View Full Version : Drug policy review
weezer 316
15-Oct-12, 13:49
Drug policy turnaround on the cards?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/oct/15/britain-drug-policies
I bloody hope so! biggest disaster in half a century if you ask me.
I don't really understand your post, weezer 316. What do you mean by: "biggest disaster in half a century if you ask me."?
It sounds to me that you think making drugs illegal is the "biggest disaster in half a century."
Is this your view?
It is certainly food for thought. Yes, the war on drugs has been costing us £3 billion per year and nothing to show for it. Bad for the tax payer and to cure what exactly? Death through misuse of drugs? I'm a firm believer that 99% of all deaths relating to drugs are due to accidental misdosage. This could be stopped by marketing the drugs in safe doses and supervised by customs and excise, health regulations etc. If drug users were aware of the strength of what they were taking then that would cut out all of these unintentional deaths.
Drug policy turnaround on the cards?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/oct/15/britain-drug-policies
I bloody hope so! biggest disaster in half a century if you ask me.
Not going to happen... no matter how much money it would save & how much sense it makes they are far to scared of being labelled "Soft on Drugs" & lose voters, most of whom are blissfully unaware of the facts & just buy into the hype.
how much sense it makes they are far to scared of being labelled "Soft on Drugs" & lose voters, most of whom are blissfully unaware of the facts & just buy into the hype.
What's this goop?
Why don't you enlighten me & your fellow beings of this blissfully aware fact of which you speak.
It is certainly food for thought. Yes, the war on drugs has been costing us £3 billion per year and nothing to show for it. Bad for the tax payer and to cure what exactly? Death through misuse of drugs? I'm a firm believer that 99% of all deaths relating to drugs are due to accidental misdosage. This could be stopped by marketing the drugs in safe doses and supervised by customs and excise, health regulations etc. If drug users were aware of the strength of what they were taking then that would cut out all of these unintentional deaths.
There is plenty to show for it. Not every drug user has fallen into a self-willowing pit of darkness. Some people have cleaned up their act & made a life for themselves. & they'll be the first to tell you that it's because of charities & organisations that have helped them through their difficulties.
& whether or not death is through overdose, we are not ready to legalize drugs. Not in this society we're living in.
What's this goop?
Why don't you enlighten me & your fellow beings of this blissfully aware fact of which you speak.
Here's a good place to start... http://www.tdpf.org.uk/ & in particular... http://www.tdpf.org.uk/Tools_For_The Debate.pdf
Here's a good place to start... http://www.tdpf.org.uk/ & in particular... http://www.tdpf.org.uk/Tools_For_The Debate.pdf
This isn't a blissfully aware fact. It is some tripe that some organization is shouting about if their two pennies were shining brightest then they'd be controlling things. What a joke.
I'm still waiting for these facts you spoke off..
how much sense it makes
Why would legalizing drugs make sense?
weezer 316
15-Oct-12, 21:33
Jesus.
Pumpkin, lets forget the multitude of studies that support legalization of many drugs. lets forget hwo much it costs, in montary and human terms to create criminals for things that arent real crimes. Lets put all that aside for just a minute and dwell on this fact shall we....
You an buy Smack from Afghanistan, refined in Iran and trasnported accross the world in Thurso,
You can buy Bolivian and columbian cocaine, shipped via western Africa in Thurso, and I bet I could even cook you crack from it if you wanted.
You cant buy a mcDonalds or a Starbucks , Dominos and even Lidl is squeezed here!
Thats a fact.
If that doesnt betray the utter failure of drug policy in this country nothing will. It literally hasnt even made a dent in supply.
This isn't a blissfully aware fact. It is some tripe that some organization is shouting about if their two pennies were shining brightest then they'd be controlling things. What a joke.
I'm still waiting for these facts you spoke off..
Did you even read it?
For example...
• Drug prohibition is not tough on crime – it is manna from heaven for the Mafia, just as it was during alcohol prohibition.
• Prohibition is ‘a gangsters charter’ - abdicating control of a multi billion pound market in dangerous substances to violent organised criminal networks and unregulated dealers.
• It is organised crime’s single biggest source of income, and continues to grow despite the huge enforcement efforts and hundreds of billions spent on the drug war over a number of decades.
• Legally regulating and controlling currently illegal drugs would collapse the illegal markets and get the drug smugglers and dealers out of this business. If we want to really get tough on the drug dealing gangsters let’s take away their biggest source of revenue and try to collapse the illegal drug business for good.
Care to refute that?
Jesus.
Pumpkin, lets forget the multitude of studies that support legalization of many drugs. lets forget hwo much it costs, in montary and human terms to create criminals for things that arent real crimes. Lets put all that aside for just a minute and dwell on this fact shall we....
You an buy Smack from Afghanistan, refined in Iran and trasnported accross the world in Thurso,
You can buy Bolivian and columbian cocaine, shipped via western Africa in Thurso, and I bet I could even cook you crack from it if you wanted.
You cant buy a mcDonalds or a Starbucks , Dominos and even Lidl is squeezed here!
Thats a fact.
If that doesnt betray the utter failure of drug policy in this country nothing will. It literally hasnt even made a dent in supply.
Jesus.
I'm still waiting for your point here.
Do you want a fact to dwell on?
I've known several people who have overdosed. I see people everyday who are ruined on drugs. People who can barely walk, let alone talk. People who are rake thin. People who speak to themselves aloud walking the streets.
There you go, I gave you a few facts.
& how can I take you seriously anyway? You come on a public forum & tell us that kit in Thurso comes from Afghanistan via Iran. Only to carry on & tell us, quite proudly too, that I can get some Bolivian &/or Colombian ching in Thurso via Western Africa. Then you offer to cook me some crack? Boy, boy, weezer 316, you're quite the chemist aren't you?
That's a fact.
I've known several people who have overdosed. I see people everyday who are ruined on drugs. People who can barely walk, let alone talk. People who are rake thin. People who speak to themselves aloud walking the streets.
There you go, I gave you a few facts.
Yes and I'm convinced that if those drugs were marketed in a discrete safe manner then most of your friends would be still alive today to tell us how bad drugs are for their health.
Care to refute that?
If you believe that Alrock, then your head is fuzzed from weezer's home made crack.
eg.
How does this organization know that drugs are the biggest income of organized crime? Plus how do they know that in this recession, their profits are getting higher?
You only mention the purchasing of drugs from a criminalized source. Lets say your team get their way & drugs are legalized to their liking.
How is it going to improve things for you, I, or the rest of the general public?
Yes and I'm convinced that if those drugs were marketed in a discrete safe manner then most of your friends would be still alive today to tell us how bad drugs are for their health.
You tell an obese person, "stop eating those cakes".
See my point?
weezer 316
15-Oct-12, 21:56
hahaha! you dont see what Im saying? You honestly cannot see what my post means? Or are you ignoring it? Which one is it? Ill explain it is simpler terms if you want......
My mother was an alcoholic, in full time care at 46 and will be for the rest of her life. My dad died before I got to meet him and alcohol abuse was the biggest part of it. Should alcohol be banned? I think not, do you? and if not why not, it ruins way more people than say ectasy and cannabis and thats enough to ban them......
You tell an obese person, "stop eating those cakes".
See my point?
Ah I understand, you are comparing drug misuse with eating cake.
hahaha! you dont see what Im saying? You honestly cannot see what my post means? Or are you ignoring it? Which one is it? Ill explain it is simpler terms if you want......
My mother was an alcoholic, in full time care at 46 and will be for the rest of her life. My dad died before I got to meet him and alcohol abuse was the biggest part of it. Should alcohol be banned? I think not, do you? and if not why not, it ruins way more people than say ectasy and cannabis and thats enough to ban them......
Aye that's a good shout for putting the cork on alcohol for good. Plus, lets stub out cigarette's while we're here too.
What your post means? Why don't you start again, because your last posts were no speeches.
Ah I understand, you are comparing drug misuse with eating cake.
If someone wants something bad enough, they'll get it. No matter what the price may be. & I'm not talking financially either. If you "control" something - in this case drugs - that doesn't automatically make a person's usage limited.
An addict (whether drugs, alcohol, food, anything) will always find a way to get MORE.
weezer 316
15-Oct-12, 22:08
Right.....from the top. All together now.....
prohibitions goal is just that. Prohibit availibility of said substances.
Still with me?
You can get this highly prohibited stuff, from warzones in central asia and halfway up the andes mountains, that's prohibited, in a small town about 6000 miles away.
You follow this no?
The economics of this very prohibition has made its PROFITABLE to do this....
Thergo...your policy has been a complete and total utter failure. You can spin it, ignore it, argue any amount of moralisic nonsense you want, but its afiled massively by any measure you want to put in place.
So....wouldnt you change that policy?? Can you name ANY other govt policy that has failed so consistently? I mean the drug trade has flourished! Literally flourished under these conditions
rich62_uk
15-Oct-12, 22:18
I dont think that drugs should be made legal however I do feel that the current policy needs looking at as it really isnt doing too well.
Right.....from the top. All together now.....
prohibitions goal is just that. Prohibit availibility of said substances.
Still with me?
You can get this highly prohibited stuff, from warzones in central asia and halfway up the andes mountains, that's prohibited, in a small town about 6000 miles away.
You follow this no?
The economics of this very prohibition has made its PROFITABLE to do this....
Thergo...your policy has been a complete and total utter failure. You can spin it, ignore it, argue any amount of moralisic nonsense you want, but its afiled massively by any measure you want to put in place.
So....wouldnt you change that policy?? Can you name ANY other govt policy that has failed so consistently? I mean the drug trade has flourished! Literally flourished under these conditions
You're a patient chap, taking me on a step-by-step guided tour of your election bid.
My policy? I don't have a policy. So I haven't failed on anything.
What would I change? I'd throw every junkie (that didn't want help) into Tasmania & let you all at it hammer & tong, & let everyone else get on with it. After all, the only change of policy you wish for is to make your smack legal. So we can therefore presume that your local knowledge is up-to-spec for one reason only [disgust]
Addiction = Mental Weakness
What would I change? I'd throw every junkie (that didn't want help) into Tasmania & let you all at it hammer & tong, & let everyone else get on with it.
Addiction = Mental Weakness
We have a empty rock in the mouth of the Forth, Mey Island, where I would put all the junkies and stoners,Tasmania is too nice a place.
....After all, the only change of policy you wish for is to make your smack legal. So we can therefore presume that your local knowledge is up-to-spec for one reason only [disgust]
From that comment can I presume that in your opinion, anybody who supports the legalisation & quality control of currently illegal drugs must be a junkie themselves to even harbour such an opinion?
Do you know what - the compassion fairly oozes out of this board at some times. Weezer i absolutely agree with you - the drug policy today has failed and is failing again and again. It is not only failing users, it is failing those of us who are burgled mugged and robbed to provide the funds for people to buy the drugs they need and it is failing the vulnerable people that the evil pushers target with their brand of blessed escape.
