View Full Version : Bbc alba - whats the point in gaelic?
Green_not_greed
18-Nov-12, 02:49
While I think some of the programmes on BBC ALBA are great, I do wonder just how much politics (rather than common sense) is behind the reason to broadcast them in gaelic ? Just how many Hearts and St Mirren supporters speak gaelic? Get real ! I thought TV was all about viewing numbers. IMO this is another SNP policy not thought through (as most of them appear to be). If BBC Alba is for Scotland, then it should broadcast in the language which the vast majority of us speak. Debate welcome!
I Think Gaelic Should Be Taught In School. Personally I Think Its Rather Sad That We Dont Speak Gaelic Or Even Caithness Dialect Anymore! Surely We Should Learn The Languages Of Our Own Country First Before Learning Others! Its A Sad State Of Affairs That Upon Leaving School Kids Could Go To France And Have A Conversation With A French Man, But Couldnt Go To Skye & Speak Gaelic!
Language is about communication, pure & simple... Since 100% speak English & only 1 or 2% speak Gaelic then it makes sense to broadcast in mostly English.
radiohead
18-Nov-12, 09:28
I think using the Gaelic on BBC Alba is a good thing, although it is less used language in Scotland, it is still an often used second language. What I do find, is the issue of changing roadsigns to BI-Lingual. Now that is a waste of council money, in the current economic climate, which will get worse if King Alec becomes leader of all he surveys.
rich62_uk
18-Nov-12, 09:31
Learning another language stretches the mind and I too feel it should be taught in schools. Why would anyone say no to a child learning anything ! I am at a loss...
I think it is a great idea. Where do I apply for my discount on the TV licence? Obviously I'm not be expected to pay for it, am I?
I tried to translate " the point" into Gaelic, but Google Translate does not have the Gaelic.
Maybe that's not really what Mr Greed was asking.
I tried to translate " the point" into Gaelic, but Google Translate does not have the Gaelic.Maybe that's not really what Mr Greed was asking.It translates as 'an pointe'. Select Irish in Google translate, as the two languages are almost identical!
The point of Gaelic is very clear. An act of parliament has given it equal status to English in Scotland and all public bodies need to deliver a Gaelic plan to a Quango directly responsable to the Scottish governemt for the promotion of Gaelic in Scotland.
The Gaelic bill was passed unopposed in the Scottish parliament in 2005 under a labour government prodded by a very active Gaelic lobby working in the wings.
Gaelic language is the future for scotland. They have already claimed the heritage even where there was non before.
You havnt seen nothing yet.
pig whisperer
18-Nov-12, 10:47
the same happened in Wales, the next thing will be letters from the council etc, they will have a copy in gaelic, how much that would cost, still, iT would provide a job for a gaelic speaker [isnt there a gaelic mediun school that has a non gaelic speaking head ???]
rich62_uk
18-Nov-12, 11:02
the same happened in Wales, the next thing will be letters from the council etc, they will have a copy in gaelic, how much that would cost, still, iT would provide a job for a gaelic speaker [isnt there a gaelic mediun school that has a non gaelic speaking head ???]
Thought I read something like that too, in Inverness however they had not yet appointed a head just talking about it although this could of changed.
linda.borgie
18-Nov-12, 11:11
While I think some of the programmes on BBC ALBA are great, I do wonder just how much politics (rather than common sense) is behind the reason to broadcast them in gaelic ? Just how many Hearts and St Mirren supporters speak gaelic? Get real ! I thought TV was all about viewing numbers. IMO this is another SNP policy not thought through (as most of them appear to be). If BBC Alba is for Scotland, then it should broadcast in the language which the vast majority of us speak. Debate welcome
!
Indeed just how many ICT or Ross County or even Wick or Brora speak it.
Ian
As a lowland Scot I like Gaelic. it's quaint and might interest some tourists but to many it's all hull-muckadoo about nothing. For those that claim it's part of our heritage - well so are shale mines, one room terrace houses and outside toilets (along with cholera and dysentery). The world has moved on and we can wax lyrical all we want about the language but many of us have yet to be convinced what useful purpose it serves. A fifth of the world's population speaks English so let's just go with the flow.
As a lowland Scot I like Gaelic. it's quaint and might interest some tourists but to many it's all hull-muckadoo about nothing. For those that claim it's part of our heritage - well so are shale mines, one room terrace houses and outside toilets (along with cholera and dysentery). The world has moved on and we can wax lyrical all we want about the language but many of us have yet to be convinced what useful purpose it serves. A fifth of the world's population speaks English so let's just go with the flow.
My sentiments exactly!!!, I like BBC Alba for their coverage of Scottish Football, not all of us subscribe to the Sports Channels. Our Canadian cousins who do speak Gaelic, French and English too, tune in avidly from the Eastern seaboard provinces such as Nova Scotia & New Brunswick
Thought I read something like that too, in Inverness however they had not yet appointed a head just talking about it although this could of changed.
Will they appoint an unqualified, incompetent Gaelic speaking person, rather than a good candidate who speaks only modern languages?
rich62_uk
18-Nov-12, 12:22
I have no idea.
