View Full Version : The Scottish problem
secrets in symmetry
09-Mar-13, 02:59
The Scottish problem is the promotion and preservation of mediocrity by means of a widespread and sustained policy of gross egalitarianism.
Alice in Blunderland
09-Mar-13, 09:31
The Scottish problem is the promotion and preservation of mediocrity by means of a widespread and sustained policy of gross egalitarianism.
errr you been too long enjoying the delights of the bar waiting on Alice to buy you a dram :eek:
The Scottish problem is the promotion and preservation of mediocrity by means of a widespread and sustained policy of gross egalitarianism.
posted at 01:59 am.....guess you had a good night out last night then....
While we're on the subject, did I miss the memo that said Scotland would get all (or indeed any) of the NS oil revenue. There seems to be an assumption (Held by the SNP amonst others) that it will.
The UK gov. is accused of waging a number of bloody wars in various parts of the world to secure oil supplies, It seems very unlikely to me they would just give their own away. :confused
macadamia
09-Mar-13, 12:59
Gross egalitarianism is best pursued by offering an equality of misery: seeking the lowest common denominator and then "aspiring" to it. That's why, when the Scots had a chance to worship God, their God was a miserable, tight-lipped and petulant authoritarian who thought all to be sinners, and doomed. It's no wonder the great P.G. Wodehouse muttered words to the effect that it was very easy to distinguish a Scotsman from a ray of sunshine. The SNP are doing their best to keep the legend going: 5 press releases a day moaning about everyone else being rubbish, and attracting the most appalling willy-wavers and plastic Bravehearts with the debating skills of a slug. And we've still got over a year of this.
Incidentally, I want to see an Independent Scotland, but only if it grows up and starts telling the truth to its own residents! There is still time.
secrets in symmetry
09-Mar-13, 14:12
Yes, equality of misery. That's the best possible outcome for Scotland if we were to go with secession.
After that, it gets worse....
I am sitting in The AECC at the Outdoors Scotland Exhibition with some of the BEST scotland has to offer. Mediocrity???? Where? Food? Some of the best produce, whisky? Outdoor Activities? Looking around I dont see mediocrity. I see fantastic opportunities, fantastic produce, businesses investing in Scotland. Its fantastic! There is nothing mediocre here. Talk about doom and gloom and yet today the news is that Scotland could be the third richest country in the EU.bwe are clearly doomed.
Independence gives us the opportunity to do that. Its up to us what we do with it. One thing is for sure... If we buy into SIS's too wee, too, poor and too stupid oh.... And too mediocre then we will never achieve anything and SIS and the others can suck their lips and say "i told you so".
As for "equality of misery"... Well unsurprisingly I think that is nonsense too, however even THAT might be better than what we have now which is misery for the poor the weak and the vulnerable and I'm alright Jack for the rich, bankers, millionaires and those claiming expenses from the public purse.
Scotland has much to celebrate now. Much to improve and change but much to be proud of. With Revenue raised in scotland, being spent on Scottish priorities decided by a Scottish Government elected by the Scottish electorate we will have the power to turn our country into the 3rd richest in the EU and grow an equality of opportunity which even the poorest and most disadvantaged in our society can benefit from.
.........but only if it grows up and starts telling the truth to its own residents! There is still time.Sadly, there lies the problem!
What.... Truth like the way the Better Together campaign interpreted the leaked document we saw this week?
John Little
09-Mar-13, 18:29
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad118/johnlittle21/image.jpg
John I refer you to the other thread on state pensions. The link to the document which was leaked is there. You can judge for yourself. Oh and I dont apologise for posting this link to yesterdays Scotsman as it is relevant on both threads
http://m.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/opinion/comment/george-kerevan-an-argument-that-simply-runs-out-of-currency-1-2825295
"However, what the (leaked) document actually says is very different from the spin put on it by the No campaign. Quite the opposite in fact."
John Little
09-Mar-13, 18:48
John I refer you to the other thread on state pensions. The link to the document which was leaked is there. You can judge for yourself.
I have read it.
My point is that all the national newspapers seem to have reached the same conclusions.
Only the Nationalists are telling the truth.