By prohibiting Drugs the law creates the market for evil, wicked and greedy criminals to make massive massive amounts of money out of the misery of others. At the moment the drug policy is not working and we are not even seeing politicians have the discussion about how to start to improve things. If we are truly going to address the issue of the abuse of drugs then we have to start to discuss leglalisation as an option - if we dont its like driving down a road looking for something and never looking on the left hand side. Its madness - we may not want to go there but we need to examine ALL the options for trying to address the problems our society has with illegal drugs.
weezer 316
16-Oct-12, 07:41
You're a patient chap, taking me on a step-by-step guided tour of your election bid.
My policy? I don't have a policy. So I haven't failed on anything.
What would I change? I'd throw every junkie (that didn't want help) into Tasmania & let you all at it hammer & tong, & let everyone else get on with it. After all, the only change of policy you wish for is to make your smack legal. So we can therefore presume that your local knowledge is up-to-spec for one reason only [disgust]
Addiction = Mental Weakness
Righ. Forgetting YOUR policy, do you not agree hat this one has failed? I did ask for an example of one thats failed as much as this one and you ignored it?
I can presume you feel its ok to lock people up in hellholes for "mental weakness". Where do you stop? Do you drink tea? Coffee? What about any alcohol? Chocolate? And im not saying your addiceted to any mind....
Thing is most governments and politicians don't base policy on facts but on knee jerk reactions and public feeling so I wouldn't hold my breath on there being any change in drug policy. Remember David Nutt?
I don't frequently nor regularly take drugs or alcohol, though I've tried both so I have no personal interest in what I'm about to say. That being said tobacco, alcohol, some legal drugs and prescription medications are far more dangerous that some 'illegal' drugs. You're average reactionary on the street refuses to hear this argument though and instead chooses to demonise those who take drugs.
There's also something to be said for the money wasted on the numerous harmless drug users who are incarcerated or prosecuted, I'm not talking about dealers or people who commit other crimes. All of the drug users I know hold down average to decent jobs, are well balanced and have never done anything wrong.
The lost tax revenue from making drugs legal and regulating them is something to consider also.
From that comment can I presume that in your opinion, anybody who supports the legalisation & quality control of currently illegal drugs must be a junkie themselves to even harbour such an opinion?
From that comment I can presume that you never read all of my - or weezer 316's - post. I don't believe for one second that everyone who wants drugs legalized is a junkie.
Do you know what - the compassion fairly oozes out of this board at some times. Weezer i absolutely agree with you - the drug policy today has failed and is failing again and again. It is not only failing users, it is failing those of us who are burgled mugged and robbed to provide the funds for people to buy the drugs they need and it is failing the vulnerable people that the evil pushers target with their brand of blessed escape.
By prohibiting Drugs the law creates the market for evil, wicked and greedy criminals to make massive massive amounts of money out of the misery of others. At the moment the drug policy is not working and we are not even seeing politicians have the discussion about how to start to improve things. If we are truly going to address the issue of the abuse of drugs then we have to start to discuss leglalisation as an option - if we dont its like driving down a road looking for something and never looking on the left hand side. Its madness - we may not want to go there but we need to examine ALL the options for trying to address the problems our society has with illegal drugs.
If all options are needing to be looked at, legalizing drugs really has to be the last resort. It's easy from someone outside looking in saying that this, that & the next thing has to be done, but in reality, it can't happen. We are thinking people, we have laws & Government for a reason. Sometimes I don't agree with a particular law, but I realize - in the long run - where it's taking us. What its goal is. This is the most sensitive subject out there as been humans, we should be free to do/take what we wish. However, if you've seen someone freak out, totally flip out taking drugs, then I'm sure your opinion would change.
Righ. Forgetting YOUR policy, do you not agree hat this one has failed? I did ask for an example of one thats failed as much as this one and you ignored it?
I can presume you feel its ok to lock people up in hellholes for "mental weakness". Where do you stop? Do you drink tea? Coffee? What about any alcohol? Chocolate? And im not saying your addiceted to any mind....
What are you on about man? I said that I do not have a policy.
So what exactly has failed? That some gangster has beaten you to the punch? If you're wanting to melt your veins, why don't you move to Amsterdam? Vietnam even?
I can presume - so we're on the right path - that we're not talking about cannabis here. I'm talking about the drugs you previously mentioned. Heroin & Cocaine. Even some dirty drugs such as MDMA & Speed.
The "light" drug - cannabis - needs to be treated with respect also. I've dealt with people literally freaking out with this drug, which means that not everybody is as of yet is ready for such exploitation. Hence, why there's a law limiting it's use. Some people aren't ready for it!
You mention "hell hole". Ofcourse it's a bloody hell hole. They're going cold turkey! I feel it's more than fine for someone going a month in an institution to turn their life around & for that I respect them. I've got a pal that works for a charity. He's a furniture maker/restorer. & this charity takes recovering addicts, gives them a skill, so they can find work. Money well spent!
http://news.uk.msn.com/socialvoices/blogpost.aspx?post=0f358124-02bd-430b-833b-011cdc08befa&_nwpt=1
I found this article here which seems to support both our views. It tells us how certain clinics have aided those in need. & it explains how much money seems to going to waste. For this they're calling for the law to be reviewed for "light" drug possession. ie. If you're caught with pot, then you're fine will be pennies.
Addiction = Mental WeaknessHmmm, that solves it all then doesn't it. Mental Weakness.
So what do we do with all the mentally weak people, you know, the smokers, drinkers, gamblers, gamers, petrolheads, sex addicts, sports fanatics, keep fit addicts, peeps with eating disorders, those with OCD, religious folk and who knows what other addictions you can add to the list.
Fire up the Gas ovens??
What about those that end up addicted to prescription drugs that have been prescribed by their doctor. We just write them off as mentally weak junkies too?
Even when they carry on with their lives, working and being productive in society, but no, they are weak minded smack heads that deserve throwing to the dogs?
Methinks the first step is to understand addiction.
Then to understand how the worst end of the spectrum captures people into drug abuse.
And then maybe to try and understand the effects that addiction has on the body and mind (those of strong and weak minds) when left without their 'drug' or trying to come off it.
rich62_uk
16-Oct-12, 10:16
Once again I agree with you Phill, the way it was worded got to me too as you can have an addictive personality which in itself is a mental diagnosis. Calling it a weakness is wrong.
Hmmm, that solves it all then doesn't it. Mental Weakness.
So what do we do with all the mentally weak people, you know, the smokers, drinkers, gamblers, gamers, petrolheads, sex addicts, sports fanatics, keep fit addicts, peeps with eating disorders, those with OCD, religious folk and who knows what other addictions you can add to the list.
Fire up the Gas ovens??
What about those that end up addicted to prescription drugs that have been prescribed by their doctor. We just write them off as mentally weak junkies too?
Even when they carry on with their lives, working and being productive in society, but no, they are weak minded smack heads that deserve throwing to the dogs?
Methinks the first step is to understand addiction.
Then to understand how the worst end of the spectrum captures people into drug abuse.
And then maybe to try and understand the effects that addiction has on the body and mind (those of strong and weak minds) when left without their 'drug' or trying to come off it.
You speak like every drug user takes smack & is therefore a junkie. I think you need to do some homework on the subject before you throw your tuppence worth in. Keep in mind here that Doctors will give a dying patient Morphine, yet you think we should be making this readily available?
If feelings are so strong about legalizing drugs (which drugs are you wanting legalized? all of them?) why don't you work in a clinic for say 3-6 months? Just do some volunteer work. Watch these addicts in their day to day lives, ask them what their goals/ambitions are. Watch them as their muscle tissue rots before you & watch their teeth rot.
Work in a clinic for the said time, & then lets see if these opinions are still the same.
addiction=mental weakness=crime=hang from a gibbet :roll: :lol:
addiction=mental weakness=crime=hang from a gibbet :roll: :lol:
What does this mean? I presume this means that you're going to volunteer to work in a clinic? After all, you're a "firm believer" that a whopping 99% of drug deaths are through overdose. Maybe your foreseeing abilities can save 99% of people.
What an absurd percentage, btw. Maybe 1% of these folk don't realize what strength they're taking, but certainly the other 98% know full well what they're taking!
...After all, you're a "firm believer" that a whopping 99% of drug deaths are through overdose....
Most drug (heroin) deaths are caused by the likes of collapsed veins, septicaemia, other infection, etc which are caused by the impurities (stuff it's been cut with) in unregulated street drugs. Bring these under the same sort of regulations & quality control that currently exists for alcohol & a lot of the problems will be vastly reduced.
Also... in the long run you would be helping the countries that many of these drugs originate from by turning it into a legitimate trade that could be wrestled back from the drug cartels that currently control it.
Maybe 1% of these folk don't realize what strength they're taking, but certainly the other 98% know full well what they're taking!
If what your claiming is true then regulation will stop all that happening, afterall, all the damage is caused in that 1%
It is certainly food for thought. Yes, the war on drugs has been costing us £3 billion per year and nothing to show for it. Bad for the tax payer and to cure what exactly? Death through misuse of drugs? I'm a firm believer that 99% of all deaths relating to drugs are due to accidental misdosage. This could be stopped by marketing the drugs in safe doses and supervised by customs and excise, health regulations etc. If drug users were aware of the strength of what they were taking then that would cut out all of these unintentional deaths.
I think you will find that most drug deaths are violent and ugly but usually in someone elses country.
Most drug (heroin) deaths are caused by the likes of collapsed veins, septicaemia, other infection, etc which are caused by the impurities (stuff it's been cut with) in unregulated street drugs. Bring these under the same sort of regulations & quality control that currently exists for alcohol & a lot of the problems will be vastly reduced.
Also... in the long run you would be helping the countries that many of these drugs originate from by turning it into a legitimate trade that could be wrestled back from the drug cartels that currently control it.
The bit I highlighted sounds like your Wonderland possibly? I don't know what rabbit holes you're looking down, but there's no fairy tale ending. Can you see the Afghans bowing down to anyone? I don't think so pal...
Also, you state that most drug deaths are to do with poor quality drugs. What crap. Take a look in the big cities. Aberdeen, Dundee, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Manchester, Liverpool, London - heck, even Paris has among Europe's heaviest Heroin scene's. Very rarely is there a poor quality drug. People will go without food for days in order to purchase the best.
If what your claiming is true then regulation will stop all that happening, afterall, all the damage is caused in that 1%
I can't see how regulation will stop this. There's always a way to get more. Can't you see that? If anyone wants cheap booze or cheap fags, the Barras market is the place to go.
There's always a way to get more.
What damage are you speaking off?
weezer 316
16-Oct-12, 20:43
I can't see how regulation will stop this. There's always a way to get more. Can't you see that? If anyone wants cheap booze or cheap fags, the Barras market is the place to go.
There's always a way to get more.
