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Where can I learn Gaelic in Caithness? Was Gaelic ever spoken freely in Caithness and if not should it be promoted in our schools?
Personally, I would love to speak it (it appeals to my perverse sense of southern snobbery) but I cannot get any lessons at the Highland College :(
I holidayed in the Western Isles last year and the most ludicrous thing I heard was our Barra friend complaining that incomers could speak it better than she could. There is now a snobbery that if your Gaelic is too good then you are not accepted as local! :lol:
There are some Scots that I have spoken to who have expressed shame at not being able to speak their own language, I think that is a shame and should be rectified
Bill Fernie
01-Mar-05, 12:49
Gaelic classes have been running for several years at the Community Education Centre, Ackergill Street in Wick. They are run by Anna Rogalski and they meet on a Wednesday night at 7.00pm. Sorrry I do not have a phone number but you could try going along and asking for some details. I am sure they would be happy to see some new folk. The community education centre people do not have any more information than that.
Bill Fernie
01-Mar-05, 12:55
I met a man many years ago when I worked for a few weeks on St Kilda. He was Cockney and had lived on Benbecula for several years. He spoke excellent Gaelic with a Cockney accent. Even the native Gaelic speakers from Uist and Lewis who were there were amazed at how good he was. And he never attended any classes but listened to the locals and read a book on the subject. He could not write in the language as he said he would nver get his head round the spelling and he was not going to try. He was quite happy being able to speak it.
I nver got past a few phrases depsite trying as the Gaelic speakers all woudl just use English in my company which was very polite but did not assist my gaining much of the language most of which I have forgotten.
doreenhedgehog
01-Mar-05, 13:16
I can see absolutely no point or benefit to children learning it. I'm all for learning about heritage and history and all that, but I don't see any point in learning another language which is totally useless to them in life. Forget the gaelic and get them back at PE on a regular basis. They hardly get any nowadays!
A definite "no" on this one, I'm afraid -- sorry. Only once in my life have I ever heard a face-to-face conversation in Gaelic on the Scottish mainland, so it seems gratuitous to force everyone to learn it.
I would much prefer that kids were taught more formal grammar and punctuation in English. I know that learning a second language often helps you understand and appreciate your own native language, but there are more useful languages around - especially if you live in the central belt. One might argue the case up north, but I am far from convinced. Ok, it's nice to understand the origins and meanings of place names and the names of hills, but I wouldn't go much further than that.
I have a lot of Irish friends and they were all forced to learn the Irish version at school. They are all rather dismissive of the exercise.
I have also been told by a friend who is a native speaker, and whose opinions I respect, that Gaelic is not actually a very good language. She says it is overly complicated and not very expressive - a bit like Russian! Her husband, who is a keen learner, is much less appreciative than she is. :lol:
Maybe it sounds so nice because it's hard to be expressive.
As far as I know, Gaelic was never spoken by many people in either of the two parts of Scotland I have lived in. I would rather learn something about Scottish P-Celtic or ancient Pictish -- if someone can figure out what the latter actually was. Runes anyone? Or hows about ancient Norse?
Gaelic seems to be dying. Maybe we should be kind and put it out of its misery.
(That last comment was not entirely serious)
~~Tides~~
01-Mar-05, 18:01
is PE not mandatory?
You can pick PE as a standard grade subject, if not you have two periods a week.
NO!!!! French is bad enough! Im never going to go to France and even if I did they look at you funny if you try to order in French in a reseraunt. Why am I ever going to need to say "Your carpet is red", or "You live in John O' Groats". It is the most wasted subject on the timetable and Gaelic would be even worse.
Anyway, I thought that Gaelic was never that strong in Caithness anyway.
Some Highland counciler will probably push a pen and force it on to us anyway [disgust] .
doreenhedgehog
01-Mar-05, 18:25
I was very amused one day when I noticed that a pointless Gaelic version of the news was on and the guy was saying something along the lines of:
"Heedrum, hodrum, Sony Playstation, heedrum ghcheeiuk fghesad, Video Game, heeouch television claredch. etc. etc.
Very funny, I thought. :D
They don't have words for most modern things. Utterly pointless.
....and another thing, why do people need to see the news or other programmes in gaelic? If they didn't speak English it's unlike they'd have bought a television?
Still, I used to love when they did Dangermouse in gaelic! They obviously managed to change most things including danger and mouse into gaelic, but were a bit stumped because he still had DM on his chest. Da-da..great plan, we'll call him......Donnie Murdo!
:D
I dont think gaelic or any other form of langauge should be compulsarly.The english langauge is an international langauge whats the point in specialising in a specific foriegn langauge if your not going to be going to that country on a regular basis.Its different for other countrys because if they learn the english langauge they can use it anywere in the world because its internationl language so its got a lot of benifits for them.
