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Anyone know anything about this?
quote;
The government's proposal to introduce road pricing will mean you having to purchase a tracking device for your car and paying a monthly bill to use it. The tracking device will cost about £200 and in a recent study by the BBC, the lowest monthly bill was £28 for a rural florist and £194 for a delivery driver. A non working Mum who used the car to take the kids to school paid £86 in one month. On top of this massive increase in tax, you will be tracked. Somebody will know where you are at all times. They will also know how fast you have been going, so even if you accidentally creep over a speed limit in time you can probably expect a Notice of Intended Prosecution with your monthly bill.
Anyone know anything about this?
quote;
The government's proposal to introduce road pricing will mean you having to purchase a tracking device for your car and paying a monthly bill to use it. The tracking device will cost about £200 and in a recent study by the BBC, the lowest monthly bill was £28 for a rural florist and £194 for a delivery driver. A non working Mum who used the car to take the kids to school paid £86 in one month. On top of this massive increase in tax, you will be tracked. Somebody will know where you are at all times. They will also know how fast you have been going, so even if you accidentally creep over a speed limit in time you can probably expect a Notice of Intended Prosecution with your monthly bill.
Yes I knew about it, been trying to warn people what's happening for years.
http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?p=25065&highlight=tracking#post25065
Nobody listens, the government just keeps telling everyone how free they are and people just keep on believing them.
good thing they haven't thought of introducing an air tax for breathing and going up depending on how many animals you have using it up, or a food tax....
....but then again VAT, I suppose takes care of one of those :(
Click on this & sign if you haven't already done so http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/traveltax/ & pass it on to all your motoring friends.
Say NO to the Travel Tax...!!
The Pepsi Challenge
22-Dec-06, 02:59
Is it 1984 yet? Welcome to Nazi Britain y'all.
danc1ngwitch
22-Dec-06, 11:03
may aswell get rid o ma car now as if i leave it any longer no one will buy it ..:roll:
The quote has no link but I believe it to be related to an experiment carried out by the 6 o' clock news on the BBC last month about the impact on motorists of the proposal by the government to introduce a pay as you drive scheme. It is, at the moment, just that - a proposal.
The BBC fitted four volunteers vehicles (as per OP quote) with a sat tracking device to see how much they would pay over their normal road tax. Part of the experiment was to show the volunteers that by changing their driving habits they could reduce the costs of the PAYD scheme. For example one woman used her car to drive her kids to the school which was nearby. After the experiment was up she decided the 'test' cost was too much so put them on the school bus.
Link to BBC article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6158060.stm)
Mixed response to road charge test (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6160174.stm)
I think that this scheme will not be introduced for a few years as there will be huge resistance to it.
As for tracking your every move? You got a mobile phone? You're already being tracked then.
In the recent case of the Asian family (Amarjit Chohan) murdered by a bunch of criminal 'business' men one of the key pieces of evidence was the mobile phone records of the major players. The police obtained the records and placed the victim and the suspects all in the same house.
So maybe you need to get rid of that piece of technology of you're worried about your privacy....;)
Well, I hope eveyone signs up to the petition that Orger very kindly provided the link to.
Whitewater
23-Dec-06, 16:57
We are already being tracked, all cars for some time now have had chips installed to enable a satalite trace on stolen vehicles. This is just the next stage.
Another scheme for the government to raise funding which will not be spent on the roads, at least not in Caithness or northern Scotland.
Hi Folks
Official Statistic: "Currently there are about 1.75 million untaxed cars on our roads" does the Government really think these and the rest of us will follow the rules? no doubt right now someone is working on a blocking device.
Hahaha - yeah good one there whitewater. Where did you read this?
There is money to be made from tracking stolen cars - do you think the likes of "Tracker" or the other companies are going to give their service for free? Err no, cos they charge an annual fee of about £300 for this service. They'd lose that if new cars are fitted with 'chips'. My new car certainly is not fitted with it.
Whitewater
23-Dec-06, 17:14
Hahaha - yeah good one there whitewater. Where did you read this?
There is money to be made from tracking stolen cars - do you think the likes of "Tracker" or the other companies are going to give their service for free? Err no, cos they charge an annual fee of about £300 for this service. They'd lose that if new cars are fitted with 'chips'. My new car certainly is not fitted with it.
