View Full Version : Scottish Passport
Ancient Mariner
28-Jan-13, 21:46
If Jaba the Hutt gets his way and Scotland becomes independent, what happens to all those British Passports? How long will we be able to use them and how much will new ones cost? If you are a family of 4 for example, will that mean 4 new passports at approx. cost of £85 each? [evil]:roll:
I wonder if you'll need to get them straight away. The Brits won't want a lot of forners swanning around the world with their passports will they?
annemarie482
28-Jan-13, 21:56
You can buy a Scottish passport in the gift house for a couple quid lol ;)
Can you imagine the chaos this will cause! Huge queues at passport offices, long delays because the passport office staff can't keep up with demand - oh yes, and the expense of having to retrain them to ensure that they know what the new rules are! :roll:
On the plus side Scottish tourist board could have a great year with stay at home holidays ... cos no one will be able to leave the country! :cool:
Ancient Mariner
28-Jan-13, 22:00
You can buy a Scottish passport in the gift house for a couple quid lol ;) Probably be as good as the one Jaba's mob will give us. [lol]
Love it !! Because I have read this thread I get adverts advising they can help with my UK Visa application
If the Tories stay in power much longer no one will be able to afford a holiday anyway so wheres the problem?
C3.
In an independent Scotland you will all get to keep your British Passport.... for life!!!! That's until you die!
There is no provision within the law for the UK to remove the passport of anyone who is a law abiding British Citizen. If you become a citizen of another country then you can give up your British Citizenship but it will not be removed from you unless the country that you are becoming a citizen of does not allow dual nationality.
Its here for you http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/britishcitizenship/dualnationality/
You and I and anyone else will be able to apply for a Scottish Passport but will unlikely to be required to do so - there is no point - as a British Subject and an EU citizen you will have the right to live and work here and anywhere else in the EU. The Idea that either the Government of an Independent Scotland or of the United Kingdom would force citizenship on people is not a sensible one and scaremongering at its worst.
piratelassie
29-Jan-13, 00:29
Well said. It would appear those opposed to an independent Scotland only have scare mongering to present to the argument.
In an independent Scotland you will all get to keep your British Passport.... for life!!!! That's until you die!
There is no provision within the law for the UK to remove the passport of anyone who is a laqw abiding British Citizen. If you become a citizen of another country then you can give up your British Citizenship but it will not be removed from you unless the country that you are becoming a citizen of does not allow dual nationality.
Its here for you http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/britishcitizenship/dualnationality/
You and I and anyone else will be able to apply for a Scottish Passport but will unlikely to be required to do so - there is no point - as a British Subject and an EU citizen you will have the right to live and work here and anywhere else in the EU. The Idea that either the Government of an Independent Scotland or of the United Kingdom would force citizenship on people is not a sensible one and scaremongering at its worst.
In an independent Scotland you will all get to keep your British Passport.... for life!!!! That's until you die!
There is no provision within the law for the UK to remove the passport of anyone who is a laqw abiding British Citizen. If you become a citizen of another country then you can give up your British Citizenship but it will not be removed from you unless the country that you are becoming a citizen of does not allow dual nationality.
Its here for you http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/britishcitizenship/dualnationality/
You and I and anyone else will be able to apply for a Scottish Passport but will unlikely to be required to do so - there is no point - as a British Subject and an EU citizen you will have the right to live and work here and anywhere else in the EU. The Idea that either the Government of an Independent Scotland or of the United Kingdom would force citizenship on people is not a sensible one and scaremongering at its worst.
I am confused Squidge. If and when Scotland gets independence, we will still carry United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland passports, as we do at the moment?
Golach you are a british citizen it doesnt matter where you LIVE! It will be YOUR choice to take or not take Scottish citizenship - there is no legal way to remove your citizenship from you. Full stop. There are no grey areas on this - it is clearly defined in law. What nationality do my parents have? They are British - they live in France but they are still British and hold British Passports. The UK may need to design new covers to reflect their new status as the United Kingdom of England Wales and Northern Ireland but they are likely to replace existing ones as and when a passport expires. The important point is that YOU have british citizenship - YOU are a british subject and that cannot be taken away from you as the law stands. If you are going to argue that the law will need to be redrafted then you might be right, but the British Government will not remove British Citizenship from British Citizens - that would damage their international reputation and be completely unworkable.
