View Full Version : Flying to the USA?
Before you do, you may want to read this....
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/01/01/nusnoop01.xml
Best cancel my subs to Paranoia Magazine...
As I've always said if you have nothing to hide why let this worry you. I go to the states quite a lot and I would not let this put me off.
Try hiring a car from any of the large Car Rental Firms in the UK by using cash well over six years ago.
One of my friends tried to hire a van in the North of England, from a very large British Owned Van Rental Firm, to move some stuff to Caithness. He had all the ID normally needed by way of ID and, of course, his Drivers Licence.
Cash, not on your life. Plastic or nothing. "But if I pay cash you already have the money!" "Sorry Plastic or go away, not interested otherwise!"
Now why do you think that was? Just who in the Car Rental Business would be able to make use of such Bank Details legally? And, if not them, just who would have an interest in your bank details and also be able to readily gain access to them without fuss?
And you don't think such things happen here already? Britain is acknowledged, and proudly admits, that it is the World Leader in Government Surveillance of it's population.
And that information is not from carefully searching the Internet for any special interest sites, it was secretly gleaned by my listening to various News Items and the admission (boasts?) of our own politicians and leaders who, when they think it is to their benefit, are only to keen to let it be known.
When cameras, several decades ago, first started to appear on Motorways, for safety reasons, the insistence was that they should not have the capability for Number Plate Recognition to reassure the public they were not being secretly “snooped” on.
You try driving in and out of London and various other places without having your Number Plate recorded on some Official Source.
Paranoid? Just listen to the news reports after a major criminal enquiry in a large conurbation, be it terrorism or violent crime.
Once those responsible are caught the Authorities are only to keen to explain how cleverly they could trace the suspects every move from surveillance cameras to “reassure” the public how safe they are.
After there has been a conviction and the matter is being discussed watch for how many times “stills” or even “action movies” are shown on the news.
And don’t fall for the “if you have done nothing wrong” line. After one of the big rail accidents a few years ago, the one where an Express struck an Engine which missed a red signal and crossed the main line I think it was, one of the relatives refused to leave well along and kept pushing for a proper enquiry. She simply refused to be fobbed off with the “Official” nothing much to worry about it will be alright.
When she continued to keep pressing, it eventually came to light that the Government had been checking her background using, or rather misusing, Official Bodies to try to dig up some, any dirt or political background she might have in order to find something, anything, to discredit her and shut her up. When that started to come to light there was a sudden rush to hold a large Public Enquiry into the crash.
What had she got to hide? What had she done wrong? Well, for a start she was causing the Government some political embarrassment and was beginning to make them look like they were hiding something. Simply for that reason she was treated just the same as if she were a dangerous security threat or engaged in major criminal activity.
But don’t worry, after all, “If you’ve nothing to hide!” :roll:
As I've always said if you have nothing to hide why let this worry you.
Guatanamo Bay is full of people who had nothing to hide.
Their only crime was fitting a profile.
.
When cameras, several decades ago, first started to appear on Motorways, for safety reasons, the insistence was that they should not have the capability for Number Plate Recognition to reassure the public they were not being secretly “snooped” on.
You try driving in and out of London and various other places without having your Number Plate recorded on some Official Source.
Paranoid? Just listen to the news reports after a major criminal enquiry in a large conurbation, be it terrorism or violent crime.
Once those responsible are caught the Authorities are only to keen to explain how cleverly they could trace the suspects every move from surveillance cameras to “reassure” the public how safe they are.
After there has been a conviction and the matter is being discussed watch for how many times “stills” or even “action movies” are shown on the news.
But don’t worry, after all, “If you’ve nothing to hide!” :roll:
Well said!!
I drive around 110 miles a day and I'm sure where I drive my number plate is recorded every single day, every time I go for fuel, again the number plate is taken, and to back this up they'll also have the card transaction. so much for a "Free" country! If President Blair were staying in power I dread to think where we will end up. I don't like the idea of having to carry an ID card, as I believe it is they who should prove that you are not who you say you are if they have doubts over your identity. The whole electronic age is getting out of hand - where will it all stop? - Answer - it won't, until we can't even move around in our own bed without alerting some government satelite or motion sensor, so they can tax us on the extra fresh air used to breathe harder because our body moved!!
sorry, slightly off the topic there - I hate the idea that people know where I am because of my car reg etc, but what can we do? For security at my work, I have a swipe card for gaining access to all doors, both internally and externally. Even my bosses know what part of the building every one is in.
