.Orger Usergroup for Change [Archive]

Colin Manson

11-Dec-06, 05:11

Hi,

I'm just starting this thing, after this it'll be porshiepoo that leads the group.

Users that wish to be included in this group can post here, the purpose of the group isn't yet clearly defined, that will be decided at the first meeting.

Some initial ideas that were voiced in the chat room gathering were -

Terms & Conditions and Forum Rules - They need to be revised, certainly they need to be clearer.

New Moderators - Suggested by the Users via the usergroup

Moderators - Code of conduct, moderating policy, rotation system?

In essence we would like to get two groups together to work out how and what to improve and to implement a system to create the required change.

I'd suggest about 12 members for the group but that's up to you, it needs to be manageable and hopefully contain a broad spectrum of users.

porshiepoo will choose the group from all the applicants. There is nothing to stop you creating a second group concentrate on certain aspects of the plan and then report back to the first group.

Once the group has been formed we'll arrange to meet to find out what the scope of the project will be and we can start to work on what everyone thinks is the highest priority.

Mr P Cannop

11-Dec-06, 07:24

would like to join the group please

Ricco

11-Dec-06, 08:54

Over the weekend I have been thinking that there should be a mixed approach to the appointment of moderators: some elected from within the admin group and some elected by the orgers themselves - perhaps a balanced number?

If it were left entirely to the orgers to elect mods there is the danger that a clique of 'interested' parties could get a majority. A mixed approach would tend to be more self-moderating as the interests of both sides would be represented.

I also think that the role of the moderators needs to be more clearly defined and made public so that there can be no doubts amongst the org community. I trust that representations and elections will be wise and that those elected will carry out their duties responsibly.

As for the forum in its entirety.. I think that it is fine, just needs to be more open so that the general membership can see and understand why certain events take place.

porshiepoo

11-Dec-06, 09:32

I'm just starting this thing, after this it'll be porshiepoo that leads the group.

Huh? When did that get decided then??????
I've just come on here (logged on all the time though as I'm lazy lol) and found out i've been elected to lead this group.
Again, Huh?

porshiepoo

11-Dec-06, 09:44

Ok Guys, lets start by posting names - come on you know you want to. :eek:

Mr P Cannop your request has been noted.

Bill Fernie

11-Dec-06, 10:16

If we are having names put forward will you consider using real names this time round. A few of us have been up front from the start and it might help users confidence in the set up if they knew precisely who was doing the moderating.

If there are to be elections are you going to have each potential candidate do write up about their experience and views on the web site and forum. It is difficult for anyone to decide in an election who to vote for and there has been criticism for example of the recent community council elections in Caithness because no information was put out about candidates and people were left to vote for people they knew or take stab in the dark.

Can I suggest that candidates require a few skills and a very thick skin, ability to take lots of criticism, time to deal with an increased number of PM's and emails on any topic ongoing on the forum and from time to time the ability to eat humble pie- as you will never get it right all of the time. Once selected new moderators will need to catch up in the moderators forum with all of the previous threads, deal with the rules old and new.

I am not sure if the new set up will work as the more people you introduce into the set up the more potential there is for disagreement on the style and approach to any particular problem or issue. Running anything by committee can take a lot of time (I should know) and rarely do you have a 100% concensus or anything approaching it. That is fine if eveyone understands the set up and does not feel hurt when votes go against them if indeed a vote is required. To date the mods have generally agreed on most issues and for the most part things have been resolved very quickly.

Since the buck stops with me and it is myself who receive some of the final threats in some matters including legal action I will still reserve as in the past the right to overall control where I feel that particular matters may directly affect me as owner. That said I think this might be an interesting approach on the web site at the start of something new at least to us.

I stand ready for a few comments on the above - in fact I expect nothing less from you. Nothing is set in stone.

porshiepoo

11-Dec-06, 10:46

The electing sounds good to me.
How about we start a new thread whereby potential candidates can post a write up about themselves (if thats the way people want to go), but shouldn't really be open to replies. Purely for candidate write up?
Then after a set time perhaps we put it to a poll? The candidates with most votes get picked??

Or would this leave us open to people picking friends, family etc rather than the right person for the job???

I think candidates really have to be aware of the time involved in this. It seems to me that since the moderators were chosen, those moderators don't seem to post as much as they used to. I guess this is due to the amount of time needed to moderate not leaving much time for posting.
Also I think we expect mods to be unbiased (even though thats not necessarily job description) and can sometimes be expected not to even have an opinion.
Just something to be aware of. Could those of you intending to put yourselves forward be capable of being unbiased if necessary???

calish6

11-Dec-06, 11:01

Hi there, I don't post on the '.org' all that much, but I do read a lot of the threads with interest.
I rarely reply to any, unless something that is being said gets on my goat, but the majority of the time (99%) the Orgers moderate themselves and I believe the likes of 'porshiepoo' would do a grand job as being leader of this new group.

The fiasco of the last few days could of been prevented if the Mods or mod in question, were more open about what happened right from the start.
I totally understood the orgers and their grievances, but when the whole story started to filter through (slowly I might add) I could see the reasoning behind the moderators action, so did not feel the need to throw my tuppennys worth in. Some people do though and unfortunately the thread gets spoiled and goes off track, and tempers flare. If things like that were nipped in the bud, we could go back to slagging of the government and the likes a lot sooner and there wouldn't be so many battered ego's.

I am not saying that I would be a good Moderator, far from it, but when you vote for your new mods, don't rush into nominating, take a look back over their posts and get a feel for the type of person they are, see how objective they are, see if they rise to the bait too quickly and as Bill said, get them to use their real name.
At the end of the day, honesty is the best policy, and work as a team.

Thats enough of my ramblings, just vote wisely.

Dreadnought

11-Dec-06, 11:18

Gogglebox

11-Dec-06, 11:36

May I suggest the User Group is comprised only of Caithnessians? The Org was set up to promote Caithness to the benefit of Caithness people, it is only right that people in Caithness make up the User Group.

Wouldnt that be encouraging exclusivity, we need to expand our horizons not become all parochial.

I feel it should be open to all members of the org, i dont think we have used location as a excluding factor before and would be wrong to start now

Id be intrested in getting involved, i now nothing technically about computers but i dont think thats whats needed to help shape the new setup, plenty of time on my hands and interested in seeing the org go forward from the current situation and encouraging some of the ex-orgers to be unable to resist coming back to join good strong debate.

Any more out there willing to get involved

weeboyagee

11-Dec-06, 11:38

I'm up for being considered for the group - after the festive season I won't be doing much - aye right! ;)

WBG :cool:

Piglet

11-Dec-06, 11:42

I feel it should be open to all members of the org, i dont think we have used location as a excluding factor before and would be wrong to start now

I have to agree with you Gogglebox it has to be open to all .org members even those that don't post that often.

calish6

11-Dec-06, 11:52

I do think that you would find that most people on the org are either living in Caithness or are ex-pats or have very strong Caithness connections, but yes, it should be open to anybody who has good judgment and common sense.
I don't think any of the orgers would vote for anybody form Kazikstan anyway, unless they had connections !! lol :-)

porshiepoo

11-Dec-06, 11:54

Personally I too feel that it should be open to everyone that uses the forum.

I'd like to see it open to everyone who has an interest in how it is run and how it works and who genuinely want to move it forward and encourage those ex orgers back.

porshiepoo

11-Dec-06, 12:10

I meant to ask how you all felt about the suggestion of using real names?

Ricco

11-Dec-06, 12:17

I would be up for a place if I were considered a valuable contributor. I have no real objection to my real name being know as long as other personal details were kept that way. A number of members already know my real name anyway. Go for it, Porshie!

calish6

11-Dec-06, 12:18

krieve

11-Dec-06, 12:20

Would that be your whole name or a real made up name like jimbob [lol] sorry and are you OK with being lynched when you go out shopping!!! :lol:

Ricco

11-Dec-06, 12:23

Yip, at least first names would be a start, but you need to be careful.
I don't think being too open is right, you could be stopped in the street every 5 minutes by disgruntled orgers wanting you to fix their problems.
But I could be wrong.

Best to put it to a vote (poll).

Hmm, they'd have to travel a long way. Anyway, it is good to be approachable and helpful.

Would that be your whole name or a real made up name like jimbob [lol] sorry and are you OK with being lynched when you go out shopping!!! :lol:

Wouldn't that be the same as 'Ricco' or 'Krieve'? I'd rather stick with the open & honest approach.

MadPict

11-Dec-06, 12:24

I have asked for clarification on this - I assume (always a dangerous thing) that your real names would only be revealed to Bill et al.

Davie MacLeod

11-Dec-06, 12:25

As an ex paranoid lurker may I congratulate the people who have explained and apologised their actions.
I would like to think that like most the support to continue should be seen as a show of appreciation of what has been achieved to date, and the positive willingness to continue and improve a sign that the heart of the org is strong.
Now the mouth (message boards) and the brain (Admin/mods) looks like being synchronised and strengthen the org on the www as a community of Caithness.
My own interest on the org and the net is family history and, truly, the first indication I had of anything was en email from one of the users on a mailing list asking “what’s happening on that site you recommended? I have forwarded the org as a site to many such lists, I will now reply to have a look again.
May I humbly suggest the following points, yes to using proper names as it is easier asking “Joe Blogs” than say “Mr. floppityflop” (apologies if name is in use) about OPR in the genealogy section? Better saying “thanks Joe than thanks Floppity!
The sections seem to be just a few, which are hobbies/interests (gardening, literature, music, technical support etc.) and e-crack (general, recommendations, births/deaths for sale, wanted etc.
I would also support and meant meaningfully in my last post the following
Moderators oversee specific forums. They generally have the ability to edit and delete posts, move threads, and perform other manipulations. Becoming a moderator for a specific forum is usually rewarded to users who are particularly helpful and knowledgeable in the subject of the forum they are moderating.
Finally could I suggest a privacy statement/policy put in place and easy contact to the brain?

WeeBurd

11-Dec-06, 12:26

First names would be good for the Mods if that is what is so desired, however people may have good reasons for not wishing to use their surnames on-line ;) . Personally, I have no issues with the current usernames though, I'm quite attached to WeeBurd!

I too would be willing to through my hat into the ring - I have plenty of spare time, and would love to see the Forums return to the lively, involved place it was when I first began posting.

peedie

11-Dec-06, 12:40

i'd like to join the group please, been a lurker longer than a poster so not sure bout the mod thing but i do have a lot of free time and skin as thick as a rhinos [lol]

Dreadnought

11-Dec-06, 12:44

Wouldn't nominations be better than volunteers? And once you have say twenty names, have a poll and the ten most popular join the user group.

peedie

11-Dec-06, 12:47

Wouldn't nominations be better than volunteers? And once you have say twenty names, have a poll and the ten most popular join the user group.

actually i think you're right, everybody will have a good idea of who is good for the job. i'm for that idea!

paris

11-Dec-06, 12:48

Wouldn't nominations be better than volunteers? And once you have say twenty names, have a poll and the ten most popular join the user group.
Much better idea Dreadnought ! jan x

Elenna

11-Dec-06, 13:12

You seem to have three different points of consideration running here, with input requested, and suggestions being made for each.

1. Volunteers for your committee to consider new rules and standards for the forum.

I would like to join this. I have some experience (about 3 1/2 years) in creating and running a fanfictions forum-site, and I think I could make a few helpful contributions.

2. People who are interested in running as Forum-elected Moderators.

I am not so certain at the moment if I would be able to do this.

3. The issue of using ones real name online.

I have never had any problem with local people (or anyone in this online community) knowing who I am. In fact, quite a few of those I have met in person know who "Elenna" is (it is actually a nickname I have in person, anyway, and people call me that in real life), and I have posted many references to my job, family, etc, which likely would give a lot of folks clear clues to my real identity.

However, for personal reasons of my own, I would feel uncomfortable for my actual name to be revealed for all the world to see. Would there possibly be a kind of middle ground able to be set up around the idea...ie, that members could access name and contact details without it just being "out there" available to casual visitors? Having said that, yes, I understrand someone who could be "looking to cause trouble" might join and prey upon the information, but hopefully that would be a rare, or at least less likely, occurrance.

I think that is all. Have I missed out anything?

porshiepoo

11-Dec-06, 13:21

I've had a few people contact expressing a concern about using proper names for various reasons and I personally think we have to respect that.
I myself have quite a distinctive surname and don't think I'd be entirely comfortable with it being out there.
Someone has already suggested mabe just using first names or to get around the obvious problems this could cause perhaps the girlies could use maiden names.
Obviously this solution wouldn't help the males that want to join in or the unmarried females but I'm open to suggestions?

As far as nominations go, I've had messages and emails from people supporting a poll but mainly from people opposing it, obviously though theres alot more people to add their opinions before we can decide anything.
The main reason for opposing a poll seems to be the concern that people will just vote for friends and family (and we all know what trouble that idea can cause) and that we'll be no better off than we are now.

