A plague on all your houses!

[Kenn]

I have been astounded to read that we are not supposed to object to wind farm proposals and that we should look on them as a thing of beauty that will bring the tourists flocking to the county.
Aye right!
My daughter was recently up a visit and was astounded to go to one of her favourite viewpoints in Sutherland only to see it blighted by wind turbines, to say that she was miffed is a trifle understated.
With regard to the proposed large windfarm in The Moray Firth is no one taking into account the environmental damage that could be caused?
We are host to the most northerly common dolphin group and with the recent research pointing to the fact that there could be a link between strandings of cetaceans and under water noise polution should we take a chance of driving away or driving to distraction these creatures that bring thousands of pounds into the economy?
I think not.
HANG your heads is shame Holyrood.

[Shaggy]

grab your tinfoil hat Lizz, the acid rain is about to respond......

[Kenn]

Lol Shaggy don't think a tinfoil hat offers much protection.

[Even Chance]

Wipe yer chin, yer slevering a bonny amount there[lol]

[ywindythesecond]

Wipe yer chin, yer slevering a bonny amount there[lol]
See what you are up against Lizz? With such a massive intellect ranged against you you have no hope. This is from Struan Stevensons new book.

Extract from Struan Stevenson MEP’s new book
“SO MUCH WIND The myth of green energy”

Two demonstration turbines already in posi­tion can be easily seen from many parts of the Caithness and east Sutherland coastline, so the visual impact of an offshore wind factory of this magnitude leaves little to the imagination. How­ever, the prize for the biggest wind farm of all will go to Mori in the Moray Firth.
What is being billed as the world's largest offshore wind farm, with 339 turbines at a cost of £4.5 billion, will be constructed 12 miles off Caithness by Moray Offshore Renewables Ltd (MORL), a joint venture between Spanish/Portuguese firm EDP Renew­ables (HDI'R) and Spanish oil and gas company Repsol Nuevas Energias. Work will commence in 2015 and be completed by 2020. MORL says that the turbines, which will tower 200 metres above sea level, will cover an area of 295km2. They claim that they will produce up to 1,500MW of power. Dan Finch, project director and managing director of EDPR UK, estimates 'that the project will be capable of supplying the electricity needs of 800,000 to 1,000,000 households' (Scotsman 03/09/2012).
The project will have an estimated lifespan of around 20 years, during which time the turbines will require constant repair and maintenance due to the harsh conditions in which they have to operate. We will also have to rely on constant base-load back-up from coal- or gas-fired power stations to keep the lights burning on the days when there is no wind or when the wind is blowing so strongly that the Moray Firth turbines have to be shut down.
The cost of the project, set at £4.5 billion, is therefore simply not economically sustainable. A new state-of-the-art nuclear power station capable of producing 1,200 MW of power, oper­ating at 80"-n efficiency and with an estimated lifespan of 60 years, extendable to 120 years, costs between £2.5 and £5 billion, including all decommissioning and waste disposal costs. And nuclear power is virtually C02 emission free.
The conclusion has to be that the SNP Scottish Government is determined to give this monstrous project and others like it the go-ahead because it fulfils the dogmatic prophecies of their 'green', anti-nuclear agenda. The vast subsidies for this and other offshore wind farms are simply passed straight down the line to the electricity consumers, leading to repeated hikes in our bills and, as we have seen, driving more than 900,000 Scottish house­holds into actual fuel poverty. The project is not being built off the coast of Spain by this predominantly Spanish company because the Spanish Government has seen the light and ended all subsidies for wind turbines. There would be no onshore or offshore wind farms in Scotland either if there were no subsidies.
Rising fuel bills will drive industry out of Scotland and destroy jjobs, just as happened in Spain. The devastating visual impact of this development will destroy tourism around Caithness and the Moray Firth. The pile driving and laying of concrete foundations over almost 300km2 of the Moray Firth will have a catastrophic impact on marine ecosystems and sea mammals and the long-term noise and vibration from the 339 giant turbines will drive most sea life out of this formerly productive fishery. If anyone thinks this proposal is green they should think again.