We are just going to have to somehow accept that this is the way it is and get on with it, whether you have "anthing to hide or not!"
I think the requirement for a credit card swipe with vehicle hire comes from the damage or non return of the vehicle. It's a form of surety so the vehicle hire company is not left out of pocket. I remember having to leave a large deposit when hiring pre credit card - usually a cheque.
Now whether or not you have something to hide, your bank details and emails can now be viewed by US officials if they deem you to be a risk and obtain the court orders. Hopefully it will make air travel safer. Or maybe people will stop flying to the US and we'll get more legroom!!!
Thanks fred - somehow thought you'd pipe up.
"Their only crime was fitting a profile"???
I think the fact that a lot of them were in terrorist training camps might have a little bit to do with their capture. Still they've had 3 meals a day and nice orange jumpsuits since then. So much better than the rigours of training to shoot people and drive vehicle bombs and takeover aircraft and learn how to decapitate hostages....
Guatanamo Bay is full of people who had nothing to hide.
Their only crime was fitting a profile.
I've found very few places accepting Amex in Afghanistan!
Here's the profile the residents of Gitmo filled...
Thanks fred - somehow thought you'd pipe up.
"Their only crime was fitting a profile"???
I think the fact that a lot of them were in terrorist training camps might have a little bit to do with their capture. Still they've had 3 meals a day and nice orange jumpsuits since then. So much better than the rigours of training to shoot people and drive vehicle bombs and takeover aircraft and learn how to decapitate hostages....
If their guilt can be proved have them tried and convicted. Why are they ( and we) not entitled to due process? There is a reason for having police, detectives and courts as seperate entities. The USA is playing some kind of judge Dread because the world is allowing it to happen.
j4bberw0ck
03-Jan-07, 16:55
I think the requirement for a credit card swipe with vehicle hire comes from the damage or non return of the vehicle. It's a form of surety so the vehicle hire company is not left out of pocket. I remember having to leave a large deposit when hiring pre credit card - usually a cheque.
10/10. It's also a means of NOT having quantities of cash lying around which can be stolen or lost. Rental outlets are very often in places not near a "full service" bank. And it saves having to have security companies come and pick it up (at a significant charge), and lastly it saves bank charges - businesses are charged for cheques and cash.
Now whether or not you have something to hide, your bank details and emails can now be viewed by US officials if they deem you to be a risk and obtain the court orders. Hopefully it will make air travel safer. Or maybe people will stop flying to the US and we'll get more legroom!!!I don't subscribe to the "if you have nothing to hide" argument; it's the last resort of those who don't think things through. But if the US wants to be able to do all these things,let them - it'll hit them in the pocket soon enough as people who object don't go there on holiday, do business by email and videolink, and as the queues build up at airports.
That said, you have to produce a bank statement routinely these days to borrow money, apply for a credit card, open a savings account or whatever, courtesy of the Money Laundering Regulations. It seems to me that the US authorities want to do no more. They know that in Europe, moneylaundering is under tight control so it's relatively difficult to get a bank account if you haven't proved your ID, so if you have a bank account, it helps establish that you exist.
What good that does them, I'm not sure. Neither the requirement for access to emails; if I don't tell them about an email account, can they know about it? But emails are all scanned electronically in this country anyway and it's inconceivable that the US has enough people in place to physically read the email correspondence of everyone entering the country.
"Their only crime was fitting a profile"
Profiling is something that's helped El Al become the only major airline that's managed to ensure terrorists haven't killed their passengers, since they implemented security in the 1950's. Post 2001, their booking soared as people sought the security of an airline that wasn't hung up on political correctness - just on protecting its passengers.
