View Full Version : fox hunting
A cruel sport definately, but animals have always been hunted by other animals - it's the law of the wild. They might as well pass a law banning lions from hunting antelope.
or they might as well drop the law on murder, lions regularly kill the young of other lions, we should just get on and murder the annoying kids that play in the street, or that guy that cut out in front of me this morning.
get real katarine, we are supposed to be living in a civilised country.
BTW: did anyone watch "bowling for columbine" last night?
JammyDodger69
22-Feb-05, 11:21
Yeah the difference is the Lions kill to survive, Fox's are killed for sport or to keep their numbers down..
It's just wrong!
Little Miss Naughty
22-Feb-05, 11:40
I think this should of been banned a long time ago!!!
How would the people who call themselves hunters, like to become the hunted and get a taste off there own medicine and get hunted by a pack of dogs, so they are scared out of there wits, with nowhere to go and nowhere to hide, but run till they can run nomore, hence they then get caught and torn to pieces. I think this is barbaric and people call it sport, sport is football, tennis, car racing, etc. NOT HUNTING LIKE THAT.
I know animals eat other animals, but that is nature and they have to eat, this is just what some sick individual gets there kicks from and think its big. [mad] [mad] [mad] [mad]
Yeah the difference is the Lions kill to survive, Fox's are killed for sport or to keep their numbers down..
It's just wrong!
Lions are cats. Cats are the only animal (apart from man) that kills for the fun of it. I didn't say I agree with it, just that hunting has always gone on and I think a hunted fox has a lot easier time of it than say if he was kept imprisoned in a lab.and experimented on. The numbers of foxes have to be kept down. I do believe they should be shot when cornered, not torn apart by hounds.
I used to live near a slaughterhouse. The screams of these animals when they smelt blood are still with me. Imagin being imprisoned, feeling real fear and not being able to run. I think that is far more cruel.
By the way when I said animals have always been hunted by other animals, I included the human race.
doreenhedgehog
22-Feb-05, 11:59
Foxes are vermin and should all be shot. They kill for fun.
Little Miss Naughty
22-Feb-05, 12:11
[quote]I used to live near a slaughterhouse. The screams of these animals when they smelt blood are still with me. Imagin being imprisoned, feeling real fear and not being able to run.
What about the poor foxes which have nowhere to run and are cornered, heard there screams, cos I can say it isn't nice and anyway in the slaughter house they get killed out right, not torn apart [mad] [mad]
I don't think any animal which is hunted just for the fun of it and to boost peoples egos is easy or that they have an easy time off it, put you self in the animals place hunted till you can't go on any more, then torn to pieces!! I know what I feel is worse, but everybody is entitled to an opinion. Some more madder than others!! [mad] [mad]
I agree with you Doreen they should be shot where they are pests.
They should not be torn apart by hounds for the amusement of people out for a weekend jaunt.
[quote="Little Miss Naughty"][color=blue]I think this should of been banned a long time ago!!!
How would the people who call themselves hunters, like to become the hunted and get a taste off there own medicine and get hunted by a pack of dogs, so they are scared out of there wits, with nowhere to go and nowhere to hide, but run till they can run nomore, hence they then get caught and torn to pieces. I think this is barbaric and people call it sport, sport is football, tennis, car racing, etc. NOT HUNTING LIKE THAT.
What about a poor fish struggling on the end of a line with a hook in its mouth? What fear it must feel while it fights to break free, and what if it does? To live forever with a festering hook lodged in its chops!
See now i dont have a problem with people fishing shooting pheasant, deer, ducks rabbits etc
I think that if people are going to eat what they hunt i am ok with that. Its the killing just for the killings sake i dont understand
[ Its the killing just for the killings sake i dont understand[/quote]
Personally I don't even kill insects. I catch them and put them outside. However, after watching Trevor McDonald program last night, I think the animal activist are going a bit far. OK. poor foxes. But if some one has all that energy, funds, time and anger, then direct it to a more worthwill cause. there is so much wrong with our society that need many more champions. Personally i feel problems such as child abuse, homelessness, victims of crime, starvation in third world countries, all to be much more worthy of their involvement. Animals on the whole are much more humanely treated in britain than many people elsewhere in the world. I'm not pro fox hunting - but I do tend to prioritise.