What damage are you speaking off?
jesus! most fo what you speak on this is nonsense and contradictory, but to then say this is pure lunacy! YIts already freely available in places like Thurso as I pointed out 3 times to you! The only people who dont take it is the ones who dont want to. that much is obvious!
jesus! most fo what you speak on this is nonsense and contradictory, but to then say this is pure lunacy! YIts already freely available in places like Thurso as I pointed out 3 times to you! The only people who dont take it is the ones who dont want to. that much is obvious!
I'm not Jesus. I may be the Messiah but I'm not called Jesus.
I just can't take you seriously. You can't even spell man. I mean, how are you getting your point across that you've got a clear vision so lets all get high? You're not. You're proving to me that you're uneducated & that you really haven't thought this through. You're jumping on your high horse getting all excited that you may be able to get your hands on your precious kit, legally. Why don't you move to a country where it is legal? Go to Amsterdam, go to Vietnam, go to Afghanistan & help them with their crop. I'm delighted that your dirty heroin is illegal & I for one would seek to see that it stays that way.
Volunteer in a clinic for 6 months. If your opinions haven't changed by then, then get a group together & appeal that drugs should be legalized. Take it to Parliament. What is stopping you? Your lack of education? Get a spell check on your computer so you can print a few wee leaflets out to get smack legalized. I'm sure you'll get laughed out of Parliament!
I'm hardly speaking nonsense nor am I contradicting myself, & that post you speak off was anything but lunacy. You're the lunatic stating, again, for a third time apparently, what kind of heroin is available in Thurso & how readily available it is.
You really are the finest example of a Pleb I think I've come across. Well done.
You speak like every drug user takes smack & is therefore a junkie. I think you need to do some homework on the subject before you throw your tuppence worth in. Keep in mind here that Doctors will give a dying patient Morphine, yet you think we should be making this readily available?
Which is why I pointed out that there are people addicted to doctor prescribed medication, I'm well aware of different types of drug use and that it doesn't all involve smack.
I was questioning your statement about mental weakness.
If feelings are so strong about legalizing drugs (which drugs are you wanting legalized? all of them?) why don't you work in a clinic for say 3-6 months? Just do some volunteer work. Watch these addicts in their day to day lives, ask them what their goals/ambitions are. Watch them as their muscle tissue rots before you & watch their teeth rot.
Work in a clinic for the said time, & then lets see if these opinions are still the same.
I don't actually know what drugs I would want legalized, if any. However some sensible debate based on reasoned facts needs to be had about addictions rather than perpetuate Daily Mail myths and have policy drawn from them.
As I say, understanding addiction is a start.
linnie612
16-Oct-12, 21:28
pumkin - take a chill pill ....
pumkin - take a chill pill ....Legal one, of course!
Drug policy turnaround on the cards?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/oct/15/britain-drug-policies
I bloody hope so! biggest disaster in half a century if you ask me.
Yes, I agree.
It would be good to see some answers on this thread as to how the problem could be tackled but I doubt that will happen.
weezer 316
16-Oct-12, 21:36
I have studying to do but this calls for a response.....I refuse to belive you cant see the holes in your own points.
Firstly, you contradict yourself on umpteen occasions. Statements like "Maybe 1% of these folk don't realize what strength they're taking, but certainly the other 98% know full well what they're taking!" is so obviously wrong, because by default is a black market and you dont have a clue what your getting, let alone what strength! Now do you not recognize the utterly obvious contradiction in what you say and the reality of the situation?
Secondly, you tell us to volunteer at a clinic. As I said I was brought up by an alcohoic single mother. Im acutely aware of the massive damage mind bending drugs do. The issue wasnt drink or its availability. If they made it illegal my mum would simply have went to the black market. Vis a vis every prohibited drug going now. You get it? probably not, maybe thats why you have a line so at odds with reality in the first place.
Thirdly, in the most stupid post I have seen in donkies and I have seen a few, you comment your mate for turning his life around buy getting rid of his addiction. You, amazingly, dont seem to see the contradiction between him having a chance to do that and the fact you will quite gladly have had him branded a criminal in the first place and possibly cost him any future chance of a job at all!?!?! His demand is what fed supply.
And lastly, you talk about seeing somoene "flip out" on drugs. have you ever been out in a Friday or saturday night in any half populated part of this country? Pick 100 fights. 99 from the 100 will be drink fuelled and you know it. The only attacking tthat someone on pills will do is attack you with cuddles and stupid dance moves!
Now do you Drink tea/coffee/ever drank alcohol/smoked? Have you EVER done any of these things? Ever.
John Little
16-Oct-12, 21:56
Yes, I agree.It would be good to see some answers on this thread as to how the problem could be tackled but I doubt that will happen.
I also agree. There may be some good answers.
Weezer has one of the clearest and most radical minds on this forum and he thinks deeply about things - a pleasure to read and always a challenge.
I agree with what he has said so far and look forward to reading more.
I'm not Jesus. I may be the Messiah but I'm not called Jesus. <snip>
I just can't take you seriously. You can't even spell man.....
Apart from the negatives, what's your best suggestion/plan as regards a comprehensive, workable Drug Policy which could work in Scotland?
I have studying to do but this calls for a response.....I refuse to belive you cant see the holes in your own points.
Firstly, you contradict yourself on umpteen occasions. Statements like "Maybe 1% of these folk don't realize what strength they're taking, but certainly the other 98% know full well what they're taking!" is so obviously wrong, because by default is a black market and you dont have a clue what your getting, let alone what strength! Now do you not recognize the utterly obvious contradiction in what you say and the reality of the situation?
Secondly, you tell us to volunteer at a clinic. As I said I was brought up by an alcohoic single mother. Im acutely aware of the massive damage mind bending drugs do. The issue wasnt drink or its availability. If they made it illegal my mum would simply have went to the black market. Vis a vis every prohibited drug going now. You get it? probably not, maybe thats why you have a line so at odds with reality in the first place.
Thirdly, in the most stupid post I have seen in donkies and I have seen a few, you comment your mate for turning his life around buy getting rid of his addiction. You, amazingly, dont seem to see the contradiction between him having a chance to do that and the fact you will quite gladly have had him branded a criminal in the first place and possibly cost him any future chance of a job at all!?!?! His demand is what fed supply.
And lastly, you talk about seeing somoene "flip out" on drugs. have you ever been out in a Friday or saturday night in any half populated part of this country? Pick 100 fights. 99 from the 100 will be drink fuelled and you know it. The only attacking tthat someone on pills will do is attack you with cuddles and stupid dance moves!
Now do you Drink tea/coffee/ever drank alcohol/smoked? Have you EVER done any of these things? Ever.
You started, you finished, yet there's nothing in the middle.
Nothing, in this post, adds up. There's no holes in my points anywhere. You're first, second & third statement above is beyond laughable
Work in a clinic, then start a campaign. Instead of handing out baseball caps, hand out needles instead.
How long have you been studying this subject for? I've got close to 30 years experience.
Apart from the negatives, what's your best suggestion/plan as regards a comprehensive, workable Drug Policy which could work in Scotland?
I don't believe there can be a workable drug policy in Scotland, the Scots are a race who are easily addicted to things such as alcohol, tobacco, fatty foods, the list goes on and on.
I would lighten the sentences for those caught with a small amount of cannabis, but would bring the full weight of the law on the suppliers and growers.The use of other class A drugs such as heroin, cocaine and that ilk I would throw away the key on those who are caught using and supplying.
I've got close to 30 years experience.So what would you suggest we do with the mentally weak?
Apart from the negatives, what's your best suggestion/plan as regards a comprehensive, workable Drug Policy which could work in Scotland?
I honestly, honestly can't see a way. & because of that, things can't change. Not for the foreseeable future at least. Rather than jump in & say this & that, it needs to be thought over carefully & thoroughly before any decision is made. Certainly, to make most of these drugs legal is insanity, particularly chemical/man made drugs.
I think it's easy to think in terms of legalization when you're in a county like Caithness. Everyone tends to know everyone & in a sense everyone is safe. But when you're in a scheme, say in Pollock in Glasgow, then you're in a war zone. That's when opinions of legalization will change. I'm certain of it.
So what would you suggest we do with the mentally weak?
Mental Weakness - exactly what it says on the tin.
If a boxer's left arm is injured, he's left physically weak. In order to get him back into fighting shape, he needs to be patient, & build up the power in his arm again.
Simple.
If I want to lose weight, I cut back on cakes etc.
Simple.
Mental Weakness - Addressing what it is that is weak, once addressed, sort it.
Simple.
But drugs - heroin & cocaine - are so painfully addictive that i can't begin to start as to what these people are thinking. One guy I knew in the late 90's was recovering from speed addiction. His eyes were glazey red & I asked him about this. He went on to tell me that he stared at the sun for 3 days straight, begging God to give him the strength to stop using. He's been clean since 1996 by the way, thanks to the clinic he went to.
I honestly, honestly can't see a way. & because of that, things can't change. Not for the foreseeable future at least. Rather than jump in & say this & that, it needs to be thought over carefully & thoroughly before any decision is made. Certainly, to make most of these drugs legal is insanity, particularly chemical/man made drugs.
I think it's easy to think in terms of legalization when you're in a county like Caithness. Everyone tends to know everyone & in a sense everyone is safe. But when you're in a scheme, say in Pollock in Glasgow, then you're in a war zone. That's when opinions of legalization will change. I'm certain of it.
Ok, many thanks for your reply.
I'm not sure you're aware how much of a concern the use of drugs is in our Community.
I'm not sure you're aware how much of a concern the use of drugs is in our Community.
Are you, or anyone else concerned about the use of drugs in Caithness?
We should take the power away from the dealer. Most addicts commit crime to fund thier habits. Methodone should be banned it is a far more addictive then Heroin, and instead of the dose being reduced. It is usually increased.
Mental Weakness - exactly what it says on the tin.Mental Weakness - Addressing what it is that is weak, once addressed, sort it.But drugs - heroin & cocaine - are so painfully addictive that i can't begin to start as to what these people are thinking.This is what confuses me, you talk about mental weakness and then say just how addictive these drugs are. It has nothing to do with mental weakness that I can see.
hahaha! you dont see what Im saying? You honestly cannot see what my post means? Or are you ignoring it? Which one is it? Ill explain it is simpler terms if you want......
My mother was an alcoholic, in full time care at 46 and will be for the rest of her life. My dad died before I got to meet him and alcohol abuse was the biggest part of it. Should alcohol be banned? I think not, do you? and if not why not, it ruins way more people than say ectasy and cannabis and thats enough to ban them......
Sorry to hear that, and i haven't an answer to it either as you say alcohol is legal. I still say yes ban drugs, but take away the power from the dealer.
Are you, or anyone else concerned about the use of drugs in Caithness?Many people wouldn't have a clue about drug use, abuse or dependency in Caithness or elsewhere. Too busy buying into Daily Mail hysteria to realise that many addicts are their neighbours & friends getting their 'gear' from Tesco's, the corner shop or on prescription from the local chemist.