But they're Israeli, which or course means they're terrorists themselves to certain esteemed correspondents of this board, and their conscientious poodles :lol:
I think the requirement for a credit card swipe with vehicle hire comes from the damage or non return of the vehicle. It's a form of surety so the vehicle hire company is not left out of pocket. I remember having to leave a large deposit when hiring pre credit card - usually a cheque.
As far as I am aware you still do have to leave a deposit, the reason for that happening was concerned with the Insurance. I'd have swapped that cheque any day for a very low mileage, good quality hire vehicle, especially if it was one that was only a couple of months old.
It was also to make sure that you didn't take the vehicle with a full tank of fuel and return it empty. When you returned the vehicle they would make sure the tank was full and checked the vehicle for damage before they returned the cheque.
As far as I know they still do the same. They check the vehicle against the record of marks/damage made when you took the vehicle and give you a chitty for the cost of fuel which you then have to take to the office.
It was only after Hire Vans had been used as Bombs that the insistence of plastic was brought into being.
Now they are suggesting every vehicle be fitted with a "Tracking Device" for Road Charging to save the Environment. Move your car and the fact would be recorded. That's not "make believe" either, the Government makes the suggestion again and again using different reasons to get people used to the idea. I think the original idea floated was to assist with stopping vehicle thefts, Your Insurance Premium would be greatly reduced if you had one fitted was one suggestion made. When that didn’t work the suggestion was to benefit the environment. Now the suggestion is to reduce congestion, you would be billed each month depending on where and when you used your car. Three a.m. in Caithness, pay peanuts, three p.m. in Edinburgh, pay through the nose.
In order to do that they would have to have records of every vehicle every minute of the day every day.
I know of no other Country in the World which is suggesting such constant detailed information needs to be kept for any of the reasons given. Even Japan, which is at the leading edge of technology and has far worse traffic problems than us isn’t making such suggestions.
The suggestions our own Government are making for control of it’s own citizens, let alone unknown quantities from other places, makes Orwell’s 1984 took like a comedy by comparison.
It was only within the last month or so that the BBC put out a programme about one of their reporters, of non-British appearance (No, I’ve no idea about the persons origins, I missed the programme but heard the advanced publicity), to every Country in the EU where she obtained, quite easily and cheaply, fraudulent passports and other paperwork showing her to be a citizen of every single country.
If a normally law-abiding reporter did that so easily what price that a well trained terrorist or criminal would never be able to do the same?
“Keep people’s attention focused on America, that way they might not notice what we are up to!”
And, lets face it, in political terms, not one of our Governments, like them or not, have been very far from the centre grounds of politics. There hasn’t been one who has come anywhere near the extremes of either the Left or Right, not so far at least!
I hate the idea that people know where I am because of my car reg etc, but what can we do? For security at my work, I have a swipe card for gaining access to all doors, both internally and externally. Even my bosses know what part of the building every one is in.
We are just going to have to somehow accept that this is the way it is and get on with it, whether you have "anthing to hide or not!"Just wait until you have to have a high-tech ID Card which starts to get "Swiped" here, there and everywhere, with a Chip gathering heaven knows what information about you.
The NHS in England are already setting up a system whereby anybody with clearance on the system can gain access to your full Medical Records. Just in case you are taken seriously ill in Ashby-de-la-Zouch you understand, knowing you had a boil on your bum when you were fifteen might really help save your life!
You can guarantee tha the Dept of Health will have full access! What a convenient way of discrediting people who make an inconvenient fuss for a Government. "How terrible, we have no idea how the fact that they suffered from severe depression a few years ago got into the hands of the Media!"
"Sorry, you'll have to swipe your ID Card here before we can give you treatment, it's a requirement to stop fraud, you see!"
I think the fact that a lot of them were in terrorist training camps might have a little bit to do with their capture. Still they've had 3 meals a day and nice orange jumpsuits since then. So much better than the rigours of training to shoot people and drive vehicle bombs and takeover aircraft and learn how to decapitate hostages....
So how come they haven't been tried if they're so guilty?
How about the Tipton Three? British citizens held at Guantanamo for over two years and never even charged?
Would America get away with it if it was white Christians being held and tourtured at Guantanamo? Would a few people on this forum be so happy to let them?
