View Full Version : Benefits
http://money.aol.co.uk/2013/01/29/59-say-government-should-say-how-benefits-are-spent/?icid=maing-grid7|ukt2|dl14|sec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D150026 putting this on so everyone on benefits can see :) went into my aol this morning and it was there in the news bit
As if people on benefits weren't stigmatised and vilified enough by this damnable government.
I do agree but i can see many problems and a steep rise in crime such as the dishonest doleys & druggies starting to steal to feed their addictions, alcoholics abusing shop staff when they wont sell alcohol to the card holder, people buying stuff off the card and then selling it on so they can buy what they want albeit at a huge loss etc even loss of internet access and telephones because people dont have the cash to pay the bill (even though a phone/internet in some cases is required to find work) but thats just my opinion if it counts in any way
I do agree but i can see many problems and a steep rise in crime such as the dishonest doleys & druggies starting to steal to feed their addictions, alcoholics abusing shop staff when they wont sell alcohol to the card holder, people buying stuff off the card and then selling it on so they can buy what they want albeit at a huge loss etc even loss of internet access and telephones because people dont have the cash to pay the bill (even though a phone/internet in some cases is required to find work) but thats just my opinion if it counts in any way
If anyone getting £71 a week JSA can afford to drink, smoke, gamble, and a Sky subscription, then maybe they should take Osborne's job. Because they can clearly budget much better than he can.
Here's the truth: Annual benefit fraud = £1.5billion. Annual tax fraud = £70billion plus. And yet the tories have managed to divide the unemployed poor from the working poor and turn the working poor against the unemployed poor, while they blame all the country's problems on the poor.
It's sickening.
My husband said nd stated a good enough point, What if the people on benefits need to buy a new sofa or something like tht for their houses, how are they meant to buy second hand stuff esp as they wont be able to afford brand new stuff, Also them telling u what u can spend ur money on is also stupid!
If anyone getting £71 a week JSA can afford to drink, smoke, gamble, and a Sky subscription, then maybe they should take Osborne's job.
But thats just it, thats a few of the problems. How many times have you passed a bookies and seen doleys in having a bet, or been in the pub and seen doleys pissed. Theres plenty in Wick i can tell you and one in particular i know even gets a taxi home from the pub when he is pissed at least 3-4 times a week......not bad on £71 a week. I made the mistake of subbing him a few quid for a beer and he promptly phoned a taxi home. Such a mug i was, never again
M Swanson
30-Jan-13, 16:39
Yes, I can see where you're coming from Shaggy. I ask you, who are the mugs?
You may like to take a look at this link, that exposes one, of so many, young couples and their attitude to the prospect of actually working for a living. I watched this couple being interviewed by Philip Schofield and was appalled by their unwillingness to seek work. Let me say, I live nearby to them and there IS work, if someone wants to support themselves and their family. The man's father owns his own business and is doing very well so I wonder why he wouldn't employ his son? Mother's a teacher, who obviously hasn't been successful in instilling her son with a work ethic. Still, it's not surprising really, when the State gives them a subsidised home, free everything and £340 a week for doing NOTHING. Please don't think I'm a Mail groupie, but yet again, other rags like the Guardian don't even run the story. No surprises there, then. Keep working hard to support the dossers, people, whilst you struggle to make ends meet. Grrrrr!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2270247/ITV-This-Morning-Couple-living-17k-handouts-say-working-minimum-wage-unfair.html
If anyone getting £71 a week JSA can afford to drink, smoke, gamble, and a Sky subscription, then maybe they should take Osborne's job. Because they can clearly budget much better than he can.
Here's the truth: Annual benefit fraud = £1.5billion. Annual tax fraud = £70billion plus. And yet the tories have managed to divide the unemployed poor from the working poor and turn the working poor against the unemployed poor, while they blame all the country's problems on the poor.
It's sickening. well said flynn, it will soon be a crime to be old, disabled or unemployed. Not one person on here can discount becoming one of the above, (old, disabled or unemployed). The government are pulling the life-line out from under us all and turning us against each other. Why don`t they start too concentrate on the tax dodgers and mp`s fiddling their expenses and save more money.
Royal Bank of Scotland has been fined half a billion pounds for fiddling the LIBOR Rate (a criminal offense) yet no prosecutions pending,bankers seem to be able to commit fraud on a massive scale and get away with it and still get huge bonuses.
But thats just it, thats a few of the problems. How many times have you passed a bookies and seen doleys in having a bet, or been in the pub and seen doleys pissed.
Have they got 'doley' written on them? So judgemental. Anyone can end up unemployed these days, do they immediately become a 'scrounger' in your eyes? Respectable member of society one day, scrounger the next?
I would suggest you reserve your ire for those milking the situation - the billionaire tax evaders, the banks, the speculators.
Southern-Gal
30-Jan-13, 18:38
I dont think that the government should tell them how to spend their money after their bills have been paid. Fair enough to take out their rent, community charge, utilities and so on they could be pre paid by the state and the rest of their benefit put on a card or paid into their bank. That would stop them getting into financial difficulties but still give them the freedom to spend their money where they want to after the obvious bills are paid.
Paying by card is not always possible and the more thrifty people would definitely lose out as buying from markets, charity shops, car boots and so on would not be possible you need cash for that.
I also dont think it is fair to make them stand out by having a benefit card. Why should the world and his wife know about their personal circumstances?
M Swanson
30-Jan-13, 18:39
I would suggest you reserve your ire for those milking the situation - the billionaire tax evaders, the banks, the speculators.
Here's a novel idea, Flynn! For once, why don't you try addressing the problem that's actually the topic of the thread? Tax evaders, banks and speculators are all worthy of debate in their own right and under their own thread header, surely. After all, not one of them justifies trying to shut down opinions of those who express anger, resentment, or any other strong feelings with regard to the abuse of benefits. You mention £1.5 Billion fraud, well who knows if that truly represents the situation, or whether it is actually a great deal more! I'd err on the side of the tip of the iceberg! Either way, this is a huge sum of money which is stolen by the fraudsters, when it should and could be used to increase the help available to genuine claimants. Unless you think that doesn't matter, on the grounds that there's worse being done elsewhere? Theft is theft and needs to be tackled, wherever it's happening. Bad attitude towards working, instead of sponging also needs to be addressed. What thoughts on the clip I gave earlier, Flynn?
I know a few people on benefits, that would not be able to handle the card things, esp if they receive enough benefits just to get their shopping and pay their bills, and for clothes etc need to get from a charity shop! Most places don't take cards unless u spend more than £5 etc, or even just simply don't take cards, and say for example u need some gravy for the dinner, gravy is no more than £2 which mean people would have to keep looking for a shop u can spend just a couple of pounds in, As for jobs etc it would make life easier if everyone had a chance in finding a job, I mean I know my husband applies for every chef, waitress and barring jobs that's going as this is what he is qualified to do, If he wanted to do something different he would have to go to collage, We ourselves get some benefits due to my husband only doing relief work just now, cause when he applies for a job he doesn't get it, I myself need an operation on a huge hernia, and was advised by medical staff not to work until I get my health conditions sorted, however, me and my husband would LOVE to come off benefits and have some working jobs, But everytime we apply for something up here we get no where, We are even at the stage of putting application forms in so that we can apply for a house in inverness, then fingers crossed get better work down there to do, But why should we have to move out of our home town just cause we can not get a job here,..........................................So Mr government tell us what does everyone need to do to get a job??? Move or leave our home town???? Without having the money from our benefits how do I provide for our kids?????? If I need a new bed, sofa, cooker etc how do I buy this without my actual benefits? Yes don't get me wrong fingers crossed we get a job soon and come off benefits, but until then we will remain on benefits, in order to provide for our family.....................
There's some proverbial comparisons of bluebottles to elephants just because they're both bigger than flies.:roll:
changilass
30-Jan-13, 19:27
But why should we have to move out of our home town just cause we can not get a job here,......................................
I really don't get this attitude.
Lots of people move for employment.
We would have loved to stay, hubby never thought he would leave the county, but needs must.
If I need a new bed, sofa, cooker etc how do I buy this without my actual benefits? ..........
If you are on Benefits you get the Job Centre to refer you to HomeAid. Go to the HomeAid office in the Industrial Estate in Thurso. You advise them that you are on Benefit and give them the written referal. You then Advise them what you need, be it a Sofa, Cooker, Fridge TV or even Plates etc. They should hten arrange for you to receive the items you require and they will also deliver it all to you. All Free of charge. OK the Sofa or Cooker will not be Brand New but it will be Clean, Tidy, neat and in dood working condition. If electrical it will also have been tested and passed by a qualified electrician. HomeAid was set up to help people on low incomes, on Benefit or Elderly.
M Swanson
30-Jan-13, 19:40
Nor me, Changi. My father couldn't find work in Scotland, so he set off for Southern England, 650 miles from his home. He didn't have the money for the train, so he walked and hitch-hiked all the way. When he arrived, he quickly found work and never had a day off in 35 years.
I was a baby boomer and couldn't find work, when I was 20 years old, so I moved to London where the work was. I didn't like leaving my close-knit family, but I needed to make a living for myself. I only knew two people in that huge metropolis, but I would have done anything, gone anywhere to provide for myself. Nothing special about that. It was the same story for thousands of us. I hated the thought, that someone would have to work hard to keep me. I don't know about benefits available in those days ......... I never applied for any.
If you are on Benefits you get the Job Centre to refer you to HomeAid. Go to the HomeAid office in the Industrial Estate in Thurso. You advise them that you are on Benefit and give them the written referal. You then Advise them what you need, be it a Sofa, Cooker, Fridge TV or even Plates etc. They should hten arrange for you to receive the items you require and they will also deliver it all to you. All Free of charge. OK the Sofa or Cooker will not be Brand New but it will be Clean, Tidy, neat and in dood working condition. If electrical it will also have been tested and passed by a qualified electrician. HomeAid was set up to help people on low incomes, on Benefit or Elderly.
HomeAid only has a finite supply of goods to give out since it is totally reliable on donations of goods by the public. There can be a waiting list for white goods ranging from a few months to over a year at times....
I personally feel that it is a sad state of affairs when, in our modern wealthy society, anybody has to rely on such charities.
The only people who should be needing stuff are people who for one reason or another have nothing & are starting from scratch & need a base to build up from....
For too long Government has been neglecting its duty to those in need by relying on charities to pick up the pieces, more so now then ever whilst at the same time cutting funding for charities.
i will be judgemental when i know it is "doleys" who have never paid into the system and i know them personally. Car, 42" TV, internet, sky sub, playstations etc, designer hoodies and they drink, smoke and do drugs so you tell me where the money comes from?? I dont judge everyone and i was a doley myself and quite possibly will be very soon so get off your high horse and stop hijacking the thread
There are so many issues about threads like this that make me utterly despair. Changilass and M Swanson both say they dont understand why people dont move for work. Other people say they dont understand the people like the couple who are reluctant to make the swap from benefit to work, still others dont understand why people shoudl have their benefit and spend it as they want to. Let me try to explain some of the issues which affect people on benefits so that you can try to understand.
Firstly lets talk about moving for work - and I did it - I moved for my work - 500 miles away from anyone I knew - no friends, no relatives no one. At the time I moved it was right for my husband and I. Up to a year previously we would not have moved - youngest of five my husbands parents were elderly, he was not willing to leave them and move anywhere where he was far away until they had left us. Why should being on Benefits mean that you have to uproot your children, leave elderly parents, give up your friends, isolate yourselves and take huge risks with your family, the children's schools and the life where you can just about manage?
I was 33 when I moved, confident, articulate and I also knew that I could do the job that I moved for. If you have been out of work for 12 months how confident, positive and optimistic do you think you would be? Do those of you that mutter about people not moving for work explain to me how people remain confident and motivated when often many people are at their lowest confidence and lowest self esteem because they have spent 3 months, 6 months or 12 months being told they are not good enough for every job they apply for?
We also had some money put away because we had always worked except for my husbands spells out of work of which the longest was 6 months. Not much but enough. Imagine you are on benefits - you want to move for work - where do you get the money for a deposit for rented property from? Where do you find the extra to pay even for a van and a man? How do you afford to go for interviews in another locality? The old travel to Interview Scheme which would pay for travel expenses and even overnight stays is no longer available and the DWP website states that "Help with travel costs incurred while attending job interviews may still be available for claimants. Their Jobcentre Plus adviser will be able to give more information. There is no automatic right for an individual to receive this additional financial support" If you are on benefits how do you afford any of that? There are no schemes, no programmes that pay for you to move - help with deposits and the like. You are on your own.
For those of you who wonder why people are reluctant to move into work from Benefits there are a million reasons but the main one is usually fear. Fear of the unknown, fear of failure, fear of not being able to manage the transition financially. You go from weekly or fortnightly benefits to monthly pay? Thats a hard thing to do. You run the risk of arrears on your rent, of having no money for leccy, for food. Do you ask your employer for an advance - some offer this - some dont. It can be paralysing. A quick mooch around the internet shows that the couple M Swanson found in the Daily Mail are likely to be about £30 per week better off in work on the minimum wage. I can show the workings out if any one wants to know. That is before bus fares, money for packed lunches, clothes or other costs. There is a small difference which may make it seem far too daunting to make the change. They need support and help to make the change. Remember if you do it and cant make it work there isnt a straightforward way back onto Benefits - leaving voluntarily and being sacked may very well lead to a sanction which would reduce the benefits - again there is the time it will take to sort benefits out if you have to reclaim and it may just feel like it might not be worth it. It may in fact be TERRIFYING.
In fact when you look at this article with this couple they have actually worked - the article says that the laddie says he is looking for work and is willing to work. The lassie has worked for Sainsburys and they both have paid tax. They also say that that they are not expecting to be on benefits forever so what on earth is the problem with this couple? They arent shirkers or skivers they are a young couple trying to manage on benefits til a job comes along that will make them better off. He doesnt want to work for minimum wage but will do if he has to.
All the stuff in the papers and the stuff this government does is designed to make people look at the unemployed like they are second class citizens - scroungers, shirkers, layabouts and on and on and on. This card payment thing is the same - lets identify the unemployed by making them use a card for their benefits. Why not just give them a yellow star to sew on their clothes?
People on Benefits could be you, me, your mum, your dad, your kids. The vast majority go back to work within three months, even more within 6 months. Those who dont, need help, support and targetted job finding support to help them move into work. Not standing up before the rest of society so we can throw stones at them until they beg us to stop. It is disgusting, immoral and appalling to target a group of people when they are at their lowest and make life worse for them without offering them the incentives or support they need to get out of the situation they find themselves in.
I really don't get this attitude.
Lots of people move for employment.
