View Full Version : North Africa
Is this going to be our next battleground?
billmoseley
21-Jan-13, 19:05
No our troops are tired the public are tired. my opinion is that we will stay well out of ground troops here. The french have taken the lead and will do a good job they have fine armed forces alas i fear many will die fighting for freedom there.
No our troops are tired the public are tired. my opinion is that we will stay well out of ground troops here. The french have taken the lead and will do a good job they have fine armed forces alas i fear many will die fighting for freedom there.
Don't kid yourself. It's mid-term for a deeply unpopular Conservative government looking at being wiped out in the next election. If it isn't North Africa it'll Falklands 2.0 (they're already ramping up the rhetoric on that one). Cameron is desperate for his Maggie-moment.
billmoseley
21-Jan-13, 19:37
Falklands yes we should defend those but it won't come to a conflict the Argentine forces are not up to it and their air force is very outdated.
Falklands yes we should defend those but it won't come to a conflict the Argentine forces are not up to it and their air force is very outdated.
I am with you, we need to defend the Falklands, what next, Gibraltar?
Don't kid yourself. It's mid-term for a deeply unpopular Conservative government looking at being wiped out in the next election. If it isn't North Africa it'll Falklands 2.0 (they're already ramping up the rhetoric on that one). Cameron is desperate for his Maggie-moment.
You may remember it is the other lot that get us into un-popular illegal wars. :roll:
You may remember it is the other lot that get us into un-popular illegal wars. :roll:
I agree we should never have got involved in Iraq. But maybe you're forgetting gulf war one in 1990 when our Government of tories agreed to leave Saddam in power after decimating his military?
Mass unemployment, a stigmatised unemployed, government assault on public services, deeply unpopular right-wing government facing annihilation at the next election desperate for something to turn the opinion polls their way. We've been in this exact same situation before. Or perhaps you're too young to remember the early 80s.
Cameron won't start a war in the middle-east because he's too busy selling weapons to middle-eastern dictatorships, North Africa is a French problem, so he won't get his Maggie moment there. That leaves the Falklands. As for Argentina not being militarily prepared, they weren't in 1982 either but they still invaded. Today the Argentine president is desperate to hang on to power in a country with a crumbling economy and growing civil unrest, just like Galtieri in 1982.
Oh, one other thing, France has 59 nuclear reactors and exports electricity to neighbouring countries - including the UK - at great profit. Mali has large Uranium deposits...
I agree we should never have got involved in Iraq. But maybe you're forgetting gulf war one in 1990 when our Government of tories agreed to leave Saddam in power after decimating his military?
Mass unemployment, a stigmatised unemployed, government assault on public services, deeply unpopular right-wing government facing annihilation at the next election desperate for something to turn the opinion polls their way. We've been in this exact same situation before. Or perhaps you're too young to remember the early 80s.
Cameron won't start a war in the middle-east because he's too busy selling weapons to middle-eastern dictatorships, North Africa is a French problem, so he won't get his Maggie moment there. That leaves the Falklands. As for Argentina not being militarily prepared, they weren't in 1982 either but they still invaded. Today the Argentine president is desperate to hang on to power in a country with a crumbling economy and growing civil unrest, just like Galtieri in 1982.
We'll see.
CMD ain't gonna get a Maggie moment anywhere, certainly not the Falklands. We ain't got the kit to defend 'em, and we'll soon see our 'special relationship' fade if we ask for help elsewhere.
Mind you we've got a Vulcan still, could send that. But I think it'll run out of flying hours before it gets to Ascension Island.
We have little or no direct vested interest in the sahara or sub sahara appart from protecting any oil/gas installations that may be owned or partially so by british interests.
We do how ever need to keep a very close eye on the situation with regard to militant islamists although I think Nigeria might be a case closer to home.
I feel that the threat is no greater or lesser, what the west needs to do is wake up to the fact that there are extremists who see us as the devil incarnate and will do all they can to wipe us from the face of the earth.
… what the west needs to do is wake up to the fact that there are extremists who see us as the devil incarnate and will do all they can to wipe us from the face of the earth.
… and they will continue to see us that way while we continue to send them democracy via airstrike.
… and they will continue to see us that way while we continue to send them democracy via airstrike.
So if we stop bombing them they will suddenly see us as their mates ??, man you're naive.
So if we stop bombing them they will suddenly see us as their mates ??, man you're naive.
Was Islamic fundamentalism a problem that threatened the west before 1990? No. We've since had 23 years of dropping bombs on muslim innocents around the globe. Is it any wonder we're not on their Xmas card list? Bombing and killing only breeds more bombing and killing. Only when we learn to talk will the cycle of death stop.
Was Islamic fundamentalism a problem that threatened the west before 1990? No. We've since had 23 years of dropping bombs on muslim innocents around the globe. Is it any wonder we're not on their Xmas card list? Bombing and killing only breeds more bombing and killing. Only when we learn to talk will the cycle of death stop.
so called "Innocent Muslims" have been killing non muslims for years, its what they do!
so called "Innocent Muslims" have been killing non muslims for years, its what they do!
Tell that to the 176 (so far) children killed by American drones in Pakistan: http://www.juancole.com/2012/12/lets-also-remember-the-176-children-killed-by-us-drones.html
Interesting that this 'new' hotbed of terrorism that could take decades to sort out is getting more RAF aeryplanes sent to it, ones due to be retired in a couple of years :confused
Tell that to the 176 (so far) children killed by American drones in Pakistan: http://www.juancole.com/2012/12/lets-also-remember-the-176-children-killed-by-us-drones.html
What about the 440 British troops killed by Muslims then?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-10629358
Please! This is a friendly and informative forum. Let's not bicker and argue over who killed who!
Check out the history around The Crusades, for many a year various faiths lived side by side in relative harmony then the Christian and Islamic militants stormed over the horizon and that hatred has been politicised,demonised and generally used as an excuse for mayhem ever since.
Are we chasing oil or do we feel a need to kiss US butt...if not no.
macadamia
26-Jan-13, 09:26
By and large the West and "democracy" could do itself a huge favour by staying out of Muslim-controlled territories. It appears to be a fact of history that, left to their own devices, most Muslim civilisations will revert to the time honoured internal "debates" along tribal and sectarian lines which result in far greater human loss and harm than Western interventions can provide. The policy should be - wait until the shoot-out is finished, then go in and pick up the pieces.
What I don't understand is the object appears to be to chase the people we don't like out of the country. So when they go elseware what then? We already know they just move on to another territory where we don't want them so what is the point?
In fact, as we certainly don't want them here, why not leave them where we know they are?
In fact, as we certainly don't want them here, why not leave them where we know they are?Since when has common sense got in the way of political decision making! :confused
Once again the UK is trying to punch above its weight and way beyond its depleted capabilities for another PM that is looking towards his post Office lucrative 'Ambassadorships' and book deals. His plans for June 2015 I guess.
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