Green_not_greed
18-Nov-12, 14:13
I tried to translate " the point" into Gaelic, but Google Translate does not have the Gaelic.
Maybe that's not really what Mr Greed was asking.
LOL ! I really like that sense of humour.
billmoseley
18-Nov-12, 16:36
When we moved up here we thought we would give learning Gaelic a go. We did 10 lessons and my god it was hard i was surprised how difficult it was and wife wife found it the same and she is a teacher who loves to learn. I think it's a great pity it isn't spoken more. We holidayed on Lewis this year and it was nice to here it being used in day to day life
When we moved up here we thought we would give learning Gaelic a go. We did 10 lessons and my god it was hard i was surprised how difficult it was and wife wife found it the same and she is a teacher who loves to learn. I think it's a great pity it isn't spoken more. We holidayed on Lewis this year and it was nice to here it being used in day to day lifeI had the same idea when I moved up here. Started classes in Thurso, but unfortunately there weren't enough takers for the classes to continue. I understand there are now local tutors being trained, so hopefully the classes will soon continue. I for one will be 'watching this space' as the saying goes!
When we moved up here we thought we would give learning Gaelic a go. We did 10 lessons and my god it was hard i was surprised how difficult it was and wife wife found it the same and she is a teacher who loves to learn. I think it's a great pity it isn't spoken more. We holidayed on Lewis this year and it was nice to here it being used in day to day life
I'd give English a bit more of a bash if I were you. :lol:
Whilst I completely understand the sentiment many people feel towards Gaelic, I really don't agree with the constant push from govrnment towards its use and education.
The Scots in general are very ignorant of second languages. If they are to be taught one from a young age, I'd rather see them taught a language they could use with foreigners in their future careers.
Apart from sentiment, nostalgia and further separatism, can anybody really give me a good reason for such a disproportionate level of promotion for the Gaelic as opposed to foreign languages? And please don't quote "identity" or "tourist benefits", I don't buy into that - sorry.
cptdodger
19-Nov-12, 01:07
I agree theone, my son is at University at the moment studying accountancy, and European business studies, as such he has learned to speak French and German. I have no idea what good teaching kids today, Gaelic would do them, unless, they never moved from the North of Scotland. I am Scottish, but not from here. Where I grew up, I knew one person who could speak Gaelic, I am not aware of anybody else, even moving up here, I have never come across anybody speaking Gaelic, or even heard anybody speaking the language. I have a Scottish accent, so it is quite clear, what my identity is, I certainly do'nt need another language, that only a small percentage of the population understands to point out where I am from.
So, I totally agree with theone, it's not going to benefit tourists, if they can't understand a word that is being said to them, they can go abroad for that.
billmoseley
19-Nov-12, 19:54
I'd give English a bit more of a bash if I were you. :lol: i were never any good at that either [lol]
For the sake of balance in this thread, perhaps we should look to the views of other indigenous peoples around the world who have seen their language die out due to the presence of a state-sponsored language which has been exclusively promoted to the expensive of minority languages.
I suspect that they would say early intervention is the key for a language's survival before the critical mass of speakers falls below a level in which it faces terminal decline.
cptdodger
19-Nov-12, 20:47
Fair point Rheghead, but tell me, how long has it been (if ever) that Gaelic was the first language for the whole of Scotland ?
the schools say no... there is not enough time to teach a rich standard curriculum and the SNP want to cut school hours further
school time has to be prioritised - there is so much kids could learn
therefore you ask the wrong question.
The question is what second language should be taught. French, Spanish, Chinese?
you're right: the welsh government spends a huge amount of money translating everything, even when it doesn't make any sense to.
the EU does the same. the translation of everything into every member language costs billions.
and remember that modern English is not the language of England past. It has evolved and is evolving both in England and across the world. The equivalent would be the English government publishing second language material in the language of Chaucer.
Fair point Rheghead, but tell me, how long has it been (if ever) that Gaelic was the first language for the whole of Scotland ?
Scottish Gaelic was spoken by King James IV (1473 - 1513 )
http://cranntara.org.uk/gaelic.htm
cptdodger
22-Nov-12, 15:12
Scottish Gaelic was spoken by King James IV (1473 - 1513 )
http://cranntara.org.uk/gaelic.htm
And this is now 2012 - things have moved on.
And this is now 2012 - things have moved on.
The French ceded Canada to the British in 1763, but French is still widely spoken and is all things in Canada are bi-linqually labled, whats the difference with Scotland having two languages ?
Bobinovich
22-Nov-12, 17:29
The difference is that about 23% of Canadians have French as their native tongue...remind me what percentage of Scots speak Gaelic as theirs?
ah, we are into the numbers game now.:D
cptdodger
22-Nov-12, 18:32
The French ceded Canada to the British in 1763, but French is still widely spoken and is all things in Canada are bi-linqually labled, whats the difference with Scotland having two languages ?
"French is the mother tongue[/URL] of about seven million Canadians (22.3% of the Canadian population, second to English at 58.4%). Most native French speakers in Canada live in Quebec (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language), where French is the majority and sole official language."