To hold someone for up to four years without charge indicates a society heading towards George Orwell's Animal Farm.
John Sentamu, Archbishop of York
So how come they haven't been tried if they're so guilty?
IMO, they are not your common or garden criminals, they are alleged terrorists, and have lost the right to be treated under the Human Rights Act. The longer they are locked up the better as far as I am concerned.
It was only within the last month or so that the BBC put out a programme about one of their reporters...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/6158927.stm
She was stopped by immigration in the UK port of entry and she thought she had been rumbled but she was allowed through. Lazy immigration officials or overworked and no time to sort out iffy passport holders?
Conscience
03-Jan-07, 20:30
Wait until they do away with the ID/Credit card chips and just put a chip straight in your arm. In 1939 it was a tattoo, in the 21st century it'll be a subdermal RFID chip (http://www.slate.com/id/2109477/).
IMO, they are not your common or garden criminals, they are alleged terrorists, and have lost the right to be treated under the Human Rights Act. The longer they are locked up the better as far as I am concerned.
Are you saying tha Muslems arn't human?
oldmarine
03-Jan-07, 20:56
Are you saying tha Muslems arn't human?
It depends on which Muslems to whom you are referring - Osama Bin Laden or any of the other terrorists who are among the threats.
Conscience
03-Jan-07, 21:02
Whether a person is a terrorist or not depends on your point of view. To Israelis the Stern Gang were not terrorists, to Britain they were. To some Irish the IRA were not terrorists, but to us they were. So, is someone who picks up a gun and defends their home when a foreign power invades, a terrorist?
Jeemag_USA
03-Jan-07, 21:21
Well if anyone does fly over, don't worry if they give you a thoro going over and a cavity search, you can stop by ma hoose for a cup of tea to calm your nerves :lol:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/6158927.stm
She was stopped by immigration in the UK port of entry and she thought she had been rumbled but she was allowed through. Lazy immigration officials or overworked and no time to sort out iffy passport holders?Or could it be that the Immigration People are told not to question people too closely?
connieb19
03-Jan-07, 21:27
Well if anyone does fly over, don't worry if they give you a thoro going over and a cavity search, you can stop by ma hoose for a cup of tea to calm your nerves :lol:
And if they dont give us thoro going over and cavity search will you give us one at yer hoose? :eek:
IMO, they are not your common or garden criminals, they are alleged terrorists, and have lost the right to be treated under the Human Rights Act. The longer they are locked up the better as far as I am concerned.
Golach, the word I'd have prefered to see you use in bold is alleged, because no matter how henious the crime, you are innocent untill proven guilty, even in the USA (...oh right: Guantanemo isn't there, is it?). These are people that should be locked up with the key thrown away, ONCE they have been tried and convicted for the crime. Untill then they are Joe Shmoe, or me, or Golach ....or anyone.
Times, unfortunately are changing. But due process exists to try and avoid the abuses that men like Saddam Hussein commited.
It depends on which Muslems to whom you are referring - Osama Bin Laden or any of the other terrorists who are among the threats.Did the article mention it was only Muslims flying from Britain to America who were the subject of the requisite details required? Perhaps I misread it, I thought it indicated that everybody was included. I didn't realise the article also applied to people flying into Britain from abroad. Again, it certainly didn't seem to say that.
It seems to me that every Country reserves the right to say who it does or does not allow to enter.
I know of perfectly decent, law-abiding people who have been refused entry into Countries with no reason given whatsoever and all they were doing was passing through on an organised coach holiday heading elsewhere. All the necessary paperwork, completed correctly, was sent with all the rest for the necessary permits and only the one came back simply marked "Refused".
The person concerned took the correct attitude that it was that Countries right to make that decision. If the same happened to me I would take the same attitude.
With the exception of those Countries in the EU who have a Treaty Obligation to allow me access there is no other Country in the World that I consider should not place any restrictions it wishes on me before it allows me in. I also accept that once I am there, if they decide they have changed their minds they have a perfect right turn me round at the airport and put me on the next plane home.