[macadamia]

All we need to do is be a bit patient. Now the Daily Mail has proved that there's no climate change, and now we know wind turbines operate at 20 something percent efficiency, and that when the wind's too much or too little then you need the feelthy oil, coal, and gas machines to make the electrickery work, and now we know they last for 25 years before crumbling into a heap of waste aluminium, and that eventually the subsidies for the bloated plutocrats to pay for them will run out as the government have to build new fortress prisons to house the "refuse to pay" revolutionaries who just got too fed up with the rich man's subsidy coming out of their higher power bills - and above all, because we know that in the next few years, another fashionable group of swivel-eyed would be Einsteins will prove scientifically, empirically and beyond all doubt that wind farms cause cancer, and the answer lies in the fracking shale oil goo fields, then the aberration of the windfarms WILL disappear, and all will be well again - until the next doom merchant raises its rheumy eye from underneath the rock of ignorance.......

[Even Chance]

Awa an boil yer heid windy-keich-second talker. If you want IQ, try studying instead of copy/pasting other folks slevers!

[macadamia]

Good to see the cut and thrust of reasoned debate in these hallowed pages, my dear chap! I regret to tell you that boiling my head will in no way diminish the efficacy or indeed truth of my argument!

[ywindythesecond]

Good to see the cut and thrust of reasoned debate in these hallowed pages, my dear chap! I regret to tell you that boiling my head will in no way diminish the efficacy or indeed truth of my argument!
Beg pardon mac, I do believe that it was aimed at me!!

[macadamia]

I'm so sorry, Windy! I had difficulty interpreting the patois. DO chaps really talk like that? I thought it was reserved for the inhabitants of Brigadoon!

[ywindythesecond]

I'm so sorry, Windy! I had difficulty interpreting the patois. DO chaps really talk like that? I thought it was reserved for the inhabitants of Brigadoon!

He is clearly a fraud mac. He says "boil yer heid" when it should be "bile yer heid".

[Kenn]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-21802001

That's what I was referring to.

[roadbowler]

LIZZ, I agree. Equally ridiculous are the monstrous turbines towering over the camster cairns. However, I just look on them now as a monument to human stupidity and greed cause I know once all the subsidies have dried up and the science has inevitably proven itself through the passage of time some enterprising Caithness folk will recoup by making a small fortune in scrap metal from all the abandoned turbines in 20 years time. Get yer angle grinders ready!

[neilsermk1]

In the absence of any informed comment constructive or otherwise from your good self maybe its time for you to consider who is sleverin
Awa an boil yer heid windy-keich-second talker. If you want IQ, try studying instead of copy/pasting other folks slevers!

[Shaggy]

Get yer angle grinders ready!

A huge spanner is just as effective and a lot quieter in reducing them to scrap.......unbolt, unbolt, unbolt.....timmmmmmbbbbbbbeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr [lol]

[cptdodger]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-21802001

That's what I was referring to.

"Highland councillors have been advised not to object to plans to build the world's largest offshore wind farm in the Outer Moray Firth."

They were only "advised" not to object. Nobody said they could'nt object. Unless I am very much mistaken, these councillors are elected to be the voice of the people they represent. So, if you are all so dead set against these wind farms, maybe you should all be lobbying your local councillor, because at the end of the day, they speak and vote on your behalf.

[cptdodger]

Mind you, maybe it's a bit late, just seen this -

http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?199923-No-objection-from-council-to-offshore-windfarms

[MerlinScot]

@cptdodger, I might be wrong but... Does that mean they're building the windfarms no matter what people will say about them? It just seems that the project already had the green light to proceed because nobody at the Highland Council objected.

[MerlinScot]

I have been astounded to read that we are not supposed to object to wind farm proposals and that we should look on them as a thing of beauty that will bring the tourists flocking to the county.Aye right!My daughter was recently up a visit and was astounded to go to one of her favourite viewpoints in Sutherland only to see it blighted by wind turbines, to say that she was miffed is a trifle understated.With regard to the proposed large windfarm in The Moray Firth is no one taking into account the environmental damage that could be caused?We are host to the most northerly common dolphin group and with the recent research pointing to the fact that there could be a link between strandings of cetaceans and under water noise polution should we take a chance of driving away or driving to distraction these creatures that bring thousands of pounds into the economy?I think not.HANG your heads is shame Holyrood.I wish we could understand who Holyrood employed as tourism counsellors. I still have to see a tourist taking pictures of any windfarm.... Many just don't mind, but it is a big jump from not being bothered by their view to finding them pleasant... Doh!