Many people wouldn't have a clue about drug use, abuse or dependency in Caithness or elsewhere. Too busy buying into Daily Mail hysteria to realise that many addicts are their neighbours & friends getting their 'gear' from Tesco's, the corner shop or on prescription from the local chemist.
I think you are right there Phill. Unless you have been affected by it in some shape or form.
This is what confuses me, you talk about mental weakness and then say just how addictive these drugs are. It has nothing to do with mental weakness that I can see.
It's mental weakness when you want to stop but you can't.
A heroin addict either goes cold turkey in their house or a hospital. By going cold turkey, you're starving mental weakness & feeding mental strength.
It's as if you take great offence that I dare to use the term Mental Weakness. Every single person that has walked this planet has been mentally weak in some way.
....Every single person that has walked this planet has been mentally weak in some way.
Does that include being mentally weak in respect of buying into anti-drug propaganda despite the wealth of evidence that prohibition simply does not work?
Does that include being mentally weak in respect of buying into anti-drug propaganda despite the wealth of evidence that prohibition simply does not work?
What wealth of evidence is this that you speak off?
I've hardly "bought" into anything. If you'd read my posts, you'd see that I've got a lifetime's experience around drugs & addicts. I find it hard to believe that you've got the audacity to say that I've "bought" into an anti-drug propaganda. I've been around these people, their everyday lives, their environments, & there's no way I want drugs made legal.
linnie612
16-Oct-12, 23:56
It's mental weakness when you want to stop but you can't.
A heroin addict either goes cold turkey in their house or a hospital. By going cold turkey, you're starving mental weakness & feeding mental strength.
It's as if you take great offence that I dare to use the term Mental Weakness. Every single person that has walked this planet has been mentally weak in some way.
Utter rubbish - for a serious addiction this isn't recommended any more because of the shock it places on the body.
Does that include being mentally weak in respect of buying into anti-drug propaganda despite the wealth of evidence that prohibition simply does not work?
I personally think those who use and rely on drugs are the mentaly weak. I made a choice many years ago to say No to drugs.
I also spent 33 years as a HM Customs and Excise officer, catching smuggling junkies and helping to shut down drug dens, even shut an opium den in Dundee down, and proud of it.
What wealth of evidence is this that you speak off?
I've hardly "bought" into anything. If you'd read my posts, you'd see that I've got a lifetime's experience around drugs & addicts. I find it hard to believe that you've got the audacity to say that I've "bought" into an anti-drug propaganda. I've been around these people, their everyday lives, their environments, & there's no way I want drugs made legal.
Well... by far the largest bit of evidence is the failed experiment on alcohol prohibition carried out in the USA from 1920 to 1933, that could hardly be described as a success...
You may have a lifetime's experience around the worst aspects drugs & addicts & that may have tinted your view on the whole subject making it hard for you to be subjective on the matter....
You can't base policy on worst case scenarios... That's like someone who works in an A&E department, having seen the worst aspects of motoring through the results of road accidents calling for the return of the days when all motorised vehicles should have someone walking in front of them waving a flag to warn people of the dangers.
I personally think those who use and rely on drugs are the mentaly weak. I made a choice many years ago to say No to drugs.
I also spent 33 years as a HM Customs and Excise officer, catching smuggling junkies and helping to shut down drug dens, even shut an opium den in Dundee down, and proud of it.
Since this discussion has morphed into questioning the state of the contributors mind rather than the issue at hand, then...
Saying Yes to Drugs = Mentally Weak
Saying No to Drugs = Mentally Weak
Judging the situation on it's merits & making an informed decision = Mentally Stable
Utter rubbish - for a serious addiction this isn't recommended any more because of the shock it places on the body.
What utter rubbish. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
It's mental weakness when you want to stop but you can't.A heroin addict either goes cold turkey in their house or a hospital. By going cold turkey, you're starving mental weakness & feeding mental strength.It's as if you take great offence that I dare to use the term Mental Weakness. Every single person that has walked this planet has been mentally weak in some way.Therefore we are all addicts, or will be at some point. However you do make it sound oh so simple, just a matter pulling ourselves together keeping that stiff upper lip when every part of your body is in agony and screaming for release from the pain, your physically & mentally incapable of functioning, shaking, sweating, freezing, too hot and emotionally distraught. But never mind all that, just pull yourself together old chap!
Therefore we are all addicts, or will be at some point. However you do make it sound oh so simple, just a matter pulling ourselves together keeping that stiff upper lip when every part of your body is in agony and screaming for release from the pain, your physically & mentally incapable of functioning, shaking, sweating, freezing, too hot and emotionally distraught. But never mind all that, just pull yourself together old chap!
It seems, that you've got the jist of it here, Phill.
Pull yourself together.
In fact, I couldn't have put it better myself.
It seems, that you've got the jist of it here, Phill.Pull yourself together.In fact, I couldn't have put it better myself.OK, there we have the basis for a forward looking and sustainable drug reduction policy, we just need some films from the Ministry with Mr Cholmondley-Walker telling us to pull ourselves together. Sorted, I'll run that one by Alex Neil.
OK, there we have the basis for a forward looking and sustainable drug reduction policy, we just need some films from the Ministry with Mr Cholmondley-Walker telling us to pull ourselves together. Sorted, I'll run that one by Alex Neil.
This has always been the basis. People have been going cold turkey since the 30's (that's the earliest account I've come across) & I wouldn't be surprised if this was happening long before the 30's.
Go cold turkey in a house, or in a hospital.
rich62_uk
17-Oct-12, 10:38
As I said before an addictive personality is a condition just like Bipolar or Personality disorder, what do you call people with mental illness then Pumkin ? Weak ?
rich62_uk
17-Oct-12, 10:39
Just a thought but are the people who take medication for these conditions drug addicts ?
As I said before an addictive personality is a condition just like Bipolar or Personality disorder, what do you call people with mental illness then Pumkin ? Weak ?
Mental Illness is not the same as Mental Weakness. I can't see how you can compare the two.
rich62_uk
17-Oct-12, 10:43
Did you read all my post ? Addictive personality is a mental illness often going hand in hand with other mental illnesses. Often people who take drugs are also self medicating rather than go see a Dr or they have no idea they actually have a mental illness.
weezer 316
17-Oct-12, 16:16
Pumkin, you have been busted. I paraphrased you so its irrelevant what kind of of bodyswerve you give my last post as its all there.
Now answer my question, have you ever smoked, drank alcohol, tea or coffee. Its really simple.
For the record my studying is the degree Im studying for in Computing and design, nothing to do with drugs, Sorry for the confusion.
Oh, I was also brought up in the milton in Glasgow, as stones throw from Possilpark. Appears I have done all the thing you say would change my mind....
And yet it appears you condtradict yourself again in the muddle of your cluttered thinking. You say legalistion should be the last resort.....then admit you have no idea what more can be done to stop the impact of drugs......but then call for the status quo to be maintained.
You = luddite.
rob murray
17-Oct-12, 16:52
This topic was aired on the Kirsty Wark show yesterday or the day before, an ex long term Glasgow policeman was interviewed, his view, based on a lifetime experience on the street so to speak, was that the legislative approach towards drugs ( model lifted form the US ) has never ever worked nor ever will, he pointed to Portugal where certain drugs were legalised, initially when this process started, certain drug usease increased, but very quickly tailed off, as legalisation was accompanied by an educational approach, once the situation is de politicised, ( the only reason the legislative process continues is fear of losing face with the voting public, themselves influenced by decades of mis information ) people are deemed mature enough to be given access to the facts ( think of fags...everyone knows all the facts behind smoking yet smokers, me included, choose to smoke ! if I get a smoking related illness then I cant be surprised ! ) People should have the information to make informed choices to indulge, cut down on indulgence, stop or not use at all. People should be free to make choices.
The ex policeman now works with a charity body that de mystifies drugs and drug use, he made an interesting point, he delivers talks at to a wide variety of audiences, ( WRI etc !! ) at the start of the talk he asks the audience who is against drug legislation, almost always 100% hands up in support. 45 minutes later after the facts, not the propoganda, is delivered, he asks the audience who is now in favour of legalising...almost always 90 plus % agree. Education, access to true facts, empowers people, sorry I know this is a very emotive subject, but Portagul is but one example of partial legalistion working !
Pumkin, you have been busted. I paraphrased you so its irrelevant what kind of of bodyswerve you give my last post as its all there.
Now answer my question, have you ever smoked, drank alcohol, tea or coffee. Its really simple.
For the record my studying is the degree Im studying for in Computing and design, nothing to do with drugs, Sorry for the confusion.
Oh, I was also brought up in the milton in Glasgow, as stones throw from Possilpark. Appears I have done all the thing you say would change my mind....
And yet it appears you condtradict yourself again in the muddle of your cluttered thinking. You say legalistion should be the last resort.....then admit you have no idea what more can be done to stop the impact of drugs......but then call for the status quo to be maintained.
You = luddite.
All I can do here is laugh with a face palm.
Start a bloody campaign if you feel so damned strongly about this.
weezer 316
17-Oct-12, 17:57
You sure you didnt just faceplant the keyboard in teh first place?!?!
Still havent asnwered my question. Ever drank alcohol? Smoked? Drank tea or coffee?
Poeple liek you are a far bigger danger than drugs. Well, currently illegal drugs that is.
weezer 316
17-Oct-12, 18:04
Sorry to hear that, and i haven't an answer to it either as you say alcohol is legal. I still say yes ban drugs, but take away the power from the dealer.
Right the power rests with dealers, who are often bad people, not because of the drugs but because they are supplying an illegal market. the very act of legislation creates thisblack market thats inst going away just because something is illegal. And you you think the legal status of some substance plays on anyones mind at some drunk party somehwre when offered such stuff then your very much mistaken. every drug I have ever turned down and every drug i have ever seen anyone urn down was simply because they didnt want to take it!
This power also extends to the point where you can put anything in a tablet and sell it. Talcum powder, cement, you name it. Now how on earth can such a situation be worse than someone buy pure, safe ecstacy for a night out? You tell me? The only likely side effect will be to much hugging, literally...and yet these people are criminals.
This topic was aired on the Kirsty Wark show yesterday !
It was the Kaye Adams show " Call Kaye" not Kirsty Wark, do try to get your facts correct.
You sure you didnt just faceplant the keyboard in teh first place?!?!
Still havent asnwered my question. Ever drank alcohol? Smoked? Drank tea or coffee?
Poeple liek you are a far bigger danger than drugs. Well, currently illegal drugs that is.
Look. I can't take you seriously. You're promoting ecstasy on a live forum, yet you can't spell. I mean, come on man. Get a dictionary. How old are you?
Why are you concerned whether I've drank tea or coffee? What has this got to do with you?
I'm a danger to drugs? You cheeky kid.
