View Full Version : Snowballs
When i was younger i had some great snowball fights,but we never threw snowballs at vehicles and never threw them at any person not involved in the snowball fight.(not deliberately,we may have hit the odd person accidently)
Today i watched 10 teenagers in a school field throwing snowballs at vehicles passing on the main road and at any person who came within range.
These practices are very dangerous and i think schools and parents and the police are failing to control this attitude that children have of total disrespect for other peoples right to go about the street without being assaulted with snowballs,and running the risk of a vehicle accident.
I feel like confronting the culprits but i know the outcome would not be nice. ( i have a very short fuse)
Children today can talk to you any way they like and they know you can do nothing about it.
What are the children of today going to turn into tomorrow?.....its a depressing thought.
Seabird, sadly what you say is true. I have relatives who live near Wick High School and have seen a gang deliberately targeting passersby, cars and motorbike/scooters. I believe that if you complain to the school they will offer you a video camera so you can tape the offenders! However, that is just putting pressure on the 'victims' of this and I don't think there is any follow up action taken.
Did anyone see that 'Driving Mum and Dad Mad' programme on ITV last night? It was a right eye-opener as it just proved that it's the parent's behaviour that 'makes' the kids the way they are. Maybe it's time that the school/PTA or whatever got the parents in for education in how to respect others!
I myself was driving past the high school yesterday at lunch time and got about ten snowbals thrown at my car windows, i thought they were going to smash through they were thrown that hard. I was furious, i really felt like going into the school and complaining but i know absolutley nothing would have been done about it!! [mad]
Are the children not supposed to be supervised whilst on School Premises ?
worth looking into .
The Staff would like to know what the youngsters are getting up to.
cullbucket
24-Feb-05, 17:45
Never mind passing motorists, teachers cars were being hit by snowballs when I was at thurso high school 20 years ago. I remember one of my classmates hit Mr Maine the maths teachers car, (outside of school mind you...) he got spotted and the next day was leathered with the tweeger....
...So i don't think its a new phenomena, maybe they are now just throwing them harder, with more intent to cause damage rather than before....
Or it could be they are fed up with their 37p school lunches - can you believe that Jamie Oliver programme?
Aww, come on all you Victor Meldrews!! Kids will be kids, if you get hit throw one back and put on a smile!
~~Tides~~
24-Feb-05, 21:59
Anyone driving past Wick High at lunchtimes must have a death wish anyway. [lol]
Last year Taxi driver crashed after his car was pelted with snowballs.
13 year old boy taken to hospital after being kicked about the head when someone took exception to being pelted with snowballs Daily Mirror page15 today (24/2/05)
I'm sure there are lots of violent reactions to this sort of so called fun that we dont hear about.
Assault is assault and is no fun when you are on the receiving end.
The idea of throwing snowballs back sounds o.k until you consider the possible consequences.
1. You miss and hit someone who comes over and kicks you around the head.
2. You hit your target in the face and he complains to his parents. he swears he was not throwing snowballs and you end up in court charged with assault.
3. The snowball hits a child in the eye and he goes blind, you end up charged with assault
and end up paying compensation.
4. Large group of lads dont like a taste of their own medicine and come over and give you a good kicking and put you in the hospital, then you are charged with assault for starting the problem.
5. You get involved throwing snowball back at lads (or girls) across a main road, car is hit
car crashes mowing down pedestians, worst outcome, people are killed.
What you seem to have forgotten Rheghead is the fact that Adults are held accountable for their actions and should know better. (Every action has a consequence) adults need to consider what the cosequences are before they take the action It' about time children learned that fact as well.
2little2late
24-Feb-05, 22:51
I agree 100% with seabird.
adults need to consider what the cosequences are before they take the action It' about time children learned that fact as well.
Children dont think about the consequences of their actions cos they are children. When they begin to think about the consequences of their actions they are on their way to being adults and this isnt likely to be until their mid teens at the earliest.
This conversation is about snowball fights right? They arent battering each other with sticks or throwing around petrol bombs or pulling guns on each other - we are talking about snowballs right?
Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill
2little2late
24-Feb-05, 23:30
This conversation is about snowball fights right? They arent battering each other with sticks or throwing around petrol bombs or pulling guns on each other - we are talking about snowballs right?
Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill
Which takes us back to what seabird said in his previous post.
.
The Staff would like to know what the youngsters are getting up to.
OH MY GOD!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
They are (whispers in a horrified fashion)
Throwing snowballs
:eek:
Last winter a snowball hit my windscreen as I was driving past the school. I could not have believed the impact one snowball could make. It almost put me off the road....and considering the way all the kids walk out in front of the traffic, it could have ended up in someone being injured. I telephoned the school once I arrived at work and the depute rector was most sympathetic and spoke to the kids involved.
A similar incident happened to my mother and the kids were made to write her an apology.
It is worth complaining.
Its still snowballs
If it was a brick you would have gone off the road.
Kids throw snowballs you must take care where they are playing for that reason. Evelyn probably did and thats how she didnt go off the road
Can I just say Squidge , that I like you would have scoffed, and did, until it actually happened to myself. I had no idea how frightening a sudden thump and a blanked out windscreen could have been. I reckon if I had been an elderly person with a heart condition I may have taken ill after the shock. In fact I felt physically sick with fright and my heart rate must have doubled.
It may 'only ' be snowballs but the kids need to be aware of the consequences of their actions......MY KIDS HAVE BEEN WARNED!
Last winter I was driving down George Street towards High Street and there were a group of boys standing at the top of Kirk Hill. They threw an ICY snowball at my car and it hit the roof! I was VERY lucky there were no cars in my vacinity as I would definetly of crashed as I lost control momentarily!! I didnt know what had happened at first but when I got out to investigate the boys ran away.
I was left with a huge dent in the roof of my car!!! [mad]
Im all for a good snowball fight but in the right place at the right time!! [mad]
Squidge, you tend to think that it is nice little children throwing nice little soft snowballs at eachother right...? wrong they are teenagers and old enough to know that throwing hard icy snowballs at passing motorists could have bad consequences, as seabird has listed!!
Its bad enough trying to dodge them when passing the school anyways never mind trying to dodge ice balls aswel! [mad]
ok they are just snowballs right? so tell me does that make it ok to pelt a woman 7 1/2 months pregnant?
and before you start saying no one ever did that like was said last time.. yes it did.. because it was me that was pelted.. was down at safeways.. and was a group of teenage boys throwing them at any passerby .. didnt matter if they were old or young!
and yes ive been in the taxi's with MY children.. who are babies.. and have had snowballs thrown.. and nearly driven off the road at the harbour.. so you tell me what is it going to take.. someone getting hurt or killed.. luckily i dint fall when i was pelted at safeways but it was a close thing.. so yes i think something should be done.. there are lines and they have been well crossed.. so something has to be done.. before there is more than just cars swerving and people trying to advoid children.. come on .. whats it come to when people advoid children in the fear they are going to be hurt? one night my husband and i were down the town a couple years back.. coming back from dinner ... and there was a old mannie who was obviously worse for drink.. a group of about 10 16ish boys were litterly attacking him with hard packed snow balls and shouting abuse chasing him.. he was doing his level best to get away from them.. and i can attest he never did or said anything to them.. i shouted at the boys.. and told them to leave off but what could we do a heavily pregnant woman and one man? got out the fone to call the police but of course as soon as they saw that they were off... fto torment someone else
ok ok ok I stand corrected
I still cant get worked up about snowballs though folks sorry
My opinion of all the posts so far argue against the reckless and irresponsible youths who don't give a damn about other people rather than the arguements against snowballing in general.
Snowballing is great fun and I used to look forward to getting anyone off guard. Quite frankly snowballing is not the problem. Yes, i agree ice throwing and snowballs with stones in them is terrible, but the people that do this would have no hessitation in throwing a brick either.
Apocalypse
26-Feb-05, 14:41
Im in the high skool and there is cameras watchin at lunch times and the rector does pull ppl in if they are caught so the skool is tryin but it is only snow [lol]
Mr P Cannop
26-Feb-05, 15:18
the snow might have stones in them you just never know
Oh me, oh my…
We’ve got the potential for snowballs to give old folks heart-attacks; the risk that those hit might react violently; the risk that you may hit somebody who complains to their parents (or, presumably, somebody else in authority); the risk of snowballs causing blindness; the risk that a snowball could send a car off the road; the risk that you might throw back a retaliatory snowball and send a car off the road yourself; the risk that you might (heaven forbid) fall over after being hit by a snowball and the chance that there might be stones in the snow.
Guess what, folks; there is nothing – NOTHING – in this world that doesn’t come with risk; but snowballs aren’t a new idea. We’ve ALL thrown them and we’ve ALL been hit by them.
As adults we know that, although it might be a lot of fun, throwing snowballs at cars isn’t a great idea… but we didn’t think that way when we were kids and kids don’t think that way now.
If they are truly doing something dangerous then it’s your responsibility as an adult to stop them. If you don’t feel able to stop them yourself then it is your responsibility to tell their parents/their school/the police so that they can stop them. If you don’t want to live up to that responsibility then don’t, but in doing nothing you take on some of the responsibility for whatever may come… including what they may become as adults.
And seriously, were we all so perfect as kids? :roll:
so you are saying that we as children also threw snowballs at pregnant women old people and cars?
I can honestly say No i never did.. and neither did my brothers or sister and their are 7 of Us!
we were taught respect to our elders.. and to listen to the rules.. yeah we bent them but never anything dangers or mean..
how is it kids just being kids?
and i think this has gone beyond snowballs.. was snowballs ever the real issue or was it the hooligans doing things deliberatly.. to cause grief and/or damage?
I have two children and i can tell you now.. that they will have more respect for themselves and others than to endager lives and health.. its called raising children properly.
so you are saying that we as children also threw snowballs at pregnant women old people and cars?
No, I didn’t say that at all.