Golach you are a british citizen it doesnt matter where you LIVE! It will be YOUR choice to take or not take Scottish citizenship
Thanks Squidge for clearing that up. So no matter what the result of Eck's neverendum, we will still be British Citizens? I now know for definate how I will vote.
Oh dear, I have just noticed my UK passport is now out of date............am I now a stateless person, or will I be by 2014?
rich62_uk
29-Jan-13, 09:24
If we are English living in Scotland can we apply for Scottish citizenship and passports ?
In an independent Scotland you will all get to keep your British Passport.... for life!!!! That's until you die!
There is no provision within the law for the UK to remove the passport of anyone who is a law abiding British Citizen. If you become a citizen of another country then you can give up your British Citizenship but it will not be removed from you unless the country that you are becoming a citizen of does not allow dual nationality.
Its here for you http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/britishcitizenship/dualnationality/
You and I and anyone else will be able to apply for a Scottish Passport but will unlikely to be required to do so - there is no point - as a British Subject and an EU citizen you will have the right to live and work here and anywhere else in the EU. The Idea that either the Government of an Independent Scotland or of the United Kingdom would force citizenship on people is not a sensible one and scaremongering at its worst.
Given the current rhetoric issuing from Westminster about 'mass immigration, porous borders' etc. Don't be surprised to see border controls appear if Scotland secedes from the United Kingdom. The remaining UK will not want an open door in the north. And if the loons of UKIP were to have their way we would see a new wall built.
M Swanson
29-Jan-13, 09:40
Golach you are a british citizen it doesnt matter where you LIVE! It will be YOUR choice to take or not take Scottish citizenship - there is no legal way to remove your citizenship from you. Full stop. There are no grey areas on this - it is clearly defined in law. What nationality do my parents have? They are British - they live in France but they are still British and hold British Passports. The UK may need to design new covers to reflect their new status as the United Kingdom of England Wales and Northern Ireland but they are likely to replace existing ones as and when a passport expires. The important point is that YOU have british citizenship - YOU are a british subject and that cannot be taken away from you as the law stands. If you are going to argue that the law will need to be redrafted then you might be right, but the British Government will not remove British Citizenship from British Citizens - that would damage their international reputation and be completely unworkable.
Has there recently been a decision made about this Squidge? According to Miliband, the Scots will no longer be British if they vote for Independence. Perhaps you can link us to the proof that what you state is correct, because I think this information needs to be known.
Scots will not be British if they vote for independence, says Miliband | Politics | guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/jun/07/scottish-independence-ed-miliband)
Squidge said:
"as a British Subject and an EU citizen you will have the right to live and work here and anywhere else in the EU."
Can someone show me where it says that an independent Scotland will definitely still be a member of the EU? As far as I am aware there is still a debate ongoing about this!
Squidge also said:
"What nationality do my parents have? They are British - they live in France but they are still British and hold British Passports."
The fact that they choose to live in France is entirely different. France has not been part of Britain, French people have never been required to hold British Passports in order to travel abroad nor have they voted to sever such ties with Britain.
M Swanson
29-Jan-13, 10:07
Yes, quite right L. According to the latest information from Brussels, Scotland will have to apply for membership to the EU, as a country in its own right. Barosso has stated this very clearly. It will then be up to the other EU member states to decide if Scotland is admitted.
For all the SNP’s rhetoric and bluster they have not been able to answer any questions put to them. As I see it all of these outstanding questions can only be answered after extensive negotiations which take place after the referendum. For many of us this will be too late. IMO Salmond and Sturgeon are deluding themselves if they think the population are going to back the pipedream they are peddling.
Bobinovich
29-Jan-13, 11:21
This is exactly the problem I have with the whole thing. We are going to be asked if we want independence without having any (or enough) of the details on which to base a decision. As much as I feel that independence could be a good thing, I am sure that neither I or the majority of Scots people are that foolhardy to say Yes blindly.
