Just saw 3 very near misses due to icy weather driving speeds...

[JamJam]

Just travelled across Wick to drop off my other half at work and saw 3 very near misses (not involving me I might add). In each case, one or both cars were driving much too quickly for the icy conditions. For goodness sake people, it's so obvious - drive appropriately for the conditions i.e. slow down when the weather is bad. Also, does anyone know why the gritters have not been out in Wick?

[Tugmistress]

You will probably find the people doing the near misses were just doing their normal autopilot run to work at last minute and couldn't 'afford' to slow down for the conditions due to time constraints.
As for the gritters then i would assume that overtime money has a part to play as it's not knee deep in snow :roll:

[newweecroft]

Good quality winter tyres from 'the big 6' would go along way towards ensuring safety on our roads in winter. But alass to many are of the notion that we do not get enough snow to justify them, despite the name stating blaringly obviously winter not snow tyres.

[embow]

Seeing as it's St Andrew's Day today then surely the use of Saltires should help! Boom!boom!:roll:

[Even Chance]

Good quality winter tyres from 'the big 6' would go along way towards ensuring safety on our roads in winter. But alass to many are of the notion that we do not get enough snow to justify them, despite the name stating blaringly obviously winter not snow tyres.

They wont help with ice will they tho? Any tyres with good tread depth will work in snow and standing water. Snow aint too bad, at least you get some grip, not like ice. Modern cars with wide wheels dont help any. Also, practising a skid somewhere there is a lot of area and nothing to hit is something I would recommend highly to get used to how your car reacts before it happens for real. Folks need to know how a car reacts to understeer and oversteer and how to compensate and recover from the slide...

[newweecroft]

They wont help with ice will they tho? Any tyres with good tread depth will work in snow and standing water. Snow aint too bad, at least you get some grip, not like ice. Modern cars with wide wheels dont help any. Also, practising a skid somewhere there is a lot of area and nothing to hit is something I would recommend highly to get used to how your car reacts before it happens for real. Folks need to know how a car reacts to understeer and oversteer and how to compensate and recover from the slide...That's the problem, your wrong and so is everyone else who denies the need. Granted they are are not studs they will not bite "into" the ice, but they have two features that provide far superior grip on ice. These are 3d siping and a softer compound that does not stiffen up below 7degC this allows them to conform to variations of the surface and the former provides a massively increased surface for biting "onto". Ice is not smooth it is rough and winter tyres take advantage of this, summer tyres do not. The difference when winter tyres are fitted is like putting on hiking boots in place of plimsoles. Rather than making assumptions and listening to illogical arguaments against them people should take the plunge and try them, (but do your research first, as winter tyres are not all created equal, and of course- you get what you pay for) you won't go back!If the cost of two sets of wheels and tyres is the problem then when it comes time to change them fit Nokian WRX G2's as these are a winter biased all season (you can get car or SUV versions) and leave them on all year. Even the government have said if you can only run one set go for winters.And for the neh sayers who will pop up, I still get 50mpg combined econ same as on the Pirelli eco tyres the SUV came with.

[ducati]

That's the problem, your wrong and so is everyone else who denies the need. Granted they are are not studs they will not bite "into" the ice, but they have two features that provide far superior grip on ice. These are 3d siping and a softer compound that does not stiffen up below 7degC this allows them to conform to variations of the surface and the former provides a massively increased surface for biting "onto". Ice is not smooth it is rough and winter tyres take advantage of this, summer tyres do not. The difference when winter tyres are fitted is like putting on hiking boots in place of plimsoles. Rather than making assumptions and listening to illogical arguaments against them people should take the plunge and try them, (but do your research first, as winter tyres are not all created equal, and of course- you get what you pay for) you won't go back!If the cost of two sets of wheels and tyres is the problem then when it comes time to change them fit Nokian WRX G2's as these are a winter biased all season (you can get car or SUV versions) and leave them on all year. Even the government have said if you can only run one set go for winters.And for the neh sayers who will pop up, I still get 50mpg combined econ same as on the Pirelli eco tyres the SUV came with.

