View Full Version : Question Time Lancaster audience suggest dumping English nuclear waste in Scotland...
...and the BBC let it air:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iXRcs-oS0E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iXRcs-oS0E
It's a stupid joke and I accept that it's probably quite funny for some people. Though when someone in Scotland says something similar the media goes crazy.
What I find interesting about this, is the often used word 'give' in terms of the Scottish Independence debate from many people in England.
Using the word 'give' as in, '...then just give them their independence' betrays the true feelings of many British/English people.
I think it means: The UK is actually England, and we the good English people will decide whether to give them (the Scots) Independence or not from the UK (defacto England) because we rule here.
As opposed to them (Scotland) properly dissolving the union as a founding member of the UK, which we proudly built with our English brothers... Better Together and all that...
I'd like to hear what a British/Scot thinks of this often used 'Ah, just give them their independence!' thing.
Does a British/Scot not feel a bit alienated from his/her British brethren when a British/English person says 'give them independence' ?
To me, it sounds like many English people see themselves as separate and dominant. In which case that begs the question, is there actually a union at all?
I've said this before and been shouted down but many English people are really pissed off about Scotland and the whole independence thing and the attitude from these people is good riddence.
There will be a lot of bridge building needed after the no vote, to get back to a respectful relationship. I blame primarily the rhetoric and sneering attitude comming from the fat fish!
For balance, I don't know about the Welsh and Northern Irish.
When i watched this, i knew it would be brought up on here today. I don't think that is the case, at all, what you say about English people thinking themselves as separate and dominant. It was one person who said this, and whilst i would have to acknowledge that others will be of the same opinion, the majority will not think like this. I would imagine some Scots will have the same opinion about English.
...and the BBC let it air:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iXRcs-oS0E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iXRcs-oS0E
Are you saying they shouldn't have let it air? Aren't you the one advocating saying anything you like regardless of who you offend. Make your mind up or is just if it doesn't offend you?
When i watched this, i knew it would be brought up on here today. I don't think that is the case, at all, what you say about English people thinking themselves as separate and dominant. It was one person who said this, and whilst i would have to acknowledge that others will be of the same opinion, the majority will not think like this. I would imagine some Scots will have the same opinion about English.
It did get applauded, plus I've seen similar turns of phrase in the media and heard it from politicians.
Are you saying they shouldn't have let it air? Aren't you the one advocating saying anything you like regardless of who you offend. Make your mind up or is just if it doesn't offend you?
That's what I'm saying and I still stick by that, as far as I'm concerned everything should be up for debate and ridicule or nothing should; nothing should be considered taboo or protected. However the BBC in the past have stopped far less contentious stuff from airing. I was judging them by their own standards and not mine. It's the hypocrisy that speaks to a bias more than anything I was pointing to.
It did get applauded, plus I've seen similar turns of phrase in the media and heard it from politicians.
That's what I'm saying and I still stick by that, as far as I'm concerned everything should be up for debate and ridicule or nothing should; nothing should be considered taboo or protected. However the BBC in the past have stopped far less contentious stuff from airing. I was judging them by their own standards and not mine. It's the hypocrisy that speaks to a bias more than anything I was pointing to.
What i am saying is that not all English think the same, also some Scots display a similar opinion of English. Such is life.
M Swanson
01-Feb-13, 11:01
I don't get this. The comment was said in humour. Besides, can you imagine what would have happened if the English had campaigned for its' Independence, from the rest of Britain? It would have been stifled at birth and everyone would have pitched in to vilify us. There's nowt on the table for us. Yet, you have your own Parliament, which is a darn sight more than we have, or are likely ever to have. I really don't get this thread at all.
I don't get this. The comment was said in humour. Besides, can you imagine what would have happened if the English had campaigned for its' Independence, from the rest of Britain? It would have been stifled at birth and everyone would have pitched in to vilify us. There's nowt on the table for us. Yet, you have your own Parliament, which is a darn sight more than we have, or are likely ever to have. I really don't get this thread at all.
The British government are on record as saying the English and England will never be given their own parliament. I would imagine many English people now see the only way for them to achieve parity with the rest of the UK is for the rest - Scotland, Wales, Ulster - to become independent.
M Swanson
01-Feb-13, 12:45
I couldn't possibly answer for anyone else Flynn, but personally, I hope that Scotland remains a part of the UK. And that's not just because of my Scots' heritage. United we all stand, divided we fall!
...and the BBC let it air:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iXRcs-oS0E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iXRcs-oS0E
Actually not a bad idea. Money for old rope I'd say.
Green_not_greed
01-Feb-13, 13:21
I'm with Rheghed on this one.....Dump England's nuclear waste in Scotland......what a great idea !
After all, think about....
(1) the considerable economic benefits and huge number of construction employment jobs
(2) Scotland has got tons more spare and free land than anywhere else in the UK, so why not use it ?