So far I think theres approximately 7 of us having shown an interest so we need lots more sacrifices......Oops sorry volunteers! :lol:

Just adding on:

How about to get this thing rolling quickly, once we have enough volunteers I just pick 12 (seems like a decent number Colin) to start up the forum usergroup, once we have that ball rolling we then start taking nominations for moderators that can then be voted for by all of us?

Piglet

11-Dec-06, 13:31

I don't see a problem with using just your first name but not your surnames because as you say many people have distinct surnames.

They will have to volunteer tho not just be voted in as it is there time they are committing to it - we can't just vote for someone who dosen't want to be thrown in at the deep end. :roll:

Just adding on:

How about to get this thing rolling quickly, once we have enough volunteers I just pick 12 (seems like a decent number Colin) to start up the forum usergroup, once we have that ball rolling we then start taking nominations for moderators that can then be voted for by all of us?

Sounds like a sensible idea porshie

Naefearjustbeer

11-Dec-06, 13:36

I don't see a problem with using just your first name but not your surnames because as you say many people have distinct surnames.

They will have to volunteer tho not just be voted in as it is there time they are committing to it - we can't just vote for someone who dosen't want to be thrown in at the deep end. :roll:

Sounds like a sensible idea porshie

Maybe the mods should all have the same surname. Only apply if you are a Mackay. Ahh maybe not they will all be from Bettyhill :lol:

Elenna

11-Dec-06, 13:38

<snip>

So far I think theres approximately 7 of us having shown an interest so we need lots more sacrifices......Oops sorry volunteers! :lol:

Just adding on:

How about to get this thing rolling quickly, once we have enough volunteers I just pick 12 (seems like a decent number Colin) to start up the forum usergroup, once we have that ball rolling we then start taking nominations for moderators that can then be voted for by all of us?

That seems reasonable to me. :)

PS I really do not like my first name, which is why people call me Elenna. Can't I just stick with that...pleeeeease??

peedie

11-Dec-06, 13:41

How about to get this thing rolling quickly, once we have enough volunteers I just pick 12 (seems like a decent number Colin) to start up the forum usergroup, once we have that ball rolling we then start taking nominations for moderators that can then be voted for by all of us?

sounds like a good plan

Gogglebox

11-Dec-06, 13:54

Hope the current moderators are not holding back putting themselves forward for the user group because of recent events.

Their opinions and experiences will be very important in shaping things

They may be moderators but they are still orgers and their opinion is important. Its a way foward that is being sought not a revolution.

Dont throw the baby out with the bathwater!! - - what a daft saying!!

jamieS

11-Dec-06, 14:10

Hi Porshiepoo,
I wouldn’t mind being a volunteer, I am on most nights reading the forums anyway, so might as well do something constructive with my time.

Jamie

Dreadnought

11-Dec-06, 14:41

krieve

11-Dec-06, 15:01

I agree with dreadnought, seems the only way.

_Ju_

11-Dec-06, 15:04

May I suggest the User Group is comprised only of Caithnessians? The Org was set up to promote Caithness to the benefit of Caithness people, it is only right that people in Caithness make up the User Group.

So many people who are not in Caithness participate validly in this forum. Or maybe you were speaking about Caithnessians per se ( ie: excluding "incomers"?- how I hate this word!). Either way, many people not originally from caithness or who are living outside of Caithness are very important to keeping the type of forum that has kept me coming back here regularly in the 2 years I have been here.

Billy Boy

11-Dec-06, 15:30

The reason I suggested nominations and then a poll is that if the selection is completely open and democratic there can be no suspicion of nepotism or favouritism, such as there has been aired over the selection of the current crop of mods.

here here,in my humble opinion this is the only fair way to do it,it just coundn't be fair to hand pick another group

weeboyagee

11-Dec-06, 15:31

OK, then. Sort this one. Most people know my real name and who I am so I have nothing to hide on here - more's the pity :roll:

Quite a lot of you know that there is more than one of me with the exact same first name and surname living in the same village, both with Gaelic names to our houses. The other one of me (not giving away my name cause it's his too!) has had enough hassle having phone calls to sing at ceilidhs, do work for the BBC, or general chat in Gaelic to last him a life time I dare say - including the amount of mail he has received over the years by mistake. The thought of having to recognise us by our first and/or second names would freak him out poor soul at being accused of "saying" things on the org that are not from him :D

I don't see why we can't continue with our org names - I don't care if I am referred to as weeboyagee. Those who know me in public probably know my org name as well. Also, it is a very unique and distinct sign of affilliation with this site - someone says to me "Do you know Rheghead?" I immediately connect with the org. Someone says to me "Do you know "Rheghead's real name"?" I immediately flick through all the people I know by that name (OK, there may not be a lot of them but you get my meaning!)

I also think that the users group should have an outside input. Don't limit it to Caithness people - my family and many generations before are from Caithness and although I wasn't born here I have lived here most of my life. The people outside Caithness and indeed outside Scotland and the UK are invaluable in their input and often manage to help "steer" the forum. It is purely for this reason that I would welcome their input.

squidge

11-Dec-06, 15:33

OK im dipping my toe into this - I am interested in becoming part of this group. I try to say what i think and try to be objective and fair in whatever i post and in the actions i take but i dont want to be subjected to snide remarks and nasty digs and unpleasant innuendo. I will share my real name with anyone who PMs me but its not for posting on the Forum at large - you never know who is watching [para].

I love this site and i have been around it for a fair few years. Id be happy to see it becoming a better site for us users

Kaishowing

11-Dec-06, 15:34

Naefearjustbeer

11-Dec-06, 15:56

This may not be the place to post this, but it is related, so....

I suggest that appointed Mods get two accounts. They keep their existing accounts to post as they normally would, but then have a seperate Mod account where they can post 'officially' as it were.
Part of the problem in the past was where Mod's were unable to wear two hats without letting personal feelings or opinions colour judgement. (thats my opinion anyway.)
With the two accounts there can be no mistake of people being unsure of who was posting, the Moderator, or the user!

That may work until everybody works out who is who and what the alter ego is called. Then the Mod will be slated for having 2 hats. Maybe 1 moderator account that several peole can use to mod things. That way no one idividual mod can taken to task by the forum members. However the mod group must know who has done what so they can regulate themslves.

crashbandicoot1979

11-Dec-06, 16:01

I'd like to put my name forward for the group but I also believe that a poll would be a better idea, then the orgers can vote for those that they trust the most. I also think that the mods real names should be available because its all too easy to hide behind a screen name at times.

MadPict

11-Dec-06, 16:11

With all respect Dreadnought,
"May I suggest the User Group is comprised only of Caithnessians? The Org was set up to promote Caithness to the benefit of Caithness people, it is only right that people in Caithness make up the User Group."
You are creating a clique - there never was one here despite peoples perceptions but now you wish to start one up? What is your definition of a Caithnessian? Do you fit the bill?

Naefear -
"Maybe the mods should all have the same surname. Only apply if you are a Mackay. Ahh maybe not they will all be from Bettyhill "
Hmm, this is supposed to be constructive suggestions for the way forward - if these same old accusations keep getting thrown into the mix we'll get nowhere.

Dreadnought -
"...here can be no suspicion of nepotism or favouritism, such as there has been aired over the selection of the current crop of mods."
Here we go again - allegations of conniving going on. For the record I am not related to anyone here by birth or marriage. Trawling this stuff up again is not helpful.

Kaishowing - while the two hats idea seems good I don't think it would help. The lines between the two ater egos would blur and could cause friction. A Mod is a Mod - IIRC I did suggest such a thing way back before the current Mods were selected - Anonymous "Moderator" accounts which the selected members would use. I think it was turned down.

crashbandicoot1979
The current username situation is fine IMO - when you are asked to serve in whatever way (.OUGFC or Mod) your true identity is submitted to the Admins - there is no need to reveal who you really are to the forum in general if you don't wish to. My real name is known to those who need to know. Are Mods Orgers first or Mods first? If they are Orgers then they have the same right as you to be known by a nickname. I support the right to retaining a modicum of annonimity.

squidge

11-Dec-06, 16:13

See the thing is that some of the nasty emails and PMs that come the way of the mods would make me nervous about showing my real name to just anyone. I know that you all havent seen some of the worst stuff that colin and niall have had ... and others but it can be really unpleasant. its fine for people to threaten to batter "squidge" but i would be slightly alarmed if my identity was available to anyone who could read it. You are assuming that everyone is nice and reasonable but it appears that they arent. If i get to be involved with this group then im happy to share my identity with the group and if anyone else wants to know or meet for coffee then im happy for that too but to just flash my name to everyone then no thanks

Edit

Although thinking about it - i share my house with The Bruce, a war hammer, a battle axe and a hand and a half sword - i'd probably be quite safe

porshiepoo

11-Dec-06, 16:16

Well theres 11 or so up for it so far - come on guys! :)

I'm a little concerned that this is going to turn into months of voting for everything. lol. Voting for whether we vote for usergroup members then actually voting for the usergroup members then voting for mods etc etc :confused

Personally, voting for the usergroup members concerns me a little but only because I know alot of people on here are related and / or very friendly in everyday life and I'm not so sure that it could be done fairly.
I would worry that this could cause as much concern about the fairness of it as me picking 12 people would.
Remember I would only be picking 12 members for the usergroup, we would then put the mods up for a forum vote.

Kaishowing

11-Dec-06, 16:19

That may work until everybody works out who is who and what the alter ego is called. Then the Mod will be slated for having 2 hats. Maybe 1 moderator account that several peole can use to mod things. That way no one idividual mod can taken to task by the forum members. However the mod group must know who has done what so they can regulate themslves.

LOL I wasn't suggesting it was to be secret....just to make things easier for people to keep attitudes seperate. Also for those needing moderation, it'll be far less confusing than being told to 'calm down' by someone who may not have posted in such an acceptable way themselves in the past from a certain point of view.
Impartiality is the key. It must be 100% even-handed, and that's impossible with someone who's got a history here.
Even if that history is seen to be pure as the driven snow, some will think that means they're too 'wishy-washy' and test limits which will lead to confrontation..The last thing this place needs for the forseeable future!
All round it would make things easier for the Moderator's themselves, and the Users in general.
A single account may work the same way, just as long as other Mod's could keep track of whom said what!

crashbandicoot1979

11-Dec-06, 16:20

MadPict,

Fair point, I'll admit I was only looking at it from the point of view of an orger and not as a mod. Although I agree that Admin should know the mods real names.

changilass

11-Dec-06, 16:20

I am more than happy to help out in any way I can, I can't wait to see the new improved forum where we can all get back to posting happily.

Naefearjustbeer

11-Dec-06, 16:27

Naefear -
Quote:
"Maybe the mods should all have the same surname. Only apply if you are a Mackay. Ahh maybe not they will all be from Bettyhill "

Naefear -
Hmm, this is supposed to be constructive suggestions for the way forward - if these same old accusations keep getting thrown into the mix we'll get nowhere.

It was a joke I didnt know it resembled any old accusations. Mackay and Bettyhill was a random choice. I do not know many of the mods and wouldnt know if there were all Mackays or any other surname for that matter.
MAybe the mods should be called Mod1 Mod2 Mod3 etc. If we the members are allowed to vote for mods then we would obviosly have to know your present forum name but once voted in the moderators group could asign who is mod 123 etc so only the mods know who is who. If a forum member has a concern to raise about a mod eg then he/she can raise it against mod3 then the mod team can discuss amongst themselves and give a verdict. This way the mods remain annonymouse as you will still have your old username to put your public opinion hat on with.

MadPict

11-Dec-06, 16:28

Billy Boy

11-Dec-06, 16:29

I am more than happy to help out in any way I can, I can't wait to see the new improved forum where we can all get back to posting happily.

do you honestly believe that a usergroup will bring back a new improved forum? personally i think not, it's just going to lead to more bickering but then again what do i know:confused

MadPict

11-Dec-06, 16:31

Nae worries Naefear - it has been used in criticism of the Mods before now.

I think you'd very soon figure out which Mod was who - unless the Mods forum names are kept secret ;)

Dreadnought

11-Dec-06, 16:32

With respect Mad Pict, my post was not an allegation. It was a statement of fact, many people do not believe the selection of the current moderators was fair or well thought out. This has given rise to much suspicion and distrust.

An open nomination system, followed by a poll carried out by all the members of this forum will kill any suspicions stone dead.

canuck

11-Dec-06, 16:34

Colin and Porshiepoo,

I don't read a lot of opposition to the idea of a usergroup being formed initially from volunteers. A more formal structure, if it appears to be needed, can be designed and proposed to the membership at large from this usergroup. This is an internet site so I would assume that the meetings would be held on the internet and therefore location doesn't matter. It would mean that weeboyagee could be present from wherever his work and vacation take him.

