View Full Version : Ipswich Murders
These murders are dreadful, All these poor families struggling with this would be dreadful at any time but so close to Christmas that its more heartbreaking.
I dont think there is anything else to say other than i hope they catch this person quickly. I'm horrified
It is totally horrific; I just hope they catch whoever is responsible soon. I think there is more chance of catching whoever is responsible than getting the media to report in a sensitive manner – ok we know they were prostitutes, is there any need to continually labour the point?
I see one of the national newspapers is offering £250,000 for information that leads to the capture of the perp.
Crazy days
I think there is more chance of catching whoever is responsible than getting the media to report in a sensitive manner – ok we know they were prostitutes, is there any need to continually labour the point?
I'm not trying to be contentious here (there's been enough of that, I think), but, to clarify, if a pattern has emerged where five bank workers were murdered, or a number of shop assistants were killed, then it would probably be reported as such. ie., "Seventh Bank Worker Targetted", or similar. It has been revealed that five alleged prosititutes have been murdered, and that is what the media have informed. It also informs others in that profession to be more guarded.
Ian.
Have to agree with you RIR, I watched the news last night and they showed a clip of one of the missing girls being interviewed prior to her disappearance. They asked her why she was still working and she said she needed the money.
Despite the media stating that it 'appeared' to be women in her profession that were targetted, she was still willing to take the chance. Hopefully the fact it is so publicised will make at least some of them stop and think about their safety.
Although, it has also been stated that they are worried it is a 'regular' as the woman may be more select about whose car they get in.
Its a crazy old world. :(
The Angel Of Death
13-Dec-06, 16:07
These murders are well sad BUT until something is done to protect these working girls i wont be surprised if we don't hear of something else like this in a few months / years time
Wouldn't it be more like sense to provide a safe secure working environment and introduce monthly testing for example and then charge tax in return
You never hear of 5 shop workers or hospital staff all being murdered within a set period do you ???
This is almost on my doorstep.
You can't account for who a murderer is going to target - it may well be shopworkers or nurses. It depends on the mindset of the perpetrator.
The fact all victims have been found just off the A14 could point to it being a lorry driver or someone using this route. It could just be coincidence.
While no one deserves to meet their end like this, these girls are involved in a dangerous 'occupation', working in seedy areas, down dark badly lit streets, stopping strangers and getting into their vehicles. Would the European style licensed brothels make their lives safer? Maybe, but they still engage in a risky business.
These murders are well sad BUT until something is done to protect these working girls i wont be surprised if we don't hear of something else like this in a few months / years time
Wouldn't it be more like sense to provide a safe secure working environment and introduce monthly testing for example and then charge tax in return
You never hear of 5 shop workers or hospital staff all being murdered within a set period do you ???
Good idea. But it wouldn't work. Licensed establishments would not take girls with track marks, nor the underage ones. Nor would they accept girls working for pimps, who would want their "cut", and who control their "workforce" with drugs. Licensed establishments would not be attractive to the illegal immigrant "slaves". They would all remain "on the streets".
My perspective.
Regards
Ian.
These murders are well sad BUT until something is done to protect these working girls i wont be surprised if we don't hear of something else like this in a few months / years time
Wouldn't it be more like sense to provide a safe secure working environment and introduce monthly testing for example and then charge tax in return
You never hear of 5 shop workers or hospital staff all being murdered within a set period do you ???
Well i suppose if they are working girls. Then why cant they be taxed & looked after by some kind of system. Have health check,s etc & be controlled by the state. Some say that it,s the oldest profession in the world
so if it cannot be stopped why not legalise it. Guess it,s bound to quell some percentage of would be rapist,s etc. reckon most folks might dissagree with me on this one. But let them tell me what ,s the answer to it. it,s never going to stop. so why not try to make it safer for these poor girls
:~(
i know im gonna get some kickback for this posting.?
