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neepnipper
08-Jan-07, 11:17
Our dog's due for the snip tomorrow.

Don't know why but I'm worried sick about it, had our other two dogs done when they were younger without any problems.

I've already been on the phone to the vet today for reassurance and I know it's much better for the dog to be done as we're not going to breed from him.

Help! Please tell me I'm doing the right thing. Hubbie doesn't want him done and I don't think it's a man thing because we've had the others done, he says it makes them dopey but I don't think that's true.

Are there any good reasons for not going through with it?

Jo.b
08-Jan-07, 11:46
If he's got no medical problems why do it? I'm sorry I agree with your hubbie. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.;)

newpark
08-Jan-07, 12:58
We had our bitch and our dog both snipped and they are both very healthy and it has not affected them in anyway apart from the obvious lol.

buggyracer
08-Jan-07, 18:19
why get it done?, there is no proof that it helps the dog in any way and if hes of a sound enough nature whats the point? i would never consider getting any of my male dogs done.

its ok saying you dont want to breed from him but what will he gain from getting it done?

Liz
08-Jan-07, 19:13
Neepnipper as I have posted before I am very pro neutering since one of my dogs needed an emergency castration when he was older due to prostatitis which would never have happened had he been neutered.

I know Buggyracer does not agree with neutering as he said there is no evidence that it is beneficial but I did a lot of research before getting my next dog neutered and the overall concensus was that it was better for them as it prevents prostate problems in males and ovarian problems (mostly mammary tumours) in females.
Re it making them 'dopey' this one of the many myths which is put about by those are are against neutering.
The only 'downside' I have noticed is a slight tendency to weight gain but this is easily dealt with.

Is there any reason why you are worried about this dog? Mind you it is perfectly reasonable to be worried about any op.

This will be one of those issues which not everyone will agree with but you just do what you feel is best for the health of your dog.
I cannot think it can be good for a dog's mental health to have all those hormones surging around it's body with no outlet!!!! Well maybe apart from someone's leg!
If you have the homeopathic remedy Arnica that is really good to give before and after surgery as it helps with bruising and also Aconite is really good for calming.

Good luck whatever you decide!

blondscot
08-Jan-07, 21:23
Hi
I have 2 male dogs one done and one not. when i got my first male i never really thought about it and seeing how he is now twelve i wouldna think about doing it but the young one i got done, there are so pros and cons for both but i feel that even if you have no intention of breeding then why keep them there!! It can save from serious health problems in later life. I know of several dogs who have had to have emergency ops due to problems that a neutered dog would not have so, this stops this from occuring. Its easy to give your opinion on this but i do understand how you will be worrying about the op but a little extra tlc when he gets home and he will be as right as rain in no time

buggyracer
08-Jan-07, 23:40
none of our dogs have ever been neuterd and none have had health problems, and none try to get loving with with any legs, and if they did a stern no would be enough to stop them from doing it again.

at the end of the day neenipper its YOUR dog and YOU alone feed and look after it so its your decision and you shouldnt feel pressured or swayed as to what you do or dont do.

good luck whatever you decide.

neepnipper
09-Jan-07, 19:53
Thank you for your comments and your pm Liz.

He is now home from the vets and seems fine, sleeping it off.

Now all I have to do is keep him on a lead for the next ten days until the stitches come out! He just loves running free, hubbie made our dogs what we call the 'play pen', about half an acre all fenced in with balls of all descriptions, frisbees, tugs and even a tunnel! He's going to miss playing in there. Anyway time flies so he'll soon be racing around as usual!

Oddquine
09-Jan-07, 20:00
none of our dogs have ever been neuterd and none have had health problems, and none try to get loving with with any legs, and if they did a stern no would be enough to stop them from doing it again.

How old are they?

My bitch was 13 when she had to have an op for pyometra, because she had never been neutered and was extremely ill.

connieb19
09-Jan-07, 20:05
all fenced in with balls of all descriptions,
:lol: :lol: great pun lol!!!

fred
09-Jan-07, 21:58
its ok saying you dont want to breed from him but what will he gain from getting it done?