This is your words;
"Now how on earth can such a situation be worse than someone buy pure, safe ecstacy for a night out? You tell me? The only likely side effect will be to much hugging, literally...and yet these people are criminals."
Remember this lassie?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leah_Betts
You pal, are a creep! You are the danger here, promoting this drug!
weezer 316
17-Oct-12, 19:01
To quote your link....."A subsequent inquest determined that her death was actually not directly due to MDMA consumption, but rather the result of the large quantity of water she had consumed,"
She died from water intoxification. Should we ban water too?? It was printed at the time. I was even in high school when her mum and dad mentioned it to us during their drug awareness tour.
I promote the freedom you have just claimed, to ingest what you like for whatever reason you like. It appears you agree with me.
By the way, getting away from your dogmatic view, have you actually looked up how many people died from ecstacy in say the past year? And most of those are from poisoining of one sort or another...BECAUSE ITS BEING BOUGHT ON A BLACK MARKET!
.......asks the audience who is against drug legislation, almost always 100% hands up in support. 45 minutes later after the facts, not the propoganda, is delivered, he asks the audience who is now in favour of legalising...almost always 90 plus % agree. Education, access to true facts, empowers people, sorry I know this is a very emotive subject, but Portagul is but one example of partial legalistion working !Quite, education based on facts rather than the front page of the Daily Mail et al has to be a good starting point.
rich62_uk
17-Oct-12, 19:01
The thought of one of my children taking a drug legally or illegally fills me with dread but the same is said for alcohol ! If age limits were increased it would give our children time to mature a bit. (I feel the same way with driving)
To quote your link....."A subsequent inquest determined that her death was actually not directly due to MDMA consumption, but rather the result of the large quantity of water she had consumed,"
She died from water intoxification. Should we ban water too?? It was printed at the time. I was even in high school when her mum and dad mentioned it to us during their drug awareness tour.
I promote the freedom you have just claimed, to ingest what you like for whatever reason you like. It appears you agree with me.
By the way, getting away from your dogmatic view, have you actually looked up how many people died from ecstacy in say the past year? And most of those are from poisoining of one sort or another...BECAUSE ITS BEING BOUGHT ON A BLACK MARKET!
To quote you; "The only likely side effect will be to much hugging, literally"
Yet, she's dead [disgust]
However, SIADH (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIADH) caused by the MDMA, reducing her ability to urinate
weezer 316
17-Oct-12, 19:15
And.......Your point please? It may very do some harm.....people like you inhibit that reseach. But seriously. What now? Should we ban all things that can kill you? Should we?
Mind that last drink you had, you shouldn't have been able to in your own words. It should be banned.
=
weezer 316
17-Oct-12, 19:23
To quote you; "The only likely side effect will be to much hugging, literally"
Yet, she's dead [disgust]
yes, only likely side effect will be hugging. I am bang on right. Do you ave ANY evidence to show a more likely side effect?
And.......Your point please? It may very do some harm.....people like you inhibit that reseach. But seriously. What now? Should we ban all things that can kill you? Should we?
Mind that last drink you had, you shouldn't have been able to in your own words. It should be banned.
=
My point please? You can plainly see that there is a problem here!
This lassie was playing with fire, & all those who par-take in such activities are playing with fire also.
And.......Your point please?
I'm disturbed by this, I really am.
It may very do some harm.....people like you inhibit that reseach
Again, due to your lack of education, this does not make sense, but I can just make out what you're getting at.
Now you've admitted that it harms.
I'm really disturbed by your "And.......Your point please?" comment. What you said is disgusting.
yes, only likely side effect will be hugging. I am bang on right. Do you ave ANY evidence to show a more likely side effect?
My God! She's dead! You're arguing that black is white here man!
Do you have ANY evidence?
weezer 316
17-Oct-12, 19:42
You just dont get this do you.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7876425.stm
Good link there. 30 deaths LINKED with ecstasy in 2009. 30. 3 times as many died from horse riding and sniffing glue. Thast from the Head of the UK drugs taskforce.
Now, for once, answer the question. Should we ban horse riding glue and water too? Or just the stuff you dont do you hypocrite. Your going to have to answer at some point and justify it too.
I read somewhere 50 people a year are recorded from dying of loud music. Ban that tooo?????
You just dont get this do you.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7876425.stm
Good link there. 30 deaths LINKED with ecstasy in 2009. 30. 3 times as many died from horse riding and sniffing glue. Thast from the Head of the UK drugs taskforce.
Now, for once, answer the question. Should we ban horse riding glue and water too? Or just the stuff you dont do you hypocrite. Your going to have to answer at some point and justify it too.
I read somewhere 50 people a year are recorded from dying of loud music. Ban that tooo?????
That article seems like it was influenced by an idiot. Oh wait a minute, it was influenced by an idiot! David Nutt to be precise! He was the fool that suggested handing out horse tranquilizers at night clubs. :eek: Yes we all mind David Nutt, didn't your man get sacked there short ago? ;)
As for those figure's, I don't believe it. I simply don't. There is deaths from drugs world over that don't show up as a drug - related death.
Now son, what you don't get is this. If you're influenced by the likes of David Nutt, then I, nor anyone else, is safe in your company. He, along with his disciples, are poisoned with poisonous minds.
Btw, that's a different question you're asking me now. I suggest, for the sake of your studies, to get your facts correct & organize them in a workable manner. As for dying from the loud music comment, I suggest that the material you read you take with a pinch of salt loon.
Now, your previous "And.......Your point please?" comment. I think that's the last straw for me kiddo. I'm sickened.
weezer 316
17-Oct-12, 21:02
Hahahaha!
Whats the weather like up your own backside??
Your nuts. This is the man who was chair of the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs, which advises the governmet on drug policy. A body comprising of professionals who have spent their lives studying the subject.
Then there is you, who has contradicted themselves umpteen times and isnt even aware of the most basic facts around drugs. I would have thought the approach keen to see what harm things do and under what circumstances would appeal to any sane person. Clearly thats no the case with you, who apparently knows better than the reports compiled by the pros who study this stuff for a living. You who has taken alcohol, smoked, drank things with caffeine, and compains when this gets mentioned. Its ok for you to take your mindbending and uvber dangerous drugs, but its not ok for someone else to take mindbending and much safer drugs.....
You must be high!!
This is the man who was chair of the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs, which advises the governmet on drug policy.You who has taken alcohol, smoked, drank things with caffeine, and compains when this gets mentioned. Its ok for you to take your mindbending and uvber dangerous drugs, but its not ok for someone else to take mindbending and much safer drugs.....
Your man, David Nutt, was sacked. Because he recommended kids took horse tranquilizers at night clubs. Better still, he RECOMMENDED that the GOVERNMENT hand these drugs out for FREE! This was in late 2009 early 2010 when we were in the midst of the recession. Don't you know this? :roll: Anyone with AT LEAST half a brain, doesn't take this guy seriously. :lol:
You don't know me to make the assumptions that I partake in anything. Whether it's drinking tea or smoking a cigarette. To make an assumption like this is desperation to support your own thesis.
When you've nothing to grab, you clutch at straws...:roll:
weezer 316
17-Oct-12, 21:20
I know you drink.......hypocrite! Should be in the jail! is a dangerous susbstance thats kile 30 000 people each year! You once advised me to drink port and brandy as a hangover cure.
Now are you going to admit to hypocrisy over YOUR drugs as opposed to other peoples drugs? Or are you not?
I know you drink.......hypocrite! Should be in the jail! is a dangerous susbstance thats kile 30 000 people each year! You once advised me to drink port and brandy as a hangover cure.
Now are you going to admit to hypocrisy over YOUR drugs as opposed to other peoples drugs? Or are you not?
Should be in the jail?
pumkin we need to remember these girls - these victims - s like Emma Caldwell. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4528103.stm
This lassie was coerced onto illegal drugs when she was vulnerable and grieving. She sank into the illegal world of drug dealers and prostitution. Would you have told her to pull herself together? Once caught in this world of dealers and prostitution how does a vulnerable addict pull herself together, get herself in a position to beat drugs safely?
The current system of managing drug users and supply is not working. Drugs continue to be widely available - even in our jails. The money for them is found from crime and prostitution and once addicted many addicts are vulnerable and able to be abused and manipulated by wicked cruel people. We need to look at this from a different angle. Currently none of the political parties will even discuss or consider the issue of legalising drugs.
You make a big play about working in a clinic or looking around the more deprived areas of our inner cities. I dont work in a clinic but I do some work with addicts and the families of addicts and I already said we are failing these people and we will continue to fail them because we refuse to look at all the options for making things better.
weezer 316
18-Oct-12, 13:02
Should be in the jail?
As mentioned, I'm not saying you should be in the jail. But if alcohol, a dangerous mind bending substance by any measure, was illegal you would be a criminal.
That I am sure you agree, would be ludicrous no?
And before you post I will give you fair warning as your not giving this much thought. if you agree with my last sentence you have undermined your whole case again. if you dont your a hypocrite....who has undermined their own case.
And can you clarify why you can take your mind bending and deadly drug legally and I cannot take my equally mind bending and much less deadly drug without being a criminal?
Are you, or anyone else concerned about the use of drugs in Caithness?
If I wasn't concerned I wouldn't have bothered replying.
Are you, or anyone else concerned about the use of drugs in Caithness?
I'm concerned that people of all ages are being criminalised for chilling out at the end of a busy day/week with a couple of spliffs doing relatively little damage to their bodies whilst those chilling out with a 2 litre bottle of super strength cider or those chilling out with a bottle of plonk, doing more damage to their bodies are just left to it.... Let's have a level playing field no matter what your drug of choice may be...
I'm also concerned about the amount of taxpayers money & police time being wasted trying to enforce the unenforceable...
I'm also concerned by the fact that the Police are seen as "The Enemy" by otherwise perfectly law abiding citizens, reducing community support for the Police...
I'm concerned that people of all ages are being criminalised for chilling out at the end of a busy day/week with a couple of spliffs doing relatively little damage to their bodies whilst those chilling out with a 2 litre bottle of super strength cider or those chilling out with a bottle of plonk, doing more damage to their bodies are just left to it.... Let's have a level playing field no matter what your drug of choice may be...
I'm also concerned about the amount of taxpayers money & police time being wasted trying to enforce the unenforceable...
I'm also concerned by the fact that the Police are seen as "The Enemy" by otherwise perfectly law abiding citizens, reducing community support for the Police...
No one is making anyone a criminal. If you choose to break the law you do it to yourself. Don't blame everyone else.
No one is making anyone a criminal. If you choose to break the law you do it to yourself. Don't blame everyone else.
So... picking a random example from history.... Am I correct in thinking that you would say that Oscar Wilde can only blame himself for being imprisoned due to his homosexuality, it had nothing to do with an unjust law?