I actually agree - i think that the european style of legalised brothels would be a good start. An amnesty where the girls can get help with drug problems and good health care - maybe more rehab places would be a good idea too. Surely there are few girls who choose prostitution as their career path they end up there thro a combination of circumstances. There but for the grace of god i guess
Perhaps we should legalise speeding so we can all speed along the highway in a safe environment?:confused
Perhaps we should legalise speeding so we can all speed along the highway in a safe environment?:confused
think your missing the point here. but i agree with you in part, the motorway speed limit aught to be amended to take into account modern day motor cars. 70 mph was introduced to conserve fuel in the fuel years shortage. 80 would be a more realistic speed on motoways today, would stop a lot of tailbacks and motorway congestion. obviously schools 20 mph, towns 30mph & hgv should stay at the same speeds now imposed except on motorways 70 instead of 60 as hgv s also have better braking systems & shorter stopping distances . 40 yrs ago cars were good if they returned 35 mpg nowadays its common for some vehicles to return 60 even 70 mpg.
ps, speed alone does not kill, driver error doe,s coupled with speed.
:(
Good post Johno.
Rheghead, whatever your views on prostitution the fact is some sick individual/s has targeted these women. They are very easy targets.
I think (and I may be wrong) is that Rhegheads point is: where do you stop?
Rheghead made a valid point - he could easily have replaced speeding with heroin use etc etc. If everything was made legal in order for it to happen in a proper environment, there could be bigger problems.
While I've no doubt that prostitutes would be better protected in a 'safe environment', they would be undoubtedly better off if they weren't involved in prostitution at all. Unfortunately, there isn't an easy solution.
As Squidge said, 'Surely there are few girls who choose prostitution as their career path' but something has driven them down that path and it would take a lot to go in the opposite direction.
I feel regret for the murders. But perhaps if the police and society took a harder line on prostitution then the girls wouldn't be on the street for attack?
I think we've been through all this arguement before about pros prividing a service and all that but there is nothing that they can't provide which a mag and a fist can't.
The client/prostitute relationship has more to do with power and oppression just like an abuser/victim relationship than it has got anything to do with sexual servicing. Is that what we want?
This sort of murder might possibly not happen in Caithness because of the absence of brothels/red light districts. Do you really think that legalising prostitution will stop this type of murder?
I would prefer if the Police took a harder line with the "customers", if there was no demand then supply would disappear.
This is not good in any way. These poor families will be going through hell at the moment...
I hope when and if they find the killer that he/she will never be seen again..
My thoughts are all out to those familes..!!
But perhaps if the police and society took a harder line on prostitution then the girls wouldn't be on the street for attack?
The client/prostitute relationship has more to do with power and oppression just like an abuser/victim relationship than it has got anything to do with sexual servicing. Is that what we want?
This sort of murder might possibly not happen in Caithness because of the absence of brothels/red light districts. Do you really think that legalising prostitution will stop this type of murder?
As an abuser/victim relationship who is the abuser and who the victim. If the victim is the prostitute then is a harder line by the police against the prostitutes themselves the right course of action? I dont have any answers and i have no idea about why men would want to use prostitutes but surelybetter controls would mean its a less easy environment for a killer like this to operate in, he would find it much more difficult to just "pick a girl up" off the streets and his anonymity is less likely to be assured.
Of course when you read the history of these poor girls there is one common demnominator - drugs. Their need for drugs is such that despite the alarm they still need to get money and therefore they need to be on the streets. Does the problem not lie in a two fold approach? deal witht he drug and safety issue. Goodness knows how you do that
j4bberw0ck
13-Dec-06, 18:14
Do you really think that legalising prostitution will stop this type of murder?
I don't believe legalising prostitution would change anything. What might would be legalising all drugs and putting them on a par with tobacco and alcohol, on sale from suitably licensed premises with the Government taking taxes on sales.