[cptdodger]

@cptdodger, I might be wrong but... Does that mean they're building the windfarms no matter what people will say about them? It just seems that the project already had the green light to proceed because nobody at the Highland Council objected.

I have no idea if they are building them regardless what people say or think about them. What I was saying, the people that did not object, are your elected councillors, who are supposed to speak on behalf of the people they represent.

[Rheghead]

We are host to the most northerly common dolphin group and with the recent research pointing to the fact that there could be a link between strandings of cetaceans and under water noise polution.

There are 796 offshore wind turbines around the UK coast. Do you have any evidence that those turbines have so far caused any strandings? Do you have a distribution map around the UK of where those strandings have occurred? Lots in the Morecambe Bay and Thames estuary. I'm keen to see what you come up with.

[roadbowler]

"Highland councillors have been advised not to object to plans to build the world's largest offshore wind farm in the Outer Moray Firth."They were only "advised" not to object. Nobody said they could'nt object. Unless I am very much mistaken, these councillors are elected to be the voice of the people they represent. So, if you are all so dead set against these wind farms, maybe you should all be lobbying your local councillor, because at the end of the day, they speak and vote on your behalf.You've clearly never been to a Highland Council planning committee meeting where Scottish Government lawyers, officials and planners are in attendence then. I have and I can tell you that the councillors hardly say a cheep, the heads bow, the thumbs twiddle and then at the end all the hands shoot up on the "ayes" in pavlovian unison. And when they aren't there? They begin sentences by leaning back in their chairs and saying, "The Scottish Govenment in their infinite wisdom.... " and finish them with planning terminology they clearly do not understand whilst the head planner picks his nose and nurses his hangover.Elected officials and voice of the people my arse.

[cptdodger]

You've clearly never been to a Highland Council planning committee meeting where Scottish Government lawyers, officials and planners are in attendence then. I have and I can tell you that the councillors hardly say a cheep, the heads bow, the thumbs twiddle and then at the end all the hands shoot up on the "ayes" in pavlovian unison. And when they aren't there? They begin sentences by leaning back in their chairs and saying, "The Scottish Govenment in their infinite wisdom.... " and finish them with planning terminology they clearly do not understand whilst the head planner picks his nose and nurses his hangover.Elected officials and voice of the people my arse.

No I have'nt been to a Highland Council planning committee, I have never had the need to. And if the councillors are not elected, then I stand corrected.

[roadbowler]

There are 796 offshore wind turbines around the UK coast. Do you have any evidence that those turbines have so far caused any strandings? Do you have a distribution map around the UK of where those strandings have occurred? Lots in the Morecambe Bay and Thames estuary. I'm keen to see what you come up with.no, there isn't "evidence" they cause strandings. Largely because cetaceans stay away from consistent noises and underwater disturbances. It is more likely barotraumatic injuries occur as a result of sudden changes of pressure and noise releases underwater. If anything, it will drive the pods out of the Moray Firth.

[Rheghead]

no, there isn't "evidence" they cause strandings. Largely because cetaceans stay away from consistent noises and underwater disturbances.

Thanks, that is what I thought, but you never know, there might have been a recent study on the subject.

[roadbowler]

Thanks, that is what I thought, but you never know, there might have been a recent study on the subject.indeed maybe there is. Not that I know of though. Although there is maybe an argument in that if cetaceans use certain routes for migratory feeding they will continue to use this route and as the offshore farms are such a big area they would venture in there and become confused. However, I doubt it as I doubt they strand out of confusion in the first place. Just my opinion though.

[Kenn]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-21846785

What's the point of voting if elected representatives are just going to ignore their electorate and nod things through.
Not a good example to be setting and this is a climate when more people need to be persuaded to the ballot box.