What I am saying is that we, as children, didn’t have an adult’s understanding of the world… and that children shouldn’t have an adult’s understanding of the world. Why not leave that until they are adults, eh?
was snowballs ever the real issue or was it the hooligans doing things deliberatly.. to cause grief and/or damage?
Well, if snowballs aren’t the issue here then we should be discussing the real issue rather than using the actions of a few children to demonise them all.
It’s very easy to accuse ‘the youth of today’ of having no ‘respect for their elders’, but that just saves having to admit to the other possibility – respect isn’t a thing to be given away, it has to be earned… and maybe we, the ‘elders’ for today’s children, don’t actually deserve it? I certainly don’t recall calls for my play to be restricted because of a few ‘bad eggs’; my ‘elders’ were a lot more fair-minded than that!
Oh, and I’d just like to add that I think a lot of people confuse ‘respect’ with ‘fear’. Where respect cannot be taught, fear of punishment most certainly can.
ok here you go .. these so called children are mostly older.. say 12 and up.. think about it the high school? so you are telling me they dont understand? come on get real.. i understood right from wrong at an early age.. and before that my mother kept us under close watch and didnt let us wander all over creation..
and as for the fear and respect.. hmmm i would say its a combo of both.. children are suppose to respect and fear their parents... and im not talking about beating or hitting them a prime example.. well at least how im going to punish my children as we were punished..
as a child ... you respect your parents because they are your role models.. they are who you look up to and trust.. who they look to to emulate.. and they know that you as a parent love them and cherish them and will always be there to watch over them.. the fear is that they also know that when they have misbehaved that they will get into trouble.. be it a stern lecture to a all out grounding where everything is revoked.. no tv no friends no phones no games.. just 4 walls to look at for a while.
and then there is the disapointment.. i had rather been locked in my room without food or water.. (expression by the way) than have my dad look at me with the disapointment in his eyes .. which i will admit happened a time or two in my teenage years..
that was the worse when he talked to me sit me down and told me that i had betrayed his trust.. and that it hurt him.. thats the respect and fear im talking about.. but im guess those kind of morals are not the norm these days but at least in my household they are...
Highland Laddie
27-Feb-05, 10:53
Well said Brandy, i couldn't agree more.
You got it in one, Brandy!
Ok well we had better take all these immoral, out of control youths who are intent on wrecking society as we know it through their reckless use of snowballs and LOCK THEM AND THROW AWAY THE KEY!!!!!
Children and young teenagers do NOT see the wider issues around their behaviour. They know that if they do something they will get punished for it but then its so EXCITING!!! that maybe they wont get caught. Or their mates think its a good idea and they get roped in hoping they wont get caught or they think oh what the hell and do it any way.
Of course the children throwing snowballs at you or at cars or at old people or at buses should betold off. If they were mine they would be. But lets not get this out of proportion its snowballs. Kids have thrown snowballs at cars, school buses, since i was a child. Maybe out of badness maybe cos they want to see if they are good enough to hit them.
In additon im not sure what all this about being too scared to say if you see some kids behaving badly is about. Sure youmight get a mouthful back but come on they are kids, its generally all bravado and a BIG voice does the trick usually.
The media and some of us here are intent on demonising kids so that people seem to be scared of them. Its madness. See a fight between kids - step in and stop it. See them behaving badly step in and stop it - open your mouths and have the courage of your convictions - todays youth are all our responsibility and an " And i know your parents and they'll have something to say about that" still can do the trick in many instances. But dont shrink past and mutter about the youth of today being out of control and immoral over a few snowballs - its crackers
Ok well we had better take all these immoral, out of control youths who are intent on wrecking society as we know it through their reckless use of snowballs and LOCK THEM AND THROW AWAY THE KEY!!!!!
I think you've lost the point here, squidge. I'd like to know how old you are.
~~Tides~~
27-Feb-05, 20:40
Im in the high skool and there is cameras watchin at lunch times and the rector does pull ppl in if they are caught so the skool is tryin but it is only snow [lol]
No he doesnt, he stands about watching them for a wee while before sodding off. Just like he stands about watching all the smokers.
The media and some of us here are intent on demonising kids so that people seem to be scared of them. Its madness. See a fight between kids - step in and stop it. See them behaving badly step in and stop it - open your mouths and have the courage of your convictions - todays youth are all our responsibility and an " And i know your parents and they'll have something to say about that" still can do the trick in many instances. But dont shrink past and mutter about the youth of today being out of control and immoral over a few snowballs - its crackers
Squidge, I am sorry I tend to disagree with your attitude of "its no the Bairns fault" its societies.
All Teenagers know the difference between right and wrong, but the majority now don't care if they are committing crimes against society or the public. in fact they think its their right, "because we are bored". There are areas in most cities where decent people are scared to go at night, why because of teenagers.
Your advice to step in and stop a fight got a Headmaster stabbed to death not to long ago, I personally would walk nay run away if I saw teenagers fighting.
I come from a family of 5 and my father ruled with a rod of iron, in fact a belt made from a horses harness belly band, he did not have to hit us with it, just threaten, and his rule reigned. None of my siblings were ever into drugs, teenage drinking, vandalising other peoples property, or any of the other "playful pranks" your idilic teanagers do today. And none of us were ever in trouble with the police. I went to school in the era of the Lochgelly Tawes, and it did not do me any harm, if a teacher gave me the tawse and I went home and told my Dad, his reaction was "you must have done something wrong" so you must have deserved it.
I and my wife brought up two sons and in a similar manner as my father did me. And to this day my sons hold down responsable jobs, have familys of their own, have never brought the police to my door, and as a result I am so proud of them.
Oh I wish the old values were here today
Golach
ok anyone who is defending these innocent kids and says that we as adults should do something.. go up a post and read about the old mannie who did do something.. well hes dead now.. the basis of the story is there I dont presume to know all the facts but lets look at what we have.. a group of teenagers terrorising sick old people IN THEIR HOME!
finally the husband gets tired of it and retaliates! and dies for his trouble! his poor wife has lost her husband .. children have probly lost a father and grandfather!
so yeah lets say these poor innocnet kids do not have the understanding of adults. they didnt know any better did they?
and at the end of the day who is going to be the bad guy.. the teenager who started it.. throwing stones at windows and terrorising an old couple who were defencless or the little old man who finally lost it.. went after them for retribution and ended up loosing his life.. ?
yeah i know this is a very hard msg but look what it is coming too!
grow up people and open your eyes.. look what your children are doing and do something about it.. dont sit back and say .. no my child would never do that.. assume they would and know where they are.. not just out with mates.. and if you see them trowing snowballs at cars people ect causing trouble grab em up and take em home and throw them in their room .. surley the law allowes you to stop your children being deliquents and grounding them?
God this is so disturbing!
Well said Brandy, I totally agree with both you and golach. When i was at school I was severly punished (not physically, more by disappointed parents as brandy said earlier) what had I done wrong to bring the police to our door and later to the school? A bunch of kids were playing hide and seek. Some of us hid in the public conveniences!
And can I ask you, Squidge, If a member of your family was walking along the road, and a car, hit by a snowball lost control and mowed your family member down, would your reaction still be, awe, come on, it's only kids throwing snowballs.
Throwing snowballs at cars may be exciting as you say, but it is VERY DANGEROUS!
Im a lone voice here i can see.
I am not saying there is not a problem with discipline.
I am not saying its all societies fault that children go wrong
what i am saying is this
A BUNCH OF KIDS GETTING CARRIED AWAY WITH THROWING SNOWBALLS DOES NOT SIGNIFY THE END OF SOCIETY AS WE KNOW IT
is that clear?
I am saying that kids WILL do things that are silly and stupid and dangerous and WILL completely ignore the fact that know they will get punished for it as i am sure you did Golach, and brandy your kids will do, despite the fact that they are having a morally perfect upbringing.
This does not make them delinquents and it does no t make them the scum of the earth it makes them KIDS.
That is the point in what i am saying
have you all got that now?
The issues around the old man are different. If he had been terrorised and victimised and pushed to the edge it is an appalling situation and action should havebeen taken to stop it. If he had, however gone into someone house and tried to strangle a boy what would you expect a father to do other than stop him and throw him out? There are two sides to a story and that is precisely why i have not posted on a thread i take to be wildly speculative and simply a load of nosy intrusive gossip. I would have removed the thread if it had been up to me.
for what it is worth my opinions on discipline are as follows.....
There are lots of ways of dealing with badly behaved children that doesnt incude threatening them with a leather whip. My kids have had a slap for their bad behaviour i dont tolerate ill manners rudeness and inconsideration in my children. I would not tolerate their being bullies or thugs - however i am not stupid enough to think i know where they are all the time or what they are doing and i am not deluded enough to think that they will ALWAYS do as i say. The best we can do is show our children the way and hope that they follow it. Their will be times they stray but we can bring them back with love understanding and discipline and thats what I believe.
What i said about society is that children are all our responsibility and we should be prepared to tell kids if we are appalled by their behaviour. I am happy to tell a bunch of kids if i think they are out of line whether thats in a shop on the street or on a bus or at the park. We should all be prepared to do that. it is our responsibilty. Seeing a bunch of kids picking on another i would step in and tell themn to get lost and make sure the one being picked on was ok. See them mouthing off in the chippy? I have said to them "enough" if you cant be polite go and stand outside"generally they do. Seeing them getting carried away with throwing snowballs i would say something to them . I am a small fat wifie with a BIG voice and i usually manage to sort stuff out. I am not the slightest bit intimidated by them. I think its my responsibility to do that as an adult
Sky divvy what on earth my age has to do with it i am not sure how old do you think i am?
I thought you might still be a teenager yourself. And I think we all know that decent well brought up kids will throw snowballs and think it great fun. If my child partook in this, I would not think he or she was heading for delinquincy, but I would make sure they understood the dangers. If after that, they continued to behave irresponsibly, then I would have to take disiplinary measures.