Well sometimes a young dog's fancy turns to thoughts of other things and if he takes a fancy to that pretty little dog on the other side of the hill he aint gonna give a damn if you want him to breed or not he'll be off and chances are he'll be crawling back three days later on his eyebrows.

buggyracer
09-Jan-07, 23:11
How old are they?

My bitch was 13 when she had to have an op for pyometra, because she had never been neutered and was extremely ill.


oldest now 12, but having owned dogs who are no longer with us, speaking in past tense also.

neepnipper
09-Jan-07, 23:12
:lol: :lol: great pun lol!!!

The 'balls' pun was not intentional!!

buggyracer
09-Jan-07, 23:19
Well sometimes a young dog's fancy turns to thoughts of other things and if he takes a fancy to that pretty little dog on the other side of the hill he aint gonna give a damn if you want him to breed or not he'll be off and chances are he'll be crawling back three days later on his eyebrows.

then you are a irresponsible owner, you shouldnt let any dog roam free?

To me its different why i keep my dogs intact, i work my dogs both gun dogs and terriers, and i also plan to show some in the future, the only reason i would breed from a dog was if it had something to offer the breed be it firstly working abillity or secondlly asthetically (sp) basically if it didnt work well no matter how good it looked i wouldnt breed from it, and i think it is nice to have a line or strain of dogs you can trace back, but only when you have bred from them for the right reasons, firstly for yourself or freinds for yours/there uses providing they are worth breeding from, not as a money maker or just for the sake of it, this is why many breeds are ruined.

edited to add, glad the dog came through it ok, im sure he will be back to his normal self in no time.

fred
09-Jan-07, 23:32
then you are a irresponsible owner, you shouldnt let any dog roam free?


Irresponsible?

My dogs are neutered.

buggyracer
09-Jan-07, 23:35
Irresponsible?

My dogs are neutered.

so that means it ok for them to roam free?

fred
09-Jan-07, 23:51
so that means it ok for them to roam free?

That means they're not so likely to want to, or nearly so determined.

buggyracer
09-Jan-07, 23:54
That means they're not so likely to want to, or nearly so determined.

ok fred lol

Liz
10-Jan-07, 14:25
Thank you for your comments and your pm Liz.

He is now home from the vets and seems fine, sleeping it off.

Now all I have to do is keep him on a lead for the next ten days until the stitches come out! He just loves running free, hubbie made our dogs what we call the 'play pen', about half an acre all fenced in with balls of all descriptions, frisbees, tugs and even a tunnel! He's going to miss playing in there. Anyway time flies so he'll soon be racing around as usual!

Glad he is okay.:D

Sapphire2803
11-Jan-07, 22:35
I need to get our border collie done. I've been putting it off because he's so timid (he came from Balmore) He's fine at home, but when I take him somewhere strange he goes straight back to being the nervous wreck that he was when we first brought him home. Can anyone recommend a vet? and how much does it cost to have a dog neutered these days?

neepnipper
11-Jan-07, 23:13
Had mine done in Wick vets, price depends on the weight of the dog, it cost me £79 and he weighs 16.6 kg.

To have a bitch snipped is about £140, I think that's if she weighs between 15kg and 25kg.

Liz
12-Jan-07, 15:07
I need to get our border collie done. I've been putting it off because he's so timid (he came from Balmore) He's fine at home, but when I take him somewhere strange he goes straight back to being the nervous wreck that he was when we first brought him home. Can anyone recommend a vet? and how much does it cost to have a dog neutered these days?

I would recommend giving him the homeopathic remedy Aconite along with some Rescue Remedy for his 'nerves' and Arnica to help reduce any bruising.

It would also be worth taking him along to the Vet just for a couple of visits to let him get used to being there so that the first time he is taken he isn't just left as this could really put him off going to the Vets in the future.

Good luck!

gary.b
12-Jan-07, 15:51
I need to get our border collie done. I've been putting it off because he's so timid (he came from Balmore) He's fine at home, but when I take him somewhere strange he goes straight back to being the nervous wreck that he was when we first brought him home. Can anyone recommend a vet? and how much does it cost to have a dog neutered these days?