I only said that there was a suspected link not a proven one Rheghead as MOD are sitting tight on any facts and figures that they have come up with.

Not sure on Morecombe Bay but there have been strandings in The Thames although not in any great number but then the estuary is not exactly ideal territory for cetaceans.

[Rheghead]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-21846785

What's the point of voting if elected representatives are just going to ignore their electorate and nod things through.
Not a good example to be setting and this is a climate when more people need to be persuaded to the ballot box.


I only said that there was a suspected link not a proven one Rheghead as MOD are sitting tight on any facts and figures that they have come up with.

Not sure on Morecombe Bay but there have been strandings in The Thames although not in any great number but then the estuary is not exactly ideal territory for cetaceans.

A wild theory does not constitute proof or good reason to stall a £multi-billion programme to decarbonise our economy. Don't blame the MOD, they don't have evidence either. That job is for the save the whale brigade.

Here is a map from 2003, pretty much before any offshore wind turbines were built.

http://www.show.me.uk/dbimages/chunked_image/2005_1033.JPG

[ywindythesecond]

I have no idea if they are building them regardless what people say or think about them. What I was saying, the people that did not object, are your elected councillors, who are supposed to speak on behalf of the people they represent.

In this instance cpt, the Councillors did reflect the wishes of the people. Only single numbers of individuals objected. I believe the strongest objection was from RSPB. I didn't object. At the time for objection I was not so opposed to offshore windfarms as I am now, and anyway, because the notifications do not come through the Highland Council in the way they do for onshore, it is probable that most people including me did not even see it advertised.

[Phill]

Santa Clause is comin', Santa Clause is comin', Santa Clause is comin', Santa Clause is comin', Santa Clause is comin', Santa Clause is comin', Santa Clause is comin', Santa Clause is comin',

[Kenn]

Most of you seem to have missed my main point and that is that councilors were advised not to put forward any objections which to me is tantamount to bribery
.
."If you don't vote for us then we won't promise to invest millions so that your government can at least look as though it is on target with it's carbon emissions."

Chances are that the investment will never be forthcoming as has been shown recently with foreign firms pulling out of alternative energy contracts because the rewards being offered will not allow them to make the sort of profit that they seem to think they are entitled to.

[roadbowler]

A wild theory does not constitute proof or good reason to stall a £multi-billion programme to decarbonise our economy. Don't blame the MOD, they don't have evidence either. That job is for the save the whale brigade.Does the US Navy know something the MOD doesn't? If the Navy didn't have evidence their operations harm and kill marine mammals then why have they recently requested permission to harass, harm and kill 31 million marine mammals in a upcoming 5 year naval program? https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2013/01/31/2013-01808/takes-of-marine-mammals-incidental-to-specified-activities-us-navy-training-and-testing-activities#h-10 and why is "decarbonising our economy" important but, people who are concerned about wildlife are just the "save the whale brigade"?

[Oddquine]

Does the US Navy know something the MOD doesn't? If the Navy didn't have evidence their operations harm and kill marine mammals then why have they recently requested permission to harass, harm and kill 31 million marine mammals in a upcoming 5 year naval program? https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2013/01/31/2013-01808/takes-of-marine-mammals-incidental-to-specified-activities-us-navy-training-and-testing-activities#h-10 and why is "decarbonising our economy" important but, people who are concerned about wildlife are just the "save the whale brigade"?

Because all those who do "wind farms will save the planet" really mean wind farms will save my lifestyle?

[ywindythesecond]

Most of you seem to have missed my main point and that is that councilors were advised not to put forward any objections which to me is tantamount to bribery
.
."If you don't vote for us then we won't promise to invest millions so that your government can at least look as though it is on target with it's carbon emissions."

Chances are that the investment will never be forthcoming as has been shown recently with foreign firms pulling out of alternative energy contracts because the rewards being offered will not allow them to make the sort of profit that they seem to think they are entitled to.