You did not answer my question. If one of your children was killed by an out of control motorist caused by a snowball, would you still think it was harmless fun?
I'm sure these children have been warned of the dangers - yet they continue to do it. If not - then in their eyes it will just be great fun, and it is up to the adults to see that they fully understand. I mean, playing chicken on a railway line is great fun too, isn't it?
Headlines in the papers today -10 yr old boy killed by snowball.
I thought you might still be a teenager yourself.
Awww thank you
But im 41
If my child partook in this, I would not think he or she was heading for delinquincy, but I would make sure they understood the dangers. If after that, they continued to behave irresponsibly, then I would have to take disiplinary measures
Im glad to see that you agree with me cos thats exactly what i said but you would have to catch them at it first or be told of their behaviour by a responsibleadult for you to deal with it. They very well might do it and not get caught
If one of your children was killed by an out of control motorist caused by a snowball, would you still think it was harmless fun?
Headlines in the papers today -10 yr old boy killed by snowball.
Actually i think the child was crushed by a giant snowball and the police described it as a "tragic accident"
I think i would be angry and devastated but i hope i wouldbe able to see that it was a tragic accident and not blame the thrower of the snowball or the driver of the car. How can i answer that question? In the light of such a terrible tradgedy i would be heartbroken and not thinking properlynut these are still kids acting stupidly and dangerously but they are kids. You think i should hunt them down and shoot them?
Those with guilt shall not cast the first snowball.
Book of Hypocrisy. Ch 1 Vs 1
Come on Everybody, we have all thrown snowballs, those that throw them inappropriately would throw a brick otherwise.
I agree that it is wrong for snowballs to be thrown at other people and passing cars, but as a teenager myself (late teens) i know what it is like in this town, there is nothing for the kids to do, i know thats no excuse for that kind of behaviour but if amenities and entertainment was provided im sure 85% of them would make good use of it and wouldnt be so bored that they'd get a bit carried away when having a snowball fight. Then their is the other 15% that are just evil and think it is really funny!!! Dont know wat should be done about them!!!!!!!!
Squidge, if you scan back through this thread, most of us have been making comments about the pranks of a few kids. Very few of us are tarring all teenagers with the same brush, or trying to demonise them.
I certainly can't agree with Golach who suggests that the majority of teenagers don't care how their actions affect society.
Most of the teenagers I come into contact with are a fine bunch, who have a fairly mature outlook on the anti social behaviours of the minority of their peers.
Evelyn
I can't remember ever having thrown a snowball at a car. No one told me not to, I just knew from an early age that it would be a dangerous thing to do. Snowball fights, sledging (yes even as a teenager) building snow houses, yes. Also there was even less to do in the town when I was a teenager, we had to make our own entertainment, but never got into trouble.
As for the 15% you talk about - brat camp comes to mind.
~~Tides~~
28-Feb-05, 22:30
brat camp comes to mind
Should write and ask them to start a Bettyhill camp.
brat camp comes to mind
Should write and ask them to start a Bettyhill camp.
Bettyhills a fine place. They would be queing up to be sent there. :)
I certainly can't agree with Golach who suggests that the majority of teenagers don't care how their actions affect society.
Most of the teenagers I come into contact with are a fine bunch, who have a fairly mature outlook on the anti social behaviours of the minority of their peers.
Evelyn
halleluyah - a kindred spirit
To be honest Evelyn i find it is a repeated and repeated issue in the media and on here that you never hear anyone saying anything good about teenagers. It drives me mad!!!!!
I am constantly surprised by folks inability to see that children are children and many are still children into their mid teens. To finally scupper skydivvys welcome misapprehension that i am still a teenager i have a 16 year old and a 14 year old. The 14 year old is much more mature and grown up in his outlook on things and his understanding of the potential effects of his behaviour than the 16 year old and i have done nothing any different in bringing them up.
I dont know if they throw snowballs at cars. I know that they have been told that its dangerous and i know that they have been in the car with me when snowballs hit us and understand how much it scares you so i would hope they dont but i cant be 100% certain im afraid. Id paste the living daylights out of them and they sure know that but still .... I know my boys, I know their frailties and insecurities and caught up in the moment well they might decide it was too hard to walk away.
The thing is that we dont seem to allow kids to be stupid and silly and make mistakes without seeming to suggest that a mistake turns them into delinquents. It doesnt, it makes them stupid and silly.
The vast majority of our teenagers are wonderful, funny, irritating, infuriating, loveable, kind and as you say evelyn " a fine bunch". Some of them make mistakes and do stupid things but it doesnt make them BAD. It just makes them teenagers.
i never said all teenagers are bad.. but there is a dif in having fun and being malicious..and it doesnt matter how mature that they are if they know right from wrong.. which unless they have special needs they would.. they very well know better than to terrorise people.. dont get me wrong im not talking about playing pranks and monkeing around.. on each other.. thats normal and fine.. its when they willfully with intent do damage and cause trouble..ive 5 brothers ranging from teh age of 18-26 and none of them have ever come foul of the law.. yes they have got into trouble and fights but never ever have they disrespected an elder or hurt someone weaker or smaller than them.. you will not find a more ruff and touble bunch than my brothers.. but they never even thought about doing something like these cetain kids do cause thier friends thought it was cool... for instance the oldest boy... who wouldnt know mushy emotion if it jumped up and bit him.. will help anyone who asks.. hes the type that if a lttle ole wifey was struggling with her bags he would carry them two miles for her.. none of them would ever barge past an elserly person or berate them.. to a one if they had saw those teenagers throwing snowballs at me when i was preggers would have beat them nearly to death.. You dont do things like that.. what if i had fallen? what if they knock a frail old lady over.. any idea how easy it is to break frail little bones?
these same sweet innocent kids that we have been talking about are the ones that like to throw dead seagulls into peoples houses.. and egg elderly ladies who live by theirselves houses... keying cars, breaking windows, cursing you when you try to help them?
yeah i really feel for them...
last summer i had to call the police.. because they were on our shed.. the roof is falling thru and we are tearing the whole thing down.. i went out and told them not to be on the shed because it was rotting and weak and they would go thru it .. and hurt themselves.. they threw obsenities at me... and laughed and threw pieces of the roof at us.. so we went to phone the police and when they saw that they took off..
called the police year before last cause there was a group of about 10-12 years old down at the life boat shed trying thier level best to break every window in the place.. what got me though.. when i told the police they were not interested in a description of the kids they wanted to know who i was where i lived and everything about me.. and never even saw them show up at the shed! but yeah these are just kids having fun.. destroying property ... isnt that larseny and pushing over old people, throwing things at people.. and trying to hurt others.. thats assault.. but nahh their just kids... so we will overlook them cause its just a few and most of the kids are good eggs.. but how long is that going to last? when is it going to get to the point that we say hey this isnt acceptable.. but then its too late.. because we waited too long to do anything about it..
sorry to go on an on but i want my children to grow up in a place where its ok to do these things because thier just children.. that is absolute rubbish.. you cant say that they are just children! they know better.. what are you going to do when one of these children kill someone.. are you going to say oh they didnt know any better... get real
I'm right behind you Brandy! I all parents had your attitude this would be a much nicer area to live in.
Giant Snowball tragedy........and it aint a laughing matter :~(
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/4303215.stm
Squidge,
Sorry for not backing you up here… I’m away from home working at the moment and access to the web (or rather message boards) is something of a problem.
Anyway, now I’ve got a few minutes:
Golach…
What a load of twaddle (and shame on you Brandy for joining in with him). You’re the online equivalent of a dour-faced auld mannie sitting in the corner at the Comm griping about everything without thinking about much at all.
‘The majority’ of teenagers don’t place themselves in situations where they need to worry whether their actions are crimes against society or the public because ‘the majority’ of teenagers aren’t criminals.
The death of the headmaster you refer to was, absolutely, tragic… can you find me an example from Thurso? From Wick? From Caithness? From the Highlands? You complain that teenagers don’t care about society… yet you’ve latched onto a single, tragic event that happened hundreds of miles from you to absolve yourself of all responsibility to that same society.
Worse; to continue to justify your lack of social conscience you seem to feel the need to tell us all that we should be behaving in the same way.
Worse still; Philip Lawrence had a moral backbone that led him to step in when he witnessed the kind of behaviour you decry but do nothing about… yet you would use him as an example of why we should all do nothing. You are doing a grave injustice to the memory of the man if you think for one second that he’d agree with you on this one.
I’m sorry, but the kids aren’t keeping people from going outside at night – you, and people like you, are doing that job all on your own.
Brandy…
I agree, this is disturbing. It’s disturbing that people think their only responsibility is to their own. You want to find somebody to blame for this dreadful society? How about looking inward for a moment.
Okay, so your kids are growing up in a household where they are taught how to behave properly. That’s great for them and all credit to you for it. But you just wash your hands of the kids on the street corner? So long as yours are good, eh? Can you imagine your parents taking that attitude; or your grandparents?
Perhaps the way that kids are behaving is different now to the way we behaved… but I can’t think that any adults would have passed me off as somebody else’s responsibility either.
The thing is that we dont seem to allow kids to be stupid and silly and make mistakes without seeming to suggest that a mistake turns them into delinquents. It doesnt, it makes them stupid and silly.