So, to get things started I would nominate to form the first usergroup all those members who have volunteered through the posts on this thread.

I would assume that the present moderator system would stay in place until a new system can be proposed and implemented.

As to the use of names, I agree with all the arguments put forward for not exposing the true identity of anyone to the public through the forum. However, as MadPict clarified, all names are known to the administration.

Kaishowing

11-Dec-06, 16:35

kaishowing,
Accountability seems to be part of this new drive - having one Mod account accessed by all blurs that principle.

....A single account may work the same way, just as long as other Mod's could keep track of whom said what!

I'm sure if that is what is wanted, a bot plugin can be devised - I know someone who can make vB do practically anything...

Save us from more plug-ins!!! LOL Thats not a particularly reassuring comment!:eek:

squidge

11-Dec-06, 16:36

I dont think that there is any point in reiterating this accusation here Dreadnought. This thread is to try to decide a way forward - the voting for mods is something for the user group to take forward and if you are part of it you will be involved in making that hapopen but for now and for this thread can we not throw up old accusations and allegations and innuendo

With respect Mad Pict, my post was not an allegation. It was a statement of fact, many people do not believe the selection of the current moderators was fair or well thought out. This has given rise to much suspicion and distrust.

An open nomination system, followed by a poll carried out by all the members of this forum will kill any suspicions stone dead.

Dreadnought

11-Dec-06, 16:42

Dreadnought

11-Dec-06, 16:46

Ps, This is a thread about the selection of a Users Group, for User by Users. Why are these Mods here telling us what should and shouldn't be?

squidge

11-Dec-06, 16:48

squidge

11-Dec-06, 16:49

Ps, This is a thread about the selection of a Users Group, for User by Users. Why are these Mods here telling us what should and shouldn't be?

Im a user too actually Dreadnought. if youare asking why im expressing my opinion its because i thought it was valid.... as a user's opinion that is

golach

11-Dec-06, 16:50

Porshie, now I have all this free time on my hands I would like to become a member of your group.

Kaishowing

11-Dec-06, 16:52

squidge

11-Dec-06, 16:57

Just an aside: Exactly the situation that a seperate MOD account would prevent.

These are all the sorts of issues that the user group will explore i am sure

MadPict

11-Dec-06, 16:58

Dreadnought,
I am not telling anyone anything - I am suggesting alterantives to peoples suggestions because they may not have thought of that option.

At least Gogglebox has the right mindset -

Hope the current moderators are not holding back putting themselves forward for the user group because of recent events.

Their opinions and experiences will be very important in shaping things

They may be moderators but they are still orgers and their opinion is important. Its a way foward that is being sought not a revolution.

Dont throw the baby out with the bathwater!! - - what a daft saying!!

And exactly what is your role here? You see that we are trying to move forward but seem determined to open the sores again?

May I suggest the User Group is comprised only of Caithnessians?
And may I ask what is your connection to Caithness? From your profile you have friends in the county. Is that all? Never lived there? Educated there? Worked there? Family born there? If that is the case then maybe you should leave the decision making to the people with deeper connections to the county.

Just curious....

golach

11-Dec-06, 17:00

And may I ask what is your connection to Caithness? From your profile you have friends in the county. Is that all? Never lived there? Educated there? Worked there? Family born there? If that is the case then maybe you should leave the decision making to the people with deeper connections to the county. Just curious....
Me too MP, at least I was born there

Dreadnought

11-Dec-06, 17:00

Hey..... dont shout at me!!!! i wasnt telling you not to discuss it - just to take it somewhere else. This thread is about other things I didnt think it was helpful thats all. There was no need to be so shirty I may be a mod but im allowed a flipping opinion too:roll:

I shouted because you don't, or don't want to understand. The wy the User Group is selected is VERY important if it is to be trusted by the members. In the current climate moderators and Admin or barely trusted at all, mainly due to recent events, but also due to the manner of their selection ie, behind closed doors with no input from the membership.
If you want to avoid this situation arising again, then the selection has to be completely open and democratic.
That is very relevant to this thread, and I see no reason to 'take it somewhere else'.

Dreadnought

11-Dec-06, 17:02

And may I ask what is your connection to Caithness? From your profile you have friends in the county. Is that all? Never lived there? Educated there? Worked there? Family born there? If that is the case then maybe you should leave the decision making to the people with deeper connections to the county.

Just curious....

Isn't that exactly what I said inmy post? Am I missing something here? Or is it just a case of you and Golach spoiling for another argument in the hopes of disrupting yet another thread?

Elenna

11-Dec-06, 17:07

I know there are a number of different points being discussed here (especially the concerns about the Moderators role), but this thread is specifically about the proposed Usergroup Committee, so if I might, Id like to bring it back to that.

From what I understood in Colins opening post, this Usergroup Committee of volunteers is (as of right now) to do three things (though perhaps not in this order, and I may be wrong in interpretation, so please correct me, if necessary):

1 Look at the T&Cs and forum rules and make suggestions for revisions to make it all fairer and clearer (I would interpolate that this would include looking at, and possibly incorporating, any suggestions submitted to the committee by members, too)

2 Take nominations from the members for new Moderators. These people would then post a bit about themselves, and voting would take place by the membership

3 Review and suggest changes to the Moderators Code of Conduct, practices, and policies, and look at the feasibility of setting up a system of periodically rotating Mods (again, welcoming any member suggestions for consideration)

I had the impression that any suggestions or recommendations this Committee is to make would have to be approved by both the Admin (for feasability, legality, and ???) and the members (by their agreement to follow them) before being implemented. And then once they have finished the above, the committee would be disbanded.

From what has been posted in the last few days, I also get the idea that it is preferred by everyone that this committee gets working to suggest changes asap. The problem then is, if you are first of all wanting to take nominations and a poll for committee members, you are going to get bogged down with it taking a lot of time just for that. Furthermore, from what a few are saying, just who is it, in the current climate of feeling, that you are going to trust to run the nominations and polling? :roll:

So far as I can tell, those who have already volunteered are a fairly diverse group...only 11 so far (when I began typing this, perhaps there are new posts since then), which doesnt sound like there are hoardes wanting to do the official work. Perhaps it would be helpful, Porshiepoo, if you posted who you have on your list so far? I cant remember myself all the names who have volunteered without running through the posts again and writing them down.

MadPict

11-Dec-06, 17:10

Not spoiling for a fight - and I think if you wish to check my post history I have remained on reasonable terms with most folk here. Even my old wind farm adversary Rheghead and I even in the heat of tilting at windmills retained a mutaual respect. I even stood behind saxovtr when he was posting about speeders in Watten. Not the actions of a hateful despicable Mod. Squidge and I have banged heads a couple of times but nothing we can't have a laugh about.

And I must have missed the bit in your previous post? So if your name gets included in the .OUGFC roster you'll of course refuse to serve due to not having any links to Caithness?

Elenna,
Sorry for seeming to take this off topic, but I am still a member of these forums and as such I am entitled to post helpful suggestions here for consideration. I am merely challenging some posts which IMO will do this thread no good at all.

squidge

11-Dec-06, 17:10

I shouted because you don't, or don't want to understand. The wy the User Group is selected is VERY important if it is to be trusted by the members. In the current climate moderators and Admin or barely trusted at all, mainly due to recent events, but also due to the manner of their selection ie, behind closed doors with no input from the membership.
If you want to avoid this situation arising again, then the selection has to be completely open and democratic.
That is very relevant to this thread, and I see no reason to 'take it somewhere else'.

Ok thats fair enough - in that context it appears fair comment.

Rheghead

11-Dec-06, 17:10

cuddlepop

11-Dec-06, 17:16

Thank you for that Elenna its good when someone takes the time to summarise and bring this thread together.:D
I think everything is becoming a little clearer and hopefully we will have democratically elected moderators which is all we really want.:roll:

golach

11-Dec-06, 17:16

Isn't that exactly what I said inmy post? Am I missing something here? Or is it just a case of you and Golach spoiling for another argument in the hopes of disrupting yet another thread?
I am not spoiling for anything, just curious why you of all people should suddenly become the spokesperson for Caithness.Org?
I would consider a lot better suited .orgers than you to be the spokesperson for me, remember I have .orger rights too

Dreadnought

11-Dec-06, 17:17

And I must have missed the bit in your previous post? So if your name gets included in the .OUGFC roster you'll of course refuse to serve due to not having any links to Caithness?

I do not wish to be part of the Users Group.

I am merely challenging some posts which IMO will do this thread no good at all.

Pot, kettle etc.

porshiepoo

11-Dec-06, 17:25

Oh for crying out loud! THAT IS NOT AN ACCUSATION!!! It is a statement of fact, there is a lot of bad feeling because the selection of moderators was not open and transparent. If the User Group is selected the same way then the same suspicions will eventually arise!

Is that so difficult to understand?

I think this is a bit different though.
Everyone interested has put their name forward in this thread and will probably continue to do so tonight. I'm only going to pick 12 from those names, I shan't add any that haven't expressed an interest.
Once we have the usergroup sorted we can then put the new mods to vote so that all forum members get to have a say.

So far the people shown an interest are:
Mr PCannop, Gogglebox, Weeboyagee, Weeburd, Ricco, Peedie, Elenna, JamieS, Squidge, Crashbandicoot, Calish6 and I believe Changilass meant that she would be interested.
Incidentally, I am neither related to or know personally any of these people.
I'll update the list of interested parties soon so that everyone can see exactly who is up for it.

It's going to be extremely hard if not impossible to please everyone on this subject.

Elenna

11-Dec-06, 17:25

Elenna,
Sorry for seeming to take this off topic, but I am still a member of these forums and as such I am entitled to post helpful suggestions here for consideration. I am merely challenging some posts which IMO will do this thread no good at all.

Its ok, Mad Pict. I dont type very fast, and I think I began just after post #52, and I suspected there would be people saying things while I was tapping away at the keyboard. :)

And I agree...Mods are certainly entitled to express opinions and make suggestions. They are people who are members here, too.

But what about the Usergroup Committe, then, folks? Do we go with those who have said they are willing to try to help out with this, or do you want to take nominations and vote?

Erm...or should we have a poll on that? ;)...sorry, couldnt resist!

EDIT: Thanks Porshiepoo. And you know what I would do if there are more than 12 names? Put them on slips of paper, and get your hubby or one of your kids to pull 12 out of a bowl. It will then be a fairly random selection of those who have said they would like to be involved helping on theis.

Saxo01

11-Dec-06, 17:28

It must have been a terrible shock to find yourself nominated without any prior knowledge Porshie, I would have thought there would be nominations for the team leader as well

Ricco

11-Dec-06, 17:28

Isn't that exactly what I said inmy post? Am I missing something here? Or is it just a case of you and Golach spoiling for another argument in the hopes of disrupting yet another thread?

Now, now Dreadnought. You don't seem to like it when others have an op[inion that differs from your own. Yesterday you were saying that I was missing the point? I think I have the point well in view - just not getting all het up about it, that's all. ;)

Dreadnought

11-Dec-06, 17:29

I think this is a bit different though.
Everyone interested has put their name forward in this thread and will probably continue to do so tonight. I'm only going to pick 12 from those names, I shan't add any that haven't expressed an interest.
Once we have the usergroup sorted we can then put the new mods to vote so that all forum members get to have a say.

So far the people shown an interest are:
Mr PCannop, Gogglebox, Weeboyagee, Weeburd, Ricco, Peedie, Elenna, JamieS, Squidge, Crashbandicoot, Calish6 and I believe Changilass meant that she would be interested.
Incidentally, I am neither related to or know personally any of these people.
I'll update the list of interested parties soon so that everyone can see exactly who is up for it.

It's going to be extremely hard if not impossible to please everyone on this subject.

No offence Porshiepoo, but in the light of recent events, and given that many of us now trust them as far as we could spit, do you think it is a good idea to have any moderators even remotely associated with the Users Group?

porshiepoo

11-Dec-06, 17:29

Add Golach to the interested parties list.

Elenna - seems we think along the same lines lol. I was in the middle of my last post referencing the interested people when you suggested doing the exact same thing. :)

angela5

11-Dec-06, 17:30

I think this is a bit different though.
Everyone interested has put their name forward in this thread and will probably continue to do so tonight. I'm only going to pick 12 from those names, I shan't add any that haven't expressed an interest.
Once we have the usergroup sorted we can then put the new mods to vote so that all forum members get to have a say.

So far the people shown an interest are:
Mr PCannop, Gogglebox, Weeboyagee, Weeburd, Ricco, Peedie, Elenna, JamieS, Squidge, Crashbandicoot, Calish6 and I believe Changilass meant that she would be interested.
Incidentally, I am neither related to or know personally any of these people.
I'll update the list of interested parties soon so that everyone can see exactly who is up for it.

It's going to be extremely hard if not impossible to please everyone on this subject.