We would have loved to stay, hubby never thought he would leave the county, but needs must.................Yes I don't see a problem in moving this is why I stated we re putting in for a house in inverness but what about those 16 year olds, or even if its not appropriate from moving away from ur family say for personal reasons, or you just would much rather be near the family for support etc etc?
Interesting to see the councils using these cards are mostly Labour controlled.
MerlinScot
31-Jan-13, 12:56
I moved 11 times since I arrived in Scotland, for work. I left Edinburgh because I couldn't find a satisfying job and I ended up being on benefits, which I didn't like it. But at some point, I say this against my experience and interest, there should be a reform, especially in the way it is decided how and to whom these benefits are given. I don't know if you had the chance of reading the article of the Lithuanian mother who was spending 500 pounds a month in luxuries of various kind, designer's clothes and holidays abroad (I had bookmarked the link but it disappeared online hehe). People extra-Scotland shouldn't get benefits until they paid enough taxes to sustain their own benefits in case of uneployment.
the couple M Swanson found in the Daily Mail
That explains a lot. The Mail is the paper for people who prefer hate, bile, ignorance, and prejudice in preference to actual intelligent thought.
Here's a novel idea, Flynn! For once, why don't you try addressing the problem that's actually the topic of the thread? Tax evaders, banks and speculators are all worthy of debate in their own right and under their own thread header, surely. After all, not one of them justifies trying to shut down opinions of those who express anger, resentment, or any other strong feelings with regard to the abuse of benefits. You mention £1.5 Billion fraud, well who knows if that truly represents the situation, or whether it is actually a great deal more! I'd err on the side of the tip of the iceberg! Either way, this is a huge sum of money which is stolen by the fraudsters, when it should and could be used to increase the help available to genuine claimants. Unless you think that doesn't matter, on the grounds that there's worse being done elsewhere? Theft is theft and needs to be tackled, wherever it's happening. Bad attitude towards working, instead of sponging also needs to be addressed. What thoughts on the clip I gave earlier, Flynn?
My comment was entirely relevant to the discussion. If you cannot see how then I suggest you go read some actual NEWSpapers instead of that hate-filled rag the Daily Fail.
I read that article too MerlinScot. It is here http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4753651/lithuanian-immigrant-youre-a-soft-touch.html That woman in that article was WORKING she got no income support or jobseekers allowance She did get housing benefits and tax credits but she was working and she was therefore paying what she was required to pay in the form of NI and Tax. The article also made it clear that she was funding her lifestyle by paying for stuff on credit cards and paying the minimum every month.
The article says she 'rakes in £125 a week on the side' Well actually no.... she works and earns £125 a week. not rakes it in, not signs on for it but works. She gets in cash to herself to spend... £76 per week, tax credits and child benefit. She also has the £125 per week she EARNS. The rest is housing benefits not money to fritter away on designer clothes.
This whole article stinks of the amount they paid this woman to pander to their agenda of winding up the gullible public by including the word 'immigrant' and ' benefit' in the same sentence. Do people actually READ what these articles say or see the headline and get whipped up into a frenzy over the word benefit so it affects their actual understanding of the written word?
MerlinScot
31-Jan-13, 15:27
Squidge, I read that clearly and very well too.
She said she wouldn't work more than 16 hours a week not to lose the benefits. If you work less than 16 hrs a week you get JSA anyway. I used to work 12 hrs a week and never accepted even 17 because of that rule.
This woman was getting JSA, child benefits, tax credits and housing benefits. So she was actually mocking the system and the tax-payers saying "I'll never leave because UK government pay for my luxuries". Someone who gets 14.500 £ per annum in benefits and 'choose' not to work, well.. something is wrong there and a reform would be necessary.
Having said that... as I said, I've been one of them so I understood VERY well the article and what was wrong with it, as well as the fact that the title didn't affect my understanding of wrong or right.
You cannot earn 125 per week and get your JSA. Read it again MerlinScot it does not say she is getting JSA. Tax credits, child benefit, housing benefit and council tax benefit. No JSA and no income support. quick google shows you this woman is an actress, on the books of the agency that sold the story to the paper and she has been here for 8 years. Her online pics are snapped by a top press photographer and you cant find it on the mail website because they pulled the story cos it was a complete set up. Nice little publicity stunt All this story really tells us is that moving from under to over 16 hours work can make you worse off and we lnew that anyway.
There are people who work, people on benefits, and people just simply living from parents, There all still human beings!! There is some human beings that wants to work and just simply gets refused our applications ( like my husband and I) My husband is a relief worker, he had done 2 weeks just before Christmas and heard nothing since so we need our benefits to help. Since I was 14 though I had been working, in red cross doing volunteer work on a Saturday, I was still at school so during the day I was at school then at night I was working in forss house hotel, then I worked in semi-chem etc, my husband been working all his life too. But yet when we apply for a job we always get refused, so there for we need to have some benefits to keep us living, Hopefully fingers crossed will get a job soon though.... but why should we be any different to the people that works, There are disabled people too that cant work, do they really need to be labled too???
macadamia
31-Jan-13, 16:26
Agreed, Vimto. It does all of us little credit to make blanket judgement on the taking up and distribution of benefits. We all of us are only one step away from a life-changing circumstance: some for the better, some for the worse - and we call that "just life". But from time to time, the world can get on top of us - no, not "them" - US - and it is then when benefits become the bridge back to a better life. It is cruel and dismissive to attack benefit claimers as if they were somehow below us: they are human beings, and they have a right to be here. There are a few exceptions, but they are the ones picked up by the media. Be a little more thoughtful, and treat all people with respect until they have proved they don't deserve or require it. The gift of kindness is one which will always return, and be returned with interest.
MerlinScot
31-Jan-13, 16:59
Squidge, I earned 55 pounds a week in January 2011, working 12 hrs a week part time in a primary school...
Where did the 125 pounds come from? 16 hrs a week and you get 125 pounds is actually a lot.
Anyway, there is no point to re-read it if that was a set up, that story was just an example to make a point. Nobody is contesting benefits (although I originally come from a country where only a few can get them, as that lady / journalist was pointing out about Lithuania), I was speaking about the right of EU citizens in getting them even after 2 months of work here, therefore NOT enough paid taxes to actually benefit from them in a form of social support.
And squidge, I'm actually an immigrant too given that I never naturalised.
Regarding the 'Move to find work' opinions in this thread. Are you forgetting just how much money it costs to uproot and move you and your family to a new place? It can run into thousands of pounds when taking everything into account, so for most people, and not just those on benefits, it's just not an option. Many long-term unemployed don't have much in the way of skills or qualifications, so will most likely only get a minimum wage job on a part time contract, as full time contracts are few and far between these days.
The point is that both the articles mentioned dont actually portray what people have thought they portrayed. Both these couples are in the papers as scroungers, shirkers people who are screwing the ordinary tax payer. Neither of them are actually that. The original couple had worked, said they would work if they got a job which meant they were better off and the cast majority of the money they were getting went on housing benefit which they never even got their hands on. The second article was actually about a woman who has been here 8 years, has worked, is working and the vast majority of any benefit she is getting is on housing benefit which is spent on rent and which she never gets her hands on.
If you were working for 12 hours a week and getting £55 you should speak to someone because that is £4,58 per hour and is less than the legal minimum wage. That is against the law unless you are under 18. £125 is £8.30 oer hour, I dont know where she lives nor what the wage rates are an hour but its not extortionately out of all possibility.
The point is that people are being manipulated to see and think people on benefits are the worst sort of people and it isnt true. The powers that be have us all arguing amongst ourselves about who is the hardest up whilst the people who caused the problems in the first place walk away scot free and likely set up some sort of company which makes money out of (not) helping people into work. THAT is why Flynn's post is relevant. Open your eyes and if you cant do that without help then go and volunteer at a food bank or citizens advice or benefits advisory service or man a samaritans phone line. If you dont WANT to see then thats your failing. Anyone read ragged trousered philanthropists?
MerlinScot
31-Jan-13, 18:14
Regarding the 'Move to find work' opinions in this thread. Are you forgetting just how much money it costs to uproot and move you and your family to a new place?
Gizmo, sometimes it is necessary to move. Agree with you it is a sacrifice and it takes a lot of money to do it, but the hope for a better furture is more important. Yeah uprooting is awful, I uprooted myself out of a country and far from my family ages ago... but work is more important, as it was for me when I left.
Work move the world and it also splits the families, think how many fathers and mothers are far from their children, sometimes living in other countries. A friend of mine in Edinburgh kept sending money to her mum for her little sister's education for years.
Your reasoning is right about the cost, although I got to Scotland with 500 pounds in my bank account, so thousands of pounds is a bit excessive if you don't have children.
It is no true that many long-term unemployed have no skills, they're not unemployed because they're unskilled... it's because most of the time there's no work available for them anyway, regardless of the fact they're educated or skilled. I nearly had placed a 'tent' inside Careers Scotland in Edin, I can tell you that in some fields there's plenty of job offers, in others you can have as many qualifications you like but you won't find a job anyway.
MerlinScot
31-Jan-13, 18:21
Squidge, your tone is condescending and also... it feels like you're lecturing people here. I don't think anyone is a millionaire here.......
Personally, you're speaking to someone who went to get free meals at the Salvation Army, so I don't need you lecturing me about volunteering....
The rate was 5.98 £ per hour and it was the minimum wage. My tax code was BR1 so that's why it was merely 4.58 per hour. And yes, it was legal, unfortunately for me and the other about 400 employed by that agency.
If you want to work you need to accept whatever comes your way.
Gizmo, sometimes it is necessary to move. Agree with you it is a sacrifice and it takes a lot of money to do it, but the hope for a better furture is more important. Yeah uprooting is awful, I uprooted myself out of a country and far from my family ages ago... but work is more important, as it was for me when I left.
Work move the world and it also splits the families, think how many fathers and mothers are far from their children, sometimes living in other countries. A friend of mine in Edinburgh kept sending money to her mum for her little sister's education for years.
Your reasoning is right about the cost, although I got to Scotland with 500 pounds in my bank account, so thousands of pounds is a bit excessive if you don't have children.
It is no true that many long-term unemployed have no skills, they're not unemployed because they're unskilled... it's because most of the time there's no work available for them anyway, regardless of the fact they're educated or skilled. I nearly had placed a 'tent' inside Careers Scotland in Edin, I can tell you that in some fields there's plenty of job offers, in others you can have as many qualifications you like but you won't find a job anyway.
Those were your circumstances, but what makes you think that those same circumstances are applicable to many long term unemployed? I see that attitude on this board quite a lot, the 'Well I managed it, so why can't others?' attitude. The reality is that things like that, and especially in these current times for people with few qualifications or transferable skills, are financially impossible. I've known many fathers who work far away from home, but these people are in highly paid jobs where they can afford the added expense of secondary accomodation away from home. These are not the type of people who make up the majority of the long-term unemployed.
There was a great post on here a couple of years ago all about the realities and difficulties of uprooting and moving to another area, but I can't remember which thread it was in or who posted it. I do remember that it was by one of the regular members like Kodiak or Reghead? It hit the nail right on the head.
If you think for one minute that it's not extremely difficult, or damn near impossible, to uproot and move to a new area for a minimum wage job with no savings in the bank, then I would love to hear how to do it. I really would.
Squidge, your tone is condescending and also... it feels like you're lecturing people here. I don't think anyone is a millionaire here.......
Personally, you're speaking to someone who went to get free meals at the Salvation Army, so I don't need you lecturing me about volunteering....
The rate was 5.98 £ per hour and it was the minimum wage. My tax code was BR1 so that's why it was merely 4.58 per hour. And yes, it was legal, unfortunately for me and the other about 400 employed by that agency.
If you want to work you need to accept whatever comes your way.
I am sorry if you feel that I am condescending but this is IMPORTANT!!!! I hope I took that stupid article apart and the next time you read something you will actually THINK about it. The complete lack of empathy in this society we have today, the vilification of the poor and the smug self satisfaction of the rich disgusts me. Articles like this and people who beleive them and allow themselves to be manipulated just ensures the continuation of it all. Did you watch the panorama thing the other night and see the way they spoke about the people who needed their help. They took the absolute piss, didnt care and it appalled me. I cannot keep my mouth shut or my keyboard silent when this stuff is being said and I refuse to apologise for trying to make you see the TRUTH and see that the vast majority of people on benefits are there not out of choice but out of necessity. The way to get people off benefit is to help, support and ensure they can access vacancies not punish them or cut their benefits. Where people are committing fraud or are playing the system then you ensure that they are investigated and punished but you dont help people by making their lives harder.
As for your minimum wage and the BR1 tax code then I hope that you know you could get that tax back potentially and both applied and received the rebate that you should be due. That isnt trying to be condescending it is being informative and helpful and ensuring that you are getting everything that you are entitled to. Just like the comment about the minimum wage was. If someone is paying you a gross wage of £55 for 12 hours then that is illegal - thats a fact. If you are paying BR1 tax you may very well be entitled to a rebate - that is also fact.
I will NEVER shut up about this and I dont give a flying fig whether people think they are being lectured. I write about this blog about this and have worked with people on benefits in one guise or other for over 25 years. I damn well know what I am talking about. If by pointing out the flaws in both the stories offended you or anyone else then thats just tough. People need to open their eyes, people are dying whilst being found fit for work, people are being spat at in the street,having their windows put through, worrying that others are looking at them and thinking they cant have a fag or a pint of beer for fear of being called scroungers. Sick and Disabled people are being bullied and harrasses and people are being made to feel like nothing because of those articles and the people that read them and believe them hook line and sinker. Thats exactly the way to ensure that people are NOT confident enough to move areas for work, or confident enough to apply for jobs and present themselves well at an interview
That is not right - its not the sort of society I want to live in and surely to goodness its not the sort of society that you want to live in. I dont do this so that you will Like me - I dont rightly care - I dont know you. I dont judge you either - unlike those people judging others on benefits. I post this stuff because I cant sit and allow lies and misinterpretation or manipulation about a group of people who are often at the worst points in their lives to stand uncontested. If you dont like it then you can click on something and block me - I am sure that others can tell you how to do that.
The story about the 'benefit scrounging immigrant' is a pack of lies first published by the Daily Mail. The woman is an actress.
http://politicsuk.eu/archives/14347 (http://tompride.wordpress.com/2013/01/30/daily-mail-use-an-actress-for-another-story-to-demonise-the-working-class/)
M Swanson
31-Jan-13, 19:44
That explains a lot. The Mail is the paper for people who prefer hate, bile, ignorance, and prejudice in preference to actual intelligent thought.
Get a grip Flynn. I already explained that unlike some, I actually watched the programme with these two takers and based my opinion on what they actually said. The only reason, (not that I need one, of course), that I linked to The Mail was because they ran the story. Doh!
