View Full Version : Extraordinary Rendition
neilsermk1
11-Jun-13, 12:50
I have always had trouble with this term, not really understanding what it meant. Seems like it is an american term along the lines of "terminate with extreme prejudice" which as I understand it is to kill someone.
Extraordinary rendition as I understand it is to take a terrorist suspect to another country, beat the beejasus out of him to find out what he knows.
Wee Eck is getting his knickers in a knot about USA using Scottish airports as a stopover/refuelling stop en route to suitable destinations.
To be absolutely honest I dont give a rats ass if this was done or how many times it was done.
Your thoughts please
SNIP
To be absolutely honest I dont give a rats ass if this was done or how many times it was done.
Your thoughts please
Along the lines of ' The government wouldn't do anything wrong' ; 'These people MUST be terrorists if the Government says so'; 'The British never did anything underhand in the Second World War'.Any more fairy tales you believe.
This was the removal of suspects from one country in which torture was illegal, to a second country where torture was routine, so that they could be tortured for information.
This allowed the Americans to pretend that they wouldn't dream of doing anything like that, and remember these people were only suspects.
BTW - watch the film 'Unthinkable' if you really want to have your feelings about this placed into turmoil.
orkneycadian
11-Jun-13, 22:30
They can come in here and refuel if they want. You don't get asked in the petrol station if you are going to be using your car as a bank robbery getaway vehicle. Or even if you are a boy racer, about to go terrorising the neighbourhood.
Better off they land and get some fuel than fall out of the sky.
luskentyre
11-Jun-13, 23:42
They can come in here and refuel if they want. You don't get asked in the petrol station if you are going to be using your car as a bank robbery getaway vehicle. Or even if you are a boy racer, about to go terrorising the neighbourhood.
Better off they land and get some fuel than fall out of the sky.
Totally agree. What are the airport staff meant to do - feed the "suspect" with hot soup and scones and then create a diversion so the "suspect" can escape and live a life of tranquillity in Keiss?
What are the airport staff meant to do Ignore what's happening and take the money, obviously.
luskentyre
12-Jun-13, 22:44
Totally agree. What are the airport staff meant to do - feed the "suspect" with hot soup and scones and then create a diversion so the "suspect" can escape and live a life of tranquillity in Keiss?
Ignore what's happening and take the money, obviously.
Ah, I see. So they're meant to make the huge assumption that suspected terrorist is actually innocent and lose their jobs by refusing to carry out their duties. It's so obvious now...
Why would anyone loose their job on the assumption of the possible guilt of a terrorist?
orkneycadian
12-Jun-13, 23:08
Why would anyone not simply refuel a plane thats needing refulled?
orkneycadian
12-Jun-13, 23:23
Its not simply a case of "ignoring whats happening" and taking the money - Its about being paid to do what you are paid to do. If we ever get to the stage where we have to justify our air (or any other travel) to see if it meets with someone elses standards, its a sad day.
Oh dear, oh dear.
That is just what we do now, and others have to justify their air travel to us. There are a huge bag of rules and regulations relating to air travel, not to mention (dare I say it) human rights.
But, when it suits, all these rules can be ignored and we take the money.
neilsermk1
13-Jun-13, 12:43
Along the lines of ' The government wouldn't do anything wrong' ; 'These people MUST be terrorists if the Government says so'; 'The British never did anything underhand in the Second World War'.Any more fairy tales you believe.
This was the removal of suspects from one country in which torture was illegal, to a second country where torture was routine, so that they could be tortured for information.
This allowed the Americans to pretend that they wouldn't dream of doing anything like that, and remember these people were only suspects.
BTW - watch the film 'Unthinkable' if you really want to have your feelings about this placed into turmoil.
I asked what your thoughts were on extraordinary rendition.
Personally I dont care that UK airports were used to transfer suspected terrorists to a location where information could be extracted by other means.
You and I dont know what info has been extracted using such methods, we dont know how many atrocities have been averted.
End justifys the means in my humble opinion.
Regarding Fairy tales, I am much too cynical to believe in fairy tales, or anything the media parasites try to feed us, and that includes films.
I guess you are against the process but you dont really make it clear as to why?
neilsermk1
13-Jun-13, 12:47
Oh dear, oh dear.
That is just what we do now, and others have to justify their air travel to us. There are a huge bag of rules and regulations relating to air travel, not to mention (dare I say it) human rights.
But, when it suits, all these rules can be ignored and we take the money.
Thats right fill her up and send her on her way
So, if a masked group of people turned up, used force and violence to remove a member of your family. Throw them on a plane and fly off to some foreign land where they would be tortured you'd be quite happy with that?
I asked what your thoughts were on extraordinary rendition.
Personally I dont care that UK airports were used to transfer suspected terrorists to a location where information could be extracted by other means.
You and I dont know what info has been extracted using such methods, we dont know how many atrocities have been averted.
End justifys the means in my humble opinion.
Regarding Fairy tales, I am much too cynical to believe in fairy tales, or anything the media parasites try to feed us, and that includes films.
I guess you are against the process but you dont really make it clear as to why?
So you would have been quite happy if they had just nuked Afghanistan of the face of the planet... A lot of inocent people would have been killed but hey... End Justifies The Means.
So you would have been quite happy if they had just nuked Afghanistan of the face of the planet... A lot of inocent people would have been killed but hey... End Justifies The Means.