Besides... as that example demonstrates, you are totally missing the point of my post... I know that if you break the law you are making yourself a criminal, I'm just saying that that particular law is wrong.
Alrock, you said "I'm concerned that people of all ages are being criminalised for chilling out at the end of a busy day/week with a couple of spliffs"
I said "No one is making anyone a criminal. If you choose to break the law you do it to yourself. Don't blame everyone else."
How is that missing the point?
I'm concerned that people of all ages are being criminalised for chilling out at the end of a busy day/week with a couple of spliffs doing relatively little damage to their bodies.
That would be a perfect world would it? What about the proven damage to the brains of cannabis users?
The users of a wee spliff, often pop illegal pills at the same time and drink copious amounts of strong drink as well. Then go and commit horrendous crimes, and when they appear in court the excuse is I was high on drugs and drink.
That would be a perfect world would it? What about the proven damage to the brains of cannabis users? The users of a wee spliff, often pop illegal pills at the same time and drink copious amounts of strong drink as well. Then go and commit horrendous crimes, and when they appear in court the excuse is I was high on drugs and drink.And the damage to people's livers from drink, and the damage to people's lungs from smoking? Both legal, and it's even legal for two people to batter each other until ones a bloody mess on the floor!
If I wasn't concerned I wouldn't have bothered replying.
Moira, if you have a legitimate concern - that is outwith your hands - then you need to report it to the police.
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,2005559,00.html
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,2005559,00.html"while marijuana went from being a secret shared by a small community of hepcats and beatniks in the 1940s and '50s to a rite of passage for some 70% of youth by the turn of the century, rates of schizophrenia in the U.S. have remained flat, or possibly declined."
Interesting!
Smoking (legal cigarettes) to Cancer link:
http://www.mrc.ac.uk/Achievementsimpact/Storiesofimpact/Smoking/index.htm
"while marijuana went from being a secret shared by a small community of hepcats and beatniks in the 1940s and '50s to a rite of passage for some 70% of youth by the turn of the century, rates of schizophrenia in the U.S. have remained flat, or possibly declined."
Interesting!
Smoking (legal cigarettes) to Cancer link:
http://www.mrc.ac.uk/Achievementsimpact/Storiesofimpact/Smoking/index.htm
OK smart-arse;
http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/schizophrenia/content/article/10168/2017327
& here's another report discussing how cannabis can affect teenager brains from developing.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-squeaky-wheel/201208/study-finds-regular-marijuana-use-damages-teenage-brains-0
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-squeaky-wheel/201208/study-finds-regular-marijuana-use-damages-teenage-brains-0
This is the first two paragraphs to the above link;
Teenagers love to complain their parents are too critical of marijuana and that little harm can come from smoking pot. However, a new study suggests that teenagers who use marijuana regularly are at greater risk for long-term brain damage and declines in both IQ and cognitive functioning years later.
Daily cannabis use is on the rise among adolescents who are now smoking marijuana at younger ages than ever before, many of them on a daily basis. This rise in marijuana use is caused in part because most teenagers do not believe that smoking marijuana is harmful to their health. However, a new 38 year-long study might make them and their parents think again.
rob murray
19-Oct-12, 12:35
This is the first two paragraphs to the above link;
Teenagers love to complain their parents are too critical of marijuana and that little harm can come from smoking pot. However, a new study suggests that teenagers who use marijuana regularly are at greater risk for long-term brain damage and declines in both IQ and cognitive functioning years later.
Daily cannabis use is on the rise among adolescents who are now smoking marijuana at younger ages than ever before, many of them on a daily basis. This rise in marijuana use is caused in part because most teenagers do not believe that smoking marijuana is harmful to their health. However, a new 38 year-long study might make them and their parents think again.
Exactly my point, education, education, education, education, present the clear facts so people can make informed choices. Lets cut to the chase here and tackle the hypocrisy head on, cannabis / marijuana / pot...call it what you want, useage accelerated in the late 60's becomming the drug of choice for the post beat society, middle class, semi drop outs or "freaks" ( look at MP's who attended univeristy in the 69's / 70's...they were in drug cultures, and how many didnt inhale eh lol lol ) as the term was. In this time period very little working class kids smoked dope ( amphetimine usage though was rappant )...point of fact late 60's / 70's working class teen cults, skinheads, suedeheads, bootboys etc, had tremendous fun noising up the hairies / freaks / dopers. In the late 70's usage spread to the wider population, why...dont really know, maybe it became acceptable for working class kids to smoke a bit of dope. Undoubtably what happened next is down to economics, a world wide shortage of cannibis created a gap in the "market" filled by very cheap heroin, which existed in abudance, hence a certain percentage of dope smokers turned to heroin, after all, what harm was caused by smoking it ( apart from almost certain addictation ) !! Couple the rise of heroin usage ( and severe chronic addications ) amongst a wider clientel ( working class ) factor in a massive societal change ( unemployment, de industrialisation etc ) and by the early /mid 80's a huge drugs problem existed then and now ( watch Trainspotting if you dont get it ! ) . Whether people like it or not, drug useage has passed from an esoteric experience ( man ! ) to, in some quarters of society, the equivalent of getting blootered, users see no difference and the drugs trade / market, as it is illegal, is run by criminals ( now how many real criminal overlords get sent down ?? its usually the people way down the chain of command that get the large sentences )
Time Lines
Early 60's - mid 70's : pot smoking was the preserve of the beatnik class / freaks, smoking to enhance creativity / appreciation of creativity and as part of their lifstyle
Mid - late 70's : wider useage spreading amongst the great un washed : smoking to get smashed
Late 70's - mid 80's : wide spread take up of herion
Late 80's : ecatasy useage sprung from "rave culture " and became part of the fabric of youth society
90,s to date ( over 20 years ) wide spread useage of a multitiude of drugs cross "society" taking drugs to get smashed
Question : why the need to get smashed on drugs, is it tied to wider acceptance of binge drinking, as the days of taking drugs to enhance / complement a lifestyle are a very very distant memory ?
rob murray
19-Oct-12, 12:57
Above post, cut to the quick, the genie is out the bottle and nobody can get it back in !! Educate, provide the facts, create higher aspirations and then maybe, just maybe useage will fall.
rob murray
19-Oct-12, 14:46
Found this report by Stirling University, makes good reading as regards the evolution of drug taking / varying substances and the evolution of government policy. On reading it I certainly didnt know, but know now, that Heroin / opiates were available on prescription ( a bit like the current methadone programmes ) so pre NHS ( 1947 ), "junkies" were those who could afford to pay for their prescriptions, not surprisingly the affluent well to do classes almost exclusively formed the total of addicts....ditto cocaine users ! Anyway a very interesting informative read from a good source.
https://dspace.stir.ac.uk/bitstream/1893/1135/1/1950-2001.pdf
weezer 316
19-Oct-12, 15:37
Pumkin you masive hypocrite.....you still haven't answered why its ok for you to take your mindbending and dangerous drugs yet I cant take my mind bending much less dangerous one. Can I get an answer please.
Are you EVER going to answer?
rob murray
19-Oct-12, 15:54
Pumkin you masive hypocrite.....you still haven't answered why its ok for you to take your mindbending and dangerous drugs yet I cant take my mind bending much less dangerous one. Can I get an answer please.
Are you EVER going to answer?
Do you expect a reply ? Youve your view, Ive mine and pumkin has his, everyone knows that legislation / prohibition has not worked, otherwise usage would have shrank, less people locked up etc etc the genie is out the bottle and drug taking is a fact,even Pumkin agrees with that. Given that new drugs are constantly being produced ie legal highs etc, as yet unlaunched new experiential drugs , where does it all go, the prohibition lobby have to face real hard facts..why do people take drugs, because they do so in their millions right here in the UK, ban one, another takes it place, one is in vogue... one falls away : the question cannot logically, be stop all drugs, the issue is why do so many take drugs ? Understanding the why may lead to a reasoned debate and informed policies.
Pumkin you masive hypocrite.....you still haven't answered why its ok for you to take your mindbending and dangerous drugs yet I cant take my mind bending much less dangerous one. Can I get an answer please.
Are you EVER going to answer?
Man, what are expecting to gain here? You're pushing for an answer to prove what man?
I ask & answer the big questions, from adults, people who've got where they are from research. Years of hands on research, too, may I add. People that deserve respect with the amount of time they put into the subject. People who have the maturity to put themselves into several pairs of shoes! Something I proved to you through our PM's. You, weezer 316, are proving to myself & others that you've only a tatty auld pair o' boots wee man! Until you prove that you've got the maturity level to be able to play in the park with the big lads, I'm not going to answer a completely irrelevant question from a delinquent like yourself.
You're like a child trying their damnedest to run before they can crawl.
you still haven't answered why its ok for you to take your mindbending and dangerous drugs yet I cant take my mind bending much less dangerous one.
You can't prove this, so don't make a statement without the evidence. This is insulting to my being. You're producing your own theories to support your own conclusions here lad.
weezer 316, I've had enough of your pettiness. Please just leave me alone now. Before I go, though, dwell on this.
If the 7 billion + people on planet earth were ALL educated & ALL responsible & ALL showed the level of love & respect required to be a complete being, then drugs would be legal (there'd be no illegal or legal anything in actual fact), the banking system would be extinct as would Government.
Are you following? Nearly finished, just hang on for a minute yet.
The reason WHY drugs are illegal, & WHY we have a banking system & WHY their is Government is to keep us in check. The vast % of the 7 billion population do not have the education, responsibility or love & respect & the understanding of self & our place in the universe required to be able to live a FREE (free as in no ties/boundaries) live.
To get to this level, we need to live by the law.
So I'll repeat what I said in my 6th post;
we are not ready to legalize drugs. Not in this society we're living in.
Now weezer 316, as I've said to you, privately, I wish you all the best in your studies & your chosen career. Now, if you don't mind, take a running jump & leave me be!
Alrock, you said "I'm concerned that people of all ages are being criminalised for chilling out at the end of a busy day/week with a couple of spliffs"
I said "No one is making anyone a criminal. If you choose to break the law you do it to yourself. Don't blame everyone else."
How is that missing the point?
Because the point is not that they are making themselves criminals but that it shouldn't be a crime in the first place. I even gave you an example from history of a well known case where someone was jailed for doing something perfectly natural & legal today yet they where criminalised for it. Attitudes & laws can & should change for the better.
The users of a wee spliff, often pop illegal pills at the same time and drink copious amounts of strong drink as well. Then go and commit horrendous crimes, and when they appear in court the excuse is I was high on drugs and drink.
So what's causing the problems... the wee spliff, the pills or the perfectly legal strong drink?
The excuse of being high on drugs is no excuse, everybody should take responsibility for their own actions.
& here's another report discussing how cannabis can affect teenager brains from developing.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-squeaky-wheel/201208/study-finds-regular-marijuana-use-damages-teenage-brains-0
Not even gonna deny that one, alcohol is also bad for a developing teenagers brain, that is why despite it being legal there are controls on it to try & prevent teenagers from having access to it until their brains are a bit more mature. Similar controls would be placed on cannabis if legalised.