I haven't read the Planning Papers for this development, but the Councillors would not have been "advised" not to object. Rather, the officer's recommendation would have been "Raise no objection". The officer will have followed a rigorous examination and should have made this recommendation against the background of Highland Council's own Development Plan Policies. Just because people don't like a windfarm development is not reason to refuse it. When the Scottish government published its "Scottish Planning Policy" in February 2010, it had removed virtually all reasons for refusal of wind development based on the wishes of the people. Limekiln Windfarm at Reay is current. If every person in Reay wrote in and said they didn't want it, it would have absolutely no weight at all. Objections have to be on sound planning reasons, and there are precious few left. Even before the 2010 Policy was adopted the Scottish Govt Inquiry reporter for Baillie Windfarm acknowledged that a lot of people would be significantly detrimentally affected by the development but ruled that SNP Government generation targets were more important. I think that could be called "collateral damage".

The bribery which is rampant is "Community benefit". Why should people in Reay benefit from Baillie Windfarm when people at Lythmore are condemned to living in an industrial nightmare for 20 years and more with no hope of selling up and moving on?

In recent onshore windfarm Planning meetings, officials have advised to "Raise no Objection" when that was clearly against the Development Plan Policy and indeed in one case at least,Scottish Government Policy. The reason is simple. If the Council objects, it will trigger a Public Inquiry. The Council has a budget of £10,000 for Public Inquiries. The Druim ba Inquiry cost something in the region of £164,000 from memory. The developers have the money, the people have none. Highland Council is between a rock and a hard place.

Fortunately, recently, our councillors are waking up and have decided to object in spite of the officers' recommendation not to.

In the case of the decision today, there were no valid reasons for refusal. There were many good reasons, but not valid.
Incidentally, the Scottish Government will be consulting on its proposals to further ease the progress of windfarm development through planning sometime this spring.

[Rheghead]

Does the US Navy know something the MOD doesn't? If the Navy didn't have evidence their operations harm and kill marine mammals then why have they recently requested permission to harass, harm and kill 31 million marine mammals in a upcoming 5 year naval program? https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2013/01/31/2013-01808/takes-of-marine-mammals-incidental-to-specified-activities-us-navy-training-and-testing-activities#h-10 and why is "decarbonising our economy" important but, people who are concerned about wildlife are just the "save the whale brigade"?

I've nothing against pure research, it is research like this that debunks or supports the wild theories that Lizz deems so important.

There is a strong belief amongst marine biologists that increasing global concentrations of GHGs are upsetting migration patterns of marine animals. So decarbonising the economy is more important. We may not be able to prevent individuals that we get a hopeless emotional attachment towards but we might, just might, save the species.

[Kenn]

I have not propounded any wild theories Rheghead, please don't put words into my mouth.

[Rheghead]

I have not propounded any wild theories Rheghead, please don't put words into my mouth.

Well you linked the possibility of whale strandings to offshore wind farms because of unsubstantiated concerns to strandings resulting from MOD activities, citing evidence that is hidden from public scrutiny. That sounds like a wild theory to me or even a conspiracy theory.

[Kenn]

NO I did n't all I said was that there was some thought as to the fact that underwater noise COULD account for some of the phenomina of beaching due to disorientation.
I am as aware as the next person that once the structures are built they are no threat to wild life and in some cases have provided an extension to the local environment.

[Mystical Potato Head]

I have not propounded any wild theories Rheghead, please don't put words into my mouth.

Oh he's very good at that.

[ywindythesecond]

NO I did n't all I said was that there was some thought as to the fact that underwater noise COULD account for some of the phenomina of beaching due to disorientation.
I am as aware as the next person that once the structures are built they are no threat to wild life and in some cases have provided an extension to the local environment.

I am not a scientist or physicist but I do have an O level in physics, and I know that every action has an equal and opposite reaction. So any action which transmits an underwater noise will have an equal and opposite underwater noise reaction. I don't know what that is, but it will exist. Until we know what that is we should be very careful about making that noise. The precautionary principle, RIP.

[MerlinScot]

Limekiln Windfarm at Reay is current. If every person in Reay wrote in and said they didn't want it, it would have absolutely no weight at all. Objections have to be on sound planning reasons, and there are precious few left. Even before the 2010 Policy was adopted the Scottish Govt Inquiry reporter for Baillie Windfarm acknowledged that a lot of people would be significantly detrimentally affected by the development but ruled that SNP Government generation targets were more important. I think that could be called "collateral damage".