The 5 murdered are all known to have been prostitutes, and at least 4 are known to have been drug addicts with expensive heroin and crack cocaine habits to support; that's why they turned to prostitution in the first place.
If the government controls the price and the manufacture of drugs, and the sale, then you take crime out of it and the profits which dealers in illegal drugs want to earn to compensate them for their risk and to fund the next BMW X5 plus bling.
And all you lovely folk (and, statistically, there'll be a goodly proportion of people on this board who qualify) who think occasional cannabis use is harmless and a bit of fun might want to think about their encouragement of a trade which put these girls on the street in the first place.
I don't believe legalising prostitution would change anything. What might would be legalising all drugs and putting them on a par with tobacco and alcohol, on sale from suitably licensed premises with the Government taking taxes on sales.
And all you lovely folk (and, statistically, there'll be a goodly proportion of people on this board who qualify) who think occasional cannabis use is harmless and a bit of fun might want to think about their encouragement of a trade which put these girls on the street in the first place.
Sorry friend, but that doesn't add up. The government would have to set a low price to corner the market and that would make drugs more accessible to all. That would encourage more occasional use and start more people off.
This is not good in any way. These poor families will be going through hell at the moment...
I hope when and if they find the killer that he/she will never be seen again..
My thoughts are all out to those familes..!!
Well said Orger. No matter what we all feel about prostitution, drugs, police or even the murderer himself. let us not forget these victims were all some-ones daughter and i for one cannot even begin to imagine what their families are going through at this time. My heart goes out to them.
but surelybetter controls would mean its a less easy environment for a killer like this to operate in, he would find it much more difficult to just "pick a girl up" off the streets and his anonymity is less likely to be assured.
I think it will work in theory but not in practice for one reason...AIDS/HIV.
If a system of prostitution is to be regulated then AIDS prevention must be part of the trade's safety. As has been observed on the continent, prostitutes can and do pick up AIDS through their own drug habits or through the regulated prostitution. Once they acquire it then they are out on their ear and outwith the protection of the system. Those girls will just carry on being prostitutes but outside the regulations. So we are just shifting people out of this glorious 'safe environment' that we all want in theory. Once outside the system then they will become victims to all sorts of extra crime. The net effect will be that HIV negative prostitutes will be protected from the sort of predatorial maniacs that are responsible for the Ipswich murders and the HIV positive ones aren't. Therefore murders like this will always happen as there will be plenty of girls who fall off the system.
A system like that is open to accusations that the Government is failing to protect those that are considered to be on a death sentence anyway. I would hate to see that happen.
j4bberw0ck
13-Dec-06, 19:35
Sorry friend, but that doesn't add up. The government would have to set a low price to corner the market
Fact is that synthesising most street drugs is cheap and easy. Production cost isn't the issue, and neither is distribution (also cheap per unit weight). It's the dealer's risk and the lack of choice his customers have that set the price at as much as the market will bear, so for the government to undercut dealers would be easy. The market will bear very high prices through addiction and desperation, hence the women being forced into prostitution - and lets not forget rent boys while we're remembering people forced by drugs into prostitution.
and that would make drugs more accessible to all. That would encourage more occasional use and start more people off.
Yes, it would make drugs more accessible, (just like alcohol and tobacco) but it would also save billions in policing and avoid handing out criminal records to thousands of people who then find their job prospects limited and so have little left to lose. There'll always be people who use drugs - it's been like that for thousands of years, and it's difficult to see why things would be any different; people do drugs because - let's be honest - they like the effects. Trick is in educating people to be aware of the trade-off between health and a short-lived high. You can't put genies back into bottles.
Unless, of course, drug dealers and those caught in possession are routinely shot in the back of the head, which is what the Chinese do, I believe. I suspect that might concentrate peoples' minds a little (in the instant before they stopped concentrating at all).
I think (and I may be wrong) is that Rhegheads point is: where do you stop?