Not even gonna deny that one, alcohol is also bad for a developing teenagers brain, that is why despite it being legal there are controls on it to try & prevent teenagers from having access to it until their brains are a bit more mature. Similar controls would be placed on cannabis if legalised.
This is why it can't & won't work. What you have written above, would happen in a perfect society like the one I mentioned in my previous post. Where everyone would have knowledge, responsible nature, love & respect. But it isn't going to happen, & here's why.
that is why despite it being legal there are controls on it to try & prevent teenagers from having access to it until their brains are a bit more mature
The legal alcohol limit is 18 years of age. Do you think there's anyone under this age that doesn't drink alcohol? Or won't in the future? Not in this society.
Similar controls would be placed on cannabis if legalised.
My above point would slot in here; If the legal cannabis limit was 18 years of age (hypothetically speaking of course), do you think that there would be anyone under 18, that wouldn't consume it in one form or another? Not in this society.
This is why it can't & won't work. What you have written above, would happen in a perfect society like the one I mentioned in my previous post. Where everyone would have knowledge, responsible nature, love & respect. But it isn't going to happen, & here's why.
The legal alcohol limit is 18 years of age. Do you think there's anyone under this age that doesn't drink alcohol? Or won't in the future? Not in this society.
My above point would slot in here; If the legal cannabis limit was 18 years of age (hypothetically speaking of course), do you think that there would be anyone under 18, that wouldn't consume it in one form or another? Not in this society.
No system is perfect, but what with all the resources freed up by legalisation, more could be put into preventing the sale of both alcohol & cannabis to the underage...
Besides, if cannabis should remain illegal because underage teenagers would still be able to get hold of it if legalised then should we not also ban alcohol since underage teenagers can get hold of that also?
I've said it before & no doubt I'll say it again since many choose to block out this most obvious of logical facts, but.... All I am asking for is a level playing field whatever your drug of choice...
rob murray
19-Oct-12, 19:41
Man, what are expecting to gain here? You're pushing for an answer to prove what man?
I ask & answer the big questions, from adults, people who've got where they are from research. Years of hands on research, too, may I add. People that deserve respect with the amount of time they put into the subject. People who have the maturity to put themselves into several pairs of shoes! Something I proved to you through our PM's. You, weezer 316, are proving to myself & others that you've only a tatty auld pair o' boots wee man! Until you prove that you've got the maturity level to be able to play in the park with the big lads, I'm not going to answer a completely irrelevant question from a delinquent like yourself.
You're like a child trying their damnedest to run before they can crawl.
You can't prove this, so don't make a statement without the evidence. This is insulting to my being. You're producing your own theories to support your own conclusions here lad.
weezer 316, I've had enough of your pettiness. Please just leave me alone now. Before I go, though, dwell on this.
If the 7 billion + people on planet earth were ALL educated & ALL responsible & ALL showed the level of love & respect required to be a complete being, then drugs would be legal (there'd be no illegal or legal anything in actual fact), the banking system would be extinct as would Government.
Are you following? Nearly finished, just hang on for a minute yet.
The reason WHY drugs are illegal, & WHY we have a banking system & WHY their is Government is to keep us in check. The vast % of the 7 billion population do not have the education, responsibility or love & respect & the understanding of self & our place in the universe required to be able to live a FREE (free as in no ties/boundaries) live.
To get to this level, we need to live by the law.
So I'll repeat what I said in my 6th post;
Now weezer 316, as I've said to you, privately, I wish you all the best in your studies & your chosen career. Now, if you don't mind, take a running jump & leave me be!
Ok, lets not get personal, try a little research into the subject and you will find that law makers have made serious mistakes in the past over drug policy, I have raised valid points in this so called debate, you say we need to live by the law, who's law, what is law..its all subjective ( in some places the law states that you get stoned to death for a variety of offences...so who's laws do you refer to and again what is law ) You have to see "law" as being part of any political process, laws on drugs are subjected to politics and it will take a generation before politicians actually do what common sense /statistics spell out...the genie is out the bottle, abandon prohibition, provide education and better aspirational qualities of life and then drug taking will decrease, but accept some aspects of society wll aways take drugs...again the key question is why...why do 3 million people use drugs ?? Ok ectasy deaths make headlines, no one forces the damn stuff down anyones throat do they, and forget the Daily Mail " drug dealer headlines " you can buy ectasy anywhere even in the smallest highland hamlet ( along with god knows what else ) so why, why, despite headlines, do millions indulge in ecstasy, is it that they, as free people take the chance themselves, like me as a smoker ? No one forces anyone to do anything everything is down to choice, so Id like to hear your thoughts into why millions choose to take drugs...as millions choose to drink and millions smoke ( not not as many as did in the past,,,a wee hint...education ! ) Trainspotting's conclusion ...choose mortages, choose work, choose banality, choose dishwashers, choose washing machines,choose boredom..above all choose life...says it all, and unfortunatly millions choose drugs, so yet again why ?? Let them get on with it, they can take the concequences, they make the choice why should society waste millions and millions in policing an impossible position
So what's causing the problems... the wee spliff, the pills or the perfectly legal strong drink?
The excuse of being high on drugs is no excuse, everybody should take responsibility for their own actions..
I would say the spliff starts it all off, one or two are not enough, go onto some thing stronger, the pills, then lets have a drink or three, that starts the ball rolling.
I am heading out shortly for my usual Friday night out with a few mates, will have maybe four pints of beer, no more, always manage home safely......all legal and above board.
try a little research into the subject
I do, & have, for 30 years. Haven't you read my previous posts?
who's law, what is law..
The laws that have been put in place in our country. Our country, Great Britain, is run by a coalition government. It's their law/laws :roll:
provide education and better aspirational qualities of life and then drug taking will decrease
This will take my lifetime, my kids lifetime & my grandkids lifetime.
why do 3 million people use drugs ??
It's a bit like telling a bairn, "don't push that red button". Telling Adam & Eve, "don't eat an apple from this tree". Why can't I push that button & why can't I eat that apple from that tree? Why do I have to follow anyone else's laws/rules? Why can't I do what I please?
Why can't I walk down the street naked? Why can't I live & not need to work & not earn money? Why do I/we need money to survive? The list goes on...
a wee hint...education ! )
As I stated above, this will take GENERATIONS to produce the quality of education you speak of.
It seems that you, I & Alrock have come to the conclusion.
Society needs to change; EVERYONE needs to be fully educated, responsible, & show love & respect to everything/everyone. Why cut down the trees? Why burn our natural re-sources? Show respect to the earth. Why murder people? Show respect to people. Understand our place here in the universe. Everyone needs to be a philosopher.
In response Alrock;
All I am asking for is a level playing field
Yes, we all are. However, in order for a level playing field, everyone needs to be on the same level.
No system is perfect, but what with all the resources freed up by legalisation, more could be put into preventing the sale of both alcohol & cannabis to the underage...
Besides, if cannabis should remain illegal because underage teenagers would still be able to get hold of it if legalised then should we not also ban alcohol since underage teenagers can get hold of that also?
I've said it before & no doubt I'll say it again since many choose to block out this most obvious of logical facts, but.... All I am asking for is a level playing field whatever your drug of choice...
I remember being at school (just! ;) seems like a millenia ago) where for Physical Education we were tasked to play football. I must've been 10 or so years old. So we got into teams & one lad was behaving like a total neep. Because of his behavior, the teacher cancelled football & we had to write about the game instead!
The moral of the story? Because of ONE person's behavior, our recreational activity got cancelled.
Now, I don't know you from Adam, Alrock. But let's say that you're a thinker when (if) you take a substance. Let's just say that you're a non - trouble maker who just wants to be left in peace, in the comfort & security of your own home. Let's say that you can handle a substance & it's effect on your head (I'm sorry if this sounds patronising, I've no intention to be) & you know your limits. Basically, the things I've been stating. Education, responsibility, love & respect.
Then, if you live honestly (Education, responsibility, love & respect) why shouldn't you be allowed to do as you please? If you are harming no one, & you aren't a danger to yourself, then why can't you do what you want?
Why can't we live harmoniously & responsibly?
Because we don't live harmoniously & responsibly, your recreational activity is illegal.
I remember being..........Because we don't live harmoniously & responsibly, your recreational activity is illegal.
That whole post could equally have been written about alcohol, so, a little thought experiment for you... on the hypothetical assumption that both are currently legal, could you give me a fair & even argument as to why cannabis should be outlawed & alcohol left legal?
Moira, if you have a legitimate concern - that is outwith your hands - then you need to report it to the police.
Yes, of course, I'd never have thought of that, thank you.
I'm not Jesus. I may be the Messiah but I'm not called Jesus.
<snip>
I just can't take you seriously. You can't even spell man. .
What's your excuse then?
What's your excuse then?
Does pumpkin need an excuse?
John Little
20-Oct-12, 07:27
What's your excuse then?Well the Blasphemy laws in the UK were abolished in 2008. Pumkin could have been prosecuted until then, but your point is a fair one.
Yes, of course, I'd never have thought of that, thank you.
Well, why tell me about your concern on here? What do you expect me to do about it? What do you expect me to say? "Yes, Moira, you are well within your rights to shoot anybody that you find "concerning" regarding the retail of an illegal substance".
Or I can give you the correct advice by advising to report it to the.... oh wait, I have already advised that [disgust]
Oh & John Little, it's obvious you've come onto this thread half read, if you had read the whole thread you'd come to the realization that your man weezer 316 was in actual fact blaspheming. So in your words, "weezer 316 could have been prosecuted until then".
Pair o' plums eh two o' ye! :roll:
....So in your words, "weezer 316 could have been prosecuted until then"....
So... since you seem to think laws are written in stone & once something is illegal it should remain illegal until the end of time do you think that law was right & he should have been prosecuted for blasphemy?
So... since you seem to think laws are written in stone & once something is illegal it should remain illegal until the end of time do you think that law was right & he should have been prosecuted for blasphemy?
Desperation showing here. This is off topic. I highlighted these words as this is not a fact. It is your own theory to support your own conclusion.
Not cool :eek:
Now, again, leave me be!
I would say the spliff starts it all off, one or two are not enough, go onto some thing stronger, the pills, then lets have a drink or three, that starts the ball rolling.
I am heading out shortly for my usual Friday night out with a few mates, will have maybe four pints of beer, no more, always manage home safely......all legal and above board.I'm thinking this is the sort of misguided assumption that is stopping anyone moving forward with any real hope.
You are heading out for your usual beers, that's fine, it's legal. But why don't you then after your couple of beers go onto a couple of shorts, then some cocktails, then quadruple shots and then drinking straight from a bottle of vodka? To get the ball rolling like.
