View Full Version : Council Tax Rip Off
concerned resident
14-Feb-05, 15:34
What do you pay Council Tax, and what do you get?
I live in the Country and pay £21-00 each week, to have a small bag of rubbish disposed off. I could dispose of it myself, but they wouldn’t cancel the payment. I pay my road tax to cover the roads. It will go up another £1-00 in April, Forgot these costs are probably for joy trips for Councillors. Unless you know different?
It seems to be a common belief that council tax just pays for waste collection. If that was so, those binmen would be the best paid workers in Caithness!
It occurs to me that the council workers must be really good, to get on with their jobs without you even noticing. Council services are there if you need them - isn't that the point? (http://www.highland.gov.uk/cx/a-z/atozindex.htm)
Or are you someone who also believes that you shouldn't pay income tax that pays for the NHS (since you're healthy) or for Education ('cause you've got no kids at school)?
concerned resident
14-Feb-05, 17:37
Or are you someone who also believes that you shouldn't pay income tax that pays for the NHS (since you're healthy) or for Education ('cause you've got no kids at school)? DruttI pay my National Insurance every week for the NHS, and i pay my income tax ever week, and thats not including the back door taxes this government have imposed.
concerned resident
I pay my National Insurance every week for the NHS, and i pay my income tax ever week, and thats not including the back door taxes this government have imposed.
Okay, so we've established that you generally accept the taxation imposed by central government as fair and appropriate (though it should be noted that NI contributions don't pay for the NHS). Sneaky taxation is irritating but the local council is hardly responsible for Gordon Brown's back door taxation tactics.
So do tell me, which of the local council services do you believe you shouldn't pay for? If you needed the services of a social worker, occupational therapist, home care assistant, youth worker, environmental health officer, licensing officer, planning officer, education support officer, educational psychologist, housing officer, registrar (I could go on), would you be happy to be billed for these because they were no longer covered by your council tax? Even though, if you needed some of these services, it'd be likely that you couldn't afford to pay for them?
What would you propose as an alternative?
What do you pay Council Tax, and what do you get?
I live in the Country and pay £21-00 each week, to have a small bag of rubbish disposed off. I could dispose of it myself, but they wouldn’t cancel the payment. I pay my road tax to cover the roads. It will go up another £1-00 in April, Forgot these costs are probably for joy trips for Councillors. Unless you know different?
I think I pay around £30 per week and for that - I don't have to live near "concerned resident".
seems good value. [lol]
concerned resident
14-Feb-05, 19:47
I think I pay around £30 per week and for that - I don't have to live near "concerned resident". Mareng
They only allow people with a brain to live in my area anyway, so that counts you out. :lol:
Wick and Thurso are getting 2 new recycling centres this year, so if everyone recycled then the burden on the council tax will be a lot less.
I currently recycle all my glass, paper, food waste and aluminium cans.
As a result, I am putting out about 30% of the rubbish that I used to. When these recycling centres become available, I estimate that I could be almost 100% recycling as even catfood tins and plastic bottles can be recycled then!
If we as a county, put our waste into the greener private sector then we could achieve not paying anything for waste disposal.
Bill Fernie
14-Feb-05, 21:51
In case anyone is wondering about what council tax pays for the council web site A - Z will maybe give a few pointers http://www.highland.gov.uk/cx/a-z/atozindex.htm
It should also be remembered that council tax accounts for only about 20% of the cost of these services. The rest comes in the form of a block grant from the Scottish Executive and various individual grants from the Scottish Executive and other sources ring fenced for a range of services and projects. Education is by far the largest item in local authority spending. The council is in the tricky position of having to set a council tax each year after the Scottish Executive has announced the level of the block grant. This grant is critical to the council tax levels. So although the council agrees the level if services are not to be cut there has to be a budget set that has enough money in it to maintain the services.
