View Full Version : A message to the good people of Reay
ywindythesecond
11-Jan-13, 22:49
DONT LET THIS HAPPEN TO YOU!
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And how do you propose they prevent it?
I suspect that regardless of what objections have been raised and even if The Highland Council do oppose The Lime Kiln application that Holyrood will just over rule it as they have done consistently in the past.
By the way most residents of Reay can see Baillie!
ywindythesecond
12-Jan-13, 01:37
And how do you propose they prevent it?
The only way possible, get really stroppy with their elected representatives at all levels from Community Council up to Member of European Parliament. We are their bosses, not the other way about.
ywindythesecond
12-Jan-13, 01:50
I suspect that regardless of what objections have been raised and even if The Highland Council do oppose The Lime Kiln application that Holyrood will just over rule it as they have done consistently in the past.
By the way most residents of Reay can see Baillie!
Seeing Baillie from Reay is one thing. I drove up the road from Westerdale to Forss today and turned left to Lythmore and saw what is acceptable to the Scottish Government. Just because Holyrood overrules something does that make it acceptable? These people are our servants, not our masters and they need to be reminded of that, see previous post.
They care of the renewable energy targets end of.The precedent is set now for wind turbines in Caithness
And how do you propose they prevent it?
Vote No to independence and get rid of these clowns (SNP) at the first available opportunity.
Vote No to independence and get rid of these clowns (SNP) at the first available opportunity.
I am with you there ducati
That goes without saying as far as I am concerned
Any of you going along to this? http://www.scottishconstitutionalfutures.org/Events/ViewEvent/tabid/1712/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/268/Energy-Policy-and-Constitutional-Change.aspxIts a free event exploring energy issues and constitutional change. I'm sure that you all want to be as informed as possible because as you are all aware a No vote in the referendum WILL NOT change who is in government in Scotland. The next parliamentary elections are not until 2016.
Any of you going along to this? http://www.scottishconstitutionalfutures.org/Events/ViewEvent/tabid/1712/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/268/Energy-Policy-and-Constitutional-Change.aspxIts a free event exploring energy issues and constitutional change. I'm sure that you all want to be as informed as possible because as you are all aware a No vote in the referendum WILL NOT change who is in government in Scotland. The next parliamentary elections are not until 2016.
With a No vote you really think the SNP will survive to the next scheduled election? I seriously doubt it!
Well Ducati, your predictions have long been a bit ...... Off!
Fat eck could promise me a golden ingot and he would still receive the thumbs down from me
Thats fine mi16. There are lots of parties to vote for in 2016
I wouldn't have said there were "lots" of parties to vote for.
My question to the good people of Reay is 'what could we do with the ~£450,000 Community Benefit per year from the Forss, Baiilie and Limekiln wind farms?'
Well Ducati, your predictions have long been a bit ...... Off!
I'm not disagreeing, but which ones, just to remind me. :D
My question to the good people of Reay is 'what could we do with the ~£450,000 Community Benefit per year from the Forss, Baiilie and Limekiln wind farms?'They would not even contribute a few hundred pounds to a local nursery group for new equipment
They would not even contribute a few hundred pounds to a local nursery group for new equipment
I don't know about that, last I heard was that they couldn't give it away, no takers.
My question to the good people of Reay is 'what could we do with the ~£450,000 Community Benefit per year from the Forss, Baiilie and Limekiln wind farms?'
'They' might get a more positive response if they gave everyone in Reay free electricity for the life of the wind farm instead!
I don't know about that, last I heard was that they couldn't give it away, no takers.Well then you heard wrong Rheghead.
'They' might get a more positive response if they gave everyone in Reay free electricity for the life of the wind farm instead!Why should the residents of reay be given free electricity from two devopments that are nowhere near them?
ywindythesecond
12-Jan-13, 19:56
My question to the good people of Reay is 'what could we do with the ~£450,000 Community Benefit per year from the Forss, Baiilie and Limekiln wind farms?'
Buy the houses in the picture, (and all the other ones similarly affected) so the owners can go elsewhere and find a better new life. Their present new life is not something to look forward to.
The "community fund" could probably buy out two properties a year, so the lucky owners who will be able to move on sometime will have to draw lots for their place in the queue, and there will be no money left from the "community benefit" for any other purpose.
I would go for that plus £50 k in compo
Buy the houses in the picture, (and all the other ones similarly affected) so the owners can go elsewhere and find a better new life. Their present new life is not something to look forward to.
The "community fund" could probably buy out two properties a year, so the lucky owners who will be able to move on sometime will have to draw lots for their place in the queue, and there will be no money left from the "community benefit" for any other purpose.
I read research from estate agents showed that people are scared about a development in the build up to commissioning then quickly take the property off the market when they quickly realise that the negative propaganda from anti-wind extremists never materialised.
Answer 1 = These so called community benefits are a joke, I know of various groups which have asked for project funding and for equipment. (just a few hundred pound I may add)
With rejection, yet they shout on Moray firth radio there are no takers for this so called hundreds and thousands of pounds which are building up !!!!!!!!
Answer 2 = The limekiln wind farm is expected to produce £550k per year to the local economy, The people who live within a 3-4k radius who can see/hear these terrible eyesores should receive free electricity for the so called 25 year lifespan.
Thanks vdub (a worried resident)
TudorRose
12-Jan-13, 20:27
Buy the houses in the picture, (and all the other ones similarly affected) so the owners can go elsewhere and find a better new life. Their present new life is not something to look forward to.
The "community fund" could probably buy out two properties a year, so the lucky owners who will be able to move on sometime will have to draw lots for their place in the queue, and there will be no money left from the "community benefit" for any other purpose.