Rheghead made a valid point - he could easily have replaced speeding with heroin use etc etc. If everything was made legal in order for it to happen in a proper environment, there could be bigger problems.
While I've no doubt that prostitutes would be better protected in a 'safe environment', they would be undoubtedly better off if they weren't involved in prostitution at all. Unfortunately, there isn't an easy solution.
As Squidge said, 'Surely there are few girls who choose prostitution as their career path' but something has driven them down that path and it would take a lot to go in the opposite direction.
i dont think prostitution can ever be stopped. i was in a place in turkey last year called ephisis [ how its pronounced] and stood the ruins of a roman brothel that was over 2000yrs old, now there were no problems with drugs then. yet, still there were prostitutes. if brothels were state run, granted junkies &
pimps would not be tolerated. would that not cut down the street walkers.
would,nt the kind of men that use this service not opt for the safer state prostitute rather than run the risk of herpes hiv & god knows what other
diseases go with this trade. undoubtedly there will always be street walker,s
I feel regret for the murders. But perhaps if the police and society took a harder line on prostitution then the girls wouldn't be on the street for attack?
I think we've been through all this arguement before about pros prividing a service and all that but there is nothing that they can't provide which a mag and a fist can't.
The client/prostitute relationship has more to do with power and oppression just like an abuser/victim relationship than it has got anything to do with sexual servicing. Is that what we want?
This sort of murder might possibly not happen in Caithness because of the absence of brothels/red light districts. Do you really think that legalising prostitution will stop this type of murder?I know what u r saying but even if the girls were off the street this nutter would still get his kicks with non working girls also even if there were legal brotals there would still be girls working on the streets simply because they would'nt want to hand over the money they earned to a third party they would also have to pay tax etc.
Even if this person targets Prostitutes if he continues then its likely he will make a mistake and pick on girls that arent prostitutes. Getting girls off the street improves the safety of ALL women - our safety is inextricably linked whether we are working girls or not. No woman is safe in Ipswich just now.
it just brings jack the ripper to mind for me.
but on the thought of prostitution.. a lot of girls are basically children when they are pulled into it.. and can not ever get out..
there are their pimps who litterally own them.
if they try to run, a lot of times they will be hunted down.
beaten and possible killed.
its a common habit to get the girls addicted to drugs so that they will be
less likley to run off..
and a lot of prostitues have children.
they live in continual fear and isolation.
if it can not be stopped.. then it should def. be regulated. I.M.H.O.
i shudder to think what it would be like for me if a daughter.. or a son, fell into prostitiution.
could you imagine your child trapped in this world with no way out?
at the moment there is really no help.. and no doors to go thru.
at least with drugs, you can get help.. there are rehab centers and councillers people you can turn to and talk to.
i really would like to see a system set up to help these people in this proffesion.
also, i hope this sick freak is caught soon.. as to who knows how many he has actually killed and how many more are yet to come!
Why are the tabloids calling the killer the 'Suffolk ripper', when he/she doesn't actually maim the victims?
If they insist on using a snappy nickname it should be the 'Suffolk Strangler' or the 'Ipswich Offswitch' imho.
danc1ngwitch
14-Dec-06, 16:02
sometimes people take wrong turns in life and one thing leads to another, through no fault of their own they end up hooked on drugs one way or another they have different personalities and some find it hard to stop some don't want to. Yes and i do say through no fault of their own drugs is rife and some people do not have the will power to say NO. As for the working girls well nothing wrong with it if its controlled and not on the streets infact some might even make a pest of themsels while on the streets. To many bad things being spread these days... have it controlled and enjoyable for those who want to indulge. after all they probably do some a favour. ( hangs ma head and gives a silent word for the girls xxxxx )
yeah but these girls r junkies so even if it was legal most would still be on the streets because the brothals would'nt have them they have to be drug and decease free.
yeah but these girls r junkies so even if it was legal most would still be on the streets because the brothals would'nt have them they have to be drug and decease free.