Very alarming.
personally for me, independance isn't an issue as i will go with it if it happens and won't complain if it doesn't but i wonder what all these anti-independance brigade members will do supposing, just supposing mind you, that independance actually happens? will you all rage quit the country, will you stay here and whinge or will you fly the coop for pastures elsewhere?.....
macadamia
09-Mar-13, 20:15
No, if it all happens, we will stay, if only out of curiosity knowing that
a) However much is borrowed or granted, living standards will immediately improve as a matter of pride.
b) Similarly, no taxes will rise during the honeymoon period.
c) The first few years will be magic, the next long years tragic as the borrowing has to be repaid, and the income dwindles.
d) I'll be long since planted, but my great-grandchildren will see the return of a chastened nation to the mother ship.
But - luckily - a few more bombshells like this week's pensions debacle will mean we'll all survive this period of bombast and posturing, and carry on carrying on.....
secrets in symmetry
09-Mar-13, 22:09
personally for me, independance isn't an issue as i will go with it if it happens and won't complain if it doesn't but i wonder what all these anti-independance brigade members will do supposing, just supposing mind you, that independance actually happens? will you all rage quit the country, will you stay here and whinge or will you fly the coop for pastures elsewhere?.....I have made it clear on several occasions that I will leave if the secessionists win, and it's getting to the stage that I might even enjoy watching it all go wrong. After all, the secessionists will have brought disaster upon themselves.
secrets in symmetry
10-Mar-13, 03:11
I think we've seen this week (in Holyrood, on this forum, and elsewhere) that the Secessionists are the Masters of Mediocrity.
Do you want your Country (Scotland) to be Mediocre? If so, support the Secessionists!
Do you want Scotland to be ruled by the Mendacious twittering classes? If so, support the Secessionists!
Do you want to live in an independent state that will forever be making spending cuts as its economy continues to falter? You know what comes next....
You know SiS you talked about Alex Salmond not taking you on in a debate when all you do is make "pronouncements" like a god you dont believe in. If Alex Salmond DID indeed run away from you, I rather think it wAs because you shouted your soundbites at him whilst wearing a sandwich board saying "The end of the world is Nigh ". You sit in judgement and offer no support for your frankly sometimes slightly bizarre and egotistical posts, across this subject and others. You clearly have a sense of humour but I wonder whether you are slightly unhinged and maybe should see a Dr.
Mediocrity, mendacity and economic austerity is where we are now as part of the Uk. Mediocre government who are rubbishing the lives of millions of hard working lower earners, disabled and poor people.
Who lie almost with every breath they take, the interpretation of the leaked document, the speech David Cameron made which was refuted by the OBR, the comments they attribute to ministers from other EU countries which then are refuted by those ministers: Chris Huhne, Lord Rennard, and on and on we go in a codemnable dance of mendacity or lies.
The Gers results show Scotland is doing better than the rest of the UK, the Herald runs an article today about a new oil boom, there is no evidence that businesses are failing to invest in Scotland because of fears over Independence, the news yesterday was that it was possible that Scotland would be the 3 rd richest country in the EU.
Sooooooo. Lets see, your favourite words last night would seem to apply to your posts.... Mediocre. Mendacious nonsense. I started this thread with a post which said "utter rubbish" and your posts have continued in the same vein.
secrets in symmetry
10-Mar-13, 15:24
Good - no rational person disagrees with me. :cool:
The deluded secessionists would lead to a bankrupt mediocre Scotland that no-one would want to live in.
I won't move to the North of England because I don't want to get tangled up with impoverished refugees heading south to look for work and a better life.
Good - no rational person disagrees with me. :cool:The deluded secessionists would lead to a bankrupt mediocre Scotland that no-one would want to live in.Just to clarify are you calling me irrational and deluded or just making a general observation? Im never entirely sure SIS so I thought I would check.
I won't move to the North of England because I don't want to get tangled up with impoverished refugees heading south to look for work and a better life.Utter Rubbish!
Tubthumper
10-Mar-13, 22:08
So you're saying we're mediocre? While we're still part of the Union? Hmmm... I don't think I like that.
What is it I smell - is it fear? Is it arrogance?
RagnarRocks
10-Mar-13, 22:24
I won't move to the North of England because I don't want to get tangled up with impoverished refugees heading south to look for work and a better life.[/QUOTE]Well don't think it's any better down south with property prices sky high, infrastructure creaking and if you want to compete for jobs well you'll find most of the new European countries well represented along with just about everyone else.
piratelassie
10-Mar-13, 23:31
SIS are you a member of the bitter together mob selling big wooden spoons for stirring the ----.