For all we know, if we vote Yes, then both the EU & UK Government could simply say 'Here's our terms...if you want independence then take them, otherwise we've got you by the short & curlies for life'. What bargaining chips do the Scottish Government hold to negotiate changes to those terms? I very much doubt either the EU or UK Government will allow us to cherry pick the best parts & leave the rest...i.e. yes to all the oil, yes to the European market but no to the Euro, to name a few...
Ok
You are British by birth - there is not provision to remove british citizenship from law abiding British Citizens - the only way you can "lose" your British citizenship is if you CHOOSE to give it up or you CHOOSE to take the nationality of a country which does not allow you to keep it.
So Golach - you may not have a passport but you still are a British Citizen. You are not a British Citizen because you have a passport - you get a passport because you are a British Ctizen. You can be a british citizen even if you are born abroad.
So without a passport you are not stateless - you are a British Citizen without a passport:roll:
Alex Salmond said as far back at 2009 that in an Independent Scotland people would be able to hold dual nationality so you will able to hold a Scottish Pasport if you are english and live in Scotland - Im English and Live in Scotland too - I may apply for one but I may not. There has been nothing said since to change that.
M Swanson - Ed Miliband very carefully said that in an Independent Scotland Scots would lose their British Identity - he did not say they would lose their British Citizenship because he couldnt. People live all over the world and retain their British Citizenship
Laguna - you are right the debate continues over the EU - however my point was not about Scotland's membership of the EU it was that As a British citizen you are also an EU citizen. That also may change - David Cameron's referendum may or may not happen and if it does then the rest of the UK may not be EU citizens - there is uncertainty across the board as far as the whole EU issue is concerned.
As for my parents - you are right the CHOOSE to live in France - an Independent Country which is not part of the UK - it could be Norway, Ireland, Australie, Brazil or any other country which is not part of the UK - just like and Independent Scotland would not be part of the UK. France doesnt make them take French citizenship and the UK doesnt make them give up their British Citizenship.
The Euro issue is dead and buried. Bulgaria who had signed up to take the Euro as part of their agreement when joining the EU have said no thanks and aren't doing it. They havent been chucked out of the EU for changing their minds.
This passport issue raises its head every now and again and it is just nonsense . the rules on British citizenship are there for everyone to read, you can make enquiries with experts like I have done and make your own decision based on the evidence. The referendum is not about making everyone Scottish - it is not about changing the nationality of polish people, pakistanis, french. swedish, english and other nationalities who work and live in Scotland - it is about the way that the Country we live in is governed and where the decisions affecting our society are made. Whether you believe that decisions are better made in Scotland by a scottish Government based on the Priorities of Scotland and its people or not.
Golach you are a british citizen it doesnt matter where you LIVE! It will be YOUR choice to take or not take Scottish citizenship - there is no legal way to remove your citizenship from you. Full stop. There are no grey areas on this - it is clearly defined in law. What nationality do my parents have? They are British - they live in France but they are still British and hold British Passports. The UK may need to design new covers to reflect their new status as the United Kingdom of England Wales and Northern Ireland but they are likely to replace existing ones as and when a passport expires. The important point is that YOU have british citizenship - YOU are a british subject and that cannot be taken away from you as the law stands. If you are going to argue that the law will need to be redrafted then you might be right, but the British Government will not remove British Citizenship from British Citizens - that would damage their international reputation and be completely unworkable.
I don't see any Australians with British passports.
I don't see any Australians with British passports.
Im not sure what you mean flynn - but Australia allows dual citizenship so if you are an Australian applying for British citizenship and you qualify for that citizenship then you can hold both British and Australian citizenship - if British applying for Australian Citizenship and qualifying then you can hold both. Im sure there are people on this board that have dual nationality so maybe they can tell us about their experience. I dont know whether it is desirable or not but it is possible. You will not be forced to give up your British citizenship or required to take another citizenship if you dont want to
This is exactly the problem I have with the whole thing. We are going to be asked if we want independence without having any (or enough) of the details on which to base a decision. As much as I feel that independence could be a good thing, I am sure that neither I or the majority of Scots people are that foolhardy to say Yes blindly.
it
And yet you will say no blindly? People are wanting certainty in an environment where there is no certainty on either side. You are voting for where you want the decisions about your life and the society you live in to be made. That is it.