Indications for the following year 2006 - 07 are that the grant will not increase sufficiently to keep up with inflation and money is definitely going to be less than for 2005 - 06. A huge number of vatiables are involved in setting the budget that amounts to over £450 million for Highland council area. At the sharp end reductions in a particular budget say for schools or social work would inevitably mean job vacancies would have to remain empty or repairs not carried out. Choices are not easy and much committee work goes into setting the budgets long before announcements are made about the rate of council tax.
A breakdown of the 2004 - 05 spending can be seen at
http://www.highland.gov.uk/fin/accountancy/budget_main_0405.htm#summary
Scroll up and down this page for more information
All councills are feeling squeezed and make represntations to the Scotttish Executive via COSLA on particular areas of spending and try to make a case for more money. The Scottish Executive are of course balancing the budget on a national level but there is little doubt that despite increases in recent years there were many years of squeeze resulting in councils making cutbacks in many areas. There is also the use of language in these circumstances as the Scottish Executive may call for "Efficiency Savings" by councils whereas councils call them "Cuts"
Hope that quick run round the case is helpful
concerned resident
15-Feb-05, 04:23
In reply to above,
Even with all the facts and figures written down and accounted for, you have to budget for what you have, or you go in to debt. This is good house keeping, which we all have to do in our lives, you cannot keep pushing the price up, you economise and get better value with what you have.
Councillors are elected by the general public to represent them, not be nodding dogs to the whims of the Government of the day, but be accountable to the people of Caithness.
If Councillors can budget the money, and there is enough left to send them on a free trip abroad to look at heating systems, I am sure no one will object.
Bobinovich
15-Feb-05, 20:37
Wick and Thurso are getting 2 new recycling centres this year, so if everyone recycled then the burden on the council tax will be a lot less.
I currently recycle all my glass, paper, food waste and aluminium cans.
As a result, I am putting out about 30% of the rubbish that I used to. When these recycling centres become available, I estimate that I could be almost 100% recycling as even catfood tins and plastic bottles can be recycled then!
If we as a county, put our waste into the greener private sector then we could achieve not paying anything for waste disposal.
I'd love to believe that if we all recycled as much as you that our council tax would actually come down, or even stand still for a year. I really doubt that would be the case though - if anything it would probably still go up - just not quite as much as 4.5%.
Just to recount a recycling tale though, the Friday after we moved to our current home in Thurso, I flat-packed masses of cardboard boxes, loaded them - with much difficulty - into our car and took them down to the cardboard recycling centre on Sir Archibald Road. I arrived a 4:33pm only to be told by a 'jobsworth' that they stop taking cardboard at 4:30pm! I thought he was joking and opened up the boot when he repeated that he wasn't going to take it. I said that I was not going to take it back home and unload it then reload it the following week and he just shrugged his shoulders.
The next day there was a council skip up at Naver so I ended up leaving it overnight in the car and taking it up there. I was asked why I wasn't taking it for recycling and repeated my tale to the workers there. Funnily enought they did not appear at all surprised!!
It maybe different when these new recycling centres get the go-ahead?
George Brims
17-Feb-05, 02:50
Where I live in California, the City council were very reluctant at first to set up a scheme for removal of garden rubbish. It was only pressure from residents and the problems of people dumping stuff here and there that got them going. When they changed us over to wheelie bins a few years back they gave us one for that stuff which they would collect every second week. That didn't last long. Now they take it every week, as they are making money on the stuff! A lot of it is shredded to make mulch for flower beds, and the rest is composted and sold to agriculture.
I have a relative who lives in Stirling and they have a standard wheelie bin for house hold waste which is collect every 2 weeks, the have a brown wheelie bin which is for food waste and other compost type material which is collected every other week. They have a large green box for paper waste and another box for glass. The Council only ask them to recycle drinks can themselves by going to one of 6 supermarkets within a 10 minute drive. They pay slightly more than us in Caithness and have all of the ammenities etc that we don't have when it comes to recycling. Will Highland Council be looking at Stirlings lead and considering it as an option and actually earn their council tax?
concerned resident
19-Feb-05, 12:48
I am in favour of anything green, but the proceeds form energy saving, do not come to the consumer, but to big businesses. Remember the Government putting petrol up, so the consumer would use other forms of transport, and then put the proceeds into their piggy bank. (in other words another tax, which unfortunately the general public are to stupid to realize) As long as the government mention the word Green, they can do what they want, with minimal objections.