Good - no rational person disagrees with me. :cool:
The deluded secessionists would lead to a bankrupt mediocre Scotland that no-one would want to live in.
I won't move to the North of England because I don't want to get tangled up with impoverished refugees heading south to look for work and a better life.
hear hear, me no like alex salmond but............................................... .................................................. .
secrets in symmetry
10-Mar-13, 23:50
Well don't think it's any better down south with property prices sky high, infrastructure creaking and if you want to compete for jobs well you'll find most of the new European countries well represented along with just about everyone else.Property prices aren't high in the North of England. But that's not the point... Economic refugees from the secessionists' Scotland would head towards anywhere in England in the hope of getting a job, and having a better life.
MerlinScot
11-Mar-13, 22:19
I won't move to the North of England because I don't want to get tangled up with impoverished refugees heading south to look for work and a better life.
I hope I will though. I have been already through this mess once and the result was we had to get the h*** out of the country. Either way, a disruption is going to happen, changes are going to happen. Scotland, for better or for worse, won't be the same. For someone who decided to come to Scotland and liked it the way it is...well, people who stay will decide but I dearly hope I won't be part of the electoral roll at the time of the referendum :eek:
MerlinScot
11-Mar-13, 22:23
Well don't think it's any better down south with property prices sky high, infrastructure creaking and if you want to compete for jobs well you'll find most of the new European countries well represented along with just about everyone else.
That's utter rubbish. To be honest I found the prices for rental properties up the roof here... and with no services at all, non-existent public transport, etc etc. If you're in London you pay sky high prices, but a monthly rent in Manchester is the same as in Edinburgh. And a rent in Edinburgh is nearly the same as in Inverness and it is a lot more convenient to live in Edin than in the Highlands. To rent a property from Inverness up north should be a lot cheaper than it is. Just my two cents of course.
secrets in symmetry
16-Mar-13, 01:24
The Scottish problem is parochial lack of ambition.
Have any secessionists lived in another country?
England doesn't count, and the Edinburgh milkman doesn't count because he has big shoes!
Utter rubbish
Sorry squidge random quote. A question for any Yes campaigner. So I can understand, if the Better Together campaign are liars with scaremongering and disingenuous arguments, why do you think they really want the UK to stay together ?
I dont think the Better Together Campaign is entirely made up by liars with scaremongering and disingenuous arguments. People genuinely believe that Scotland is better within the union. They prefer to be that way. I dont agree, thats what happens in a debate.
There are as many reasons for supporting the union as their are people, I am sure. The NO supporters put forward their arguments and the YES campaign put forward theirs. Some of the stuff posted in the webworld and in the papers is not true. That sort of thing demeans the arguments. It makes me cross.
See the leaked report? That is open to interpretation and opinion, you look at it, read it and decide what YOU think is right. It is supporting evidence if you like. The story about the soldiers is not true. It is clearly a lie. I have said that I dont care which way people vote. I hope for a YES vote but mostly I hope people think about the issues read both sides and make their own minds up.
secrets in symmetry
22-Mar-13, 01:42
I hope I will though. I have been already through this mess once and the result was we had to get the h*** out of the country. Either way, a disruption is going to happen, changes are going to happen. Scotland, for better or for worse, won't be the same. For someone who decided to come to Scotland and liked it the way it is...well, people who stay will decide but I dearly hope I won't be part of the electoral roll at the time of the referendum :eek:I would move to Southern England, but not to the North. Apart from the Scottish refugee problem, most of the North of England is too miserable in my experience - although Newcastle is something else! :cool:
I could join John Little in Somerset, but there's not much science goes on there....
I would move to Southern England, but not to the North. Apart from the Scottish refugee problem, most of the North of England is too miserable in my experience - although Newcastle is something else! :cool:
I could join John Little in Somerset, but there's not much science goes on there....
You wish....you won't be able to sell your house for the front door knocker in Somerset.
rob murray
22-Mar-13, 15:18
Its like every thing else, its all speculative if's and but's...reality is if Scotland become independent, life will go on, those lucky enough with jobs will stay, others will as well, those affluent enough may well move, but not on day 1 of independence. People will largely suck it and see and stay put, if things turn out badly then what can the vast majority do but put up with it and perhaps say "see ah telt ye !" In the absence of a Tardis there nothing really concrete to say about the future nobody really knows !!
SiS avers that he would leave Scotland if the Independence referendum delivers a Yes.