But for me it would be far more better if we had sign langauge compulsarly at schools so we can communicate easily with people in our community with hearing disabiltys.Image how frustrating it must be for a person with hearing disabiltys trying to communicate with a person that doesnt understand sign langauge
2little2late
01-Mar-05, 18:42
is PE not mandatory?
You can pick PE as a standard grade subject, if not you have two periods a week.
Think I'd rather do P.E. than have to suffer two periods in one week. Must be bad enough suffering with one a month. [lol] [lol]
i agree with the sign language as there are many deaf people in general communities.. there are a lot of childrens shows that now have sign language as part of the show.. and one.. oh what is it.. the one with the man looking like a clown? he teaches the children sign language! i love it! only watched it a few times as it clashes with lil boys more important shows *grins* but he is starting to get into it.. and i have been talking with him with both verbal and sign.. working on mum and dad right now *laughs* but as he isnt even two yet and is only starting to speak its a bit much for him but is fun to do and is quality time! as for gaelic i think it should be offered in the school just as frensh and spanish are.. let the child decide if that is the language they want to learn.. dont know about over here but back home you can not graduate high school without a language!
as for PE gasps shock! i cant belive they dont have that every day! so what kinds of organised exercise programs are their?
and what about the sports ?
in primary we had PE every day and in High school.. other than the humuliation it was the fav! class!
was gaelic ever spoken in the north? I though we hailed from the vikings. I feel it should not be allowed to die, but I for one will never learn to speak it.
Lets face it, the caithness dialect is a language on it's own anyway.
©Amethyst
01-Mar-05, 20:21
I don't believe that children should be made to learn Gaelic in schools, but the option of learning it should be there.
I actually love the language. I love hearing people speaking it, and I love listening to the gaelic choirs of scotland.
The Gaels are good people, and let's face it, we've got more chance of speaking to somebody whose first language was gaelic than someone whose first was french in caithness.
George Brims
01-Mar-05, 21:28
If you want to know where Gaelic met Norse in Caithness just look at a map. Placenames change from Norse origin to Gaelic as you go West or South. Watten is a Norse name but it also had the name "Achingale" so it must have been borderline.
Actually Wick was one of the *English-speaking* burghs created by King James VI to encourage trade.
Gaeilic shouldn't be compulsory since it's not a language that will help you much outside of Britain (unless you bump into the Gaels of Nova Scotia!), but I think there should be the option to learn it. THe nearest I came to getting lessons was when "Tormod air Telly" was on in the 1980s. I really wanted to know what the Gaeilic-speaking audience were laughing at so hard!
The Gaels are good people, and let's face it, we've got more chance of speaking to somebody whose first language was gaelic than someone whose first was french in caithness.
But then, is that the point? Wouldn't the education system be failing if it only equipped us to live life within Caithness, and assumed we'd never travel outside it?
Surely the opportunities are greater as a result of learning French than as a result of learning Gaelic?
Why do so many Brits* hold the arrogant view that English is an 'international' language and so we don't need to know any other language? Why is it that so many more students from countries in mainland Europe spend time studying abroad than British students?
In today's global market, it could leave this country weakened, at best; and potentially economically crippled in the long term.
--------------------
*©Amethyst, I'm not suggesting you hold this opinion.
Sorry Drutt but since July 2004 Cornish is also an official language.
I agree that the minority languages should not be compulsary in school but facilities should be there for those who wish to learn and to understand them.They are part of the history of these islands and a knowledge of them can show how the culture,literature and music are related.
Most of us care to some degree about our hereitage and to lose the ability to read the books,poetry and records in their original language would be sad.
Gorthewer da. Kernewomse
At present, 6 out of 21 voters think that Scots-Gaelic should be compulsory in our schools. That's 28%. Ok, it's 28% of a statistically-insignificant number, but these are the views of 6 people, so they shouldn't be dismissed with impunity.
Could I ask how many of the 6 speak Gaelic themselves?
As native speakers?
As learners?
I am genuinely interested in why you think all schoolchildren should be forced to learn Gaelic. Would this be in Scotland as a whole? Or are you talking about Caithness alone?
Tides, will you really never go to France? Not even to see Mickey Mouse? To spend a weekend in Paris with the woman of your dreams? To sit on a beach in the sun on the Med? How's about any other country or place where the majority language is not English? Germany? Italy? Spain? Miami? If so, would you not like to know a little of their language to help you get by?
BTW learning a second foreign language is easier than learning your first.
It's certainly true that English is the #1 international language, even more so than it was a few decades ago, and I think this trend will continue into the forseeable future. But many of us travel abroad with work quite often, and we need to know a little of other languages just to go about everyday life in other countries. It is true that many people speak English, and you can often ask when you are stuck. But when you walk about the streets, go to shops, and eat in restaurants, it sure helps if you have a spattering of the local lingo.