Excellent! Where can I buy them?

[newweecroft]

I get them of the internet but a friend had a set fitted at elders, dunbeath.

[jimbews]

That's the problem, your wrong and so is everyone else who denies the need. Granted they are are not studs they will not bite "into" the ice, but they have two features that provide far superior grip on ice. These are 3d siping and a softer compound that does not stiffen up below 7degC this allows them to conform to variations of the surface and the former provides a massively increased surface for biting "onto". Ice is not smooth it is rough and winter tyres take advantage of this, summer tyres do not. The difference when winter tyres are fitted is like putting on hiking boots in place of plimsoles. Rather than making assumptions and listening to illogical arguaments against them people should take the plunge and try them, (but do your research first, as winter tyres are not all created equal, and of course- you get what you pay for) you won't go back!If the cost of two sets of wheels and tyres is the problem then when it comes time to change them fit Nokian WRX G2's as these are a winter biased all season (you can get car or SUV versions) and leave them on all year. Even the government have said if you can only run one set go for winters.And for the neh sayers who will pop up, I still get 50mpg combined econ same as on the Pirelli eco tyres the SUV came with.

Just be careful. although Which are advocating their use they do include the warning:

9) Will winter tyres affect my insurance?We've heard of a few people asking their insurers about this and being told that winter tyres are counted as a 'modification'. In fact we’ve heard of at least one person being declined insurance if they fit them. We’ll continue to investigate this.
As far as we're concerned, as long as the tyre meets the car manufacturer's specified size, and minimum speed and load ratings, they should not be counted as a ‘modification’ to the car and should not therefore change the insurance risk. And many might argue that improving grip in winter conditions should reduce the risk of accidents, thus pleasing insurers.

[2little2late]

Simple.......... use gears and not brakes on ice and snow. And drive slower and according to road/weather conditions.

[newweecroft]

Simple.......... use gears and not brakes on ice and snow. And drive slower and according to road/weather conditions.Advocating driving to the conditions is admirable but advocating preparing your car for winter is even better. That way if you do want to use your brakes your tyres continue to maintain traction. Engine braking is great until that kid runs out or the guy nipping across in front of you slips and falls requiring you to stop abruptly, and no one mention speed, at 10mph a car will slide on summer tyres on ice. Mine won't.

[newweecroft]

Just be careful. although Which are advocating their use they do include the warning:9) Will winter tyres affect my insurance?We've heard of a few people asking their insurers about this and being told that winter tyres are counted as a 'modification'. In fact we’ve heard of at least one person being declined insurance if they fit them. We’ll continue to investigate this.As far as we're concerned, as long as the tyre meets the car manufacturer's specified size, and minimum speed and load ratings, they should not be counted as a ‘modification’ to the car and should not therefore change the insurance risk. And many might argue that improving grip in winter conditions should reduce the risk of accidents, thus pleasing insurers.That was a while back. In Jan '10 the association of British insurer's told all the insurers to stop talking crop, it was an insurance scam to make you pay £25 to add the modification.

[Dialyser]

I am now on my third year of using winter tyres. The difference that they make is huge and the cost is minimal.
I would like to see a change in law to make the use of winter tyres mandatory at this time of year. Summer tyres are simply are not designed to be used at this time of the year, in this country (the clue is in the name).

http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/winter-tyres-tested/snow-and-ice/259257

[Even Chance]

Yer talking keich again. Winter tyres can sook ma tatties!
No way Im spending extra on tyres when theyre so effin expensive for the keich "summer" tyres anyway.
We're in Caithness, where folks dinna led spending extra. Mind at ane wid ye.....

[newweecroft]

Yer talking keich again. Winter tyres can sook ma tatties! No way Im spending extra on tyres when theyre so effin expensive for the keich "summer" tyres anyway.We're in Caithness, where folks dinna led spending extra. Mind at ane wid ye.....