Still no comment from you on the £1.5 Billion stolen by fraudsters and what's to be done about it? Never mind, enough of us care about the situation to spend time studying the interests of those truly needy folk who lose out to the dross. Stand easy, Flynn. :D
Get a grip Flynn. I already explained that unlike some, I actually watched the programme with these two takers and based my opinion on what they actually said. The only reason, (not that I need one, of course), that I linked to The Mail was because they ran the story. Doh!
Still no comment from you on the £1.5 Billion stolen by fraudsters and what's to be done about it? Never mind, enough of us care about the situation to spend time studying the interests of those truly needy folk who lose out to the dross. Stand easy, Flynn. :D
Still no word from you about the £70billion stolen by fraudsters and what's to be done about it? Never mind, enough of us care about the situation to spend time studying the interests of those truly needy folk who lose out to the dross.
M Swanson
31-Jan-13, 20:03
LOL. Then start a thread about it, Flynn, instead of not addressing the benefit fraud. It doesn't get any easier. We're all eyes! :lol:
M Swanson
31-Jan-13, 20:21
It's as well that some people are taking the theft of benefits seriously. Last year saw a rise in the number of those caught and punished. Tough measures were long overdue, imo.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9613296/Benefit-fraud-convictions-rise-after-officials-get-new-powers.html
It's as well that some people are taking the theft of benefits seriously. Last year saw a rise in the number of those caught and punished. Tough measures were long overdue, imo.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9613296/Benefit-fraud-convictions-rise-after-officials-get-new-powers.html
Fair enuff.... So why tar all benefit claimant with the same brush?
On the subject of fraud why is it the benefit claimants that get all the hate directed at them & not the employers taking advantage of this group of desperate people struggling to survive on the pittance the benefits system gives them. Given the choice, most would far prefer to have a proper full time job rather than the cash in hand system that unscrupulous employers prefer in order to save a buck or two.....
If I had my way, anybody caught employing cash in hand unemployed workers would be forced to take them on on a full time basis for at least a year.
Ok lets see
You need a properly funded fraud investigation services. That means they are locally resourced and can respond quickly to reports that come in. You need a benefit service which knows the area and the people that it deals with - difficult in rural areas but necessary. The incentives to commit fraud need to be removed - why do we pay less for a couple than two single people - surely that just means that some people just lie about living together. Where people are starting work they need to be supported so the change is easier - if someone moves into work and is on monthly pay they may be tempted to lie about their start date rather than exist on fresh air. This doesnt need to be a payment - it could be a loan deducted from their wages within their tax code. Where people may be tempted to lie about doing a few days work because it is too hard to reclaim then sort a system out where benefits could be "put on hold" whilst someone sees whether a job is working out for them or not.
Make sure that Benefit fraud is as socially unacceptable as drink driving has become. Hammer employers and landlords who are on the fiddle.
Hammer doctors who complete fraudulent medical certificates.
Those are some of the suggestions I have. Make it more lucrative to be honest than dishonest and you will win everytime. Have a service which people trust to do the best for you and try to ensure you get what you are entitled to rather than try to stop you getting anything at all and you will win everytime. Its not rocket science.
secrets in symmetry
31-Jan-13, 23:26
That explains a lot. The Mail is the paper for people who prefer hate, bile, ignorance, and prejudice in preference to actual intelligent thought.Don't forget sleaziness, voyeurism, nonsense, lies, drivel, hypocrisy, xenophobia, racism, fascism and snobbery - although the later makes no sense whatsoever lol!
Ok lets see
You need a properly funded fraud investigation services. That means they are locally resourced and can respond quickly to reports that come in. You need a benefit service which knows the area and the people that it deals with - difficult in rural areas but necessary. The incentives to commit fraud need to be removed - why do we pay less for a couple than two single people - surely that just means that some people just lie about living together. Where people are starting work they need to be supported so the change is easier - if someone moves into work and is on monthly pay they may be tempted to lie about their start date rather than exist on fresh air. This doesnt need to be a payment - it could be a loan deducted from their wages within their tax code. Where people may be tempted to lie about doing a few days work because it is too hard to reclaim then sort a system out where benefits could be "put on hold" whilst someone sees whether a job is working out for them or not.
Make sure that Benefit fraud is as socially unacceptable as drink driving has become. Hammer employers and landlords who are on the fiddle.
Hammer doctors who complete fraudulent medical certificates.
Those are some of the suggestions I have. Make it more lucrative to be honest than dishonest and you will win everytime. Have a service which people trust to do the best for you and try to ensure you get what you are entitled to rather than try to stop you getting anything at all and you will win everytime. Its not rocket science.
Yep, exactly! They way NOT to do catching benefit fraudsters, of which there are certainly a fair few, is to assume every single person claiming benefit is guilty before being proven innocent, which a large proportion are x months after an appeal has been undertaken and after x months of stress..and on occasion even suicide. Those who are "professional" fraudsters know how to work the system, and rarely get caught.
To be fair, doctors are very susceptible to people who can turn on the tears......I can think of someone who got sent for two purely cosmetic elective procedures on the NHS because she howled in the surgery...and later came into me chuffed to bits about the fact that her tears had worked!
But I will say, as I always say, that the benefits system was a good idea adulterated and made completely impossible to sustain within a balanced economy by the vote-catching propensities of successive UK governments...and we need to be looking at the system as a whole..not just benefits, but the NHS and everything else, not simply concentrating on the fact that there are some (and relatively few people) who take advantage of the benefits system because it is so darned easy to do, given Government inability to see consequences past tomorrow!
We have become PC and focus/pressure group oriented to the extent that the only people who do not benefit from any Government policy are those who do not qualify in the employment stakes under the headings age, disability, gender reassignment, race, religion or belief, sex, sexual orientation, marriage and civil partnership and pregnancy and maternity...or those who, in the benefit stakes are single and under pension age without a benefit fundable addiction...and the single under 25 are even worse off than them! Fairness and equity? Yeah...right!
Out of interest, how many of you posting here, who whine about those you perceive as benefit fraudsters, or the media has told you are benefit fraudsters, and think you know people next door, down the road, in the next street you are convinced are taking the p1ss out of the system report them? And how many of those you have reported, if any, them have lost benefits as a result so you can preen that your perceptions were correct? And if you don't report....why don't you?
MerlinScot
01-Feb-13, 00:00
Make it more lucrative to be honest than dishonest and you will win everytime. Have a service which people trust to do the best for you and try to ensure you get what you are entitled to rather than try to stop you getting anything at all and you will win everytime. Its not rocket science.You start speaking some sense. Generalizing is bad on both sides and people who try to get around the system or even mock it should be stripped off of whatever benefit they receive.Although it is not rocket science, it is easily said than done though. Once you've given the approval to the claimant's application... How many resources would you need to find out they lied?
MerlinScot
01-Feb-13, 00:05
Out of interest, how many of you posting here, who whine about those you perceive as benefit fraudsters, or the media has told you are benefit fraudsters, and think you know people next door, down the road, in the next street you are convinced are taking the p1ss out of the system report them? And how many of those you have reported, if any, them have lost benefits as a result so you can preen that your perceptions were correct? And if you don't report....why don't you?Out of curiosity... How many people have you reported in your life? Because in all my life I reported only one person for a crime I had witnessed and my life became hell for one year thanks to police officers. I was on the brink of suicide at the end. So I met at least three people in Edinburgh who admitted cheating on their JSA and housing benefits applications but hell no... They will be reported by someone else, not surely me.
Some of it costs nothing - a change in attitude and focus would start to create a service which helps and supports people to ensure that they are getting what they are entitled to and that the service focuses on getting people into work rather than getting them off benefits.
As for the cost? Well lets see this government are paying hand over fist for private companies to fail to move people into work this has been estimated to be in excess of 5 billion. Then there is £112 million being handed over to ATOS to assess those who are sick and disabled and a further £48 million for the cost of all the appeals. The last figures I saw suggested that ATOS alone hold government contracts worth £3 billion.
The operating costs for Jobcentreplus were £3.5 billion in the year 2010/2011. It has been suggested that these private companies are pulled in because the Government Agencies are failing. Surely you have to ask the question whether they are failing because the resources are diverted to private companies andcutting the statutory agencies to the bone. Interestingly the operating costs for this agency in 2011 are almost the same as they were in 2007. How can this government say they are saving money if all they do is take from the statutory agencies and put it in the pockets of shareholders and private individuals? These private companies only have a responsibility to their shareholders - not to the taxpayers who are funding their businesses and definitely not to the individuals existing on £71 per week. They make their money from the misery of others - it needs to stop.
Some of it costs nothing - a change in attitude and focus would start to create a service which helps and supports people to ensure that they are getting what they are entitled to and that the service focuses on getting people into work rather than getting them off benefits.
As for the cost? Well lets see this government are paying hand over fist for private companies to fail to move people into work this has been estimated to be in excess of 5 billion. Then there is £112 million being handed over to ATOS to assess those who are sick and disabled and a further £48 million for the cost of all the appeals. The last figures I saw suggested that ATOS alone hold government contracts worth £3 billion.
The operating costs for Jobcentreplus were £3.5 billion in the year 2010/2011. It has been suggested that these private companies are pulled in because the Government Agencies are failing. Surely you have to ask the question whether they are failing because the resources are diverted to private companies andcutting the statutory agencies to the bone. Interestingly the operating costs for this agency in 2011 are almost the same as they were in 2007. How can this government say they are saving money if all they do is take from the statutory agencies and put it in the pockets of shareholders and private individuals? These private companies only have a responsibility to their shareholders - not to the taxpayers who are funding their businesses and definitely not to the individuals existing on £71 per week. They make their money from the misery of others - it needs to stop.
.....http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/022/4/c/__new___clap_icon_by_xxember4yaxx-d5sc5ak.gif.....
Now here is a Point and a very Valid one. There have quite a few people here on the Org complaining about the number of people that are on Benefits. Soooooo
Now here is my Point........Everyone, and I mean Everyone living here in Scotland receives some form of Benefit. Don't say you don't cos you do.
Each and every time you go to a Doctor and he gives you a Prescription, you take it to the Chemist and get it filled. You sign for the Prescription but you don't pay for it, that then is a Benefit. If you lived in England you would have to pay for it.
How many of you receive Family Allowance, Tax Credits as these are also Benefits.
So as the old saying goes.........People living in Glass Houses should not throw stones.
M Swanson
01-Feb-13, 07:46
Agreed, Vimto. It does all of us little credit to make blanket judgement on the taking up and distribution of benefits.
Then it's just as well that nobody, not even those who have dared to criticise fraud by "some" claimants, has ever done this, on this thread, Mac. Phew!
Fair enuff.... So why tar all benefit claimant with the same brush?
And who has done this, Alrock? Nobody that I'm aware of. Name and shame, I say! :roll:
Generalizing is bad on both sides
Nobody who has expressed concerns about the £1.5 Billion fraud has generalised, Merlin. It's a trap set by those who believe they either know it all, or have a political grudge to exercise. Intimidation, by anonymous keyboard warriors, in other words and sadly it very often works. Not with me, of course and not, I believe, with you! :cool:
M Swanson
01-Feb-13, 08:01
That explains a lot. The Mail is the paper for people who prefer hate, bile, ignorance, and prejudice in preference to actual intelligent thought.
Don't forget sleaziness, voyeurism, nonsense, lies, drivel, hypocrisy, xenophobia, racism, fascism and snobbery - although the later makes no sense whatsoever lol!
Whilst on the subject of "blanket judgements," how about these two posts, which neatly wraps up a Mail readership of 4,248,000 and a 1,660,000 circulation - Monday - Friday. Hypocrisy and double standards, ay what? :lol:
M Swanson
01-Feb-13, 08:04
And in conclusion! If anyone would like to check if they're receiving all their entitlements, then I can recommend this official calculator. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. :cool:
Sorry folks, I still can't get this link to work. I'll try again later. Doh!
Whilst on the subject of "blanket judgements," how about these two posts, which neatly wraps up a Mail readership of 4,248,000 and a 1,660,000 circulation - Monday - Friday. Hypocrisy and double standards, ay what? :lol:
Then that's 1,660,000 prejudiced, bigoted, small-minded, racist, misogynist, readers out of a population of close to 70,000,000.
M Swanson
01-Feb-13, 12:40
No skin off my nose, Flynn. :lol: Mind you, it's always helpful to keep things real.
Circulation figures for January, 2012.
Mail - 1,893,958
Guardian - 231,874
Morning Star - 14,000
You pays ya money and ya makes ya choice. Me? I don't buy any of them. If it ain't the Org, I'm not reading it! :cool:
It's quite funny to see the exact thing that the rich want in one thread, ie the less well off fighting amongst each other lol.
There is only one thing people should be looking into above all else. Until you change the way money works, you change nothing. Seriously, how many people actually know how money works, where it comes from, the difference between money and currency?
No skin off my nose, Flynn. :lol: Mind you, it's always helpful to keep things real.
Circulation figures for January, 2012.
Mail - 1,893,958
Guardian - 231,874
Morning Star - 14,000
You pays ya money and ya makes ya choice. Me? I don't buy any of them. If it ain't the Org, I'm not reading it! :cool:
That much is abundantly clear.
Sometimes....infact recently a lot of times,I am ashamed to say I am from Caithness,everyone is so quick to judge!Yes there are people who know how to abuse the system,but as I have said repeatedly they will always find ways round it no matter what,while everyone goes around slagging off people who genuinely need the benefit! I have seen both sides of the coin,more times that I would have liked to! I have never,ever slagged anyone off for being on benefits,but yet almost every time I go to sign on I am faced with the ones who milk the system and get everything handed to them,while I myself am made to feel rubbish for not finding a job! I am not lazy,I volunteer and I apply for every job I am suitable for,but yet I feel like the lowest of the low because I am not working! I finally got a job in February last year and was delighted with myself,then I had an accident at work and they terminated my employment for being off sick,so I am back to square one again :( trust me people who genuinely need the help feel bad enough without people making us feel worse!Nobody knows when they may fall on hardtimes,I didnt expect to thats for sure!x
The human cost of the benefit cuts:
http://www.scotsman.com/news/scottish-news/top-stories/glasgow-remploy-worker-found-dead-after-losing-job-1-2770242
and also
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21276097
(http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21276097)
secrets in symmetry
02-Feb-13, 01:48
Now here is a Point and a very Valid one. There have quite a few people here on the Org complaining about the number of people that are on Benefits. Soooooo
Now here is my Point........Everyone, and I mean Everyone living here in Scotland receives some form of Benefit. Don't say you don't cos you do.
Each and every time you go to a Doctor and he gives you a Prescription, you take it to the Chemist and get it filled. You sign for the Prescription but you don't pay for it, that then is a Benefit. If you lived in England you would have to pay for it.