(3) compared to continued storage, a final, properly engineered solution to the nuclear waste is far better for the environment.
Exactly the same arguments used to cover Scotland in wind turbines! I'm sure the SNP will lap it up........
An interesting comment can be found here
http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/letters/an-independent-scotland-would-not-break-away-from-the-uk.20071529
and to sum it up - "If Scotland votes for independence next year, it will not "break away" from the United Kingdom, leaving the remainder still extant. It will withdraw from the 1707 Treaty of Union and, as a result, the UK will cease to exist as a legal entity in international constitutional law. As the one remaining party to the treaty, England (incorporating Wales and Northern Ireland) cannot simply assume continued ownership of the title UK with all that entails."
In Scotland right now we follow the nuclear policy of 'waste not, want not'. Lol
newweecroft
01-Feb-13, 15:47
Where did the nuclear materials from dounray get dumped? Not Cumbria was it?
was said totally togue in cheek, ding ding all aboard the offended bus.
MerlinScot
01-Feb-13, 18:47
Dounreay waste is under there and it will always be. I guess that to each... Its own nuclear waste lolI saw on BBC that Cumbria council refused the plan for the nuclear waste after 4 years, so it wasn't ever (seriously) taken into consideration to relocate it up north.As this bad consideration about English people versus Scots I never heard such a thing from English people directly (excluding the nuts online who still thinks the British Empire exists...) while I came across several Scots expressing their dislike for the English. To a foreigner that sounds quite weird because Scotland signed the Union in 1707 and received money for it too. So while the hatred against the English is historical and I can see where it comes from, the hatred against the Union sounds strange because it was part of a contract negotiated by the Scottish Parliament.
To a foreigner that sounds quite weird because Scotland signed the Union in 1707 and received money for it too. So while the hatred against the English is historical and I can see where it comes from, the hatred against the Union sounds strange because it was part of a contract negotiated by the Scottish Parliament.
Scotland as a whole never received money for agreeing to sign the Union, but a few southern Scottish noblemen did, they were paid in bribes Daniel Defoe was the main briber. The 2nd Duke of Queensbury was paid £12,235 to push through the Treaty. The night the Treaty was signed his eldest son Lord Drumlanrig who was insane killed a spit boy and roasted him and was caught eatting the boy when his father returned, some say poetic justice?
There is no anti english rhetoric being used as part of the YesScotland campaign.
As an English woman writing and blogging about Independence you should see the on linecomments I get from those who disagree with me online. It would make your toes curl. I have twice been subjected to anti english comments face to face since I started on this merry go round, both were from people who were NOT Independence supporters. one got up specially from where he had been listening into a conversation I was having with a friend in a coffee shop to walk over, tell me that Scottish Independence was not my business and I should take my YES vote and shove it up my clearly very ENGLISH behind as I shouldnt be allowed to even VOTE.
The reality is, of course that people talk about this stuff with their pals when they feel like it. Tomorrow night we are having our annual Burns Party. If you are at a loose end you might want to join us. 70+ of our friends, english, scottish, polish, lithuanian, african, south african, german, spanish wherever they are from will discuss the referendum and a million other things. There are YES voters, NO voters, undecideds, dont cares, who cares, communists, anarchists, scientists, writers, labourers, shopworkers, actors, mums, dads, children all enjoying each others company and learning from each other. We all get on, we all have a giggle and there are no rivers of english blood flowing out the door at the end of the day. No matter how hard people try to make this referendum about ethnicity ..... It isnt.
The man on QT last night was a numpty .... We have them in Lancashire too. It will be forgotten in a couple of weeks just like him.
There is no anti english rhetoric being used as part of the YesScotland campaign.
Do yo listen to Eck through some kind of filter?
Do yo listen to Eck through some kind of filter?She goes back to her daily SNP afternoon ladies meetings with all the topics which she can't answer, they discuss them and then they come up with a BS answer that complies with head office. She then comes back to relay the message.
I was actually talking about the yes campaign but go on.... Find me some .... Anti English racist comments made by yes campaign or 'eck'. Not Anti- westminster or anti Uk ... This is an independence campaign it does not support westminster or support continuing as part of the UK. I mean anti english people comments. And not from 20 years ago.
She goes back to her daily SNP afternoon ladies meetings with all the topics which she can't answer, they discuss them and then they come up with a BS answer that complies with head office. She then comes back to relay the message. I take my knitting and my crochet too ... the girls are really good at those granny squares you like so much for your little warm waistcoats you like so much Rheg... were the yellow ones to your liking? Yellow is just your colour. You are soooooo brave and superior behind a keyboard, and so witty that it makes me shiver a little with awe. I also have horns and a wee forky tail as well and i take those who spout nasty patronising male chauvenist piggery, chew them up into little pieces and spit them out .... Sweetie.
Keyser_soze
02-Feb-13, 00:17
I've said this before and been shouted down but many English people are really pissed off about Scotland and the whole independence thing and the attitude from these people is good riddence.