Thats very true Woolie, but if the brothels were state run would not the taxes that they take in, fund the brothels.Would they not be cleaner, healthier, better looked after medically & physically, would the average punter not use this type of facility rather than risk kerb crawling & possible arrest.
To take away most of the customers might take away most the streetwalkers ,the pimps & some of the drug dealers .I realise that there will never be a complete answer to the problem. but for the unfortunate girls that ply this trade would it not be safer for them if they had this option.
And for the relatives of the five murdered girls, I give my sincere condolances. May they All find some peace .
percy toboggan
14-Dec-06, 23:41
[quote=The Angel Of Death;172234]These murders are well sad BUT until something is done to protect these working girls i wont be surprised if we don't hear of something else like this in a few months / years time
quote]
THe euphemism 'working girl ' is misplaced. Working girls pay tax. Working girls 'work'. Call a spade a spade.
Prostitutes perform , but more often submit. The 'sex-act' is not work - not if you're doing it right. Not if you're merely going through the motions .Even if you are being paid.
I feel sorry for these women, who lived on the edge of society. Their lives blighted by drugs and by men. Horrible men. Ultimately one or more of these have curtailed it.
A sad , sordid story from the unappealing underbelly of a large town. A large town in a small country being ruined by drugs. Public enemy number 1.
Boozeburglar
14-Dec-06, 23:54
I agree.
To suggest that these women chose to do this would be mad, they are desperate drug addicts.
Probably 80% of the prostitutes working in the UK are facing addiction, and society is letting them down.
The dealers/pimps are getting away with murder. I used to see these women smoking crack in the telephone boxes round Chorlton Street in Manchester when I was coming out of the clubs, and you could see the guys selling them the crack.
Same story in Kings Cross, and everywhere you find a red light district.
I am lucky enough to have worked with some of these women and found they are generally optimistic people just facing insurmountable problems. The sooner legislation is passed to get them off the street and actionis taken to loosen the grip of drugs on them, and thus their puppetmasters, the sooner we can live in a society where people operating outside of the mainstream are not forced to become part of the sewage.
i was reading about this on yahoo i think it is sad that those girls got murderd *shudder* wouldent like to be in there familys shoes right now must be feeling awful
With one exception the laws with respect to Prostitution started in the Victorian Era. To put it bluntly they were nothing more than an attempt to hide it away and to treat the women involved as some kind of Moral Deviant. Unfortunately, even in this day and age, that is a widespread attitude that still persists.
There is no law against a woman being a Prostitute, the laws covering the various offences surrounding Prostitution are simply restrictions on how it is carried out. All those laws do in their effect is ensure that Prostitutes are put at risk so Society can preen itself by displays of Moral Repugnance.
And if you go to a race track you can drive perfectly legally at speeds well in excess f the National Maximum Speed Limit because you are doing so on Private Premises and not on the Public Highway.
I think the reference to Speed Limits was a very good analogy with respect to the use of private premises by Prostitutes as opposed to the use of Public Highways, a very good analogy indeed.
i was reading about this on yahoo i think it is sad that those girls got murderd *shudder* wouldent like to be in there familys shoes right now must be feeling awfulMe either it is awful for them i feel for them i really do. I hope they catch this monster and soon these poor girls they put their lifes on the line in more ways than one.
Cedric Farthsbottom III
15-Dec-06, 22:35
The Yorkshire Ripper,Peter Sutcliffe was caught because the polis happened to be in the right place at the right time.Prostitutes are always gonna be a prime target cos if their known in a small area,folk are gonna think that every car they go into will be with a punter.All eyewitnesses will think nothing to it,not really realising that it could be a serious case.
All the eyewitnesses in Ipswich now,won't be thinking this when they see a prostitute getting picked up.
In my opinion,I think its someone who has read the stories of serial killers and is out to try and do what their "heroes" got caught for.
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