How many of you receive Family Allowance, Tax Credits as these are also Benefits.
So as the old saying goes.........People living in Glass Houses should not throw stones.OMG, I should be so grateful!
Perhaps not.... The last time I took a prescription to the chemist it would have cost me something in the region of six quid if I'd "cashed it". In this case, it turned out cheaper to buy the pills off the shelf. Some benefit!
secrets in symmetry
02-Feb-13, 01:54
Then that's 1,660,000 prejudiced, bigoted, small-minded, racist, misogynist, readers out of a population of close to 70,000,000.Indeed.
The irony is that the Mail is full of articles that ooze sleaze, innuendo and voyeurism - all illustrated by dirty clandestine pictures of "celebrities" in various states of undress.
But it's the truth! Seeing a story in the Daily Wail is a better reference than some random website. Unless you've seen it on the Daily Wail .com website which is just the absolute truth bar none.
OMG, I should be so grateful!
Perhaps not.... The last time I took a prescription to the chemist it would have cost me something in the region of six quid if I'd "cashed it". In this case, it turned out cheaper to buy the pills off the shelf. Some benefit!
In England the current cost for a prescription is £7.40. Per item.
In Scotland prescriptions are free Secrets, you mustnt have been ill for a whiley
Indeed.
The irony is that the mail is full of articles that ooze sleaze, innuendo and voyeurism - all illustrated by dirty clandestine pictures of "celebrities" in various states of undress.
Indeed. Here is a visual guide (http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q672/Forumstufftoo/Forum bits/mailonlineguide_zpsae319404.jpg) to the Mail Online website.
secrets in symmetry
02-Feb-13, 13:23
Lol!
Do you have one for the Sun?
OMG, I should be so grateful!
Perhaps not.... The last time I took a prescription to the chemist it would have cost me something in the region of six quid if I'd "cashed it". In this case, it turned out cheaper to buy the pills off the shelf. Some benefit!
You will notice I said......Everyone Living in Scotland as Prescriptions in Scotland are Free for everyone. Now in England you have to pay, I am not sure how as I do not live there but I think it is around £7
secrets in symmetry
02-Feb-13, 13:27
But it's the truth! Seeing a story in the Daily Wail is a better reference than some random website. Unless you've seen it on the Daily Wail .com website which is just the absolute truth bar none.That's the rule for most things, but not for climate change. In the latter case, the story must be by a lunatic columnist from the Telegraph, or by some loony with a degree from the University of Deserted Gas Station, Sagebrush, Kansas, on a pseudo-science website funded by an oil company.
More human costs of the cuts: http://www.itv.com/news/2013-02-01/tenants-hit-by-bedroom-tax-tell-of-financial-misery/
secrets in symmetry
02-Feb-13, 14:14
You will notice I said......Everyone Living in Scotland as Prescriptions in Scotland are Free for everyone. Now in England you have to pay, I am not sure how as I do not live there but I think it is around £7Yes, I know - you're right.
My mind wandered.... I haven't had a prescription since the charges were abolished, but I vaguely remember paying about £5 not long before they were abolished completely - so I saved maybe a couple of quid. :cool:
Back on topic, I don't think I receive any benefits - apart from Kodiak's free prescriptions, which I mercifully haven't needed for some years. I'm not sure they should be counted as benefits in Scotland or charges in England, but I'm not going to continue arguing over semantic issues.
M Swanson
02-Feb-13, 14:28
More human costs of the cuts: http://www.itv.com/news/2013-02-01/tenants-hit-by-bedroom-tax-tell-of-financial-misery/
As is so often favoured by you and your ilk, this is only half of the story. The government has already stated that aid is available for foster carers and disabled people. Payments will be granted at the discretion of local authorities. In other words, those that are truly in need of help will get it. Quite right too. Forget the ideology, Flynn, we're discussing human beings here. :roll:
On the other hand, how do you and your ilk feel about elderly people who are in large, council properties, (anything up to four bedrooms), being required to downsize, to free up valuable housing stock?
M Swanson
02-Feb-13, 14:39
You will notice I said......Everyone Living in Scotland as Prescriptions in Scotland are Free for everyone. Now in England you have to pay, I am not sure how as I do not live there but I think it is around £7
Do pensioners in Scotland, (even those on a basic pension, like me), have to pay for dental treatment and glasses, do you know Kodiak? :confused
As is so often favoured by you and your ilk, this is only half of the story. The government has already stated that aid is available for foster carers and disabled people. Payments will be granted at the discretion of local authorities. In other words, those that are truly in need of help will get it. Quite right too. Forget the ideology, Flynn, we're discussing human beings here. :roll:
On the other hand, how do you and your ilk feel about elderly people who are in large, council properties, (anything up to four bedrooms), being required to downsize, to free up valuable housing stock?
How do YOU feel about those elderly people being forcibly moved away from friends and family into small flats, quite likely in run-down bedsitland areas? Typical response from your kind: unthinking, uncaring and inhuman.
Do pensioners in Scotland, (even those on a basic pension, like me), have to pay for dental treatment and glasses, do you know Kodiak? :confused
Yes M Swanson they do
rich62_uk
02-Feb-13, 18:16
I thought that pensioners would not be liable for the bedroom tax. So will not be forced to move out of their homes unless they want to in which case I believe (could be wrong) they would be given a 'reward' for each extra room they have ?
Do pensioners in Scotland, (even those on a basic pension, like me), have to pay for dental treatment and glasses, do you know Kodiak? :confused
As far as I know Pensioner's in Scotland get free Dental Treatment. The last three times I have been to the Dentist, (for an extraction, fillings and general scrape & clean), I was never charged anything and was told the was nothing to pay as I was an OAP and the NHS Picked up the full bill.
Going back to the thing that I had originally posted! BENEFITS! Everyone gets benefits at some point, either this is a free prescription, School meals for their children, School uniforms, Going in to hospital for any reason, Going to see a doctor, Having a baby and seeing midwives, Your scans, The drugs u get when u are in labour, some help on rent and council tax, Milk tokens, anything else I might have missed out, I know even if u are working and receiving a low income you still can get free school meals, and help to get your kids uniforms for school etc, So at some point everyone gets a bit of benefits, So should they be in the wrong and get treated like us that actually get benefits, I mean I don't want to say anything about my health but I will, The doctors had signed me off work for life cause I got a huge hernia I need operated on, I have possible hole in heart and valve, I have really bad asthma that has made me fight for my life more than once. Half my lungs collapsed at one point when I was 13 or 14, I have anxiety and panic attacks, But despite all this and going against doctors rules I would much rather be in a working job rather than on benefits, Yes I can have a sitting job, but when really is a sitting job? I would rather be active and know I have earned my wage other than sitting on my arse still and getting paid. My husband is in relief job and although benefits know this we still get our benefits, but we have to tell him the times he had worked and how much he erned and that is then deducted from our money, We would both rather full time work, and even if we had this, I know I can get help from benefits for childcare for my 2 year old, so again this is BENEFITS! so we don't actually come off completely of benefits as we would get funding for our carer. So why is it any different for people that is on benefits than those that are in work?????????? like I have previously said, we are ALL human beings and NO1 is Miss/Mr perfect!!!!
Do pensioners in Scotland, (even those on a basic pension, like me), have to pay for dental treatment and glasses, do you know Kodiak? :confused
AFAIK we all get in the UK, free eye tests and prescriptions. Form HC1 can be completed if you have savings less than £16000 on the off-chance you can get help with help with stuff like NHS dental treatment (if you can find an NHS dentist!); NHS wigs and fabric supports; sight tests‚ glasses and contact lenses; and travel to hospital for NHS treatment where appropriate. Same as in England. What would make you think it was any different?
MerlinScot
02-Feb-13, 18:52
Vimto, I think you're taking what you posted on a personal level.
What you're saying makes no sense. If you didn't have those benefits... you would probably live in an African country or China because in Europe many of those benefits are considered "rights".
So please make a difference from benefits, meaning money you receive from the government directly, and rights we won after years of battles everywhere.
For instance, I have had something like 6 hernias and a dislodgement of the back spine and I can tell you that no doctor in Scotland ever said I could be off work (while basically I would be unable to work, even sitting...) or even prescribed me more medication to stand the pain. They ignored me (whether this is common or just because I'm not local I don't know).
So I've to tell you that NHS Scotland (never lived everywhere else in UK so I've no idea) is a lot worse than the assistance I could get in my native country, in the same conditions.
I've been attempting to get an MRI for the record time of two years something and no doctor ever prescribed me one, they told me I should pay for it.
Not all gold glitters Vimto. I don't understand your anger either because I never made a difference between someone working and someone on benefits, between someone who can work or can't. I make a difference between someone who works and someone who doesn't work but can though. And to be honest I met a few, but saying that people who take advantage of the system don't exist is a lie.
Concerning dental care, I still have to be accepted in any list so I've been seeing my teeth rotting away because I can't afford to pay to fix them or even cleaning them at the dental practice.
Concerning dental care, I still have to be accepted in any list so I've been seeing my teeth rotting away because I can't afford to pay to fix them or even cleaning them at the dental practice.
Try changing your diet... I've not seen a dentist for at least 15 years (maybe more) & still have all my teeth & they are reasonably healthy.
M Swanson
02-Feb-13, 20:00
AFAIK we all get in the UK, free eye tests and prescriptions. Form HC1 can be completed if you have savings less than £16000 on the off-chance you can get help with help with stuff like NHS dental treatment (if you can find an NHS dentist!); NHS wigs and fabric supports; sight tests‚ glasses and contact lenses; and travel to hospital for NHS treatment where appropriate. Same as in England. What would make you think it was any different?
I didn't think it was "any different," or not, which is why I asked the question. I didn't know. Not that it's, as usual, any of your business. FYI I do not qualify for free glasses, or any help at all with them, nor do I receive free dental treatment. I am on basic rate pension and not in receipt of any benefits. I have always had free eye tests, because close family members have suffered from glaucoma. It's not unheard of that when a dentist advertises an NHS service, for folks to queue around the block to register.
M Swanson
02-Feb-13, 20:06
How do YOU feel about those elderly people being forcibly moved away from friends and family into small flats, quite likely in run-down bedsitland areas? Typical response from your kind: unthinking, uncaring and inhuman.
LOL. More of the same nonsense from you Flynn, whilst not answering my question. Firstly you ask me what I feel about elderly people being forced to move and then you answer it yourself, with childish name-calling. A typical response from you, then! [lol]
As far as I know Pensioner's in Scotland get free Dental Treatment. The last three times I have been to the Dentist, (for an extraction, fillings and general scrape & clean), I was never charged anything and was told the was nothing to pay as I was an OAP and the NHS Picked up the full bill.
Thanks Kodiak. The last time I went to a dentist in UK, it was at the local hospital and I was charged £1300! Almost wiped me out, I can tell you, but I don't begrudge anyone who has better luck than I did. :cool:
secrets in symmetry
02-Feb-13, 20:12
What is it with some people on this forum? As I've said twice now, I don't receive any benefits! I don't receive JSA, housing benefit, tax credits, child tax credits, child benefit, or any other regular benefit I can think of. (I'll back down if anyone can think of a (regular) benefit that I do receive!)
Are some of you so fixed on benefits that you can't imagine someone not getting them?
I work, I pay taxes, I pay National Insurance, and I pay into a pension scheme, but I don't (currently) receive any benefits. Is that so hard to understand?
Getting back to (something close to) semantics....
I wouldn't include health care in a definition of benefits because I pay for health care via income tax and national insurance.
I'm going to go out and buy the Daily Wail on Monday if I get driven any further up the wall by claimants of benefits lol!
AFAIK we all get in the UK, free eye tests and prescriptions. Form HC1 can be completed if you have savings less than £16000 on the off-chance you can get help with help with stuff like NHS dental treatment (if you can find an NHS dentist!); NHS wigs and fabric supports; sight tests‚ glasses and contact lenses; and travel to hospital for NHS treatment where appropriate. Same as in England. What would make you think it was any different?
No. In England - if you are working - prescriptions cost £7.40 per item, you pay for eye tests and glasses, and you pay for dentistry.
Going back to the thing that I had originally posted! BENEFITS! Everyone gets benefits at some point, either this is a free prescription, School meals for their children, School uniforms, Going in to hospital for any reason, Going to see a doctor, Having a baby and seeing midwives, Your scans, The drugs u get when u are in labour, some help on rent and council tax, Milk tokens, anything else I might have missed out, I know even if u are working and receiving a low income you still can get free school meals, and help to get your kids uniforms for school etc, So at some point everyone gets a bit of benefits, So should they be in the wrong and get treated like us that actually get benefits, I mean I don't want to say anything about my health but I will, The doctors had signed me off work for life cause I got a huge hernia I need operated on, I have possible hole in heart and valve, I have really bad asthma that has made me fight for my life more than once. Half my lungs collapsed at one point when I was 13 or 14, I have anxiety and panic attacks, But despite all this and going against doctors rules I would much rather be in a working job rather than on benefits, Yes I can have a sitting job, but when really is a sitting job? I would rather be active and know I have earned my wage other than sitting on my arse still and getting paid. My husband is in relief job and although benefits know this we still get our benefits, but we have to tell him the times he had worked and how much he erned and that is then deducted from our money, We would both rather full time work, and even if we had this, I know I can get help from benefits for childcare for my 2 year old, so again this is BENEFITS! so we don't actually come off completely of benefits as we would get funding for our carer. So why is it any different for people that is on benefits than those that are in work?????????? like I have previously said, we are ALL human beings and NO1 is Miss/Mr perfect!!!!
Yep....agree totally with your POV! What people don't appear to grasp is that the problem is the whole system which has become predicated on the sense of entitlement which has grown up around it over the decades, and where we are now has to absorb the growing irritation of those who are just over the dividing line of those who benefit and those who don't and are doing foot-stamping because they don't see why some people get stuff when they don't! Not every individual is receiving something from benefits just because they can, whatever the media would have us believe, though there are certainly an element....but is that the fault of the individuals or the system which makes it so easy? Few people in the UK don't claim any benefit that is going that they can claim whether they need them or not. It is the UK entitlement mindset. But it is the media, to sell papers, which pander to the irrational....and suceed in formenting animosity...which is so obviously seen on threads like this on forums...so the media is supporting now, and always has, imo, the UK Government mindset.
Benefits are little more than bribery to buy votes, imo. Nulabour throws money at people some focus group decides are poor, in the hopes that it will buy them the votes of those who benefit, and Tories remove money from areas they believe won't benefit them, and dish out OUR money to the areas they think will buy them votes. How terminally thick are the UK electorate that they think that our politicians do not produce manifestos which will pander to their biases to try to ensure election?