There will be a lot of bridge building needed after the no vote, to get back to a respectful relationship. I blame primarily the rhetoric and sneering attitude comming from the fat fish!
For balance, I don't know about the Welsh and Northern Irish.
Well said, fat cod eyed clown indeed
WILL you all stop throwing your toys out of the pram!
So far I have seen NO serious attempts by any party to explain why we will be better as an independent state or not and if the recent stupid pronouncements by The SNP are to be taken seriously then I think we are on the road to perdition or something even fishier!
piratelassie
02-Feb-13, 01:21
In the past I have been accused of being anti English. This is not the case, but I am anti Westminster because under Westminster rule it is obvious we in Scotland, are short changed. The reason for this is English self interest simply through numerical voting.
English self interest simply through numerical voting.This is surely an oxymoron???
You have views, strong views. And I respect them.
But numerical voting on self interest, I don't get it. Especially when you consider the turnout & demographics of any election in the 'Scottish, Welsh, English & Northern Ireland' geographic area. (Is that politically correct? Or should I just say UK?)
piratelassie
02-Feb-13, 02:44
Scotland is GIVEN its budget from London through the Barnet formula, this formula was set up in London, need I say more?
Scotland is GIVEN its budget from London through the Barnet formula, this formula was set up in London, need I say more?Errrm yeah. Since when do any 'English' voters get a say in the Barnet formula? That's like punching a passing Scandinavian for the Viking invasions. Or is it a case of being anti English instead of Pro Independent Scotland?
With ALL voting there is an element of self interest.... What will be best for my family and the place I live. I dont think the way the Barnet Formula is calculated features in the minds of voters in English Constituencies to the degree that they vote to influence the way it is worked out. I would be surprised if even half of the voters. In England even know what it is. That isnt an insult, just an observation. There are many voters in Scotland who wouldnt know either.people vote for the party which most closely fits their own opinions, hopes and aspirations and their view of the society we live in.
It was a joke pure and simple, not far removed from the old "keep Scotland tidy, throw your rubbish in England" banter. I've seen car stickers and t-shirts with that joke printed on them. It's not worth being offended over, laugh about it and move on.
I was actually talking about the yes campaign but go on.... Find me some .... Anti English racist comments made by yes campaign or 'eck'. Not Anti- westminster or anti Uk ... This is an independence campaign it does not support westminster or support continuing as part of the UK. I mean anti english people comments. And not from 20 years ago.
I support the UK government, I support and am a proud citizen of the UK. When it is sneered at I am insulted. Notwithstanding (and we've discussed this before) much anti English too! Some of 'em stilll haven't read the memo. :Razz
Lets see, you are posting on a thread which is full of people saying that those people living in Scotland shouldn't be offended by a throwaway comment on QT and yet you are saying that you are offended by comments which identify the failings in the UK? You suggested that The YES campaign and Alex Salmond are anti english and I asked you for some examples. Have you got any?
The reason for this is English self interest simply through numerical voting.
Really? Then how do you explain the West Lothian question? No English constituency MP can vote on matters pertaining solely to Scotland, but Scots constituency MPs can vote on matters pertaining solely to England.
Really? Then how do you explain the West Lothian question? No English constituency MP can vote on matters pertaining solely to Scotland, but Scots constituency MPs can vote on matters pertaining solely to England. its a complete anomaly and doesnt make any sense. If there is YES vote in the referendum this will no longer be an issue.
its a complete anomaly and doesnt make any sense. If there is YES vote in the referendum this will no longer be an issue.
The damage is already done. Many Scots MPs voted in favour of tuition fees in England, and voted against tuition fees in Scotland, voted in favour of prescription fees in England and against in Scotland. I'd say the English have more grounds for grievance than Piratelassie thinks.
The Scottish MPs may have voted for tuition fees but it was Scottish MSPs that voted to retain free tuition fees. The same with prescription charges. They are two seperate places with two seperate bodies of elected representatives. This was not the same people voting two different ways in two different places. The Scottish Parliament set its priorities and Westminster set its priorities according to the parties that are in control.
In the past I have been accused of being anti English. This is not the case, but I am anti Westminster because under Westminster rule it is obvious we in Scotland, are short changed. The reason for this is English self interest simply through numerical voting.
I can hardly type for laughing and I'm surprised you can actually type due to the large chip you seem to have
on your shoulder:lol:
The Scottish MPs may have voted for tuition fees but it was Scottish MSPs that voted to retain free tuition fees. The same with prescription charges. They are two seperate places with two seperate bodies of elected representatives. This was not the same people voting two different ways in two different places. The Scottish Parliament set its priorities and Westminster set its priorities according to the parties that are in control.
The fact remains that English students would not have to pay tuition fees were it not for the votes of Scottish MPs. How many English MPs could vote on tuition fees in Scotland? Zero.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3432767.stm
In the past I have been accused of being anti English. This is not the case, but I am anti Westminster because under Westminster rule it is obvious we in Scotland, are short changed. The reason for this is English self interest simply through numerical voting.
