View Full Version : What is British now?
highlander
14-Jan-07, 01:33
We are such a multi culture nation, when we say we are british, what do we mean?
It means we can practise the black arts without being burned at the stake. :)
The Christian church no longer has hegemony and we can believe what we want without castigation by the state. I love the Christian church but I don't do its thing and they don't call me a heretic for it.
Not so keen on some of the imported religions but I tolerate them, same as they tolerate me. Let the girl wear her crucifix, let them wear their headscarfs and their veils, but let me wear my mother earth symbols and I'll live happily amongst you all.
We are all god's children and she loves our diversity. Raise your glasses to Mother Earth. :D
Jeemag_USA
14-Jan-07, 02:39
Not for any political reasons, and not wishing to kick up a storm, but never once in my life have I ever considered myself as British nor referred to myself as British. I have always thought of the phrases "Great Britain" and "United Kingdom" as misnomers. The only thing I can think of that is actually british is the Union Jack, and maybe the Olympics team. The term "Britain" or "British" really means nothing to me. I am Scottish, born in Scotland and that is my nation ;)
Another Oh No Moment.... I thought the question was asking what we thought multicultural meant in today's Britain. Whoopsadaisy.
I made my fame and fortune, such that it is, in England and I am eternally grateful for the opportunity to move down there without restriction and to come back when I wanted to. I am a child of the universe and I think Gordon Brown looks sexy when he tells us how important it is to be British. No, not really. ;)
I'm with Jeemag on his one - I have always thought of myself as a Scot. I do get really upset at the nationality blunders and nationalistic ravings whenever sporting events take place and the term "British" is used innapropriately by pundits etc. It does nothing to promote unity on this island we inhabit.
In the olden days I was a British subject, but in 1977 that term was changed to Commonwealth Citizen. Yet there is no doubt from my family name that my country of ancestral origin is Scotland.
british is want the english use then scots do well in something. if its a scot the they are british but if they from england they english.
Well british means nothing to me i dont see myself as being british im scottish and proud of it and the quicker scotland gets full independence the better
Not for any political reasons, and not wishing to kick up a storm, but never once in my life have I ever considered myself as British nor referred to myself as British. I have always thought of the phrases "Great Britain" and "United Kingdom" as misnomers. The only thing I can think of that is actually british is the Union Jack, and maybe the Olympics team. The term "Britain" or "British" really means nothing to me. I am Scottish, born in Scotland and that is my nation ;)
Hear, hear, Jeemag_USA!
When asked what my nationality is, I always say Scottish not British:D
I suppose all of us who live in the British Isles are British.
Such a shame that the description has been highjacked to equate to the inhabitants of just one part of it.
When people ask me here where i am from i say the North of Scotland (and give them more details if they ask)
When I was in Barbados, many people asked if we were British/from Britian and then they asked from from in Britian.
I have no problem saying I am British nor do I mind saying I am Scottish.
I am happy.
percy toboggan
14-Jan-07, 16:03
I suppose all of us who live in the British Isles are British.
Such a shame that the description has been highjacked to equate to the inhabitants of just one part of it.
Your first point is absolutely correct.
I don't understand the second point.
If you mean what I think you mean that British means
English?? I don't think it does. We can all retain our more parochial naitonality
I'll say
I'm English, you'll say you're Scottish and that's entirely fine. As we were both born here on these islands though we are both British. First or second, it doesn't matter, it's down to personal choice.
Much of the current drive for independence for Scotland is borne out of the incompetence of Blair, and your own First Minister McConnell, and their cronies. They are making a hash of things and independence seems a natural, if drastic exit strategy.
Buttercup
14-Jan-07, 16:32
I've never considered myself "British". I was born and bred in Scotland so that makes me Scottish.
It is something that has always annoyed me about forms you have to fill in you never get the option of being Scottish, you have to be "British" or "UK citizen". We should be proud of our country but are not allowed to acknowledge it exists. We have different laws, school system and history etc from England and Wales - and Northern Ireland if we're talking about the "UK" - so why should we be bundled in with them?
scots have always looked for independance from the uk, the scotish people have a strong desire to be independent. we have a lot of our own powers and delolution was the frist step to independance.
Jeemag_USA
14-Jan-07, 16:59
Your first point is absolutely correct.
I don't understand the second point.
If you mean what I think you mean that British means
English?? I don't think it does. We can all retain our more parochial naitonality
I'll say
I'm English, you'll say you're Scottish and that's entirely fine. As we were both born here on these islands though we are both British. First or second, it doesn't matter, it's down to personal choice.