The most sensible thing written in this entire thread. Sadly, Squidge, the consensus would appear to be that the next step from throwing snowballs is burglary and assault (followed swiftly by murder) so I suspect that your point may be falling on blind eyes.
ok jjc.. so you tell me what we are suppose to do about these kids? we cant personally do anything.. if we say anything to them they give you abuse.. you certainly cant touch them.. and if you call the police.. which i have done they are more concerned with you and your whole lifes details than what the kids are doing!
yes parents have to tend to their own children..that is where this has to start..
can you give a sugestion as to what we are suppose to do?
as far as being silly and making mistakes that is entirely dif than cursing swearing at strangers in the street.. atacking people.. throwing stones at windows vandalisim.. and the other main parts that we have hit upon.. the whole snoball issue was over the danger they are causing.. not kids having fun..
winter 03 we were down the town.. with the buggy.. my husband and i.. on main street right infront of semi-chem.. and these two boys were rushing about in front of us.. they were about 9-10 years old and on thier own.. the one boy pushes the other.. and he falls backwards onto my buggy and baby.. i said exscuse you! theres a baby here.. the boy then proceded to shoot me a bird and say the F word.. followed by you.. and kicks the air at us and runs off.. a normal well raised child would have said.. im sorry.. which would have been fine as it was an accident.. not curse at you for daring to have your infant in the way!
but this again is just children being children isnt it?
on the corner store up here.. they stand and shout abuse at the passerby.. shoot the security camera birds and in general be anti-social.. a friend this morn was telling me that she knew an ederly lady that was terrified to leave her house because of a group of boys that are always outside her house.. she has called the police several times but what good does it do?
i have friends that were being terrorised by a group of boys.. knew exactly who they were the police would do nothing.. and when the friends wanted to put security cameras up said they couldnt as it was overlooking a public street.. even when a dead seagull was put in thier door nothing was done.. so you tell me.. what are we suppose to do to stop this?
there was a case not long ago where a group of teenage boys went to the police where an older man pushed one of them down.. surprise surprise never came up why the older man pushed the teenager down.. and guess who got into trouble .. for asault on a minor.. in my opionon these 15-16 year old boys.. they want to act like men maybe they should be treated like men.. sometimes a good kicking is the only thing that will get thru to them.. but dare anyone touch them they are the ones to end up in the clink..
sorry getting angry now.. its just ridiculous taking up for these so called kids that cause the trouble they dont need defended they need punished.. again not tallking about all of them just the ones that do these things!
[quote="jjc"]Squidge,
Brandy…
I agree, this is disturbing. It’s disturbing that people think their only responsibility is to their own. You want to find somebody to blame for this dreadful society? How about looking inward for a moment.
Okay, so your kids are growing up in a household where they are taught how to behave properly. That’s great for them and all credit to you for it. But you just wash your hands of the kids on the street corner? So long as yours are good, eh? Can you imagine your parents taking that attitude; or your grandparents?
The difference is, that in our day, if a kid got a clout round the ear from an adult, they did not go crying home to mummy and daddy, cos they'd get another with the words 'well you must have done something'. Now a days the adult would be charged. I do believe it's the minority, and no, Caithness is not as bad as further south, but it soon will be if something is not doene soon.
So, as Brandy says, what should we do?
Far be it from me to speculate on the events of Saturday night as disected on another thread, but I think we all know that if the manny hadn't died, he would have been charged with assault.
philupmaboug
01-Mar-05, 16:11
Brandy, you appear to have a great grasp of kickings and thier potential to bring kids into order. Is that not bringing youself down to thier level? if you or your family gave my kids a kicking I would make sure you were prosecuted to the full extent of the law. I think you are wrong to promote violence on this site...even if it is your oppinion. Get a grip.
we cant personally do anything.. if we say anything to them they give you abuse.. you certainly cant touch them.. and if you call the police.. which i have done they are more concerned with you and your whole lifes details than what the kids are doing!
Funny, I’ve called the police on several occasions to report children doing dangerous/illegal things (such as climbing on a church roof and smashing car windows) and have never found them to be uninterested… and I never considered it a problem that they wanted to know my details as well as the details of the incident I was reporting. Maybe that’s just me?
And as for the idea that we can’t do anything because they might give us some verbal… “Oh no, they might swear at me!” is a pretty lame excuse, is it not?
can you give a sugestion as to what we are suppose to do?
As Squidge says, saying something usually does the trick…
a friend this morn was telling me that she knew an ederly lady that was terrified to leave her house because of a group of boys that are always outside her house.. she has called the police several times but what good does it do?
What are this group of boys doing, exactly?
i have friends that were being terrorised by a group of boys.. knew exactly who they were the police would do nothing..
Sorry, you keep saying ‘the police would do nothing’ but I simply don’t believe you’re giving the full story.
Did the police simply ignore your friend’s calls completely or did they come around and discuss the situation? Does your friend know for a fact that the police didn’t speak to the children involved or to their parents? Did your friend report the seagull (and do they know for a fact that it was these children who put it there)? Or is it, perhaps, the case that the police did something, it just wasn’t what your friend wanted them to do… which would no doubt have involved misbehaving children being given life-long criminal records?
there was a case not long ago where a group of teenage boys went to the police where an older man pushed one of them down.. surprise surprise never came up why the older man pushed the teenager down..
At which point the relevance of your story escapes me… you simply assume that the older man pushed one of them down because they deserved it. What for?
they want to act like men maybe they should be treated like men.. sometimes a good kicking is the only thing that will get thru to them.. but dare anyone touch them they are the ones to end up in the clink..
Well imagine my surprise!
its just ridiculous taking up for these so called kids that cause the trouble they dont need defended they need punished.. again not tallking about all of them just the ones that do these things!
Again with the ‘so called’… what makes them ‘so called’ kids?
And I don’t see anybody here ‘taking up for these so called kids that cause the trouble’ – quite the opposite… and nobody has said that illegal behaviour should go unpunished or that dangerous behaviour should be ignored. It just seems that some of us seem to look at children and see potential delinquents whilst others look at delinquents and see potential children… but since you advocate giving them ‘a good kicking’ I suspect that point is lost on you.
[disgust]
Ok phillup, I agree kicking is not the answer - so what is? Personally I think a curfew for young hooligans might be appropriate.
I agree with Brandy. Parents should be responsible for their own children and their own children only. If people decide to have children then they should look after them, teach them right from wrong and be responsible for them. I think too many parents are caring about work, money and where the next designer label is coming from too much. More commitment should be put into their children.
Far be it from me to speculate on the events of Saturday night as disected on another thread, but I think we all know that if the manny hadn't died, he would have been charged with assault.
Do you… think, that is… ?
We know nothing about the case and nothing about what happened inside the house. Simply ‘making stuff up’ doesn’t really support your cause, does it. [disgust]
Ok phillup, I agree kicking is not the answer - so what is? Personally I think a curfew for young hooligans might be appropriate.
An appropriate option for actual hooligans is actually there - it's called an ASBO.
Or are you suggesting that we lock up all children outside of school hours because of the behaviour of a minority?
when i said give em a kicking i did not say you should go out and hit children.. thats stupid.. what i did mean is these older boys who cause the trouble.. and actually do hurt people.. you should be able to hit back without being charged with assault of a minor because they are under 18 and you are over it.. im not talking about 10 year olds in that situation but the 16ish ones.. who think they can do what they want..
JJC.. the last time i said something to the kids i was hurled abuse.. and had roofing thrown at me.. so yeah kinda gave up on that one.. and as i posted when i called the police it was over the life boat house.. stood there for 15 min watching and they never showed up while i was there.. so maybe they did come afterwards?
but by then the damage was done .. and they were off..
as for my neighbors yes had the police up nearly every other day for a while.. and all they would say was that unless they were caught in the act...
they couldnt assume it was so and so without any proof.. even though you see them its just your word against theirs.. again just want to point out the kicking part is in self defence.. people are afraid to stand up for theirselves.. because the law is not on their side.. i personally do not care how old a person is be it 16 or 30 if they hit me first i would prob. hit back.. its crazy to cower away from them because they are underage!
again not talking about the little ones.. all they need is a good skelping from thier mum and dads.. a good week in their rooms staring at 4 walls will open a lot of eyes!
some it wont do any good.. hmmm but boot camp that would be nice!
oh and not saying a good kicking would bring them into order but might give em a taste of their own medicine.. again repeat.. this is only in a case where they lashed out first.. not sugesting you go out and beat any passing kid giving you abuse!
when i said give em a kicking i did not say you should go out and hit children.. thats stupid.. what i did mean is these older boys who cause the trouble.. and actually do hurt people.. you should be able to hit back without being charged with assault of a minor because they are under 18 and you are over it..
Ummm… you can. Are we really going to have to go back over the whole ‘self-defence’ thing? … again?
when i called the police it was over the life boat house.. stood there for 15 min watching and they never showed up while i was there.. so maybe they did come afterwards?
So we’ve gone from “never even saw them turn up at the shed!” to “stood there for 15 min watching and they never showed up”… factually the same, but very different meanings…
…and just what did you expect the police to do once you’d left? Perhaps you thought Columbo was going to come down and work out exactly who did what from the way the skid-marks their bikes left?
as for my neighbors yes had the police up nearly every other day for a while..
And the truth will out… ‘did nothing’ indeed!
and all they would say was that unless they were caught in the act...
they couldnt assume it was so and so without any proof.. even though you see them its just your word against theirs..
So what would you propose that the police have done?
again just want to point out the kicking part is in self defence.. people are afraid to stand up for theirselves.. because the law is not on their side.. i personally do not care how old a person is be it 16 or 30 if they hit me first i would prob. hit back.. its crazy to cower away from them because they are underage!
Clearly we do need to revisit the laws on self defence! :roll:
aww god.. dont want to go up against you! just wanted to make a point.. the point with the life boat shed was the damage was done and kids were gone.. so it was inafectual.. and as for the neighbor in effect they didnt do anything.. what good does it do to come and say.. sorry we cant help you? is that doing anything? what could they have done? patrol the area more often? ive never seen a policeman on this street unless theve been called out..
An appropriate option for actual hooligans is actually there - it's called an ASBO.
Or are you suggesting that we lock up all children outside of school hours because of the behaviour of a minority?[/quote]
Of course I'm not! That is not what I said at all! I said HOOLIGANS if you care to read my post properly. So there is an ASBO. What good is that if it's never enforced? The MINORITY - the hooligans, and we all know them, seem to get no disiplin whatsoever, either from parents or law.