Can hardly type for laughing, I'm surprised you can actually type with the large chip you have on your shoulder
The fact remains that English students would not have to pay tuition fees were it not for the votes of Scottish MPs. How many English MPs could vote on tuition fees in Scotland? Zero.http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3432767.stmLets see, Tuition fees have always been free in Scotland. The Westminster parliament introduced Tuition fees, the Scottish Parliament did not. The Westminster Parliament legislated that Students from England should pay fees to attend university in any university in the UK. Holyrood did not. I think it is appalling that labour MPs voted for tuition fees full stop. But lets lay the blame where it is due.... Scotland's position on tuition fees never changed and I think the West Lothian issue is daft. It needs to change and will do so if we secure a YES vote.
Lets see, Tuition fees have always been free in Scotland. The Westminster parliament introduced Tuition fees, the Scottish Parliament did not. The Westminster Parliament legislated that Students from England should pay fees to attend university in any university in the UK. Holyrood did not. I think it is appalling that labour MPs voted for tuition fees full stop. But lets lay the blame where it is due.... Scotland's position on tuition fees never changed.
Has Holyrood over-ruled and said English students can study for free in Scotland? No. Yet students from elsewhere in the EU can still study for free.
Lets see, you are posting on a thread which is full of people saying that those people living in Scotland shouldn't be offended by a throwaway comment on QT and yet you are saying that you are offended by comments which identify the failings in the UK? You suggested that The YES campaign and Alex Salmond are anti english and I asked you for some examples. Have you got any?
Identify the failings of the UK in someone's opinion . And it isn't that, it is the sneering attitude eye rolling etc. that goes with it. I watch FM's questions and would like to throw things at the telly (except it is my telly and that would be daft). Roll on the no vote so we can consign all this clap to history! Get rid of Salmond and his cronies, and start to actually do something to inprove all the things you want to improve but are waiting for a silly vote.
So nothing then. I too watch FMQs .... All the parties make me shake my head with disbelief. But that is not racism or anti english rhetoric Ducati, its point scoring and debate. And so my point still stands. The anti independence argument is devalued by the racism card. Its nonsense. Flynn, here is an interesting article on the legalities of the issue but you know, the answer to both the West Lothian Question and the Tuition fees issue could very well be a YES vote.
http://m.guardian.co.uk/law/2011/aug/24/scotland-university-fees-human-rights
MerlinScot
02-Feb-13, 13:15
Scotland as a whole never received money for agreeing to sign the Union, but a few southern Scottish noblemen did, they were paid in bribes Daniel Defoe was the main briber. The 2nd Duke of Queensbury was paid £12,235 to push through the Treaty. The night the Treaty was signed his eldest son Lord Drumlanrig who was insane killed a spit boy and roasted him and was caught eatting the boy when his father returned, some say poetic justice?
Scotland as a whole received nearly £ 400.000 through the negotations (I recommend you to read "The Scots and The Union" by C. A Whatley, Professor of History at Dundee Uni). If you implied "not common people", sorry... but are you receiving money from Westminster even today?
The fairy tale that "Scotland was bribed for gold" as Burns would have put it..is a fairy tale, indeed.
Read Scottish history well.
MerlinScot
02-Feb-13, 13:25
Has Holyrood over-ruled and said English students can study for free in Scotland? No. Yet students from elsewhere in the EU can still study for free.
That's funny because it is something I had to experience directly... When I applied for a BA in Scotland, I was asked repeatedly if I had lived for at least 3 years in Scotland or the EU. I don't remember exactly the words (I didn't have a very good English back then), but the employee said something similar to "well, the important thing is that you never resided in England". At that time I thought 'how weird' the comment was but recently I went into a debate about independence and I found out that now my own uni charges nearly 8,000 £ to Northern Irish, English and Welsh students while... I never paid a penny for it.
@squidge, I think you're right and wrong.
Right, because many YesScotland supporters aren't anti-English, you're also wrong because some of them are. I can believe what you're telling me about meetings where any foreigner is welcome, I also found some supporters that showed their dislike to me face to face.
secrets in symmetry
02-Feb-13, 13:38
Scotland had tuition fees for many years. They were £1000 a year in the late 1990s and early 2000s. Then the LibDems in Holyrood made a deal with Labour to reduce them to the Graduate Endowment, a £2000 one-off fee which was due on graduation. I don't know what happened to those that didn't get as far as graduation.
MerlinScot
02-Feb-13, 13:46
Nowadays is around £ 1850 pa for every Scottish or EU citizen. You can get them paid through SAAS if you apply for the exemption between April and June (and if you have already a place at any Scottish university). This is only for full time students though, part-time and online tuition fees are paid by the applicant.