Emma, why does your dog need doing? Has it been recommended by a vet? I have kept dogs all my life, pets and working, I can't understand this latest trend to neuter dogs without a medical reason and I'm surprised the local vets are carrying out these ops, must be a right good earner.lol.

buggyracer
12-Jan-07, 17:49
Emma, why does your dog need doing? Has it been recommended by a vet? I have kept dogs all my life, pets and working, I can't understand this latest trend to neuter dogs without a medical reason and I'm surprised the local vets are carrying out these ops, must be a right good earner.lol.

well said gary, propeganda and spin, £££££,s in the vets pockets and for what, a whole lot of maybes or ifs nothing concrete.

henry20
12-Jan-07, 18:03
I got my dog from Balmore too and was advised to neuter him - it never cost me anything as it was included in the fee I paid for my dog when I got him. I can see why centres like the SSPCA would do this - they see numerous unwanted pets come in on a daily basis and if neutering them is the only way they can see to limit any more, then it should be done. Not everyone is responsible - otherwise there would be no need for SSPCA to be in existance. Unwanted pets have to be bred somewhere. As far as I am aware, all cats are also recommended to be neutered.

If my dog liked cats I would have one and it would be neutered and I fully intend to get a cat or 2 once his day is past - I will be going back to balmore to get them as last time I was there, they had at least 20 kittens that were 'unwanted'. Had the cats been neutered, this would not be the case. [evil]

gary.b
12-Jan-07, 18:05
I did have a GSD who had prostate problems when he was 10 years old and had to be castrated, but I still wouldn't had put him through an operation when he was young "just in case".
To me thats just messing with nature, where does it stop?

gary.b
12-Jan-07, 18:24
I got my dog from Balmore too and was advised to neuter him - it never cost me anything as it was included in the fee I paid for my dog when I got him. I can see why centres like the SSPCA would do this - they see numerous unwanted pets come in on a daily basis and if neutering them is the only way they can see to limit any more, then it should be done. Not everyone is responsible - otherwise there would be no need for SSPCA to be in existance. Unwanted pets have to be bred somewhere. As far as I am aware, all cats are also recommended to be neutered.

If my dog liked cats I would have one and it would be neutered and I fully intend to get a cat or 2 once his day is past - I will be going back to balmore to get them as last time I was there, they had at least 20 kittens that were 'unwanted'. Had the cats been neutered, this would not be the case. [evil]

With respect Henry cats are a different issue as they roam freely.
If rescue centres only rehome their dogs to people that they view to be responsible then why is there a need to neuter the dogs?

henry20
12-Jan-07, 18:37
I'm a responsible dog owner, but it didn't stop someone opening my garden gate so that he could get out. I know it wasn't me that left it open as it was a gate that was never used - when I renewed my fence, I did away with the gate.

However, I do accept your point and I would hope that everyone that rehomed any animal would be responsible, but if people had been responsible in the first place, no pets would need rehomed. I do not know the plus sides or negative sides to neutering and have a feeling that it was a requirement rather than an option when I got my dog. I was also led to believe (not by SSPCA) that neutering calmed dogs down, but I can assure you, neutering my dog had no affect whatsoever. I must say though, that if I had a bitch, I doubt I'd get her neutered as I know its a more complicated process. None of my family have their dogs neutered - between them they have 4 and none have had any problems - male or female.

gary.b
12-Jan-07, 18:41
Nice one Henry, glad you got the fence sorted.

fred
12-Jan-07, 20:33
I did have a GSD who had prostate problems when he was 10 years old and had to be castrated, but I still wouldn't had put him through an operation when he was young "just in case".
To me thats just messing with nature, where does it stop?

It's keeping dogs as pets where the messing with nature starts, if we didn't do that there would be no need to neuter.

Dogs have feelings too, they have instincts, they have urges and they get fustrated just the same as humans do. Nature has bred into every dog capable of breeding the urge to breed, to pass on their genes to the next generation, that is what life is all about.