If you recieve 20 or so more people showing an interest it would be very good if you could list everyone, then the 12 you have choosen and your reasons for picking them.

porshiepoo

11-Dec-06, 17:32

No offence Porshiepoo, but in the light of recent events, and given that many of us now trust them as far as we could spit, do you think it is a good idea to have any moderators even remotely associated with the Users Group?

I simply compiled a list of everyone that has shown an interest in joining the group.

Kaishowing

11-Dec-06, 17:33

I would also like to suggest that if any Mod wants to be part of this group they should resign from the Moderating team and then put their name forward.
Moderators are meant to be here to implement site policy, not make it.

Obvioulsy Moderators are users/members too, but in this instance there can be no accusations of rigging of any kind, and wearing both hats while participating in this proposed user group would be seen as too great a conflict of interests....especially when the members of this group will be connected to the election of new Mods.

Piglet

11-Dec-06, 17:34

But what about the Usergroup Committe, then, folks? Do we go with those who have said they are willing to try to help out with this, or do you want to take nominations and vote?

EDIT: Thanks Porshiepoo. And you know what I would do if there are more than 12 names? Put them on slips of paper, and get your hubby or one of your kids to pull 12 out of a bowl. It will then be a fairly random selection of those who have said they would like to be involved helping on theis.

Not sure would it be best to go with the first 12 nominations or have a deadline when everyone should have there names in by so then you can make a decision, Porshie

porshiepoo

11-Dec-06, 17:35

If you recieve 20 or so more people showing an interest it would be very good if you could list everyone, then the 12 you have choosen and your reasons for picking them.

As much as I agree thats a good idea, it opens the whole thing up to even more rampaging from people that aren't going to agree with my opinions as to why I chose someone.
Would it not just be safer to say that I have no hidden agenda with any of the people that have expressed an interest?
As I pointed out before I am not familiar with nor related to any of those on the list.
Of course I'm going to take a look at their user history etc etc and have already started to do so.

porshiepoo

11-Dec-06, 17:37

Not sure would it be best to go with the first 12 nominations or have a deadline when everyone should have there names in by so then you can make a decision, Porshie

I have to give everyone a chance to see this and offer their name otherwise it just wouldn't be fair so I'mat least going to leave it open tonight.
There are those people who cannot get onto the site until rather late and I don't want anyone to feel as though they werent given the opportunity to express an interest.

Elenna

11-Dec-06, 17:49

I would ask those who have a mistrust of moderators, or any other person, just what is it that you think they might, or could, do...in a committee setting, specifically set to review T&C, practices, and policy? It could be that their experience to date might be useful.

And for the record, I dont know, nor am I related, any of these other people, either. I have met one or two for the evening at org functions, but thats about it.

And thats funny, Porshiepoo, about us having the same thought. I actually edited my prior post to suggest that if you have more than 12 names, to put them on slips of paper and have your hubby or kids pull 12 out of a bowl. That way you have a fair and unbiased selection from those who have volunteered.

porshiepoo

11-Dec-06, 17:50

Right, heres how I propose we move on and have it clear exactly what we're hoping this particular thread will achieve.

We'll leave the thread open for an allotted time (At least overnight but I'm open to suggestions on this), after that time I'll pick 12 people from those that have expressed an interest to form the forum usergroup.
This group will then liase with the mods etc to go over the forum rules and regulations and the forum terms and conditions, revising as is deemed necessary.
We can also suggest any other changes, revisions etc that the forum members would like to see implemented, of which the idea of moderator rotation seems to be high on the list.

This user group will then put forward the names of all prospective new moderators as suggested by every member of the forum.
The choice of the new moderator will then be put a forum vote/poll.

I too am assuming that once the new moderators are in place and all forum members are happy that the usergroup will no longer be required.

We can be here forever and a day guys deciding what we should or shouldn't vote on, lets just get the ball rolling so that we can at least see an end to the division we've seen on here of late.

squidge

11-Dec-06, 17:52

You could take them with you on Friday night and those people at the "do" could select the required number.

I'm smarting at the "trust" comments but i'll get over it. :roll:

Elenna

11-Dec-06, 17:57

You could take them with you on Friday night and those people at the "do" could select the required number.

That also sounds like a fair possibility, and would have the advantage of being witnessed by a representation of members :)

porshiepoo

11-Dec-06, 17:58

Gosh it's sounding more and more like a lottery eh? lol.

I could even give each name a number, then send this name and numbered list to a mod we trust (so I can't be accused of cheating) and then the first 12 members to post a number are the 12 numbers that are used?
That way I haven't chosen them and it means we can do it quicker than waiting till Friday night.
Or I can get hubby to pull out names and you'll have to trust me,
Or I can pick 12 names from the list but they'll be people that I've at least researched ( Sorry for the word!)

Crumbs if it's this hard now at just usergroup stage what are we gonna do at moderator stage. :eek:

squidge

11-Dec-06, 18:00

I think that you can be trusted to pick 12 people to deal with it Porshiepoo. You arent a mod, you arent an admin and i would be happy that you would choose 12 people that you felt would work together for the good of the forum.

Just pick the 12 you want

JAWS

11-Dec-06, 18:02

If not knowing who people are seems to be a problem for certain people then I'm Jim Richardson and I stay in Mid Clyth.

For any problems I may or may not have caused from being classed as a Moderator I apologise.
That is by no means meant as a sop to certain people who do not like my style of posting, nor am I creeping in order to curry favour so as to remain a Mod.
I had been suggested (I have no idea who by nor does it matter to me) that I be asked if I would be willing to assist as a Moderator and agreed because I thought doing so might help with the smooth running of the Forums. This seems to have caused certain people problems, a fact for which I make no apologies.

If I have inadvertently caused others to believe that I have misused my position as a Mod to overstep the mark in some of my posts then to those members, and to them only, I apologise.

In fact, there are occasions when I have ignored certain comments aimed at me where, if they had been aimed at anyone else, I would have suggested some action should be considered.

On such occasions I have done nothing:-
1, because I refused to make any use of my position for what might have been perceived as having been for my own benefit or advantage.
2. because my posts on the Forums are there for all to see so that people can decide for themselves if I am acting unfairly and are able to comment on that at the time.

The Thread mentioned in the email I took no active part in quite simply because by the time I saw it the test had been tried out and ended.
As I result I refuse to apologise personally for something I was not involved in and I refuse, absolutely, to interfere by apologising or commenting on behalf of others because I have no right to do so. If some people think that is unacceptable then so be it, that is their decision.

As for the accusations that I have posted personal abuse towards certain members then I refute that completely. I may have refused to take certain posts seriously and have, on occasions “rubbished” them is a comment on the particular viewpoint in question. As far as I am concerned is definitely not an assault on the posters integrity, intelligence, personality or an attempt at character assassination. At no time have I made comment on any members character, ability or intelligence in any of my posts and would never so do despite the impression some wish to portray.

If anybody can present a posts where I done any of the above then if they post them on the Board for all to see then I will act in an appropriate manner, again for all to see.

As for the direct assaults on my personality and/or integrity all I can say is that the people who have done so are entitled to their opinion and I will make no attempt to disillusion them about that. They see what they wish to see, and that is not my concern.

If any of the above is considered by some or all to be arrogant, sarcastic or an attempted display to show superior intellect by some then so be it.

To those who want my head for their trophy cupboard then I will leave to others the decision as to whether they should have it or not.
One thing is certain, I will not be bullied into presenting it to them on a plate myself simply for their satisfaction.

And should anybody wish to accuse me of "spoiling for a fight" I can assure those willing to accept that differing views and debate is acceptable that nothing is further from my mind.

Dreadnought

11-Dec-06, 18:03

Or you could put up a poll, so the Users can choose the members of their Users Group. Any group chosen by, or involving moderators, willhave no credibility.

Kaishowing

11-Dec-06, 18:06

I'm smarting at the "trust" comments but i'll get over it. :roll:

Just wondering if you meant what I posted? If so then please re-read it. I have said nothing about lack of trust of the existing mods....rather removing the potential accusations of foul play down the line.
This whole process must be seen as whiter than white, or it's just storing up trouble for later on.

MadPict

11-Dec-06, 18:06

Or you could put up a poll, so the Users can choose the members of their Users Group. Any group chosen by, or involving moderators, willhave no credibility.

Once again - one step forward, two back......

changilass

11-Dec-06, 18:10

Porshie

If only to stop one member from wrecking the whole process with his prejudices can you take my name of the list.

Hopefully then he might have time to come up with some usefull ideas instead of stalling tactics

Thanks
Sue:D

Saxo01

11-Dec-06, 18:14

Or you could put up a poll, so the Users can choose the members of their Users Group. Any group chosen by, or involving moderators, willhave no credibility.

Id have thought a poll would be the fairest as the users can't grumble if they did the choosing & no more feeling of underhand tactics

Dreadnought

11-Dec-06, 18:15

Id have thought a poll would be the fairest as the users can't grumble if they did the choosing & no more feeling of underhand tactics

Exactly. :)

JAWS

11-Dec-06, 18:19

I will state now that I have no wish to become involved in the group as some would obviously use it to create more friction, trouble and problems and I have no wish to assist them in their endeavours to do that.

And people can make of that statement what they wish.

Piglet

11-Dec-06, 18:19

But if you are voting on the members of the users group this will take even longer for the ball to get rolling - if you are going to vote on everylittle thing.

Imo - i see nothing wrong with the suggestion Porshie has give for choosing them herself or for the numbers. then they are picked at random - no favouritism.

Elenna

11-Dec-06, 18:24

Is it actually possible to do a poll on here with, say, 20 selections, and each member is allowed 12 choices?

Dreadnought

11-Dec-06, 18:26

People nominating themselves, and one individual then choosing from those people, means that yet again the members of this forum are excluded from choosing the people who will be part of making decisions that will affect the whole forum.
That can only mean more problems in the future. :(

MadPict

11-Dec-06, 18:27

I'll just check poll options on my forum to see what there are.
An admin will have to set the fields for number of poll options to twelve or how every many you need. Multiple choice can be selected by the person posting the poll. You can even show who voted how if you wish complete transparency....

porshiepoo

11-Dec-06, 18:27

Is it actually possible to do a poll on here with, say, 20 selections, and each member is allowed 12 choices?

Who chooses the 20 selections though? Or do we put that to a vote too?

:lol:

Dreadnought

11-Dec-06, 18:28

Is it actually possible to do a poll on here with, say, 20 selections, and each member is allowed 12 choices?

It is possible on other vbulletin boards. Not only that, it is possible for the poll to be public, ie, you can see who voted for who, so the poll is completely transparent and there can be no accusations of 'rigging'.

_Ju_

11-Dec-06, 18:29

Ps, This is a thread about the selection of a Users Group, for User by Users. Why are these Mods here telling us what should and shouldn't be?

Because a moderator has this word written below their username they are no longer permited to have an opinion or view on this thread?

I do not think that there needs to be a clear-out of the current moderators. It is a job that compromised their participation in this forum. They gave their time for a particularly ungrateful task. They are human and just like everyone of us can have opinions that might not please greek and trojan and may even, because they are only human, express them in ways that might grate against other people's views.

Moderators have been vilefied in this whole story and even given Colin's and DrSzin's explanation and what seems e general acceptance of that explanation they are still being vilefied.

I like using this board. It has been a sort of electronic social network for someone who has been brutally transplanted here and does not have the option of going down to the pub to get to know people. At the same time, it's not the kind of place where I have ever felt uncomfortable because of the content or because of the ulterior motivation of it's users....it is a family and familial place that is so because of the moderation and rules it has always been subject to. The only difference in the last months is that instead of the owners of this space doing the moderation, they had delegated it to other people. It's difficult to argue with a pub owner deciding you should not be served more drink in his pub, but alot easier to try worm ones way around one of his employees. I think that is what happened a bit here maybe: a subtil resentment against subjecting ourselves to the authority of these new moderators that are/were users just as ourselves. From get go these moderators were questioned at every turn, even with the garantee that every decision they made would pass through admin. How easy do you all think it was to do that job under the circumstances?

The following is something I have been thinking about for quite a while. Everyone here knows that this forum is regulated and moderated. The moderators did not have to be identified with a badge under their name (even if we all knew who they were). They would carry on doing their mod things and their ordinary user things and no one would feel that the mod status was being used to throw things around or influence. But the milk is spilt and I am sure that some would feel that this system is a bit too much like secret police. Please remember, they were not paid nor are they perfect (nor should we expect them to be when we don't expect the same of ourselves), so this anonimity would afford them (mods) the privacy they needed to carry on enjoying the board without fingers being pointed at them. And any finger pointing, which would naturally ocurr, would be pointed at the "ever suffering" administrators who are, ultimately responsible for their board and it's content.