Should I be concerned?
The answer is yes if I believe that his absence would be detrimental to Scotland.
Not being an Org anorak I do not follow things too closely so have I missed facts about SiS that should worry me regarding the impact on Scotland of his leaving us?
Org regulars, please help.
Partan
John Little
22-Mar-13, 23:48
I would move to Southern England, but not to the North. Apart from the Scottish refugee problem, most of the North of England is too miserable in my experience - although Newcastle is something else! :cool:
I could join John Little in Somerset, but there's not much science goes on there....
Well there's this place called Hinckley Point...
secrets in symmetry
23-Mar-13, 02:12
Well there's this place called Hinckley Point...Hinckley is a good point, but it's not fundamental science as such....
You wish....you won't be able to sell your house for the front door knocker in Somerset.I looked at house prices in Somerset, and they're not so bad - except in Bath, where they're more than a bit over the top...
SIS are you a member of the bitter together mob selling big wooden spoons for stirring the ----.
I think he is an undercover pro-Independence voter trying to hack Scots off enough that they will vote yes just to spite him! :lol: Or he is trolling for the sake of hearing his empty belly brain rumbling?
Sorry squidge random quote. A question for any Yes campaigner. So I can understand, if the Better Together campaign are liars with scaremongering and disingenuous arguments, why do you think they really want the UK to stay together ?
Because of the oil (and the Trident parking place?) They are doing now what they did in 1979, using scaremongering and disingenuous arguments....they did that then because of the oil...and they need it more than ever now! And it is the same party in charge and at it. We know how much their promises to "do something for Scotland" meant in 1979..I do hope we are not taken in this time.
Because of the oil (and the Trident parking place?) They are doing now what they did in 1979, using scaremongering and disingenuous arguments....they did that then because of the oil...and they need it more than ever now! And it is the same party in charge and at it. We know how much their promises to "do something for Scotland" meant in 1979..I do hope we are not taken in this time.
I still haven't seen the memo about the Oil. BP (for instance) are HQ'd in London so guess where the tax revenue is going.
Checking everyone else is left as an exercise for the student
Sadly the oil isn't worth now what it once was, but there does seem to be an endless mine of windymills to extract. As for Trident, it'll be parking in its usual spot for the foreseeable future (Mr Salmond knows this), so it does beg the question, why lie about it?
I saw something today which I thought summed up the Scottish problem. "Under the current devolved settlement, Scotland has a parliament sitting in Holyrood, Edinburgh, which controls a paltry 16 percent of the country’s tax base. The game-changing economic and social policy levers remain in the hands of the U.K. government, leaving Scotland unable to properly tackle some of its social ills or take full advantage of its many natural resources."
What I suspect is the best deal has been missed, Devo Max may actually have been the best financial option. But Mr Salmond wants his independence, regardless of what the country expects (and very different from may be delivered).
secrets in symmetry
23-Mar-13, 12:28
What I suspect is the best deal has been missed, Devo Max may actually have been the best financial option. But Mr Salmond wants his independence, regardless of what the country expects (and very different from may be delivered).Yes, Devo Max or Plus or something similar.
Mendy Eck doesn't want "proper" independence because even he knows it would leave the Scottish economy weak and vulnerable to "events". Instead he demands a seat at the board of a Sterling Zone. This, and a range of other "demands", would result in more of a loose conferedation, but one in which he can do whatever he likes. Fat chance!
Secession is doomed.
secrets in symmetry
23-Mar-13, 12:32
Sadly the oil isn't worth now what it once was.Yes, it baled out the UK in the early to mid 80s after Thatcher screwed up the economy more than anyone thought possible. The tax revenue from the North Sea today is nowhere near that level in real terms.
Yes, Devo Max or Plus or something similar.Yeah, whatever it was actually called. Would have been the best bet for financial independence for Scotland, it may have even the thin end of the wedge allowing more devolution over time.
Secession is doomedWell, it all depends on your expectations. Mr Salmonds are far lower than many that truly wish for independence. #solddowntheriver
secrets in symmetry
30-Mar-13, 21:33
The failed eckerendum will delay progress by two decades - assuming previous history.
On the other hand, it could be worse than that this time. It would definitely be worse in the (almost!) inconceivable event of a eck victory. That could take half a century or more to reverse. It will be years before the secessionists admit they were wrong. Some will never admit it, they will blame someone else - just like they do now!
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.