Much of the current drive for independence for Scotland is borne out of the incompetence of Blair, and your own First Minister McConnell, and their cronies. They are making a hash of things and independence seems a natural, if drastic exit strategy.
I think what is meant Percy is that the english as a people are the only large group of people in the UK who get passionate about flying the Union Jack. I remember as a boy when the Queen and Queen Mother used to come up to the Castle of Mey, in small villages like Dunnet and so on when people were out on the street to see the cars go buy, someone would be out their handing out little Union Jacks, no idea who these people were but I guess the effect was to make the Royals feel that Britain is truly united wherever they go. Apart from one particular place in Scotland which I won't go into, you don't see an awful lot of people running around waving Union Jacks, nor in Wales or Ireland. The flag itself is dominated by England, even before the addition of the Northern Ireland Flag, the George Cross is always at the fore just so people would know who is in charge, and there seems to be no representation of Wales on their, I guess because its a county of England?
And also there is a differce between the term British Isles and Great Britain, the former is a term for the islands, and you don't have to be british to live in the British Isles as people from the Republic of Ireland can tell you, Eire is a part of the British Isles, the latter is the name given for the Union of ENG, SCO, WAL, NI aka United Kingdom.
I am Scottish born, Scottish bred andproud to be British. I am proud to wave the Union Flag.
I also thought that Great Britain referred to the large land mass that contained the majority of England, Scotland and Wales, hence it is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
Jeemag_USA
14-Jan-07, 17:08
I also thought that Great Britain referred to the large land mass that contained the majority of England, Scotland and Wales, hence it is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
Correct, I believe that is the appropriate term now, as it says on my Passport. My point was that The British Isles is not a country.
Also notice the British or Royal Navy's White Ensign contains two St.George crosses on its 'jack' ;)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9c/Naval_Ensign_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg/216px-Naval_Ensign_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg.png
percy toboggan
14-Jan-07, 17:49
I've never considered myself "British". I was born and bred in Scotland so that makes me Scottish.
It is something that has always annoyed me about forms you have to fill in you never get the option of being Scottish, you have to be "British" or "UK citizen". We should be proud of our country but are not allowed to acknowledge it exists. We have different laws, school system and history etc from England and Wales - and Northern Ireland if we're talking about the "UK" - so why should we be bundled in with them?
But buttercup- I hear this many times from English people. Down here there is often no such option as 'English' on forms. If there isn't then I tend to write it in anyway. I think there is a huge acknowledgement of Scotland's existence within the United Kingdom as it's an incredible asset to the whole, while still retaining the greatest proportion of real patriots in my opinion.
The UK is like the Beatles, if we go solo we'll never reach the same heights again.
England is Paul - a bit up itself but full of invention and melodic talent, good looking in parts but poor fashion sense.
Scotland like Lennon - raw and rough at it's edges but wry and acerbic in its' head when stirred. Fiercely chippy about all kinds of things - especially authority.
Wales (and I agree about the Union Flag Jeemag - it needs a Dragon in one quadrant) would be George Harrison. Under-rated yet essential to the band, often coming up with great surprises when least expected.
That leaves N.I. being Ringo - I admit any similarities escape me...OH! the drums...I seem to recall many of the Northern Irish like drummer boys!!:roll:
Best I can do for now.;)
I would have said that complaining while queue'ing was supremely british...
I have been to numerous places and nowhere i have been competes with that... :D
Wth regards to anything else, sadly i have no idea, i have no notion of nationality, it only causes division in most cases so i regard my self as just a human being, a child of nature so to speak, with a more philisophical sense of belonging as apposed to being connected with a specific land mass, with non-definable attitudes....
If that was the case i would class myself as a Kiwi. :cool: (If Only....)
I have read many explanations to what it is to be scottish, and admittedly its very honourable but sadly i cant help feel its a notion of times past...
(please go easy on me... )
Your first point is absolutely correct.
I don't understand the second point.
If you mean what I think you mean that British means
English?? I don't think it does. We can all retain our more parochial naitonality
That wasn't what I meant, PT.............the British Isles are not confined to the inhabitants of the UK...........but in the eyes of the world, British means a citizen of the UK..................just as American indicates a citizen of the USA, when it is actually an inhabitant of the Americas...which is a much larger area.
So both countries have hijacked the description which should rightly be applied to a larger area..in the case of the UK.........including the Isle of Man, the Channel Islands and Eire.