Sign language? Sure, why not? Teach the kids the basics, but I wouldn't spend a lot of time on it, and I certainly wouldn't put it on the same level as English, Maths, French/German. Maybe the same could be done with Gaelic. But I don't think every kid should be forced to learn it for several years.
Maybe the snowball-throwing hooligans of the "Desperate Fishwives" thread (as someone called it yesterday) should be made to take Gaelic lessons as punishment. Yes, let's teach 'em some culture. That should sort 'em out nicely...
I think its important to learn a second language. i also think its important to keep gaelic alive so for me the answer would be not complusory but available.
I think the way we teach languages is weird... if its compulsory we should simply make sure that children initially learn to speak the language right up to standard grade.
Just learning to speak it woulod give a much better vocabulary that "my carpet is red" that tides was talking about. It would mean that at least the kids leaving school could have a proper conversation and it would be of some use to them.
Surely its only if you are doing higher french that you need to get a good grip of the grammar and how much easier is that if you already have a good grasp of the spoken word?
When i did my A level french i had to read Moliere's Malade Imaginaire. I took it with me on an exchange visit and the family i stayed with were amazed. It was like giving someone who was learning english Chaucer to read!!!!
I think gailics a distraction and should be treated like any other charitable thingie. With respect! If anyone has the notion to speak the language theres always somewhere to go to learn it.
I dont feel any less Scottish because of this denial of my so called native tongue. I cant get any enthusism for irt at all.
I would be delighted if any of my daughters wanted to learn it ;)
I'm sure this desire to force our children to learn a new language comes from our jealousy of the Europeans, who all seem to be able to speak English as well as their native language.
I know that until very recently, I felt quite ignorant when speaking to europeans online but after a long discussion on the topic with a woman from Sweden, I was quite surprised to find that they are jealous of our maths and sciences education in high school. I found it strange that they did not even think about the fact that we rarely have good language skills (even with english).
Almost as surprising was the fact that a great deal of the TV they get over there is in english and although its subtitled, most people under the age of about 40 dont need to read the subs and are happy to watch english language programmes. One thing I was not too shocked about is that fact that parents in europe aren't too happy with all the american programming as they feel it is distorting the english twangs of their children and much prefer british tv to the american dross.
I have a feeling that gaelic will soon go the same way as latin, some people will remember it but not force their children to learn it at school. Its all well and good if, as has been suggested, you want to go to classes to learn it but making it a compulsory subject would only be to the detriment of another subject and in todays world its not exactly going to get you ahead in the world. If we had 100% literacy and numeracy then fine, but until we can sort out the basics I think gaelic will never make it into the Scottish curriculum. Apart from the fact that I doubt that there are enough qualified high school teachers available to teach it.
I would loved to of learned Gaelic in school but instead we have to learn languages like French, what's the deal with that? I guarantee most people would prefer and love to learn Gaelic rather than a foreign language. The chances of them going to that same country that they learned are pretty slim but at least with Gaelic you can learn your ancestorial language and celtic connections. I think it'd be a super idea to make Gaelic compulsory in schools.
Having Welsh and Cornish blood in me I have to say that the preservation of native languages is very important. Once it is gone you will never be able to resurrect it. It is an important part of this nations history - a living part at that.
How many people here listen to Scottish folk music sung in Gaelic? Without the ability to sing in Gaelic a great number of songs will be lost. And maybe if you were able to understand and speak it you could join in! The attitude that it is a pointless subject is sad to hear.
[contentious statement]Why bother teaching religion in schools? To me that is a pointless subject. There is no proof of the existance of any god - at least the people who spoke, and still speak, Gaelic actually existed/exist (ducks down below parapet)[/contentious statement]
Maybe Gaelic could be taught in the early stagfes of a childs education, giving them a basic grounding which can be expanded upon when they get to secondary education.
All my relatives in North Wales speak Welsh and I never had the chance to learn it - and I was often able to pick up what they were talking about as they also slipped in 'modern' words. One day I will learn the language if only to be able to follow some of what my cousins are saying!
As French lessons have been raised I will add that in the Breton region of France the first language is not French - in fact they dislike the French intensely. They speak Breton (Ar Brezhoneg) which is a Celtic language like Welsh, Gaelic, etc. In particular, it belongs to the same branch as Welsh, the Brythonic branch. Unlike Welsh or Gaelic, Breton is outlawed by the French government....
I guarantee most people would prefer and love to learn Gaelic rather than a foreign language. The chances of them going to that same country that they learned are pretty slim but at least with Gaelic you can learn your ancestorial language and celtic connections.
You cannot guarantee that most people would prefer and love to learn Gaelic. Trust me. Just have a look at the results of the poll.