Before I forget Council Tax, English councils got 1Billion from Gordon Brown, to cut Council Taxes rises south of the border, (wonder which voters Labour are trying to find favour with?) Time Scotland smelt the coffee, Where is our 1 Billion? If I am not mistaken Business Rates in Scotland were always higher than south of the border, which always puts Scotland at a disadvantage. We would have a better say, in how we run things locally, if the council was brought back to Caithness, instead of Inverness Council, sorry meant Highland Council.
Before I forget Council Tax, English councils got 1Billion from Gordon Brown, to cut Council Taxes rises south of the border, (wonder which voters Labour are trying to find favour with?) Time Scotland smelt the coffee, Where is our 1 Billion? If I am not mistaken Business Rates in Scotland were always higher than south of the border, which always puts Scotland at a disadvantage.
Let us not be greedy and disproportionate here? As England out number Scotland by 10:1 then surely we should be asking for our £100 million?
concerned resident
02-Mar-05, 17:43
Interesting bit about Council Tax in P&J Wednesday 2nd of March 2005
Council-Tax bills currently hitting doormats could make a substantially louder thud in future. In addition to the perennial increase, there's concern over proposed fat pay-offs for older councillors plus salaries and pensions for those who remain. Some people are gravely concerned, not least the elderly. From the replies on this forum, it is of little interest to the people of Caithness. (must have bags of money, or all on benifts)
Well.....Just be thankfull that you olnly pay £21 a week.
I have to pay £250 a month for council tax, and even worse myself and my husband are out of the country working for half the year, and do we get any discount for that.....Nope
And what really annoyed me, when we bought our new house, we were told Aberdeenshire council didn't provide new homes with Wheelie bins but we could buy one off them for £30.............eehhhhhhhhhh.....we give them £250 a month and they can't even provide wheelie bins, and ofcourse if we don't use a wheelie bin we don't get our rubbish taken away. Yet 5 miles down the road in Aberdeen City council area they DO provide wheelie bins for new homes, now where is the logic there.
I would so love to only pay £21 a month, and have free paking when shopping ( Just had to throw that one in...lol...)
It seems to me that concerned resident is not happy with their lot.
Speaking for myself I think that we get what we pay for. The council workers (especially the binmen) do a grand job, they go out in all weathers and collect our rubbish.
Oh! and by the way I am not on benefits and I think you will find that people on benefits still have to pay a contribution to the Council Tax. A hard thing to do when you are on benefits....
concerned resident
03-Mar-05, 20:51
The bin men and other menial workers, earn their money, they are not paid vast sums, and I believe paid less, than for the same job, the nearer you get to Inverness. I am on about the fat cats who sit in offices, thinking up ways of spending the money, so there is nothing left, by the end of the financial year, so they can ask for more the next year. Not looking after the pounds and pennies, as my granny would say.
Smee2 Oh! and by the way I am not on benefits and I think you will find that people on benefits still have to pay a contribution to the Council Tax. A hard thing to do when you are on benefits....A person entitled to income support, income-based jobseeker’s allowance or the guarantee credit of Pension Credit will get the maximum amount of council tax benefit. Her/his benefit will cover 100% of her/his council tax. (CAB advice site)
I am on about the fat cats who sit in offices, thinking up ways of spending the money, so there is nothing left, by the end of the financial year, so they can ask for more the next year. Not looking after the pounds and pennies, as my granny would say.
Fat cats??!! Are you having a laugh?? You're talking about senior management in local councils, not international corporations.
Salaries have to be adequate for that level just to get competent managers into the jobs. You wouldn't want incompetent idiots who aren't qualified running Education and Social Services departments, would you? Thought not.