"The 2001 Census showed that a total of 58,652 (1.2% of the Scottish population aged over three years old) [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Gaelic#cite_note-Kenneth_MacKinnon_2003-7"] in Scotland could speak Gaelic at that time"
Also, as of 2001 there was not one person who spoke Gaelic only. Now certainly these results are from Wikipedia, how accurate they are I have no idea. I am afraid Canada is not the best example as French is an official language there, whereas here, Gaelic is not.
I have no objection if people want to speak Gaelic, what I would object to, is it being taught in schools, as Eipi pointed out, there are not enough hours in the school day just now, so it is just a pointless exercise, how will it benefit them in the jobs market ?
And this is now 2012 - things have moved on.
It seems the anti-gaelic lobby has all the bases covered.
cptdodger
22-Nov-12, 19:13
It seems the anti-gaelic lobby has all the bases covered.
Why, because this is 2012 ? I am not anti - Gaelic, if you want to speak it carry on, nobody can stop you. Now, if the pro Gaelic lobby felt that strongly about their language they should have forced the issue and pushed for it to become an official language. Which presumably is what the French speaking Canadians did.
I have no objection if people want to speak Gaelic, what I would object to, is it being taught in schools, as Eipi pointed out, there are not enough hours in the school day just now, so it is just a pointless exercise, how will it benefit them in the jobs market ?
New Gaelic school opening here in Edinburgh shortly, so there seems to be a justification for some folks wanting to learn Gaelic
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-15486388
cptdodger
22-Nov-12, 20:02
New Gaelic school opening here in Edinburgh shortly, so there seems to be a justification for some folks wanting to learn Gaelic
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-15486388
And I still stand by what I have said, how will that benefit them in the jobs market ?
And I still stand by what I have said, how will that benefit them in the jobs market ?
Many students go to University, come out of Uni with daft degrees and end up slinging burgers in MacDonalds, what was the point of all that learning and costs?
cptdodger
22-Nov-12, 20:36
You would have to ask them that. By the time they go to University they are old enough to make their own choices. I have no idea what you are referring to as a "daft" degree, even so, whatever they do, and whatever they end up doing is their choice. However, they do'nt have the choice as to what they are taught in primary school, and it is down to the parents to choose whether or not to send them to a gaelic school. I will say this again, I cannot see the point of teaching a child a language that a tiny percentage of the population (Scotland) can speak. My son, who is at Dundee University is studying Accountancy and European Business Studies, and as such can speak French and German fluently now. Little good learning Gaelic would have done him.
Just read on Twitter 'Learning a language makes your brain grow' That's good enough reason to learn Gaelic!
I don't understand why Gaelic seems to be used so often as a kind of gesture, i.e. Highland Council have suddenly got it spattered all over their documents, both paper and digital, so you get headings in two languages followed by text in English. If they were for people who only speak Gaelic, then why have the rest in English? If they're for people who speak English, why translate the headings into Gaelic and what does that cost? All it does is take up lots more space.
As for a second language in schools, Mandarin will probably soon be the most useful.
I don't understand why Gaelic seems to be used so often as a kind of gesture, i.e. Highland Council have suddenly got it spattered all over their documents, both paper and digital, so you get headings in two languages followed by text in English. If they were for people who only speak Gaelic, then why have the rest in English? If they're for people who speak English, why translate the headings into Gaelic and what does that cost? All it does is take up lots more space.
As for a second language in schools, Mandarin will probably soon be the most useful.
Since the Gaelic Act became law in 2005 public bodies have, by law, to present a Gaelic plan to a governemnt appointed commitee (a Quango) whose prime aim is to promote Gaelic in a modern Scotland. They get about 5 million a year to do that. I think its money well spent but there are some problems with the enforcement they demand from those of us who have never had any connection with the Gaelic language or gaelic culture. Road signs is an example. Its completely alien to have gaelic roadsigns in Caithess but in a hundred yeatrs they will all be in gaelic. It's a revolution. I dont know if it was planned or if it happened by accident but somehow those who had kept Gaelic alive during the 20th century, although a small minority, were able to convince the Scottish government that Gaelic should become an official language of scotland. What your seeing now is a process. Its going to be become more visible as the years go by and more people start to speak Gaelic.
Better get used to it.
200 years ago the Gaelic was a language spoken by a minority of Scots. Nowadays it's a political pistachio administered by power crazy fascists with brains smaller than peanuts. Art was a case in point but he eventually realised he was out of his depth and he stood down. Would he get a job on the checkouts at Walmart? I doubt it.
200 years ago the Gaelic was a language spoken by a minority of Scots. Nowadays it's a political pistachio administered by power crazy fascists with brains smaller than peanuts. Art was a case in point but he eventually realised he was out of his depth and he stood down. Would he get a job on the checkouts at Walmart? I doubt it.
Art had a fine voice though.:lol:
Just read on Twitter 'Learning a language makes your brain grow' That's good enough reason to learn Gaelic!
Yeah but Twitter makes it shrink again.
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