I've been to France far more often than I've been to areas in Scotland in which there are Gaelic speakers. In fact, even being in Scotland, I've spoken to far more French people than Gaelic speakers. So I see no grounds whatsover for preferring Gaelic over modern languages.
weeboyagee
04-Mar-05, 18:36
Tha Gaidhlig beo fhathast ann an Gallaibh a chairdean! :D Get used to it! :p Tha fios agamsa!!! Tha mi a fuireach an seo agus ag obair an seo! Tha daoine no dha a bruidhinn Gaidhlig agus tha iad toillichte a bhith bruidhinn anns a Ghaidhlig agus seinn anns a Ghaidhlig an seo cuideachd! Nuair a bha Seumas Rois (Inbhir Uige) aig an Oilthigh bha e aig ionnsachadh Gaidhlig agus bha e a sgriobhadh pios ceol Ghaidhlig cuideachd leis an ainm "An Cuan" agus nuair a bha mi a leughadh na paipearan de bha mi a faicinn? "Mhic a' Ghallaibh!" :o)
Look where the poll is being held Drutt! Caithness! Most people in Caithness may not prefer and love to learn Gaelic, but don't presume you speak for the whole nation - and the poll asks about compulsory teaching of Gaelic or in Gaelic (there is a difference). This is different from preferring to or wanting to learn Gaelic! I know us Gaelic speaking Kaitness Fowk are a niggling minority but our desire to speak the lanugauge or be involved in it is soundly based on a preference or love to do so! I'm just back from Germany and the best way to relate to them? - by speaking their language - which I did - for the first time in the 24 years I've been able to speak it! The results of the poll are no surprise given where it is being undertaken! Should Gaelic be compulsory in schools? No, of course it shouldn't, but the safeguarding of the language for those who were BORN into it, who already speak it, who want to speak it or support it in any way at all should be provided for by the laws of our country - hence the Gaelic Bill going through parliament. This includes the wish to provide education through the medium of Gaelic - maybe not in Caithness (although the activities in Thurso at the croilleagan would lead us to believe different) but certainly anywhere else in the more immersed areas of our land.
I have been to Gaelic medium schools, worked with the kids and witnessed what's going on there - these kids are proving time and time again that they are out-performing their peers.
Gaelic was spoken in Caithness and there are many references to prove this although it was contained to the border areas between Cataibh (Sutherland) and Gallaibh (Caithness). Rheghead asked if Gaelic should be compulsory in the poll but asks should it be "promoted" in our schools in his submission. The promotion idea is better. The greater amount of placenames and songs of our country are Gaelic in origin, the poetry, the people, the clans, our dress etc are all an integrated part of our history and culture - and that identifies our nation apart from the rest. Sure, we don't have to drag the past along with us, but it's great to be able to identify yourself with your homeland in a modern age and no more so than with an ability to hold to the predominant language of our country's forefathers - Gaelic. I'm sorry for those who don't agree - you're entitled to your opinion - but I for one have never found such a sound identification with my country than to be able to speak it's mother tongue. SUAS LEIS A GHAIDHLIG!!!! :D
Most people in Caithness may not prefer and love to learn Gaelic, but don't presume you speak for the whole nation.
Umm, I didn’t. My point, in case you missed it, was that 00Smee shouldn’t presume to speak for ‘most people’.
I guarantee most people would prefer and love to learn Gaelic rather than a foreign language.
The Pepsi Challenge
04-Mar-05, 19:41
I
But for me it would be far more better if we had sign langauge compulsarly at schools so we can communicate easily with people in our community with hearing disabiltys.Image how frustrating it must be for a person with hearing disabiltys trying to communicate with a person that doesnt understand sign langauge
Totally agree with you there, EDDIE. I once had to write a piece on sign language, and was interested to hear (no pun intended) pupils at Donaldsons School of Deaf say: "if people would only learn four or five signs it would improve our self-esteem and make us feel more a part of society."
The body of the piece was on a group of people I met, who devised their own signs for when trying to communicate in noisy clubs. It was a great craic. If anyone can find it in the Herald's archives feel free to look it up. Hopefully it will spur on more people to learn sign language.
As for Gaelic. Well, I'd feel a tad upset if someone told me to forget my heritage and stop using my mother tongue. Saying that, I believe the option of learning gaelic must remain just that, an option.
Hey Weeboyagee, that was a pretty good post. Are you gonna tell us what all the Gaelic stuff says, or do I have to email it to a Gaelic speaker to get a translation?
No, of course it shouldn't, but the safeguarding of the language for those who were BORN into it, who already speak it, who want to speak it or support it in any way at all should be provided for by the laws of our country - hence the Gaelic Bill going through parliament.
Can't disagree with you there. It's the coercion I object to. I wasn't sure what stage the bill is at, so I googled it and found this (http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/business/bills/billsInProgress/gaelicLanguage.htm).
Is there anything you want smuggled into the bill? I know the woman in the pic -- she has power, she translates all the Scottish Parliament's bills into Gaelic. Reasonable rates charged. :D
weeboyagee
04-Mar-05, 22:14
Hey, no probs Dr Szin, there was nothing sinister,...nice to know you know the lady in the picture - so do I!!! Didn't know she was there until I looked up the link! A powerful lady? With Gaelic? Hmmm, next lady Prime Minister methinks???