Equally though, every one of those managers could earn a lot more in the private sector, but opt to work in the public sector instead. They're not doing it for the love of money.
Now, if we're talking about departments which actively and frivolously seek to spend their whole budget, you can find them, and they're pretty close to home too. Council departments, on the other hand, are generally just getting by on the budget they have.
Highland Laddie
03-Mar-05, 22:22
[quote="Rheghead"
Let us not be greedy and disproportionate here? As England out number Scotland by 10:1 then surely we should be asking for our £100 million?[/quote]
10:1 not bad odds, bring it on :o)
The Pepsi Challenge
04-Mar-05, 16:38
The fact of the matter is thus: council tax(ation) is unfair.
Let me give you one example...
I live in a flat which, let's say, cost x amount of pounds to buy. The flat above me cost exactly the same. The layout/design of both flats are the same; they were both bought for the same price at the same time. (I know this because I'm friends with the person who lives above me.) Now. I know for a fact that the person above me - we both live on our own - earns double the amount of money (per annum) than I do. We pay exactly the same amount of money in council tax.
Whether or not we get decent services to justify the cost of our CT is questionable, quite rightly. The point is - why should I pay the same amount of council tax as someone who earns twice as much as me, lives in a flat that cost the same amount to buy, within the same block?
It's not right. You know it, so does the council. Shelling out x amount of pounds might not harm someone on say 30K a year. But when you earn half that (I'm using example figures here) it doesn't exactly put a spring in your step on the way to pay CT at the Post Office. But then the government just shut down my local Post Office, so there's another tax: the 80p bus ride into town to the nearest one.
why should I pay the same amount of council tax as someone who earns twice as much as me, lives in a flat that cost the same amount to buy, within the same block?
Does he get his bins emptied twice as often as you? Does he have a special road system, resurfaced every month, on which to drive? Does he have his own police-officer standing by should he ever need assistance? Perhaps he has a private lane at the swimming pool with a personal life-guard and specially-filtered water? Maybe when he walks down the street somebody walks ten feet in front of him picking up any bits of rubbish that might otherwise spoil his day? Or is it that the street lights burn a little brighter when he’s nearby so he doesn’t need to strain his eyes?
If you are unable to pay, that's one thing... but if you are able to pay for the services you receive, why should somebody else need to pay a little bit of your share for you?
Steady on, jjc, You'll be arguing in favour of the Poll Tax next.
In fact, why don't we abolish income tax altogether while we're at it? After all we all get the same services from the Government, so why should some people have to pay more for them? Let's have a flat rate of tax -- everyone pays the same. What could be fairer than that?
Aha, I get it, you are so embarrassed at being labelled an extreme left-wing neo-libertarian that you are creeping rightwards and autoritarianwards via the back door. Lock your doors folks, jjc is coming to smack your kids, place bibles in your bedside tables, and convince you that the world view according to Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld is right after all.
If you are unable to pay, that's one thing... but if you are able to pay for the services you receive, why should somebody else need to pay a little bit of your share for you?
That is hardly a left-wing viewpoint. :roll:
Steady on, jjc, You'll be arguing in favour of the Poll Tax next.
In fact, why don't we abolish income tax altogether while we're at it? After all we all get the same services from the Government, so why should some people have to pay more for them? Let's have a flat rate of tax -- everyone pays the same. What could be fairer than that?
Do you know, I’ve actually been sitting here since I posted that little spiel, staring out across London [flying home in just four hours! Yeah! :D] through my grimy window and reflecting on this… and blow me, but I was wrong! :eek:
Pepsi, you’re quite right… why should you pay the same?
I swear I wasn’t playing Devil’s Advocate… I just hadn’t actually sat and thought about it too much. I suppose that when the ‘service’ is something easily identifiable and which we all receive equally (such as bin collections) it’s easy to slap a fixed price on it and be done…
There is something (quite a lot, in fact) to be said for a local income tax to pay for local services.