If you don't intend to let a dog get rid of its pent up fustrations the natural way then it is only kind to have them removed surgically.

gary.b
12-Jan-07, 20:46
Fred, as I said I've been around dogs all my life, I've never known an adult dog to get sexually fustrated except obviously when he's near a bitch that's in season and thats easily sorted by removing one of the dogs.
If we're going humanise dogs by saying they have feelings, how undignified would it be for him to walk around with no balls.

buggyracer
12-Jan-07, 21:01
It's keeping dogs as pets where the messing with nature starts, if we didn't do that there would be no need to neuter.

Dogs have feelings too, they have instincts, they have urges and they get fustrated just the same as humans do. Nature has bred into every dog capable of breeding the urge to breed, to pass on their genes to the next generation, that is what life is all about.

If you don't intend to let a dog get rid of its pent up fustrations the natural way then it is only kind to have them removed surgically.

Fred as you say, keeping dogs as pets is messing with nature?, then thousands of years ago when man first domesticated dogs, were there people like you running around cutting there bits of? No!. So the wee experiment of messing with nature has stood the test of time, without the vets help??

fred
12-Jan-07, 22:38
Fred, as I said I've been around dogs all my life, I've never known an adult dog to get sexually fustrated except obviously when he's near a bitch that's in season and thats easily sorted by removing one of the dogs.
If we're going humanise dogs by saying they have feelings, how undignified would it be for him to walk around with no balls.

It isn't humanising a dog to say he has feelings, all living things have feelings or they wouldn't be alive.

You've been around dogs all your life and never seen two male dogs fight?

fred
12-Jan-07, 23:00
Fred as you say, keeping dogs as pets is messing with nature?, then thousands of years ago when man first domesticated dogs, were there people like you running around cutting there bits of? No!. So the wee experiment of messing with nature has stood the test of time, without the vets help??

As long as man has been domesticating animals he has been castrating them. Dogs, cattle, horses, sheep, humans, especially humans. It's nothing new.

gary.b
12-Jan-07, 23:26
It isn't humanising a dog to say he has feelings, all living things have feelings or they wouldn't be alive.

You've been around dogs all your life and never seen two male dogs fight?

And what has that got to do with neutering, so castrated dogs don't fight??

buggyracer
12-Jan-07, 23:59
It isn't humanising a dog to say he has feelings, all living things have feelings or they wouldn't be alive.

You've been around dogs all your life and never seen two male dogs fight?

Two bitches will fight a lot more than two dogs will.

buggyracer
13-Jan-07, 00:01
As long as man has been domesticating animals he has been castrating them. Dogs, cattle, horses, sheep, humans, especially humans. It's nothing new.

So you are pro docking fred? do you agree with docking dogs tails?

that question goes out to all the others who are pro neutoring?

there was a tail docking thread a few months ago, it would be interesting to have a look back and see peoples opinions on it?

fred
13-Jan-07, 00:26
And what has that got to do with neutering, so castrated dogs don't fight??

Not nearly as much as those which haven't been castrated, they don't have a load of testosterone floating around in their bloodstreams.

fred
13-Jan-07, 00:29
So you are pro docking fred? do you agree with docking dogs tails?


No, I'm against docking dogs tails.

Docking a dogs tail is purely cosmetic whereas there are several sound reasons for neutering.

fred
13-Jan-07, 00:35
Two bitches will fight a lot more than two dogs will.

Which two?

buggyracer
13-Jan-07, 01:29
No, I'm against docking dogs tails.

Docking a dogs tail is purely cosmetic whereas there are several sound reasons for neutering.

no it is not if the dog is a working breed it has a very important need to be done, you see this is where you have it all wrong, you would cut a dogs testicalls off at the age of 8-10 months with out a second thought yet find it unacceptable to shorten its tail when it is still a few days old? I know which one id prefer, i just think the trauma a dog will go through unimaginable.

both reasons are for there owners benifits, yet you find one ok but not the other, smacks of double standards to me, show me where it states catagorically that neutering is scientifically proven to be benificial?

buggyracer
13-Jan-07, 01:31
Which two?

any two? its is common knowledge that two bitches are more dificult to keep than two dogs.