Translation..."Gaelic's alive in Caithness folks! :D Get used to it! :p I live here and I work here. There's a few folk who speak Gaelic here, who are happy to speak Gaelic and sing in Gaelic also. When James Ross (Wick) was at University (RSAMD to be precise) he studied Gaelic and wrote a piece of Gaelic music entitled "The Ocean" and when I read the papers about it what did I see? - "Son of Caithness!"
I am referring to the fact that he, and I and others (a very good fiddler from John O' Groats!), are all from Caithness and we all speak Gaelic to a level of fluency - some of us trained by native Gaelic speakers in the county, some of us by influence further away from home. I thoroughly agree with you on the coercion, I think it's wrong too. In my experience since speaking Gaelic in the county the level of support I and many others have had has been fantastic. I have tried to encourage them to take up the language for the same reason I did if they want. If they say no thanks, fine,...if they say when, where, how etc, .. I try to point them in the right direction,... usually followed by the Clachan Bar in Stornoway.
Drutt, point taken, thanks for the clarification.
Also thoroughly agree with the post on sign language - I took it up at College as part of the Year of Disabled (that's a wee while ago!!!). Myself and my mate at college arranged for the backing band, scored the music and recorded the theme song for that year (Let's work it out!) and worked with Robin Hall and Fiona MacGregor to do it - we learned to sign the song and carried on from there - it was great - for us and the deaf students! They fairly taught us a thing or two.
Co-dhuibh (anyway)...the bit at the end of my last post "Suas leis a Ghaidhlig!"...for Dr Szin...."Up with the Gaelic!"...we'll get you hooked yet!...
Hey, no probs Dr Szin, there was nothing sinister,...nice to know you know the lady in the picture - so do I!!! Didn't know she was there until I looked up the link! A powerful lady? With Gaelic? Hmmm, next lady Prime Minister methinks???
Yeah, why not? She can certainly talk the talk, so let's boot out Jack McConnell and install our mutual friend as First Minister.
When I get to understand Gaelic, weeboyagee, can I use you as a bit of practice?
And is there any caithness.org rules about posting in Gaelic instead of English, I appreciate it may pose a problem for the moderators...
For anyone interested in learning Gaelic and would like to hear it being spoken, here is a website with interactive learning. It is a BBC site.
Gaelic lessons (http://www.smo.uhi.ac.uk/gaidhlig/ionnsachadh)
But I guess there is no substitute to learning from a fluent speaker.
BTW My wife and I are going to learn it and introduce it as much as possible at home.
Mar sin leat
For anyone interested in learning Gaelic and would like to hear it being spoken, here is a website with interactive learning. It is a BBC site.
Gaelic lessons (http://www.smo.uhi.ac.uk/gaidhlig/ionnsachadh)
It looks like a UHI site to me. The first link on it is to a BBC Scotland site, but most of the others aren't. It looks really useful though.
Anyway, I hope you are going to keep us posted on your progress. As if you wouldn't. :lol:
I have just noticed your "Alba gu bràth". Gawd, you really are going native. If you live where I think you once said you live, then I guess you are far enough west to be going truly native.
But surely you will have to change your username -- "rheg" is the wrong form of Celtic! Well, I can't find it in a Gaelic dictionary.
Colin Manson
05-Mar-05, 19:55
And is there any caithness.org rules about posting in Gaelic instead of English, I appreciate it may pose a problem for the moderators...
In general English is the only language that we accept on the forum, it's not easy to moderate multiple languages and it isn't very helpful to the users that can't speak those languages.
Cheers
Colin
But surely you will have to change your username -- "rheg" is the wrong form of Celtic! Well, I can't find it in a Gaelic dictionary.
I have a reason for that, my Grandferther was a Welshman! ;)
Colin,
Perhaps you should set up a sub-forum for the Gaelic speakers and appoint a Mod with an understanding of the language - you could always include Gaelic swearwords into the auto censor ;)
http://app100828.applicabroadband.net/BumperStickers/walesc5.gif http://app100828.applicabroadband.net/BumperStickers/piran_sml.gif
doreenhedgehog
06-Mar-05, 00:11
Why on earth would anyone want to speak gaelic on here anyway? It's the same as the tv shows, they all speak our proper language anyway. Why bother wasting money making shows in a silly foreign language when the people that watch it speak English anyway.
Utter Nonsense. ;)
Colin Manson
06-Mar-05, 06:09
Colin,
Perhaps you should set up a sub-forum for the Gaelic speakers and appoint a Mod with an understanding of the language - you could always include Gaelic swearwords into the auto censor ;)
I could setup sub-forums for everyone on caithness.org that speaks a different language but it's just not practical. The main language is English and that is the only language that we will accept. It would be a nightmare to do anything else.