You'll find that many drug users, shall we say recreational drug users (similar to recreational / social drinkers), will have a choice of drug, be it a spliff a pill or snort of powder. Few will mix their drugs as this will mess them up or it will not give them their desired response, very much like drinkers may not mix the grape & the grain or some prefer bitter over lager, or some drink only malts.
But because something is illegal the assumption is that once someone does that one illegal thing they will spiral out of control and become a terror to society at large.
I know you drink.......hypocrite! Should be in the jail! is a dangerous susbstance thats kile 30 000 people each year! You once advised me to drink port and brandy as a hangover cure.
My post here is purely self - defense. & for the fact, again, that you fail to get your facts correct. The post you speak off is here;
http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?165168-Hangover-cures&p=914280#post914280
There is no statement in that post that I do or have taken an alcoholic beverage in my day. So get your bloody facts right before you debate with me!
My post here is purely self - defense. & for the fact, again, that you fail to get your facts correct. The post you speak off is here;
http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?165168-Hangover-cures&p=914280#post914280
There is no statement in that post that I do or have taken an alcoholic beverage in my day. So get your bloody facts right before you debate with me!
So... Are you going to clear this matter up then....
Do you or do you not drink alcohol?
Do you or do you not think alcohol should be made illegal?
Simple yes/no answers are all that is required?
I'm thinking this is the sort of misguided assumption that is stopping anyone moving forward with any real hope.
You are heading out for your usual beers, that's fine, it's legal. But why don't you then after your couple of beers go onto a couple of shorts, then some cocktails, then quadruple shots and then drinking straight from a bottle of vodka? To get the ball rolling like. .
Why would I go and spoil a nice night by mixing my intake of legal alcohol, I know my limits and my likes.
Why would I go and spoil a nice night by mixing my intake of legal alcohol, I know my limits and my likes.And why would someone who enjoys a spliff of a weekend not know their limits?
John Little
20-Oct-12, 17:38
Well, why tell me about your concern on here? What do you expect me to do about it? What do you expect me to say? "Yes, Moira, you are well within your rights to shoot anybody that you find "concerning" regarding the retail of an illegal substance".Or I can give you the correct advice by advising to report it to the.... oh wait, I have already advised that [disgust]Oh & John Little, it's obvious you've come onto this thread half read, if you had read the whole thread you'd come to the realization that your man weezer 316 was in actual fact blaspheming. So in your words, "weezer 316 could have been prosecuted until then".Pair o' plums eh two o' ye! :roll:
Bit sensitive aren't you?
I was replying to Moira, who asked a question. The subject of the question was you, not Weezer.
And her point is that law changes: society makes law. Perhaps you should read it again.
And why would someone who enjoys a spliff of a weekend not know their limits?
Its illegal for a start [lol]
Its illegal for a start [lol]Therefore they will automatically turn into a raging psychopath fueled on a heady cocktail of drugs.
There's progress.
weezer 316
23-Oct-12, 17:01
Been busy for a few days and come back to this!
Pumkin, calm yourself sunshine. Your points are so lacking in cohesion (aas I have pointed out unpteen times) its unreal. but there is little point debating with someone who dismisses research by countless professionals all supporting the same conclusion then citing research of a link to schizophrenia as evidence it should be banned. WE have asked umpteen times why alcoholic affects are ok and drugs aint (even pointing out things like leah betts death from water intoxification being grounds for banning ecstacy) and still you warble on that nothing is proved.
Its like areguing evolution aint real or the big bang never happened. Its not something you can have a debate on.
So, ill ask for the last time, why can you drink (and if you are who I think you are Im sure you at last used to smoke) and not go to jail given the huge maount of harm this stuff does, yet I cant take ecsatcy and possible join the 50 or so people it killed last year. All I want is where YOU draw the line and WHy that lone is drawn please.
Hhhmmm... A mouse has just toddled into the room...
lacking in cohesion
I think you're a funny kiddie, because what you're saying is funny.
dismisses research by countless professionals all supporting the same conclusion
I think now, you're definitely funny, because this is hilarious.
Its like areguing evolution aint real or the big bang never happened. Its not something you can have a debate on.
You have to be a comedian to say that! In fact, that has to be your encore as no comedian would be daft enough to put this in their live act.
(and if you are who I think you are Im sure you at last used to smoke)
That's a pretty big step to say something so forward on a public website. Is this the second time you've slandered me on this thread? I dare say.
All I want is where YOU draw the line and WHy that lone is drawn please.
I think this thread finished long ago. Don't you?
Hhhmmm... A mouse has just toddled into the room...
I think you're a funny kiddie, because what you're saying is funny.
I think now, you're definitely funny, because this is hilarious.
You have to be a comedian to say that! In fact, that has to be your encore as no comedian would be daft enough to put this in their live act.
That's a pretty big step to say something so forward on a public website. Is this the second time you've slandered me on this thread? I dare say.
I think this thread finished long ago. Don't you?
http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/164/6/a/6a1a08c90eb5eb118d4f7079f69e259d-d53bpyg.png
(and if you are who I think you are Im sure you at last used to smoke)
The more I think about this, the more you're infuriating me. This is a serious allegation, along with the allegation of you stating I should be in the jail. Now you're playing games, saying you know me?
weezer 316
23-Oct-12, 22:28
Infuriating? I never said you should be in jail. You were confused by my point and I explained it. I'll copy the reply below.
"As mentioned, I'm not saying you should be in the jail. But if alcohol, a dangerous mind bending substance by any measure, was illegal you would be a criminal.
That I am sure you agree, would be ludicrous no?
And before you post I will give you fair warning as your not giving this much thought. if you agree with my last sentence you have undermined your whole case again. if you dont your a hypocrite....who has undermined their own case.
And can you clarify why you can take your mind bending and deadly drug legally and I cannot take my equally mind bending and much less deadly drug without being a criminal? "
Now, as suggested previously, if being asked to publicly explain your public pronouncements on certain subjects forces you to evade the question repeatedly, ridicule ones intelligence and then make legal threats on the basis of misunderstandings on your part and being asked to again explain yourself then I would suggest, strongly, that you block me. the tools are there to do so and I suggest you make use of them.
And for the second time also, its libel in print, not slander.
And having an idea of the price of drugs doesnt equal me knowing where to source it. Unless of course you are saying I am in the drug trade. Is that that what your saying?
And having an idea of the price of drugs doesnt equal me knowing where to source it. Unless of course you are saying I am in the drug trade. Is that that what your saying?
Wow. You're the hypocrite here!
You an buy Smack from Afghanistan, refined in Iran and trasnported accross the world in Thurso,
You can buy Bolivian and columbian cocaine, shipped via western Africa in Thurso, and I bet I could even cook you crack from it if you wanted.
You cant buy a mcDonalds or a Starbucks , Dominos and even Lidl is squeezed here!
Thats a fact.
I never said you were in the drug trade. You said the above in the 10th post.
Wow. You're the hypocrite here!
I never said you were in the drug trade. You said the above in the 10th post.
I don't read that into that... All you can read from that is that he is reasonably knowledgeable about the drug trade as you claim you are & that he can Google "How To Make Crack"
weezer 316
23-Oct-12, 22:47
Or read books like this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cocaine-Definitive-History-Dominic-Streatfeild/dp/0753506270
I don't read that into that...
Eh?
weezer's statement;
And having an idea of the price of drugs doesnt equal me knowing where to source it.
My response, from his own post;
You an buy Smack from Afghanistan, refined in Iran and trasnported accross the world in Thurso,
You can buy Bolivian and columbian cocaine, shipped via western Africa in Thurso, and I bet I could even cook you crack from it if you wanted.
You cant buy a mcDonalds or a Starbucks , Dominos and even Lidl is squeezed here!
Thats a fact.
Notice that last three words?
weezer 316
23-Oct-12, 22:53
. . . . . .
And having an idea of the price of drugs doesnt equal me knowing where to source it.
Throughout this whole thread, you have not once mentioned the price of a given drug.
. . . . . .
Yes, that hole has got deeper, hasn't it?
Eh?
weezer's statement;
My response, from his own post;
Notice that last three words?
"Thats a fact".... well... it is a fact
weezer 316
23-Oct-12, 23:00
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Anyone who reads the papers knows that it is a FACT that Heroin and Cocaine are available in Thurso. Pumkin hat are you suggesting here - are you really suggesting that Weezer is somehow doing something illegal simply because he knows that you can buy Cocaine and Heroin in Thurso?
are you really suggesting that Weezer is somehow doing something illegal
Not in the slightest.
Calm down folk, we are all aware that various illegal substances are available to those who are weak enough to not be able to get through life without some sort of prop!
AND I do not declare myself innocent but the drugs I have used have all been legal..I smoked but no longer do and I'm quite happy to have a dram or two of a night.
weezer 316
24-Oct-12, 08:02
Ahem....
A public apology pumkin over calling me a hypocrite for saying I dont know where to buy certain substances? It looks like you are insinuating I am lying and do know and I am somehow concerned in the market for such items.
One chance.
radiohead
24-Oct-12, 23:55
How can so much bollocks be spouted by so few?
Yes, Drugs are a problem, but prohibition doesn't work. The enforcement of "the misuse of drugs Act" (which in itself is an oxymoron), is flawed and inconsistent. I have friends from the south who have had a visit from the police who ignored the smell of hash but asked for the music to be turned down, and I know of two people up here who have a criminal record for sharing a spliff in their flat. Decriminalise the use of Cannabis, as in California, makes money for the Government and controls production.
I expect a bigotted response from some, also accusations of illegal activity, but that is par for the course just lately on the Org...
Well, why tell me about your concern on here? What do you expect me to do about it? What do you expect me to say? "Yes, Moira, you are well within your rights to shoot anybody that you find "concerning" regarding the retail of an illegal substance".
Or I can give you the correct advice by advising to report it to the.... oh wait, I have already advised that [disgust]
Oh & John Little, it's obvious you've come onto this thread half read, if you had read the whole thread you'd come to the realization that your man weezer 316 was in actual fact blaspheming. So in your words, "weezer 316 could have been prosecuted until then".
Pair o' plums eh two o' ye! :roll:
My intention was to add to the debate initiated by the OP.
This was not to be, given your intervention.
Thank you for calling me a plum. I've been called a peach before, only the colour is different....... :)
At last.... Some sense...
http://www.mail.com/news/us/1685504-pot-votes-2-challenge-us-drug-war.html#.7518-stage-hero1-4
weezer 316
08-Nov-12, 13:35
At last.... Some sense...
http://www.mail.com/news/us/1685504-pot-votes-2-challenge-us-drug-war.html#.7518-stage-hero1-4
One of the arguments against it by the colorado authorities was "It might invite cartels to come here". No Joke, actual line.
Deligthed to see it pass. Federal authorites wl likely stll prosecute but who knows.......step in the right direction. Hopefully ecstacy will be next. Start supplying clean stuff instad of rat poison and stop creating criminals fom things that arent actaully crimes.
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