My car is 3 yrs old and fitted with a chip, as was the previous one which will now be six yrs old.
You're not referring to the engine management chip are you? If thats the case then sure, modern cars have "chips" but not for tracking their position. Do you think that the likes of "Liberty" or other civil rights organisations would allow this intrusion of personal privacy?
EM chips can be reprogrammed or removed and swapped to improve performance. You best watch out if you think that 'chips' mean tracking. There are 'chips' in almost every electronic device in your home. The PC in front of you has a bucket load.
Whitewater
23-Dec-06, 17:57
I'm not referring to engine management chip.
I think these black box tracker are comming whether we like it or not im not in favour i see it as an invasion of privacy because that trackers can tell your speed and location and then what next the police will be allowed access to the system for helping them with crime and potentential witnesses and i would image all the information gathered of the boxes will be kept for ages
Whitewater
23-Dec-06, 18:06
Any navigation system permanently fitted into a car is being tracked 24/24.
So it's the Sat Nav system you are claiming is able to track you?
Sat Nav Receivers works by receiving a signal from the orbiting satellites. It does not transmit anything. For it to transmit a signal it would have to comply with telecommunication regulations. That is why it is called a r-e-c-e-i-v-e-r....
I think you're reading too many conspiracy theory books...;)
I wonder is santa is going to be getting a tracker fitted to his sliegh so he has to pay air tax i bet it would cost him a fortune with all the miles he does on xmas eve?
I wonder is santa is going to be getting a tracker fitted to his sliegh so he has to pay air tax i bet it would cost him a fortune with all the miles he does on xmas eve?
One day a helicopter landed at the North Pole and a man with a clipboard climbed out. He tells Santa he's from the FAA and that his sleigh has to be tested for airworthiness. So Santa gets the sleigh out and the inspector goes round it kicking the runners and jumping on the seat. "That seems OK" he says "but we'll have to have a test flight". So Santa gets the reindeer and harnesses them up and he's sat in the sleigh when the inspector climbs in beside him with a shotgun.
"What's the shotgun for?" asks Santa.
"We have to test for engine failure on takeoff" replied the inspector.
So it's the Sat Nav system you are claiming is able to track you?
Sat Nav Receivers works by receiving a signal from the orbiting satellites. It does not transmit anything. For it to transmit a signal it would have to comply with telecommunication regulations. That is why it is called a r-e-c-e-i-v-e-r....
I think you're reading too many conspiracy theory books...;)
But its still going to be able to track u so they no how to bill u for what roads u been on and the information will have to be stored for people the dispute a bill most comany like bt british gas and mobile engineers have tracking systems already and they can pin point them any time even haulage company have that and there trackers can tell if the engine is still running on when the drivers out of the cab so they can save fuel.
Some of the modern HGV lorrys when it develops a fault the lorry text back to the dealer the fault and the dealer can diagnose and recalibrate the settings of the lorry while its being driven
EDDIE,
That's because they are trackers. I am not disputing that trackers can track your movements. I know as I used vehicles which were fitted with these devices. They also acted as 'black boxes' for recording any accidents.
These are used by many companies to monitor their fleets to safeguard goods intransit, prevent misuse of company vehicles or for Health & Safety reasons. They might combine a sat nav system into the device to save on devices cluttering a vehicle cab.
I am saying that the standard run of the mill Satellite Navigation Receiver cannot send your location to anyone (which is what whitewater stated in their post #16).
It is a receiver.
It receives data from a satellite/group of satellites which is then displayed in a way which your average human being can interpret.
The top of the range versions of the car I drive also has the option to have the ability to contact a 'rescue centre' in the event of a breakdown or accident. It uses the sat nav coupled with the vehicle phone to do this.
It is an option but one which you have to pay for. Nothing is free, and certainly tracking vehicles as I have stated is not free.