Cheers
Colin
Why on earth would anyone want to speak gaelic on here anyway? It's the same as the tv shows, they all speak our proper language anyway. Why bother wasting money making shows in a silly foreign language when the people that watch it speak English anyway.
Utter Nonsense. ;)
Foreign language? Surely English is the foreign language? As an Englishman I would be pretty annoyed if my language was relegated to a sub-culture in my own country in preference to ,say, French?
I accept that it would be a nightmare if Colin set up a forum for every language that is spoken by all Caithness residents, that would possibly include every language from Urdu to Basque. But we are talking about a language which has had specific legislation passed by the Scottish Executive for its protection. Surely a seperate forum would not be toooo much to ask for? Maybe it will be used, maybe not, but I can't see it being used any less than the 'Volunteering Opportunities' forum for example?
Caithness.org is a community based website, we have already established on this thread that Gaelic is alive in the Caithness community...
doreenhedgehog
06-Mar-05, 19:22
But it IS a foreign language now and has been for a considerable time. I can see no benefit whatsoever to anybody learning it other than out of interest due to severe boredom.
Come on Rheghead, why do you want to learn it, and what benefit will you get from it? ;)
weeboyagee
06-Mar-05, 19:36
Choost back fae a nicht oot in Inverness wee ma pals - ahl o' 'em atween e ages o' ate-een and twanty an' ahl o' 'em born wi' e Gaelik. We beez goan' til at bar Hootanannys efter wur geeg wiz done lek an' e main language spoken ere wiz e Gaelik. Last week fan I wiz in at bar I met a cheil fa went ere regular 'cause he thocht id richt cultured. I was richt skunnered fan a foon oot he wiz fae Pooltney! He lek'd ae Gaelik!
Why on earth would anyone want to speak gaelic on here anyway? It's the same as the tv shows, they all speak our proper language anyway. Why bother wasting money making shows in a silly foreign language when the people that watch it speak English anyway.
Utter Nonsense.
..with reference to the opening trock, the "proper language" is?
"Silly" and "Foreign"...and you mean....what?
I never got past a few phrases depsite trying as the Gaelic speakers all would just use English in my company which was very polite but did not assist my gaining much of the language most of which I have forgotten.
The main language is English and that is the only language that we will accept.
Oh dear! OK Colin, I'll conform, no more Gaelic language. Sorry Bill :( us Gaelic speakers got to speak English now, won't help your progress again! How about we provide a translation Colin? P-L-E-A-S-E??????
I don't see any point in learning another language which is totally useless to them in life......forget the gaelic and get them back at PE on a regular basis.
Eh?..what about all those folks employed in a Gaelic role? I lost my job and before I got another one in this county which meant I didn't have to move away, I had the choice of two positions in a company both requiring ability to speak Gaelic - YOU wouldn't have got an interview nah-nah-na-nah-nah :p ...not so useless after all! Did you know that training in a lot of the sports clubs in the west and islands takes place in the medium of Gaelic (I am particularly aware of the Shinty Club in Portree, Skye! C'mon Naoi, hope the club wins the next match!)
I was very amused one day when I noticed that a pointless Gaelic version of the news was on and the guy was saying something along the lines of:..."Heedrum, hodrum, Sony Playstation, heedrum ghcheeiuk fghesad, Video Game, heeouch television claredch. etc. etc......they don't have words for most modern things. Utterly pointless.
OK, Colin, I can't speak Gaelic but look what she's getting away with - I understand everything in the quote but WHAT is a Sony Play Station, Video Game and Television??? In case it has missed someone's attention, most modern languages have ALL adopted the English word for describing things - Gaelic is no different!
Still, I used to love when they did Dangermouse in gaelic!
AHA!!! So you really D-O secretly like the language - I knew it all along! :lol:
And for those mentioning Cornish and Bretonic - fancy coming with me at the end of the month to the Pan Celtic festival in Tralee - the six Celtic nations of Scotland, Ireland, Isle of Man, Wales, Cornwall and Brittany will be gathering for a festival celebrating the celtic culture. This is my third time and I remember a guy Caudor who was band leader of a Cornish Celtic band and they won the groups competition with a rock ballad in their own native language!
Off to learn some more Gaeilc in the mean time - getting bored stiff. Also got to go apologise to all the Gaels I was on the town with last night - apologise for what they think is our short-sightedness in Caithness. The Highland Councillor that is probably going to force the Gaelic on us will probably be forcing something else on the Gaels that suits Caithness but is probably utterly pointless for the rest of Scotland!!! :eyes
Foreign language? Surely English is the foreign language? As an Englishman I would be pretty annoyed if my language was relegated to a sub-culture in my own country in preference to ,say, French?
I don't think gaelic ever was the common language in the east of the county, as it wasn't in Orkney, they would go from norse to scots to english I would think as Orkney did.