Little Miss Naughty
22-Feb-05, 14:14
[quote]What about a poor fish struggling on the end of a line with a hook in its mouth? What fear it must feel while it fights to break free, and what if it does?
What has fish go to do with the fox hunting, they are not chased by a pack of dogs and torn apart, just for the fun of it. But the poor foxes are and all for the fun and pleasure of the so called hunters!!
As I said everybody has the right to an opinion, and seeing the start of this topic was on the fox hunting not fishing or anything else, I very much agree on the ban and if they do have to hunt to have fun they could at least shoot it and put it out of its misery, before the dogs shred it to bits. [mad] [mad]
Whitewater
22-Feb-05, 14:36
The rights and wrongs of fox hunting are really immaterial as far as that law is concerned. Foxes are a pest should be controlled, I also agree that hunting with dogs is cruel.
However the real issue is the manner in which the law was passed, it was originally rejected, so Tony Blair resurrects the old parliament act to force it through. This is not the way a democracy should be run.
It stinks of George Orwells 1984. we have now got big brother telling us what we can and can't do.
The anti smoking law is another example of the Law going crazy. I am not a smoker, but buildings could be made to have well ventilated smoking areas. the choice whether to smoke or not is our own.Another infringement on our rights.
doreenhedgehog
22-Feb-05, 14:50
Smokers are vermin and should all be shot....oops!
Only joking!! Couldn't resisit that :D
Smokers are vermin and should all be shot....oops!
Only joking!! Couldn't resisit that :D
Yes doreen! I have a brilliant idea - replace the foxes with the smokers and no one will complain!
oops!
I for one am glad that this 'sport' has been banned, what pleasure people get from torturing poor animals is beyond me! [mad]
Yes they should be dealt with say if you had a farm and they were killing your livestock, but other than that it is just wrong!
~~Tides~~
22-Feb-05, 17:48
Cats are the only animal (apart from man) that kills for the fun of it.
Nuh Un, Chimpanzees kill each other aswell as tons of other animals.
Cats are the only animal (apart from man) that kills for the fun of it.
Nuh Un, Chimpanzees kill each other aswell as tons of other animals.
But is this for fun or defending their territory? Guess Chimps are getting more like humans all the time......
Does anyone know what the new law actually is as it seems to be a bit of a grey area?
I saw a gamekeeper and four helpers out a couple of years ago hunting foxes with about twelve dogs and apparently this is allowed as the dogs are used to 'flush out' the foxes and then the gamekeepers shoot them.
I have to say that the sight of the poor fox fleeing in terror is still with me!
It was pretty scary as they were doing this in an area which is popular with walkers and my dog is a Sheltie with the colourings of a fox. I dread to think what would have happened if he had been off the lead! :eek:
I think that the law in England is that only two dogs can be used and I wondered whether this was the case in Scotland as well?
doreenhedgehog
22-Feb-05, 18:36
Shelties are vermin and should be.......maybe not. :D
Seriously I think shooting them is okay, it's just hunting them with dogs that is banned.
George Brims
22-Feb-05, 18:56
Rabbits and mice are vermin. Foxes eat rabbits and mice. Unless a fox takes to raiding henhouses it should be left alone performing its function in the ecosystem, keeping down the numbers of vermin.
Chimps kill each other over territory, tribe vs tribe. They also hunt and kill and eat various kinds of monkeys. They aren't getting like us, they've always been that way. It's just they aren't getting such good press lately.
Whitewater, smokers have had centuries to develop manners and smoke where it doesn't bother other people. Time's up! Away outside with the lot of them!
doreenhedgehog
22-Feb-05, 19:01
Foxes also kill lambs amongst other things George. Just for fun.
A cruel sport definately, but animals have always been hunted by other animals - it's the law of the wild. They might as well pass a law banning lions from hunting antelope.
But animals only kill to eat were humans dont.I think fox hunting should be banned its not a sport.A sport is were both of yous have the same chance like two people playing darts they each have 3 darts like snooker they each have a cue.The fox only gets a head start thats not fair one things for sure if the fox had the same capabilitys as a lion the fox hunters wouldnt go chasing it with dogs thats for sure
My Grandad had a smallholding with hens. On several occasions he found dead hens in the hen run. He always blamed foxes getting into the hen's run. Until one morning when he heard a big squabble in the hen's direction and saw his neighbour's whippet helping himself to a bit of sport!