I either accept the conditions of the Country I wish to visit or I don't go. It's only the same as visiting a stranger's house, if they say you don't come through the door then you don't go through the door. It's their house so it's their decision, I certainly don't think I have a right to make a fuss over it.
Jeemag_USA
03-Jan-07, 22:10
And if they dont give us thoro going over and cavity search will you give us one at yer hoose? :eek:
A cup of tea, aye sure :lol:
North Rhins
03-Jan-07, 22:11
Unfortunately Guatanamo Bay has gone on for too long without any big publicised results. The whole thing now is playing right into the hands of the terrorist. Just like when a soldier steps out of line it makes headline news and adds credibility to the terrorists cause.
The greatest mistake made was the fact that the world was told that these people had been taken into custody. They should have just been rounded up and shot through the head. It worked for Saddam. Or we could have adopted the Muslim way and hacked their heads off with a knife. Think of the ratings, it would have seen DVD sales go through the roof a guaranteed Christmas number 1.
Must sign off now, the battery is running down on my subliminal implant.
It depends on which Muslems to whom you are referring - Osama Bin Laden or any of the other terrorists who are among the threats.
There is no Osama Bin Laden at Guantanamo Bay, I doubt there are any terrorists. There are a lot of people who have been called "Enemy Combatants" at Guantanamo Bay but less than five percent of those were actually captured by American soldiers under battlefield conditions so how do they know?
Let's take the case of Murat Kurnaz, born and raised in Germany of Turkish parents, held and tortured for 5 years four of them at Guantanamo Bay and who's only crime seems to be being Muslem.
If he had been a member of your family would you be so keen to deny him his human rights? If he had even been white would you have been so keen to deny him his human rights.
Let's face it "if you have nothing to hide why let this worry you" actually means "if you are white Anglo Saxon why let this worry you" doesn't it?
Conscience
03-Jan-07, 23:19
Surely 'anglo-saxon' does not include those of the celtic fringe?
Just wait until you have to have a high-tech ID Card which starts to get "Swiped" here, there and everywhere, with a Chip gathering heaven knows what information about you.
The NHS in England are already setting up a system whereby anybody with clearance on the system can gain access to your full Medical Records. Just in case you are taken seriously ill in Ashby-de-la-Zouch you understand, knowing you had a boil on your bum when you were fifteen might really help save your life!
You can guarantee tha the Dept of Health will have full access! What a convenient way of discrediting people who make an inconvenient fuss for a Government. "How terrible, we have no idea how the fact that they suffered from severe depression a few years ago got into the hands of the Media!"
"Sorry, you'll have to swipe your ID Card here before we can give you treatment, it's a requirement to stop fraud, you see!"
Yes, I realise the country is going this way, and it's going to be so easy for the wrong people to access anyone's full medical history. How can we stop this? Any ideas anyone? And, yes, the next step will be a chip under the skin, and every door we go through will have an inbuilt scanner - big bro will be watching us 24/7. (If he's not already)
I find this a frightening prospect, having anyone in the NHS getting access to full records. And surely (this is one for all you IT buffs) if these records are available over a national database (network) then this surely makes it easier for hackers to access it also. I don't know much about IT, but I believe that no system is completely secure. Can any of you enlighten us on this?
Are you saying tha Muslems arn't human?
Very good Fred (the Dr Gobbels of the .Org),( By that I mean you are the expert at spreading propaganda and dis-information), I said that in my opinion they are terrorists, regardless of what religion or creed.
I consider them the same as the IRA, Provional IRA, UDF, and ETA, EOKA, and any other terrorist group, yes Fred even the Stern Gang.
I do not care what their agenda is, if it involves terrorism, then the full might of the Government of the time should be used
Very good Fred (the Dr Gobbels of the .Org),( By that I mean you are the expert at spreading propaganda and dis-information), I said that in my opinion they are terrorists, regardless of what religion or creed.
You said they were not entitled to human rights.
All humans are entitled to human rights.
Once you start classing one section of the human race as sub human you are going down the road of the Nazis.
If someone commits a crime then try them in a court of law and punish them. Rounding people who all happen to be the same colour and religion up, putting them in camps and torturing them is barbaric.