The EU is a case in point..... Last week it was Scotland may or may not be in the EU depending on what paper you read at any one time but the UK will be in the EU. This week - Scotland may or may not be in the EU but the rest of the UK may or may not be in the EU dependent on the referendum results.
We dont know - there will be an election in 2015 and it will depend who forms a government as to who makes that decision.
The same with the economy - we dont know what the economy will be after Independence in 2016. Do we know what the economy will be like in the UK after 2016 if we dont vote YES? No we dont. Some commentators say Scotland will lose its AAA rating and thats a bad thing but last week it was seriously suggested that in the UK as it stands we are in danger of losing our AAA rating. What is the difference?
The referendum is about where the decisions are made - In an Independent Scottish Parliament based on what Scotland needs or in a Westminster parliament based on UK priorities.
The argument that Scotland is too wee too poor and too stupid has disappeared from the mainstream of the debate- it still rages around some of the partisan Facebook pages but those in the know have stopped saying these things because its not true - Scotland can go it alone. If that is the case then it comes down to whether you think Scottish Interests are best served as part of the Union or as an Independent Country and thats up to you to decide for yourself but there is no certainty in EITHER path.... no guarantees.... What you have is plans, hopes and aspirations. So the conservative hopes and aspirations are for a low tax low public sector smaller welfare state and smaller health service. Labour may suggest otherwise in their manifesto and the LibDems too. UKIP hope that we pull up the drawbridge and look after ourselves, The SNP want us in Europe, the SDA out of Europe, Free Higher Education. Bus and tram travel and other things are hopes and plans but nothing either side of the debate is DEFINITE - You will vote for the party which has the plans that meet with your approval in 2015 or 2016 - The referendum is about deciding which Type of Government YOU think will best look after Scotlands interests and grow the best society - I am sure thats what we ALL want - the best society we can have. Thats it. You can listen to the hopes and plans of the SNP, the Green Party, the SDA and the hopes and plans of the Tory Party, Labour and LibDems but none of them can see into the future.
M Swanson
29-Jan-13, 14:45
I really can't get my head around all this. It does seem, that people are going to have to make the most important decision in their life, with so little concrete information to assist them. How many billions of pounds will Scotland need to make Independence a reality? I would imagine that paying off your share of the National Debt will be astronomical. Let alone setting up your own armed forces, contributions to the EU and so many other things. Where will the money come from? Who has these figures? :confused
Ok
You are British by birth - there is not provision to remove british citizenship from law abiding British Citizens - the only way you can "lose" your British citizenship is if you CHOOSE to give it up or you CHOOSE to take the nationality of a country which does not allow you to keep it.
So Golach - you may not have a passport but you still are a British Citizen. You are not a British Citizen because you have a passport - you get a passport because you are a British Ctizen. You can be a british citizen even if you are born abroad.
So without a passport you are not stateless - you are a British Citizen without a passport
Alex Salmond said as far back at 2009 that in an Independent Scotland people would be able to hold dual nationality so you will able to hold a Scottish Pasport if you are english and live in Scotland - Im English and Live in Scotland too - I may apply for one but I may not. There has been nothing said since to change that. .
Oh I wish I could believe you Squidge, but that man Salmond has changed tack and lied so many times since 2009,
M Swanson
29-Jan-13, 14:52
Didn't Salmond promise the people that a continued EU membership was assured? Well, it's not, by a long way and when will you Scots have the answer to this important issue? Before, or after, the vote?
So far, the English have been pretty mute about Scot's Independence, but this could easily change, if they believe it could result in being a cherry picking exercise. As far as the law stands about British status, this could easily be changed. After all, the EU make 75% of Britain's laws anyway.
After all, the EU make 75% of Britain's laws anyway.
Another UKIP lie.