There's a bit of a difference there though. lol
Ignore what's happening and take the money, obviously.
And why not? With the current state of the Caithnes economy, firms/shops/businesses going to the wall, why turn away good business?
Maybe an Independent Scotland could legalise torture for foreign nationals & become a world leader in providing torture services to foreign governments....
Caithness could then be setup as a centre of excellence in torture, thanks to the apparent high level of support for such techniques here,
I hope the contents of this thread don't escape from Caithness or else we'll attract even more right-wing nut-cases than we have at present.
But hey, we can make a bob or two. So turn your back, don't ask any awkward questions.
I love the 'jobsworth' philosophy, makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. No, wait a minute, that's the electrodes which have been inserted because someone has accused me of speaking against the government....;)
luskentyre
14-Jun-13, 00:16
So, if a masked group of people turned up, used force and violence to remove a member of your family. Throw them on a plane and fly off to some foreign land where they would be tortured you'd be quite happy with that?
As far as responses go, that's pretty pathetic. If a member of my family were a suspected terrorist then I'd have to question my loyalties to them. Exactly how far do we have to go to give someone we don't even know the benefit of the doubt? People like you seem to extend every sympathy to unknown suspects and absolutely none to victims. Oh, and I know you'll pounce on the word "suspects" - but do we really have to play that game?
secrets in symmetry
14-Jun-13, 00:20
Maybe an Independent Scotland could legalise torture for foreign nationals & become a world leader in providing torture services to foreign governments....
Caithness could then be setup as a centre of excellence in torture, thanks to the apparent high level of support for such techniques here,Now there's a good plan. We could practise on secessionists after they've been annihilated at the ballot box next year.
Kasper King
14-Jun-13, 11:29
Pantsman,
Why is it always right wing nutters who practice torture?
Do not all the communist countries on the planet have secret police forces? Do you think that take into account Uman Rights when questioning a person? Even today gulags are still part of the way of life in Russan, Chinas, et al.
Someone, I forget who, once said that communisum and facism where different side of the same coin.
neilsermk1
14-Jun-13, 12:24
So, if a masked group of people turned up, used force and violence to remove a member of your family. Throw them on a plane and fly off to some foreign land where they would be tortured you'd be quite happy with that?
I have educated my family well enough and trust them well enough to know they would not be involved in any activities of this nature which would put them at risk.
Am I concerned that there are people out there who would choose to harm my family and way of life, you can take that to the bank.
Am I bothered how we find out intel. from suspects. take that to the bank I dont care.
As I said before we dont know how many atrocities have been averted by the use of such means
orkneycadian
14-Jun-13, 14:30
Using the same philosophy then, you could stop any cars that pass by your house, and question them what they are up to, where they are going, who is in the car, etc. If the answers don't meet your ethical criteria, then they have to turn round and go back the way they came. Ideal solution to boy racers!
billmoseley
14-Jun-13, 16:31
My thoughts on this sort of is that the general public don't need to know about this sort of thing. national security should remain secret. I'm pretty sure every national uses all methods known to extract information from suspects. i don't have a problem with this if it,s keeping us safe. So i say fuel them up and wave them good bye.
As far as responses go, that's pretty pathetic. If a member of my family were a suspected terrorist then I'd have to question my loyalties to them.
Pathetic....maybe. Balanced and rational I thought.
I have educated my family well enough and trust them well enough to know they would not be involved in any activities of this nature which would put them at risk.
I would imagine the vast majority of people would say similar things about their families, as would I. But as far as Extraordinary Rendition goes it looks like innocent people where taken with force, whisked off and tortured.
So my question stands, you'd be happy for an innocent member of your family to be removed from their family & home, whisked out of the country without any legal hearing, charges brought or evidence produced, then tortured in some foreign land. And when passing through another country where the authorities could have said "hang on a minute, just what's going on with this person" you'd be quite comfortable in the knowledge that they did nothing whilst others made a few quid?
Using the same philosophy then, you could stop any cars that pass by your house
A tad different.
Aircraft and their 'passengers' need to comply with various laws and regulations before they can fly in the EU, UK and land in the UK. Airport operators also are obliged by law to carry out certain undertakings with regard to aircraft and 'passengers'. And the authorities themselves have a right and obligation to uphold the law and ensure compliance with various laws and regulations.
Anyway, I believe my bank manager is a terrorist so I'm off to kidnap him and torture him until he gives me the combination to the safe and the banks alarm code. Fair?
kasper king...
Why is it always right wing nutters who practice torture?
I didn't say that it was always right-wing nutters who practice torture. I said we may attract more right-wing nutters to Caithness.
Do not all the communist countries on the planet have secret police forces?
I expect that ALL countries of every political flavour have secret police
Do you think that take into account Uman Rights when questioning a person?
What does this mean?
Even today gulags are still part of the way of life in Russan, Chinas, et al.
And you know this how?
Someone, I forget who, once said that communisum and facism where different side of the same coin.
Except that communism started as an attempt to reach equality whereas fascism is based on xenophobia.
Funnily enough even Google has forgotten who said that...
John Little
15-Jun-13, 07:50
Hannah Arendt.
billmoseley
15-Jun-13, 09:33
Another thought about extraordinary rendition is isn't it what we get on some of these talent shows on a saturday night on tv
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