Am I the only one who saw this ad in Thurso Post Office? It is about RAWOG, so people are trying to object, at some degree. I found the link online:

http://www.caithnesswindfarms.co.uk/RAWOG.pdf

[Tubthumper]

Am I the only one who saw this ad in Thurso Post Office? It is about RAWOG, so people are trying to object, at some degree. I found the link online: http://www.caithnesswindfarms.co.uk/RAWOG.pdf
I hope that the meeting doesn't attract the wrong sort of people. For example, I don't think anyone who works at Dounreay or Vulcan should be allowed to join owing to the way they've spread their mess around and the subsidies they've had over the years. Or anyone else who's getting a subsidy, like those with solar panels on their houses, or farmers. People who work offshore might be a bit dodgy as well, as those oil rigs can fairly confuse the whales and dolphins. Folk that use petrol and oil might not be welcome, as they tend to stink up the atmosphere and the drains. Oh, and anyone that drives a car or van, as they have an awkward habit of killing birds. If these types are allowed to join it might seem a bit hypocritical, and the RAWOG might be branded as simply a bunch of NIMBYs.
I hope it goes well. I might even go along.
(MerlinScot; as the roof is apparently falling down on Reay Hall, someone better go along and warn people off from the meeting - are you available?)

[MerlinScot]

I hope that the meeting doesn't attract the wrong sort of people. For example, I don't think anyone who works at Dounreay or Vulcan should be allowed to join owing to the way they've spread their mess around and the subsidies they've had over the years. Or anyone else who's getting a subsidy, like those with solar panels on their houses, or farmers. People who work offshore might be a bit dodgy as well, as those oil rigs can fairly confuse the whales and dolphins. Folk that use petrol and oil might not be welcome, as they tend to stink up the atmosphere and the drains. Oh, and anyone that drives a car or van, as they have an awkward habit of killing birds. If these types are allowed to join it might seem a bit hypocritical, and the RAWOG might be branded as simply a bunch of NIMBYs.
I hope it goes well. I might even go along.
(MerlinScot; as the roof is apparently falling down on Reay Hall, someone better go along and warn people off from the meeting - are you available?)

Nope, I don't want to pollute the communal air using my car for 40 minutes to get to Reay and back to Thurso.
You might want to join, in case you are available to leave your frozen ice-cream location.... I heard you liked to drop by deteriorating halls around Caithness :roll:

If you cut off Dounreay/Vulcan people, RAWOG will only have only flocks of sheep attending. That doesn't seem fair, they can't sign or vote :roll:

[cptdodger]

I read this in Doanalsin's Diary, and this is presumably why the councillor's were "advised" not to object -

"A FAR North councillor has sought assurances that Caithness will enjoy a slice of a predicted jobs boom, after plans to build a giant wind farm - one of the world's largest - off its coast, were backed. Moray Offshore Renewbles Ltd £4.5 billion project in the Outer Moray Firth won the support of Highland councillors in Inverness, yesterday. Members of the north planning applications committee went along with the plans for three wind farms that could result in 339 turbines springing up about 12 miles of Caithness."

So, I would imagine, they are just trying to secure jobs for the area, which I can understand, because the jobs at Dounreay will not last for ever.

Also, the following was on BBC News website -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-21858382

So maybe, rather than marching through Inverness, the people that want to object to this might want to make their way there on the 8th of April.

[mi16]

If we must have masses of wind turbines, then offshore is for sure the place to put them.

[Phill]

If we must have masses of wind turbines, then offshore is for sure the place to put them.
Quite.
I still do not understand the logic in carving up huge chunks of amazing unspoilt landscape, dumping thousands of tonnes of concrete into peat bogs (releasing C02), tarmacking miles of track and then planting huge chunks of metal only to start rusting at some later date, in the name of being 'green' and 'saving the planet'.

I'm still not convinced we understand the damage were possibly doing offshore but better there in huge swathes rather than peppered all over the landscape.