Here's the truth: http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/is-most-of-the-uks-law-made-in-brussels/1498
Im not asking you to beleive ME Golach - Im just some faceless wifie whiling away a rainy dayt when I should be doing housework. Look for yourself - read the stuff attend the meetings and ask the questions - and Im not talking about YES meetings but Bettertogether meetings too. This issue of passports is enshrined in LAW. There is nothing to be gained by forcibly removing citizenship or imposing citizenship on people. It is inconceivable that a 21st Century democracy would do such a thing. Citizenship is a human rights issue and such is protected. There are things to be worried about but this is not one of them. I dont care whether you vote YES NO or dont vote at all as long as you are considering the issues and making decisions based on fact and not scare stories that we will have our British Citizenship ripped from us in a fit of pique by a UK government or be forced to take Scottish citizenship against our will.
Didn't Salmond promise the people that a continued EU membership was assured? Well, it's not, by a long way and when will you Scots have the answer to this important issue? Before, or after, the vote?
So far, the English have been pretty mute about Scot's Independence, but this could easily change, if they believe it could result in being a cherry picking exercise. As far as the law stands about British status, this could easily be changed. After all, the EU make 75% of Britain's laws anyway.
The SNP beleive that it is assured. The SDA would have us out of europe, The Tories are playing hokey cokey with EU membership in - out in out shake it all about......
The decision whether or not to join or remain with the EU will be made by the people of Scotland actually - through their votes for the first government of an independent Scotland. Up until we become independent we will remain members of the EU. We will get to vote for the party which meets out own view. So if I want to be IN Europe - either by remaining in or applying to the EU I would vote for SNP or Labour or LibDems. If I want to be out of the EU I would vote for the SDA if they field candidates or The Tory party - that is no different to what happens now.
Even if the EU say yes come in with open arms mwaa mwaa - We still might be out of Europe if the first government of an Independent Scotland is Tory or SDA.~If thats what happens that will be the way it is - the majority will have voted for their political party and their manifesto will have made clear what will happen and we will have voted on that. It will be up to the people of Scotland to decide in the first place.
As for the earlier post you made which seemed to suggest that Scotland is too wee and too poor to afford independence then I would refer you to the internet and the speeches made around this subject by ALL the political views - no one thinks that Scotland cant afford Independence any more
Ancient Mariner
29-Jan-13, 17:11
Thanks for the info Squidge. As a wrinkly drawing a private pension and holding a British Passport living in an independent Scotland would I pay tax to UK or Scotland?
Wrinkly ancient Mariner? Surely not!!! I dont have the answer to that and I am no expert on pensions but A quick search on the HMRC website says that if you live in a country outside the Uk and receive a private pension from a UK company then you will continue to pay UK tax. The YES campaign say that your private pension will continue to be paid as normal as you will have a private agreement with a private company. As with any change to taxation or other national systems there will be 'legacy' arrangements which will apply for quite some time after the changes. That isnt unusual and happened with changes to Unemployment Benefits in the 80s when JSA was brought in, and the same with Independent Taxation. The thing to remember is that if we get a YES vote then the government will want to make things as least traumatic as possible and so will be working for the best results. My advice is to get along to anything going on in your area and ask the people that make the policies.
......What bargaining chips do the Scottish Government hold to negotiate changes to those terms? ....
Ermmmm.... We've got Nuclear Missiles at Faslane, might as well put them to use....
billmoseley
29-Jan-13, 20:12
i think they should remake spitting image i reckon this independence stuff would make great comical tv
billmoseley
29-Jan-13, 20:17
Ermmmm.... We've got Nuclear Missiles at Faslane, might as well put them to use.... Alrock i'm shocked didn't think you were that type of person :lol:
It will be YOUR choice to take or not take Scottish citizenship
So the scottish government will make Scottish citizenship as a prerequisite to take a job in the police service, armed forces, SI5, SI6, civil service etc etc.
Alrock i'm shocked didn't think you were that type of person :lol:
Well... Just as a deterrent of course... Though, not much good as a deterrent unless you are actually prepared to use them.
So the scottish government will make Scottish citizenship as a prerequisite to take a job in the police service, armed forces, SI5, SI6, civil service etc etc.Oh will they Rheghead? Are you asking me or telling me? I havent read that anywhere. To be honest I would doubt it. It would reduce their pool of suitable candidates to a very small number and would be counter productive. I wouldnt think that was a particularly sensible policy.