In the 1840 Statistical Report for Latheron it says that the burn of East Clyth was the
boundary, with no one on the east of it speaking gaelic and no one to the west speaking
english.
And for those mentioning Cornish and Bretonic - fancy coming with me at the end of the month to the Pan Celtic festival in Tralee - the six Celtic nations of Scotland, Ireland, Isle of Man, Wales, Cornwall and Brittany will be gathering for a festival celebrating the celtic culture.
Do I qualify as a Celt? Here is my reasoning, I was born in the English Lake District which was once part of the Ancient Kingdom of Strathclyde. Also, Cumbria was once part of a celtic kingdom called Rheged (hence my member name). I have always loved celtic artwork and culture, my wife is Scottish and my grandfather was Welsh. Celtic culture once extended right across Northern Europe from Ireland to Russia. Even China has a claim in having some celtic culture when they discovered those tartan clad ice mummies.
More than enough qualification do you think?
Could I join you at the end of the month (providing my other engagements don't get in the way, see the 'Lets meet up thread') as the one and only Rhegedian? :D
Entertaining post weeboyagee but I have to say as a born and bred Caithnesser compared to a GAel I also found it rather illuminating and slightly confusing. :confused You somehow made me feel that we were different races of people. Perhaps that is my personal prejudices coming to the surface although I love hearing the Gaelic being soken and particulry being sung. Your whole post gave me a feeling of them and us. Please accept my apoligies if i have misread your intention.
Rhegheads question poses these questions for me.
I am not a Celt and I guess I am not even sure what a Celt is. Is it like a person who is always a Jew first no matter where their homeland may be and am I a Celt whether I like it or not? Where does this historic connection come from? Did the Celts come from the Picts which I guess would make you all picts or where did the Picts come from?
What am I for goodness sake? How far do we follow this sort of trivia back? How about Africa millions of years ago? We are all African whether you like it or not. Colin can we have a swaheli forum PLEASE.
Whats wrong with being just Scottish or English. Flag flying also worries me. How do you guys allay my fears of a nationalistic revolution to take over Scotland by the Gaels?
Caithness.org is just a beginning, where next?
Well done Gleeber,
you have put into words my feelings on this theme to a tee.
I have nothing against Gaels or the beautiful tongue, I only wish I could understand it.
I like you Gleeber am a true Born Caithnessian of true born Caithnessian stock and I was never taught Gaelic at school, I personally was never given the option of learning any other language when I attended school in the early to mid 50's. I wish that I had been, if I was given the choice it would have been German, Italian or Spanish, as a former Merchant Seaman any of those 3 languages would have helped me a great deal.
The question Rheghead origionally put forward was " Should Scots - Gaelic be compulsary in our Schools?" I say NO, outside of 200 or 300 sq miles of the Highlands and the Islands, the Universial Language is English, this is the tongue that all of the National Rescue services recognise and use, including Air Traffic control, Coastguard etc.
I know that Gaelic is spoken by more of our American cousins on the other side of the pond than there are fluent speakers on Auld Scotia shore, but to make it compulsory at school...well my vote is still NO!!
I am involved with colleages from Wales who have stronger laws on their mother tongue than we have in Scotland, i.e. all forms and documents etc. have to be by-lingual. My contacts in South Wales think their brothers in the North are very insular and they have no time for them.
I would not like to see this happen to my homeland
Isn't the caithness dialect a language all its own? THAT is our native language - I would say.
My contacts in South Wales think their brothers in the North are very insular and they have no time for them.
I would not like to see this happen to my homeland
Hmmm, having close relatives in the "insular" North Wales I won't go into what their views of the south are..... [disgust]
http://hometown.aol.co.uk/MadPict/images/flaminmad.gifMadPict
http://hometown.aol.co.uk/MadPict/images/gruff_ext.gif
My contacts in South Wales think their brothers in the North are very insular and they have no time for them. I would not like to see this happen to my homeland
It has already happened, just a neutral-value observation here, Caithnessians don't need a language barrier to create divisions between themselves as the Great Thurso/Wick Schism clearly demonstrates. :roll:
[
It has already happened, just a neutral-value observation here, Caithnessians don't need a language barrier to create divisions between themselves as the Great Thurso/Wick Schism clearly demonstrates. :roll:[/quote]
Ach get away man!!!! there are no bigger "Schisms" Your phrase not mine,than the Edinburgh / Glasgow, East / West, North / South, Vinegar / Sauce ones. The Scots are famous for poking fun at ourselves.
And how can you call yourself "Neutral" when your Avitar is the Saltire????
Point taken, I may be slightly naive on this matter, but can we be sure that the North/South Welsh language fuelled rivalry is more vociferous than the divisions that you have mentioned or between the growing population of Gaelic speakers and non-gaelic speakers? I don't think so, as long as we all speak English, i can't see a problem.