So, now I feel like I've lost the plot in this reply, so I will shut up to everyones relief, except to say: Thank you for your participation as moderators, even when it did take away from the reason you participated in this board as a user. It's easy to criticise when you haven't walked a mile in anothers shoes.(I'm full of cliche's today...pfffffffff)

Elenna

11-Dec-06, 18:32

Who chooses the 20 selections though? Or do we put that to a vote too?

:lol:

:D For clarity...I meant that the names of all those who had volunteered would be put as selections for voting on. 20 was an example number...there might be more or less than that.

changilass

11-Dec-06, 18:34

porshiepoo

11-Dec-06, 18:35

This is going to get us nowhere and fast!

I enjoy this forum........most of the time and I want to continue posting on here without having any inuendo thrown at me in the future.
So heres what I propose,
I stand down from making any choices whatsoever, anyone interested has already been listed on here so someone can open a thread encouraging everyone to vote for those people they trust.
Once that is out of the way then the next steps will be so much easier and at least everything is done with the knowledge of every member of the forum.:)

Does that sound fair?
I think all names have been listed of interested parties and i'd like mine to be added to the vote please.
I have to take my kids to sea cadets right now but I'll be back in tonight to see how it's all going and where we're at. :)

MadPict

11-Dec-06, 18:36

Thanks for that _Ju_......

rockchick

11-Dec-06, 18:39

_Ju_

11-Dec-06, 18:39

I would also like to suggest that if any Mod wants to be part of this group they should resign from the Moderating team and then put their name forward.

hmmm..... enforcement officers, politicians, police, judges, law writer's, and lawyers are not allowed to vote?

highlander

11-Dec-06, 18:39

I would like to put my name forward for the group, im not sure if i have to re-apply for the post of moderator in chat room, but having been a moderator in there since it was created i would like to be able to carry on with the job, if one good thing did come out of what happened at the weekend, it was great to see so many new names making use of the chat room.

sam

11-Dec-06, 18:48

Can I suggest a radical change of the way this site is moderated?

Make the moderators anonymous! Moderator1, Moderator2 etc.

This has two benefits:

(1) it takes the personal issue out of moderating, so that when users have issues, the solution focuses on the problem, not the person.

(2) those who are moderators will only wear their moderator "hat" when signed into the moderator account. They will have their own non-moderator user accounts for when they want to have opinions/voices of their own, and will be subject to the same rules/regulations as all the other users.

this is one of the most sensible ideas so far, i believe that the moderators should have been anonymous right from the start, it would of saved a lot of hassle and snide remarks about a clique, but to make them anonymous now they would have to start from the beginning and apoint new mods or re apoint old ones.
i also think it would be a good idea for anyone who has a problem to put it to admin for discussion with mods/groups/admin to resolve.

_Ju_

11-Dec-06, 18:58

A democratic system does not require votes to be public. I would infact say AU CONTRAIRE! What garantees you may vote as you wish without bowing to the current power people is the knowledge that your vote cannot be traced back to you.

This user group (of however many) will help define caitness.org.forums. They will , I am sure, be listening to everyone and collating those opinions into as coherent a system as possible. Because your name is or isn't on a list does not mean your opinion in a user group is excluded. This list will not be static either, so the importance of the type of election/selection is not huge. Just go ahead and choose the people you feel can work together, Porshiepoo. Then go ahead with un-enviable task of figuring out a rule system that will please everyone that uses this forum......

...... it doesn't exist by the way (except in pretend)! ;)

ice box

11-Dec-06, 19:07

Come on folks, we need more volunteers for the user group.

Calls are being made for a poll of who should be in this group, but if you don't volunteer you can have no cause to complain if it is run by those who do, no matter who they are.

Lets get this sorted sooner rather than later.:D

SueYes changilass we do need more people but why have the mods wanting in on our fun when it's because of them we are doing this typical .......a mod wants a cake and to eat it [disgust]

Piglet

11-Dec-06, 19:10

Yes changilass we do need more people but why have the mods wanting in on our fun when it's because of them we are doing this typical .......a mod wants a cake and to eat it [disgust]

It's not a them & us situation we are all here because we enjoy .org

ice box

11-Dec-06, 19:14

Porshie, now I have all this free time on my hands I would like to become a member of your group.What so you can upset some more people with your sarcastic remarks [disgust]

jamieS

11-Dec-06, 19:14

Yes changilass we do need more people but why have the mods wanting in on our fun when it's because of them we are doing this typical .......a mod wants a cake and to eat it [disgust]

With this kind of attitude we are not going to get anywhere. The current mods are still members of the .org and as such should be given their own voice as well.

changilass

11-Dec-06, 19:14

Yes changilass we do need more people but why have the mods wanting in on our fun when it's because of them we are doing this typical .......a mod wants a cake and to eat it [disgust]

If they are fresh cream cakes then definately:lol:

angela5

11-Dec-06, 19:15

It's not a them & us situation we are all here because we enjoy .org

It felt that it was a them/us situation reading the leaked e-mail.

Kaishowing

11-Dec-06, 19:15

....What garantees you may vote as you wish without bowing to the current power people is the knowledge that your vote cannot be traced back to you.

It's got to a poor state of affairs when even voter anonymity is suggested to be put aside because nobody trusts the result otherwise!

The sooner this 'fresh start' begins the better.

Piglet

11-Dec-06, 19:28

It felt that it was a them/us situation reading the leaked e-mail.

This usergroup is suppost to be a way forward not dragging up the past. Granted without the email things would not have been brought to light but we are all users of .org & are all here because we want things to get better & enjoy our time here.

ice box

11-Dec-06, 19:31

It's not a them & us situation we are all here because we enjoy .org
But lately a lot of people haven't been enjoying the org because of this situation.

Gogglebox

11-Dec-06, 19:32

We all need to get a grip here, trust Porshiepoo and leave her to get a group sorted out and get this thing underway if we keep throwing all sorts of blockades in her way we might as well log off and start doing other things

Its not a group of moderators its a group trying to find a way to improve the current state

Once there is a group in place i'm sure there will be nothing to stop other orgers making suggestion.

Let her get the thing going first before this becomes any more clouded

You'll be debating the merits of first past the post voting systems and what have you for years - - -Let her get on with it!

ice box

11-Dec-06, 19:33

I'm born and bred and still living in caithness as i have always done and i pay my own taxes

stick me down please porshie .

Dreadnought

11-Dec-06, 19:35

Its not a group of moderators its a group trying to find a way to improve the current state

And a fat lot of good that group will be if it ends up half full of the very people who caused the current situation. [disgust]

Oddquine

11-Dec-06, 19:35

Yes changilass we do need more people but why have the mods wanting in on our fun when it's because of them we are doing this typical .......a mod wants a cake and to eat it [disgust]

Have to say that this attitude and others like it simply prolongs the situation unnecessarily...this is not fun, it is deadly serious and it does no good in the bridge building process to assume that all mods are the same. After all, can any of us say, hand on heart, that we have never gossiped about and made fun of people behind closed doors?

Perhaps it would be better to say that the users group get together with the current mods, who, bear in mind are also users, to work out what needs to be worked out.

It seems only sensible to involve the current mods if only because they know the system, and have experience of the kind of posts which require moderation. None of we users think we ever post anything offensive.so it is going to be hard to imagine acceptable posts....while the current mods at least can give examples of what they would delete etc.

Personally, I don't have a clue as to what is against the T&Cs, bcause I only ever seem to come into a thread to find someone complaining about having a post removed or receiving an infarction.

I'm inclined to agree that moderators should have a separate account for when they are on moderating duty..and I don't feel they should participate in the General thread wearing Moderator's hat, except if required to do so.

If there is to be a rota, then it would be possible to share moderator log-ins..which would be useful if it was decided to have anonymous moderator accounts which would certainly ameliorate the personality clash tendency.............provided nobody names the numbers, so to speak.

Mr P Cannop

11-Dec-06, 19:36

would like to join the group

krieve

11-Dec-06, 19:50

Omg can no one remember why it has got to this in the first place and who was involved, yet most of you think that they should be in the group! [disgust]
This is just turning out to be one big joke, It got to this in the first place because certain mods got to pick and choose who they wanted in the "clique" and it's just going to happen again!!!
Nomination then a poll is the only fair way to go about this, If not it's just going to be the same as before domination by moderation![lol]

sam

11-Dec-06, 19:52

I agree that the only way to go is nomination and poll, after all if its for the users then surely the users should be the ones to get a say in who get's voted in, that way it would be non biased and more fair

connieb19

11-Dec-06, 19:59

With this kind of attitude we are not going to get anywhere. The current mods are still members of the .org and as such should be given their own voice as well.
Where was their voices over the last cople o days? :roll:

angela5

11-Dec-06, 20:01

jamieS

11-Dec-06, 20:04

Where was their voices over the last cople o days? :roll:

Connie, I was in the flashchat speaking with various members all weekend.

connieb19

11-Dec-06, 20:06

Connie, I was in the flashchat speaking with various members all weekend.
How long have you been a moderater?

jamieS

11-Dec-06, 20:07

i ain't a moderator.
But I there was a some mods and admin staff in there over the weekend.

angela5

11-Dec-06, 20:08

How long have you been a moderater?

Hmmmmm! that was just my thought exactly.[disgust]

connieb19

11-Dec-06, 20:11

i ain't a moderator.
Hmmm, 5posts, 4 within the last day and you're looking to be in the new group. sounds a bit suss to me. :confused

Through

11-Dec-06, 20:13

For what it's worth, my opinion is that Porshipoo should get some peace to sort out a framework and set up the group. We shouldn't be criticising something that hasn't had a chance to prove its worth yet.

We seem to be getting somewhere, it would be a shame for dug in heels to stop the progress and then we lose the boards. You never know, maybe we'll come out the end of this with everybody happy.

Piglet

11-Dec-06, 20:13

Hmmm, 5posts, 4 within the last day and you're looking to be in the new group. sounds a bit suss to me. :confused

Get a grip talk about suspicious minds he has been a member since July 2005.

connieb19

11-Dec-06, 20:16

looks to me like it's a case of some wannabe mods who missed out last time looking to squeeze in. Clean sweep is the best and most honest way forward, that's just my opinion though. :confused

connieb19

11-Dec-06, 20:18

Get a grip talk about suspicious minds he has been a member since July 2005.
I've got a firm grip thank you, I'm quite aware how many posts he has, that's why I said what I did. :roll: I'm entitled to my opinoin.

angela5

11-Dec-06, 20:21

Can you blame anyone? well blame the ones that are concerned about what they read in the leaked e-mail, which you clearly don't seem to be by telling someone "to get a grip"[disgust]

rockchick

11-Dec-06, 20:22

I'll volunteer to be part of the Usergroup.

Piglet

11-Dec-06, 20:23

I've got a firm grip thank you, I'm quite aware how many posts he has, that's why I said what I did. :roll: I'm entitled to my opinoin.

I didn't say you weren't entitled to an opinion i said you have a suspicious mind. Just because someone has started posting more today when usually they are in the flash chat talking to others you think there is something behind it.

connieb19

11-Dec-06, 20:24

I'll volunteer to be part of the Usergroup.Good on you Rockchick.

Piglet

11-Dec-06, 20:25

Can you blame anyone? well blame the ones that are concerned about what they read in the leaked e-mail, which you clearly don't seem to be by telling someone "to get a grip"[disgust]

As i have already said i'm not blaming anyone.

There is nothing to be suspitious about but then that's because i know who jamieS is.

angela5

11-Dec-06, 20:27

that's because i know who jamieS is.

AHHHHH!!! Friends, relations etc running for this group then.:roll:

Boozeburglar

11-Dec-06, 20:28

Could I nominate Jings00, Dreadnought, The Pepsi Challenge and Gleber2 for the usergroup, and myself.

I can't see any reason to limit the number from which to select the new Mods.

There is the perfect opportunity to make a fully democratic selection, after it is established who wishes to get involved.

Perhaps the final decision on this is to be left to the user group, forgive me as I have just come in and haven't had time to wade through all the posts!

;)

_Ju_

11-Dec-06, 20:29

And a fat lot of good that group will be if it ends up half full of the very people who caused the current situation. [disgust]

It takes two to tango...if you are going to take a "us vs. them" stance, then "they" did not tango alone.

Please stop looking back, while trying to walk forward. Either you'll walk the wrong way or just trip up on something.

Piglet

11-Dec-06, 20:30

No thanks i have no intention of running for this group.

connieb19

11-Dec-06, 20:32

Ok I'd like to nominate Rockchick, Gleber2, Pultneytooner (if he'll come back), Dreadnought, Tristan and Cedric. I know we have no say but hopefully they'll volunteer.

sam

11-Dec-06, 20:34

I would like to second your nominee's connie as i think they would make a darn good job of it:D

Arikara

11-Dec-06, 20:44

Id like to nominate connieb, angela5, krieve, icebox, dreadnought, kaishowing, and gleber2 and anyone else whos no in with the admins and mods!

weeboyagee

11-Dec-06, 20:44

I'm sorry folks but I think there is enough representation here to prove that the single handed selection from a group of volunteers is not going to be acceptable as a satisfactory outcome even though I have put my name forward. Given the nature of what is being discussed here and the fact that I have never seen so many orgers making their views known in such a manner in a long time (and some who normally don't take part in much at all) I think that the only effective outcome here will be one that satisfies the greater majority.