In case you don't complete the year, even as a full time student, you have to give back the money to SAAS, all of it (which is fair, if you are failure at what you're studying it is not their fault...) unless you have mitigating circumstances.
secrets in symmetry
02-Feb-13, 13:50
Thanks Merlin.
The Graduate Endowment was abolished in 2008.
but are you receiving money from Westminster even today?
The fairy tale that "Scotland was bribed for gold" as Burns would have put it..is a fairy tale, indeed.
Read Scottish history well.
I am indeed in receipt of money from Westminster......My HM Customs and Excise pension every month [lol] And am very grateful for it.
Ah SIS you are right. I started a degree course in 2003 and did indeed have a £1000 fee to pay. MerlinScot there are unpleasant people in every walk of life. My husband handing out Yes leaflets last weekend was verbally abused a couple of times. You only need to read some of the rubbish spouted on some of yhe worst unionist pages on the internet. There are EDL, sdl, football pages, the worst are the Scots/irish Loyalist pages. There is even a page where they post pictures oc people taking part in independence events, Tuc events, Support for Palestine events, anti benefit cuts demonstrations and asking if anyone can identify and locate these 'communists/leftist' traitors. The Independence movement is not ethnically inspired.... It is about democracy not nationality and it is not a racist anti english movement.
M Swanson
02-Feb-13, 15:15
So what group do you belong to Squidge? And does it have a website I can visit?
secrets in symmetry
02-Feb-13, 15:18
It's a stupid joke and I accept that it's probably quite funny for some people. Though when someone in Scotland says something similar the media goes crazy.
What I find interesting about this, is the often used word 'give' in terms of the Scottish Independence debate from many people in England.
Using the word 'give' as in, '...then just give them their independence' betrays the true feelings of many British/English people.
I think it means: The UK is actually England, and we the good English people will decide whether to give them (the Scots) Independence or not from the UK (defacto England) because we rule here.
As opposed to them (Scotland) properly dissolving the union as a founding member of the UK, which we proudly built with our English brothers... Better Together and all that...
I'd like to hear what a British/Scot thinks of this often used 'Ah, just give them their independence!' thing.
Does a British/Scot not feel a bit alienated from his/her British brethren when a British/English person says 'give them independence' ?
To me, it sounds like many English people see themselves as separate and dominant. In which case that begs the question, is there actually a union at all?Perhaps you should ask your doctor to give you something for your paranoia. Prescriptions are free here you know! :cool:
So what group do you belong to Squidge? And does it have a website I can visit?I dont belong to any political party, i have attended YES Highland meetings, which had all sorts of people there... The next one is on 23rd Feb in the Spectrum Centre in Inverness. They have a facebook page which should have details of meetings in Caithness. I am also a member of Women for Independence which is a cross party group looking at Independence and how women can be part of the debate. Let me know if you are a woman and want details.
MerlinScot
02-Feb-13, 18:04
I dont belong to any political party, i have attended YES Highland meetings, which had all sorts of people there... The next one is on 23rd Feb in the Spectrum Centre in Inverness. They have a facebook page which should have details of meetings in Caithness. I am also a member of Women for Independence which is a cross party group looking at Independence and how women can be part of the debate. Let me know if you are a woman and want details.
Squidge, I've been harassed by members of YesScotland online (I don't remember on which forum or on the FB group) and someone left a very unpleasant comment "Once we've the independence you EU scroungers will all be kicked off the country".
Unpleasant people are on both sides, unionists and independentists.
Is there a group "Women on indipendence" on Facebook or on twitter so I can follow?
M Swanson
02-Feb-13, 20:13
I dont belong to any political party, i have attended YES Highland meetings, which had all sorts of people there... The next one is on 23rd Feb in the Spectrum Centre in Inverness. They have a facebook page which should have details of meetings in Caithness. I am also a member of Women for Independence which is a cross party group looking at Independence and how women can be part of the debate. Let me know if you are a woman and want details.
Thanks for the heads-up, Squidge. I really don't know the pro's and cons, for Scots who have to decide what to vote for in the referendum. But I'm interested in reading of the role women can play and will certainly visit Women for Independence. I believe women can make a difference in these debates and am reminded of the Irish lady who made such a difference in the Northern Ireland peace process. I'm really only an interested onlooker, because I've always lived in England, but I do hope that whatever the outcome, it's the best possible deal for Scots.
Whoops! Meant to add, that I can't follow the debate on FB, because I'm not a member and don't want to be. :D
secrets in symmetry
02-Feb-13, 20:48
Squidge, I've been harassed by members of YesScotland online (I don't remember on which forum or on the FB group) and someone left a very unpleasant comment "Once we've the independence you EU scroungers will all be kicked off the country".That's not only typical of secessionists, it's almost a requirement. They're a horrible bunch.