Talking about this as a family, we all agreed what a good idea this was. Hand on heart, who would really like to live as close to the turbines, as the houses in the photo, in this thread.
That way 'For the greater good' we all get the electricity needed and the families concerned will at least have the chance to have some quality of life.
Answer 1 = These so called community benefits are a joke, I know of various groups which have asked for project funding and for equipment. (just a few hundred pound I may add)
With rejection, yet they shout on Moray firth radio there are no takers for this so called hundreds and thousands of pounds which are building up !!!!!!!!
Answer 2 = The limekiln wind farm is expected to produce £550k per year to the local economy, The people who live within a 3-4k radius who can see/hear these terrible eyesores should receive free electricity for the so called 25 year lifespan.
Thanks vdub (a worried resident)
Well Halkirk has done okay, nice new store, floodlighting. Not that I think the developers are giving us anything-we are all paying for it in one form or another.
We are not discussing the causewaymire fund here though.The folk in charge of the baillie fund treat it like its their own personal cash and are unwilling to support local causes, even ones that their own offspring attended.
We are not discussing the causewaymire fund here though.The folk in charge of the baillie fund treat it like its their own personal cash and are unwilling to support local causes, even ones that their own offspring attended.
Baillie hasn't started, so is there any cash yet?
Incorrect once again Rheghead, you should research things before spouting off.
Baillie hasn't started, so is there any cash yet?
You really need to get out a bit and see whats happening-Baillie cant be far off from being done.
Incorrect once again Rheghead, you should research things before spouting off.
eh? I didn't spout off, I asked a question, asking a question suggests that I do not hold information, I asked if there was any cash from Baillie?
I am not aware of their cashflow, but they have a turbine spinning.
I am not aware of their cashflow, but they have a turbine spinning.
So it seems you do not know either if there is any cash, you are in the same place as me. So who is the one spouting off here?
These things generate more cash than kilowatts therefore I will stick my neck out and suggest they are making money.
Regardless of when money will be made available, local causes have been rejected flat. The one I know of was told it was not a worthy cause as not enough folk attended.
Don't forget all this cash floating around - community benefit, cheap electricity - has to come from somewhere. It comes from the renewables levy added to our bills. So it's our money you're talking about, taken without our consent. Then they wonder why so many are in fuel poverty.
These things generate more cash than kilowatts therefore I will stick my neck out and suggest they are making money.
Well you don't know that for sure. You've seen one turbine going round but you don't know if it is generating electricity or even connected. I do not know the procedure for comissioning a wind farm but I would say it is a pretty good bet that they haven't been paid for anything yet. There is usually a press statement when a wind farm generates for the first time.
Really, I know a few guys with turbines none of them released press statements.I doubt if they have turbines turning on zero load. Usually they are stopped when not in use.
Really, I know a few guys with turbines none of them released press statements.I doubt if they have turbines turning on zero load. Usually they are stopped when not in use.
:) A bit of difference between the newsworthyness of a 52MW wind farm and a farmer with a 15kw turbine.
Wind turbines do turn on zero load, I know that one for certain.
What's the difference?
You're just playing with me now.
ywindythesecond
13-Jan-13, 02:01
Well you don't know that for sure. You've seen one turbine going round but you don't know if it is generating electricity or even connected. I do not know the procedure for comissioning a wind farm but I would say it is a pretty good bet that they haven't been paid for anything yet. There is usually a press statement when a wind farm generates for the first time.
You are right Reggie, Baillie isnt producing yet but the good news is that it will be visible. It is part of the Balancing Mechanism operated by National Grid, and on the occasions which are becoming more frequent when windfarms are turned off because their electicity is either not needed or the grid can't cope with it but it is still paid for, we will all be able to see it, and know that we are paying for them standing still.
ywindythesecond
13-Jan-13, 12:44
It's certainly visible
Thanks mi16, I didn't put that very well! What I meant was that because of its visibility, we will be able to tell when Baillie is shut down in good wind conditions because there is no capacity on the grid or demand for its electricity, when it will be getting paid by us to do so .
You are right Reggie, Baillie isnt producing yet but the good news is that it will be visible. It is part of the Balancing Mechanism operated by National Grid, and on the occasions which are becoming more frequent when windfarms are turned off because their electicity is either not needed or the grid can't cope with it but it is still paid for, we will all be able to see it, and know that we are paying for them standing still.
And the connections to the grid are getting improved all the time meaning these occasions will not happen. And constraint payments are not restricted to wind farms, 90% of all payments are to conventional generation.
Your posts are totally without balance.
It's certainly visible
Visible doesn't mean visibly intrusive
ywindythesecond
13-Jan-13, 16:38
Visible doesn't mean visibly intrusive
Refer to post #1
Refer to post #1
And? What is your point? I thought you were on about Limekiln where probably just Borlum is with 2km from turbines.
Visible doesn't mean visibly intrusiveThat surely depends on where you are viewing from.I guess large cheques for developers and landowners will help make the visual impact more palletable.
That surely depends on where you are viewing from.I guess large cheques for developers and landowners will help make the visual impact more palletable.
May be, but I've also seen studies claim that the people that are most in favor of wind farms are those that live closest to them
May be, but I've also seen studies claim that the people that are most in favor of wind farms are those that live closest to them
Ask the residents of Westerdale and see what they say.
Ask the residents of Westerdale and see what they say.
I had better opinion sampling techniques in mind than knocking on doors. People just tend to agree just to get rid of the person on the doorstep.
