13, 11:52
vwgolf

I assume from your postings that you are an offshore worker?
You are also clearly unhappy with the Superpuma range of helicopter. I have my concerns regarding them also.
What will your stance be if/when you are asked to fly on a Superpuma again?
Will you fly or will you walk away from the job?

hedgehogger
26-Aug-13, 21:32
Show some respect for those that have lost their lives and their family and friends instead of just barging into a forum demanding every user sign a petition!

Whilst you have no knowledge whatsoever (and until you do!) of the circumstances surrounding the ditching it is just plain stupid of you to speculate and cry out for blood
The SP in various guises is used worldwide and has no worse a safety record than any other heli in current service. In the recent few years that SP's have been in the news there have been loads of other makes of helis ditching or crashing but you don't seem to want them banned? There are still helis in service that were designed nearly 50 years ago! many of them have suffered failures and crashes over the years and far more than SP's have....do you want them to stop flying too?

Do us all a favour and stop trolling the forum with your "expert" views and opinions and let the real experts tell us what happened!
Meanwhile, while you are spouting off on the forum, my thoughts are with the families of those who lost their lives and i hope the survivors recover fully and speedily......

theone
27-Aug-13, 19:21
Vwgolf,

I was wondering when you'll be campaigning to ban the Sikorsky S92's. One of these non super pumas was forced to land, and is now stuck awaiting pickup from, the stena don since yesterday.

Engineers flown out to the rig found large metal fragments in the lube oil.

Nothing mechanical is invincible.

Droopy
28-Aug-13, 07:19
One of these non super pumas was forced to land, and is now stuck awaiting pickup from, the stena don since yesterday.Engineers flown out to the rig found large metal fragments in the lube oil Have Facebook wives been made aware of this?......

mi16
28-Aug-13, 09:11
Have Facebook wives been made aware of this?......Who cares?If they don't realise that other models of helicopter have their issues they should just get back to the kitchen.

mi16
22-Oct-13, 19:17
Pilot error ? to drop a chopper out the sky with no mayday call, I dont thinks so !!!!

Its looking very much like this was the case, hows that petition going?

Django
23-Oct-13, 13:12
I work offshore, and I have no qualms about flying in the Puma variants. None. The accident rate per hours flown is extremely good. And as for the OP saying that the vast majority of those who work offshore think the Puma's are "death traps" is talking out of his rear. The majority of guys I know are happy to fly in it if the pilot is happy to sign for it. And if anyone wants to bother reading the recent AAIB Special Bulletin on the Shetland crash .. http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/S6-2013%20AS332%20L2%20G-WNSB.pdf .. you will see the aircraft crashed because the speed decayed from 100 knots to 35 knots when the nose was allowed to slowly rise, this bled off the airspeed and caused the crash. The pilots were getting height warnings from the autopilot while flying a three axis approach in bad weather. Maybe it was pilot error, maybe they were getting confusing warnings from their instruments. A cockpit in an approach is a busy place. Investigations are still ongoing.

I work as a ina job where I deal with flights all the time, I dont see what the OP claims. What I do see a lot of are workers who think the rules dont apply to them. All bags have to be accurately manifested but trying to get some to do it is like pulling teeth. Most workers dont want to weigh their bags when going home and claim "Its the same weight as when I came out" when they rarely are. I learned my lesson in taking guys words for it twice when the bags were weighed upon landing and I got pulled up for it. In both cases they were well over the claimed weight. You can see guys not paying attention when the safety video is on. Guys who know sod all about how the flights operate and the minima for operating helicopters wander in and tell me the weather is fine for the pilots to fly if its foggy !!, the attitude that choppers are just big taxi's is a false one. A lot of planning goes into each and every flight. And its dangerous, the big hint is that you have to do a survival course, wear a survival suit and watch a survival video before strapping in to what is basically a machine built by the lowest bidder. If that hasnt occured to anyone working offshore then they need to have a little think about their job choice.

Was quite amused by the claim that Army could fly us out in Chinooks. Have they just bought some because the Chinooks are operated by the RAF, and they are very different beasts to the civil versions used in the North Sea all those moons ago. An RAF Chinook once flew into the water at 40 knots and lfew right back out with no other damage than a missing cockpit door. Hardy machines.