The Women for Independence lot are just as bad. Their leaders are political leftovers with no hope of mainstream political success. One of them is a jailbird. They recruit intellectually-challenged and uneducated housewives, who post fluffy nothings about making a better country for their families and their children. It's a propaganda machine. It's not as bad as the Third Reich, but the idea is the same, and the outcome for Scotland would be atrocious. There's not one of them can see beyond the pound that they believe Scotland gains from the Union lol.
M Swanson
02-Feb-13, 21:05
Oh! Right! Sis. Can you give us a link to support these statements, please? I've only briefly read a couple of pages from WFI and there's not a hint of what you describe.
Another question if you please? It seems obvious to me that the Scots voters are totally disillusioned with the Lib/Lab/Con parties and maybe the SNP were elected by default. If this is so, where does it leave the people to go, should Salmond and Co lose the referendum and faith of the voters? Is there any opposition to the SNP? An alternative maybe? For Scotland's sake, I do hope so!
piratelassie
02-Feb-13, 21:17
Can hardly type for laughing, I'm surprised you can actually type with the large chip you have on your shoulder
No chip, just want my birthright, to be governed frgm my own capital city, if that,s a chip then so be it.
piratelassie
02-Feb-13, 21:30
It does indeed seem that the no campaign persists in calling the yes camp anti English. The Yes camp is anti Westminster, can they not tell the difference?
It does indeed seem that the no campaign persists in calling the yes camp anti English. The Yes camp is anti Westminster, can they not tell the difference?
Then maybe you should start directing your ire at the Westminster government and not 'the English' every time you open your trap.
It does indeed seem that the no campaign persists in calling the yes camp anti English. The Yes camp is anti Westminster, can they not tell the difference?
Is that the same Westminster which oversaw the flourishing of Scottish fortunes from 1707 to the present day? Is that the same Westminster which houses more Scottish MPs proportionally to other MPs than the ratio of Scottish persons to the population of the UK? Is that the same Westminister that has seen disproportionally more Scottish primeministers than English primeministers?
I dont belong to any political party, i have attended YES Highland meetings, which had all sorts of people there... The next one is on 23rd Feb in the Spectrum Centre in Inverness. They have a facebook page which should have details of meetings in Caithness. I am also a member of Women for Independence which is a cross party group looking at Independence and how women can be part of the debate. Let me know if you are a woman and want details.
No thanks. I don't do Facebook.
MerlinScot
02-Feb-13, 21:43
It does indeed seem that the no campaign persists in calling the yes camp anti English. The Yes camp is anti Westminster, can they not tell the difference?Many people can't tell the difference between Scottish and English people, now you pretend everybody knows the difference between anti-westminster and anti-English?Too complicated.:cool:
No chip, just want my birthright, to be governed frgm my own capital city, if that,s a chip then so be it.Out of curiosity, if..... IF politicians were to be honest and for arguments sake they said: "We can have an independent Scotland but it will cost billions, taxes will go up, services cut, wages down, unemployment up but we'll be independent".
Would you still want your birthright even if it was to damage Scotland?
No chip, just want my birthright, to be governed frgm my own capital city, if that,s a chip then so be it.
Your birthright??? You were born in the UK. The Union of the Parliaments happened in 1707 long before you were born, where are your birthrights laid down? Your British whether you like it or not, learn to live with it.
piratelassie
03-Feb-13, 00:22
Yes indeed.
Is that the same Westminster which oversaw the flourishing of Scottish fortunes from 1707 to the present day? Is that the same Westminster which houses more Scottish MPs proportionally to other MPs than the ratio of Scottish persons to the population of the UK? Is that the same Westminister that has seen disproportionally more Scottish primeministers than English primeministers?
That's not only typical of secessionists, it's almost a requirement. They're a horrible bunch.The Women for Independence lot are just as bad. Their leaders are political leftovers with no hope of mainstream political success. One of them is a jailbird. They recruit intellectually-challenged and uneducated housewives, who post fluffy nothings about making a better country for their families and their children. It's a propaganda machine. It's not as bad as the Third Reich, but the idea is the same, and the outcome for Scotland would be atrocious. There's not one of them can see beyond the pound that they believe Scotland gains from the Union lol.
Ahhhh I wondered how long it would take for SIS to appear from behind his one liners with another nasty mean patronising dig or two. Secrets.... I wonder what yours are.... Carolyne Leckie doesnt appear to make a secret of the fact she was jailed in 2005 for refusing to pay a fine she received when participating in an Anti Nuclear demonstration at Faslane. It is after all here
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carolyn_Leckie#section_2
The group really doesnt really have ' leaders' as such. The women involved in its formation include members of several different parties including SSP, SNP and the Labour party as well as those with no Political Affiliation. It even includes some 'housewives' (we actually get to vote as well as to have an opinion these days SIS) along with journalists, teachers, academics, health workers and an economist or two.