I have missed something here ... put me right if i`m wrong ( I know you will) but didn´t the scottish make this union possible by arranging it so nicely the the English couldn`t refuse which means if I´m Scottish >I´m obviously British The most of the spokenout scots that I have met allways assume the the english put us down Ok we lost at culloden but we made the union possible because we we so clever.... and then we went on to run the Empire for them which makes me even prouder that we had such forseeing leaders I´m not so sure it applies to today and also all that bad taste about ransaking other countries has stuck the name of the English , But who did a lot of the fight The Scottish regiments.. so what if some reporter of a sports event gets it all wrong Wére all scottish and the World loves us for it
changilass
15-Jan-07, 03:41
British to me means being born in an RAF hospital in Singapore to an English mother and a Scottish father. I am a Cameron by birth and very proud of it.
I am British by birth but now I have finally made my way back to Caithness there is no way I am going anywhere else - well at least till the summer holidays come round:lol:
Percy just proved the point I was going to make!!
Scots call themselves Scottish, and English see themselves as British. I was born in Scotland, with both parents being Scottish, but I am not British and never will be.
I would not be proud to say I was British, Britshness means nothing to me. I am Scottish...... get the idea?
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/26/26_17_4.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZS) I'm Scottish through & through.
http://www.smileycentral.com/sig.jsp?pc=ZSzeb098&pp=ZS (http://smiley.smileycentral.com/download/index.jhtml?partner=ZSzeb098_ZS&utm_id=7926)
Jeemag_USA
15-Jan-07, 15:51
I have missed something here ... put me right if i`m wrong ( I know you will) but didn´t the scottish make this union possible by arranging it so nicely the the English couldn`t refuse which means if I´m Scottish >I´m obviously British The most of the spokenout scots that I have met allways assume the the english put us down Ok we lost at culloden but we made the union possible because we we so clever.... and then we went on to run the Empire for them which makes me even prouder that we had such forseeing leaders I´m not so sure it applies to today and also all that bad taste about ransaking other countries has stuck the name of the English , But who did a lot of the fight The Scottish regiments.. so what if some reporter of a sports event gets it all wrong Wére all scottish and the World loves us for it
I would like for you to elaborate on your paragraph a little because its difficult to see what your trying to say.
In one part are you saying that you are proud that Scotland ran the Empire for "them" who are you referring to as "them", in one part it looks like your saying English shouldn't get the blame for something then you refer to them as "them". And why would anyone be proud of running an empire, the English, oops sorry I meant British Empire is nothing to be proud of, whats to be pround of, Queen Victoria the self proclaimed flower of India who never visited India, a country under british rule where people were battered and murdered on a regular basis, forced to buy british products, forced to sell cloth to british factories and made to buy clothes back from the same factories they didn't want to wear. Yeah great to have an invading empire taking over third world countries so we can strip them of minerals, crops and stuff and give them pretty much nothing for it and then tell them to give everything we gave them back as taxes and rent. Lot to be proud of there. At least after two thousand years people say about the invading Romans "well they gave us roads and good drainage". What did the British leave India, Tea? or a bunch of headstones.
I think the question was what does British mean now? Not whose fault the Union was?
Ok Jeemag I lost the thread of things a little what I meant was that it was scottish Characters that realised that ok the "empire " is there so we will go and make a bob or two by handling the affairs... I`m not going to argue the case whether it was right or not , the Scots where always the ones to make one thing or another work to be appreciated to reep the benefit get my jistand that is what im proud of .
Kaishowing
16-Jan-07, 02:38
If you look at most country's history, I think you'll find something that you don't like lurking there.
Before anyone carries on blasting the British Empire, lets look to see what the Americans did to the indigenous people of that country they decided to settle in and claim as their own.
Or maybe the slaughter within South America when another non-British country decided to stretch their national legs, or the French and the Belgians in Africa etc etc... I could go on but I won't.
As for leaving nothing worthwhile behind these countries that used to be marked red on the map (incidentaly mainly due to the Royal Navy along with the backbone of the British Army which happened to be the Scottish Infantry Regiments), I suppose they may have been far happier without British involvement, but we only left behind the benefits of democracy, the industrial revolution and education.
I'm not trying to say the days of The Empire were perfect, far from it, but it wasn't all as one-sided as some would have you believe, or most of the countries wouldn't now be voluntary members of the Commonwealth.
British does not mean English, anymore than it does Scottish.
If you look at the British Union flag, you'll see that it's made up from the cross of StGeorge, StAndrew and StPatrick.
British means just that....a combination of all the nations, but each retains a pride and history seperate from one another.
So there is a clear line between the nations within Britain itself, but IMO a United Kingdom to all outside countries.
Of course Scotland's own bid for Empire failed, but we did play a major role in the British Empire.
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.