I can't help wondering if similiar 'bad press' to the fox have occurred elsewhere?
George Brims
22-Feb-05, 20:21
doreenhedgehog wrote:
>Foxes also kill lambs amongst other things George. Just for fun.
Well of course they do, though they also do it simply to eat them. When they do, there's a thing called a gun. No need for a bunch of drunken yahoos on horses with a pack of dogs.
I have always been on the side of the fox in this debate but not in any radical sense.
I heard one of the yahoos on telly last week and he said something very interesting.
He said if this was happening in a South American rainforest Sting and Bono would be doing concerts to raise funds for them.
I think he had a point.
doreenhedgehog
22-Feb-05, 20:42
Well of course they do, though they also do it simply to eat them. When they do, there's a thing called a gun. No need for a bunch of drunken yahoos on horses with a pack of dogs.
exactly what I said - shoot them all!
George Brims
22-Feb-05, 21:31
No I didn't mean we have to shoot them all. There are far more foxes in the countryside than most people even imagine, and they rarely bother anyone or their livestock. Most likely when one does it's because the numbers have increased beyond their usual food source. Rodent populations in particular fluctuate wildly from year to year, causing the fox population to oscillate too.
Meanwhile near where I live in California, some nitwit has let loose a big cat - either a lion or tiger - which is roaming the countryside. No fatal encounters yet, but pawprints over six inches across have been found.
I see nothing wrong with a Gamekeeper or a Farmer shooting a fox that is destroying their birds or chickens.
What does abhor me is a bunch of so called aritos with horses and red coats chasing an animal be it fox or stag or what ever, until it is either overrun or drops with exhaustion with a pack of baying dogs and even louder baying humans then tearing the animal apart. And they consider themselves to be examples to others in society.
I lived on farms most of my formative years and my Father worked on farms all his working life, and I have never seen a hunt in my life, and never want to.
How Normal humans can inflict this on any animal is beyond my ken.
Golach
There are far more foxes in the countryside than most people even imagine, and they rarely bother anyone or their livestock.
So foxhunts are a poor form of pest contol? Good, I'm glad we have established something worthwhile.
The law says a fox can be flushed out by dogs and then shot. Hunts can be carried out as long as the dogs follow a 'dummy' trail, that is a trail laid by dragging a dead fox over the countryside. This I believe is a good idea as it does not stop the hunt, but no animal is tortured. However, the problem is, if a live fox happens to cross the 'dummy' trail, the hounds can and may follow it.
Although I am totally against any kind of blood sport, as a horse rider I can understand the excitement of partaking in a hunt. Hounds are trained to tear the fox to pieces. It would be equally easy to train new hounds to corner the fox only.Surely the thrill of the chase and the capture should be enough? The fox, if the hounds have followed a real trail, could then be allowed to go free. Would this satisfy everyone?
John Traill
23-Feb-05, 14:27
What's everyone getting so worked up about? (Other than by-passing democracy) The law currently being discussed at length in the media applies to England and Wales.
Scotland already has a law covering the subject which has been in force for over two years. The "Protection of Wild Mammals (Scotland) Act 2002" baned hunting with dogs from the 1st of August 2002.
JT
misschief
23-Feb-05, 16:58
Fox hunting is cruel. The fox is flushed out, then chased for miles (or as long as it can manage) by a pack of dogs. The pack is picked so that it can run for maximum time with maximum chance of success ( a mix of sprinters an marathon runners). Following this team of dogs are several horses with people and horns and noise. When the fox is eventually run to exhaustion the dogs catch it and literally rip it apart while its alive and the civilised individuals of the hunt watch on.
I am not against hunting with dogs though for example hare coursing. The hare is more likely to outrun one dog and perhaps even two, but when you use more the dogs work together minimising the energy the spend and therefore maximising the time that the entire pack can run at full pelt. This is cruel.
Gamekeepers and farmer need to be careful when shooting foxes. They must shoot and kill immediately not wound and let die.
One final point is that humans are moving into the foxes natural environment. They are terretorial animals, also the way we live encourages them to stay within our environment. Try for a moment to look at it from a fox point of view. You have a choice.