Doesn't make it right, merely shows up the ignorance, arrogance and selfishness of the driver.
As said run something like the Nokian all year round and you won't be paying any more than for the summers. Let's face it, this is Caithness not jersey you would think that anyone with half a brain would pick up on the fact that the weather is for most of the year more winter like than summer like.
How often do you hear folk say " we didna get a summer this year, we only had one day of summer this year, oh that one week of summer in march" its never ' what a short winter, we didna have a winter this year'.

One hour of research into the technologies and application would make it obvious of the role they play in our climate, anyone reffing against them shows their ignorance and laziness as they have clearly not done so.

[ducati]

Have to chuck my hat in now. IMO Winter tyres are not worth the expense. Anyone with half a brain will drive 40% slower and more carefully in bad weather so winter tyres would need to be 40% better which they are not. Anti-lock brakes and traction control also chuck most driver and tyre input out the window anyway. :D

I'd like to see some statistics about accidents with or without, would be interesting.

Anyone who thinks winter tyres grip on ice is going to be very disapointed and likely to be making a sheepish insurance claim BTW.

[newweecroft]

Winter tyres are more than 40% more effective than summers, all the like for like tests show this clearly. Edit 60% more grip seems the common difference between good quality summer and winter tyres.

Winter tyres will not grip all ice in all situations but like for like they will grip on ice over 40% better. Edit 6 car lengths seems the average.

Again loads of tests and reviews out their running like for like tests on identical vehicles driving on ice rinks.

If you don't think its worth it fine, at present no one will make you fit them. I just hope the tide of ignorance will turn one day or the government will institute laws like Germany or other northern countries.

For reference I run the Nokians as all season tyres April/may to Oct/Nov. Then fit Dunlop wintersport.
I run the nokians down to 3mm and the dunlops to 4mm as tread depth is very important and wet grip drops off very quickly after 3mm.
See;
http://www.rospa.com/roadsafety/info/tyre_tread_depth.pdf

[Even Chance]

If you want til do a comparison, I'll accept yer driving challenge and test oot against yer "super tyres" , and I'll still run rings roond you! lol

[mi16]

To be fair, in my experience winter tyres over the past few years have made the difference to me of having traction vs having no traction.
However for anyone considering a set, remember to fit 4 and not 2.
I found that whilst not giving spectacular grip on ice, the grip is greatly improved over an all weather tyre.

[Even Chance]

To be fair, in my experience winter tyres over the past few years have made the difference to me of having traction vs having no traction.
However for anyone considering a set, remember to fit 4 and not 2.
I found that whilst not giving spectacular grip on ice, the grip is greatly improved over an all weather tyre.
They made a difference to my old mans beemer in the snow. He couldnt get any grip to pull away at all, even with a boot full of weight. The snow tyres enabled him to at least get the minimum of traction. Made eff all difference on ice though.

[mi16]

They made a difference to my old mans beemer in the snow. He couldnt get any grip to pull away at all, even with a boot full of weight. The snow tyres enabled him to at least get the minimum of traction. Made eff all difference on ice though.

made one hell of a difference to my old E60, turned a useless snow car into a crap one.
My other motor was transformed from a decent snow car to a tremendous one, I agree though that on a sheet of ice you still had virtually no grip.

[newweecroft]

They made a difference to my old mans beemer in the snow. He couldnt get any grip to pull away at all, even with a boot full of weight. The snow tyres enabled him to at least get the minimum of traction. Made eff all difference on ice though.

That's interesting, do you happen to know the model of the tyres? Also the lack of traction on ice, was this pulling away, turning or stopping?


Secondly are there two people posting under your account as there seems to be two distinct language and writing styles?

Finally the challenge sounds great, lets have a who can stop first test, on ice at 20mph with the breaking line 30m from a brick wall.
Ps I am joking I would never intentionally incite you to write off your car.

[mi16]

I have used Pirelli scottzero and vreidenstein snowtrac tyres.Both very good