We know nothing about the case and nothing about what happened inside the house. Simply ‘making stuff up’ doesn’t really support your cause, does it. [disgust][/quote]
I am not making stuff up. How do you know what I know and what I don't? However, I do not believe we should discuss it further.
Lets talk hypothetically, a man/woman lays a hand on a child, and for whatever the reason, he/she can be charged with assault.
Go ahead, tell me I'm wrong :mad:
Lets talk hypothetically, a man/woman lays a hand on a child, and for whatever the reason, he/she can be charged with assault.
Go ahead, tell me I'm wrong :mad:
It makes perfect sense to me that if you assault a person (of any age) then you should be charged with assault.
Perhaps you can explain why, in your view, adults should be able to live free of violence but children should not?
I agree with Brandy in everything exept the physical violence bit. Violence breeds violence. But a lot of parents do not dish out any kind of punishment. It's a case of 'My boy/girl wouldn't do that.'
Then there are the parents are so bad that the kids are just crying out for help. Some hooligans round here are actually very nice kids if you seperate them from their peers and take time to talk to them. They need guidance, structure and rules. They are not getting it from the parents, the schools and police appear to be powerless. Boot camp should be compulsory for all kids getting into trouble for the second or third time.
Brat camp only works because these kids have parents who care!
It's bad if an elderly woman is afraid to come out of her own home.
Don't get despondent Brandy - hang in there!
Perhaps you can explain why, in your view, adults should be able to live free of violence but children should not?[/quote]
A life of violence? Definately not, I do not agree with violence in any form. but if a kid kicks your door, breaks your windows, scratches your car, hurles abuse when you check them, I think they are only so full of bravado because they know the law is on their side!
If I caught a kid breaking my window, and if he hurled abuse at me when repremanded, sorry, but I would be sorely tempted to grab him by the scruff of the neck and march him to the nearest police station - only, wait aminute, I would get into trouble - so what the hell! I'll just slap him instead!
And by the way, if he kicked me, child or no, I'd kick him back!
*laughs* nahh me never.. i dont mean physical violence against children !*gasps* the most physical i get with kids is when i smack thier hands when they get to near an electrical socket or hot cooker.. and say no touch hot or it will bite you.. and that is a gentle slap to get their attention nothing harsh or really painful ! :o)
the violence that i was talking about are these grown kids.. and there really arnt many of them here.. but the few they are.. this is theory only.. if they push or hit you first shouldnt you be able to hit back with out being charged with assault.. cause as far as my understanding they dont normally get charged..as an adult would because they are underage? my forms of punishment.. is dependant on the age small children.. toddlers and pre-schoolers.. its time outs.. and going to their room to bed in sever cases.. ie.. my toddler threw a block at the baby.. i said No do not do that again it hurts.. he then looked me straight in the eye and threw it and hit the baby on purpose.. he was taken to his room and put to bed.. i let him sit up there and cry for about 15 min.. when i went and got him i explained to him why i did it again.. in case he forgot and told him that it was bad to throw.. did not even spank him or hit him.. and he has never deliberatly hit the baby with a block again.. older children i firmly belive in grounding and removal of any and all privilages depending on the crime!
when it comes to the ones that are wantonly destructive and just mean all out.. that are anti-social and beyond normal help.. then yes i would suggest boot camp..
they need to realise they are not the end all and be all..
they dont know everything.. and they have to grow up..
its sensless to say they are just kids.. when they know what they are doing is wrong .. but they dont care who or what they hurt.. as long as they have power and control..
does any one know the statistics on how many parents a bullied and pushed around by their children?
how many kids actually raise their hands in violence against their mums?
dont think they dont because i have seen it.. not in wick mind you but i have seen it..
its amazing whats kept behind closed doors...
theirs so many help lines for kids.. how many are their for the parents who cant cope.. whos kids are evil little demons who they have no control over.. that at 11- 12 years old are doing drugs having sex and causing crimes?
Maybe if these parents brought up their kids like you did Brandy, they would not be being abused now!
I was in a shop the other day when a mother refused to give her toddler a sweet, he turned to her and swore.
Where did a bairn still in a buggy learn to speak like that? The mother just laughed, like it was precious!
Post edited to remove swearing, note the masking swearwords is not acceptable. Read the rules.
oh god katrina i know! i actually have a cousin whos kids are like that.. we try not to curse around the kids.. but unfourtunatly every now and again a bad one slips out!
you just cant help it sometimes.. ive pretty much substitude sugar and spice .. and great googly mooglie for most of mine but every now and again .. shakes head!
whats bad about that is usually people thinks its funny and cute because they dont really understand what they are saying.. but unfourtunatly they soon will.. and will use those words in every sentence!
im in no way a perfect parent.. never will be im afraid but i try my best.. there are times i loose it compleatly and have to hand the kids over to hubby and just get away.. many times i have felt if i didnt walk away i would hit one of em.. but i havent yet and hope never to!!!
im prob to military in my thinking .. but i belive they def need boundries and laws.. dont want to even think how om going to react the first time they come home drunk or get into serious trouble! will prob. go ballistic and lock them away! or send them to america *giggles*
and one thing I am sitting my foot down on.. (grins) i have two boys.. that if God forbid they get a girl pregnant.. it is NOT her problem! they were part of it and come what may they are going to be responsible *grins* wait getting terrible off subject.. ignore my ramblings! its this flu!! *argghh* the whole family is sick! tis why im able to be on here.. boys are all snuggled in dosed with cal-pol and liquids and resting quietly! a very sleepy day! well between the wakefull cryings and snuggles.. nothing makes a sick little boy feel better than snuggling on teh couch with mummy watching endless balamory!
I am not making stuff up. How do you know what I know and what I don't? However, I do not believe we should discuss it further.
Lets talk hypothetically, a man/woman lays a hand on a child, and for whatever the reason, he/she can be charged with assault.
Go ahead, tell me I'm wrong :mad:
You're wrong.
(and, by the way, it's very handy that you raised the incident here but "don't believe" we should discuss it.... personally, I don't think you should have raised it at all, but there you go. ) :roll:
No, I'm left... my signature says so.
Squidge, Rheghead,jjc
I rest my case
Link (http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=15244285%26method=full%26siteid=89488% 26headline=grandad%2d%2d75%2d%2ddrops%2ddead%2dcha sing%2dneds-name_page.html)
The Birch would be too good for them
Golach
Lets talk hypothetically, a man/woman lays a hand on a child, and for whatever the reason, he/she can be charged with assault.
Go ahead, tell me I'm wrong :mad:[/quote]
You're wrong.
I'll quaratee I'm not wrong. I'll lay money on it. Unless you're delibrately misinterpreting what I say.
Well, that's that then. If it's in the Daily Record, then every word of it must be true, obviously. :roll:
Colin Manson
01-Mar-05, 22:01
It's also here in the P&J (http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=149485&command=displayContent&sourceNode=149233&home=yes&contentPK=11916957)
And yup Drutt it is true.
philupmaboug
01-Mar-05, 22:23
I think Kat is right! if you put your hand on someone (as in touch) it is technically an assualt but the interpretationis then put to the PF if there are witnesses (who will come forward) and he makes a decision as to wether it should be persued. I believe you can also be charged with putting someone in a state of fear...again if you have witnesses. Big grey area all around. But kids today have no respect for the system and they know how to abuse it...and before you all jump on me I dont mean all kids, just the ones we are refering to.
An assault is only a police matter if it leads to bruising or a break of the skin. All other injuries eg reddening of the skin etc is a civil matter. I just thought I would clear that up.
there was a case not long ago where a group of teenage boys went to the police where an older man pushed one of them down.. surprise surprise never came up why the older man pushed the teenager down.. and guess who got into trouble .. for asault on a minor.. in my opionon these 15-16 year old boys.. they want to act like men maybe they should be treated like men
How could you!!!!!
I know the boy you refer to in the post. He was frightened and assaulted and pushed off his bike by a man who was drunk The case went to court and the man was ordered to pay him compensation. This boy was actually 14 if i remember rightly. He is a friend of my sons and despite the fact that he is six foot odd tall and has size 13 feet or something equally large he is a BOY, He knows less about dealing with drunk strange men than you do about dealing with teenage boys. This is exactly what i mean - you see a case you think you know about and the boy in question is the bad one!!!!!!!!!!!!! Its EXACTLY what i said about preconceived ideas and labelling children as delinquent when you know absolutely nothing about what happened. How dare you assume that cos it suits you to believe it to be so you know better than police who brought the case and the sherriff who tried the case...
Thats the trouble with this - so many of you dont see further than your own front doors. Too nosey to stay out of other peoples troubles and keep your opinions to yourself too weak and selfish to do anything more constructive than moan and complain about it. If all of you that have spent so much time saying "hear hear" and "absolutely" bothered to get off your bums and go and try to make a difference then we might have somethings for the kids to do and less of them hanging around the street corners.
ASBOs are there to be used - if you are being " terrorised"- use them. But they will thank goodness require proof and evidence something sadly lacking round here.
Golach my old friend i am not rising to the bait - you know i will NOT indulge in this gossip so dont expect me to. If there is fault anywhere then it will be found to be so in a court and not by me reacting to your post.
I think too many parents are caring about work, money and where the next designer label is coming from too much. More commitment should be put into their children
Please tell me this is not going to stray into a "mums should be at home argument" . How about work money and paying the rent and putting food on the table! Lets just not go there i am appalled enough :D
philupmaboug
02-Mar-05, 01:45
Rheghead, assualt is only a police issue if you have a witness! To many people dont have the conviction to stand up and give evidence in matters they feel dont concern them. We should all remember that "it could be you" and I dont mean the lottery.