Whitewater
27-Dec-06, 20:40
I havn't had a look at this site for a few days, but I decided to have a look at my cars paperwork to see what I had installed. "Madpic" in one way was correct but he was wrong to assume that I was talking crap. Both my last car and this one had "tracker" systems installed, I paid for a three year subscription when I purchased the car. I guess I was as bad as "Madpic" for assuming that all cars had a similar system fitted. However, I must admit that I have been lucky and the system has not been put to the test. As one of my friends told me at the time, that if i had bought a Fiat, the badge was the best deterrent for preventing car theft
Click on this & sign if you haven't already done so http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/traveltax/ & pass it on to all your motoring friends.
Say NO to the Travel Tax...!!
Duly signed...no issue with the speeding thing, might slow some fast drivers down but I do object to not being able to roam freely without someone following my every move...very "Big Brother" in my opinion
Anyone know anything about this?
quote;
The government's proposal to introduce road pricing will mean you having to purchase a tracking device for your car and paying a monthly bill to use it. The tracking device will cost about £200 and in a recent study by the BBC, the lowest monthly bill was £28 for a rural florist and £194 for a delivery driver. A non working Mum who used the car to take the kids to school paid £86 in one month. On top of this massive increase in tax, you will be tracked. Somebody will know where you are at all times. They will also know how fast you have been going, so even if you accidentally creep over a speed limit in time you can probably expect a Notice of Intended Prosecution with your monthly bill.
I too watched this study conducted by the BBC, and as a being a non driver I am all for it. I just spent 3 quarters of an hour on a bus around 1300 today to travel approx one mile, the main reason for this was traffic congestion caused by single user drivers heading to the sales and queueing up to get access to the city car parks, thus blocking the streets to the perfectly good public transport system we have in Edinburgh.
I am not going on about the lack of public transport anywhere else, I am just on about Edinburgh.
I have never driven in my life and living in a city I see no need to have a car.
I dont care if it is big brother or not, if it gets me across Edinburgh more quickly then I am all for it.
End of Rant!!!!!
Whitewater,
I never said you were "talking crap" and I would never make such an assumption based solely upon something somebody posts on a message board. I, knowing a little bit about vehicle tracking systems and sat nav systems, merely questioned the source of your statements.
I am suprised you forgot about a 3 year sub to a tracking system though. Though, of course, this explains your assumption that all vehicles are fitted with such devices.
Jeemag_USA
27-Dec-06, 22:34
Oh mY God, you have to be kidding. one of the reasons I am gald to be out of the UK. Why is our government so oppresive when it comes to taxes and vehicles. Its not enough that you pay fourtimes as much for petrol than the US does but they now have to start charging you per mile on the road and checking your speed limit. This is noting short of taking peoples freedom away, something akin to turning a democracy into a dictatorship.
Is this going to replace the old road tax disc thing completely so you won't need that disc in your window??
I am curious, 86 pound a month for a mother taking her kids to school, holy moly??????
In the USA we have to pay for our license plates yearly, it goes down every year you have had your vehicle, mine is currently about 60 pound a year and there is no road tax. Petrol is currently about 1.25 pounds per gallon (thats 4.455 liters do the math). And the US still imports a large part of its oil from the gulf as does the UK.
Now for a small country that has its own oil reserves why has the UK always sucked blood from its citizens over petrol prices and road tax????? I also wondered why people in the north of scotland pay more for petrol than the south of england when you can step out of your house and see the oil rigs in the sea? (I know its because of trasnportation costs, but its a bit ironic that they ship the oil south from the north sea refine it and then charge you an arm and a leg to ship it back up :mad: )
I think its shameful!
The oil sucked out of the North Sea is not suitable for refining into petrol (if I recall correctly) hence why we have to import it.
It would be nice to think that if they introduce road charging the Vehicle Excise Licence will be scrapped, but as the government has now linked the VEL to CO2 emissions from vehicles (the lower the CO2 emission the lower the VEL) I somehow doubt if it will be dropped.
Just as if they introduce this new 'road tax' will they drop tax on fuel? I doubt it. The motorist is an easy target and will continue to expand the coffers of Brown to pay for all their mistakes....