Damn… this is a weird sensation… I’m going to have to go and reflect on this some more… :eek:
It seems that arguing with some of you right-wing, authoritarian freaks is driving me to opposite extremes!
Or may be it is starting to rub off on you? ;)
Aha, I get it, you are so embarrassed at being labelled an extreme left-wing neo-libertarian that you are creeping rightwards and autoritarianwards via the back door. Lock your doors folks, jjc is coming to smack your kids, place bibles in your bedside tables, and convince you that the world view according to Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld is right after all.
Damn straight!
[That’s something I heard a Tory say once! Clever eh? It appeals to the authoritarians because it’s aggressive whilst, at the same time, it carries undertones of support for the homophobes on the extreme right. Pretty soon I’ll be able to pass for ‘New’ Labour ;) ]
The point is - why should I pay the same amount of council tax as someone who earns twice as much as me, lives in a flat that cost the same amount to buy, within the same block?
You were aware of the tax band that your flat fell into before you bought it, weren't you? What does that have to do with how much your neighbour earns?
Whether or not we get decent services to justify the cost of our CT is questionable, quite rightly. The point is - why should I pay the same amount of council tax as someone who earns twice as much as me, lives in a flat that cost the same amount to buy, within the same block?
Because you are paying for equal services. You could just as well argue, why should you pay the same prices in a super market or for petrol or in fact for anything when you earn less than someone else. I would be annoyed if my neighbour, who may not do very much by choice, paid less than me just because they earned less. In order to make up my income i have to work at two jobs. Income tax is a completely different thing and I think we pay enough of that as it is. So why should we be penalised twice?
Because you are paying for equal services.
Does that mean that the guy in the flat above should get twice the medical care?
Does that mean that the guy in the flat above should get twice the medical care?
What's that got to do with paying council tax?
Katarina's talking about equal access to council services, should you need them.
Isn't the NHS funded largely through income tax?
Isn't the NHS funded largely through income tax?
Yeah, and now I'm just getting confused. :confused
I thought we were talking about paying for council tax, not income tax.
The Pepsi Challenge
04-Mar-05, 18:30
The point is - why should I pay the same amount of council tax as someone who earns twice as much as me, lives in a flat that cost the same amount to buy, within the same block?
You were aware of the tax band that your flat fell into before you bought it, weren't you? What does that have to do with how much your neighbour earns?
We both new what the tax band was, yes, but It still doesn't make it any fairer. In a better world our/my council tax - and the person upstairs' - would be calculated in terms of our income.
Sorry, I may be was a little vague, If the guy in the flat above is paying twice the amount of income tax then my sarcasm was trying to imply he should be entitled to twice the amount of medical care.
So if the council tax was income related then he should have twice the amount of public services?
Not so, it is a purely political question as to how public services should be funded. Left wingers want income related taxation and right wingers want uniform taxation because they then conserve more of their income and rely on the proletariat to fund it. My personal income has changed for the better enormously lately and I am finding it hard to balance my traditional left-wing views with the greed of my bank balance, so i can see both sides of the fence on this one.
The Pepsi Challenge
04-Mar-05, 18:49
why should I pay the same amount of council tax as someone who earns twice as much as me, lives in a flat that cost the same amount to buy, within the same block?
Does he get his bins emptied twice as often as you? Does he have a special road system, resurfaced every month, on which to drive? Does he have his own police-officer standing by should he ever need assistance? Perhaps he has a private lane at the swimming pool with a personal life-guard and specially-filtered water? Maybe when he walks down the street somebody walks ten feet in front of him picking up any bits of rubbish that might otherwise spoil his day? Or is it that the street lights burn a little brighter when he’s nearby so he doesn’t need to strain his eyes?
If you are unable to pay, that's one thing... but if you are able to pay for the services you receive, why should somebody else need to pay a little bit of your share for you?
Phew! That's a lot of questions. I'll try to answer them for you (in accordance to the question marks)...