And you know the bribery which hacks me off most.....more than any chancer, arriving here from anywhere on earth, manipulating the system to get any and everything going...the fact that the UK taxpayer is paying companies to keep their profits up to acceptable levels by encouraging them to pay crap wages. Jesus wept, even lower level public servants claim working tax credits....which are just the taxpayers donation into allowing the Government to reduce what they actually pay directly to maintain the civil service to make them appear competent...which they are definitely not.
Starbucks have been in the news a lot lately, because they have managed to not pay any UK tax in years....but, given their wage rates...how much have they cost the UK taxpayer in working tax credits just so they can shift the profits we kindly increase, from our input, to another country with a more beneficial tax system and save them paying their dues to the UK, which has funded to an extent, their profits?
I have never quite understood why we assume that any private company we employ has at the top of their mission statement any obligation other than making profits for the shareholders. Haven't so far found any which proclaim fairness, equity and not taking the p1ss as a headline policy..or even as a little remark much further down the mission statement to make us think they do.
No. In England - if you are working - prescriptions cost £7.40 per item, you pay for eye tests and glasses, and you pay for dentistry.
The post to which I responded specifically mentioned pensioners.
M Swanson
02-Feb-13, 22:42
LOL. Indeed it did OQ.
I didn't think it was "any different," or not, which is why I asked the question. I didn't know. Not that it's, as usual, any of your business. FYI I do not qualify for free glasses, or any help at all with them, nor do I receive free dental treatment. I am on basic rate pension and not in receipt of any benefits. I have always had free eye tests, because close family members have suffered from glaucoma. It's not unheard of that when a dentist advertises an NHS service, for folks to queue around the block to register.
Why didn't you know? Scotland can't change the law...Scotland can just, within the limits of their pocket money, do what limited amount they can to ameliorate the impact of UK policy on the Scottish population. Pensioners in Scotland, of which I am one, as in the UK, are already much more than adequately feather bedded, imo, so are not deserving of any extra schmoozing just because we are old(ish). We are as much citizens as any other citizen...and no more important than anybody else.
Do you really think, honestly, that if Scotland was offering free dental treatment etc outside the UK laid down rules, that we'd not be seeing something about it on every darn UK biased media report in addition to their whining about the free prescriptions England pays for? :roll:
Thanks Kodiak. The last time I went to a dentist in UK, it was at the local hospital and I was charged £1300! Almost wiped me out, I can tell you, but I don't begrudge anyone who has better luck than I did. :cool:
Thought I'd responded to Kodiak, but obviously not! Dental treatment is not free in Scotland unless you can get registered at an NHS or Community Dental Service.....or are in receipt of pension credit or some other eligible benefit. http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2011/03/30092604/3
Much as it is in England, I think?
AFAIK we all get in the UK, free eye tests and prescriptions. Form HC1 can be completed if you have savings less than £16000 on the off-chance you can get help with help with stuff like NHS dental treatment (if you can find an NHS dentist!); NHS wigs and fabric supports; sight tests‚ glasses and contact lenses; and travel to hospital for NHS treatment where appropriate. Same as in England. What would make you think it was any different?
Get ready to kiss all those pensioner benefits goodbye. Free TV licences, bus passes, winter fuel payment, free dentistry, free eye checks, all under threat in 2015:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/pensioners-fuel-allowance-free-tv-licence-and-bus-passes-at-risk-as-downing-street-admits-pledge-to-protect-them-only-applies-until-2015-8477428.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/pensioners-fuel-allowance-free-tv-licence-and-bus-passes-at-risk-as-downing-street-admits-pledge-to-protect-them-only-applies-until-2015-8477428.html)
M Swanson
03-Feb-13, 14:17
You make it sound like this will affect everyone, no matter how high, or low their income is. That's not what Dep PM Cleggie says:-
'The payments were protected for the period of this Parliament in the 2010 Coalition Agreement, but Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg has suggested that wealthier pensioners could be asked to "sacrifice" some of their benefits to save money.'
I would have thought that you and your ilk would welcome this, Flynn. Do you not?
Personally, as I'm not in receipt of any benefits it won't affect me, but it does show how one can live on a basic rate pension without griping, doesn't it? Proof positive, I'd say! :cool:
M Swanson
03-Feb-13, 14:30
Until it's proved otherwise, then it will stand, for now. If that changes, then trust me, I'll be on to it! You can rely on me Flynn. Just because it blasts a hole in your propaganda doesn't make it untrue. Nice try, though. :D
Until it's proved otherwise, then it will stand, for now. If that changes, then trust me, I'll be on to it! You can rely on me Flynn. Just because it blasts a hole in your propaganda doesn't make it untrue. Nice try, though. :D
Any comment or 'promise' from Nick Clegg couldn't blow a hole in a beer head. The man is a proven liar multiple times.
MerlinScot
03-Feb-13, 15:25
Any comment or 'promise' from Nick Clegg couldn't blow a hole in a beer head. The man is a proven liar multiple times.
As all the politicians, I guess. I still have to see one who is honestly concerned about NOT saying lies. In every country, on planet Earth.
I think 'being good at making BS appear as truth' must be a requirement to be in Politics.
I think 'being good at making BS appear as truth' must be a requirement to be in Politics.
Clegg can't even do that: http://youtu.be/HWT-o-H4srg
Here's what most who don't read the Daily Fail already knew, benefit fraud is minuscule in comparison to tax fraud: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/feb/01/welfare-fraud-tax-avoidance.
Do you know that Jobcentreplus staff have been told they must support the failing private companies who are delivering the work programme. By training, coaching and offering them every possible support. Sort of gives the lie to the suggestion that Private companies are chosen because the public sector is failing.
riggerboy
03-Feb-13, 18:58
People om long term benefits that are capable of working should be given food parcels, no money should be handed out, nobody that doesn't work and put money into the system should have the luxury of a working family, there should be no exceptions to this, after 12 months of claiming JSA you should be stripped of all benefits and made to go collect your family food parcel for the week, wonder how long it would take before they realise the gravy train has stopped and go out and find work, it's all to easy for them to sit back and take, there's work out there for folk willing to take it on, I've heard it too often, the phase that sums up the scrounges, " it's not worth me taking a job, I'd be worse off" that's what's wrong with you the people, it's not the system its the lazy folk that have no self respect, get off yer arses and find a purpose to life, your not owed anything you should be made to work for it,
Should they live in cardboard boxes too?
People om long term benefits that are capable of working should be given food parcels, no money should be handed out, nobody that doesn't work and put money into the system should have the luxury of a working family, there should be no exceptions to this, after 12 months of claiming JSA you should be stripped of all benefits and made to go collect your family food parcel for the week, wonder how long it would take before they realise the gravy train has stopped and go out and find work, it's all to easy for them to sit back and take, there's work out there for folk willing to take it on, I've heard it too often, the phase that sums up the scrounges, " it's not worth me taking a job, I'd be worse off" that's what's wrong with you the people, it's not the system its the lazy folk that have no self respect, get off yer arses and find a purpose to life, your not owed anything you should be made to work for it,
Lets see you spout that nonsense when it happens to you.
People om long term benefits that are capable of working should be given food parcels, no money should be handed out, nobody that doesn't work and put money into the system should have the luxury of a working family, there should be no exceptions to this, after 12 months of claiming JSA you should be stripped of all benefits and made to go collect your family food parcel for the week, wonder how long it would take before they realise the gravy train has stopped and go out and find work, it's all to easy for them to sit back and take, there's work out there for folk willing to take it on, I've heard it too often, the phase that sums up the scrounges, " it's not worth me taking a job, I'd be worse off" that's what's wrong with you the people, it's not the system its the lazy folk that have no self respect, get off yer arses and find a purpose to life, your not owed anything you should be made to work for it,
http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs40/f/2009/053/2/1/Nostalgic_Critic_Falm_Palm_by_Babclayman.jpg
RB, your delivery is, as ever, excellent! ;)
Here's what most who don't read the Daily Fail already knew, benefit fraud is minuscule in comparison to tax fraud: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/feb/01/welfare-fraud-tax-avoidance.The problem with these supposed frauds is they are highly subjective. The £1.5bn is based on what they know, what about the fraud they don't know?
Conversely this £30bn figure from HMRC is based on 'what they think', sadly what they think & what they understand are two different things. This £30bn may include a £7bn error due to implementing a policy against industry advice.
Social anxiety and in general being afraid has costs me some years of unemployment. Only recently did I approach the GP about depression in January.
I'm not on benefits, instead my dad is supporting me. The guilt I feel is enormous. I could easily go into town and start signing on but at the same time I already feel hopeless and guilty.
This week I'm thinking about calling the riverside practice and asking for a sick line. Obviously I'll begin paying my dad back with whatever income I get.
People om long term benefits that are capable of working should be given food parcels, no money should be handed out, nobody that doesn't work and put money into the system should have the luxury of a working family, there should be no exceptions to this, after 12 months of claiming JSA you should be stripped of all benefits and made to go collect your family food parcel for the week, wonder how long it would take before they realise the gravy train has stopped and go out and find work, it's all to easy for them to sit back and take, there's work out there for folk willing to take it on, I've heard it too often, the phase that sums up the scrounges, " it's not worth me taking a job, I'd be worse off" that's what's wrong with you the people, it's not the system its the lazy folk that have no self respect, get off yer arses and find a purpose to life, your not owed anything you should be made to work for it,
Aye and would YOU be happy if you lost your job and after 12 months of fruitless interviews and job searching YOU were told you were getting a food parcel until you shift your lazy ass into gear??? hmm....
http://www.smaggle.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/the-dumb-ass-test-big1.jpg
Get ready to kiss all those pensioner benefits goodbye. Free TV licences, bus passes, winter fuel payment, free dentistry, free eye checks, all under threat in 2015:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/pensioners-fuel-allowance-free-tv-licence-and-bus-passes-at-risk-as-downing-street-admits-pledge-to-protect-them-only-applies-until-2015-8477428.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/pensioners-fuel-allowance-free-tv-licence-and-bus-passes-at-risk-as-downing-street-admits-pledge-to-protect-them-only-applies-until-2015-8477428.html)
I'll be voting for Independence in 2014. If it doesn't get through..I think I'll just cut my throat if there is another Tory Government in the UK!
Seriously...the only thing I'd really miss is the bus pass if I'm still living up here by 2015. Comes in handy when you have to take three buses to visit the family.
Well worth reading: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/the-bedroom-tax-is-just-the-latest-assault-on-our-poorest-citizens-8478898.html
MerlinScot
04-Feb-13, 11:26
Social anxiety and in general being afraid has costs me some years of unemployment. Only recently did I approach the GP about depression in January.
I'm not on benefits, instead my dad is supporting me. The guilt I feel is enormous. I could easily go into town and start signing on but at the same time I already feel hopeless and guilty.
This week I'm thinking about calling the riverside practice and asking for a sick line. Obviously I'll begin paying my dad back with whatever income I get.
Sanyo, you should check with the GP practice if they have any support for depression, I'd bet they do.
Do it quickly though. It is not a matter of benefits, it is a health matter and you need to start thinking about yourself before thinking of going to work or giving money back to your father.
That is very important. I've been in such a state for years (it seems another life now!) and I needed a lot of help.
Feel free to PM me.
MerlinScot
04-Feb-13, 11:31
Well worth reading: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/the-bedroom-tax-is-just-the-latest-assault-on-our-poorest-citizens-8478898.html
That's awful Flynn :(
Many apartments for social housing are two/three bedrooms in the countryside, so even if you're a single person in the list you get more bedrooms than you need.
Awful.
Sanyo, you should check with the GP practice if they have any support for depression, I'd bet they do.
Do it quickly though. It is not a matter of benefits, it is a health matter and you need to start thinking about yourself before thinking of going to work or giving money back to your father.
That is very important. I've been in such a state for years (it seems another life now!) and I needed a lot of help.
Feel free to PM me.
Hey, I called in and got a sick line. I'm very unfamiliar with how this works though, I either bring it to my employer (but I'm unemployed) or bring it to social security (don't I have to be on jobseeker's allowance though?). I'm very clueless as I said.
M Swanson
04-Feb-13, 15:26
Hey, I called in and got a sick line. I'm very unfamiliar with how this works though, I either bring it to my employer (but I'm unemployed) or bring it to social security (don't I have to be on jobseeker's allowance though?). I'm very clueless as I said.
I live south of the border Sanyo, but I've just read your first post and like Merlin, I'm so pleased to read that you're getting help with your depression. It's not at all easy to live with, but you've taken the first big step and have very sensibly started a short journey to getting some financial help, that you're entitled to. Perhaps you should now visit your local Job Centre, to find out all the benefits you can apply for? It's great to see you making progress and it'd be good to hear how things turn out for you.
Good luck. x
I live south of the border Sanyo, but I've just read your first post and like Merlin, I'm so pleased to read that you're getting help with your depression. It's not at all easy to live with, but you've taken the first big step and have very sensibly started a short journey to getting some financial help, that you're entitled to. Perhaps you should now visit your local Job Centre, to find out all the benefits you can apply for? It's great to see you making progress and it'd be good to hear how things turn out for you.
Good luck. x
Thanks for that, going to give them a call now.
M Swanson
04-Feb-13, 15:35
Brilliant Sanyo. I bet you're feeling a little better already. :cool:
riggerboy
04-Feb-13, 16:04
"I'm 83 and Tired" Worth reading.....
This should be required reading for every man, woman and child
"I'm 83 and I'm Tired"
I'm 83. Except for brief period in the 50's when I was doing my National
Service, I've worked hard since I was 17. Except for some serious health challenges, I put in 50-hour weeks, and didn't call in sick in nearly 40 years. I made a reasonable salary, but I didn't inherit my job or my income, and I worked to get where I am. Given the economy, it looks as though retirement was a bad idea, and I'm tired. Very tired.
I'm tired of being told that I have to "spread the wealth" to people who don't have my work ethic. I'm tired of being told the government will take the money I earned, by force if necessary, and give it to people too lazy to earn it.
I'm tired of being told that Islam is a "Religion of Peace," when every day I can read dozens of stories of Muslim men killing their sisters, wives and daughters for their family "honor"; of Muslims rioting over some slight offense; of Muslims murdering Christian and Jews because they aren't "believers"; of Muslims burning schools for girls; of Muslims stoning
teenage rape victims to death for "adultery"; of Muslims mutilating the genitals of little girls; all in the name of Allah, because the Qur'an and Shari'a law tells them to.
I'm tired of being told that out of "tolerance for other cultures" we must let Saudi Arabia and other Arab countries use our oil money to fund mosques
and madrassa Islamic schools to preach hate in Australia, New Zealand UK, America and Canada, while no one from these countries are allowed to
fund a church, synagogue or religious school in Saudi Arabia or any other Arab country to teach love and tolerance..