Jeemag_USA
27-Dec-06, 22:57
I signed that petition using my UK address, there are only just under 70,000 signatures and I reckon you'd ne half a million to make people take any notice. I have sent the link to as many people as I could, everyone shoudl do the same!
percy toboggan
28-Dec-06, 18:36
[quote=MadPict;175805] Do you think that the likes of "Liberty" or other civil rights organisations would allow this intrusion of personal privacy?
quote]
The organisation you mention, fronted by that Sammi Chakrabati woman is fairly impotent (no apologies if I have ascribed her the wrong name for she is not on my Cheritsmas card list). We will need far heavier hitters than she to withstand the onslaught on personal freedoms by this government.
Slowly, it is dawning on the thinkers amongst us that liberty is fast becoming a thing of the past.We give away time honoured freedoms at our peril.
Do not vote Labour at the next election, and keep an eye on whoever else may get in.
I only mentioned Liberty as it sprang to mind ;)
And as for Shami Chakrabarti ( you were so close I suspect you sent her a card :p ) - she often winds me up when on TV but now and again she does make a valid point. Only now and agai though....
Conscience
28-Dec-06, 20:32
I too watched this study conducted by the BBC, and as a being a non driver I am all for it. I just spent 3 quarters of an hour on a bus around 1300 today to travel approx one mile, the main reason for this was traffic congestion caused by single user drivers heading to the sales and queueing up to get access to the city car parks, thus blocking the streets to the perfectly good public transport system we have in Edinburgh.
I am not going on about the lack of public transport anywhere else, I am just on about Edinburgh.
I have never driven in my life and living in a city I see no need to have a car.
I dont care if it is big brother or not, if it gets me across Edinburgh more quickly then I am all for it.
End of Rant!!!!!
You should have walked. Using a motor vehicle for a journey of one mile is completely environmentally irresponsible.
You should have walked. Using a motor vehicle for a journey of one mile is completely environmentally irresponsible.
Conscience, my journey was a lot longer than the mile stated, I used that as a metaphor to state the amount of time I was stuck in the traffic, and I did say approx a mile it might have been more, it might have been a bitty less.
And before jumping to the conclusion that you did of me being un-environmental by travelling in a public vehicle, how do you know if I am not impared in walking in any way?
Conscience
28-Dec-06, 21:38
I too watched this study conducted by the BBC, and as a being a non driver I am all for it. I just spent 3 quarters of an hour on a bus around 1300 today to travel approx one mile,
I went by what you wrote.
I dont care if it is big brother or not, if it gets me across Edinburgh more quickly then I am all for it.
You will care when you no longer have the freedoms you have today.
This is a famous poem. It can adapt to today's Government control of the British population, and their institution of a totalitarian state under the guise of 'security', fuelled by fear they themselves whip up.
First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.
Pastor Martin Niemöller
I went by what you wrote.
You will care when you no longer have the freedoms you have today.
This is a famous poem. It can adapt to today's Government control of the British population, and their institution of a totalitarian state under the guise of 'security', fuelled by fear they themselves whip up.
First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.
Pastor Martin Niemöller
Come off it conscience. Thats scaremongering of the most serious type.
I have a feeling theres more than you on caithness.org who would believe that sort of propeganda. :lol:
America and it's allies may have made a mess of the response to Sept 11 but they had to do something. I dont have a problem with the big brother thing because the only time it could be held against me would be if I was committing some crime or something equally sinister. Survellience could help clear me as well as convict me.
Conscience
28-Dec-06, 21:56
Come off it conscience. Thats scaremongering of the most serious type.
I have a feeling theres more than you on caithness.org who would believe that sort of propeganda. :lol:
America and it's allies may have made a mess of the response to Sept 11 but they had to do something. I dont have a problem with the big brother thing because the only time it could be held against me would be if I was committing some crime or something equally sinister. Survellience could help clear me as well as convict me.
That is your ,choice. Me, I prefer a Government that does not watch my every move, does not question my every financial transaction, does not require me to carry compulsory ID. If I wanted to live under a Government that did that I would go back and live under Stalin, Mussolini or Hitler.
That is your ,choice. Me, I prefer a Government that does not watch my every move, does not question my every financial transaction, does not require me to carry compulsory ID. If I wanted to live under a Government that did that I would go back and live under Stalin, Mussolini or Hitler.