Better still, build wind farms next to the cities that require the power, now why don't we do that?
Driving down the M56 & M53 the other day in 'Cheshire' (in quite good winds), in between the chemical plants and industrial sites there is huge swathes of open farmland that seem to be devoid of windmills. Why are they not there??

Also near where I am staying for now there is a renewable energy plant in the pipeline, against massive (and I mean MASSIVE) opposition. Why? Because house values will be affected! More NIMBYs basically.

If these windymills are so damned good put them next to every town & city that needs energy and use all the brownfield sites. Logic tells you that this has to be the best option for maximising the energy output.

[roadbowler]

Quite.I still do not understand the logic in carving up huge chunks of amazing unspoilt landscape, dumping thousands of tonnes of concrete into peat bogs (releasing C02), tarmacking miles of track and then planting huge chunks of metal only to start rusting at some later date, in the name of being 'green' and 'saving the planet'.I'm still not convinced we understand the damage were possibly doing offshore but better there in huge swathes rather than peppered all over the landscape.Better still, build wind farms next to the cities that require the power, now why don't we do that?Driving down the M56 & M53 the other day in 'Cheshire' (in quite good winds), in between the chemical plants and industrial sites there is huge swathes of open farmland that seem to be devoid of windmills. Why are they not there??Also near where I am staying for now there is a renewable energy plant in the pipeline, against massive (and I mean MASSIVE) opposition. Why? Because house values will be affected! More NIMBYs basically.If these windymills are so damned good put them next to every town & city that needs energy and use all the brownfield sites. Logic tells you that this has to be the best option for maximising the energy output. won't let me good rep you but, I agree with all of that except the very first bit. I don't think we should be exploiting the sea to produce electricity at that scale or perhaps any scale. We going to have a load of tidal turbines in the pentland firth and that mess of wind turbines in the North Sea. There's nothing "green" about it any which way you look at it. If we need to expand into the sea to support our electricity habit we are using too much of it. Why is there never any mention of investing money into researching alternative free energy technologies?

[changilass]

Lets just go the whole hog. Knock down all the houses and other buildings, let the landscape be free of farming and lets all live in caves, that way there will be no blots on the landscape. :lol:

[cptdodger]

BBC 2 now, a programme called The Planners, talking about windfarms !

[changilass]

Loving the guy with the castle saying he would object to anything in the area that he classed as obtrusive.

You could see his castle for miles around lol.

[cptdodger]

Loving the guy with the castle saying he would object to anything in the area that he classed as obtrusive.

You could see his castle for miles around lol.

It just shows you though, these people that were against the windfarm had raised £10,000 to get a solicitor to fight their case, maybe that does make a difference. I meant to say as well, I felt really sorry for that guy that was getting kicked off his farm, at 52, he's going to find it tough starting again.

[changilass]

I would have kicked out the housing one and allowed the turbines, poor farmer should have more right to his life than the nimby's had to a view.

[cptdodger]

I totally agree, it certainly puts it into perspective, people complaining about a few turbines.

[ywindythesecond]

I totally agree, it certainly puts it into perspective, people complaining about a few turbines.

cpt. I couldn't be sure what post you were answering . You should use the "Reply with quote button" so people know which post you are replying to. While you are typing your response other posts can come in between and it is difficult to relate your post to the correct earlier one by someone else.

[cptdodger]

cpt. I couldn't be sure what post you were answering . You should use the "Reply with quote button" so people know which post you are replying to. While you are typing your response other posts can come in between and it is difficult to relate your post to the correct earlier one by someone else.

Well, if you read the previous posts from changilass, I think it is quite clear who's post I was replying to. And as I have not put anybody on "ignore", there are no posts inbetween mine and changilass's.

[secrets in symmetry]

I am not a scientist or physicist but I do have an O level in physics, and I know that every action has an equal and opposite reaction. So any action which transmits an underwater noise will have an equal and opposite underwater noise reaction. I don't know what that is, but it will exist. Until we know what that is we should be very careful about making that noise. The precautionary principle, RIP.Lol!

That could be the most revealing - and the worst - post you have ever made on this forum lol!