[
I know the boy you refer to in the post. He was frightened and assaulted and pushed off his bike by a man who was drunk The case went to court and the man was ordered to pay him compensation. This boy was actually 14 if i remember rightly. He is a friend of my sons and despite the fact that he is six foot odd tall and has size 13 feet or something equally large he is a BOY, He knows less about dealing with drunk strange men than you do about dealing with teenage boys.
I know nothing about this case, except what i have read here, but if a big boy like that was afraid of a drunk man - surely all he have to do was cycle away? After all, he was the one who was sober and had the bike. I mean why did he have to 'deal with' him? Did this drunk man run after a six ft lad who is minding his own business and assault him for nothing? As I say I know nothing about the case - but somehow it doesn't quite add up. I know drunks can be obnoxious - bat as I say - get on yer bike.
thats an awfully strong responce for me saying what i heard about! and i never claimed to know all the details.. and as katrina said . if hes as huge as you say.. get real.. im sure he was terrified! raises hand.. remember i have 5 brothers.. i know a darn lot about teenage boys maybe you should open your eyes a bit instead of beeing blinded by the fact hes your sons friends..
i was a teenager not that many years ago.. and i know exactly how they act.. and unless boys are completly dif over here they hardly ever tell a story that dosent put them in a good light! by any chance was your son with them when it happened?
of course they are going to say that they were compleatly innocent..
just speculating of course.. no idea if this is what happened and not saying it did.. but in theory i would say teenage boys taunting drunk.. drunk turns on them .. boys dont expect someone to come back at them get scared cause ooopps they picked on someone that didnt cow down and was drunk! so dont know what to think! wait we will go to the police!
hes drunk.. no one will belive we started it by calling abuse at him..
and thats the end..
but thats just speculation of what may have happend didnt see it wasnt there.. but i very seriously doubt the man attacked the poor wee mite for no reason.. if he was just sitting there on his bike doing absolutly nothing.. however a drunk could easily sway over and knock him over in adrunken stupor and never know what HE was doing!
most of the old mannies up here that are drunks are realitivly harmless.. as long as you dont antagonise them.. just remember they are two sides to every story.. and usually 3 or 4!
Rheghead, assualt is only a police issue if you have a witness! To many people dont have the conviction to stand up and give evidence in matters they feel dont concern them. We should all remember that "it could be you" and I dont mean the lottery.
Wrong. It is up to the police and the PF to decide if there is enough evidence to prosecute. There is additional evidence apart from witnesses, eg DNA, items left behind, etc
It is up to the police and the PF to decide if there is enough evidence to prosecute.
Right. For evidence you need witnesses. right? It would have to be pretty severe for there to be forensic evidence.
How could you!!!!!
I know the boy you refer to in the post. He was frightened and assaulted and pushed off his bike by a man who was drunk The case went to court and the man was ordered to pay him compensation. This boy was actually 14 if i remember rightly. He is a friend of my sons and despite the fact that he is six foot odd tall and has size 13 feet or something equally large he is a BOY,
I too know nothing about this case but am trying to imagine the scenario. I am putting myself in the boys shoes. Here am I, a strapping six footer sitting on a bike, and my friends are with me. Here comes a drunk and he staggers towards me in an agressive manner. Now, I am completely innocent and don't want any trouble, also I am SCARED. Do I sit and wait to be assaulted? No I get on my bike and get out of there.
2nd scenario. Here is a stupid old (or young) anyway pathetic drunk. Lets give him some hassle. I have my friends around me. If he retaliates (which I'm pretty sure he won't) I have witnesses - he, on the other hand doesn't.
So regardless of the rights and wrongs, what else could a court do?
I appoligise in advance if i'm wrong, but like Kat says - your version just doesn't add up.[/code]
Severerity isn't an issue here, if there is enough evidence whatever the nature the police will prosecute providing it is in the public's interest.
Its a strong response because this is an awful thing you said.
It is your assumption that cos a boy is big and tall he is equipped to deal with drunks and assaults. You say you know teenagers cos you have five brothers - im sorry but you should know that although they are often the size of men they have not the confidence or the experience of men.
You automatically assume that the boy is to blame regardless of anything else you sniff look down your nose and assume that the lad was behaving like a thug.
On what basis? that drunk mannies up here are relatively harmelss unless you antagonise them? apart from the fact that you are wrong about that - some are large and scary and unpleasant and nasty I have come across a few in my work.
What do you need to do to antagonise a drunk? Snigger? look at them? be in their way and unable to move quickly cos you are sat on your bike? Drunks are unpredictable and sometimes very unpleasant for no reason.
What if this had been one of your brothers? Would you have automatically assumed that he had been "taunting" or "terrorising" the druk man? He arrives home with his brand new bike damaged, upset and bruised having been assaulted by a drunk guy. You would have slapped him and sent hiim to bed for a week because he couldnt possibly be telling the truth would you?
We lived in a flat in Wick for a good while, one evening at 6.30 the door bell went. My eldest some went down to answer the door - i was in the shower. It was a drunk man - he pushed his way into the hall way and knocked my boy against the wall. He was abusive and unpleasant. My lad told him he had the wrong house and the guy told him to F off and get out his way. Fortunatlely he left but my lad who was also 14 was scared and upset by this incident because again - he was a big lad but he doesnt know how to deal with aggressive drunks.
but that is just saying yeah i know... what its like to face drunks.. so dont patronize me because you think your kids and thier friends are saints cause i very much doubt they are.. none are..
i can see that You know Brandy just like i know but lots of children dont have your experiences - your children wont for example and thank goodness for that. I wouldnt want ANY 14 year old to have to deal with that. i have already said in a previous post that my boys are not innocent wee babes - i know they are apt to misbehave and do stuff that they shouldnt - my arguments is and always has been that that is normal and doesnt make them delinquents, thugs or uncontrollable.
Your point appears to be that in EVERY situation the young person is to blame if things get out of hand.That simply cannot be true. Whether your brother had been verbally slagging off another boy - that boy hit him over the head with a BRICK!!!! that is NOT ACCEPTABLE. The other boys should have been charged with assault. Your brother may very well have needed a punishment for his part in it but he could have been killed! would you have thought that was his own fault too?
So get off your snobbery high horse you acuse me of being on..
you are the one on here who are acusing me of looking down my nose .. when you are
the pot calling teh kettle black You might want to explain that Brandy cos i dont know what you mean.
for any that read the previous post i felt that after writing it it was to inflamotory and sinking to levels i personally do not want to.. so i deleted the post as i do not want to start that kind of mud slinging.. on here i am making a point.. saying simply that teenagers are not innocent children that do not not what they are doing and do not take in the wider concept.. when these certain indivduals.. do things to maliciously hurt others.. ie snowballing moving cars, kicking doors, breaking windows vandalism and all others covered and not covered in this post .. it is wrong they know it is wrong and know better than to do it.. it simply is not kids having fun.
and the point i was trying to make with squidge.. dont take your teenagers at face value very rarley will they take blame for something that will get them into trouble..
if you can not accept that then that is your perogative but there is no need to start slagging people off because they brought up something you do not approve of .. or do not agree with.. i have been told to get off my high horse and accused of being a snob.. but i think certain people should look to their own doors as well.
Come on Squidge - you are going a bit over the top - I know what Brandy means - and so should you - you are attacking her for making a comment about a friend of your son's - well, ok, she wasn't there - but neither were you.
I'll quaratee I'm not wrong. I'll lay money on it. Unless you're delibrately misinterpreting what I say.
Ah, now you’re talking… how much money? Before you name your figure, consider carefully what “and for whatever the reason” encompasses…
Squidge, Rheghead,jjc
I rest my case
A truly sad story… but I’m not quite sure what ‘case’ this lays to rest.
An old man died of a heart-attack whilst chasing kids. How does that absolve you of your civic responsibilities?
And whilst we’re (or at least I’m) talking about civic responsibilities… what were this poor man’s neighbours doing for the last year?
if a big boy like that was afraid of a drunk man - surely all he have to do was cycle away? After all, he was the one who was sober and had the bike. I mean why did he have to 'deal with' him? Did this drunk man run after a six ft lad who is minding his own business and assault him for nothing? As I say I know nothing about the case - but somehow it doesn't quite add up. I know drunks can be obnoxious - bat as I say - get on yer bike.
Once again, Katrina, how very civic minded of you… and you complain about the kids of today! :roll:
It seems to me that any child who approaches a drunk to help him out would be showing a better understanding of his responsibilities than you, Golach and Brandy combined…
…but then Squidge didn’t say that the boy approached the drunk, she merely said that he didn’t know how to deal with him.
Oh, and there’s no need to shout!
thats an awfully strong responce for me saying what i heard about!
No, it wasn’t. Especially when, even now that you have somebody telling you what they know to have happened, you continue to raise the suggestion that the boy was at fault… “i know a darn lot about teenage boys maybe you should open your eyes a bit instead of beeing blinded by the fact hes your sons friends.. hes drunk.. no one will belive we started it by calling abuse at him… but i very seriously doubt the man attacked the poor wee mite for no reason..”
Littering your post with ‘just speculating’ and ‘no idea if this is what happened’ is really no excuse for you vicious insinuations.
That you can’t imagine a child not antagonising a drunk is a sad reflection of your attitude. That you can’t imagine anybody trying to help a drunk is a damning reflection of your personality. That you can’t imagine a drunk simply taking offence at anybody standing nearby is a shocking example of naivety… especially considering the story you’ve just told about your step-father.
his bike was destroyed? well thats punishment isnt it?
i wouldnt be buying him a new one cause he was stupid enough not to get away.
Now you’re just being downright ignorant. For a parent you seriously need to grow up. A kid attacked by a drunk is too stupid to get away? God help your children if they ever need you to back them up!
As for your story about your brother’s fight… I thought you said your brothers were raised properly, to respect the rules (bend them, but never dangerously you said)? Rose-tinted glasses, perhaps?