1. Expend a large amount of time and energy hunting down and killing a wild bird.
2. Find a supply of birds which are fat and cannot fly and even better all hemmed in together. Minimum effort..
Now before anyone attacks me yes the farmers and gamekeepers need to protect their birds. All I am saying is this should be done with maximum compassion for the animal.
doreenhedgehog
23-Feb-05, 17:26
One final point is that humans are moving into the foxes natural environment. They are terretorial animals, also the way we live encourages them to stay within our environment. Try for a moment to look at it from a fox point of view. You have a choice.
1. Expend a large amount of time and energy hunting down and killing a wild bird.
2. Find a supply of birds which are fat and cannot fly and even better all hemmed in together. Minimum effort..
Now that is a very good point! ;)
All of these are okay points – everyone has their own opinion. The one which I worry about, which hasn’t been picked up so far, is for the horses – many of these ‘hunting chaps’ own and care for their horses extremely well, but most are used purely for hunting purposes – I’m afraid that the horses will suffer, they will no longer be required and what will happen to them then, will they ever get attended to and have the quality of life that they have become accustomed to???? Or will some go for meat because new government legislation demands that all horses/ponies (basically) must have a ‘meat passport’.
hounds can be trained. Say they were trained to follow a completely different scent - not one of a wild animal, and then a dummy trail laid. There are ways of compromising if only some one was willing to make the effort.
I think foxes should be encouraged to thrive (or even a wolf population) because how many times do we hear rabbits and deer need culling. A healthy predator balance would negate the need for human intervention into these nuisance creatures.
I think foxes should be encouraged to thrive (or even a wolf population) because how many times do we hear rabbits and deer need culling. A healthy predator balance would negate the need for human intervention into these nuisance creatures.
If you were a farmer you wouldn't be saying that! And we definately don't want wolves back.
doreenhedgehog
24-Feb-05, 10:33
The wolves could help keep down the number of ramblers..... :eek:
All of these are okay points – everyone has their own opinion. The one which I worry about, which hasn’t been picked up so far, is for the horses – many of these ‘hunting chaps’ own and care for their horses extremely well, but most are used purely for hunting purposes – I’m afraid that the horses will suffer, they will no longer be required and what will happen to them then, will they ever get attended to and have the quality of life that they have become accustomed to???? Or will some go for meat because new government legislation demands that all horses/ponies (basically) must have a ‘meat passport’.
The Belgians & The French would love these horses
Golach
[quote=KAT1E]All of these are okay points – everyone has their own opinion. The one which I worry about, which hasn’t been picked up so far, is for the horses – many of these ‘hunting chaps’ own and care for their horses extremely well, but most are used purely for hunting purposes – I’m afraid that the horses will suffer, they will no longer be required and what will happen to them then, will they ever get attended to and have the quality of life that they have become accustomed to???? Or will some go for meat because new government legislation demands that all horses/ponies (basically) must have a ‘meat passport’.
And what about the hounds? they are not pets. Where would they end up?
As its now illegal, I'd imagine that the breeders of the hounds would stop breeding and the current generation will soon be homed. Similarly for the horses.
I think foxes should be encouraged to thrive (or even a wolf population) because how many times do we hear rabbits and deer need culling. A healthy predator balance would negate the need for human intervention into these nuisance creatures.
If you were a farmer you wouldn't be saying that! And we definately don't want wolves back.
Actually, I think a wolf population could be supported in some areas of Scotland for deer predation purposes. Some deer areas are fenced off from roads and housing so wolves would be no hazard to the public.
Wolves would be a low tech and effective measure to control deer plus adding to the biodiversity of Scotland which in truth was their natural habitat in the first place...
If these so called sportsmen and women want a sport as they cant hunt foxes any more they have plenty of horses plenty of hounds im sure they could come up with something between the two they are just animals after all and a fox last time I seen one was also an animal .
luskentyre
24-Feb-05, 23:11
Foxes are vermin and should all be shot. They kill for fun.
Actually they don't just kill for fun. Sometimes they bury their prey for eating later on.
Humans kill for fun...
doreenhedgehog
25-Feb-05, 10:14
Actually they don't just kill for fun. Sometimes they bury their prey for eating later on.
Humans kill for fun...
Sometimes, maybe. Sometimes for fun.
Humans kill for food as well, you might be surprised to know. Not foxes though.
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