There you go again.:eek:
Conscience
28-Dec-06, 22:11
Well ok then. Lets have all those things without argument, because we'll be safer right? In fact lets make mugging a thing of the past and bring in a public curfew for everyone from 8.00pm every night, because we'll be safer right? While we're at it lets make it illegal to own a car, that way car theft and crashes will disappear, we'll be safer right? Lets make holidays abroad illegal too, then no-one will die in aircrashes, dodgy coaches or drown at the beach, hey, we'll be safer right?
It'll be a utopia, everyone safe and sound!
Whitewater
28-Dec-06, 23:04
Whitewater,
I am suprised you forgot about a 3 year sub to a tracking system though. Though, of course, this explains your assumption that all vehicles are fitted with such devices.
Present car is approaching 3yrs of age now, I guess it is maybe an age thing, I tend not to pay too much attention to items like that unless I need to.
Well if nothing else our little discussion has reminded you, that in the event your car gets stolen or lost in the huge carparks springing up all across Caithness around supermarket stores, you can phone up and get it tracked!
Do the Police in the county have a tracker locater equipped car?.......
Come off it conscience. Thats scaremongering of the most serious type.
I have a feeling theres more than you on caithness.org who would believe that sort of propeganda. :lol:
America and it's allies may have made a mess of the response to Sept 11 but they had to do something. I dont have a problem with the big brother thing because the only time it could be held against me would be if I was committing some crime or something equally sinister. Survellience could help clear me as well as convict me.
But what if the crime was being a member of an opposition party?
It's happened so many times in so many countries, what makes you think it can't happen here?
Conscience
29-Dec-06, 01:09
Its already happening. Make any form of protest within a mile of Westminster and you will be arrested under 'anti-terror' law.
I have signed the petition too now, if it goes through it will cost me an absolute fortune with all the mikes I do in a year driving the length of the UK. Sick of seeing the M8, M6 (I do like the toll road there though, it bybasses the traffic queues at Birmingham), M40. The worst road has to be the M25 ring it is a nightmare.
The M6 Toll road is a blessing - only trouble is when you hit the end of it - everything grinds to a halt....:(
The M6 Toll road is a blessing - only trouble is when you hit the end of it - everything grinds to a halt....:(
The prices are going up on the toll as of Monday, think it is going to be £4 for cars. I will still use it though as I can't be bothered sitting for hours between junction 10 and 13. It is great to use though a virtually empty motorway, pity it doesn't last longer though.
At what point will the cost of building the M6Toll break even I wonder? I use the Dartford crossing quite a bit and just digging round the HA site for the crossing produced some figures.
The first tunnel was built for £13 million and opened in 1963. The second tunnel cost £45 and opened in 1980. The bridge was opened in 1991 built at a cost of £184m.
Total cost of all 3 projects £242 million.
From the Traffic Flow page - "Total number of vehicles that have used the Crossing from 18th November 1963 to 30th September 2004: 996,385,171"
That's almost one billion vehicles? Has the crossing paid for it's self yet?
Tolls on the Dartford Crossing were introduced in order to pay for the construction of the tunnels and bridge. In September 2001, the government announced that once the cost of construction had been met, it intended to replace the tolls with a 'congestion charging scheme'.
This congestion charging scheme gets everywhere don't it......
M6 Toll
It appears it cost about £500 million to build.
From http://www.notolls.org.uk/m6.htm
Midland Expressway have a concession to collect the tolls to 2054. They can charge whatever they like. The agreement between the Government and the company may include secret clauses, designed to encourage traffic to use the toll road. The Government were taken to court before the road opened, but the judges backed the Government's action in refusing to reveal the full agreement. Since then the Freedom of Information Act has taken effect, but so far the Government are still keeping most of the agreement a secret from the public.
The government keeping secrets? Never........
Are the goverment not considering (maybe done it already) doing the congestion charging in other cities like Edinburgh and Glasgow?
When the price of the M6 Toll goes up next week it will cost 14.8p per mile to travel the full length of it (27 miles) more if you cut off early.
They are planning putting another lane on the M25, who will pay for that? will they turn that into a toll system as well? or will the completion of the new lane co-inside with introduction of the 'pay as you drive' that they are planning.
If the goverment introduces this new scheme how much will they charge for driving on a Motorway, 'A' or 'B' road and are unclassified roads going to be free.
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