- No, she (not he), like me, gets her bins emptied once a week. However, the bins, stored in a compactor at the foot of the block, are regularly overflowing with excess trash. The teenagers that come round to set fire to it helps; sadly, that, is a bigger health hazard.
- Hmmm... after viewing some of the roads in Thurso during the festive season, I reckon the roads in my area are some of the worst in Scotland. Neighbours regularly complain of replacing their car' springs, and our local paper ran a week-long set of features highlighting the problem: asking people to inform the paper, who would then investigate and photograph the road - and its potholes - in a bid to make the local council sit up and notice. They haven't... so far.
- I've never seen a police officer on the beat round here. Plenty of them running round in their cars, though. Hopefully I won't have to phone them in the middle of the night. My next door neighbour did once, and they took 90 minutes to arrive. Never did get his TV back either, poor guy. Aged 81 itwas his only source of entertainment.
- No. Again, like me, she lives in a lo-rise block of flats. Think Mount Vernon-meets High Ormlie. At an Easterhouse new council-flat opening ceremony.
- The litter problem round here is so-so. Not as good, obviously, as some European cities I could mention. They local council is getting better at it - they're picking it up as they go along. Boom! Boom!
- Lots of lights round here, thankfully. Only problem: they're a bit too dim.
To your last point: I've already stated it.
Thanks.
The Pepsi Challenge
04-Mar-05, 18:51
Sorry, I may be was a little vague, If the guy in the flat above is paying twice the amount of income tax then my sarcasm was trying to imply he should be entitled to twice the amount of medical care.
So if the council tax was income related then he should have twice the amount of public services?
Not so, it is a purely political question as to how public services should be funded. Left wingers want income related taxation and right wingers want uniform taxation because they then conserve more of their income and rely on the proletariat to fund it. My personal income has changed for the better enormously lately and I am finding it hard to balance my traditional left-wing views with the greed of my bank balance, so i can see both sides of the fence on this one.
Don't worry about it. Everyone wants stuff - which is why socialism will never 'work'.
Because you are paying for equal services. You could just as well argue, why should you pay the same prices in a super market or for petrol or in fact for anything when you earn less than someone else. I would be annoyed if my neighbour, who may not do very much by choice, paid less than me just because they earned less. In order to make up my income i have to work at two jobs. Income tax is a completely different thing and I think we pay enough of that as it is. So why should we be penalised twice?
Katarina, I understand what you are saying but, I think you are oversimplifying too much. You are of course right about supermarket prices and the like, but local government is slightly different. It is paid for by taxes, not by individuals. I think the difference is a little subtle, but I do believe it's a genuine difference.
Most local-government funding comes from the Scottish Executive (roughly 80%) and that in turn comes from general taxation (income tax, VAT, corporation tax, National Insurance, etc). Note that National Insurance doesn't go to fund the NHS or to pay state pensions; it goes straight into the national coffers; the name is purely historical. Only 20% of local government funding comes from your Council Tax. In fact, that's why council tax rates are so volatile. A 20% increase in local govenment spending tomorrow would double your Council Tax instantly! Look here (http://www.caithness.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=38745&highlight=#38745) for details from a man who should know.
The upshot is that you are already paying a lot more towards local government than your neighbour who earns less than you --for whatever reason!
Consider this too. What is funded by central government and what is funded by local government is somewhat arbitrary. For example, education is funded by local government but this need not be so. In fact, many people argue that education should be funded directly by the Scottish Executive. The NHS is, of course, funded by national taxation, even if the money is dished out by local health boards. Would you really argue that everyone should pay the same amount towards education, but pay for the NHS according to income? I suspect not.
The upshot here is that the distinction between income tax (national) and Council Tax (local) becomes rather blurred. Some people would argue that all taxes should be based on income and the ability to pay. Others would argue that everyone should pay something in order to pay their fair share, and to engender social responsibility. I would imagine you are in that latter camp, and that's ok with me.