North Rhins
13-Jan-07, 01:42
Isn’t it funny how every thread that ‘Fred’ becomes involved in very quickly becomes confrontational? He really is the fountain of all knowledge. From world politics to docking dogs tails there is nothing that our ‘Fred’ does not know about.
To get back to Sapphire 2803. My credentials, been involved with dogs for nearly fifty years. That doesn’t mean by any stretch of the imagination that I know everything, ‘cos I don’t. However, having read your thread I honestly cannot see any medical reason to have you dog castrated. It certainly won’t make any difference to his nervous disposition. I would earnestly suggest that you seek some help from a homeopathic practitioner. I have used these remedies on my dogs with some great results. Please think twice before putting your dog through an unnecessary procedure.

P.S. If you read this Fred, you don’t agree with tail docking, what about a working Springer or Cocker? What about dew claws, should they be left on a working dog?

Liz
13-Jan-07, 01:49
Gary.b and Buggyracer you are entitled to your opinions re neutering but, whether you mean to or not, you are coming across as being completely right in this matter and the 'rest of us' who are pro neutering as being completely wrong!

Those of us who neuter our dogs are doing so as we feel that it is the best thing to do and if you speak to any vet I am sure they will tell you that many illnesses can be avoided by doing so.
Having seen how ill one of my dogs was after needing an emergency castration (we thought were going to lose him) I would much rather neuter a young healthy dog who will recover quickly than risk that my dog may or may not develop one of these diseases. One of my neighbours dogs had to be put to sleep due to developing a mammary tumour and this would not have happened had she been spayed.
Many people who have genetic diseases are choosing to remove parts of their body as they are at risk of developing certain diseases so that's all we as responsible pet owners are doing.

It does also lessen the chance of dogs running off in search of bitches.
Gary.b you said this can be avoided by 'removing one of the dogs'. How can you do that if it belongs to a neighbour?!!!!
As far as them feeling undignified 'walking around with no balls' I think you are transferring how you would feel onto the dog!!!!

I don't think we are going to agree on this subject and, at the end of the day, pet owners must make the decision that they feel is right and not be pressurised into doing something they are not happy with.

We all care for our dogs and, at the end of they day, that is what matters.

North Rhins
13-Jan-07, 01:59
Liz, I agree totally when it comes to spaying a bitch if you do not intend to breed from her. The percentages of unsprayed maiden bitches developing cancer is very high. As for neutering a dog I’m not so sure. There is a lot of myth surrounding the subject, the classic is the dog was castrated to ‘quieten him down.’ I’ve got the scars to dispel that old chestnut.
As you quite rightly say we all love our dogs and wouldn’t hurt them for the world.

carasmam
13-Jan-07, 07:33
any two? its is common knowledge that two bitches are more dificult to keep than two dogs.
Sorry buggyracer I have to disagree with you there. From my experience it is the other way about :eek:

gary.b
13-Jan-07, 08:48
Not nearly as much as those which haven't been castrated, they don't have a load of testosterone floating around in their bloodstreams.

lol, rubbish Fred, thanks for the evenings entertainment, I'll ride off back into the sunset, where I belong......................

fred
13-Jan-07, 11:51
Gary.b you said this can be avoided by 'removing one of the dogs'. How can you do that if it belongs to a neighbour?!!!!


In my experience you'd need a crowbar.

buggyracer
13-Jan-07, 12:23
In my experience you'd need a crowbar.

again fred keep your dogs under control if they can get out to your neighbours dogs, what else of your neighbours can they get out to cats, rabbits or kids? doesent bare thinking of!

buggyracer
13-Jan-07, 12:27
Sorry buggyracer I have to disagree with you there. From my experience it is the other way about :eek:

you will always have exceptions to the rule, but generally two bitches are worse to live together, at the end of the day same sex dogs should never be left alone male or female, always better to go with opposite sexs if you are kenneling them together. (i say kenneling loosely, anywhere they stay together)

buggyracer
13-Jan-07, 12:29
Gary.b and Buggyracer you are entitled to your opinions re neutering but, whether you mean to or not, you are coming across as being completely right in this matter and the 'rest of us' who are pro neutering as being completely wrong!