I wouldnt think that was a particularly sensible policy.
All security forces around the world restrict candidates on nationality, if they didn't then that could also be a very poor security policy.
Oh well you live and learn. Might be a bit difficult to find Scottish Citizens on day one of Independence though lol.
secrets in symmetry
30-Jan-13, 01:01
Exclusive! The official design for a Scottish Passport from Eck's Minister for Xenophobia.
http://i.imgur.com/r4ZMHT6.jpg
MerlinScot
30-Jan-13, 14:05
This is exactly the problem I have with the whole thing. We are going to be asked if we want independence without having any (or enough) of the details on which to base a decision. As much as I feel that independence could be a good thing, I am sure that neither I or the majority of Scots people are that foolhardy to say Yes blindly.
For all we know, if we vote Yes, then both the EU & UK Government could simply say 'Here's our terms...if you want independence then take them, otherwise we've got you by the short & curlies for life'. What bargaining chips do the Scottish Government hold to negotiate changes to those terms? I very much doubt either the EU or UK Government will allow us to cherry pick the best parts & leave the rest...i.e. yes to all the oil, yes to the European market but no to the Euro, to name a few...
Thanks for posting this... because that's how I felt about it too.
I think that holding the referendum is the right thing anyway. Which way it will go, it is going to be good. If Scots wants independence, they will have it. If Scots don't, SNP will have to adapt to Scots' decision anyway (Hope they will try to wisely rule the country then, instead of wasting time in obnoxious propaganda).
Concerning the debate 'nationality', I never held the British citizenship anyway so even in case of independence nothing changes for me (although I would become an extra-EU citizen because Scotland won't be part of the EU until European Parliament says so).
But... I have to admit that since the independence debate started, I also started to feel an undesired foreigner because, alas... I have no Scottish heritage either, I've been only a resident for years.
So, given that I don't have an ounce of Scottish blood in my veins, should I jump over the Hadrian's Wall before I get run over by a herd of Highlanders wearing kilts?
MerlinScot I dont have an ounce of scottish blood in me either. There is however no need to get the pole vault kit out lol. Get yourself off to Better Together meetings and Yes Scotland meetings and see what they have to say. There will be something happening locally - you can find contact details here for Better Together http://www.bettertogether.net/page/event/detail/nationalcampaignweekend2325nov/wrt9 and there is a yes Highland page on facebook.
MerlinScot
30-Jan-13, 15:56
Squidge, I really thank you for your post. Anyway, I've already been to those meetings and that's why I posted....
In a certain way, all this incessant debate about independence made me feel like I don't 'understand the issue' because I'm not Scottish, therefore my opinion is not important or 'required'.
Fact is that EU citizens residents in Scotland are in the electoral roll too and they will have the right to vote in the referendum. I also voted SNP previously but I started to be in disagreement with them as soon as this independence frenzy started.
I don't see any meaning in hearing over and over again "we will get rid of the ancient rule of the bad Englishmen" because that doesn't stick to any foreigner as a valid argument for independence.
We need to know how Scotland will financially sustain the passage from a Uk member to an independent state.
All the rest.. doesn't stick to people who hold no anti-English grudges....
You are welcome MerlinScot.
There is plenty information out there if you want to look - only recently the Westminster Government said that it make each person in Scotland £1 worse off if Independence for Scotland was introduced. There was a lot of amusement on line about that - along the lines of if its only going to cost a pound here is mine lol. The YES campaign figures suggest that we would be better off across the board but you will need to read stuff and make your mind up. Its hard to get to the bottom of it - it took me weeks!!!!!
I do not accept that the Independence movement is anti english. If it is anti anything then I would suggest that it is anti westminster. People within the Pro Independence voters may well express a variety of views about the monarchy, immigration, the EU, Nato, EFTA,Nuclear Weapons, renewables and on and on and on...... People are fond of asking if the Uk is so terrible then why do I stay here and not go live elsewhere - my answer is that it isnt that bad but I beleive an Independent Scotland can and will be better.
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