[disgust]
The Angel Of Death
02-Mar-05, 13:27
There is always 2 sides to every coin !!!
I know myself when we was younger and a drunk came along we used to take the mick and purr them up it was a laugh i just cant see how a "rabble" of bairns would wait for a drunk to come up and then wait to be pushed off a bike etc as said previously the guy was on a bike and could have quite easily went away on it
And also i know when i got caught doing stuff i shouldnt have been doing i ALWAYS painted the story in such a light that i wasnt to blame / was someone else / the big boys done it and ran away
Been there done that and turned every story i could to get out of it (worked sometimes but not always) as teenagers are some of them look for trouble / a laugh and anyone and everything is fair game
Am not saying its right but just a view from someone who was a "typical teenager" not that long ago
That you can’t imagine anybody trying to help a drunk is a damning reflection of your personality.
Was that what happened?
Was that what happened?
I've no idea... but I didn't discount the idea out of hand and leap directly to the assumption that the boy must have been in the wrong. [disgust]
jjc.. as i said i went overboard with that post the reason why i deleated it.. and no they never ran afoul of the law.. as i stated.. what i did say was they got into a shouting match with a group of boys and the other boys retaliated with violence.. so how is that getting into major trouble? my brothers did not hunt them down and take revenge so they didnt break any laws..
if you recall it was my brother who was hurt..
and these were teenagers all of them.. they were not terrorising people who had done nothing to them. it was a group of teenage boys that got into it.. as will happen in any culture and generation. male hormones and territory.. it got out of hand when the other boys took it to far.. but my point was that my brother was not an innocent victim.. he had been part of an argument.. where a bunch of thugs wanted to get their own back. with doing as much damage as they possibly could.. look familiar?
not to that extent.. but how often do you hear of people hear standing up to the hooligans.. and having tires slashed, windows broken ect ect.. exact same thing just in a dif way.. they havent evolved yet to bashing in heads.. and stalking people on the streets.. YET... but it will get there eventually if its not stopped..
i agree with the curfew idea though,, can you give me a good reason why and kid or teenager should be out and about in the middle of the night unless its for an emergency situation?
now i have seen 12ish 13 ish year old kids down the street at 2 am in the morning! now what decent parent would let thier children out and about at that hour? when they should be home in their beds..
I have decided that JJC is the most entertaining person on this board. It is a certainty that if someone says white, he's going tosay black - probably just for the hell of it. Well I will answer one of your questions; quote; (And whilst we’re (or at least I’m) talking about civic responsibilities… what were this poor man’s neighbours doing for the last year?)
The old man lived on the corner, no neighbours to his right. The first house to his left is empty. The next building is a business therefore closed at night. The third house is empty and has been for about 50years. The fourth house is occupied, but the lady is often unwell and in bed. This is probalby why he was targeted - an easy mark.
and while we're at it, how do you get quotes in these lirttle blue boxes?
and again wondering why a 14 year old is considered a child? they are not.. ummm a lot of people at 14 are getting ready for college .. have jobs.. does charity work.. and in some cases though i do not advise it are starting family's! if at 14 you can do this then why are you calling them children? they are not .. they are teenagers not children but not adults.. leagally.. now by the time they are 16-17 years old unless they have special needs do not see how at all you can call them children.. they are able to work and live on their own.. so you tell me how are they kids?
katarina.. just click the lil quote box in the right hand corner of the post you want to quote
katarina.. just click the lil quote box in the right hand corner of the post you want to quote
Yeah, but there's no difference to your post and mine. Some of them appear in a little box, so everyone can see the difference.
Oh yeah - it happened this time - it hasn't before!!!
Come on Squidge - you are going a bit over the top - I know what Brandy means - and so should you - you are attacking her for making a comment about a friend of your son's - well, ok, she wasn't there - but neither were you.
ok
the thing that really annoys me and i have tried to say this several times is the blanket assumption that the kids are always to blame and that behaving in a silly and stupid manner and making a mistakes is somehow the road to their delinquency. This occurs in this and other posts again and again and again and is simply not true.
This case Brandy spoke about was not heresay, the COURTS decided that the boy in question had been assaulted. Why would anybody then say well it was all his own fault anyway when they know nothing of the case? see i dont get that! Brandy brought that up to illustrate that teenagers "get away with being badly behaved and the poor adult is victimised for taking a stand" that isnt what happened she was wrong the courts agreed with that and that needed to be pointed out
Lets get this clear you know i like clarity :D
1. Teenagers are wronged as many times as they are in the wrong.
2. Not all teenagers are BAD
3. Not all teenagers are little angels - my own included and just for the record brandy i will say this again
"i am aware that my boys have frailties and insecurities I know they can be badly behaved they have been and have been punished for it"
4. i beleive that we have a responsibility for ALL children and for each other..., part of that is to be fair and treat people as individuals and not lump them together as a bad lot through prejudice and ignorance.
that is what all my responses on this thread have been about and will continue to be about.
Been there done that and turned every story i could to get out of it (worked sometimes but not always) as teenagers are some of them look for trouble / a laugh and anyone and everything is fair game
Am not saying its right but just a view from someone who was a "typical teenager" not that long ago[/quote]
That sounds about right
see, it didn't happen that time.
I didn't get that impression from Brandy's post, squidge. I got the immpression that she was just pointing out that, like my signature says, the pendelum has swung too far. You have to admit, teachers are now afraid of their pupils, this was never the case when I was at school. I don't particularly agree with the strap or cane, yet banning it seems only to have made things worse.
There are a lot of nice, well mannered kids around, and I for one did not get the impression from Brandy's post that she was branding them all with the same stick.
Was it you who said that we should all be responsible for eachother's kids? That would be great, but if you saw a child doing something wrong would you repremand him/her? If they were doing something really bad, would you physically restrain them? If so you did you might have the parent coming to your door screeching abuse, and for the restraint, you could be charged. - a sad fact but true.
The Angel Of Death
02-Mar-05, 15:07
Exactly wasnt that long ago that a copper could give a lad a "clip round the ear" kept a lot of peop lin line now however if that same option is applied nowadays you all know what happens
I know a story of a young lass that was giving the big i am to her mum who gave her a slap and she reported her for abuse and is now staying with the grand parents
How do you control that if a parent cant keep a child in line is there any hope for anyone else i got quite a few and chased with a brush once (supose it'll teach me to run faster) never did me much harm at all
doreenhedgehog
02-Mar-05, 15:42
Too many teenagers nowadays think they can do whatever they want. Their parents, even when they are caught red-handed will not accept that their son/daughter would do anything wrong, and there lies the problem. I have firsthand experience of the harrassment and stress that a few bad ones can cause. They try to push you as far as they can to provoke a reaction, and hope you will say the wrong thing, or push them/hit them whatever. If you keep your cool and go the police, they deny everything and their parents lie for them. I've seen this on several occasions.
When I was a teenager you'd get the belt at school if you were bad, and when they took that away, the problems started. I also knew if I dared to shout abuse at adults I'd get a good hiding. Same goes for bullying. That did me no harm, and I feel I grew up with more respect for others than many youngsters nowadays.
Too many mamby-pamby liberal do-gooders have got us in this state which is almost impossible to turn around. They all say "don't do this, and don't do that to unruly teenagers, but they haven't come up with an alternative yet.
If they were doing something really bad, would you physically restrain them? If so you did you might have the parent coming to your door screeching abuse, and for the restraint, you could be charged. - a sad fact but true.
It depends what it is they are doing. If it is really bad then no court in the land would prosecute anyone for defending themselves. And if the parent came screeching abuse then they may be breaching the peace. The law is always on the side of the innocent.
What would i do - if i had the power?
I would have the courage of my convictions, i would get involved with youth work and try to make a difference.
I would make sure that there were enough police that ASBOs were used where approporiate
I would work hard to be fair to each individual teenager i was involved with
I would like to see the young people responsible for crimes made to face up to their victims
I would like to see a society where people think its their responsibilty to lead by example and not to tar everyone with the same brush
I would ike to see schools where the behaviour of an elder child isnt considered a good reason for ignoring/ writing off the younger one
Oh
and
I would stick up for the majority of our young people - ok kids they are not i accept that brandy but a 14 year old is not an adult - who are sometimes stupid, sometimes bad and sometimes make mistakes but are not delinquents.
And thats a start
Was it you who said that we should all be responsible for eachother's kids? That would be great, but if you saw a child doing something wrong would you repremand him/her? If they were doing something really bad, would you physically restrain them? If so you did you might have the parent coming to your door screeching abuse, and for the restraint, you could be charged. - a sad fact but true.
No, that was me…
And yes, I have reprimanded children when I’ve seen them doing dangerous/illegal things. And yes, I have physically restrained children when I’ve needed to. And yes, I have had parents screeching abuse at me.
No, I’ve never been charged by the police for that… in fact, I’ve never even been questioned over it.
Go figure… :roll:
What would i do - if i had the power?
I would have the courage of my convictions, i would get involved with youth work and try to make a difference.
I would make sure that there were enough police that ASBOs were used where approporiate
I would work hard to be fair to each individual teenager i was involved with
I would like to see the young people responsible for crimes made to face up to their victims
I would like to see a society where people think its their responsibilty to lead by example and not to tar everyone with the same brush
I would ike to see schools where the behaviour of an elder child isnt considered a good reason for ignoring/ writing off the younger one
Oh
and
I would stick up for the majority of our young people - ok kids they are not i accept that brandy but a 14 year old is not an adult - who are sometimes stupid, sometimes bad and sometimes make mistakes but are not delinquents.
And thats a start
Squidge,
take up politics, I want to be your campaign manger
Golach
In an ideal world squidge, unfortunately I haven't seen any flying pigs for a while.
However, if you ever do stand for PM, I'll help with the campaign!
And yes, I have reprimanded children when I’ve seen them doing dangerous/illegal things. And yes, I have physically restrained children when I’ve needed to. And yes, I have had parents screeching abuse at me.