And, yes, the next step will be a chip under the skin, and every door we go through will have an inbuilt scanner - big bro will be watching us 24/7. (If he's not already)The technology is already there and, according to a reliable source, already in very small scale use.
From the same reliable source it would seem that there very Select Clubs frequented by the Jet-Setters where, when you join, you have a chip inserted in your arm.
Saves all the messing with remembering numbers or carrying cards or hoping the Doorman recognises you. The Chip gives you automatic access, there is no need for carrying cash, no bother signing for bar bills. You just get your drinks, meals, whatever and the Chip is used to automatically record everything so you simply eventually have your bill sorted out, no doubt electronically and automatically.
Sounds too elite, expensive and complicated? How much does it get the have your pet Chipped at the Vets? How rich and posh do you have to be to be able to afford that?
I don’t see things going quite that far, at least not in the foreseeable future but the Technology already exists and is certainly not prohibitively expensive.
I got my Chip automatically scanned in Caithness during the last week. Sounds fantastic?
Simple really. Bought a few things at Tesco including a cheapo CD. (Less than a fiver). Paid for everything at the checkout and off I went. Going through the doors and off goes the alarm. Brain comes out of neutral, oops, the CD! The till person got distracted for a second and I bagged the CD after scanning but before the security cover had been taken off. No problem, soon sorted.
Certainly not an uncommon system, even in some small shops in cities. If the system is cost effective for a £5 CD then it’s certainly affordable in Government Budgets. In fact, probably far cheaper than the suggested cost of almost £100 suggested for the ID Cards the Government is so keen on.
If the ID Card carries a similar chip to the CD there is no need to have a noisy alarm system to warn you you’ve been “Scanned and located”!
Anybody want to guarantee that it could never happen? What about your Chip and Pin? Carry a mobile phone? Switch it on and you’ve been located!
Use plastic or the Web to pay for your Car Tax? How many have money due for various allowances paid into their Bank Account? End the Post Office Card so you have to have a Bank Account. Thank You Very Much! We’ve got your Bank Details and you even volunteered to give them to us with no fuss at all!
What makes people so sure that Government sources don’t already have ready access to your Plastic Trail and Bank/Credit Card transactions?
OK, unlikely, but is anybody willing to say that it absolutely is not happening, here in Britain and at the present time? Panic about flying to the US? That’s just so much Pie in the Sky by comparison!
But it does give some people an opportunity for a good rant!
Conscience
04-Jan-07, 13:48
Thankyou for recognising me as a reliable source. :lol:
Wait until they do away with the ID/Credit card chips and just put a chip straight in your arm. In 1939 it was a tattoo, in the 21st century it'll be a subdermal RFID chip (http://www.slate.com/id/2109477/).
The technology is already there and, according to a reliable source, already in very small scale use.
From the same reliable source it would seem that there very Select Clubs frequented by the Jet-Setters where, when you join, you have a chip inserted in your arm.
Saves all the messing with remembering numbers or carrying cards or hoping the Doorman recognises you. The Chip gives you automatic access, there is no need for carrying cash, no bother signing for bar bills. You just get your drinks, meals, whatever and the Chip is used to automatically record everything so you simply eventually have your bill sorted out, no doubt electronically and automatically.
Sounds too elite, expensive and complicated? How much does it get the have your pet Chipped at the Vets? How rich and posh do you have to be to be able to afford that?
I don’t see things going quite that far, at least not in the foreseeable future but the Technology already exists and is certainly not prohibitively expensive.
I got my Chip automatically scanned in Caithness during the last week. Sounds fantastic?
Simple really. Bought a few things at Tesco including a cheapo CD. (Less than a fiver). Paid for everything at the checkout and off I went. Going through the doors and off goes the alarm. Brain comes out of neutral, oops, the CD! The till person got distracted for a second and I bagged the CD after scanning but before the security cover had been taken off. No problem, soon sorted.
Certainly not an uncommon system, even in some small shops in cities. If the system is cost effective for a £5 CD then it’s certainly affordable in Government Budgets. In fact, probably far cheaper than the suggested cost of almost £100 suggested for the ID Cards the Government is so keen on.