As for intellectually challenged and ... What was the word ... Oh yes... Uneducated... well thats may be the view of Secrets and his bookend .... Symmetry indeed, to be so patronised by two self proclaimed intellectual heavyweights in one thread. I have no idea why my posts cause such frothing at the mouth and such a desire to put the little woman in her place. But I am sure it makes a change from fantasising about women they see but are unable to pluck up the courage to actually SPEAK to, oh and lets not forget planning gruesome ways to kill people who disagree with their political views and then compare women for independence with the third reich.... You couldnt make it up!!! But then its just a joke. Thats absolutely right .... A complete and utter joke of a post!
Forgive me for laughing.
Hopes and Aspirations for a better society may be just that but the BetterTogether campaign offers NO hope and NO aspirations for anything better at all. We surely all want a better society whichever side of the debate we are on and it is up to us to work for that better life, I will do that whether there is a YES or a NO vote and Ill not let those who perhaps would prefer I kept to cooking the dinner and having babies shut me up.
Jailbirds and dreamers, what a combination to build a nation.
Nations have been built on jailbirds and dreamers before lol. Last night there were 97 people in my house. There were dreamers, there may have been a couple of jailbirds lurking there there who knows lol. there were pro and anti independence debates going on all over the place, there was talk of childeen, sex, love, religion, there was laughter, cheering, singing and singing and singing. The youngest was 8 months, the oldest 80 and all ages inbetween. The first arrived at 4.30 and the last are still here today although most had left by 3am. People with vision, many with fears, all with their hopes, we toasted Rabbie Burns, we ate well, drank well and you know what...... We looked forward.... You lot can be cynical, miserable, visionless nonentities... Me? Im going to work for better for everyone, even you lot of little boys playing mean games in the playground. If the vote is No then I will work with that but I hope we get a YES vote so we have the power to change the things that need changing.
If the vote is No then I will work with that but I hope we get a YES vote so we have the power to change the things that need changing.
Even when all the social and economic arguments are not in your favor, if independence be the food of delusion, dream on.
MerlinScot
03-Feb-13, 15:32
Even when all the social and economic arguments are not in your favor, if independence be the food of delusion, dream on.
Mmm... not agreeing with that one, she's entitled to her dreams and also to fight for something she thinks it is right without being called a deluded person.
For what we know, Eck could win... ;)
It is funny that historically speaking, Scotland was independent for many centuries and when Scots were not fighting against the English for independence, they resorted to fight against each other.
Eck and his party might fight against each other for the North Sea oil after 2014.....
There's nothing deluded about north sea oil resources dwindling away. There's nothing deluded about the ban on no more new nuclear. There nothing deluded about the botched up European position of Scotlandand Alex Salmond's attempt to fool us over it. Oh i could go on and on.
Even when all you have is nasty mean minded sniping and a lack of any sort of vision, if you find comfort in the chauvinistic put downs of little men then take your refuge there. You can slap each other on the back and congratulate yourselves on putting the pathetic into apathetic and making utterly no difference to anything at all.
Even when all you have is nasty mean minded sniping and a lack of any sort of vision, if you find comfort in the chauvinistic put downs of little men then take your refuge there. You can slap each other on the back and congratulate yourselves on putting the pathetic into apathetic and making utterly no difference to anything at all.
And that comment isn't a chauvinistic put down?
Flynn, i damn well hope it is. Im sure the bookends aren't bothered. They are far to smart to be offended by someone they perceive as a silly wee wifie who they think has such a struggle with the big issues of the day.
I am sorry if I didnt smile sweetly and flutter my eyelashes whilst giggling, slapping them on the shoulder and saying "Oooh you are awful but I like you". See this is 2012 not 1970. Women have voices and can stand up for themselves, even fluffy housewives......
Well, joining a Women for Independence group is not putting women right at the heart of the independence debate or empowering women in any way. Just join the many independence parties or independence groups where both men and women can shout to the rooftops about their dreams. If you want equality, then fight for it, being apart never helped anything.
Well, joining a Women for Independence group is not putting women right at the heart of the independence debate or empowering women in any way. Just join the many independence parties or independence groups where both men and women can shout to the rooftops about their dreams. If you want equality, then fight for it, being apart never helped anything.Rheghead, you have had issues with this since it was first mentioned. Its not a closed shop, you can be part of the whole debate AND a member of a special interest group. So I can and do take part in debates, events, conferences organised by a whole range of political, non political and cross party groups and be part of an organisation that examines issues that are important to me. I stand shoulder to shoulder with men and women in supporting Independence and but I AM interested in exploring the issues affecting women in particular. Especially within welfare provision, women's health and maternity and breast feeding provision. Although these are areas where i have special interest they are not the sum total of my interests. You are interested in renewables but is that ALL you are interested in? Maybe it is but I am not that one dimensional. I really dont understand why you hate the idea so much, there are plenty of special interest groups within both sides of the debate.
I really dont understand why you hate the idea so much.
It is pigeon holing. Easy to ignore. Easy to sideline. Easy to walk past.