For goodness sake, having seen Baillie and the impact that it has made on the landscape for miles around, knowing folk who put alot of money into fighting it,hearing what I think might be more than rumours about backhanders and the fact that the research I have done so far seems to indicate that alot is promised to local communities but little is forthcoming.
ywindythesecond
14-Jan-13, 03:17
I had better opinion sampling techniques in mind than knocking on doors. People just tend to agree just to get rid of the person on the doorstep.
Put that to the test Reggy, I'll come with you and say nothing.
Give them a question they have to think about.
You knock the door and say "Good evening, now you have seen it, could you please let me know if you are in favour of the Baillie Windfarm, or not in favour of the Baillie Windfarm".
I will record the results.
How about it? I am free most weekends?
Mystical Potato Head
14-Jan-13, 07:45
May be, but I've also seen studies claim that the people that are most in favor of wind farms are those that live closest to them
You come up with "i've seen" this or that to suit your side of the argument regularly now so could you please give me proven facts that back up your statement that those who live closest to wind farms
are most in favour.Ywindy has offered to go round with you and you can word the questions to make it sound as attractive as you wish and then publish your results.
In the case of Ballie that statement is in some way correct, mainly due to the fact that some the people immediately adjacent to the turbines are lifting multiples of thousands of pounds for each turbine on their land each year.
I would be willing to wager that an overwhelming majority of other people in the district. that have no financial interest in wind power are totally against the development.
In the case of Ballie that statement is in some way correct, mainly due to the fact that some the people immediately adjacent to the turbines are lifting multiples of thousands of pounds for each turbine on their land each year.
I would be willing to wager that an overwhelming majority of other people in the district. that have no financial interest in wind power are totally against the development.
I would agree totally with that.
I would be willing to wager that an overwhelming majority of other people in the district. that have no financial interest in wind power are totally against the development.
It seems jealousy may be the motivation for their opposition?
Put that to the test Reggy, I'll come with you and say nothing.
Give them a question they have to think about.
You knock the door and say "Good evening, now you have seen it, could you please let me know if you are in favour of the Baillie Windfarm, or not in favour of the Baillie Windfarm".
I will record the results.
How about it? I am free most weekends?
I refer you to post #53
You come up with "i've seen" this or that to suit your side of the argument regularly now so could you please give me proven facts that back up your statement that those who live closest to wind farms
are most in favour.Ywindy has offered to go round with you and you can word the questions to make it sound as attractive as you wish and then publish your results.
Like when I proposed to someone who claimed that Causeymire was littered with dead birds with a walkaround to count up how many were there?
Again I refer you to post #53
Like when I proposed to someone who claimed that Causeymire was littered with dead birds with a walkaround to count up how many were there?
Again I refer you to post #53
You state in post 53 that folk will agree with the surveyor to remove them from the doorstep, however if you word the question in such a way that your personal opinion is not portrayed the problem will be negated i.e. "Good evening Sir/Madam do you think that the adjacent wind farm is a good or a bad thing for the district?"
Survey 200 people with no financial ties to wind power and then you will have a decent survey.
alot is promised to local communities but little is forthcoming.
For pity's sake, give them a chance, it hasn't even started up yet! :lol:
You state in post 53 that folk will agree with the surveyor to remove them from the doorstep, however if you word the question in such a way that your personal opinion is not portrayed the problem will be negated i.e. "Good evening Sir/Madam do you think that the adjacent wind farm is a good or a bad thing for the district?"
Survey 200 people with no financial ties to wind power and then you will have a decent survey.
For goodness sake, I'm not a canvasser, never been one or want to be. It is ywindy's idea, let him do it. I'll trust what he comes up with.
However I would be interested from the good people of Westerdale of their thoughts of the local wind farm opposition group if they knew that the Chairman of Caithness Windfarm Information said this about Causewaymire,
"What exactly makes the Causeymire an ideal location to select for a windfarm?
For
It is built on already degraded land through peat extraction.
It is right next to the grid.
It is in a landscape which can handle it.
It provides power to Caithness when it is working thus saving power having to be imported from Beauly.
It produces power at the point of demand.
It does not physically dominate communities.
It is on low-lying land relative to the surrounding area.
It does not generally detract from the skyline views.
It provides part of the generation mix which is required for a balanced energy supply.
But
It stops when the wind stops. No point building more in Caithness to make up for it as they will stop as well. And there is intrusion in the lives of those who live near to it.
So not totally ideal, but try using these points when you look at the rest of the proposals for caithness.
ywy2"
However I would be interested from the good people of Westerdale of their thoughts of the local wind farm opposition group if they knew that the Chairman of Caithness Windfarm Information said this about Causewaymire,
"What exactly makes the Causeymire an ideal location to select for a windfarm?
For
It is built on already degraded land through peat extraction.
It is right next to the grid.
It is in a landscape which can handle it.
It provides power to Caithness when it is working thus saving power having to be imported from Beauly.
It produces power at the point of demand.
It does not physically dominate communities.
It is on low-lying land relative to the surrounding area.
It does not generally detract from the skyline views.
It provides part of the generation mix which is required for a balanced energy supply.
But
It stops when the wind stops. No point building more in Caithness to make up for it as they will stop as well. And there is intrusion in the lives of those who live near to it.
So not totally ideal, but try using these points when you look at the rest of the proposals for caithness.
ywy2"
It's a fair distance from the peat extraction as anyone can see when they pass, and as for low lying?-the whole of Caithness is pretty much low lying.
ywindythesecond
14-Jan-13, 21:38
However I would be interested from the good people of Westerdale of their thoughts of the local wind farm opposition group if they knew that the Chairman of Caithness Windfarm Information said this about Causewaymire,
"What exactly makes the Causeymire an ideal location to select for a windfarm?"