I have volunteered because I would like to think that my ideas and thoughts would go someway to enhancing the forum. From what I am reading here there should be a vote if this is possible. The volunteers need to be just that - be they nominees that have been requested to volunteer by persons who think they would be good contributors or be they volunteers like myself who would like to make a contribution to something they have been getting a lot of enjoyment out of.

I'm sorry porshiepoo but with the greatest of respect, I understand why you have said that you wish to be a volunteer but not the selector now and I truly believe that you have made the right decision.

What has happened has happened. We are not going to go forward by looking for someone to be flogged in public on the org. I have seen the email. Yes, it wasn't the most well thought way of testing a plug in to benefit the org but the way in which the opportunity prevailed to certain parties to use this information in the manner it was subsequently used was just as wreckless in my mind. I understand that offence has been caused and it is no surprise to me that those parties are offended. I am sure that if those who executed the actions in the first place had a second chance then they would gladly grab it with both hands. We have all acted in a thoughtless manner during our lives I am sure.

The angels of the org (and I am sure there are none) will be the devils some other time. We all need to take a step back, think a bit and get our heads round how to take this situation forward.

I have no preference for who is a mod and who is not - I have no axe to grind for or against any individual one of them - they do a thankless task and one that most of us would not be happy to undertake - and that includes me and until I try their shoes on I am not going to complain that they can't do the job without being a little thoughtless every now and then.

Some of the more offended may think that I am trying to get them to calm down and back off and I suppose in the scheme of things that maybe exactly what I am trying to do but I am honestly hoping that I am not coming across as being inconsiderate to how they have been made to feel.

This is a good site, a good forum and the only way to take it forward effectively and satisfactorily is to work it out - together - we are not all going to agree but if we all continue to disagree or take issue with all the variable solutions we will go nowhere.

WBG :cool:

Dreadnought

11-Dec-06, 20:46

Thankyou for the nominations folks, I appreciate your sentiments, however I do not think I would be a good choice as part of the Users Group. For these reasons:

1. I do not live in Caithness.
2. I am far from impartial.
3.I will not work with any current or former Moderators.
4. I will not work with antagonistic people like Golach, Jaws or MadPict.

There are far better people than me you could nominate. :)

Top of my list to nominate for the group would be Kaishowing, ConnieB19, Praetorian, Pultneytooner, Gleber2.

golach

11-Dec-06, 20:48

Id like to nominate connieb, angela5, krieve, icebox, dreadnought, kaishowing, and gleber2 and anyone else whos no in with the admins and mods!
Wow that is some clique, [lol]

Arikara

11-Dec-06, 20:49

Wow that is some clique, [lol]

Aye Golach youd know all about cliques eh!!!:Razz

Piglet

11-Dec-06, 20:49

This is a good site, a good forum and the only way to take it forward effectively and satisfactorily is to work it out - together - we are not all going to agree but if we all continue to disagree or take issue with all the variable solutions we will go nowhere.

WBG :cool:

Well said WBG

connieb19

11-Dec-06, 20:49

Wow that is some clique, [lol]
Do you want to join Golach, seeing as you're no wanted anywhere else. :lol:

angela5

11-Dec-06, 20:51

Arikara i don't want to be any part of this user group. I have more respect for Kingetter.

Dreadnought

11-Dec-06, 20:51

Wow that is some clique, [lol]

I'd tell you where to stick that comment, unfortunately Jaws' tongue is already wedged firmly up there.

golach

11-Dec-06, 20:52

Do you want to join Golach, seeing as you're no wanted anywhere else. :lol:
Your are too kind Connie, but I must refuse on moral grounds, but thank you for even considering me :)

Arikara

11-Dec-06, 20:52

Never got a chance to respond to your apology golach as squidge locked it. I was going to ask who are the whingers and moaners that you wouldnt apologise to..........Bah Humbug! Talking about yourself again were you? [lol]

Emms

11-Dec-06, 20:54

Weeboyagee you have made a very valid contribution with your post. I agree with everything you say and I, for one, would be happy to see you volunteer.

golach

11-Dec-06, 20:57

Weeboyagee you have made a very valid contribution with your post. I agree with everything you say and I, for one, would be happy to see you volunteer.
I would love WBG to assist Posrshie, even if his football allegiance is of the wrong colour [lol]

Boozeburglar

11-Dec-06, 20:57

Dreadnought, please reconsider.

Seeing as this is the internet, living in Caithness should not be a qualification for this at all.

You wouldn't have to work with the aforementioned mods, as with any sense they will not be selected as part of the group.

In fact, seeing as I am here discussing this let me state my opinion that it would be totally inappropriate for mods to be involved in a group that is to operate as part of the selection process for new mods, totally inappropriate.

You are not ordinary users of the .org.

Billy Boy

11-Dec-06, 21:08

well well everybody's falling for it, i bet admin are rubbing there hand's at this slanging match and who could blame them?
if the people of the org are going to form a usergroup, is a slanging match going to get us closer to getting any sort of usergroup together?
I think its impossible cos to many people are bickering and throwing insults rather that trying to find a solution and all that will happen is that admin will just take over and things will stay the same, which is what we are all supposed to be against.
so why dont we have a poll to nominate people for the group so that no one can be accused of makeing up a clique of their friends.
I know i for one will jack it in if this carries on, its worse than playground fighting atleast kids have an excuse they are supposed to be immature:roll:

Dreadnought

11-Dec-06, 21:13

I would like to nominate... Kingetter.

_Ju_

11-Dec-06, 21:15

I'd tell you where to stick that comment, unfortunately .......

Rude and crude. All us users deserve better than reading this post.

JAWS

11-Dec-06, 21:23

I'd tell you where to stick that comment, unfortunately Jaws' tongue is already wedged firmly up there.No Comment. Yet again I will leave that for others to judge.
I certainly have no intention of being drawn by such opinions.

Boozeburglar

11-Dec-06, 21:27

After what has happened, one would have hoped that this thread would be free of mods adding comments of any kind other than constructive.

Really is no end to it is there?

quality

11-Dec-06, 21:32

If a member of Acameron's stature is leaving the org, I think it's about time all you orger's got your act together and stopped bickering amongst yourselfs. Or the org will soon cease to be.

sam

11-Dec-06, 21:48

we all know the problem so why cant we work together to find the solution:confused

Rheghead

11-Dec-06, 21:49

Why can't we just elect replacements for acameron and golach and keep the existing system? I quite like the status quo.

weeboyagee

11-Dec-06, 21:57

OK, how many are for the status quo then, with replacements for acameron and golach? Apart from those who have made their thoughts fairly obvious in respect of this suggestion?

quality

11-Dec-06, 21:58

Piglet

11-Dec-06, 22:02

OK, how many are for the status quo then, with replacements for acameron and golach? Apart from those who have made their thoughts fairly obvious in respect of this suggestion?

I think the mods do a great job but i don't think anything that is suggested is going to please everyone but you can't please everyone all of the time.:roll:

Oddquine

11-Dec-06, 22:03

kaishowing,
Accountability seems to be part of this new drive - having one Mod account accessed by all blurs that principle.

"OK who posted blah blah blah using the Mod account?"

"Not me"
"Nor me"
"Weren't me either"

Someone in another thread, mentioned that they run a forum where their Mods are not allowed to partake in any conversation. Wow they must be very frustrated forum members!

The database would show which person was using which mod account on any post.

I think you are talking about my site re moderators...........I, myself have an admin account and a user one, because admin and moderators can only be reported to themselves, as I don't think it is fair to be exempt from the same rules as everyone else.

The moderators on hobby/interest forums can post, as can all moderators on any forum they do not moderate. The argumentative forums, which are separate, and liable to be contentious, report to admin, and not a moderator.

Having said that, I have no problem with any of the moderators on my site forgetting their responsibility when posting on any forum, because they are well aware that their job is to protect the forum from legal problems, protect the forum members from personal abuse and make the members happy to be there. And that means, in my book, no stirring, sarcasm or personal remarks from them.

golach

11-Dec-06, 22:04

Why can't we just elect replacements for acameron and golach and keep the existing system? I quite like the status quo.
Rheg mate I would love it if you became my doppleganger, go for it throw your hat in the ring, your better than any of the nominees so far

scorrie

11-Dec-06, 22:05

Why can't we just elect replacements for acameron and golach and keep the existing system? I quite like the status quo.

I don't think it's quite that simple Rheghead. Several people clearly have a problem with some of the other Moderators. I am not, for one minute recommending a clear out of Moderators. However, I feel it is sensible for a group trying to move the Org forward, not to contain exisiting/previous Moderators. Once a way forward is agreed, then, by all means, let previous Moderators put themselves forward for consideration. I realise that not enough names may be left under this proviso but perhaps more people would come forward and offer themselves to work within a group free of previous Mods and free of some of the ill-feeling that has surfaced these past few days.

We need to stop fighting and move forward quickly. I would recommend nominating users who have a reasonable history on the org and who have proved themselves to be fairly restrained posters. I would be happy for this group to then nominate potential Moderators from a list of volunteers and then let the Membership state if they have any objections and the reason/s for the objection. The group could then judge if sufficient, and reasonable, objection ruled out any potential Moderator. This seems easier to me that an election style adding up of votes. That is my tuppence worth, I hope that we can see this problem moving towards a solution and a board that is a better place to visit.

Dreadnought

11-Dec-06, 22:06

OK, how many are for the status quo then, with replacements for acameron and golach? Apart from those who have made their thoughts fairly obvious in respect of this suggestion?

That won't solve anything.

The proposed User Group is a very good idea. But it needs to be decided totally openly and democratically, by the ordinary members of the forum, with no interference from past or present moderators. Once that is decided things can move on.

scorrie

11-Dec-06, 22:08

Rheg mate I would love it if you became my doppleganger, go for it throw your hat in the ring, your better than any of the nominees so far

With statements like that, I think you should stay away from a group trying to move FORWARD.

Rheghead

11-Dec-06, 22:09

Rheg mate I would love it if you became my doppleganger, go for it throw your hat in the ring, your better than any of the nominees so far

I'm afraid if I did that then I'd be quite strict!:lol: .....but fair[para]

There was a saying in the cops which I went by, 'Gerrum Done!'

weeboyagee

11-Dec-06, 22:16

As I see it we are no further on than first thing this morning. Someone needs to take charge and clamp down on all this bickering and infighting before the org goes for good. Even if it means banning certain people for 2 weeks.
I take your point quality. I agree with you - it looks as though there are lots of pages here with no real progress.

I would be careful about dishing out bans - you may have people in mind, maybe not. Remember the way things are at the moment there are active folks making some strong representation and some inactive folks watching what is being said. Ban some of them and the inactive will take their place complaining about them being banned - the problem will not go away by doing that.

The only thing I could think of tonight was to lock all the threads of this vane, start a poll with two choices - status quo or changes recommended by a users group. If the vote is for the status quo then so be it. If not, then let the users group be volunteers and hold a subsequent vote for who will be in the group. Let them have a period of review and come up with their recommendations - PURELY recommendations, made by review and general representation from all members. Then let the way forward be taken from that. For the life of me I cannot see a different way forward without the number of satisfied orgers being greatly reduced.

Even then I believe there will still be the odd voice of dissent.

WBG :cool:

Coolio

11-Dec-06, 22:18

Rheg mate I would love it if you became my doppleganger, go for it throw your hat in the ring, your better than any of the nominees so far
Exactly how much knowledge do you have of any of the nominee's except gleber2, please explain better?
Seems to me that the best thing you could have done is stand down from the position you held as a moderator on this forum as you more and more come across as quite a vile, ill-natured man, god help rheghead if he became your doppelganger.

MadPict

11-Dec-06, 22:20

4. I will not work with antagonistic people like Golach, Jaws or MadPict.

You're the one being antagonistic.

For your info -

But it needs to be decided totally openly and democratically, by the ordinary members of the forum, with no interference from past or present moderators.

I was an ordinary member of these forums up until the 25th August this year - about 3 1/2 months I have been a Mod. I joined these forums back in 1999 or 2000. So almost 6 years of membership here and of that 3 months as a Mod. I think that I have as much right to say what goes on in this debate as anyone else. The fact I want nothing to do with any part of this group negates that. I am willing to help give advice if needed. But I will not be pushed away by you over this.

Coolio

11-Dec-06, 22:24

You're the one being antagonistic.