No, I’ve never been charged by the police for that… in fact, I’ve never even been questioned over it.
Go figure… :roll:[/quote]
You are lucky!
Do you know anybody who has been arrested for physically restraining a child from doing something dangerous or illegal?
I remember a case a few years back, when a man caught a boy slashing his tyres. He caught the boy, put him in the back of his van and drove him to the nearest police station. He was charged with kidnap!
Then there was the man who caught kids emptying his dustbin yet again! He caught one girl by the collar and pulled her back marking her neck. He was charged. I think he was found guilty and had to pay compensation.
Not too long ago our own high school janitor was charged because a boy delibrately tipped over the can of paint he was working with and when he repremanded the boy he was met with abuse. He threatened the boy with his foot but did not touch him. The boy claimed he did and although there was no forensic evidence, the janitor was charged. Ok, so the court did not convict him - but it must have been a very stressful time for the man, and what a waste of public money!
And what about all the teachers who have lost their jobs? One man just because he seperated two boys who were fighting! They may not be convicted, but as they wait for the court case their careers are ruined. :mad:
It depends what it is they are doing. If it is really bad then no court in the land would prosecute anyone for defending themselves. And if the parent came screeching abuse then they may be breaching the peace. The law is always on the side of the innocent.[/quote]
Oh, well, try telling that to all those who have lost years of their life through being wrongly convicted. I think the law is always on the side of the guy with the most expensive lawyer.
In an ideal world squidge
Lets see shall we
I would have the courage of my convictions, i would get involved with youth work and try to make a difference. every one of us here can do this at any time and in lots of different ways
I would make sure that there were enough police that ASBOs were used where approporiate political and i have no control over this just now
I would work hard to be fair to each individual teenager i was involved with again everyone of us can do this in every contact we have with young people and in the comments we make and the attitude we adopt
I would like to see the young people responsible for crimes made to face up to their victims again out of my control but it is beginning to happen elsewhere in the country i will try to find a link
I would like to see a society where people think its their responsibilty to lead by example and not to tar everyone with the same brush We can influence this NOW in our attitudes and behaviours if we want - seeing the state of the county's young people as our buisness is a start
I would ike to see schools where the behaviour of an elder child isnt considered a good reason for ignoring/ writing off the younger one changingattitudes will take time but maybe this can be done
I would stick up for the majority of our young people - ok kids they are not i accept that brandy but a 14 year old is not an adult - who are sometimes stupid, sometimes bad and sometimes make mistakes but are not delinquents. we can all do this very very easily and start now. Stop seeing badness in everone and start seeing potential and some of these things will be easy and might just make a difference to one child somewhere.
Ideal world skydivvy? Not necessarily. Just a recognition that there are things we CAN do to try to make a difference. I may never stand for politics but I can do my bit
and look at all the boxes i made it took me AGES
I do think we should invest in our young, and I was a foster parent for a lot of years, but I do think discipline has become very lax these days. The kids need it. I am not blaming the kids - it's just the mad way the world is going.
Now I'm bored with this thread. I'm off - and I still don't know how to make boxes.
I remember a case a few years back, when a man caught a boy slashing his tyres …
So no, you don’t know anybody who has been charged for restraining a child from doing something illegal or dangerous? Your “hands-off” approach to civic responsibility is based entirely on hearsay and rumour…
I’m afraid that bundling somebody into your van and driving off with them is kidnap… even if you’re intention is to go to the police station. Any reason why the man didn’t call the police to come to the scene?
Any story starting ‘then there was the man who…’ doesn’t fill me with confidence as to its completeness … any more details available?
Your janitor story sucks as an example… he threatened to kick a child for giving him lip??? Sounds like an ideal person to be working around boisterous kids every day! :roll:
As for the teachers… would you prefer that teachers aren’t investigated when allegations of physical and/or sexual assault are made against them?
This is indeed an emotional subject and, having ploughed through the last 4 pages, I felt compelled to add my bit.
Just the other night, I was driving up past the Portland Arms when, from behind a large sign, an icy snowball was thrown at the car. It hit with a resounding crack, and I stopped in Lybster to get my breath back and to examine the car for damage. The person I was with was all for going back and giving the perpetrators a piece of his mind but, to be honest, I was just relieved that nothing more serious than a broken indicator glass had happened.
I feel split between the different opinions on this forum.
My parents brought me up with the assistance of a leather belt and buckle, a slipper whose tread I will never forget, and the back of four different hands. Now I'm not condoning this - they certainly considered that I deserved every punishment I got, but it taught me the difference between their right and wrong. It also taught me how to anticipate the consequences of my actions. Now that I'm older and responsible for myself, I can make decisions according to my right and wrong. One of the joys of being an adult!
One of the joys of being a child is believing the world revolves around you - children are programmed that way for survival; but by the time you get to be a teenager, this way of thinking should pan out to include the other things around you. Afterall, a teen comes into so much more contact with other people, situations, environments, circumstances - you name it. There is a proper learning process in place in all children to make the most of this and if their mistakes aren't corrected somehow by an adult, it takes a little longer to un-learn what society rates as bad behaviour.
I have been lucky enough to work with teenagers and yes, as individuals, I've not come across one who wasn't polite and respectful (even the abused ones) - to my face anyway. However, you get a bunch of them together, unsupervised, and they revert back to destructive toddlers , full of resentment towards adults.
I know this is a huge generalisation and there are certainly vast differences between boys and girls. Age certainly also makes a difference - hopefully by the time they hit about 16, the stupid and senseless characteristics have worked their way out, making way for the caring and considerate ones.
Going back to my snowball the other night, I can remember having had a great childhood with plenty of snowballing, igloo-making and whatnot in the winter, ample shrimping and tree-climbing in the summer, but it wouldn't even have crossed my mind to dare throw a snowball or any projectile at a passing car/person. It just wasn't done. That's not the threat of the slipper or belt talking (although I'm sure it would have been made available for me), rather the fact that adults were adults and there to be respected.
I hope there is nothing too self-righteous in this missive - I am just saddened by the stories of what people do to each other these days, however many sides these stories have. I can't even offer up any mindblowing new answers to this problem, which I'm sure is the same problem affecting every generation.
But I've found that just taking the time to listen helps.
Your “hands-off” approach to civic responsibility is based entirely on hearsay and rumour…
Hands off approach? I was a foster parent for many years, and workred voluntarily in a youth club - I don't call that 'hands off.'
I’m afraid that bundling somebody into your van and driving off with them is kidnap… even if you’re intention is to go to the police station. Any reason why the man didn’t call the police to come to the scene?
He was asked that in a TV interview. By the time he called the police the boy would be gone. Having caught him he wasn't about to let him go to make a phone call.
its completeness … any more details available?
Undoubtedly I could get many more instances and details, but I do not see the point.
As for the teachers… would you prefer that teachers aren’t investigated when allegations of physical and/or sexual assault are made against them?
Investigated yes, but not suspended for up to a year because a known troublemaker reports that he was pulled out of a fight![/quote]
I don't think you are self rigeous at all, gus. I don't remember ever having been hit as a child, but very few of my geneation would have behaved the way so many of them do now-a-days. I am not in favour of going back to victorian times when children were expected to be seen and not heard - spare the rod and spoil the child and all that, but now it's getting past a joke. I do not know the answer either, but maybe it's the parents who should be charged - not the kids. Now before anyone jumps on me - I know there are good parents out there who go through hell with rebelious teenagers - but there are also a lot of the other kind. Goodbye and goodnight -Skydivvy has left the building.
I have to aggre with everything you siad gus and i dont think its self righteous either but thats a matter of opinion :o)
Whats shone through for me on this thread is the fact that we are all victims in one way or another. Whats going on with the snowballs is a symptom of something much deeper.
I dont know the answer either but i know that a lot of these kids are hurting in one way or another.
I think any parent could say, there but for the grace of :evil go me.
The real problem is ineffectual parenting. IOW failing to set standards, giving in for a quiet life and failing to set an example themselves. You reap what you sow I guess?
We all reap what they sow.
doreenhedgehog
02-Mar-05, 22:57
Good shout Rheghead.
Am not saying its right but just a view from someone who was a "typical teenager" not that long ago
I was the sort of kid my parents didn't let me play out with myself.
No you didnt sound self righteous Gus at all. Rheghead is right, however ineffectual parenting is only part of the problem. Gleeber is right too many of these children are hurting. Skydivvy is right in that we should invest in our young and as a former foster parent i am sure they mean all our young not simply our biological children. jjc is right in that teachers should and MUST be investigated over allegations of abuse. Brandy is right in that we should not be scared in our homes of teenagers and 14 year olds are not children.
I think....im not sure like........ but i think that we are all agreed here that young people need love understanding and guidance, good enforced boundaries and loving punishment when they step over them. Treating them as individuals is the way to do this and not lumping them together as a wholesale menace to society is a good start.
Thanks for the discussions everyone im following skydivvy!!!!
Although i might have to come back for my bag :D
Bet you never expected to spark off all this, seabird! Should you get the prize for most replies?
Bet you never expected to spark off all this, seabird! Should you get the prize for most replies?
Aha - this thread has a long way to go before it reaches the dizzy heights of the "no war" sign (http://www.caithness.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=2677) thread which spread over 11 pages with 313 replies.
Although i might have to come back for my bag
Sorry squidge, your bag has gone, those kids that you are always defending have nicked it :( :D
42 children suspended from school in southern England yesterday for throwing snowballs in the playground!
You are correct in your assumption Katarina.
Mind you i was not surprised in the way the thread developed from snowballs to teenage behaviour.
I did say at the start i have enjoyed many a snowball fight and still do.
There will always be some teenagers who will push the envelope of exceptable behaviour to the limit.
Like most things in life there will always be one or two yobs who will take advantage of a situation and spoil the fun of the majority.
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