Can't remember the exact context Reggy but thanks for reminding me of it.
It is a very good checklist. Lets see how Baillie stands up.
For
It is built on already degraded land through peat extraction. Baillie is built on arable land.
It is right next to the grid. Baillie cannot be accomodated without a grid upgrade at public expense.
It is in a landscape which can handle it. Baillie is in a highly visible and visually intrusive location.
It provides power to Caithness when it is working thus saving power having to be imported from Beauly. Baillie will provide more power than Caithness needs and will frequently have to be shut down at the expense of the consumer because it is surplus to requirements.
It produces power at the point of demand. Baillie does not produce power at the point of demand. Caithness's demand is more than satisfied by the pre-existing wind developments (when the wind blows).
It does not physically dominate communities. Baillie physically dominates communities.
It is on low-lying land relative to the surrounding area. Baillie is on high land relative to the surrounding area.
It does not generally detract from the skyline views. Baillie most certainly detracts from skyline views.
It provides part of the generation mix which is required for a balanced energy supply. Baillie adds unwanted generation to the mix which contributes to an imbalanced system.
But
It stops when the wind stops. No point building more in Caithness to make up for it as they will stop as well. And there is intrusion in the lives of those who live near to it. Same for Baillie.
I would be grateful Reggy if you would provide the context for the opening sentence "What makes the Causeymire an ideal location to select for a windfarm?" I am not sure I have ever said it was an "ideal" location but I certainly have defended it as above, but that was when windfarms in Caithness were just a threat that surely could never succeed.
Anyway, please have a look in your files. It will be in one called something like "Utterances to be saved to trip Stuart Young up with at some time in the future"
.
But how would the good folk of Westerdale react on our door to door trip if they found out it isn't the one asking the questions but the silent one in the shadows who was more in favor of Causeymire mire wind farm?
Can't remember the exact context Reggy but thanks for reminding me of it.
It is a very good checklist. Lets see how Baillie stands up.
For
It is built on already degraded land through peat extraction. Baillie is built on arable land.
It is right next to the grid. Baillie cannot be accomodated without a grid upgrade at public expense.
It is in a landscape which can handle it. Baillie is in a highly visible and visually intrusive location.
It provides power to Caithness when it is working thus saving power having to be imported from Beauly. Baillie will provide more power than Caithness needs and will frequently have to be shut down at the expense of the consumer because it is surplus to requirements.
It produces power at the point of demand. Baillie does not produce power at the point of demand. Caithness's demand is more than satisfied by the pre-existing wind developments (when the wind blows).
It does not physically dominate communities. Baillie physically dominates communities.
It is on low-lying land relative to the surrounding area. Baillie is on high land relative to the surrounding area.
It does not generally detract from the skyline views. Baillie most certainly detracts from skyline views.
It provides part of the generation mix which is required for a balanced energy supply. Baillie adds unwanted generation to the mix which contributes to an imbalanced system.
But
It stops when the wind stops. No point building more in Caithness to make up for it as they will stop as well. And there is intrusion in the lives of those who live near to it. Same for Baillie.
I would be grateful Reggy if you would provide the context for the opening sentence "What makes the Causeymire an ideal location to select for a windfarm?" I am not sure I have ever said it was an "ideal" location but I certainly have defended it as above, but that was when windfarms in Caithness were just a threat that surely could never succeed.
Anyway, please have a look in your files. It will be in one called something like "Utterances to be saved to trip Stuart Young up with at some time in the future"
.
Well you campaigned against the Shebster wind farm and that did tick most of your boxes but you knew that it was impossible to keep 2 wind farms out of that area and so you let Baillie in by opposing both!
But how would the good folk of Westerdale react on our door to door trip if they found out it isn't the one asking the questions but the silent one in the shadows who was more in favor of Causeymire mire wind farm?
The good people of Westerdale were never given the chance to answer any questions in relation to the Causeymire windfarm because none were ever asked.
ywindythesecond
14-Jan-13, 22:44
Well you campaigned against the Shebster wind farm and that did tick most of your boxes but you knew that it was impossible to keep 2 wind farms out of that area and so you let Baillie in by opposing both!
Bollocks! Did Bilbster stop Achairn?
Did Bilbster and Achairn stop, Camster? Did Bilbster and Achairn and Camster stop Wathegar 1?
Did Bilbster and Achairn and Camster and Wathegar 1 stop Wathegar 2?
Will Bilbster and Achairn and Camster and Wathegar 1 and Wathegar 2 stop Cogle Moss?
Probably not, one windfarm breeds another.
BUT Sheer hard work and determination by a small number of very hard working people stopped Spittal though. That is what is needed in Reay.
Bollocks! Did Bilbster stop Achairn?
Did Bilbster and Achairn stop, Camster? Did Bilbster and Achairn and Camster stop Wathegar 1?
Did Bilbster and Achairn and Camster and Wathegar 1 stop Wathegar 2?
Will Bilbster and Achairn and Camster and Wathegar 1 and Wathegar 2 stop Cogle Moss?
Probably not, one windfarm breeds another.
BUT Sheer hard work and determination by a small number of very hard working people stopped Spittal though. That is what is needed in Reay.
Oh come on, a bit of perspective and context please and stop comparing apples with pears! Camster etc were backed by the council, a perfect place for a wind farm they said. The Achairn and Bilbster individually didn't make double figures and were grouped together like a larger wind farm anyway.
Baillie and Shebster were BOTH opposed by the council and both went to an inquiry and/or appeal but you let Baillie have a clear run at the inquiry with no other wind farm in that area.