Those of us who neuter our dogs are doing so as we feel that it is the best thing to do and if you speak to any vet I am sure they will tell you that many illnesses can be avoided by doing so.
Having seen how ill one of my dogs was after needing an emergency castration (we thought were going to lose him) I would much rather neuter a young healthy dog who will recover quickly than risk that my dog may or may not develop one of these diseases. One of my neighbours dogs had to be put to sleep due to developing a mammary tumour and this would not have happened had she been spayed.
Many people who have genetic diseases are choosing to remove parts of their body as they are at risk of developing certain diseases so that's all we as responsible pet owners are doing.

It does also lessen the chance of dogs running off in search of bitches.
Gary.b you said this can be avoided by 'removing one of the dogs'. How can you do that if it belongs to a neighbour?!!!!
As far as them feeling undignified 'walking around with no balls' I think you are transferring how you would feel onto the dog!!!!

I don't think we are going to agree on this subject and, at the end of the day, pet owners must make the decision that they feel is right and not be pressurised into doing something they are not happy with.

We all care for our dogs and, at the end of they day, that is what matters.

Sorry liz i wont appologise for something i feel strongly about, and nobody is questioning your animal husbandry, i guess if we all thought the same we wouldnt have forums like this :)

fred
13-Jan-07, 12:42
no it is not if the dog is a working breed it has a very important need to be done, you see this is where you have it all wrong, you would cut a dogs testicalls off at the age of 8-10 months with out a second thought yet find it unacceptable to shorten its tail when it is still a few days old? I know which one id prefer, i just think the trauma a dog will go through unimaginable.

both reasons are for there owners benifits, yet you find one ok but not the other, smacks of double standards to me, show me where it states catagorically that neutering is scientifically proven to be benificial?

God gave dogs tails for a lot of reasons, for balance, for communication, they are very useful parts of a dog's anatomy.

God gave dogs reproductive organs for one reason and one reason only and if they're never going to need them they're better off without them.

Don't take my word for it, ask any vet.

fred
13-Jan-07, 13:13
Isn’t it funny how every thread that ‘Fred’ becomes involved in very quickly becomes confrontational? He really is the fountain of all knowledge. From world politics to docking dogs tails there is nothing that our ‘Fred’ does not know about.


It's just that I deal in facts and common sense not myth and wishfull thinking.

As what I'm talking about.

fred
13-Jan-07, 13:23
again fred keep your dogs under control if they can get out to your neighbours dogs, what else of your neighbours can they get out to cats, rabbits or kids? doesent bare thinking of!

My dogs are under control.

There are an awful lot of dogs which arn't though and remember, the only people who never make mistakes are people who never do anything and it only takes one mistake, one slip, one second when your attention is on something else when it should have been on your dog.

Better safe than sorry I say.

Liz
13-Jan-07, 14:00
Sorry liz i wont appologise for something i feel strongly about, and nobody is questioning your animal husbandry, i guess if we all thought the same we wouldnt have forums like this :)

Nor would I expect you to apologise! I totally respect your decision not to neuter as I know you, and Buggyracer, care for your dogs very much.
The problem is when people don't neuter and their dogs wander so are 'spreading their love' around!:lol:

If we all thought the same it would be very peaceful but very dull world.

At least this has been quite a civilsed debate hasn't it? Well so far!

fred
13-Jan-07, 17:02
The problem is when people don't neuter and their dogs wander so are 'spreading their love' around!:lol:


http://www.graven-images.org.uk/temp/dalm.jpg

Liz
13-Jan-07, 19:25
http://www.graven-images.org.uk/temp/dalm.jpg


Love it!!!!:lol:

Sapphire2803
14-Jan-07, 02:07
Emma, why does your dog need doing? Has it been recommended by a vet? I have kept dogs all my life, pets and working, I can't understand this latest trend to neuter dogs without a medical reason and I'm surprised the local vets are carrying out these ops, must be a right good earner.lol.

We also have a GSD bitch. First sign of her going into season and we have to separate them. He ends up sitting outside her kennel whining. :~(
He's a bit of a wanderer as well, given half a chance and I'm hoping that having him neutered might stop him being so determined to get out.

Jo.b
14-Jan-07, 18:12
Before you have it done ask your vet about a tardac (not sure if thats the correct spelling) injection which simulates castration and last for about 4-6 weeks just to see if neutering will make any difference to his behaviour, it could save you some money.