The right-wing libertarians amongst us (not me!) might argue that the government provides services that we all enjoy equally, at least in principle, so then we should all pay for them equally, and national taxes should be fixed at the same level for everyone -- we all receive the same government services, so we should all pay the same taxes. Actually, the poorer members of society receive more services, so perhaps they should pay more! Even jjc admits to getting this one wrong sometimes. :D
Finally, you say you need to work at two jobs to make up your income. I suspect that if Council Tax were funded by an income-related tax then you would be better off! But perhaps you are a person of higher principles than that. I expect you are. So am I, that's why I believe that those of us who earn a good bit more than most people, should pay more in tax than most people.
We both new what the tax band was, yes, but It still doesn't make it any fairer. In a better world our/my council tax - and the person upstairs' - would be calculated in terms of our income.
I believe it's certainly being considered as an option for council funding in the future. I do think the banding structure is far better than the poll tax, which was unquestionably unfair.
When I'd been looking for a new place to live a few months ago, I found this lovely 4 bedroomed detached house with 2 en-suites and a garage. We could afford the rent. What put us off in the end was that the council tax band for this house, together with the rent, made it far less affordable. So we went elsewhere.
I can't say I blame the local council for that. You know what costs you're taking on when you take them on. If you live in a bigger house, or one in a more desirable area, it'll be in a higher tax band. These are used as a measure for how much council tax you can afford to pay. I don't really see what's wrong with that.
Katarina has a point about how we could extend the income argument to everything, but it'd all get a little tenuous.
The Pepsi Challenge
04-Mar-05, 19:02
What can you say about the good Doc, huh? Doc for president! I'll vote for you.
Anyway... your quote: "national taxes should be fixed at the same rate for everyone." Do you mean, as a % of their income?
What i want to know is where the £150 reduction is off the Council tax?
Remember? The Tories raised VAT to 17.5% from 15% to fund a £150 reduction from the Poll Tax. Since the Council tax replaced the Community charge where is the reduction? And why hasn't the VAT gone back to 15%?
My personal income has changed for the better enormously lately and I am finding it hard to balance my traditional left-wing views with the greed of my bank balance, so i can see both sides of the fence on this one.
I know what you mean, when you look at your pay slip at the end of the month and think "I paid how much tax??!!"
What gets me back in line with my principles is living near to some of the most deprived, poverty-ridden areas of the UK. Seeing them makes me ashamed that we're allowing the rich-poor divide to get wider and wider and seemingly doing nothing to address it.
What can you say about the good Doc, huh? Doc for president! I'll vote for you.
Anyway... your quote: "national taxes should be fixed at the same rate for everyone." Do you mean, as a % of their income?
No, I mean as a fixed sum. Everyone pays the same amount!!! And, no, I am not advocating that!
I have just edited my post to try to clarify what I meant, but I still don't think I did a very good job of it.
The Pepsi Challenge
04-Mar-05, 19:15
We both new what the tax band was, yes, but It still doesn't make it any fairer. In a better world our/my council tax - and the person upstairs' - would be calculated in terms of our income.
I believe it's certainly being considered as an option for council funding in the future. I do think the banding structure is far better than the poll tax, which was unquestionably unfair.
When I'd been looking for a new place to live a few months ago, I found this lovely 4 bedroomed detached house with 2 en-suites and a garage. We could afford the rent. What put us off in the end was that the council tax band for this house, together with the rent, made it far less affordable. So we went elsewhere.
I can't say I blame the local council for that. You know what costs you're taking on when you take them on. If you live in a bigger house, or one in a more desirable area, it'll be in a higher tax band. These are used as a measure for how much council tax you can afford to pay. I don't really see what's wrong with that.
Katarina has a point about how we could extend the income argument to everything, but it'd all get a little tenuous.
You're dead right. I knew what my council tax would cost when I moved into my house - I just didn't budget for it to go up by such a considerable amount each year. That's my naivety for you.
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