Rheghead can you or any one else give me concrete evidence of any benefits paid over to local community services as a direct result of wind farms being granted planning permission?
By the way I know of persons who spent £5,000 fighting Baillie and who now find their lives and properties blighted.
ywindythesecond
15-Jan-13, 02:25
Oh come on, a bit of perspective and context please and stop comparing apples with pears! Camster etc were backed by the council, a perfect place for a wind farm they said. The Achairn and Bilbster individually didn't make double figures and were grouped together like a larger wind farm anyway.
Baillie and Shebster were BOTH opposed by the council and both went to an inquiry and/or appeal but you let Baillie have a clear run at the inquiry with no other wind farm in that area.
You seem to be suggesting, at least as far as Shebster and Baillie are concerned, that there is some sort of plan in place that allocates a windfarm allowance to an area and after that it will be left alone. You seem also to be in denial about the proliferation of Bilbster et al.
There is no plan in place apart from this Scottish Government's lunatic obsession with wind power which arises from a belief that wind is as reliable (and as profitable) as gas!
ywindythesecond
15-Jan-13, 02:33
But how would the good folk of Westerdale react on our door to door trip if they found out it isn't the one asking the questions but the silent one in the shadows who was more in favor of Causeymire mire wind farm?
Great news! Reggy and I are going door to door!
Did you find anything in your files about this?
"I would be grateful Reggy if you would provide the context for the opening sentence "What makes the Causeymire an ideal location to select for a windfarm?" ................Anyway, please have a look in your files. It will be in one called something like "Utterances to be saved to trip Stuart Young up with at some time in the future"
just google it, not doing your dirty work
Rheghead can you or any one else give me concrete evidence of any benefits paid over to local community services as a direct result of wind farms being granted planning permission?
By the way I know of persons who spent £5,000 fighting Baillie and who now find their lives and properties blighted.
It isn't for me to give you evidence as nobody chooses to believe me as per their own bias, you need to look for yourself, ask down at the Reay Hall, they have already received several thousands from Forss and that is just a small wind farm.
You seem to be suggesting, at least as far as Shebster and Baillie are concerned, that there is some sort of plan in place that allocates a windfarm allowance to an area and after that it will be left alone. You seem also to be in denial about the proliferation of Bilbster et al.
There is no plan in place apart from this Scottish Government's lunatic obsession with wind power which arises from a belief that wind is as reliable (and as profitable) as gas!
There is an overall plan, and you know what it is.
If i knew that one wind farm was going to the Shebster area then I think you knew it too. In fact I remember telling you so if you didn't already know. Certainly the developers knew it .
there is no windfarm in the Shebster area!!
neilsermk1
15-Jan-13, 13:59
Answer 1 = These so called community benefits are a joke, I know of various groups which have asked for project funding and for equipment. (just a few hundred pound I may add)
With rejection, yet they shout on Moray firth radio there are no takers for this so called hundreds and thousands of pounds which are building up !!!!!!!!
Answer 2 = The limekiln wind farm is expected to produce £550k per year to the local economy, The people who live within a 3-4k radius who can see/hear these terrible eyesores should receive free electricity for the so called 25 year lifespan.
Thanks vdub (a worried resident)
Will they produce enough energy to supply the needs
De[ends what needs you are talking of?
The county? I would have thought so.
The country? I doubt it
ywindythesecond
21-Jan-13, 09:56
And the connections to the grid are getting improved all the time meaning these occasions will not happen. And constraint payments are not restricted to wind farms, 90% of all payments are to conventional generation.
Your posts are totally without balance.
The argument advanced by the wind industry and Government that constraint payments to wind generators is no different to payments made by National Grid (NG) to conventional generators for grid balancing purposes is a false one.
This is an extract from an excellent critique of the Scottish Governments "Routemap Update" http://www.communitiesagainstturbinesscotland.com/?wpfb_dl=48
“Connect and Manage” is the name given to a regime which has no place in an engineered transmission system. Essentially, windfarms were allowed to proceed before the transmission capability was in place. The inevitable “management” comprises making payment to windfarms to shut down when demand is low and wind output is high, thus threatening grid stability. In spite of the Scotland/England cross-border transmission capacity having recently been upgraded as part of the £7 billion investment referred to above, during the period 9th to 14th November 2012 alone just under £750,000 was paid to Scottish windfarms to shut down because there was no capacity on the grid for their output. In excess of £30 million has been paid to constrain off wind generators to date. http://www.ref.org.uk/constraints/index.php http://www.ref.org.uk/press-releases/249-ref-calls-for-transparency-over-secret-wind-power-constraint-payments
It will be at least three years before the proposed east and west coast subsea cables will be operational and that will only add 3.2GW export capacity which by that time will, in all likelihood, be swallowed up with output from newly constructed windfarms. We can only look forward to wind energy constraint events increasing in frequency, magnitude and cost.
The argument advanced by the wind industry and Government that constraint payments to wind generators is no different to payments made by National Grid (NG) to conventional generators for grid balancing purposes is a false one. NG has arrangements with multiple generators (the Balancing Mechanism) whereby it can call for more or less electricity production to balance the supply of electricity with fluctuating demand. Wind generated electricity cannot be called for on demand. There is no such control possible. The only control mechanism available with wind energy is to turn it off.
When demand is low and wind output is rising, NG will constrain off conventional generators to allow space for the wind generated electricity. It does this for two reasons: a) conventional generation is cheaper to constrain off than wind generation, and b) NG must take renewable generation when it is available.