I'm tired of being told I must lower my living standard to fight global warming, which no one is allowed to debate.
I'm tired of being told that drug addicts have a disease, and I must help support and treat them, and pay for the damage they do. Did a giant germ
rush out of a dark alley, grab them, and stuff white powder up their noses or stick a needle in their arm while they tried to fight it off?
I'm tired of hearing wealthy athletes, entertainers and politicians of all parties talking about innocent mistakes, stupid mistakes or youthful mistakes, when we all know they think their only mistake was getting caught. I'm tired of people with a sense of entitlement, rich or poor.
I'm really tired of people who don't take responsibility for their lives and actions. I'm tired of hearing them blame the government, or discrimination
or big-whatever for their problems.
I'm also tired and fed up with seeing young men and women in their teens and early 20's be-deck themselves in tattoos and face studs, thereby making themselves un-employable and claiming money from the Government.
Yes, I'm damn tired. But I'm also glad to be 83.. Because, mostly, I'm not going to have to see the world these people are making. I'm just sorry for my granddaughter and their children. Thank God I'm on the way out and not on the way in.
I'm tired of reading far-right ultra-conservative propaganda dressed up as anonymous anecdotes.
Brilliant Sanyo. I bet you're feeling a little better already. :cool:
Feeling better yep, after a phone call with Jobseeker's I'm now claiming benefit.
They're sending me a questionnaire and I also have to pick up my sick line this week and take that to the Job Center.. I guess a specific date is required for that but I'll figure it out..
Thanks again.
riggerboy
04-Feb-13, 18:18
I'm tired of reading far-right ultra-conservative propaganda dressed up as anonymous anecdotes.
Can work wont work is that the ethics here now ,
riggerboy
04-Feb-13, 18:20
Aye and would YOU be happy if you lost your job and after 12 months of fruitless interviews and job searching YOU were told you were getting a food parcel until you shift your lazy ass into gear??? hmm....
http://www.smaggle.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/the-dumb-ass-test-big1.jpg
Try lower your sights , any work is better than no work,
M Swanson
04-Feb-13, 18:34
Can work wont work is that the ethics here now ,
Yes, I believe it must be Rigger. After all, we've allowed 4 million migrants to take residency here, to fill "vacancies that our own won't take." So, there must be ample work for all? And this year it's anticipated that another 250,000 will be arriving. Yippee! Another small army arriving to pay tax into the Treasury pot. Are we blessed, or what? :D
Yes, I believe it must be Rigger. After all, we've allowed 4 million migrants to take residency here, to fill "vacancies that our own won't take." So, there must be ample work for all? And this year it's anticipated that another 250,000 will be arriving. Yippee! Another small army arriving to pay tax into the Treasury pot. Are we blessed, or what? :D
Economic migrants aren't the problem, they're doing jobs (and grateful) that are beneath the British lazy sods that know every trick in the book to stay out of work.
M Swanson
04-Feb-13, 18:44
I have absolutely no problem with workers coming from anywhere, Rheg, provided the jobs are there and there's none of our own people to take them. Instead of importing workers, years ago, (we're looking at a huge number,) the system which allows, even encourages people, not to work, should have been tackled first, imo. Don't you get a little cheesed-off with reading the hard luck stories of the long-term unemployed, when we know that there are ample jobs to go round? We're looking at 4 Million and rising. Aren't we?
Try lower your sights , any work is better than no work,
i lower my aim for no-one, why should i? oh and just especially for your info, i have a job..... i've paid in for over 25 years so i can safely say if i claim benefits in future it will be because i am entitled to them! now wheres that champagne & caviar food parcel
riggerboy
04-Feb-13, 18:55
i lower my aim for no-one, why should i? oh and just especially for your info, i have a job..... i've paid in for over 25 years so i can safely say if i claim benefits in future it will be because i am entitled to them! now wheres that champagne & caviar food parcel
Good for you, then as we are in the same boat, don't tell me it doesn't boil your blood when you see the scrounges out side the bookies driving around in cars best of everything and won't work for anything, in the pub having a ball on our hard paid taxes
riggerboy
04-Feb-13, 19:00
Economic migrants aren't the problem, they're doing jobs (and grateful) that are beneath the British lazy sods that know every trick in the book to stay out of work.
Yip if only the unemployable British would be made to take what is on offer instead of waiting on hand out this country would be better off by a long way
Can work wont work is that the ethics here now ,
Work makes you free, is that the ideology now? Persecute the poor for being poor, that seems to be the 'British' way now. Forget tolerance and fair play, instead stigmatise, ridicule, belittle, persecute, and blame the poorest and weakest in society. It's disgusting, and it is not an ideology my grandparents fought and died for. In fact they went to war to fight AGAINST those who thought that way.
riggerboy
04-Feb-13, 20:01
Work makes you free, is that the ideology now? Persecute the poor for being poor, that seems to be the 'British' way now. Forget tolerance and fair play, instead stigmatise, ridicule, belittle, persecute, and blame the poorest and weakest in society. It's disgusting, and it is not an ideology my grandparents fought and died for. In fact they went to war to fight AGAINST those who thought that way.
Yes and my father fought for the right of the British to be free, hard working and contain enough self respect not to lay about taking hand outs with no care in the world, if you happen to be in the ranks of the unemployed you should remember they fought and died to ensure you were safe, it's not the countries fault your unemployed that results lies with you, and if you happen to be in the ranks of the employed then is this how you want your taxes spend in this way, handed out to lazy people, there is work out there, my own son left school and within 4 weeks was in full time employment, not the job he wanted but rather than scrounge of the state he went to work, it's call family values and ethics, as I stated more than 12 months on the dole, folk should be given food parcels or made to work for the benefits they were receiving, sorry your opinion doesn't match mine but then that's why they are called opinions they differ from person to person,
as for persecuting the poor,
what about the persecuting of the poor TAX payer,
fair play would that not be related to each doing what he she can for the good of themselves and the county to which they belong, and not letting some mug pay for it all as they sit doing naff all,
It doesn't matter to me what you think , I can read between the lines and as far as I can see you are defending your own action and state of employment, the tax payer owes you nothing it's you that ows the tax payer,
Instead of sitting pontificating about the hardships of the unemployed take a moment and think about the working class people that pay you wages, for doing nothing,
The tories win power by divide and rule. They lie and stigmatise and set the working poor against the non-working poor, all the time despising both. The hard of thinking fall for it every time.
I enjoy reading your posts. They're so inaccurate they're laughable. And they're helping me win at Bingo (http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q672/Forumstufftoo/Forum bits/Bullshitbingo028_zps26bbf0b4.jpg).
riggerboy
04-Feb-13, 20:21
The tories win power by divide and rule. They lie and stigmatise and set the working poor against the non-working poor, all the time despising both. The hard of thinking fall for it every time.
I enjoy reading your posts. They're so inaccurate they're laughable. And they're helping me win at Bingo (http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q672/Forumstufftoo/Forum bits/Bullshitbingo028_zps26bbf0b4.jpg).
Glad you enjoy them, because i find your posts a load of waffle designed to make the scrounges feel better about themselves,
M Swanson
04-Feb-13, 20:24
I enjoy reading your posts. They're so inaccurate they're laughable. And they're helping me win at Bingo (http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q672/Forumstufftoo/Forum bits/Bullshitbingo028_zps26bbf0b4.jpg).
LOLOL. So it's all right to "ridicule, belittle and persecute," as long as it's you doing it, Flynn! Toooooo funny! [lol]
LOLOL. So it's all right to "ridicule, belittle and persecute," as long as it's you doing it, Flynn! Toooooo funny! [lol]
There's a big difference: I'm ridiculing you personally, I'm not ridiculing an entire section of society based on ill-informed small-minded prejudice, as you are.
M Swanson
04-Feb-13, 20:34
There's a big difference: I'm ridiculing you personally, I'm not ridiculing an entire section of society based on ill-informed small-minded prejudice, as you are.
Ay? I wasn't even referring to me, Flynn. Check the quote in response to Riggers' post - the clue's in there! Doh! :lol:
I really do hate to say this but it does so remind me of the way the Nazis demonised the Jews to such an extent that on the whole the people of Germany came to view them as sub-human so didn't really care what happened to them, thus allowing the holocaust to happen with little to no opposition.
Yes and my father fought for the right of the British to be free, hard working and contain enough self respect not to lay about taking hand outs with no care in the world, if you happen to be in the ranks of the unemployed you should remember they fought and died to ensure you were safe, it's not the countries fault your unemployed that results lies with you, and if you happen to be in the ranks of the employed then is this how you want your taxes spend in this way, handed out to lazy people, there is work out there, my own son left school and within 4 weeks was in full time employment, not the job he wanted but rather than scrounge of the state he went to work, it's call family values and ethics, as I stated more than 12 months on the dole, folk should be given food parcels or made to work for the benefits they were receiving, sorry your opinion doesn't match mine but then that's why they are called opinions they differ from person to person,
as for persecuting the poor,
what about the persecuting of the poor TAX payer,
fair play would that not be related to each doing what he she can for the good of themselves and the county to which they belong, and not letting some mug pay for it all as they sit doing naff all,
It doesn't matter to me what you think , I can read between the lines and as far as I can see you are defending your own action and state of employment, the tax payer owes you nothing it's you that ows the tax payer,
Instead of sitting pontificating about the hardships of the unemployed take a moment and think about the working class people that pay you wages, for doing nothing,
As did mine, riggerboy, and I can remember distinctly him saying to me in the 1980s that he was sorry for my generation as he felt that despite fighting in WWII he would have had a better life than we could look forward to. As a long time Labour activist, he was having difficulty, even then, in seeing a lot of difference in the something for nothing ideology...bar the Tories aimed their version at the better off and Labour aimed it at the worse off..but whichever their proclivities as to vote-buying attempts, he perceived both options were getting to a level he didn't think it was fair for his kids to repay over their lifetimes.
The problem is the system. Sure there are some folks who wouldn't work officially for any money and have to pay tax and NI.....but relatively few, imo....and others who deliberately scam the system...but again relatively few in the scheme of a 63.5 million population. But where is the logic in a system which pays people more than is necessary to meet their basic needs, which is what was intended in 1948.
Our politicians with their "relative poverty" crap have made this rod for the backs of the UK taxpayer. Relative poverty appears to mean that everybody with kids has to be in a position to buy "stuff" to ensure private business makes profit. A year or so back, I went online to the governrnent site you can use to work out your "entitlements". I used my male offsprings 2 kids and put his income in as the minimum wage over a 40 hour week with a stay-at home wife.....and I was gobsmacked at the amount we would pay him as recompense for working for bare minimum wages. And that's the problem, imo....not the fact that we pay single people slightly more than I, a pensioner, spends on food each week to cover all their needs....but that we subsidise businesses to pay crap wages and pay people to have children.
I've just done it again...out of interest....and according to HMRC, if I really was a married male with a non-working wife, taking home just slightly over minimum rate wages, and with kids of 13 and 15, I'd probably be entitled to get £974.40 in Child Tax Credits and £323.94 in working Tax Credits...about £1300 annually on a £13000 annual income before tax. So basically the taxpayer would be giving me enough to take my monthly take home wage up to £1056 monthly and in return, I'd be paying £326 annually in tax and NI...and my employer, and his profits, would be quids in.
Just how stupid is that? And that is what is wrong with the system......not the levels of benefits for those not working, but the levels of benefits for employers!
riggerboy
05-Feb-13, 02:05
There's a big difference: I'm ridiculing you personally, I'm not ridiculing an entire section of society based on ill-informed small-minded prejudice, as you are.
As I stated, you don't read you just pontificate, your not ridiculing me your ridiculing yourself, hahaha
neilsermk1
05-Feb-13, 13:55
Perhaps you should now visit your local Job Centre, to find out all the benefits you can apply for? It's great to see you making progress and it'd be good to hear how things turn out for you.
Good luck. x
Perhaps visit the job centre and find out if there is any suitable work might be a better idea to re-establish your battered self esteem.
Good Luck I hope it all works out for you.
roadbowler
06-Feb-13, 12:01
Economic migrants aren't the problem, they're doing jobs (and grateful) that are beneath the British lazy sods that know every trick in the book to stay out of work.The last type I believe are a minority but, I agree with the first bit. With all the high and mighty "working" on here moaning about "lazy people on benefits", what about the lazy workforce? After working in a few different countries I can safely say the British work ethic is on its way at great speed to pish poor. This is about all that's moving at speed too. Nothing worse than working with a bunch of professional skivers and breengers. Which is why employers are probably much more inclined to hire Poles and Slovakians and soon Bulgarians and Romainians.
The last type I believe are a minority but, I agree with the first bit. With all the high and mighty "working" on here moaning about "lazy people on benefits", what about the lazy workforce? After working in a few different countries I can safely say the British work ethic is on its way at great speed to pish poor. This is about all that's moving at speed too. Nothing worse than working with a bunch of professional skivers and breengers. Which is why employers are probably much more inclined to hire Poles and Slovakians and soon Bulgarians and Romainians.
Can't disagree with that, roadbowler. The work ethic I was brought up believing in, and to which I always adhered, seems to have been pretty much subsumed by the current "entitlement" culture....as in they are "entiltled" to be professional skivers and breengers if their employment doesn't reward them at the level they expect.
Whatever happened to working for what you have freely contracted to work for at the level which equates to actually doing your job? Does any employment contract nowadays state that it is acceptable to reduce your work rate to compensate for the fact that your wage rate doesn't match your inflated opinion of your worth?
On the radio the other day, I actually heard someone say he wasn't going to accept any job which meant he had to start work before 9.30 am. People aren't coming in from the EU to TAKE our jobs....we are wrapping our jobs up in the paper of "I am entitled to better" and fecking handing them over!
i dont see what will change by voicing opinions on some web board...apart from enraging each other will it make a change nope? will it annoy people on benefits? yep.. do something creative moan at your government that you so highly rate. (imo) it seems if they was doing there job more people would be happy. but since belittiling people is what your aiming to do...on a web board i will ignore.... i dont deal with trolls adios
neilsermk1
07-Feb-13, 13:56
Couldn't agree more we get the government we deserve. Perhaps if they concentrated on educating people to a reasonable standard we would reduce the "unemployable" section of society and reduce the benefits bill.
i dont see what will change by voicing opinions on some web board...apart from enraging each other will it make a change nope? will it annoy people on benefits? yep.. do something creative moan at your government that you so highly rate. (imo) it seems if they was doing there job more people would be happy. but since belittiling people is what your aiming to do...on a web board i will ignore.... i dont deal with trolls adios
rob murray
07-Feb-13, 14:08
Arbeit macht frei (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/en:Arbeit_macht_frei#German)
rob murray
07-Feb-13, 14:21
Arbeit macht frei (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/en:Arbeit_macht_frei#German)
Fascist bar stewards
Yet another example of people turning down good work:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21374268
“People who dismiss the unemployed and dependent as ‘parasites’ fail to understand economoics and parasitism. A successful parasite is one that is not recognized by its host, one that can make its host work for it without appearing as a burden. Such is the ruling class in a capitalist society.”