If the ID Card carries a similar chip to the CD there is no need to have a noisy alarm system to warn you you’ve been “Scanned and located”!
Anybody want to guarantee that it could never happen? What about your Chip and Pin? Carry a mobile phone? Switch it on and you’ve been located!
Use plastic or the Web to pay for your Car Tax? How many have money due for various allowances paid into their Bank Account? End the Post Office Card so you have to have a Bank Account. Thank You Very Much! We’ve got your Bank Details and you even volunteered to give them to us with no fuss at all!
What makes people so sure that Government sources don’t already have ready access to your Plastic Trail and Bank/Credit Card transactions?
OK, unlikely, but is anybody willing to say that it absolutely is not happening, here in Britain and at the present time? Panic about flying to the US? That’s just so much Pie in the Sky by comparison!
But it does give some people an opportunity for a good rant!
Excellent reply Jaws.
The more you write on this the scarier it becomes. It will happen, at least to a certain extent anyway. It's a nightmare!! As you say, the amount of information we have already given to banks etc with no fuss - we must needs our heads read.. that'll be another thing, a machine for reading our thoughts so the government can monitor our "free speech!" Bring back the bank book, the pay packet, paying by cash, spending an hour at the checkout with the months shopping which you are convinced the cashier has added something on twice (before the days of the barcodes), etc etc.
O'h happy days...............
Thankyou for recognising me as a reliable source. :lol:So you are the BBC. I never knew that it was really only one person operation! Some people will claim credit for anything. [lol]
Conscience
04-Jan-07, 14:17
So you are the BBC. I never knew that it was really only one person operation! Some people will claim credit for anything. [lol]
Well elsewhere you rubbished the BBC as a source of information, and as I had already posted about the subdermal RFID chips I figured you were talking about me when you referred to your 'reliable source'.
Excellent reply Jaws.
The more you write on this the scarier it becomes. It will happen, at least to a certain extent anyway. It's a nightmare!! As you say, the amount of information we have already given to banks etc with no fuss - we must needs our heads read.. that'll be another thing, a machine for reading our thoughts so the government can monitor our "free speech!" Bring back the bank book, the pay packet, paying by cash, spending an hour at the checkout with the months shopping which you are convinced the cashier has added something on twice (before the days of the barcodes), etc etc.
O'h happy days...............Has anybody heard of the Audit Commission’s National Fraud Initiatives Data Matching Exercise? Or of the Audit Commission Act 1998?
Data Matching? Audit Commission? National Fraud Initiative?
Has anybody else had any information that it is seeking information about them and of the information they are demanding to be provided about them for Government Use?
But it does give some people an opportunity for a good rant!
Take a look around the world, read the history books.
We live in a bubble of time and space, a bubble of relative peace and calm but outside that bubble in other parts of the world and other times there is no peace or calm.
One day the bubble will burst, bubbles always do, maybe it will be sooner rather than later as a world devastated by man's greed can no longer support itself.
Last week we saw a violent end to a violent life, what if the technology had been there 50 years ago in Saddams rise to power? What if he had had chips planted in every Iraqi at birth and databases recording their every transaction, social reports, school records, medical records, their every movement? What if it were the govenment of China, Korea or Iran proposing this scheme wouldn't you be condemning it?
Factions that grap power in a fervour of ideology such as that following 9/11 do not last, sooner or later the people wake up and realise they've been had, they have to act fast to put an iron fist around the population if want to keep control.
Well elsewhere you rubbished the BBC as a source of information, and as I had already posted about the subdermal RFID chips I figured you were talking about me when you referred to your 'reliable source'.When I said "reliable" I was speaking in "relative terms". I'm sure I am able to come to an "unbiased" conclusion to which source I would trust most.
Where else have I "rubbished" the BBC since the beginning of last month? Perhaps, if it was before that, it was somewhere other than on the Org? I can't recall having done so in any other place or with member's who have been posting for many, many months.
Is it something I have discussed with you before you recently joined? You will have to refresh my memory on that point.
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