It is as daft/stupid as having a Men's group for independence. It is so daft you'd want to ignore that one.:roll:
It is pigeon holing. Easy to ignore. Easy to sideline. Easy to walk past.It is as daft/stupid as having a Men's group for independence. It is so daft you'd want to ignore that one.:roll:I might not want to be a member but I woudnt WANT to ignore it or patronise it, or belittle it. I would WANT to know what they thought, I would be open to ideas and suggestions and opinions and I would expect that they could contribute to the debate. I would be interested to hear what they had to say. Maybe thats the difference between you and I. I think that EVERYONE has something interesting to contribute. I am interested in some specific issues which affect women particularly.... How to encourage women to be more vocal or involved in the debate for example. Although when you read some of the aggressive responses that there have been on this thread its no wonder women are turned off by the debate.
How to encourage women to be more vocal
Are you being serious???
Are you being serious???Erm..... Yes?
Erm..... Yes?
You are guaranteed success then.
You are guaranteed success then.I dont know what that is supposed to mean. Guaranteed success with encouraging women to become involved? Nothing is guaranteed Rheg. Mostly things take work and time and effort.
This is coming along jolly nicely.
So, if I understand it correctly the only people / party who have any say and worth in the Independence debate are the SNP and anyone else with any other affiliations or similar views are just written off.
Oh dear!
I dont know what that is supposed to mean.
I thought women were the most natural communicators? Now your political movement involves encouraging the inevitable.
Oh lol I see, sigh....just for you i will clarify. You may believe that women are the most natural communicators and indeed you might be right... I dont know. However it remains true that women are under represented in politics at all levels and within the Independence debate as well. Women for Independence are interested in understanding why this may be and encouraging women to become involved in the debate and in politics in general. Doing that depends on talking to and most importantly listening to the fears and aspirations of other women and examining ways in which the barriers to involvement can be removed.
It does indeed seem that the no campaign persists in calling the yes camp anti English. The Yes camp is anti Westminster, can they not tell the difference?
I don't think the yes camp are anti English reading posts from squidge I would she was not
It's a bit strange that a few people on here have the same opinion of you, maybe you need to change the way you
put your point across
(No chip, just want my birthright) what does this mean?
Thread drifting on this one to save a non Indy thread going Indy.
On the 'Millons Handout' (http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?196842-Millions-hand-out) thread some seem frustrated at the UK's EU compliance and paying benefits to outside of the UK.
In an independent Scotland the same would (apparently) apply. How many actually realise this about some of the 'Westminster' spending.
I get so slagged off for our Women for Independence Group so I was interested to find there is a Women for the Union group too.
http://ladiesleaderslunch.com/
Their website says
Our aim is to gather a host of Scotland's high profile female industry leaders, creatives, academics and emerging talent who support a United Kingdom. This isn't intended to be a political rally by any means. It's an opportunity to network and hear first hand from our keynote speaker, the Home Secretary Theresa May MP. It's an opportunity to celebrate our patriotism and our pride at being part of a United Kingdom. Think of it as a little politics, fashion and facts! It's an opportunity to discuss, debate and question what is right for our nation, whilst indulging in a little glamour in intimate surroundings.
It appears you can bring your jewellery and have it cleaned whilst you network and enjoy you £150 lunch. Puts my coffee mornings to shame.
I get so slagged off for our Women for Independence Group so I was interested to find there is a Women for the Union group too.
http://ladiesleaderslunch.com/
Their website says
It appears you can bring your jewellery and have it cleaned whilst you network and enjoy you £150 lunch. Puts my coffee mornings to shame.
Just goes to show the reasonably well of want to stay that way and don't believe an independent Scotland will be conducive. Neither do I.
Just goes to show the reasonably well of want to stay that way and don't believe an independent Scotland will be conducive. Neither do I.
Maybe it won't be conducive to them, but I don't really care about them.
I want a fairer society run for the benefit of all, not just the rich & the way I see it is that it is extremely unlikely to happen with the country being run from Westminster & more likely to happen when run from Holyrood.
Yes... I know that there are no guarantees but I am just weighing up the odds as I see them.
Maybe it won't be conducive to them, but I don't really care about them.
I want a fairer society run for the benefit of all, not just the rich & the way I see it is that it is extremely unlikely to happen with the country being run from Westminster & more likely to happen when run from Holyrood.
Yes... I know that there are no guarantees but I am just weighing up the odds as I see them.
Good for you. We have reasons to hope for a different outcome.
These workers won't be very well off: http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?197230-Committee-Raises-Fears-for-Ship-Building-Jobs-If-Independence-Goes-Ahead
Maybe it won't be conducive to them, but I don't really care about them.
I want a fairer society run for the benefit of me, not just the rich & the way I see it is that it is extremely unlikely to happen with the country being run from Westminster & more likely to happen when run from Holyrood.
Yes... I know that there are no guarantees but I am just weighing up the odds as I see them.
Sorry, mean't to sort this out for you earlier and got distracted. :roll:
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