If the wind keeps rising, NG gets to a point when it has no more conventional generation available to be constrained off. The correct engineering solution to a threat to grid stability is to switch off that part of the system where the problem lies, but that means disconnecting the customers in that area.
Disconnecting customers is not desirable, either in practice or politically, therefore the grid operator must constrain off the surplus wind energy to maintain services. In this situation the wind generator is in a strong bargaining position and can command inflated prices to shut down. Conventional generators participating in the Balancing Mechanism are compensated at levels which equate to actual losses.
Constraining off wind generation is not an act of balancing the grid. It is an emergency intervention to prevent the grid being destabilised by having unwanted electricity being poured into it. It is ironic, to say the least, that the very source of the threat to grid stability can profit in such a manner.
Essentially, windfarms were allowed to proceed before the transmission capability was in place.
Let me get this right. You were right at the heart of the campaign to stop the Beauly to Denny upgrade on the pretext that if you can stop the upgrade and the ability to bring the power south then you can stop the wind farms?
And now you are complaining about the negative consequences of the delays that you, yourself, put in the planning process? :confused
It seems to me that not only your actions are putting bigger wind farms in the landscape but you are right at the heart of why our electricity bills are higher. If the upgrade was allowed to go through sooner then constraint payments would be a lot lower.
The people at Caithness Wind Farm Information Forum should hang their heads in shame.
weezer 316
21-Jan-13, 18:21
I hope they build more, I really do. ywindy is like some sort of windpower tea party-esque domestic terrorist they way he goes on about this. its so unbelievably short sighted its untrue.
So long as there are £100's of millions available in profits to take away, funded by the user through inflated tariffs then fear not they will continue to rise out of our landscape.
Drat, Rheg owld mate, tried to good rep you on this one, but canna, so have to do ot this way.
Let me get this right. You were right at the heart of the campaign to stop the Beauly to Denny upgrade on the pretext that if you can stop the upgrade and the ability to bring the power south then you can stop the wind farms?
And now you are complaining about the negative consequences of the delays that you, yourself, put in the planning process? :confused
It seems to me that not only your actions are putting bigger wind farms in the landscape but you are right at the heart of why our electricity bills are higher. If the upgrade was allowed to go through sooner then constraint payments would be a lot lower.
The people at Caithness Wind Farm Information Forum should hang their heads in shame.
ywindythesecond
21-Jan-13, 21:13
Let me get this right. You were right at the heart of the campaign to stop the Beauly to Denny upgrade on the pretext that if you can stop the upgrade and the ability to bring the power south then you can stop the wind farms?
And now you are complaining about the negative consequences of the delays that you, yourself, put in the planning process? :confused
It seems to me that not only your actions are putting bigger wind farms in the landscape but you are right at the heart of why our electricity bills are higher. If the upgrade was allowed to go through sooner then constraint payments would be a lot lower.
The people at Caithness Wind Farm Information Forum should hang their heads in shame.
You flatter me Reggy, I was never at the "heart of the campaign" to stop Beauly/Denny. I could not understand how there was so much opposition to the pylons when the people opposing it did not manage to make the link between lots of windfarms and the need for the pylons. I did give evidence to two sessions of the inquiry on the basis of their pylon visualisations were no more honest than the run-of-the-mill developer's visualisations. That made me lots of friends in Scottish and Southern Energy I can tell you!
The B/D inquiry was a farce anyway. You could tell from the way it had been conducted that the reporters had been given the answer with their appointments.
In any case, Constraint payments relative to Beauly Denny are confined to wind energy going from the Highlands to Central Scotland. Constraint payments to North windfarms are due to big windfarms being built before the Dounreay transmission was restrung. How clever was that? The big issue however is that even though it has been upgraded, the Scotland/England cross border system is still under sized. Most of the constraint payments to Highland windfarms are because of the Scotland England connection. AND only recently SSE announced that the two proposed subsea links to England were to be postponed until at least 2018.
So, logically, no more windfarms will be built in Scotland until the means of transporting their output is at least imminent?
Don't bet on it!
The B/D inquiry was a farce anyway. You could tell from the way it had been conducted that the reporters had been given the answer with their appointments.
The futility and inevitability of it all seems to be a recurring theme, perhaps we need to create a new narrative with Scottish ministers and wind companies, one of cooperation, one of helpful criticism, one which gets the best deal for customers and local residents. I'm convinced that if we were more on-message about the benefits of renewable energy rather than over stating the negatives then wind power would be cheaper as well as much better placed to contribute to local communities as ultimately they need our support for planning permission.
Perhaps the good people of Reay should create an action group in favor of Limekiln? We need a catchy name, though. Friends of Limekiln (FoLK)?
ywindythesecond
21-Jan-13, 22:36
The futility and inevitability of it all seems to be a recurring theme, perhaps we need to create a new narrative with Scottish ministers and wind companies, one of cooperation, one of helpful criticism, one which gets the best deal for customers and local residents. I'm convinced that if we were more on-message about the benefits of renewable energy rather than over stating the negatives then wind power would be cheaper as well as much better placed to contribute to local communities as ultimately they need our support for planning permission.
And the benefits are?
And the benefits are?
Less pollution.
Reduced carbon dioxide that contribute to climate change that threatens our global ecosystem, flora and fauna.
Community benefit which will fund local projects.
Employment within the local area.
It is sustainable, it provides a limitless source of electricity.
Less dependence on foreign fuels
Cheaper electricity
Helps grid balancing, can be shut off immediately in times of problems with grid infrastructure, not easy done with conventional sources.
Helps to maintain supplies in remote areas by having embedded sources.
Easily predicted by weather reports thus enabling efficient supplies to grid
Local projects bring wealth into the local area and it stays there.