Originally Posted by golach http://forum.caithness.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?p=171248#post171248)
Rheg mate I would love it if you became my doppleganger, go for it throw your hat in the ring, your better than any of the nominees so far

Who's being antagonistic?

Fluff

11-Dec-06, 22:24

i would like to nominate JU, Highlander, Piglet, Rockchick, Scorrie and Weeboyagee

Of what i have read recently they are all impartial, fair and not trouble makers.

good luck.

Rheghead

11-Dec-06, 22:26

I take your point quality. I agree with you - it looks as though there are lots of pages here with no real progress.

I would be careful about dishing out bans - you may have people in mind, maybe not. Remember the way things are at the moment there are active folks making some strong representation and some inactive folks watching what is being said. Ban some of them and the inactive will take their place complaining about them being banned - the problem will not go away by doing that.

The only thing I could think of tonight was to lock all the threads of this vane, start a poll with two choices - status quo or changes recommended by a users group. If the vote is for the status quo then so be it. If not, then let the users group be volunteers and hold a subsequent vote for who will be in the group. Let them have a period of review and come up with their recommendations - PURELY recommendations, made by review and general representation from all members. Then let the way forward be taken from that. For the life of me I cannot see a different way forward without the number of satisfied orgers being greatly reduced.

Even then I believe there will still be the odd voice of dissent.

WBG :cool:

Here, here.

OK, for what it's worth, count me in on the User Group, I'd hate to see the site go into permanent meltdown.

quality

11-Dec-06, 22:33

I agree lock all threads now, before the whole thing becomes a total mess and we get total melt down.
Give it a couple of hours and start a new thread with a poll.

If it carries on like this then Admin will have no choice but to close it down because it is not being moderated properly.

teuchter

11-Dec-06, 22:34

I havent bothered annoying people with my tuppence worth for a while, so here goes.
This thread is supposed to be trying to find a positive way forward for a site that we all enjoy, otherwise why do we keep coming back, and why are we all so het up about the goings on of the last few days?
The only way any of us are ever going to be able to enjoy these boards in the future , is if we all take a deep breath, slow down and cut out the slanging match that is going on. There has probably been more punishable entries in these threads than in all the time that ive been reading these boards put together , and so far godmin and the present mods have let it go. This can surely only last so long. The people that cant agree now , probably will never be able to agree, and infighting will always go on. Mods are always going to be the baddies on any board, but if new mods are going to be coming in to replace some or all of the old mods , whos to say that you might not find yourselves on the same side of the fence, no matter which side that might be.
Good luck to those who are trying to find a solution to the present problems, you need it, and please can we all just try to call a truce until a peace plan can be found or at least set in motion.
If not my next phone call is to the U.N.

sam

11-Dec-06, 22:34

This is ridiculous, its getting absolutely nowhere, its like trying to see who can insult who the most.
Come on folks we're supposed to be adults here so why not try acting like it and get this sorted out once and for all and stop all the crap, there has been more than enough of it over the last few days.
All thats is going to be achieved here is people leaving.
You all wanted Golach's resignation you got it so come on move forward instead of going over old ground and going round in circles its petty and down right boring.
Lets put and end to this once and for all and get back to having a good time on the org.
whats happened to the Christmas spirit?
grow up and get it sorted out

highlander

11-Dec-06, 22:39

Totally agree with you there Sam, but i think porshiepoo had to go out tonight, hopefully when she comes back she can restore some order.

_Ju_

11-Dec-06, 22:47

That won't solve anything.

The proposed User Group is a very good idea. But it needs to be decided totally openly and democratically, by the ordinary members of the forum, with no interference from past or present moderators. Once that is decided things can move on.

Even most convicted criminals retain the right to vote.
You are seeking to exclude certain users from voting on something they have as much right to vote on as you do. Every moderator on here is foremost a user, just as you are. Are you sugesting that these people (who for the most part are/were esteemed posters and were choosen for moderators for just that) and in some kind of collusion to take over this website ( possibly followed by world domination)? Or maybe there are so many level headed people in here , who just want to move forward and enjoy their forum and the friendships that they have forged in here, that you cannot be sure that unless you exclude all mods, you might not be rid of them?

I want our forum back, with the usual debates, petty bickering, laughs and sighs, including all....ALL..... ALL.

webmannie

11-Dec-06, 22:47

Porshie,

Can I offer suggestions, gather the names before things go pear shape again, give a closing date/time for nominations and things can move forward.

Whilst things are being decided, if admin can create a topic for the group to discuss ideas (can it be made read only for everybody else?) and one other for the all the members to comment on the user groups thread, that way you can all work without somebody destroying your thread. (hope that makes sense?)

_Ju_

11-Dec-06, 22:49

ALL ;) :lol:

Piglet

11-Dec-06, 22:50

Kaishowing has started a poll for anyone that is interested.

http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?t=18896

Colin Manson

11-Dec-06, 22:52

I think my original post wasn't clear enough.

It was never my intention that Mods should be part of this group, they will be on the opposite side of the table and admin will listen to both sides. The idea being that the both sides can contribute to creating a system that works for the Mods (whoever may end up in that post) and that it satisfies the majority of the users.

Also this isn't the place to be discussing how the mod system should work, I appreciate the enthusiasm but at the moment we are just trying to create a group not solve every problem that we have, there will be a time to put your suggestions to the usergroup and they will present the ideas to us.

Also it's not acceptable to nominate a user, it's up to the individual to put themselves forward. Once everyone has had time to do that then the 12 can be picked however porshie likes.

She got the job after giving us such a hard time in the chat room, I mentioned the idea to several groups of users at different times in the chat room and all agreed that she would do a good job.

As can bee seen in this thread everyone posting different ideas and systems doesn't work very well, we all have different ideas and it's not possible to cover them properly in such a large and open format.

Ideas will be condensed and refined by the usergroup and then we can get together and discuss the merits of each idea.

In the end as Bill said it has to satisfy him and it'll need to work for myself and Niall, I don't think it'll be that hard to meet those criteria and be a great improvement for the users.

Tristan

11-Dec-06, 22:53

I have a few points to make so bear with me.

Point 1
I would ask everyone to take a deep breath and re-read the start of this thread. We are not being asked appoint moderators but to look at how to move this site forward.

Point 2
I think there are a few people here mods, ex-mods and users who have shown their true nature and they should not, as some of them have already suggested, become part of this steering group.

Point 3
I have had a few friendly debates and disagreements with members on this site and enjoyed them all.

I have had a minor run in with a mod or two (not as a mod but as an orger). I was able to settle in private with one of them, the other I reported and I understand the situation was dealt with. One problem with both situations is the moderator title does carry a certain authority as we have seen (or we would not be in this situation.)

This leads me to Point 4
I believe it was Rockchick who suggested anonymous moderators who could post as users with one account and moderate when needed with another. This would allow everyone the freedom to post and moderate as needed.
If there was a problem with moderation it could still be dealt with.

There is still the problem of how to find these moderators but there may be a way to work that out.

Just my 2 cents worth

weeboyagee

11-Dec-06, 22:54

Kaishowing has started the poll - lets see if we can get things taken forward now. At least after 10 pages we can try and get some vision.

Webmannie, porshiepoo relinquished the task you still think she has earlier today:

I stand down from making any choices whatsoever, anyone interested has already been listed on here so someone can open a thread encouraging everyone to vote for those people they trust.
Once that is out of the way then the next steps will be so much easier and at least everything is done with the knowledge of every member of the forum.

Does that sound fair?
I think all names have been listed of interested parties and i'd like mine to be added to the vote please.
I have to take my kids to sea cadets right now but I'll be back in tonight to see how it's all going and where we're at.
I dare say that she will be back on later and will catch up (she's only missed out on about 80 posts :roll:)

WBG :cool:

Dreadnought

11-Dec-06, 23:12

Ok, the list so far:

VOLUNTEERS:

Porshiepoo
Mr P Cannop
Ricco
Gogglebox
Weeboyagee
WeeBurd
Peedie
Elenna
JamieS
CrashBandicoot1979
Boozeburglar
IceBox
RockChick
Rheghead
Golach
Sam
Calish6
Squidge
Changilass
Highlander

The following have been NOMINATED by various posters. If they would like to volunteer and be included please speak up:

Jings00
The Pepsi Challenge
Gleber2
PultneyTooner
Tristan
Cedric
ConnieB19
Angela5
Krieve
Kaishowing
Kingetter
Ju
Piglet
Scorrie

Names in red please see:
It was never my intention that Mods should be part of this group

My apologies if I missed anyone out, the thread was long and winding!

weeboyagee

11-Dec-06, 23:14

It was never my intention that Mods should be part of this group, they will be on the opposite side of the table and admin will listen to both sides. The idea being that the both sides can contribute to creating a system that works for the Mods (whoever may end up in that post) and that it satisfies the majority of the users.
There are a LOT of posts on here that can't reconcile with what you're trying to do with the moderators. I know you have apologised and Dr Szin has done his best but there are a lot of members who still believe that following "that" email there is a "them and us" prevailing on the forum. I am "only" suggesting that keeping the mods apart in the above manner will inadvertently continue to antagonise the situation.

Also it's not acceptable to nominate a user, it's up to the individual to put themselves forward.
I agree - we need to have people who are "willing" to do the job.

Once everyone has had time to do that then the 12 can be picked however porshie likes.
Porshie relinquished the task on page 6 of this thread.

She got the job after giving us such a hard time in the chat room, I mentioned the idea to several groups of users at different times in the chat room and all agreed that she would do a good job.
Since porshie came on right at the start with her obvious surprise that she hadn't been informed of the actions you mention here Colin, I think that some of the posts have referred to this as an action that rests uncomfortably with a few members. There are a lot of opinions held by a lot of members and is it really fair to appoint the person who you state gives you "such a hard time" the job of leading the task in hand? Is that really the way that we need to conduct ourselves to bring a point requiring attention to a head? I think you may be creating a headache for yourself here. And please accept that I have every respect for porshie - crikey, I can be as loud as the rest on here when the need arises!

Ideas will be condensed and refined by the usergroup and then we can get together and discuss the merits of each idea.
So long as you can get a user group that the majority, and given the pretty serious nature of what's been going on, that needs to be a "greater" majority, are happy with the way that the user group gets created and given pages 7-10 of the thread that is not going to be as easy a task as may be thought.

In the end as Bill said it has to satisfy him and it'll need to work for myself and Niall, I don't think it'll be that hard to meet those criteria and be a great improvement for the users.
I agree, I have a great admiration for the job you guys are doing, I think on this one we need to be seriously careful that we get the right result or we will have the same or worse situation facing us all further down the road and the current efforts will all have been in vain.

Piglet

11-Dec-06, 23:16

Thanks Dreadnought for putting that all in one post.

calish6

11-Dec-06, 23:18

Hi Dreadnought, bang my name down on that list.
Something needs to be done soon.

Rheghead

11-Dec-06, 23:19

My apologies if I missed anyone out, the thread was long and winding!

Yeah you did forget someone, I'm sure someone nominated yourself!

Colin Manson

11-Dec-06, 23:24

highlander

11-Dec-06, 23:25

Very sorry for putting my name down for this group, as i was a moderator for only the chat room, and not the other boards i thought i would have been allowed, but good luck in sorting things out, long live caithness.org

_Ju_

11-Dec-06, 23:25

These things are cyclical. Some cycles worse than others.... this cycle is more like fission than ebulition:

http://forum.caithness.org/showthread.php?t=13248

PS: Dreadnought, please correct the spelling of Golach's name....wouldn't want anyone to think you are petty, would you?

sam

11-Dec-06, 23:25

ok put my name forward for nomination

Dreadnought

11-Dec-06, 23:30

I also said you can't nominate people it has to be there choice to be involved so I've removed that list.

Why can we not nominate people? Surely that is just as fair, if not fairer than all volunteers?

Ju. I have corrected the typo. An easy mistake to make on a laptop keyboard. :roll:

ice box

11-Dec-06, 23:30

Ok, the list so far:

VOLUNTEERS:

Porshiepoo
Mr P Cannop
Ricco
Gogglebox
Weeboyagee
WeeBurd
Peedie
Elenna
JamieS
CrashBandicoot1979
Boozeburglar
IceBox
RockChick
Rheghead
Golach
Sam
Calish6
Squidge
Changilass
Highlander

The following have been NOMINATED by various posters. If they would like to volunteer and be included please speak up:

Jings00
The Pepsi Challenge
Gleber2
PultneyTooner
Tristan
Cedric
ConnieB19
Angela5
Krieve
Kaishowing
Kingetter
Ju
Piglet
Scorrie

Names in red please see:

My apologies if I missed anyone out, the thread was long and winding!
think you are missing one Willowbankbear it wouldn't be the same without him but looks like i'm too late .:~(

Colin Manson

11-Dec-06, 23:33

There are a LOT of posts on here that can't reconcile with what you're trying to do with the moderators. I know you have apologised and Dr Szin has done his best but there are a lot of members who still believe that following "that" email there is a "them and us" prevailing on the forum. I am "only" suggesting that keeping the mods apart in the above manner will inadvertently continue to antagonise the situation.