— Jason Read
rob murray
08-Feb-13, 11:55
I have absolutely no problem with workers coming from anywhere, Rheg, provided the jobs are there and there's none of our own people to take them. Instead of importing workers, years ago, (we're looking at a huge number,) the system which allows, even encourages people, not to work, should have been tackled first, imo. Don't you get a little cheesed-off with reading the hard luck stories of the long-term unemployed, when we know that there are ample jobs to go round? We're looking at 4 Million and rising. Aren't we?
Im really glad to see that you have absolutely no problem with workers coming from anywhere.....and am heartened to hear that you ( not we ! ) know there are ample jobs to go round... I read that in the Dandy on line to. Maybe you could do us all a favour and start posting local jobs that you know are available on line right here on the org...and storm off to Girnigoe Street Wick with your list of jobs and demand that JCP fill the vacancies ! Im sure they would welcome your community minded assistance
Well I was at the job centre yesterday,went on their computer thing and clicked on this weeks local jobs.......wow there were two jobs,that's gonna get all us useless dole bludgers back into work,I am afraid all the ones who rip the system off better watch out,with this any jobs available in caithness there will be nowhere to hide ;) in fact we will all have to take two jobs on just to fill all the vacancies.......not! X
I spotted this on Facebook today. I cant link to if because there is inappropriate language in the comments.
Fahmeena is 30 years old. She can’t walk or talk and has an estimated mental age of about 3 years old.She likes to be called Princess Meena.
ATOS – in their wisdom – have assessed her and have decided that Princess Meena doesn’t need any benefits and she should go and get a job instead.So Meena’s sister – Farzana – has decided to turn to social media to ask for ideas about what job she could do.
Here’s some information to help you with ideas for work for Meena:Meena has Profound Multiple Learning Disabilities (PMLD), brain damage, Cerebral Palsy, can’t talk, can’t walk, has a mental age of 3, is incontinent and likes wearing pink and Minnie the Mouse headbands. If you have any ideas for jobs that Meena can do, you can post your ideas under the hashtag #JobsforMeena on Twitter.
Presumably Princess Meena is an example of one of the myriad ’scroungers’ unfairly claiming disability benefits we hear so much about.Not a word of this is satire I can assure you, but I’m sure many people will have the same question as I have.What have we become in this once great country that we turn our backs on people like Meena?
changilass
11-Apr-13, 21:41
All she needs do is appeal, if her circumstances are as her sister states, then the ruling will be overturned.
This is stupid.
You are absolutely right its stupid. In the meantime she has no benefits. She will be aent to the jobcentre to claim JSA but wont get it because ahem she is unable to work. If she has a carer, which she will have then their money may be stopped too as Meena isnt entitled to hers, then her carer wont be entitled either. You couldnt make it up!!!! She will appeal Of course but that may take weeks or months and then she may very well be called for an assessment again. And the whole sorry story goes on for meena and thousands of other people. Stupid, doesnt even come close!
Pedro Hopper
11-Apr-13, 22:30
You know what I'd prefer? The government get you to elect a person or organisation to which your proportion of you tax money is given directly. Or something.
Thanks
changilass
11-Apr-13, 22:44
This from her sisters own site:
They've assessed from form - we havent even had FTF assessment which is what we were expecting - so hoping a massive mistake
Sounds like they filled the form in wrong
Well I was at the job centre yesterday,went on their computer thing and clicked on this weeks local jobs.......wow there were two jobs,that's gonna get all us useless dole bludgers back into work,I am afraid all the ones who rip the system off better watch out,with this any jobs available in caithness there will be nowhere to hide ;) in fact we will all have to take two jobs on just to fill all the vacancies.......not! X
Do employers have to advertise vacancies at the job centre?
I have never even looked for work there in my life, always from the paper or Internet.
Interestingly folk talk about the lack of work in Caithness, perhaps if there are no suitable jobs for you here you should consider relocation to a more afluent area.
riggerboy
11-Apr-13, 23:25
Well I was at the job centre yesterday,went on their computer thing and clicked on this weeks local jobs.......wow there were two jobs,that's gonna get all us useless dole bludgers back into work,I am afraid all the ones who rip the system off better watch out,with this any jobs available in caithness there will be nowhere to hide ;) in fact we will all have to take two jobs on just to fill all the vacancies.......not! X
did you apply for any of the 2 jobs, ???? if they didnt suit then did you atleast tell someone who might have been interested, ???
This from her sisters own site: They've assessed from form - we havent even had FTF assessment which is what we were expecting - so hoping a massive mistakeSounds like they filled the form in wrongWell lets hope so although it didnt matter for this woman. http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-19844675They even decided she was a man!
Do employers have to advertise vacancies at the job centre?
I have never even looked for work there in my life, always from the paper or Internet.
Interestingly folk talk about the lack of work in Caithness, perhaps if there are no suitable jobs for you here you should consider relocation to a more afluent area.
No employers dont have to advertise at the job centre,but as I am unemployed at the moment I do have to attend the job centre AND prove I am actively looking for work! I look all over for jobs,not just in the job centre,I was merely stating that those people who seem to think there are endless jobs available but we are just too lazy to work,are infact wrong :( Oh and FYI I used to be full time employed,never had to apply for a job in years as I was lucky enough to have skills that meant that I was approached and offered jobs,how times have changed! Oh and as for moving,yip no problem,I shall happily move away if someone gives me the money to relocate myself and my children,oh and give me a job when I get there! Wake up people you are all demonising the wrong people!x
did you apply for any of the 2 jobs, ???? if they didnt suit then did you atleast tell someone who might have been interested, ???
Nope sadly I dont have a license to drive a digger and neither am I a fully qualified electrician x
rob murray
12-Apr-13, 14:46
No employers dont have to advertise at the job centre,but as I am unemployed at the moment I do have to attend the job centre AND prove I am actively looking for work! I look all over for jobs,not just in the job centre,I was merely stating that those people who seem to think there are endless jobs available but we are just too lazy to work,are infact wrong :( Oh and FYI I used to be full time employed,never had to apply for a job in years as I was lucky enough to have skills that meant that I was approached and offered jobs,how times have changed! Oh and as for moving,yip no problem,I shall happily move away if someone gives me the money to relocate myself and my children,oh and give me a job when I get there! Wake up people you are all demonising the wrong people!x
Well put, you deal with and spell out the impracticalities of the get on yer bike theory ! Hope you can land a job so best wishes.
No employers dont have to advertise at the job centre,but as I am unemployed at the moment I do have to attend the job centre AND prove I am actively looking for work! I look all over for jobs,not just in the job centre,I was merely stating that those people who seem to think there are endless jobs available but we are just too lazy to work,are infact wrong :( Oh and FYI I used to be full time employed,never had to apply for a job in years as I was lucky enough to have skills that meant that I was approached and offered jobs,how times have changed! Oh and as for moving,yip no problem,I shall happily move away if someone gives me the money to relocate myself and my children,oh and give me a job when I get there! Wake up people you are all demonising the wrong people!x
What kind of work do you want?
Lots of firms out there pay a relocation package
rob murray
12-Apr-13, 15:42
What kind of work do you want?
Lots of firms out there pay a relocation package
They dont...unless its a high executive type position ( speaking from experience )
What kind of work do you want?
Lots of firms out there pay a relocation package
Thats easy....something that pays the bills,feeds and clothes my kids and I am happy,I dont want big bucks for little work,just a decent job with a decent wage,I am not workshy,a slacker,a dolebludger or anything else,I am just unlucky enough to have had an accident at work and my company chose to not renew my contract (the accident was not my fault and could never be deemed to be mine before you ask) Oh and it would be nice to be able to find a job locally so I can live where I was born and brought up,noy have to move somewhere where I have no family,friends or support system,plus my kids kind of like being able to see their family when they want to......x
They dont...unless its a high executive type position ( speaking from experience )In my experience loads of firms pay it, in turn for a minimum term lock in to stop staff from jumping ship so often
Find us an advert then mi16
In my experience loads of firms pay it, in turn for a minimum term lock in to stop staff from jumping ship so often
pm me some names and numbers then and I will happily apply,perhaps getting out of Caithness and its narrow minded attitude would be a good new start x
Find us an advert then mi16https://careers.peopleclick.com/careerscp/client_lloydsregister/external/jobDetails.do?functionName=getJobDetail&jobPostId=8648&localeCode=en-us
There you go
well if they DWP would let me retrain then this may be an option(they wont...I checked),but just now I have no experience in survey work,nor oil work,or indeed any of the construction based types of work,so I guess its back to looking for something local that I can do while being put down by people for not doing anything x
changilass
12-Apr-13, 17:46
Prison service train and offer relocation packages.
As I expected. Jobs that offer relocation packages are generally specialist or skilled jobs and offer relocation precisely because they are hard to fill. If you are looking for an ordinary, unskilled and semi skilled job, then it is unlikely that you will be offered a relocation package to work in an office, a shop, or a call centre. To expect people to just move, unless they have distinct specialised marketable skills is not realistic.
Prison Service is not currently recruiting for prison officers
cptdodger
12-Apr-13, 18:23
My partner and I moved here in 2009 due to his job (no relocation package). Within a year he was made redundant. Since being here I have had two jobs, both seasonal (I do'nt claim benefits) and applied for loads,most of which never get back to me. My partner was an IT engineer, but there are not many jobs in that field here, so last year having finished a contract with the Highland Council, we decided to try to move back to England, unfortunately we did not have the money for removals, rent and deposit, So my partner decided to go back to work for Bourne Leisure in Skegness (I stayed here) which provided accommodation, just so he would be employed. Did'nt really think that one through ! as he was on less than the minimum wage because they took the accommodation cost out of his wage at source, and we still had bills to pay here. He left last July and I did'nt see him until January this year. Spending Christmas on your own is no fun, trust me. Luckily enough he has now secured employment here and I am still looking.
One thing we did find though, my partner was applying for jobs all over Britain, but the minute they saw where he lived, I have to say, it put them off employing him. If it was that easy just to uproot and move for a job, we would have done it three years ago, unfortunately we just do not have the money to do it.
https://careers.peopleclick.com/careerscp/client_lloydsregister/external/jobDetails.do?functionName=getJobDetail&jobPostId=8648&localeCode=en-us
There you go
Aye there you go smart ***....
QUOTE _ _ _We are looking for an HNC/Degree qualified Inspection engineer with a proven track record of relevant experience in the following :
NDT
Welding Specifications ( Particularly pipelines)
Lifting Equipment
Pressure Vessels
Well Procedures
Working knowlegde of ASME 8/9 and ANSI B31.1 is essential.
I think if there was anybody in Wick or surrounding area with those required qualifications then they certainly wouldn't be reading your tripe on the Org nor would they be using the local job centre to find work....
Aye there you go smart ***....QUOTE _ _ _We are looking for an HNC/Degree qualified Inspection engineer with a proven track record of relevant experience in the following :NDTWelding Specifications ( Particularly pipelines)Lifting EquipmentPressure VesselsWell ProceduresWorking knowlegde of ASME 8/9 and ANSI B31.1 is essential.I think if there was anybody in Wick or surrounding area with those required qualifications then they certainly wouldn't be reading your tripe on the Org nor would they be using the local job centre to find work....Really?Loads of folk in Caithness that are perfectly suited to the role
Seriously? Well perhaps they can all relocate and then there may be some jobs up here....oh yeah I forgot I am not qualified for that! I give up,people will think what they want of others,I just hope you are never unlucky enough to find misfortune dealt to you! x
Whoa steady, I haven't knocked you once for being unemployed.My aim was to help you think outside of the box a little.You have stated plenty about what you are not qualified for, it would be more helpful if you stated what you were qualified for I.e. what was the job you had that employers head hunted you for in the past?Sodexo are often looking for offshore stewards, depends on the home situation though.
Whoa steady, I haven't knocked you once for being unemployed.My aim was to help you think outside of the box a little.You have stated plenty about what you are not qualified for, it would be more helpful if you stated what you were qualified for I.e. what was the job you had that employers head hunted you for in the past?Sodexo are often looking for offshore stewards, depends on the home situation though.Apologies I didn't mean to get at you about my situation,I just get annoyed at times at who simple people who are in work think it is to get a job. Offshore steward is of no use to me,I am a single parent,with an elderly mum so no hope of anything like that,likewise I am now unable to do night shifts. I am qualified in social care and there in is the problem,I used to work shifts and sleepovers,which I am no longer able to do (was fine when I had a husband here watching the kids) so really I now need something that is 9-5 and trust me I have applied for anything and everything,I live in hope though x
orkneycadian
13-Apr-13, 09:48
Maybe someday, we'll all waken up and realise that it doesn't matter how long we have been paying our taxes and national insurance, there is no little cupboard at 11 Downing Street (or Holyrood if you are that way inclined) that has our name on it, and contains all the money we have paid in, waiting to be paid back out again when we need it. Sorry, but that tax you paid in 50 years ago probably got spent on something, benefits included, 49 years and 51 weeks ago.
To get something paid out in benefit next week, its as good as depending on someone paying something in this week. Less and less folk paying in this week, less and less to pay out next week. Fairly straightforward home economics on a grander scale.
At some point, we all have to face up to the fact there is no entitlement to "compensation" simply for being born. It will become a case of you get out (today) what you put in (today). If you sit back and wait for your dinner to be handed to you on a proverbial plate, you'll be hungry.
A report written away back in 1972 entitled "Limits to Growth" used early computer modelling techniques to extrapolate existing trends in things like population growth, resources, services per capita, etc. It was revisited in 2002 and found to be so accurate, some accused those behind it of scaremongering.
Here is an updated graphic from it.
http://gailtheactuary.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/limits-to-growth-forecast.png
It appears that bang on prediction, the Food per Capita and Services per Capita are on the turn after an exponential rise. Bankers may get blamed for some of the economic turmoil in Greece, Spain, Italy, Cyprus and Ireland, but I don't expect that thats what the report writers were predicting to have the biggest effect in 1972.
It was revisited in 2002 and found to be so accurate, some accused those behind it of scaremongering.
Here is an updated graphic from it.
http://gailtheactuary.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/limits-to-growth-forecast.png
.
"So accurate?"