Wind energy is reliable, it will not suffer an immediate outage like large generators frequently suffer.
In excess of £30 million has been paid to constrain off wind generators to date.
I seem to remember that the new fence (with gun emplacements) around Dounreay cost around that amount.
It would be absurd to protect a wind farm from terrorist attack...
ywindythesecond
22-Jan-13, 00:09
Less pollution.
Reduced carbon dioxide that contribute to climate change that threatens our global ecosystem, flora and fauna.
Community benefit which will fund local projects.
Employment within the local area.
It is sustainable, it provides a limitless source of electricity.
Less dependence on foreign fuels
Cheaper electricity
Helps grid balancing, can be shut off immediately in times of problems with grid infrastructure, not easy done with conventional sources.
Helps to maintain supplies in remote areas by having embedded sources.
Easily predicted by weather reports thus enabling efficient supplies to grid
Local projects bring wealth into the local area and it stays there.
Wind energy is reliable, it will not suffer an immediate outage like large generators frequently suffer.
Less pollution.
Probably give you that one.
Reduced carbon dioxide that contribute to climate change that threatens our global ecosystem, flora and fauna.
Neither the Scottish Government, the Westminster Government, nor the European Parliament can produce figures to support reduction in carbon dioxide this in spite of it being the driver of the renewables madness.
Community benefit which will fund local projects.
But only at the expense of a small number of severely affected residents and a vast number of electricity consumers. I pointed out earlier that the entire 20 year community benefit at Baillie should be used to compensate the affected local residents if it was a genuinely philanthropical gesture rather than a bribe.
Employment within the local area.
Very few local jobs are involved. RJ MacLeod at Baillie and Morrison at Camster are both from outwith the area. Does anyone know how many locals are on site?
It is sustainable, it provides a limitless source of electricity.
The power source is indeed limitless. The harnessing of that source is only sustained by artificial support through people’s electricity bills and that is not sustainable.
Less dependence on foreign fuels
Not sure about that. http://www.dieterhelm.co.uk/sites/default/files/IPPR150113.pdf See page 10
Cheaper electricity.
Absolute bollocks, apart from large scale hydro which is not subsidised. Fossil base cost about 5p a unit, onshore wind about 10p a unit, offshore wind probably 20p and wave and tidal even more. How can you justify saying renewables are cheaper?
Helps grid balancing, can be shut off immediately in times of problems with grid infrastructure, not easy done with conventional sources.
Very true but the problems with grid infrastructure only arise because there is already a surplus of uncontrollable (other than switch it off) wind power connected to it. It is bit like a protection racket. In fact it is a protection racket. “Pay me to stop and I’ll not cut off your customers.”
Helps to maintain supplies in remote areas by having embedded sources.
How?
Easily predicted by weather reports thus enabling efficient supplies to grid
How good is this prediction?
http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/800/windgraph21jan12.jpg
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
Local projects bring wealth into the local area and it stays there.
Give me some examples.
Wind energy is reliable, it will not suffer an immediate outage like large generators frequently suffer.
Wind energy is the only major energy source we have which is frequently effectively totally absent. That is why we must have the ability to provide the electricity we need from reliable sources and these have to be paid for while we buy very expensive renewable energy to satisfy political lunacy.
Less pollution.
Probably give you that one.
Reduced carbon dioxide that contribute to climate change that threatens our global ecosystem, flora and fauna.
Neither the Scottish Government, the Westminster Government, nor the European Parliament can produce figures to support reduction in carbon dioxide this in spite of it being the driver of the renewables madness.Probably the whole raison detre of renewables, replacing low carbon energy sources needs no explanation. No brainer unless you are a 5 yr old
Community benefit which will fund local projects.
But only at the expense of a small number of severely affected residents and a vast number of electricity consumers. I pointed out earlier that the entire 20 year community benefit at Baillie should be used to compensate the affected local residents if it was a genuinely philanthropical gesture rather than a bribe.Community benefit already going to local good causes although I disagree with what their priorities are, a bit like a new lotto winner buying summat mundane as their first purchase.
Employment within the local area.
Very few local jobs are involved. RJ MacLeod at Baillie and Morrison at Camster are both from outwith the area. Does anyone know how many locals are on site? Lots are employed from within the local area both on build and operations. More wind will bring larger and more permanent residencies.
It is sustainable, it provides a limitless source of electricity.
The power source is indeed limitless. The harnessing of that source is only sustained by artificial support through people’s electricity bills and that is not sustainable.Again do not know what you mean here, onshore wind competitive with conventional and will get cheaper
Less dependence on foreign fuels
Not sure about that. http://www.dieterhelm.co.uk/sites/de...IPPR150113.pdf See page 10 Again, I'm not convinced, harps back to the defunct needing conventional to run alongside argument
Cheaper electricity.
Absolute bollocks, apart from large scale hydro which is not subsidised. Fossil base cost about 5p a unit, onshore wind about 10p a unit, offshore wind probably 20p and wave and tidal even more. How can you justify saying renewables are cheaper? Again, see above.
Helps grid balancing, can be shut off immediately in times of problems with grid infrastructure, not easy done with conventional sources.
Very true but the problems with grid infrastructure only arise because there is already a surplus of uncontrollable (other than switch it off) wind power connected to it. It is bit like a protection racket. In fact it is a protection racket. “Pay me to stop and I’ll not cut off your customers.”I'm glad you agree, we need renewables so it isn't a racket, it is a necessity.
Helps to maintain supplies in remote areas by having embedded sources.
How? Self explanatory really when you think about it.