To speak Gaelic is purely a matter of identity, choice and courtesy. When I was on the Western Isles for a week, I was saying 'Tapadh leat' or even the polite version(lebh) to people in shops etc. They instantly recognised that I was trying to 'make an effort' and warmly received my efforts.
I once read a novel by a chap called James Friel, in it he described how the British Government tried to wipe out Irish identity, placenames etc and even forced people to anglocise there names. I look around Caithness and see lots of Gaelic derived place names but no Gaelic speakers. Again it may be naive of me again, but the anglocisation of Caithness seems to be complete but with the complicity of the Gaelic speakers ancestors...East-county Caithnessians exempt of course, they can revel in their dialect without the smallest trace of angst.
To be honest i voted no to the vote as well, again choice is the operative word here, I wouldn't want the Scottish Executive to adopt similiar brutal counter-measures to the English model...
weeboyagee
07-Mar-05, 16:31
Nae probs Gleeber,...didn't mean to make it look as though it was a them and us situation. :o) I know the original post was about compulsory Gaelic in schools but some of the posts have been having a dig at the Gaels for having a "silly", "foreign" language and making it out to be that the whole concept of speaking, learning and sharing an interest in the language is a waste of time. I can see totally that you and others don't share this opinion but if I were a Gael I would think that the some of the Caithnessians amongst us DO promote a them and us picture?! Hope this clarifies my intention with my post a bit better. :cool:
I love hearing the Gaelic being soken and particulry being sung. You're not the only one!
The Scots, Irish, Welsh etc all decend from the Celtic race - a great story in the history books if you ever have the time to read it - but I have never yet found out the origin of the race - anyone got any info?
"Whats wrong with being just Scottish or English?" - nothing wrong with it at all - but you can be a Catihnessian or a Weeker or a Weejie or a Gael and still make up the colourful culture that makes us all Scots - my opinion - in as much as you can be a Scouse, Cockney, Liverpudlian and still make up the culture that makes our neighbours English.
A note on the Welsh, Golach - I agree - some of us are aware of the same situation - but are very much (again in my opinion) different. In Wales they will not give way to the English language if you don't understand English - but as Bill Fernie said - the Gaels always do!
I think the enthusiasm ye have for the Gaelic will always be around to some degree in the soul of us Scots.
The Gaelic will never die as long as there are Gaels :D
I was watching a Chinese news programme recently (in English) :eek: and they were reporting on the Chinese governments initiative for all Chinese children to learn English at school. 300 million of them.
I find that idea amazing and see it as an attempt to reach out over the cultural barriers we create as nations and discover that basically we have more in common with eachother than there are differences.
The Scots, Irish, Welsh etc all decend from the Celtic race - a great story in the history books if you ever have the time to read it - but I have never yet found out the origin of the race - anyone got any info?
http://www.celticcorner.com/origins.html
Not sure I would want Gaelic to be compulsory but it would be nice to have as an option in schools if there was a demand for it FROM THE PUPILs THEMSELVES! (Not from people who think kids should learn this as well as all the other things they have to do)
There is a voluntary sign language class in Wick High for staff and pupils held on a Tuesday night at 3.40. Its a beginners class so quite easy to follow I hear.
The symbols for sign language can be picked up in in 5 minutes. Using them to communicate takes more time.
weeboyagee
10-Mar-05, 18:45
Not sure I would want Gaelic to be compulsory but it would be nice to have as an option in schools if there was a demand for it FROM THE PUPILs THEMSELVES! (Not from people who think kids should learn this as well as all the other things they have to do)
Nice to have as an option if there was a demand from the pupils? Not from people who think kids should learn this as well...etc? Eh, in most Gaelic medium schools it's the parents who decide what's best for their kids, sometimes as early as nursery before they begin Primary One! This is usually done at the age before the kids know whether to "demand" it or not. I re-iterate, these kids are frequently outperforming their peers - I know which teaching medium I would choose.
I understand the point but surely this is for those in Higher education. So the pupils in some schools DO want to do Gaelic - but can't - a) it's not in their curriculum or b) they don't have the teachers. I don't think kids SHOULD learn Gaelic - but give kids the choice and they won't do half of the things in school they SHOULD do never mind Gaelic!
I know one lad who has been learning Gaelic, currently studying it at Sabhal Mor Ostaig (the Gaelic College in Skye) - but he didn't have the CHOICE to attend Gaelic medium because it came to his area too late. :~( It's OK to choose to do Gaelic but unfortunately not all the provisions are in place to satisfy the choice - no matter where in Scotland - we look to the Gaelic Bill to sort that out - and put the language back on a plain that has been lost out to much lesser subject matters in today's society!
Thanks MadPict for the link - very useful - especially the bit about the split of language descendancy!! :o) Have any of you looked up the Gaelic links on caithness.org? They're great!
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