All the trends seen in 1972 were found to be continuing in 2002. The disastrous changes in the curves are all still in the future, so cannot be disproved.
orkneycadian
13-Apr-13, 13:35
I suspect that the Greeks, the Cypriots, the Irish, the Spaniards and the Portugese for starters would tend to agree that they have seen a fall in services, and other austerity measures, which they hope they have seen the last of, but in reality have hardly seen the beginning of. GDP (which is loosely connected to Industrial Output per Capita, give or take a bit of population growth here and there), is still hanging around the same level as it was in 2007/2008. Sure, there might be smokescreens that suggest you don't enter a recession unless you have 2 consecutive quarters of negative growth, but you remarkably emerge from it with just 1 quarter of positive growth, but the fact is, UK GDP / Industrial Output, whatever you want to call it has not managed to get up above where it was in 2007/2008. On the back of that, the population is increasing, so the per capita curve pretty much what it does in the chart above.
If benefits are seen as a "service", then it looks very likely that all of us paying taxes and NI contributions now, are very unlikely to see a state pension when we retire, let alone any other benefits.
You are right orkneycadian... Especially if our governments continue to waste money on trident replacement, funerals for their friends, privatising everything that they possibly can so that their pals and vested interests can make more money, reducing taxation for millionaires, refusing to properly tackle tax avoidance and on and on it goes.
Scaremongering? No!
Lets look at a rough 30 year period, 1980 - 2010 (ish)
http://i805.photobucket.com/albums/yy337/Phill_Rawlins/limits-to-growth-forecastcopy_zps80b47d6a.jpg
Not as scary now.
Funny how births are currently increasing yet this chart shows them decreasing.
Statistics hey!
Quite what happens after 2025 seems interesting, maybe an invasion of baby eating monsters?
Globally our resources are wearing thin, the planet cannot sustain our demands on it. So in one respect you are quite right. 'Benefits' themselves will be the least of our worries, following this chart through I'd say in 8 to 10 years money / cash / capital, in the sense we know it now, will be worthless.
The only real solution to saving the planet and the human race is a cull, of ourselves. Maybe this is what happens post 2025.
Anyway, even the reports authors reckon it's cobblers.
orkneycadian
14-Apr-13, 11:54
Not quite Phill. The Birth Rate has long been in decline, as has the Death Rate. But the former has been declining slower than the latter meaning the population is increasing.
If the Birth Rate and the Death Rate swap positions, as in the chart, then the population will decrease, as more die than are born. Not exactly an invasion of "baby eating monsters"
And isolating a section of the graph pre 2010, cutting off the "wobbles" that happen thereafter, just affirm that between 1980 and 2010, the authors predicted that the trends before 1972 would continue
talking bout home aid . i bought a memory foam mattress to help with wife,s back problem,s, . called home aid if they wanted the one i replaced. ( a king size, spotless and very good quality)
yep they called for it and charged me a fiver to uplift it. ok i guess it went to some one needy .but i could have dumped it round the corner at the recycling place for free. .......bought a new cooker . nothing wrong with the old one . gas hob electric fan oven , a zanussi . called home aid . said they did nt want it (gas) had the bayonet new style connection. just push n twiist. oven was factory fitted 13 amp plug. and was serviced just a month before with the service certificate .. so the recycling place got it. .
any way getting back to the topic on here, there are folk s on benefits that clearly are milking the system. some with two council homes . supposedly living apart.
one person i can think on , it may be the same guy mentioned in a post earlier that supposedly lives apart from his family,( i see him walking hand in hand with his wife regularly) do,s get blootered at least twice a week and dos take taxi s home from the pub.sometimes getting helped out of the cab by the driver. pub being less than about quarter a mile away from his home . most people genuinely through no fault of their own are on benefits but there are many more just have it so cushy and have no interest in looking for employment . personally i think that the cards are perhaps a step in the right direction. something clearly has to be done to combat benefit fraud.
You are right Jacko something does need to be done. Pick up the phone and report the fraud. Put more money into fraud prevention. Is there a even a fraud officer or presence in Caithness and Sutherland? I would be surprised. Remove the incentives to commit fraud from the system. Pay two people living together the same as it would cost to pay them seperately and you might remove the incentive to lie about it. There are many ways to combat fraud without tarring EVERY claimant with the same brush.
talking bout home aid . i bought a memory foam mattress to help with wife,s back problem,s, . called home aid if they wanted the one i replaced. ( a king size, spotless and very good quality)
yep they called for it and charged me a fiver to uplift it. ok i guess it went to some one needy .but i could have dumped it round the corner at the recycling place for free. .......bought a new cooker . nothing wrong with the old one . gas hob electric fan oven , a zanussi . called home aid . said they did nt want it (gas) had the bayonet new style connection. just push n twiist. oven was factory fitted 13 amp plug. and was serviced just a month before with the service certificate .. so the recycling place got it. .
any way getting back to the topic on here, there are folk s on benefits that clearly are milking the system. some with two council homes . supposedly living apart.
one person i can think on , it may be the same guy mentioned in a post earlier that supposedly lives apart from his family,( i see him walking hand in hand with his wife regularly) do,s get blootered at least twice a week and dos take taxi s home from the pub.sometimes getting helped out of the cab by the driver. pub being less than about quarter a mile away from his home . most people genuinely through no fault of their own are on benefits but there are many more just have it so cushy and have no interest in looking for employment . personally i think that the cards are perhaps a step in the right direction. something clearly has to be done to combat benefit fraud.
Yes, something should be done about the £0.9billion of annual benefit 'fraud'*. I also think something should be done about the much larger problem of tax fraud, at an estimated £30billion+ per year.
*I highlighted the word fraud because the government figure for benefit 'fraud' also includes mistakes and over payments by the DWP which were not the fault of the recipient.
Yes, something should be done about the £0.9billion of annual benefit 'fraud'*. I also think something should be done about the much larger problem of tax fraud, at an estimated £30billion+ per year.
*I highlighted the word fraud because the government figure for benefit 'fraud' also includes mistakes and over payments by the DWP which were not the fault of the recipient.
Interesting to see this one crop up again. Where is this figure of £30Bn from and how is this 'fraud'* calculated?
*I highlighted the word fraud because I assume it includes evasion / avoidance and mistakes made by the Govt'.
Not quite Phill. The Birth Rate has long been in decline, as has the Death Rate. But the former has been declining slower than the latter meaning the population is increasing.
If the Birth Rate and the Death Rate swap positions, as in the chart, then the population will decrease, as more die than are born. Not exactly an invasion of "baby eating monsters"
And isolating a section of the graph pre 2010, cutting off the "wobbles" that happen thereafter, just affirm that between 1980 and 2010, the authors predicted that the trends before 1972 would continueThe UK birth rate is increasing rather than being in decline. (more pressure on the welfare system?)
And, according to the chart, both the birth rate & death rate goes through the roof in the forecast. So it's not unreasonable to assume that the death rate of babies / young will increase disproportionately thus we cannot rule out baby eating monsters! Or more realistically a collapse of the medical / pharmaceutical sector, lack of neonatal care and a general increase in ill health etc.
Here's your wobbly bits then:
http://i805.photobucket.com/albums/yy337/Phill_Rawlins/limits-to-growth-forecast20002050_zpsb44bd3f1.jpg
2000 - 2050
Interesting to see this one crop up again. Where is this figure of £30Bn from and how is this 'fraud'* calculated?
*I highlighted the word fraud because I assume it includes evasion / avoidance and mistakes made by the Govt'.
Here, page 49:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/118530/annual-fraud-indicator-2012.pdf
Most recent estimate is £35 billion per year.
Hmmm, shall we correct that to the tax 'gap' based on HMRC calculations (which are frequently flawed), to the £14Bn of fraud. This covers 2009/10, I'll hold my hands up and say I haven't studied the figures but if it is anything like 2011 where a £7Bn loss to the taxman was due entirely to incompetence in their calculations, these figures are generally finger in the air tackle.
orkneycadian
14-Apr-13, 17:04
I don't really understand, Phill, the point of snipping selected bits of the graph, then either squashing it vertically, or stretching it horizontally. Whilst the graph has no vertical scale, distorting the shape makes it meaningless. You might as well squish it down to a line, 1 pixel high, and claim that nothing has changed, or will change from 1900 to 2100!
An increasing birthrate will indeed put more strain on the benefits system. More parents staying at home to care for offspring, etc. In theory, in 20 years time, that increased birth rate today, should yield more input to the benefit system, but only if the youth of 20 years want to work and don't simply want to stay at home and become benefit claimants rather than tax payers.
Your "more realistic prediction" is indeed a serious consideration. We already have an NHS system that cannot deliver the same level of care as before to chunks of the country (How many places in the UK now is NHS dentistry just a distant memory? Add to that, closures of district maternity facilities, withdrawal of island doctors and nurses in places like Orkney and the likes) and thats pretty much as expected if the "Services per Capita" line on the graph is to be believed. At this point in time however, I believe we are still at the very top of the turn in the Services line.
Its a long way down yet....
You know what. I dont care about the graph, i dont give a flying fig about coloured lined on a bit of paper. What matters is that in a civilised society looking after the old, the weak, the vulnerable, the unfortunate should be our number one priority. Jobs get people off benefit. Jobs jobs and only jobs.
Whether you are unemployed, sick or disabled the only way off benefits is through investment, growth and jobs.
Not bedroom tax, ATOSassessments, demonising them in the pages of the tabloids or having them do unpaid work in companies where there are no real jobs, not through giving people cards to buy food, not by stopping them having a drink or a packet of fags, not by banning those getting benefit from having a phone, a tv, a computer, a satellite dish or a roof over their head. Not even by giving them a bike, showing them how to snare rabbits or getting them to cut old folks grass.
The only way to get people off benefits is to have a growing economy. The economic policies of this government are preventing growth and therefore there is a lack of jobs.
When there are jobs even the most persistently lazy person would struggle to find an excuse to stay out of work. When there are jobs employers are interested in investing time and effort to help overcome the difficulties that disabled, sick or hard to help people have in finding and keeping work. When there are jobs the benefit bill cones down.
This government has been told again and again by people who are smarter than me or you or even secrets in symmetry that their policies are not working and yet they refuse to change course. They instead persuade the british public that those on benefits are lazy idle scroungers and the british public believes them.
Give us growth, jobs and a public sector employment and benefit service, properly staffed with targets to help people rather than targets to kick them off benefit at whatever cost and to make a damn profit for shareholders and watch people move into work .... Even those people who are hardest to help.
orkneycadian
14-Apr-13, 18:27
Thats my point Squidge. All you ask for demands growth, and you even mention it yourself a few times. But as we are now seeing, an economy that is based solely on growth, and even depends on growth, is an economy that needs an ever increasing pyramid of population to support it. And when both the economies, and the population are ever increasingly dependent on resources (which are either fixed or diminishing), there is only one logical outcome. Thats pretty much what was predicted away back in 1972.
If our economies were described as a pyramid selling scheme or a chain letter, Trading Standards would be advising us to keep a wide berth! The truth is, they are not vastly different...
I don't really understand, Phill ......... distorting the shape makes it meaningless.
We already have an NHS system that cannot deliver the same level of care as before to chunks of the country (How many places in the UK now is NHS dentistry just a distant memory? Add to that, closures of district maternity facilities, withdrawal of island doctors and nurses in places like Orkney and the likes) and thats pretty much as expected if the "Services per Capita" line on the graph is to be believed.
Not a lot to understand really, you've hit the nail on the head. Manipulating the axis of the graph to alter the apparent findings is just the type of tactic used by the likes of the Daily Wail to scaremonger people into believing whatever crap they want to believe.
Additionally it shows that statistics are akin to damn lies, using that graph you cannot disprove my baby eating monster theory.
Depending where you look, and what you choose to look for, you may find that 'per capita' the NHS in Scotland, under a Scottish Government is delivering quite well. Just because you remove 'expensive' services from the few (i.e. Island Doctors) doesn't mean you don't deliver more services to to the higher populated areas.
Centralisation, statistically this lowers cost while simultainiously delivering more services to more of the population. Geographically it is a disaster, much like our graph.
My point simply, is that the politicos et al can show that they are delivering whatever goals they say they are, or have done. Or may even promise too, by clever use of resources and skewed representation of statistics.
The more people that are made aware of this, the better chance we all have for a future.
Hmmm, shall we correct that to the tax 'gap' based on HMRC calculations (which are frequently flawed), to the £14Bn of fraud. This covers 2009/10, I'll hold my hands up and say I haven't studied the figures but if it is anything like 2011 where a £7Bn loss to the taxman was due entirely to incompetence in their calculations, these figures are generally finger in the air tackle.
I see, you ask for evidence, it is provided from the most reliable source available: the inland revenue, but because it doesn't fit your prejudices you say it's not accurate and that you know better than the inland revenue. Maybe you should phone George Osborne, he needs someone to tell his department where all the money has gone. You seem to think you know better than they with all the resources at their disposal, perhaps you should phone them and let them know it's better to just invent the figures to suit your argument.
I see, you ask for evidence, it is provided from the most reliable source available: the inland revenue, but because it doesn't fit your prejudices you say it's not accurate and that you know better than the inland revenue. Maybe you should phone George Osborne, he needs someone to tell his department where all the money has gone. You seem to think you know better than they with all the resources at their disposal, perhaps you should phone them and let them know it's better to just invent the figures to suit your argument.Please, tell me what my prejudices are?
Regardless of those, I'm not trying to make anything fit. Funny really, some time ago I and others did try to warn the treasury et al about some of their policies. Mr Osborne went ahead and made changes against industry advice and in 2011 there was a £7Bn black hole in their budgets. Part of their 'gap', not fraud.
But then that doesn't look as good on the front page of the Mirror or Daily Wail, not scaremongering enough is it!
............... the government figure for benefit 'fraud' also includes mistakes and over payments by the DWP which were not the fault of the recipient.
the most reliable source available: the inland revenueApologies, forgot to mention that HMRC are 'delivery partners' with DWP for payments, they have rather an interesting joint document on Tackling fraud and error in the benefit and tax credits systems.
rob murray
17-Apr-13, 16:09
Thats my point Squidge. All you ask for demands growth, and you even mention it yourself a few times. But as we are now seeing, an economy that is based solely on growth, and even depends on growth, is an economy that needs an ever increasing pyramid of population to support it. And when both the economies, and the population are ever increasingly dependent on resources (which are either fixed or diminishing), there is only one logical outcome. Thats pretty much what was predicted away back in 1972.
If our economies were described as a pyramid selling scheme or a chain letter, Trading Standards would be advising us to keep a wide berth! The truth is, they are not vastly different...
Well thats the case for Orkney / Shetland separatism up in smoke well done !
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