Easily predicted by weather reports thus enabling efficient supplies to grid
How good is this prediction?
http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/8...aph21jan12.jpg
Uploaded with ImageShack.us Predictions getting better all the time, quoting an exception is like using the godwin rule
Local projects bring wealth into the local area and it stays there.
Give me some examples. Ah, you got me with that one, you've objected to all the local ones and it is only the big corperations that have the legal clout to get their developments through despite the loud opposition.
Wind energy is reliable, it will not suffer an immediate outage like large generators frequently suffer.
Wind energy is the only major energy source we have which is frequently effectively totally absent. That is why we must have the ability to provide the electricity we need from reliable sources and these have to be paid for while we buy very expensive renewable energy to satisfy political lunacy. Wind only appears to have so much variability due to the geographical emphasis in the north of the UK. The point remains that a single outage from a turbine will not need any remedial action from the balancing boys down at the NG
PEOPLE
in and around Reay are being encouraged to object to a large scale wind farm development proposed for land to the south of the village. Infenergy wants to put up 24 turbines on land at Limekin, currently used as a commercial woodland plantation. The planning application for the 72 megawatt venture was submitted to the Scottish Government last December. Some residents fear the hulking turbines and their close proximity to houses will overwhelm the area.
Lets join the objection list,letters,emails and put a stop to more eyesores around our county. !!!!!
Worried Reay !!!
It is over 2 km from any housing.
Green_not_greed
02-Feb-13, 16:07
The Environmental statement says: "The proposed site is approx 1.5km south of Reay".
The Environmental statement says: "The proposed site is approx 1.5km south of Reay".
Yes, the site boundary, but the nearest turbines are over 2km away.
MerlinScot
02-Feb-13, 17:58
I know a few people there, they're collecting signatures all over the village. If someone is interested in saying their opinion / objection to the Limekiln farm I guess you can object on the web too.
Not that it will be useful, I doubt Scottish parliament will change its mind. And to be honest, I don't think the independence debate 'yes or no' will change the project in Reay.
Baillie Farm is awful, especially from the Westfield side. They didn't stop building it despite the ongoing protests.
Let's face it, they want to use Caithness as a windfarm and we've no say in the matter.
Let's face it, they want to use Caithness as a windfarm and we've no say in the matter.
Agreed, there's no point in objecting really. Waste of effort.
Less pollution.
Probably give you that one.
Reduced carbon dioxide that contribute to climate change that threatens our global ecosystem, flora and fauna.
Neither the Scottish Government, the Westminster Government, nor the European Parliament can produce figures to support reduction in carbon dioxide this in spite of it being the driver of the renewables madness.Probably the whole raison detre of renewables, replacing low carbon energy sources needs no explanation. No brainer unless you are a 5 yr old
Community benefit which will fund local projects.
But only at the expense of a small number of severely affected residents and a vast number of electricity consumers. I pointed out earlier that the entire 20 year community benefit at Baillie should be used to compensate the affected local residents if it was a genuinely philanthropical gesture rather than a bribe.Community benefit already going to local good causes although I disagree with what their priorities are, a bit like a new lotto winner buying summat mundane as their first purchase.
Employment within the local area.
Very few local jobs are involved. RJ MacLeod at Baillie and Morrison at Camster are both from outwith the area. Does anyone know how many locals are on site? Lots are employed from within the local area both on build and operations. More wind will bring larger and more permanent residencies.
It is sustainable, it provides a limitless source of electricity.
The power source is indeed limitless. The harnessing of that source is only sustained by artificial support through people’s electricity bills and that is not sustainable.Again do not know what you mean here, onshore wind competitive with conventional and will get cheaper
Less dependence on foreign fuels
Not sure about that. http://www.dieterhelm.co.uk/sites/de...IPPR150113.pdf See page 10 Again, I'm not convinced, harps back to the defunct needing conventional to run alongside argument
Cheaper electricity.
Absolute bollocks, apart from large scale hydro which is not subsidised. Fossil base cost about 5p a unit, onshore wind about 10p a unit, offshore wind probably 20p and wave and tidal even more. How can you justify saying renewables are cheaper? Again, see above.
Helps grid balancing, can be shut off immediately in times of problems with grid infrastructure, not easy done with conventional sources.
Very true but the problems with grid infrastructure only arise because there is already a surplus of uncontrollable (other than switch it off) wind power connected to it. It is bit like a protection racket. In fact it is a protection racket. “Pay me to stop and I’ll not cut off your customers.”I'm glad you agree, we need renewables so it isn't a racket, it is a necessity.
Helps to maintain supplies in remote areas by having embedded sources.
How? Self explanatory really when you think about it.
Easily predicted by weather reports thus enabling efficient supplies to grid
How good is this prediction?
http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/8...aph21jan12.jpg
Uploaded with ImageShack.us Predictions getting better all the time, quoting an exception is like using the godwin rule
Local projects bring wealth into the local area and it stays there.
Give me some examples. Ah, you got me with that one, you've objected to all the local ones and it is only the big corperations that have the legal clout to get their developments through despite the loud opposition.
Wind energy is reliable, it will not suffer an immediate outage like large generators frequently suffer.
Wind energy is the only major energy source we have which is frequently effectively totally absent. That is why we must have the ability to provide the electricity we need from reliable sources and these have to be paid for while we buy very expensive renewable energy to satisfy political lunacy. Wind only appears to have so much variability due to the geographical emphasis in the north of the UK. The point remains that a single outage from a turbine will not need any remedial action from the balancing boys down at the NG
So no real answers there then!!!
So no real answers there then!!!
It is easy to say that with a one line retort with no content in itself.
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