They are not apart, they are the only people that have experience in becoming moderators, they are merely there to provide input from that point of view.

Porshie relinquished the task on page 6 of this thread.

Since porshie came on right at the start with her obvious surprise that she hadn't been informed of the actions you mention here Colin, I think that some of the posts have referred to this as an action that rests uncomfortably with a few members. There are a lot of opinions held by a lot of members and is it really fair to appoint the person who you state gives you "such a hard time" the job of leading the task in hand? Is that really the way that we need to conduct ourselves to bring a point requiring attention to a head? I think you may be creating a headache for yourself here. And please accept that I have every respect for porshie - crikey, I can be as loud as the rest on here when the need arises!

I thought she would do a good job because she isn't afraid to voice her opinions yet she is reasonable enough to understand that some solutions etc aren't possible. I though in that respect that she would be accepted as credible because everyone knows that she isn't going take any nonsense, I don't mind dealing with a person like that, I have no intention of picking someone that would take it easy on me.

So long as you can get a user group that the majority, and given the pretty serious nature of what's been going on, that needs to be a "greater" majority, are happy with the way that the user group gets created and given pages 7-10 of the thread that is not going to be as easy a task as may be thought.

Nothing really worth doing is easy. :)

I agree, I have a great admiration for the job you guys are doing, I think on this one we need to be seriously careful that we get the right result or we will have the same or worse situation facing us all further down the road and the current efforts will all have been in vain.

Agreed.

Dreadnought

11-Dec-06, 23:34

Thats a point, is there anyone on a temporary ban at the moment who would volunteer?

connieb19

11-Dec-06, 23:36

Thats a point, is there anyone on a temporary ban at the moment who would volunteer?
I bet saxovtr would be up for it. I rekon he'd be pretty fair.

Colin Manson

11-Dec-06, 23:38

Why can we not nominate people? Surely that is just as fair, if not fairer than all volunteers?

It isn't fair to nominate someone that may not be interested in doing the job, if they volunteer first and you want to go through the nominate, first and second route then that's entirely different.

Just because you want someone to take on a task doesn't mean that they are the slightest bit interested in doing that task, on the other hand anyone is free to volunteer for it so why should they need nominated?

connieb19

11-Dec-06, 23:38

Thats a point, is there anyone on a temporary ban at the moment who would volunteer?
Don't know what happened to DW but I would definitely like to see him nominated.

connieb19

11-Dec-06, 23:41

It isn't fair to nominate someone that may not be interested in doing the job, if they volunteer first and you want to go through the nominate, first and second route then that's entirely different.

Just because you want someone to take on a task doesn't mean that they are the slightest bit interested in doing that task, on the other hand anyone is free to volunteer for it so why should they need nominated?I think dreadnought right, there might be some who feel as if it's a bit bold to nominate thmselves but would be happy to do it if they knew other people would like them to.

highlander

11-Dec-06, 23:44

Dreadnought for someone who said they would like caithnessian people to be in this new group, you seem to have plenty of say how this should be run.

changilass

11-Dec-06, 23:44

Dreadnought please go back and edit you lists, I had already taken myself of the list before it was said about mods not being included

Tristan

11-Dec-06, 23:45

Don't know what happened to DW but I would definitely like to see him nominated.

I always liked his posts too.

I think dreadnought right, there might be some who feel as if it's a bit bold to nominate thmselves but would be happy to do it if they knew other people would like them to.

It would be a lot to keep track of nominations and volunteers. I guess if you wanted someone you could always PM them and get the ball rolling that way.

Dreadnought

11-Dec-06, 23:46

Dreadnought for someone who said they would like caithnessian people to be in this new group, you seem to have plenty of say how this should be run.

I just think it should be fair and open. Do you disagree?

porshiepoo

11-Dec-06, 23:51

O.M.G, what the heck has been going on? Lunatics are running riot with just a hand full of us trying to keep up and put the strait jackets back on. :lol:

Yes Dreadnought on page 6 I stood down from the the heinous task in hand and now I'm going to say exactly what I think.

First of all, all due respect to you Dreadnought, you're ummmmm ..enthused? but reading back it's been quite clear that from the very beginning you have wanted what I can only assume you think is a position of power in deciding the way forward. You just don't stop until you get your own way and I have no doubt whatsoever that had it come to the point of me choosing 12 people that you would have reigned anarchy on another thread until you had incited enough anger to get the whole process reversed and started up to your liking. Well, you're most welcome to take over and get the ball rolling, however I have a suspision that the ball will be rolling in the direction of your choice as opposed to the other forum members that you so often speak of.

This thread has turned into an embarrasment to this forum.
There are a handful of us that genuinely want to see this work and have offered to do whatever we can to get it going that way but certain people appear to be goading and goading until the end result is that people drop off the volunteer list bit by bit.
Thats fair enough, we shall see the outcome of the voting in a couple of days eh? assuming of course we've finalised what we're actually voting for.

This thread which was started to get the ball of recovery rolling (at our request no less) has just been an excuse for some people to bicker, insult and throw their weight around, whilst demanding nothing but their opinion will suffice.

Someone mentioned my suprise at being given this task - yes, I was honest enough to say that I was suprised, I hadn't asked for the thankless task but I was willing to spend my spare time helping with this as I'd like to see the forum move forward. I've since been told that a few people put my name forward in the chat room to lead the usergroup but as I wasn't there this was why I showed my suprise.

This initial usergroup IS NOT a vote for moderators, there is no power involved, it's a group that will speak for the people of the forum and no matter what you say, a vote for these members IS going to result in friends, family etc being voted in.
We'll just be moving from one group of mods that we're convinced are all related and know each other, to another usergroup where pwoplw are going to say the same.
There will be no pleasing everyone.

So, I hope for the sake of this forum and for the sake of those of us that actually want peace restored that someone manages to do something ... and quick before we lose the forum. Or is that what is wanted here? Cos it sure blinkin looks like it.
[evil]

Praetorian

11-Dec-06, 23:53

I think I should throw my hat into the ring - I have been a moderator for a few forums mostly techno stuff satellites etc so the language etc has been a lot more colourful than the stuff on here. I don't have many posts because I only post when I feel the need but I did enjoy some of the threads.

Rheghead

11-Dec-06, 23:55

Don't know what happened to DW but I would definitely like to see him nominated.

In that case, I nominate Mickeymonk! [lol]

highlander

11-Dec-06, 23:57

Fair and open im all for, because i will speak for the masses, its caithness.org message board we care for, we dont want to lose this site, because once its gone its GONE! some people may have other sites they can go and chat on, or message people on, i myself have been here for over 6 yrs, and have made many friends, people i have never met, and those i have have bonded a great friendship, im not alone when i say this, because many will agree with me here, in each and every way, this site has meant something to them, why spoil something that we have, the numbers who use this site speaks for its-self.

jamieS

11-Dec-06, 23:57

connieb19

11-Dec-06, 23:57

In that case, I nominate Mickeymonk! [lol]
There was no sarcasm intended when I said I'd nominate DW. I enjoyed his posts and I'm sure I'm not the only one. :roll:

golach

11-Dec-06, 23:57

Porshie I am too afraid to say I agree with you or dreadnought will say nasty things about you as he did Jaws

changilass

11-Dec-06, 23:58

Very well said Porshie, c'mon guys lets pull together and get this thig sorted

Emms

11-Dec-06, 23:59

Porshie, I agree with you 100%. Well done for calling a spade a spade and for speaking up.

sam

12-Dec-06, 00:01

the way things are going the only thing that is going to happen is that we will lose the forum, why cant anyone take it seriously[disgust]

Dreadnought

12-Dec-06, 00:03

golach

12-Dec-06, 00:06

Dreadnought Who elected you the spokesman? not I

Foxy

12-Dec-06, 00:07

Well said Porshie. The way things are going around here there won't be a forum to bicker about. :(

connieb19

12-Dec-06, 00:08

Dreadnought Who elected you the spokesman? not I
Probably the members, quite a few of them actually. Who elected porshiepoo?

Dreadnought

12-Dec-06, 00:08

highlander

12-Dec-06, 00:10

Well said porshiepoo, if everyone had you sensible cap on we would be rolling again, now lets get down to the job in hand. Hope you can come up with some sensible ideas, and go forwardddddddd.

Rheghead

12-Dec-06, 00:14

Come on Connie, volunteer for the group, you seem to have some good ideas!:)

Oddquine

12-Dec-06, 00:16

porshiepoo

12-Dec-06, 00:18

Erm... Porshiepoo, I quite clearly stated I did not want to be part of the group... how is that power hungry?

I also stated that all I would like to see is a fair and open selection of the group members, by the members of the forum, rather than by ONE PERSON, again, how is that power hungry?
BTW, I am not the only person who has made that point, however, I seem to be the only one being used as a scapegoat for yours and Admins objection to a fair and open selection process.

You may have said you don't want to be a member of the usergroup but you most certainly want everything run your way.
Whilst most people are answering the comments of others in a fair and just way and maybe offering up more suggestions, all you appear to do is make the same comment over and over and over and over.....
Basically you want a vote and you'll not stop badgering and moaning till thats what you get. Yes, others have expressed an opinion saying they'd also like a vote but they also give the impression they want to move forward regardless and at least make steps to progress.
You however don't. You want it your way and no other way will do.

How is you selecting the twelve (or however many) members of the User Group, on your own, out of sight of the rest of the members, going to result in anything that will not be questioned? All forwarded names, in an open poll on the forums would prove there is nothing to hide, and there could be no objections to the final selection.

I never said it wouldn't be questioned, of course it would be just the same as a vote will be.
People on here WILL be voting for friends and family etc, all I was trying to say is that I had no friends or family members on the list of those interested so any choice I made would be going solely on their conduct while they've been here (for however long or short that had been)

It's one constant gripe after another. Do we include current mods? Shall we vote on that. How many posts should they have made? Shall we vote on that. does Dreadnought approve of them? I don't know lets ask him!!!!

This is only for a user group. the mods is a completely different scenario. Obviously everyone needs to vote openly for that.

Seems like good common sense to me. Of course if you want people to carry on questioning, then go and make the selections in private.

They're gonna question anyway and frankly I'll not put myself up as a sacrificial lamb for anyone to have an excuse to moan and gripe about and create more discord in another thread.

Lets just sit back and see what all this moaning and bitching has actually achieved. Sadly I think the whole usergroup thing will be a moo point as ther'll be no forum to need one.
But hey, what do I know!

Coolio

12-Dec-06, 00:20

I'd like to see cedric nominated as he is one of the most impartial guys I know.
Come back cedric, we all want you here mate, the org aint the same without you.

Oddquine

12-Dec-06, 00:21

Probably the members, quite a few of them actually. Who elected porshiepoo?

The person who runs the forum?

He is entitled to SOME say, surely.

Whether we like it or not, we are guests on the forum, not the owners or admin.

We are entitled to some respect and even some input.....but the input is at the discretion of the administrators, and it is not for us to perpetually demand a bigger say than they have.

Coolio

12-Dec-06, 00:25

The person who runs the forum?

He is entitled to SOME say, surely.

Whether we like it or not, we are guests on the forum, not the owners or admin.

We are entitled to some respect and even some input.....but the input is at the discretion of the administrators, and it is not for us to perpetually demand a bigger say than they have.
Sory oddquine but this has long ceased to be a private website, it is a community website with advertisements which we sometimes click on and generate income for this website which gives us a bigger say than you credit.

Dreadnought

12-Dec-06, 00:25

They're gonna question anyway and frankly I'll not put myself up as a sacrificial lamb for anyone to have an excuse to moan and gripe about and create more discord in another thread.

Lets just sit back and see what all this moaning and bitching has actually achieved. Sadly I think the whole usergroup thing will be a moo point as ther'll be no forum to need one.
But hey, what do I know!

Regarding whether Mods should be included, Colin has said he did not intend for moderators to be any part of the User Group So that point has been settled. All that remains is the selection method. All most of us want is a fair and open method that will carry no fallout.

connieb19

12-Dec-06, 00:27

The person who runs the forum?

He is entitled to SOME say, surely.

Whether we like it or not, we are guests on the forum, not the owners or admin.

We are entitled to some respect and even some input.....but the input is at the discretion of the administrators, and it is not for us to perpetually demand a bigger say than they have.
I have nothing against Porhiepoo trying to organise things, she's probably the best person for it but surely Dreadnought is entitled to his opinions too considering he is speaking for a quite a few people. I want to see this thing resolved too, as soon as possible but not in a way where it's only ging to create more of a them and us atmosphere.